Inside The Mind Of A Serial Killer Experience

We talk with Lakendra Tookes about Mind of a Serial Killer at Pacific Place in Seattle and why the exhibit focuses on psychology and investigation instead of Hollywood shock. We share what surprised us most, how the VR case works, and what the experience can teach about awareness, mental health, and modern crime solving. 
• why Seattle’s true crime history makes the exhibit feel personal 
• how the exhibit avoids glamorizing killers by centering psychology and evidence 
• what it’s like to walk through recreated spaces like homes and apartments 
• why we recommend using the audio tracks and taking your time 
• the FBI investigation room and how profiling and tech changed cases 
• the VR experience and why doing it first helps 
• safety takeaways like the buddy system and being more aware 
• where to go, how long it’s in town, and what to expect for age guidance 
Mind of a serial killer expo.com slash Seattle, and then tickets are available on feverup.com 

Transcript

Welcome To U.S. Phenomenon

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to U.S. Phenomenon, where possibilities are endless. Put down those same old headlines. It's time to expand your mind and question what if. From paranormal activity to UFOs, Bigfoot sightings, and unsolved mysteries. This is U.S. Phenomenon.

Mario 0:21

From the Pacific Northwest in the shadow of the 1962 World's Fair, the space, you know, good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever the case may be across our platforms. If you're listening to us on one of our radio affiliates, we thank you for hanging out with us. This is U.S. Phenomenon. I am your host, Mario Magania. And this episode, you're not gonna want to miss out. If you're into true crime, this is a podcast and radio broadcast for you. Seattle has a history from Ted Bundy to Gary Ridgway, the Green River Killer, one of the largest serial homicide investigations in FBI history. There's a new exhibit exploring the psychology and science behind solving these cases, not just retelling

Why Seattle Fits This Exhibit

Mario 1:04

them. Now, joining me now is Lakendra Tooks, a writer, comedian, entertainment host who's brought her voice to places like Saturday Night Live, Access Hollywood, and has her own podcast called Tooks Take. Now, I'm a little nervous because now she's got her own podcast, so you know how that goes. Everybody gets into the podcasting world, so we love I I'm excited to get her take on this. Now, she's stepping into a very different lane as the host of the exhibit hub Mind of a Serial, the Mind of a Serial Killer, the experience right here in Seattle. It is my pleasure to welcome to U.S. Phenomenon, Le Kendra Tooks. Thanks for coming to hang out with us.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Thanks for having me, Mario. Hi.

Mario 1:51

Well, welcome. And so this exhibit here in Seattle is right at Pacific Place. Uh, for the for those who are familiar with the the area, it's in downtown Seattle. It's right here in Pacific Place. Was this tell me you you gotta open this uh this exhibit experience? How was it?

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Oh, excellent. I mean, we actually the first we did it in New York City first, uh-huh. Um, and then we wanted to come to Seattle next. Both New York City and Seattle both have very storied histories uh with crime, with um serial killers. Um, so that it makes sense for us to open in Seattle as well. And as I was just telling you a few moments ago, Mario, that was actually my first time visiting Seattle. Um, I didn't know much about Seattle. All I know is grunge music, um, rain, Frasier, Starbucks. That's all I know about Seattle. Um, I and I it never even really dawned on me. I'm from Florida, and I know that Ted Bundy, I believe he went to college in Florida. I didn't know he was from, or he committed some crimes in Florida at least. I didn't know he was actually from um the Washington area. I think he was a student at the University of Washington.

Mario 3:03

That's correct. Yes, he was a student in the University of Washington, and then I think his last crimes were in Florida, where he finally, you know, uh paid his ultimate price for his uh for his mass murders and uh and finally gotten pinned down for what uh of these ultimate crimes that he did in in Florida and across the country. I think that Florida was really gonna stick it to him anyhow. Um what a fascinating um experience. It's interesting to me that podcasts and everything else going on, like people are so fascinated by serial killers and true crime podcasts. What made you guys want to open these exhibits, uh, this exhibit here in Seattle or its second location in Seattle?

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Yeah, well, well, like I said, like you know, Seattle does have such a story to history uh with serial killers. A couple of the most famous ones, like Ted Bundy and uh Gary Ridgway, are from you know near the Seattle area. So it felt appropriate to open

Psychology Over Hollywood True Crime

SPEAKER_01 4:02

there. And really the goal of this exhibition, you know, it's called Mind of a Serial Killer. You know, this is not um a Ryan Murphy production, this is not Hollywood, this is not a movie. This is really about getting into the psychology of what could make somebody commit such a heinous crime or commit such heinous crimes, you know. And I think that's why we're all so fascinated by it. And I think that's why true crime is so popular right now. I know my parents are watching Discovery ID every single night. I mean, that's probably my favorite type of documentary to watch lately, is like a true crime doc. And I think the I think it's just that human curiosity because the the majority of us, thank God, could never even imagine doing any of the things that these people do. So it is really interesting to get inside their heads a little bit. We have recreations of their homes, and it's it's weird when you go inside, like, say, for instance, like the BTK killer. So many people, when we're walking through the exhibition, I mean, his house, it looks like your grandma's house. Like he's got that floral print couch and the shag carpet. It's like these people are human beings just like us, and you know, it's just interesting to be able to recreate. I mean, we we have a recreation of Jeffrey Dahmer's apartment, which is disgusting. I hate to I hate to say that. Like, don't go in there if you have a weak stomach, just try to strengthen your stomach before you walk through because it is it's very shocking. Um, but like I said, I think that's why so many of us are just so intrigued by it all. Because it's just like, how could you how could anyone be capable of

Walking The Exhibit And Audio Tips

SPEAKER_01 5:39

this?

Mario 5:39

It it's interesting because um I had an opportunity over the weekend to go through the exhibit and and go through and and go through the exhibit and actually immerse myself through the entire I don't want to give too much away because I want to leave the the questions that you can kind of bring to the table. What's interesting to me is going through it, well done. It's really well done. It is it's it's that was one something something that I noticed right away. I was like, wow, the way the curation is done with this, and I'm not trying to blow smoke up anybody's behind, is really done well. It's tasteful. I mean, but it's like it's raw. The way in which everything is done. Um I will say, someone who works in the audiovisual world, take the time to use your smartphone and click on the immersive, like listen to the tracks. It is so helpful, and not only that, but it guides you through the tour. So that was kind of that was kind of something that I learned right away. And uh, like you said, there are places that you can uh kind of if it's too much for you, you can kind of go through. There's like it warns you, uh, which I loved. I mean, like everything was right up. It's well done, very well done on um on your guys' part. Between the two cities, uh, new is New York done? Or is are they both simultaneously running at the same time?

SPEAKER_01 7:05

I think they're both running at the same time. I know we opened New York in April, and I do believe New York is still um still running right now, yes.

Mario 7:14

And how long does uh this exhibit plan to stay in Seattle?

SPEAKER_01 7:18

I think at least through the summer, it really just depends on um on what type of um turnout we get, but so far it's been really popular, so I know it's definitely gonna be there at least through the summer. Um, yeah, and I I love that you were able to immerse yourself into the experience. That's really what Exhibition Hub is all about. Um, I I don't know if Seattle has had some of Exhibition Hub's other productions like Dino's Alive, Titanic. Um there's a Vincent Van Gogh exhibition, but they are that's what that's what Exhibition Hub is known for. Creating these immersive experiences. It's a it's a step further than simply going to a museum. You're really like kind of immersing all of your senses, and it is raw, and it is real, and it is it's jarring. There's some parts of it that are really jarring. Um, for me, I'm pretty sensitive. So there were some things there that definitely kind of made me take a step back. Um, but I do think it's important for us to see things like that because these are based on true crimes, things that really happen. Like we didn't make this up. These are things that these, you know, I guess, I mean, I guess I could call them evil. These evil people really did. So it's it's really eye-opening that you know, these guys were in the neighborhood. They were people's neighbors, they were

Close Calls With Ridgway And Bundy

SPEAKER_01 8:37

at the grocery store.

Mario 8:37

Yeah, I mean, literally, your your next door neighbor, you know, uh Gary Ridgway were people's neighbors. I I mean I can tell you that my uncle used to shop at his garage sales back in the day. Yes, I kid you not. I also have another uh just yeah, you know, like lawnmowers and things of that, you know, things that he was sell.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Yeah, like you know, wow, that's crazy.

Mario 9:02

Yeah. I have another story that uh a friend of mine, we uh still work together. Um and he, when we were younger, he was at a house party in Sea Tac, and the story goes that he was walking home because he got in a riff with one of the friends, and he was walking home from the party, walking up the house up 200th. This is in Seattle, Sea Tac area, and this man with a pickup truck pulled over and said, Hey, do you want to ride? And he said, Yeah, sure. Got in the truck and drove up the hill, saw Gary uh alleged they you know they got to the top of 200th, and he there were police and some activity going on. The guy was like, My my buddy was like, Hey, I'll get out of the car here. And he was like, Okay, cool, got out of the car. And then weeks later, Ridgway was arrested for for suspicion or whatever, like the DNA and all that. Yeah, and he he tells a story, he's like, Yeah, that dude like picked him up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Does does he think that guy wait? So wait, okay, I'm sorry. You're saying Gary Ridgway picked him up?

Mario 10:08

That's what yeah, my buddy said he was picked up by Gary Ridgway on yeah, he picked him up on the side of uh the street.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Oh my god.

Mario 10:14

Yeah. Wow. You know, the mind of a serial killer, I I told him, I was like, you don't know he could have had somebody in the a dead body in the back of the vehicle in the truck. You have no idea. And that's something that you know though the mind of the like that's uncomprehensible to us. We can't comprehend that type of like we're like, what the you know what I mean? I don't want to swear because it's radio, but uh, but you're like what? Like we do, we just like yeah, you just cannot like comprehend that. And that's what we kind of talked about, you know, together. And I was like, because I've done a couple of these radio shows where we've talked about these types of things and talked about this the psychology about it, and it's it's pretty crazy on what some of these, you know, what they you know they thrive and crave. It's very, very disturbing.

FBI Profiling Room And Investigation Tools

SPEAKER_01 11:06

It is, it's really disturbing. And um, one of actually one of my favorite rooms in the exhibition is the kind of FBI investigation recreation room. Um, as a journalist, I I love being in there because I know that that's when the FBI in the 70s, that's when they first started investigating serial killers and they started studying the psychotic the psychology of the serial killers as well. So it was like law enforcement and psychologists were working together to solve these crimes and figure out the motives, like what's going on here. So um, I love that room. That's my favorite room. It's also probably one of the least uh graphic rooms, but um, the way that that room is recreated, I I love that. And and it gives us a clue into, you know, back back in the 70s, I feel like people were a lot more naive about things. I think we're a lot more aware now for the most part, at least I hope we are. Right. But um, but yeah, but no, it's it's really interesting to see, you know, kind of like how they are putting their evidence together to solve these crimes. You know, we didn't have the technology then that we have today.

Mario 12:13

It's crazy because you look and there's like the three-desks, you know, the typewriters, the whole nine yards, the telephones. It really does, it was really done well, very done well, giving you that opportunity for a lot of the younger generation that don't really have an eye any clue what that even would look like back in the day. Just really well done. And as you start to immerse yourself in through the exhibit hall, um you you do see some of the you know the Gary's, you know, Gary's, you know, his stuff, but really going back, and then you walk into the Ted Bundy room and having to see his Beatle, and um I have another another great story that I'll share with you. Um one of the program directors that I worked with um at uh the the the station that he who retired from, uh he saw this young man, they were at Lake Sammamish when he was uh they were getting ice cream and they were making fun of Ted Bundy because uh they thought it was really weird that a man in shorts and a sling and and and looked like he needed assistance was standing by the bathroom. So the guys were kind of like, oh, that's really strange that this guy's you know standing over there. They were gonna go up to him and kind of tease him. And that's when they got he got the two the two ladies from Lake Sammamish. They turned around to look to see if Gary was still there or uh Ted was still there. By the time they looked, he had moved on, but he still to this day says he has dreams that he wish they would have like teased him to to uh defer him away from those two ladies that he eventually abducted. Yes, a very interesting story that he he did share that story. It's um it's in a documentary about Ted, and it goes back and he he sits and talks about it. But I remember sitting down and having a conversation in his office as you know, because he was a program director for this radio show uh back in the day, and we were just talking about that. I was like, he goes, To this day, Mario, I mean, I still wish we would have like teased him to kind of like defer him away from from the area.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

But um my gosh, that's so heavy.

Mario 14:25

It is heavy. And what's interesting about the whole the the bug, you know, you see his bug there, uh his V, you know, his wagon bug. The room is very interesting. You get a lot from us from the rooms that you kind of go through. And it if you are of the faint of heart, this is not an exhibit for you. But if you're into into like the true crime and you're from if you're trying, you don't have to be from the Pacific Northwest because there's a ton of other murders or that that are in through the exhibit that I even I learned about that weren't from the United States, that were from Russia, and you know, that were from different areas around the globe. And that's what's so interesting. You definitely learn different pieces, and you learn about like cannibalism and you learn about what these other individuals are doing. The other guy that dug all those through his home, and it's like that exhibit. Just very interesting to me on how you you're just you're learning throughout the the 90 to 120 minute, you know, curated tour.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Yes, absolutely. And I'm so glad you said that earlier, Mario, about you know, bringing your phone, make sure it's charged. And I say make make yourself an appointment, schedule a time to go so that you can have the time to really walk through, give yourself a full 90 minutes so that you can experience all of it. Because and what I noticed too is that no two serial killers are the

VR Crime Solving And Practical Advice

SPEAKER_01 15:49

same. It's like there are they all have their quirks, you know, their way that they like to do things, and it's just it's weird and it's just it's really, really scary. And honestly, I mean, I working on that exhibition in both New York and Seattle, I walk away just honestly saying, Thank you, God, that I have my mental health. Please let me keep it, you know, because these people, I always say the one thing that they have in common with us is that we're all human, and you never know what led to them behaving that way. Is it stuff that happened in their childhood? Or did they just snap one day? Did they go over the edge? And I think it's important for us uh to always keep an eye on our mental health and to check on our friends. If so, if we feel like one of our friends is heading towards the edge, it's like, hey, wait, are you okay? Do you need anything? Do you need a cookie? What's going on? You know, check on your friends and and take good care of yourself because you just never know like what can make you snap, which is a scary thought.

Mario 16:48

As you uh talk about that, this is a age 14 and up. Uh, there is some graphical material that is in there, especially in Ted uh not in but in Dahmer's room in his apartment. Yes, yeah. I I will say this. What I I will tell you is if you're going through the entire when you come out and you're done, what I love loved about what I thought was really well done, as you're coming up the escalator and you're listening to the last track, it's giving you resources if something happened, if you were triggered by anything, uh and I thought that was super helpful. We'll have some of those links also posted. But let me tell you what, if you are into this, this is something that you should be doing. If you're looking for a summer blockbuster, because let me let me tell you this right now. There is so much content right now, there are speakeasies that are trying to do what you guys are doing right now, right? Across around everywhere around here, like Tacoma's trying to do something, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Wait, a serial killer or true crime speakeasy?

Mario 17:51

Like a true yeah, like I so I'm telling you, everyone's trying to, you know, jump on the on the gravy train. What's interesting is when I drove and how I came across this whole situation was I was driving from Capitol Hill to get tacos. Uh they had opened this brand new taco uh taco up on Capitol Hill that kind of looks like Gordo Tacos in uh Vegas. And so not as intricate, but um because we're from the Pacific Northwest, I was like, uh, it's kind of like you know, kind of curated to make sure you got your your basics. So I'm like coming down the hill and I'm like, all right. I see Paramount and I'm like, oh, what's going on at the old uh Barnes and Noble? I was like, oh wow, there's a really long line. What are they doing? Oh, and I briefly saw it and I just kept, I was like, wow, that is a long line. And I've drove driven by a couple times and I was like, dang, these people are serious about it. And I always for me when I do shows in regards to like true crime, most people are reading verbatim, what's going on or what had happened or in the transcripts, which I terribly I I I get so mad about. I don't know why. It just it's triggering to me. I was like, why are you gonna do a podcast about someone's case and you you don't have it's just them tell re recreating the story. So it's like I don't know. I I find I I I I I've I'm I'm I I struggle with it. From for me, I struggle with it. But in this case, you you go through this museum, this this exhibit, and you're you're really you're really learning a lot. If you were to say out of everything that's got that goes on in the the experience, what what is your favorite part? Because I know we still haven't talked about one piece that I want to talk about still.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Um, well, I also well, I mean, I was gonna ask you, Mario, if you got to do the VR.

Mario 19:50

I I did, and here's my tip if if you're gonna go through this, which I recommend people do, this is like something, especially if you're from the Pacific Northwest and you're into true crime, you gotta go do this. Get the do the VR experience. But here's what I'll tell you go early, go often. I'm and I you but do the VR experience first before you go through the curated uh through you go through. That's what I do. So go through that first. Cause it it's kind of that's a good tip. What I kind of got out of that, I was like, cool. I'm like, I got the VR experience, I'm doing it. It is that is that was my favorite piece. I loved going in and pretending like I was a part of the investigation.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Yeah, you're you you're solving the crime.

Mario 20:37

Yeah, you really truly yeah, and it was so well done. And it's like I had my glasses on, I didn't have like it wasn't cumbersome. The audio piece was great. Um, I felt there was one part where I tripped, but that's because I thought uh the you know, the spatial uh I thought it was weird. It is a little a little but hey, I mean, but after that it was it was fine, everything is really done well in regards to making sure you feel safe, um and they and they instruct you right through everything else. But have did you have an opportunity to do the the uh VR experience while you were here?

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yes, I did, and I I also love getting to, you know, pretend that I'm the investigator, pretend that I'm Olivia Benson, and I'm solving the crime, I'm solving the case. That's that's actually one of the one of the other things that really sets Exhibition Hub and our immersive experiences apart is that VR. Um, I've also done the VR at some of our other exhibitions. I did the one at Dino's Alive, that was really cool. I felt like I was like back in prehistoric times. Like the the um the VR experience. I'm not a gamer, sure, so I've never really done VR before, but the VR is super, super cool. Definitely, and I think that's a great tip, Mario, to go through do the VR first if you can.

Mario 21:56

Now, was the Seattle VR? VR experience the same as the New York VR experience, or were they different?

SPEAKER_01 22:04

I think they're pretty similar, if not the same. Yes. Like it's the same kind of idea where you're stepping into the role of the investigator. Sure. I know when we were in New York doing press, um, one of the news reporters was like, wait, and the VR experience, am I am I gonna be getting hunted down by a serial killer? I'm like, no, no, no, no. That's that's that's a little too much. You don't have to worry about that. You can be the investigator, you're solving the crime, you're helping.

Mario 22:32

Yeah, yeah. It's funny because I was putting on, I was like, wait, what? I'm like, I'm gonna be solving the crime. I was like, okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

You know, yeah, you're like, wait, I'm not about am I about to be killed?

Mario 22:40

Like, is someone gonna grab me? Like, and not a haunted house. This is not that. Um, no one's coming out to get this is not an I got you moment by any means. Well done uh on that piece. It's uh that would be the one tip if I I if I could give you one. Um go do this, but get the VR experience. I was talking to my sister too, and um we were j we had a we kind of did a ton of tongue-in-cheek joke because she was in Iceland and she went to a museum in Iceland where it was a penis museum. And so because she went to the penis museum, I was like, hey girl, you gotta go, you gotta go to the experience. And because you know, Dahmer's house was Dahmer's house, you know, I had a we we joked about it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You see some you see some yeah, there there's there is some stuff in there that is very graphical, but that was our joke. Uh that was my joke to my sister, and I was like, hey, and and you know, our step her mom was like, I'm not going to the museum or I'm not gonna go in the exhibition. I was like, take dad, he'll go with you. But it it's it's interesting because I think you you you you you learn about these cases, you you hear them through

Seattle Crime History And Dark Folklore

Mario 23:51

podcasts, or you see them in, you know, on a on a on a streaming platform of some flavor, you know, the Ted Bundy's, you know, the missing tapes or whatever they have in the Dahmer. I couldn't even watch Dahmer's documentary, whatever that was. I started it, and as soon as whatever was going on with the TV and the chainsaw or whatever, I was out. Could not do it.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Yeah, I couldn't. I tried to watch the the Ryan Murphy production on Dahmer, where Dahmer was played by Evan Peters. Uh-huh. And that's kind of trippy too, like in Hollywood when they're sometimes kind of um cast these sort of heart throbs to play these horrible serial killers. I'm like, dude, that's kind of like that's kind of messing with my mind a little bit. But I can only get through about three episodes because it was, it, it was really real. Like they um Nisi Nash played one of Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors who called 911 and tried to tell the police, but the police didn't listen to her. Uh, they at the end of the episode, they played the real 911 call, and it was like Nisi Nash nailed it. I think she won an Emmy for that. Well deserved, because they really, really nailed it. And I feel like um in the exhibition as well, uh Jeffrey Dahmer's apartment. Um, it's really it is creepy, but they they really nail it. They really, it's it's pretty um pretty authentic.

Mario 25:15

Yeah, it's interesting because like things that you and I would look at as normal objects, freezers, refrigerators, things of that nature. Yeah. To look in these, I don't want to give too much away, but to see what it was placed in these items in the in his apartment is is shocking. You know, the you know, the barrels, you know, of it just it it it's a different take. And I don't know how he got away with how much he got away with with because of the smells and things of that nature in a small apartment. It's just interesting to me. Just different times, different, different times, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:50

It was a different time. And you know, I feel like that's something, I mean, nothing against law enforcement, you know, they do the uh they do their jobs well, but I feel like we see that in some of these true crime documentaries where people report things and the police don't take it seriously. You know, it's just it's it's hard. It's it's really hard.

Mario 26:08

I I think that um some of the stuff that you you'll see when you go through the exhibit, um, especially if you're from the Pacific Northwest, I mean there are tons of tales. There's you know, different curated uh there's a lady that does a pot uh does a a walk where she goes through the different areas like almost like a haunted tour where she'll go through the different neighborhoods. I find it very inter very I don't know, I I don't know, I have my own take on it, but it's like on the curated tour, she talks about this is where Ted was at that, you know, where this person was at. It's just interesting to me. And when you're really learning about the in when you're going through the exhibit hall and you're you're listening to the tracks and you're learning about these different serial killers, you're not just learning about one, two, three. There are 12, is that right? 12 12 different serial you're you're you're getting you're not just learning about like it's it's so crazy to me because like I have to take a deep breath because I was like, wow, I'm learning about some stuff I've I didn't even know. You know, even about Ted and going through uh Ted's piece, Dahmer's thing, which you know, and even the BK, you know, the BKK I I I I mess it up all the time, but the non torture kill. Yeah. Oh it just i interesting but even watching people walk through the the through the exhibit, I was trying to like get my surroundings of there was all types of individuals in there. It it wasn't like you know, there were there were foreign people that were from you know out of town that were there and um learning about you know these different cases. If I had to go back again, which I I probably will, um I would say I would probably spend more time trying not to rush through the tracks. And sometimes I think they're I I just was on autopilot and just going through to to kind of get a better sense of everything and and just kind of watch the surroundings and spend more time at there are places I felt like I missed. There's a a portion where you can sit down and watch you know talk about cannibalism. There's I believe there was one individual who put out an ad in regards to looking for someone to feast off of, I believe, where the guy off of cannibalism in in the in the exhibit hall. I don't know if you remember that piece.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Oh my gosh, I don't remember that.

Mario 28:45

That is where he was just one where the guy sent like uh signed a consent form. Yeah, and it was just he was just the one, you know, it was just one guy who died. And it had the whole like what he was going to eat off the body, what places weren't good. It just it you you really do get behind, you really do see the mind. And what's interesting to me, yeah, behind the mind, but what's also really great is the investigative piece where you're able to take these large looking look they look like file folders, and you get to open up and you get to look at the investigation files, which is very helpful, and I think done really well to kind of give you a quick snapshot and to keep you moving through the the the experience.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Mario 29:39

So if I didn't mean to cut you up. Go ahead. No, no, no, you go ahead. Uh you no, you go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

No, no, no, you go.

Mario 29:48

No, you go, no, you go. Um done well. I I will say also, if you don't, if if you do have a weak stomach, take a friend with you. You're still gonna you're still gonna learn something. I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

I was gonna say that, Mario. Um, buddy system. Yeah, definitely buddy system. And I know while I was in Seattle, I did an interview with um, I believe she, oh gosh, I can't remember which college, but I did an interview with one of the student papers, and I was really harping on her as a college girl. Like, you know, a lot of these guys, you know, they like to kill young girls. You gotta really be careful, you gotta really be aware. And I know for me sometimes, especially when I was younger, I was a lot more trusting. And you just gotta be careful. Like, you just never know when when you're stepping. I'm sure when Jeffrey Dahmer brought men back to his apartment, they were not expecting to open that fridge and see what's in that fridge, sure, or see that tub, you know. So I think it's really important

Tickets Details And Final Push

SPEAKER_01 30:50

for those for people with you know, younger kids, kids in college, you know, let them see this. You know, it's like we don't want you to be paranoid, but definitely be aware and keep your antennas up because you never know.

Mario 31:04

It's interesting when you say that because you know, I the first thing I thought of was my daughter who is 18 and you know gonna go off to college. And it's like, wow, you cannot trust anybody. Uh especially someone uh of any of these statures, of any of these individuals who are, you know, who allured young victims, including young k women and children. Yeah. Uh it's just you just don't know who your neighbor might be. Uh I mean, lock your doors, everyone. Make sure you got six to six. We we definitely live in a different world, and the technology, and I always say this now, is like, I don't think that we have as many serial killers as we once did.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Yeah. I think that there's the technology now, you can catch people a lot quicker. You know, I don't think I think a lot of these people they were able to just keep going and going and going because they weren't getting caught. But I think these days, you know, um the technology has helped a lot where we can catch these people um a lot sooner because you know, and we don't want these people to be on a rampage.

Mario 32:13

Right. And it and it's interesting because we we let's go back to the piece about Gary Ridgway and where he talked about he looked for a certain type of individual who thought would not be cared if if they were gone, in regards to ladies of the street or even struggling young women who were in troubled homes, things of that nature. You know, it's it it it is it is interesting to get behind the mind and to understand where they were going in regards to what was Gary really looking for, what was Ted looking for, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Yeah, to prey on the weak. Like what part of your brain or what chip is missing to make you want to to make especially a man want to prey on the weak? You know, a man should want to protect women and children. So, what's going on that you actually want to kill women and children, torture women and children? Like, what is that?

Mario 33:10

It it is uh we definitely live in a in a I I would say different time than back in those days where that technology hadn't caught back up. But even looking at the Pacific Northwest, where Gary and Ted were doing some of their killings, in regards to Gary I I I I shake my head and I'm like, think about this. There was a ton of victims, and there are still a ton of victims that haven't been identified, and he can't even he doesn't remember, and obviously the topography has changed dramatically over 30 years uh in regards to when he was doing a lot of these murders uh and killings and things of that nature. But I will say this even when I played golf, where when I was I must have been young, I was probably like four or five. We were coming back from a Mexican restaurant in the Kent Valley, going over the Green River Bridge when we saw the first body being pulled out.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Oh my god.

Mario 34:17

So I I I I was covered, there was helicopters, things of that nature, but I the body was covered. I had no idea at a young age, but I still remember being in like elementary school, and they said another body was found by the, you know, another body was, you know, found. We think it's connected to the Green River Killer. Being a child in the Pacific Northwest, in the Kent, Des Moines area where he was doing a lot of these killings, had you terrified. But I had no idea, and I think a lot of people had no idea what who he was victimizing. I had no idea. I was thinking he was just killing random people. You know, to go back, I didn't know that he was looking for a certain type of individual, which was a young woman who may have been a prostitute or someone in a troubled home, where he would pick them up and and and dispose of them and kill them or whatever the case may be. And to go through the through what you learn about Gary, Ted, all these different uh you know, serial killers, you learn a lot. You learn the exhibit has a lot of immersive uh pieces where you can look, even the house, that the model home that's there. I mean, there's so much to go through.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

So much. Anybody who's interested in psychology, criminology, true crime, any of that, you know, this is something that that you will really enjoy and really find um educational. You know, we call it, I call it edutainment because it's you know, it's not like Hollywood, we're not glamorizing any of this, you know. And I I I really hope that that comes across, that we're certainly not trying to glamorize these killers. I think Hollywood does that often. I think really we're trying to raise awareness and um and just get get inside the mind, you know, and try to just understand this a little bit better, even though, you know, thank thank God that we really can't understand it, because that would mean you're in a dark place if you can understand that.

Mario 36:19

I mean, it's really true. You you walk out and you're like, wow. Okay, okay. I'm uh yes. You you mean you may have your quarks and things of that nature, but it's really uh it almost felt like a reality check in regards to having learning about these different serial killers and and really getting educated because there are some that aren't talked about in today in today's uh you know today's glamorous stream of you know Netflix of whatever the docky series is on Ted Bundy or whoever the case may be, Dahmer or you know, you know, any of these individuals, you just don't you're not getting you're getting like the high profile cases. And I think all all the cases that you guys talk about are pretty well documented. Um I just don't think who knows what you know who knows what the the producers at Netflix or who any of these streaming platforms may look at, but well done in regards to that. Let me ask you this. Um, New York or Seattle, what did you uh what was your uh how did the layout feel to you? Did it feel the same when you went through?

SPEAKER_01 37:29

I I felt like in New York it's a little bit smaller. I felt like it was more spread out and a little more vast in Seattle. Um, so I definitely like the layout in Seattle. Um, and I like that the in Seattle where it's like a mall, right? It was so interesting. I didn't even, you know, I'm a shopper, Mario. I didn't even realize it was inside of a mall. So I'm like looking for it. I see everyone with their Nordstrom bags and Zara bags, and I'm like, oh well, I want to go shopping. No, wait, no, no, no, I gotta go, I gotta get over here. Um, but I really love the space a lot, and um and it's it's a great summertime activity. It's really nice and air conditioned.

Mario 38:09

It is, especially right now.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

That's one of the that's definitely one of the um one of the selling points in New York because New York has, I don't know, I don't know if Seattle gets as humid as New York does in the summertime.

Mario 38:21

Not as humid, uh, I would say, but it it is definitely it it's been warm lately in uh here.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Yeah, when I was there one month ago, the weather was lovely. I was so scared it was going to be rainy. Um, and I live in LA, so I'm I don't even know what rain is anymore. Sure. But the few days I was there, it was beautiful. I like I honestly was like, I want to move here. Not just not blowing smoke up your rear. Okay. Seriously, I love Seattle. If I got I would I'd move there in a heartbeat. I loved it there.

Mario 38:48

What what else did you do besides? I I gotta ask you, what else did you do when it while you were here? Did you go, did you do any shopping at Nordstroms? Did you go to the waterfront? What were like what give me something? I rode the ferry, which was cute.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

And then I okay, so I like I have a bestie that lives there, and I was like, I want to go see Mount Rainier. She's like, girl, that's kind of like a big deal. She's like, I know a spot where we could just see it, like yeah, off in the distance, and it looked like I never seen it, it looked like the back of money, yeah. And I was just like, oh my god, that looks like the back of a dollar bill, and it was really beautiful to see. Yeah, and yeah, I just I really love it. And while I was there too, there were a lot of soccer games going on. So I really loved the the energy of the city, and yeah, I I liked it, you know. Every time I leave LA, it's it's nice to get out of LA and just remember that you know we have we have a lot of really cool cities here in the United States of America.

Mario 39:46

I I will say I I I was in a previous last week's uh radio show we did, um, we were talking about AI, and I I felt like Seattle showed out during the FIFA World Cup. I felt like the city was on display, yeah, well done, all the spaces were activated. Um I I couldn't be more proud of the city. It just looked really, really good. Now, did you what what was uh what was your favorite meal while you were here? I always like to ask these kind of questions because for people who don't, you know what I mean, like we don't get always asked these questions, but it's it's like sometimes I like to ask them like, hey, what since you were in town, what was your favorite thing that you had?

SPEAKER_01 40:23

You know what? My friend and I went to this restaurant, I think it was called the Pink Door.

Mario 40:27

Ooh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Um, and yeah, we went there and it was so funny because we walked right past it. She's like, Where is it? Where is it? Because it's kind of like in this little alley, and I saw this kind of like salmon door, salmon pink door. I'm like, is this it? Is this the pink door? And then it's like, oh yeah, like this is the pink door. But that was really yummy, and the food was good. Yeah, um, and then I went and watched the soccer game at a kind of a pub that wasn't too far from um Pacific Place.

Mario 40:56

Oh, you were over by Pacific Place. Okay, yes. Um I'm trying to remember where I I thought you were you were went down the street from the pink uh door.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Yeah, right across the street. There's that that bar there. It was too crowded.

Mario 41:08

Now Kells Kells used to be. Here's here's a fun here's a fun fact for you. Kell's used to be a mortuary.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

Wow.

Mario 41:18

Yes. Used to be a mortuary.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

That whole like I thought I smelled something in there.

Mario 41:23

Yeah, you yeah I love it. Seriously, it used to be a mortuary. Um, and um uh back in the day, Buttersworth, which was the uh the mortuary home, because it was during the Spanish flu and during the gold rush time, people were dying and they could not pick up the bodies fast enough. So they were giving they were they put a note out in an ad saying, we will pay you $25 if you bring the bodies to us. Yes. And during the gold rush days, here's the fun fact for you Before the water, before the the waterfront was done redone, obviously over the years, there were pillars down at the waterfront, and people, let's say you came back uh from the gold rush in Alaska, and they says, Oh my gosh, Lecendra made it back from the gold rush. She made $1,500, found $1,500 in gold. Congratulations. She's staying at the you know, the Paramount Hotel, blah, blah, blah. So people like you would be sitting there at the bar having a drink or doing your thing. People would come to find you. They would kill you, take you, get you drunk, drown you out in the Elliott Bay, take your money, and then get another $25. Yeah, isn't that crazy? This city, man.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

You know what? That's why it pays to be uh obese, because then no one could could carry you back in the city.

Mario 42:48

I'm telling you, man, it was quite interesting times. And and I will say this too. A lot of the backbone of the Pacific Northwest, uh, and I know a lot of people don't talk about this, but uh, there was a lot of ladies of the night who were working uh in the Pacific in Seattle, and they really had yeah, had really built up the city. Uh, there were some very wealthy women that lived in the city who really contributed to the economy in regards to using their money to build the city up. So um Wow. Very interesting times, you know. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

God bless the ladies of the night.

Mario 43:20

You know, you know, everyone's got to work, I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Yeah, and and we all have skills, and if that's your skill, go for it, girl.

Mario 43:27

I mean, and and and we're talking like that during the Spanish flu times back in the 1900s, but it just an interesting fun fact that I I'd shared with you since you were in the in that core down there. But what what an interesting did you have fun at the market as well? Did you guys get a ch look at the market while you were there?

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Yes, walk through the market. Yeah, it was really good. Um, I I really loved it. I just love the energy. I mean, of course, I was there. It didn't rain while I was there, and I've heard the winters can be. Oh, it's something else.

Mario 43:54

Yeah, it's not it's something else in the winter.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

Yeah, but um, but yeah, the weather was lovely. Um, I got to see Where I stayed, I stayed at an Airbnb that was right next to a lake. Like was it called Lake Norman? No.

Mario 44:08

Uh Green Lake.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

No. I can't remember. I'm honestly I can't remember. Like I have to remember so many things right now. A lot of stuff falls out. But um, but it was so it was just so pretty. It was just beautiful. Like I had a beautiful view and the water. I forgot that Seattle and Washington is right by the water. I forgot that. So it was nice. It was just it was just really nice. And you know, I live in LA. LA's LA's great, but it's really dirty and gross. So every now and then it's nice to get out and see something else.

Mario 44:38

So our guest, Le Kendra Tooks, who's been hanging out with us, uh, Mind of a Serial Killer, the exhibition experience, uh, is at the Pacific Place Mall, as most of us like to call it, but it's at Pacific Place, 600 Pine Street, if you're looking for it, not hard to find by any means. You can get your tickets. Uh, we'll have links provided on our podcast. And remember, if you have someone who may be underage of the age of 17, they're gonna need adults' consent uh to go through through, and you'll sign some uh edocs when you get there. It's super easy. Um you guys even have uh like a um an AI photo booth as well. Um there's a ton of stuff to do when you when you're leaving, but what a what a fantastic time to be able to go through, learn. As you I I love what you said. You like it's you're learning and you're being entertained at the same time, really.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Edutainment.

Mario 45:36

Edutainment, and it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

I'll let you steal it. You can steal it, Mario.

Mario 45:39

I I appreciate that. You know, and next time you're in town, uh, I will say you've got to go to um if if you hadn't gone, there's uh I'm spacing out. I'll send it to you. But it's this it is a great fish uh uh fish place. You'll you'll you'll love it. Uh one of my other favorite places is Duke's, but yeah, you'll have to go and check it out. It's on Lake Union. Yeah, it's always always a fun time. Great view of the lake, seaplanes coming in, you see people hanging out on the water. It's it's a it's a fantastic time. So anything uh before we uh head out, if someone was to go through this, what would you tell someone who may be skeptic, be a skeptic and say, I don't know if I'm really, really interested in I'm I'm interested in true crime, but I'm what would push them over the edge, you think, to make them want to come and hang out?

SPEAKER_01 46:29

I think just how how real, how raw, you know, we've all seen all the documentaries on and we've all watched Law and Order SVU, we've all watched Discovery ID. I think this just takes it a step further. So, and it's just really interesting. It's really interesting. I think everyone should see it, just to just kind of see how some of these people are wired, you know, were they born evil? Did something happen to them? It's just really interesting, and I think all of us are so fascinated by that. So I think anybody, because right now everybody's into true crime, everybody's into true crime. So I think there's definitely something for everybody there.

Mario 47:08

And on your podcast, do you talk a lot about true crime? Or what what would you think about it?

SPEAKER_01 47:11

I do not actually I talk about um I watch a lot of Bravo and reality television. I talk about the real housewives, um, I talk about myself and my dating life, uh, which is often comedic. Uh, and um I just like to have fun. I always say my podcast is for the three Gs of God, girls, and gays. Um, but I hope that um I one of my claims to fame that I'm really proud of is I hope that my podcast is always entertaining, even if you have no idea what I'm talking about. I always like to say it's okay if you didn't watch the episode, I'll make you feel like you were there. So, and and I will say my dad has listened, and my dad's like, you know what? I don't know what you're talking about, but I like it. So that that's my podcast, Tooks Takes.

Mario 48:00

There you go. I I love it. Uh if you're in Seattle, or you're even if you're in New York, I actually was like, man, I should get maybe I need to take a flight to New York and go look at it again.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

Oh, yeah.

Mario 48:10

You know, um, go go check it out. It's it's local. You you you go and you hang out, you get to learn something. And here's what I'll say it's at Pacific Place. There's great parking down at Pacific Place. And I'll let me uh let me fill you in, people. If you haven't been to the core in a while, the parking at Pacific Place is really cheap. It's really it's it's affordable. It's it's it it and then they do value deals and everything. So check it out. It's it's at Pacific Place, you can't miss it. It's outside, so if you remember where Barnes and Normals is, and you're walking up the street like you're gonna go to the Paramount.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

That's right there at the corner.

Mario 48:52

Right there. You you can't miss it. Um you can get your tickets online. We'll have links to where you can buy tickets.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

Mind of a serial killer expo.com slash Seattle, and then tickets are available on uh feverup.com.

Mario 49:08

And make sure you use the hashtag for you cool people. Uh be sure to use a hashtag. And what's cool is as you're walking through the exhibit, you do see the reminders if you're taking social media pictures, pictures for yourself. I took a picture at the crime wall, you know, with my my my aliases, aka super Mario, or um which is cool too. You know, you're gonna have that experience. I will say this I went solo, go with a buddy. Yeah, uh it's it's it's better for pictures, it's great for the immersive piece where you can kind of I think it would be great to be able to talk, and I and I may do that just to go back to go through to have that experience of having a buddy system to kind to kind of like uh share in those uh those experiences. I'd like to thank our guest, Lakendra Tux, for hanging out with us. Go check out her podcast at Tooks Take, on I'm sure on all the podcasting platforms all the podcasting platforms. Now, can they watch you on YouTube too?

SPEAKER_01 50:08

And you can watch it on YouTube. I have new episodes every Wednesday. Every Wednesday is Ken's Day. Whoop whoop.

Mario 50:14

And so we we appreciate your time and we look forward if you don't. I'm telling you, this is an experience you're not gonna want to miss out because it's only here for a limited time. This is not gonna be a staple in the Pacific Northwest, it's not gonna stay in Seattle. It will move. Like I believe the Titanic was which was on the waterfront in Seattle. I I had an opportunity to check that out, it it went away. So if the sense of urgency is now, book your tickets. I'm telling you, you're gonna love it. It's a great outing. Make this, I would say if you went to the World Cup and you did all that stuff, or you just maybe you're just into the thrill of the serial killer stuff or true crime, this is where you need to be. As I like to say, uh as we wrap things up from the Pacific Northwest, I'd like to thank our guest, Lacandra Tux, for hanging out with us. You can find her on our podcast. And remember, be sure to look up at the sky because you never know what you might see. Good night.