U.S. Phenomenon with Mario Magaña
Welcome to "U.S. Phenomenon" with Mario Magaña, a riveting podcast that dives deep into the unexplained and the extraordinary. Join Mario, the host as he explores the most intriguing paranormal events, alien encounters, and mysterious sightings across the United States. With his unique blend of real-life experience and passion for the unexplained, Mario brings you thrilling stories and expert insights in every episode. Whether it's alien abductions, ghostly apparitions, or cryptozoological creatures, Mario's engaging storytelling will captivate and keep you on the edge of your seat. Tune in to "U.S. Phenomenon" and embark on a journey into the unknown that will have you questioning everything you thought you knew.
U.S. Phenomenon with Mario Magaña
Shadows of Power: Bill Cooper's Legacy in Trump's America
The echoes of William Cooper's conspiracy theories from decades past find startling resonance in our current political landscape. Mark Jacobson, author of "Pale Horse Rider," returns to US Phenomenon for a riveting conversation about how the invisible government Cooper warned about has evolved into something far more overt and troubling.
From ICE agents in masks conducting raids without showing badges to the increased normalization of authoritarian leadership worldwide, we're witnessing a transformation in how power operates - no longer hiding in shadows but exercising control openly. Jacobson offers the provocative insight that "Cooper was fundamentally correct, but his details were a little bizarre," highlighting how the core concerns about constitutional erosion have manifested in unexpected ways.
The discussion explores a fascinating inversion of Cooper's worldview: where he believed truth was hidden behind closed doors, today's challenge involves overwhelming visibility coupled with diminishing trust. "Seeing ain't believing anymore," Jacobson notes, explaining how digital manipulation has created an environment where conspiracy thinking flourishes despite - or because of - information overload. This shift particularly impacts younger generations navigating a world of constant connectivity, economic pressure, and inherited political division.
Throughout this wide-ranging conversation, the Constitution emerges as a crucial touchstone - the foundation that requires defending regardless of political affiliation. As Benjamin Franklin warned, we have "a republic, if you can keep it." Jacobson and host Mario Magana consider what it means to protect these principles in an increasingly polarized era, offering thoughtful perspectives on maintaining civil dialogue across divides. Whether you're fascinated by conspiracy culture, concerned about democratic institutions, or simply seeking understanding in complicated times, this episode provides vital context for making sense of America's current crossroads.
What happens when the jackboot thugs Cooper warned about operate in broad daylight? Listen now to explore this question and many more with one of the leading chroniclers of America's conspiracy landscape.
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Welcome to US Phenomenon, where possibilities are endless. Put down those same old headlines. It's time to expand your mind and question what if? From paranormal activity to UFOs, bigfoot sightings and unsolved mysteries, this is US Phenomenon?
Speaker 2:From the Pacific Northwest, in the shadow of the 1962 World's Fair, the Space Needle. Good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you are on God's green Earth, from the Pacific Northwest, in the shadow of the 1962 World's Fair, the Space Needle. Good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you are on God's green earth, if it's still green, for wherever you may be, good evening. Welcome to US Phenomenon. I'm your host, mario Magana.
Speaker 2:Tonight we welcome back a longtime contributor. He's a journalist who's ventured deep into the heart of America's paranoia, mark Jacobson, author of Pale Horse Rider, william Cooper, the Rise of Conspiracy and the Fall of Trust in America. Believe me, that could be so true right now. With a career spanning decades, by lines in the New York Magazine, jacobson has chronicled everything from hip-hop legends and we'll talk about one tonight to Holocaust artifacts. But in Pale Horse Rider he turns his lens on one of the most influential and controversial figures in conspiracy culture, milton William Cooper. Cooper's book Behold the Pale Horse became a cult classic, especially in the prison libraries, and helped shape the modern day conspiracy landscape, from UFOs to government mind control. It is my pleasure to welcome back to US Phenomenon Mark Jacobson. Welcome back to the show, sir.
Speaker 3:Hey Mario, how are you? You know? I'm always glad to be here.
Speaker 2:I'm just a side of perfect, and one of our good telecom guys would always say I'm like, how are you doing? He would always say, just a side of perfect. So I would say that that's what I am right now. With everything that's been going on the last couple of weeks you know the diddy trial, uh, this alcatraz, uh, alligator alcatraz I figured I'd come to the guy who had spent a lot of time and I know that there is probably, I know there is a cult following with this whole, you know william cooper stuff. But with everything that's been going on, I wanted to, at least, before we get into this alcatraz thing, um, alligator alcatraz, and what people, some people are considering that kind of a concentration, a modern day concentration camp.
Speaker 2:I want to go back in time just a few weeks ago, to the diddy trial. Um, I know that there was all. There was a lot of speculation. What was the east coast vibe on that? What? What was? I mean, I know there was people on the streets flinging, you know, but what was the consensus, uh, from the east coast? Uh, side of things?
Speaker 3:well, I mean, I mean puff daddy or sean coombs or whatever you want to call him, um, he's never been the most popular rapper around. I mean, he's just not that popular, he um. You know, I don't think anybody was particularly surprised when the crime, when the crime, when the charges came up right. But uh, the idea that the feds, you know when, the idea that the feds, you know when the feds, the feds are really slipping, I think really, I mean, there used to be a time when the federal government wouldn't bring a trial unless there were 100% chance that they were going to win. They wouldn't do it, you know. And now they're losing all the time. I don't know why that is, but you know, I mean talk about overcharging, I mean you know, is he really a RICO candidate?
Speaker 3:I mean, you know, like John Gotti's a RICO candidate? I mean these kind of people you can't. I mean they've had so much success with that kind of racketeering thing that they just think it's appropriate for everybody and it just wasn't going to work, you know. I mean they got him on these other charges and Mr Coombs is going to be. There are over 100 civil suits that are pending, so he's going to be a busy guy. You know he's not getting off, you know that kind of stuff. But the idea that they're going to send him to jail for the rest of his life, you know, I don't know how old he is Maybe he's going to go to jail for the rest of his life, even if he's only convicted on these lesser charges.
Speaker 3:But it's hard to tell. So I tell you, you know, um, there was a lot of press about it in the beginning and then people I knew that were actually covering it their papers pulled them off it because it wasn't getting the clicks. People weren't that interested, which is sort of surprising to me. You know, it wasn't that interesting so.
Speaker 2:So you know we, when we talk about a lot of these other past cases, obviously no, not made for tv, like the oj trial, where everyone was glued to the tv 24 7 just watching the, you know the case itself, the, you know I guess oj oj was like a big, massive figure.
Speaker 3:I mean he was a football player. He's on tv commercials and he's in those naked gun movies. I mean sean diddy combs, I mean for the most, most people. I mean I hate to break it to you, but I mean most people really can't tell the difference between jay-z and sean coombs. I mean they really don't know. You know, it's it's, it's he's huge.
Speaker 2:I understand that, but it's, he's not that huge I mean, and especially for someone like yourself who's been, uh, you know, someone who has had many encounters with very legendary rappers, um, yeah, I mean, he never really the thing about him, is he never?
Speaker 3:he never really rapped. He was.
Speaker 3:You know, he was like take that, yeah, he rarely ever made, he really ever committed his voice to, to a recording. I mean, he's just sort of there running the show and um, so he wasn't beloved in any way shape in the way that you know any number of rappers really are, you know. But, um, so you know that that video of him kicking his girlfriend in the hallway, I mean, you know, it's just sort of like this guy's a piece of dirt so let's just not even think about him much. Oj, oj, he's a beloved figure. I mean, I covered the El Chapo trial in New York in the Brooklyn Eastern District, and that was a huge deal in the Brooklyn Eastern District and that was a huge deal. I mean, there was press there every day, but it had more legs than this thing. In a way, this was like an inch. It was like about an inch thick, you know.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:It wasn't really about anything, except that this guy was. I mean it was kind of creepy. But you can watch Eyes Wide Shut and watch kind of creepy sex stuff, you know Right. But you know it just wasn't. It didn't have the juice of a kind of like you know, a mafia trial. I mean I'm going back time but I mean you know, like when Gotti or these kind of people were on trial, I mean there were all kinds of everybody was interested in it. This was only interesting to some people.
Speaker 2:Very small group.
Speaker 3:Well, it wasn't small, but it wasn't big.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean think of someone like myself who I have a picture with Diddy from years ago from the radio station that I worked at, the Top 40 CHR rhythmic station here in Seattle. What was interesting was I never was a huge Diddy fan. I thought he was a complete, just jerk. When we met him in person, he wasn't nice to any of the staff, not nice, he's not nice.
Speaker 3:I mean, I did a story about Charlemagne you know Charlemagne the God, met him in person. He wasn't nice to any of the staff. Nice, you're not nice. I mean I did this, I did a story about charlemagne. You know charlemagne the god? Yeah, and I met every. I would just went to his show every day for a couple of weeks yeah and they brought in every single one of these guys who was, like you know, a big shot because, the breakfast. The breakfast club was a big deal at the time, sure and still is I guess.
Speaker 3:but and they were all nice except him. They were all nice except him. They were all nice. I mean like 2 Chainz nice guy, man, right, right, I mean all these people like you know, they're all nice. I mean I know he's got a bigger name than some of these people.
Speaker 3:But you know, he just wasn't somebody you really wanted to spend much time with you know You're referring to Charlamagne Tha God and not Diddy, right, I never interviewed diddy, but I mean charlamagne had all these guys on a show. Charlamagne's a sweet guy. I mean you know most of these people are nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, most of them. Yeah, he just interesting my, my interactions I mean, he was nice biggie was nice, tupac was nice.
Speaker 3:I mean they're all nice, but this guy was not nice yeah, what an interesting.
Speaker 2:Uh. I mean, someone asked him like oh, he's, you know. When he said the other day in court I'm going home, I was like no, not with. When you say something like that, they're going to definitely keep you for that arrogant type of comment. I just didn't see that the, the, they were going to let him walk out of the, the, the federal well, you beat, you beat the big charges, but sure that's on the, that's on the prosecutors.
Speaker 3:You can't charge something and and hope the jury's going to believe your case if you really you know they just weren't going to buy that. I mean, I don't know, you know it.
Speaker 2:Just it just didn't hold that kind of same water that some of these other cases did you know, uh, everything that's been going on in regards to the news, I mean, people were celebrating the fourth of july. In the last couple weeks, it's interesting to me that I've seen both sides of the fence Some people celebrating the 4th, some not. What's interesting to me, as we continue to continue to drive through another chapter in this administration's second term, it seems to me that they have doubled and tripled down on everything to see. It's almost like throwing something on the wall and seeing how much of it sticks, versus if it's just sliding off.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't know what your opinion about this stuff, but it's, the scary part is a lot of it is sticking recently. You know this guy's on a roll man. You know he's on a roll. You know he's got um, everybody thinks that I mean, and actually I gotta say I'm not a trumper. You know, yeah, probably not, um, but I gotta say some of this foreign policy stuff that he's been pulling, you know, recently, has really worked out for him. And if it's working out for him, it's got to say some of this foreign policy stuff that he's been pulling recently has really worked out for him. And if it's working out for him, it's got to be working out for the United States of America in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3:And since I'm a loyal patriotic American, I can't just reflexively dislike everything he does. I mean dropping that bunker buster on the Iranian place, regardless of the fact that nobody's going to ever find out until you know not now, nobody's going to know what it really did. But I mean, you know it shut those guys up pretty fast, you know, and and he's, he's, he's just, uh, I don't know he shoots from the hip and some and, but he's destroying people's lives. There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 2:But uh, public relations wise, he's doing excellently you know, it's interesting because someone who has spent a lot of time in, I would say, back in the, I would say around 9-11, after completing the book behold the pale horse I was probably thinking that we were going to start going to these. We were going to start what. What the book refers to is going to your local post office to check in, to be sent to a camp of some flavor.
Speaker 3:I was like that's what I thought was coming next no one be low and behold, 25 years later well, I mean, you know, you just, uh, people notice when you sit.
Speaker 3:I mean, in this new budget thing, the big beautiful bill, see how much more extra money there is for ICE. I mean unprecedented amount of money for this, for basically this internal. I mean I'm not going to go over the cliff and call them secret police, because they're certainly out in the open, but this is a you know FBI, you there's a million different police units and you know groups of police in the United States, but nobody has ever done the kind of things that these guys do. They come in with masks, they take away people. You know they do it right in front of everybody else and it's just a little out of control and people are beginning to notice and it's going to really the rubber's going to hit the road at a certain point. And you know they got an extra, how many billion dollars they got for their budget. You know there's going to be more of these things and I don't know I'm not in the head of the American public to be able to figure out what exactly, when, enough is enough.
Speaker 2:Where's the threshold? When do we stop? As William Cooper said, when do we become lions and not sheep? Do you feel like people? Is it the idolization of the administration? Are they flocks of sheep? What do you think here?
Speaker 3:No, I mean. I mean, I think Trump's got a base of about 25-30% of people who believe that anything he does is going to be good, you know, because they're true believers. So, like, he's like almost a demigod to these people. So, um, and I can, you know, guy gets shot in the ear supposedly, and he's, he's fine. Yeah, you know. I mean, when you see that if you're already inclined to believe that this guy is sent by god, you know, like, um, then how much more proof do you need? So, um, you know, it's a lot of people, I mean, I think a lot of. But what really it is is, and there's a lot of reasons why I don't want to jump around too much but people have a supernatural bent to them and they want to see magic happen, just like it happens in the movies.
Speaker 3:And you know, alongside that is the real impatience and kind of like, just democracy is just so boring. It's so boring, you know, nothing happens. I mean, you can go on for weeks. And then these, when these guys are just talking, you know when's it, when's the action gonna break out, when's the car gonna catch on fire? So, um, you know when's it, when's the action going to break out? When's the car going to catch on fire? So, um, you know that happens, it was going to happen, and Trump is a genius of being able to um fulfill people's uh expectations of a guy who's going to walk in and is going to make all the decisions for them. You know, like, um, you don't have to think about it.
Speaker 3:Republican, you know, it's not that long ago that these congressmen would actually you could imagine a Democratic congressman voting for a Republican bill the other way around. It's not that long ago, I mean, you know, and now that's not happening. I mean, zero Democrats voted for the big, beautiful bill and the Republicans they had a little bit of a problem, but the problem came from the people on the right who felt it didn't go far enough. So, you know, I mean, how are you going to vote for something? I mean, one thing that has come out that's very clear is that Trump's not a populist. He's not a populist. You know he's a. He's a pretty much of a straight Republican guy who's going to lower taxes, you know, for his people, and, um, that's his main goal, and the rest of the stuff is all smoke and mirrors to keep people distracted from the fact that he's making out like a bandit and his buddies so, and that's nothing new, that's been going on forever. It's just that nobody ever.
Speaker 3:It's like it used to happen behind closed doors. That's the William Cooper idea. Sure, because and William Cooper died I mean just to use Bill Cooper as an example of somebody who might have been tapped into the fact that his destiny and his fate was not in his own hands. You know, little castle and all this kind of stuff, and I got my pickup truck and that kind of stuff you know which is. And the people who live in I live in Brooklyn, right, I mean people like that. Here too, they just got different kinds of pickup trucks.
Speaker 3:You know so like and when and when and when you begin to understand that all those ideas of people behind closed doors, the wizard behind the curtain, one of Cooper's favorite ideas was the truth is in the hidden, the things you can't see. That's where the truth really relies. So now, but he said all that stuff before the internet. One thing that's interesting about him I mean people that know who he is. I mean he had a radio show like not that different than the radio show we're on now, more or less without, without pictures and um, and he would rant about this kind of stuff and sometimes he was right and sometimes he's wrong, but that's you know, he was a personality on the radio, but it's most of these radio shows were like um, satellite radio shows and if the signal didn't come in, that well, right, and all kinds of stuff you know. So then, and he's talking basically because people always talk about 10 years before. That's what they know. They know 10 years that had. Then they don't know what's happening. You know tomorrow or even today, because they haven't been able to process all the material. So, but the things that happened a few years before, then you had time to think about it and you've come up with a coherent idea about what might've happened, right? So Bill Cooper is talking about stuff that happened in the 80s and 1990s, when he's on the radio and then he dies in 2001, two or three months after 9-11.
Speaker 3:So if you want to say the 21st century, I mean the 21st century began on 9-11. That day is the beginning of the 21st century, like, sometimes, the 20th century. Most historians believe the 20th century didn't really begin until World War I, which is already 1918. So they're 18 years late. But the 21st century came right on time, right 2001.
Speaker 3:So look where we're at now, where the truth, or the so-called truth, is no longer behind closed doors or it's like everything you can see, everything you want to see, on the internet. Yet then you begin to really lose trust because seeing ain't believing, and that's something that people, um, you always believe. That the picture was worth a thousand words, you know. But that's not the case anymore. It hasn't been for several years. Right, then, everybody knows it. So therefore, the more people you can't trust, the more paranoia that you're going to have about. Are they out to get me? Are they not out to get me? I can't even tell from looking at the video whether it's fake or not. Not out to get me? I can't even tell from looking at the video whether it's fake or not. So if I believe in Jesus Christ or something like that, you know some kind of supernatural power that I'm believing is infallible. Does not trick you. Always true, right.
Speaker 3:So, it doesn't? You know we're not going to get into theological discussion here, but that is a powerful thing, and it's no real surprise that evangelicalism and stuff like that has increased since the Internet came about. And it's not just because these guys can advertise on the Internet. It's like you can't believe what you see. So what are you going to have faith in? So you might as well have faith in the Bible, and the Bible is telling you. And then if Trump is the guy who, even though when he walks over to the during the first Trump administration, he walks over, he's holding the Bible. Remember when he held the Bible up Upside?
Speaker 2:down, yeah.
Speaker 3:Upside down. You know he illustration, he walks over. He's holding the bible. Remember when he held the bible upside down? Yeah, upside down. You know he doesn't even. You know that's well. You know there's only two ways to hold, so he held it upside down. I mean, to me the fact that he held it upside down is an interesting little symbolic thing, because he doesn't care it's upside down or right side up or inside out, he doesn't care, it's just, um, he knows that he's making, he's sending these kind of semiological signals to the people who have the receptors to be able to.
Speaker 2:You know, they have that kind of spiritual thing about them and it's that's kind of where we're at, I mean, in a kind of like loopy way of describing it it's's interesting because if someone like myself, who has spent, who's looked at this book and has taken for a grain of salt entertainment, maybe value in regards to Behold the Pale Horse, if, if I, if I'm, if I am remotely like going back and and like what, reading the book again, and I'm I haven't, but from my memory, why not?
Speaker 2:yeah, right, because I feel like that we are in a modern day of what some of the stuff that William Cooper talked about is happening. You're talking about these, but it's not behind closed doors. These guys are well masks. If they're masked, iced individuals. And are they truly ice? Are they, you know? Are they?
Speaker 3:No, that's another thing that you can't you know, you don't even know if they're actual ice agents because they don't show their badges right. So, um, the uh, yeah it's. It's really kind of. There was a very strong wish, I think, for some daddy guy to come along who's?
Speaker 3:going to tell everybody what to do. You go sit in a corner, or you know, you know whatever it. And this guy's the guy. I mean, look at the world. There's not been one change. I mean, maybe there are some people can write in and tell me what they are, but every change of government that's happened in the past 20 years or so has been towards a more authoritarian government. I mean, and that seems to be what, what people want you know. So I mean, if you, if you have a democracy, and they vote for a, a, a all-powerful leader, you know what are you going to say. I mean, you're going to say, well, that's really terrible, but the people voted for it. I mean, I'm not disputing that donald trump won the election. I mean, I'm not, as I'm not, as I'm not as sleazy as those people who claim that they, that biden, stole the election. I mean, you know he's the winner. Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, I mean we know, I tell you america, my feelings about america.
Speaker 3:I have a much more patriotic attitude about amer, since Donald Trump has been the president, than I ever did, because I it's in trouble. You know the idea of the constitution, all that stuff that's in there. You know all that assumptions, the reason. There's a reason why people did things the way they did them. You know it's because they wanted. When you, when the military goes out, they don't swear allegiance to the great leader, they swear allegiance to the great leader, they swear allegiance to the constitution. And the constitution has not changed. I don't care what the supreme court says, you know it stays the same. You know, and you can interpret it any way you want to interpret it, but you can't just get around it, and that was one of the things that william cooper was very upset about. You know he would say okay, let's take a look at the fourth amendment. You know searches and illegal search and seizures. Yeah, every time they're tapping your phone without you know that's, that's an illegal search and seizure, you know.
Speaker 3:And whether or not they, got you know I mean the warrant culture, the culture of getting a warrant, you know it's it's like, not as you know it's. It depends on who's ordering the warrant. You know I mean it's. It's a very slippery slope that we have going on here and I personally am concerned, for the first time in a while, in a long time you know about about the future of the republic to which I pledged allegiance to every morning in school.
Speaker 3:You know I mean so, and I and I'm, I'm, I, you know, at the left I'm a protester. I gotta say I mean I'm gonna come clean.
Speaker 3:We went out on the no kings thing, my wife and I, and you know, you know what, and we have a, we have we, we've been carrying these, these, these signs, right sure you know, like we have this, we had a sign like gleeful sadists should not be leaders, yeah, so you know that kind of stuff, right, or like you know, or like when, when we, when musk was around, you know, when he was a seemingly of you know there was, he was easier to make fun of. So this time, this time, on this particular big protest, was like 250 000 people there, our foot, our sign wasn't one of these things was the american flag. We carried the american flag the entire way. It was raining like cats and dogs and we killed the american flag as we walked through this thing and some of the people didn't really like it that much, but I didn't give it what they think I, I am an american and I do not like the way the government is handling things. So almost everything that william cooper said, which he's seeing it through one lens, from one direction, that somehow I mean I don't even know who the boogeyman was in his, in his, uh, cosmos, you know, like the fun council on farm relations, yeah, and all these other people like that. Now you turn on pbs. You know pbs, which they're trying to get rid of because it's public radio, public television, and the council and farm relation guys are on there all the time and they're the me, the main. They're like the mainstream guys. These are like the normals. You know the Council on Foreign Relations In William Cooper's book Behold the Pale Horse they never changed this.
Speaker 3:It was a fold-out thing. Remember that, yes, fold-out at the end. And every single person from the foreign relations that he could get the name of, every single person from the foreign relations who were that he could get the name of, and it was there. It showed you the invisible government that was keeping you down. You know, the invisible government that was covering up all this stuff. That was, you know, bill cooper had a lot of, you know, different crazy ideas. I would admit they were kind of nutty. I mean, he was fundamentally correct, but his, but his details were a little bizarre. So, like you know, sometimes it was, you know, cover up the flying saucers. Then he stopped that. Then it was all about the Freemasons and stuff like that and you know he kept on looking for that force. That one thing that you could figure out was controlling everything.
Speaker 3:But I don't think that now, in this world where things are so much more complicated not, you know, or complicated to try to figure out. You can't put it. It's not just one group, it's not the secretary of the interior, or you know whoever, whoever you know whoever is the bad guy. You know, um, there is no bad guy. The bad guy's in your head, my friend. Yeah, the bad guy is in your friend, in your head, because you continue to to, um, I mean people, people, you know, I'm looking, I'm looking at my telephone. It tells me how many hours a day I spend on the telephone.
Speaker 2:Sure, it's like the other day.
Speaker 3:the other day I broke my own record. My phone was on for five hours. So, like I'm feeling, like what? I mean I'm just a fucking robot, you know Right, you know it's not like you know I'm. So I mean I'm just a regular Joe. I mean, you know, I'm just a regular Joe. You begin to examine yourself and you go like, well, what's wrong here? I better look at myself first. So I'm trying to go back to first Fima Feshi, kind of things. Who am I? I'm a guy from New York who is an.
Speaker 3:American I happen to have. I mean, then there's all kinds of other stuff. I'm a Met fan, I'm a this. I mean, then there's all kinds of other stuff. I'm a Met fan, I'm a this. I mean all those different things, but really at the end of the day I'm somebody that wants to live in a country, that I can live in a country, and if it's going to keep on going like this, you know it's going to be more and more difficult to live in it.
Speaker 2:It seems to for those who may be on the other side of the spectrum, where they feel like, oh, I can breathe again like it's either swayed too much to one side or swayed to the other, and I feel in, and I know I'm just saying in regards to how someone may perceive that this, right here, the modern day of what we are living in, this is what I, this is. I attest to this. This goes back to 2016. We would not be in this situation and for I this hear me out on this we wouldn't be in this situation if the democrats did not go get those bernie votes. Donald trump would have never won. I, the isolation.
Speaker 3:I agree with you completely, and that's just. You know joe rogan, who was joe rogan for before, he was for donald trump, bernie sanders, yeah he wanted.
Speaker 3:I got a lot of respect for joe rogan. I mean, I mean, he's is somebody who looks at a certain kind of thing, or people like him, and I feel like I had some kinship with him. When you're trying to push a system which just is slow, no longer it doesn't work anymore, you know there's you need changes. You know you need systematic changes to be able to make the thing work and the Constitution is supposed to be able to adjust for the times. These guys were really smart. You know the founding fathers. They might have had slaves and done all this other stuff Sure, people are so happy to talk about, but they came up with a good system.
Speaker 3:I mean, one of Cooper's favorite quotes was when the lady comes over to Benjamin Franklin after they write the constitution and she says, well, what kind of government are we going to have, dr franklin?
Speaker 3:And he says a republic, if you can keep it. You know, in other words, it's not that easy to keep a decent government. The citizens have to do part, a large part, of the work, you know, and they can't look the other way when these, when these kind of huckster people who are coming claiming to be politicians, get in office. And then I mean I would like to find out how many of those people that voted for that bill on the republican party really wanted to vote for it, and how many of them voted for it just because they think that trump was going to kick their ass. You know, so, like um, it's just not a democracy. At this point it's some kind of like you know it's not fascism, like people like moron people over here like say, you know it's something else, but it really bears watching. And if you're going to be a homer for the other side, for either side, you're going to miss what's going on.
Speaker 3:You can't be a homer.
Speaker 2:I think that's the biggest thing that I really why this show should be, why it exists. We need to ask questions and we need to bring to the awareness of those who are just like, yeah, this is great, it doesn't affect me because I'm not. You know, I, I was born here, my, my family's from here, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't need to worry about I can tell from your name that you're not an american, mario come on, well, I'm not referring to myself, I'm more referring to others.
Speaker 3:You know well I mean you know that's what america's supposed to have immigrants in it. That's the whole idea, right, right, I mean you know well, I mean you know that's what america's supposed to have immigrants in it. That's the whole idea, right, right, I mean you know, if you can't, if you, I don't know, I mean I have this brutal knock down, drag out arguments from people about this, because I'm from an immigrant family, I live in, I live in a city where almost every single person is is within the past three generations as an immigrant and it seems to be working just fine, you know, right?
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, it's got its problems, that 12 million people's problems crammed together in one place. There's going to be some problems, right? Okay, I understand that you know.
Speaker 2:it just seems that to me, that, uh, I'm to look at the whole big picture. Look, I'm an American, I was born here. You know my mom was born here. You know my dad wasn't. He's a naturalized citizen, but you know.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, maybe they're going to look into that.
Speaker 2:Maybe they might.
Speaker 3:Somebody look into that, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, I kid you, not you I. So what then? I'm gonna have to go back to mexico and start selling feet pictures on, you know, on uh, only fans, you know, I mean I don't know if you have to do that, but you know you might want to consider buffing up your technical skills yeah, in a different foreign language right and I don't even speak the language.
Speaker 3:You know how many. Well, you better start going to those classes, man, you know.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 3:There are hundreds, I'm not interested in going back to Romania.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:I'm not interested in that. I've been to Romania.
Speaker 2:I don't want to go back. And you know, just like the president of the United States is also someone who is from an immigrant family.
Speaker 3:You know what his grandfather did for a living? Are you familiar with this?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 3:They ran whorehouses in the Klondike during the gold rush in Alaska. That's where that money comes from, the first bit of it, you know. And then the next chunk of money comes from. His father is the king of blockbusting, which meant that he would go around and tell all these little Italian and Jewish ladies who live in these houses near Coney Island the black people are moving in. You better sell. Now you know it's called blockbusting. That's where Fred Trump's money comes. I mean, it's not, it's not. He didn't make us up. You know, the apple doesn't fall that far from the tree, my friend. So you know. And yet all this kind of stuff. I don't hate Donald Trump, I don't hate him. I don't hate Donald.
Speaker 3:Trump. I don't hate him. I don't either. I mean I don't hate him. I mean I'm from Queens, he's from Queens. I understand that personality. I grew up with people like that. I know him, you know, and yeah, he's a prick, but there were always pricks around when I was growing up. I know like I'm not interested in having anything to do with with mr vance or elon musk or any of these people, I mean, but donald trump. I know him, you know he's one of my guys, sort of in a weird way you know.
Speaker 2:So it's interesting to me because you, just, you know, you, you touched on the elon musk piece where the two were fighting, like you know, school girls in high school having a cat fight and basically who had the bigger and and and the guy was like yo if, if he says anything, I mean the guy was like I'll throw him out of the country.
Speaker 3:Basically, you know not he, he saw it, donald trump, just he saw this jerk off coming a mile away. You know, I mean he. He says, oh, you're the richest man in the world, huh, okay, well, I mean you got to give me some money if you want to get in on this. You know, I mean I'm the president, I'm going to be the president. I mean, you know, you want to, you want to. Right, he's he.
Speaker 3:You know, like elon musk. There's a famous old movie, right, betty davis. She goes to the big southern thing. Everybody wears white. She says it shows up wearing a red dress. It's a movie called jezebel and it was the height of, like, just arrogance and and stuff like that. And this is like.
Speaker 3:So when, donald, when elon musk shows up in the, in the white house, and he's wearing a black maga hat and everybody else is wearing a red magGA hat, including the president of the United States, you know who's the inventor and the king of all this. So you know, guys like that, I mean their pride goes before a fall and Donald Trump is like just waiting there to pull the fucking rug out from the guy after he gets all the money. So do you imagine what Musk must have felt when he finds out that that bill doesn't include that extra thing, that, um, those benefits for buying an electric car, that that was keeping him in business, that the biden administration was making him a fortune, sure, and now now his guy, donald trump, is going to take that away. I could you imagine how he felt at that point Got played, what, what, I haven't been played and then Trump, he doesn't care, no, he'll find another billionaire. I mean, who cares? It's like you know. I mean he just outsmarted the guy completely and you've got to give it to them.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean you've got to give it to them. You know, I mean he is the great. Gotta give it to him. You know, this president is the greatest showman he is able to. He says what he's gonna do. He does what he says. There's a for for lack of it, he's just like you said he's a straight shooter.
Speaker 3:He's been I don't know if he's a straight.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean in regards to shooting from the head, I wouldn't say he's a straight shooter. He doesn't?
Speaker 3:he's not trying to with with guys like musk, who's who's like? You know people like that. He's not trying to trick his voters. I mean he's not going to do anything because they know he's not going to do anything but he may.
Speaker 2:In that fight he basically made elon his bitch absolutely, totally.
Speaker 3:I agree with you, absolutely 100. And, and you know elon's not going to get back. And what did he get out of it? What did he get out of it? I mean his, his stock went down. He had protesters in front of every single tesla dealership, you know. But and that whole time when he was running around with the doge thing, with the, with the, with the chainsaw, he was taking the heat off trump. He was capturing all the heat, yes, everything that, everything that people were. You know, people don't like when other people lose their jobs, you know so. And they're going like well, it must be musk, it's not donald, I mean, he wouldn't do a thing like that. So and then try, then musk is like completely taken in. He's just yeah, that's right, I'm gonna, I going to make you lose your job, I'm going to come in there and fire you. You know, it's just not.
Speaker 2:Smoking me. This is what this is. These are things that I think that if he was still alive, he would be talking about this. I think that William Cooper would be like beside himself you know that's one of the questions that I get a lot.
Speaker 3:I get a lot. I get a lot of questions like well, what do you think Bill Cooper would think of Donald Trump?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean that comes up, you know, I mean the 17 people that know that I wrote this book about more than 17 people that know that you wrote that book.
Speaker 3:They often ask that same question. Right, been asked that same question, right? So and and you know, I don't really exactly know how to answer it I mean, my hopeful answer is because I, like bill cooper, I read a whole book about him. You had a kind of I mean, I don't like to write about people, I don't like. Sure you know, I I don't want to live with them. You know, because when you write a book about somebody, that person's in your head all the time and these things can take like two and three years. You know, it isn't like you just dash it off on the Internet and go to the next thing.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like Research and just.
Speaker 3:I respected the guy. I respected that he was a veteran, I respected all these kind of things. I respected him for even his insane stuff. I respected him because, like, at least he meant it, you know Right. So if I respected him because, like, at least he meant it, you know right so he wasn't trying to trick anybody, he was driving himself insane, which is what happened, but um, you know. So I would hope that Bill Cooper would say you know, I believe in the constitution of the United States, which is what he always did, and if you believe in the constitution of the united states, you've got to, like you know, call the current things that are happening.
Speaker 3:You got to call them out on the carpet, sure, and you know and and and and say what they are for what they are. You can't run around with it. I mean, remember the beginning of bill cooper's radio show with the jackboot thugs? You know, yeah, and the barking dogs and stuff like that. What does that sound like to you now? I mean, who's doing that? Now, you know, yeah, so you know.
Speaker 2:Then I say, you know, I don't know, bill cooper, maybe he, he would, maybe he would be a trumper, but I doubt it I think that he would be someone who would be, um, I I feel like he would be questioning a lot of things that are going on right now. I mean, I think that the show would be still. He would still be doing that piece of the show and I mean he'd still be calling out Alex Jones and I haven't seen Alex Jones in my end days, you know I haven't seen no he's, he's, he's.
Speaker 3:He's got a lot of problems, alex jones, you know, and well deserved. I mean an unforced theory, you might say, but I mean the thing about bill cooper also, which people don't remember because they they don't listen to the show but mean he used to play all these jazz records. He was a hipster, he was like a kind of like California laid before he got, you know, became the patriot Bill Cooper. He was like this laid-back guy who had a political show that was like you know. He used to drive people crazy by playing these, louis, because he played the trumpet and he was trying to learn to play the trumpet. That was one thing that Bill Cooper wanted to play. It was that was one of the few things that you know. People that knew him really felt that he was totally serious about, he really wanted to play the trumpet. So his favorite trumpet player was Louis Armstrong. Happens to be a different color than some of his you know, know most of his listeners right so like, and he would say you people are just a bunch of jerk-offs.
Speaker 3:Louis armstrong, what did he do? He did it. He didn't sit around on his ass telling, you know, complaining about everything. He got out there and he did it and they didn't and they didn't like the color of his skin, he didn't care. He went out and did it. And that's great, that's fine. More points for.
Speaker 2:Bill Cooper, and there it is. That's what you're referring to right which. His introduction? I don't know.
Speaker 3:Can you hear his introduction? I can't hear it on my side. See if you can. See if you can get it. It's just so. It's the best single intro it is of any of any radio show.
Speaker 2:I mean maybe the shit, yeah with the siren, yeah, yeah and then the the feet you know, right, I mean.
Speaker 3:I mean the shadow, the beginning of the shadow radio show. The shadow knows that was pretty good but bill cooper's thing is really one of the tupped and radio introductions of all time you gotta get it.
Speaker 2:Mario, come on, you can get it oh yeah, I I got it, it's just not going to you. I don't know why it's not going to you uh, yeah, people can listen to all this.
Speaker 3:The name of the show for people that listening up uh hour the hour of the time yeah, and you can find them on the internet they're all over youtube.
Speaker 2:That's where I was.
Speaker 3:Uh, there's there's hundreds of them.
Speaker 2:You know, hundreds I mean it's interesting, though, when you you go back and you look I know that there were we.
Speaker 3:We talked about alex jones and the stuff that he's been going through, but alex jones listened to, to william cooper, to to kind of get you know his should we say shtick of what alex jones had become you know yeah, well, I mean, uh, he used to like, you know, when I was a kid, we used to, uh, you know, your parents would be screaming at you to right, turn it down, go to sleep, go to go to bed, because you got to get up to go to school.
Speaker 3:But you, you'd always be listening to cousin brucey or murray the k, you know, in your transistor radio under the. That was alex jones. I mean, he listened to bill cooper, didn't come on until late at night and he'd be listening to bill to bill cooper every night and that's how he that's, and he admired bill cooper and you know there was a lot of fight between two of them because they're just like two guys we're never going to get along but uh right but and I think I'm going to say this on this show but I think it's important to remember that the night that bill cooper was shot, nobody covered, covered it, not one person like of any news.
Speaker 3:I mean they sent the local TV shows, came up there the next morning, but Alex Jones called up in the middle of the night and started and put it on his show. He was trying to find out what happened to Bill Cooper because he really cared. She really cared what happened to Bill Cooper, even if he supposedly didn't like him. I mean bill cooper was his idol.
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean. I mean, it's just when you go back, you know you, you have that piece where the two didn't get along. But someone he also did not like was you know the the. The other guy who did a show that was in the midst of the same time period was, you know know, art bell, who had his you know big radio show over there at uh that was cool, cool, cool.
Speaker 3:We're hated Our bell but that was because our bill had a bigger audience than he did. Well, yeah, I mean absolutely, I mean.
Speaker 2:I mean he was clearing 800 affiliates at night. 800 is a lot of radio station and I mean I can know, I don't know art bell is a legend man.
Speaker 3:I mean, he's like long.
Speaker 3:There's a few of these guys long john nebel, you know who that was yeah, yeah and I mean a few of these people that that had these kind of shows that really took off, you know. But, um see, cooper, originally he was on this um kcr I can't remember the name of the thing, but he was on a high power, uh, christian it was. It was called, I thought. For a long time I thought it was worldwide country radio, but it was worldwide christian radio, that's right. The c, the c, was for christian, so cooper and cooper was on there and they and he had a huge um, I mean people, you could hear him all over the place right because.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, being bill cooper.
Speaker 3:He got in a fight with them, they threw him off, you know, sure. And then for the next 10 years of his career, it was all catch as catch can like, trying to get a signal, you know right and either doing you know and and then half the time you couldn't hear it right, which also for his fans made it even better because it was more like a message from god. Barely came in, you know, it didn't show up every night, right, maybe. Maybe you'll come tomorrow night.
Speaker 2:I mean the mysterious.
Speaker 3:I mean, if you can imagine that, but it was cool man, it was cool.
Speaker 2:And that for someone who was not in radio in 97, when I came across, you know, art Bell, I'm like what is this, you know. But I've always and this is probably me in general, even as a moderator or host I'm intrigued, but I don't like, I don't obsess, I'm not spending all of my waking hours looking at you know, that's because you're a normal person.
Speaker 3:I mean, that may be the case, but that's because you're a normal person.
Speaker 2:I mean, well, I mean that may be the case, but that's. I mean, I have a pat, I'm, I'm the, I'm the, the guy in the grocery, you know, with my little grocery cart and I'm, I am waiting to check out, and then I see the tabloid and I'm like, oh, that's interesting. So then I look and then, after I, you know, oh, it's my turn to move, I move up, you know, and that's how I've always been when it comes to this. So maybe that's on me, you know, because there are other people that are way more enthusiastic, but I the one thing that I always want to say, regardless on political peace just remember this like when this kinds of stuff, when these types of things are happening, this, the like when this kinds of stuff, when these types of things are happening, we need to make sure that we're asking the question it wait.
Speaker 2:Is that? Did that really just happen? Are we? Are we wait? What, what? What was that? You know what I mean? Like people, I, I, I don't care if you're a republican, a democrat, an independent, a libertarian, whatever party you might be. There are people that are out there that are being taken away and if, whatever their immigration status is, regardless, that has got to be the most terrifying thing. And where are they going? You know?
Speaker 3:well, I mean it's, it's just like you know. I mean really, I mean it's, it's just like you know. I mean really, I mean it's heartbreaking.
Speaker 3:It's just heartbreaking to see the United States government acting this way. But it's not the first time, man. You know, exactly 100 years ago, if you look at the history of the USA, you know, if somebody bothered to look into the actual history of the thing, to look into the actual history of the thing, yeah, you would see that after World War I, from 1919 to around 1926 or something like that, there was a whole thing about putting in. They passed these things. In 1924 they passed a thing called the Chinese Exclusionary Act. In other words, what they did there was that there were a number of Chinese people that were in the United States that built the railroads and a bunch of other stuff. They needed them, right, but they didn't want them to reproduce. So they banned all Chinese women. I mean, how draconian can you be? You know, you've got all these males there working in restaurants and stuff like that and their wives can't come and no women can come. And this was just the law of the land. Look it up 1924, the Chinese Exclusionary Act.
Speaker 3:You know, just look it up, do your own research, my friend, and you'll find that this, you know there's been these things. That's one of the reasons, which it's both heartening and disheartening that the country has gone through these periods before where, um, not to mention the whole- slavery and segregation.
Speaker 3:I'm not even going to get into that, but I mean, you know, the idea of immigrants and this kind of thing was like you know, I really believe that my grandparents were probably illegal. I mean, some of them came through Ellis Island, which made them legal, but not all of them. Some of them came from Canada, you know, and so you know that's, how many generations do you have to be born here before, like you know, people are going to be willing to accept you? I mean, you know, just, I don't know, these white guys are just a little bent out of shape about this kind of stuff, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's something you can say, that's something I can say, I mean you know.
Speaker 3:I mean you know it's like I can say I mean you know, I mean you know it's like, I mean it's heartbreaking and really, what do they want to do? They just want to make a living like anybody else. I mean you know, yeah, there's crooks and criminals among them, and there's crooks and criminals among every population.
Speaker 2:I I I go back and there was a movie that was a Sundance film called the day without a Mexican, and like, like it was, like all these Mexicans, there'll be a there'll be a very frustrating day for the people that live in LA.
Speaker 2:They're like you go back and they're like where's Consuela? You know she wasn't there to clean the house. You know she wasn't there to clean the house, you know, um, and there was a joke where even, like, one of the babies went missing too. They're like where's my daughter? And the mom was looking for the baby, and the baby was gone too, because the baby was half mexican and so the baby was gone too, um, but there was no. There was no one to pick the fields.
Speaker 2:You know, there there was no migrants to work the this in the doc, in this, in this film, it showed these people they're like what's going on, where is everybody, you know, and so they're like man, we got to do all this work now, you know, it was just it just interesting to to watch this doc, this movie.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying I mean I, I just think. I just think it's really not that. I mean I'm not. I'm not in favor of people just running across the border. You know, I'm not saying that I mean I mean, like you know, but there's reforms that can be made. That doesn't necessarily have to include, you know, coming in the middle of the night. You know I'm not saying they're doing this. I mean, you know, there's a lot of rumors, there's a lot of stuff that happens on both sides, right?
Speaker 2:so you know there's a lot of rumors. There's a lot of stuff that happens on both sides right.
Speaker 3:So, like you know, you can't, until it becomes. I mean I hate to bring this up, but until 1945, for the most part, nobody knew what was happening over there in Germany. I mean they just didn't know, you know. I mean the people were in the concentration camps, they got burned alive, they knew, but I mean a lot of people didn't know, mean they just didn't know, you know, I mean the people were in the concentration camps, they got burned alive, they knew, but I mean a lot of people didn't know, they just didn't know and they didn't want to know.
Speaker 2:So, um, the, the misinformation right now. Uh, to kind of go back to uh alcatraz, you know, alligator alcatraz, someone on social media said that they were installing an incinerator. You know, and I was like holy.
Speaker 3:I mean, well, I mean you know, look, you know there's a road that goes. I used to live down there, I know it, I know it. So, like there's a road that goes across the Everglades called Alligator Alley. You know it goes right through the sawgrass, right, I mean, if you're an environmentalist, you're not really that fond of that road because it's screwing up the Everglades, but we don't even care about that. Let's not even get into that. Yeah, so, like you know Trump, he loves these names the Alligator, alcatraz, I love it. You know, know, it's like, you know they're not going to really do it. I mean, there is a, there is a detention place down there, the chrome detention place, which I've actually been in because doing some story I don't remember which one, but it's a big place for illegal aliens.
Speaker 3:You know, when the Haitians remember the Haitian boat people, yeah, when was? I don't remember when, that was maybe 1990s, 2000s, but I mean there was all kinds of stuff and now you don't hear anything about it. But I mean, if you look at Haiti now, they don't even have a government. I mean, gangs run the whole place. Why would you want to get away from there, you know? Sure, I mean you'd have to be insane to want to stay there, you know. And so it's just. It's a very difficult question because I understand that people don't want to live around people that aren't like them, you know. But yeah, it's just, that's the that's that's the deal in any urban situation in this country. You're gonna have to live with people that don't look like you, and if you don't like it, you're just gonna have to get used to it, you know.
Speaker 2:And if you want to move out to the suburbs, you know, but sooner or later they're gonna be there too, you know yeah, but this is almost as war, this is worse than 9-11, because I mean, it's just, you know, people then were being, you know, racially profiled back then as well, and my god that was terrible, I mean what actually?
Speaker 3:I wanted to ask you a question. Um, yeah, you know, this guy got elected. He's going to be the mayor. Mom dommy, right, right. What do people out in the west coast think about this?
Speaker 2:they like it, they have no issue.
Speaker 3:They thought Cuomo was a bum if it was ever anybody that got what was coming to him, it's definitely Andrew Cuomo, you know. I mean I didn't vote for Mamdami, I gotta tell you because I, you know, to me old, I mean, new York City is a complicated thing. You want somebody to know something about it, you know.
Speaker 2:but that's a good sign when I found out that he won.
Speaker 3:I felt that was great. I mean, because young people and this is a really big topic At a certain point, who's really going to have to live through all this? You know, this ain't going to be me. I'm 77 years old man. I'm on the last train out of here, you know. I mean and I don't know how old you are, but I mean, the young people are the people that are going to have to live through. You know, whatever is going to happen because of this, you know, if it turns, I'm optimistic that it won't stick right. Right, but if it did, if it did, you know that's a rougher life than the one that we've lived.
Speaker 2:I I think I, you know someone like my daughter who was like man. We, my generation's been through a lot. You know we've had covid. She wasn't a part of 9-11 but you know she had the covid situation. Covid, she wasn't a part of 9-11, but you know she had the COVID situation. She's seen, you know this stuff that's going on and she's been pretty. I would say she, she's not one. She asks a lot of questions. She's not a protester, she's not someone out here. You know she definitely asks a lot of questions and good for her for asking, but I feel that it's her generation that is going to on F what has happened and it's going to take it's not going to be easy, believe me, yeah, you know.
Speaker 3:And also I mean, for instance, like when you elect somebody who's like 33 years old, I mean at least he looks like you, even if he's happy to be Muslim, right, I mean at least he looks like you, even if he happens to be Muslim right. So I mean you know people don't care that much about that kind of stuff in younger people. So, like the thing is, look at the politicians that they've gotten stuck with. My daughter is 41 years old. Right, she's 41 years old.
Speaker 2:So the politicians?
Speaker 3:that she remembers are you know, maybe a little bit of ronald reagan, george bush the first, sure, bill clinton, then then the loathsome george w, right, you know, then they get, they get and then, and then you get this kind of like obama thing, which may be for people of her persuasion, that was like, oh great, look at, this is the guy who actually read a book once in his life. You know so. And now you got this. So you know it's a rough road.
Speaker 3:I mean, at least when I was growing up, you know, I would hear like, oh, senator Hubert Humphrey of Minnesota, or, like you know, even these people, like you know, supposed to be legitimate individuals who thought a lot about the law and stuff like that, you know, I mean, regardless of what they really were like, the implication was that they were statesmen and they knew things and you could trust them, right. So you know, now I mean I feel sorry for them. I mean I feel guilty too. I feel a little guilty, I feel a lot guilty about it because you know our generation, especially my generation, not necessarily yours I mean we had everything you can think of. I mean, if you want to hitchhike across the country, you aren't thinking about getting murdered. You just didn't.
Speaker 3:So I mean it was fun. I mean, what can I tell you? And so there was a lot of backlash to that and the subsequent generations got the backlash and now they just work. I can't believe how much young people work. They're working 24 hours a day. You know it's like they're always working. They're always tense about working. You know it's like they're always working. They're always tense about working. You know, I mean it's a rough life.
Speaker 2:It really is the younger generation, the I mean I'm 47, so I I would say that even younger people than I am are like I just yeah, I mean I'll work and I'll work hard, but I'm like, at the end of the day, like you know, I still want to spend time with my family and people that I care about versus Well, I mean now you're in a situation, these people are in a situation, where, like you know, you never off duty. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You could always get a phone call or an email or something like that.
Speaker 2:It's true, very much true.
Speaker 3:That's the reason why they invented the Sabbath, right, you know, you're not supposed to work, you're not supposed to think about those things. That you think about all the rest of the days, you know, like Sunday, saturday, sunday, whatever day was your day of rest, right, You're supposed to rest, you know.
Speaker 2:It's not happening now. You know no, no, I mean clearly, even when you know I have to. You know, no, no, I mean clearly, even when you know I, I have to. You know you have obligations, even to the radio stations where I'm. You know I'm going to take a vacation, but the show still must go on.
Speaker 3:You know it's still speaking of that, I want to make a plug all right, yeah, do plug away well, I want everybody. You know people who would. This is not for everybody, but it might be for some people. But, um see, I'm going to tell you that there was a movie, american Gangster. Remember that movie?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Denzel Washington Movies made $400 million, right. So that is based on a story that I wrote. I found Frank Lucas, I wrote the first story about him, frank lucas I and wrote the first story about him and I they I'm saying I got paid to for them when they bought my story and made it into that movie, but it wasn't really the story of really frank lucas. So there is a documentary that just came out last week, made by the famous legs mcneil, the author of please kill me. Are you familiar with this book? Punk book? Yeah, so like it's on Tubi, it's called Pusher man and a bunch of us I'm in it and a bunch of other people are in it telling us a talking head kind of thing.
Speaker 2:But it's fun. Did you have a good time?
Speaker 3:But it tells the real story of how a journalism article is supposed to be true right, Journalism is supposed to be true and how it makes the transition to becoming this big Hollywood film. And that's what it's about and it's kind of eye-opening in a weird way. But I saw it later. He did a very good job on putting it all together and it's kind of just like a behind the music thing about a movie.
Speaker 3:You know, yeah, it's like so you can watch this on tv and a bunch of other things and it's called pusher man and I think people enjoy it well, we'll put in the podcast as well, with the link.
Speaker 2:Um, before I let you go, uh, that, that fine that uh cbs took for that 60 Minutes piece. Man, oh man.
Speaker 3:That's a brutal one. I can't believe why they would roll over for this guy like that. What I mean? William Paley, the founder of CBS. He wasn't going to do a thing like that. I mean, you know, I know, I mean gay talese you ever hear of him.
Speaker 3:He's a famous journalist yeah so I mean he wrote uh, he's just, he's still alive, he's 90 something years old, right? So when I was a young journalist, I knew him right. So he would say I got. I got one piece of advice for you kids. You know, when, anytime you're in this, you're doing a story, no matter what it is, no matter who's involved, you need to know that you're the most important person there. You know, no matter if it's the president of the United States, you're the one who's going to write down that story and it's on you to tell it correctly, right? So you shouldn't be nervous about talking to anybody. You know, just go over and talk to them, because you have as much right to be there as they do. And that's the kind of journalistic, you know world that you grow up in. And now people don't even bother to talk to the person, they just look on the internet and repeat what they see there. So it's really kind of a difficult thing.
Speaker 2:It is somebody who's like an old fart like myself, you know to watch this kind of stuff well, and it's interesting because my dad is 73, 72, and we were having a discussion, uh, recently, and he was like talking about the deep state, and I was like what in the hell do you even know about the deep state? I was like, are you, are you doing my radio show now? Are you doing my?
Speaker 3:I was well, he's always been a deep state. I mean, come on yeah, but I'm like that's the place that calls the permanent government.
Speaker 3:You know, but it was like that's when the left wing was afraid of the of the deep state. They call it the permanent government now. The right wing is afraid of the so-called deep state. What it really is is people who are like civil servants, who have been doing their job for a long time and actually know something about the topic that they're supposed to be covering. You know, like term limits. They had this guy in the New York City Council, right?
Speaker 3:This guy, stanley Marcus. I'll never forget this guy. You know it was two-year terms, he was elected 12 times but he knew everything about the sewers. He knew everything about New York City's sewers, so which occasionally comes up, you know, in a big city if it rains a lot.
Speaker 3:So you know he knew everything about it. So they put in term limits and they replaced them with some guy, you know. I mean he had a good ethnic constituency that felt that they needed a voice, you know, but the guy didn't know anything about how to run the city, you know. So this guy, stanley, was out and you just can't throw away wisdom like that.
Speaker 2:You can't do it, you know but I I think that we're seeing a, a day and age where people want to relate to their politician, but at what cost? At what cost are is that happening, you know?
Speaker 3:what cost, I don't know it's. You know, I I really feel that everything's going to be all right. I really do. I mean, you know that's what. I really feel everything's going to be all right. I mean, the country's been around a long time.
Speaker 3:It's just another blip in the you know they had the Civil War. You know all kinds of stuff and all this stuff about the. I mean, it's true. I'm not saying it's not true. The country is divided, I can't tell you. It's difficult to talk to some of your own relatives, but just because the politics stuff is always going to come up and you're always going to have an argument, so I came up with this new technique, mary. Mary, you know what I do now.
Speaker 2:What do you do?
Speaker 3:I try, when I meet somebody who has a very radically different opinion about certain things, that I do. You know. I try not to bring it up in a conversation, and you know. But and I try to be as and try to keep the conversation as civil as possible. But it would be stupid and shirking your own responsibility if you didn't speak your mind about it, right? So what I do now is I try to be as civil as possible when I'm face-to-face with the person and then I send them a letter saying I like the comment on what you said the other day and this is why I don't agree with what you said. And then I mention a few things. You know stuff like that. You know Trying to keep it on a civil level, because people are never going to get as out of shape and immediately lose their temper about something they're reading. It's just a different thing right.
Speaker 3:So that way I it's. I mean, I'm interested in keeping as many friends as I possibly can right I don't want to lose a friend because we have different political. You know it's not worth it, man, but you want to be able to. You want to be able to say what you want to do, so this is a win-win situation because, it's good for conversation.
Speaker 3:It keeps everything collegian. It makes you think about you have to think about stuff, as opposed to just flying off the candle as soon as you hear something you don't like. Right, and also it promotes literacy. Ah yeah, promotes literacy, so it's a win-win situation.
Speaker 3:It is a win-win, and that's one thing I situation it is, and I that that you know that's. That's. That's one thing I'm I've been trying to do that you know, I've been trying to keep to that little thing. You know it takes a couple extra minutes, but it's worth it do you type it?
Speaker 2:do you type it out on the keyboard and then send them?
Speaker 3:yeah, you send them an email, something like that. You know I'm not going to send them a letter. Yeah, I mean, go to the post office and like that. I mean you know there's a limit, you know, sure, I mean I just think, like you know, all right, you want to make sure that your views are heard yeah you know you don't want to.
Speaker 3:Just well, I'm just not going to say anything to this guy, you know, because like it's not worth to get an argument because I mean they can say things that you really feel like, wow, that's the dumbest fucking thing I ever heard. So, like you know, you want to be able to get that over, you know, but there's no reason to have these endlessly fractious conversations and stuff like that. And people, just you know what the environment we're living in now promotes that kind of thing, and you've got to be able to think about it, to try to civilize the universe, right, you know, as opposed to de-civilize the universe and create as much havoc and disagreement, because that's when the devil, the devil gets in, that's where the devil does his work that's what they say, that's what the devil does its work.
Speaker 3:As soon as you see, red, that the devil is in there doing that thing, and he is, and you know, I don't mind. I may not believe in god, but I definitely believe in the devil, I've seen him.
Speaker 2:I've seen him before one time when I was at a campfire, and she was hot.
Speaker 3:I'm telling you the devil showed up that day. It's just more temptation that's right right.
Speaker 2:I did not take a bite of the apple this time, this time, I you know well you know I mean.
Speaker 3:It's the world's. The world's a complicated and wonderful place. It is and um and if you, if you look at it depends on how you're looking at things. That's all.
Speaker 2:I'll say this I, with everything that has been going on, I know that someone who's read the book and I was like, do I read it again? And I'm like I don't know that I need that kind of parent.
Speaker 3:I don't need that in my life you don't need to read it again, I mean yeah, read the cliff. Read the cliff notes.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you what it's right I'm right, but for the, I just think that if if william cooper was still alive, I think we would be hearing similar to what you're. I think he would be very Constitution, he would be to the Constitution, focused on that piece, and I think if Arbel was still alive, he would say that there's a secret government, someone is running Trump.
Speaker 3:That's what I feel Well. Well, I'm thinking, that's totally, I mean that's a whole nother story. I don't think. I see, I don't, I don't know. It's hard, it's. You know, the typical thing to think is that somebody's running him, but what if he's running it all himself? You?
Speaker 3:know, he's just that he's just that he's exceedingly talented man. I mean, you know you got to just give him his props, you know, I mean that's I don't. I talk to these liberal morons, you know that live in my neighborhood, you know, and they hate him. They hate everything he shows. They hate, you know, and they can't stand him. And, like you know, the world's going to pot and everything like that, and the world is going to pot, but things are like. So I mean, I'm against legalized popular.
Speaker 3:So you know, a stoner like me, so, um, the thing is that, um, you know, you just can't think that way. It just shuts down your brain. I mean, you know, reductionism is one of the, you know, reducing things to, to this kind of like you know white and black and I kind of. So it's just, you know, night and day. I mean there's a lot of gradations here and if you think for yourself, you might actually find them. And I think that's what bill cooper was, you know, on a good day, when he wasn't really driving himself crazy or drunk or something like that, that's probably what he thought you know, yeah, there's a lot, of, a lot of shades of gray in here.
Speaker 3:You know, maybe I, you know, maybe it hits you. It depends on what, what, what it hits you that particular day, you know, and also when you guys, as you know, probably when you're on the radio, the more sensational you are, the more chance you pick up more listeners. Right, you're not there to, like you know, be miller rape or something like that.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know the dalai lama, you know he's just, that's not your job if, if it was, if it was up to me, all the time I would be telling everyone to you know, pack your, pack your thermos, go get your, uh, your stanley, go put some hot coffee in it, you're gonna need it. And uh, grab a good, grab a good book. But uh, at the end of the day, I mean I, I don't. I, because I don't believe in that, I don't, I don't think it's that bad, it's bad, but I don't think it's.
Speaker 3:I, I'm not selling you it's not, oh it's not, irretrievable yeah, it's not it's, it's if things look bad, they're not necessarily finished, right yeah?
Speaker 2:so on that note that's why.
Speaker 3:That's why you gotta wave the american flag. You've got to come up and understand that. These people that I mean when I go out west, visit my son right yeah they said well, welcome to america.
Speaker 3:I said I live in america, I'm an american. I mean I. If you want to look at the map, I mean you know, new york city happens to be in america and if it wasn't for us, you moron, you wouldn't have half the things that are cool, that you think are cool, right so? So, in any event, you know, america is a very interesting and wonderful place, and the idea that some people are claiming it for their own because they believe in these bonker kind of racist, whatever kind of ideas you want to characterize them, is just not acceptable.
Speaker 2:You know it's got to be fought on that note yeah, we've, uh, we've hit the bonus hour and see you, man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll see you.
Speaker 2:Enough time talking to the likes of me, man oh, I mean we get the radio show as we wrap things up from the pacific northwest. I I said that I would do this and I know that it is summertime and uh, I I promised this young lady, my, my daughter's sister uh, she has two of them and she was like can you give me a shout out on the radio?
Speaker 2:oh, all right great yeah, so I I'd said that I would do that for her to me as we wrap things up from the Pacific Northwest I got to thank you for always coming on to hang out, to talk shop, to talk conspiracies. Sometimes it's especially in this format of you know, the political piece and whatnot I really wanted to just kind of dive into like the swamp. I wanted to get into that, the nuts and the nasty stuff of of that piece. But it's always a pleasure to have you come on alligator alligator, alcatraz, right, they're not going to swim out.
Speaker 3:You know the reason, the reason why it's so dangerous? Uh, alligator, alligator. I'll give you this last one. It's not because of the alligators man, it's because of the Burmese pythons that grow up to 20 feet, who are invader species that don't belong there. You know that's why it's dangerous, because you know nature is out of whack. You know not, because, sure, and who did that? I?
Speaker 2:wonder how. Anyhow, on that note, as we wrap things up from the Pacific Northwest, I'd like to thank Mark. Thank you for coming to hang out with us. You can find all those links in the podcast. Again for my entire team, mark, christopher, audrey and Sophia Magana and myself, mario Magana, be sure to look up at the sky, because you never know what you might see. Good night.
