A Mining City Story: Amy Lowney - Craniosacral & Massage Therapist, Postpartum Doula

Guest: Amy Lowney, MSN-RN, LMT, CST (Prima Natural Wellness)

Amy pivoted from her work as a hospital labor and delivery nurse, and now offers complementary wellness services to moms and babies in Butte. We’ll talk about her own professional journey, as well as the emerging landscape of holistic providers in the mining city.  

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Transcript

Emily: Welcome to Mother Love Season 4. I'm Emily Freeman, Storytelling Coordinator at HMHB and your new host of the podcast. This season, we're launching a special series, A Mining City Story, co-hosted by Cass Weber, whose motherhood journey we shared with you last season. The series will highlight the work of five labor and delivery nurses in Butte, Montana, who realized that more could be done for moms and babies in their care.

Through individual effort and community collaboration, they were able to expand resources and services for birthing families. Over three years and two pregnancies, Cass benefited from a transformation of Butte's perinatal landscape. This season on the podcast, she and I will speak to these nurses and care providers to learn more about what they did, why they did it, and the impact it had.

Our hope is that their stories might inspire you to seek out or create additional resources that your own community may need in order for families to thrive. I'm Emily, and you're listening to Motherlove. 

Cass: Well, thank you so much for being here. Do you want to introduce yourself so we have your name and your voice connected and let us know kind of what your current titles are that you're most excited to share?

Amy: Thank you both for having me. My name is Amy Lowney. In short, I'm a former registered nurse. And I'm now a licensed massage therapist, craniosacral therapist. I'm actually studying at the moment to become an Ayurvedic postpartum doula. And I have a background also with prenatal yoga and childbirth education.

Cass: All the good mom baby stuff. 

Amy: Yes. I can't get enough. I will forever be learning and a student. 

Cass: I love that. It's good for you and also really good for all the moms and babes in the community. So that's awesome. I love it. 

Emily: Do you want to just sort of give us like in broad strokes, your, your background, your career path, what led you to the person who's sitting here today with these various credentials and areas of expertise? Did you always know you wanted to work with babies and moms? How did you find your way into this work? 

Amy: I'd say my path really started as a nurse. But even before like, you know, back in like high school, it was like, I envisioned being a nurse, you know, and I think some of that was family ideas of what I was going to be doing. And I really, I struggled as a teenager and I knew I wanted to help women, you know, at that time it was like, I think I want to help women in a more natural way and that's all I knew. Life went on, I became a nurse. I was a med surg nurse, I have a background in various different areas, we won't have to go into that, but I did a lot of pediatric nursing up at the hospital and I landed in labor and delivery.

I did know I wanted to work with mothers and babies once I got into nursing school. My rotation in that area was very short and minimal, but I did love the clinic work. And so, as I was going through, like, I really wanted to land a labor and delivery job. I really knew I wanted to do that. I did end up getting my master's in science and nursing education.

And throughout even that, I did a lot of my papers on breastfeeding and I did a lot of research on airports around the United States that actually had access to rooms for women to nurse their babies and things like that. And so it was just kind of this natural evolution. I had my own son, like, in there too, and, of course, that really opens the door to like, wow, birth, wow, babies, wow, mothering. And so that was just naturally where I was at in my life then. And so, yes, I definitely knew I wanted to work with women. And then that transitioned to mothers and babies. 

I had my second baby, I started this new job in labor and delivery, and I was just feeling very not myself. I think that's something a lot of moms experience, you know? You're like, who am I? You know? I was me, and then I had a baby, and then I had another baby and who am I, you know, and I kind of went through this total shift in self and I can't tell you what exactly it was that led me to be like, you're just not in the right place. There was really a series of events. I went to yoga teacher training and was doing a lot of inner work and a lot of meditation and just really coming home to myself again and who I was as a mother. And I was like, I really want to show up for moms in a different way. Like I'm kind of in the wrong place for what my soul calling is. And I do think that's something a lot of people relate to, especially after you have children, you kind of shift an identity a little bit.

And so at that time I was two years into labor and delivery. I had about six years of nursing experience before that. I quit labor and delivery very unexpectedly. It was a big shock to everybody. I haven't had amazing coworkers and amazing manager up there and I didn't know what I was going to do. I went into massage therapy and then I had my second or my third baby, excuse me.

And that child was really what I think led me to where I'm at today, where I work doing a lot of craniosacral therapy, which we'll get into that on moms and babies. So he had a tongue tie. He had a really hard time breastfeeding. I'd done this before. I had the mom thing figured out, right? And those kids come along and they're like, you don't know anything about anything.

And so he taught me a lot. And. I really struggled after that pregnancy. You know, I knew quote unquote what to do, but the tools I had weren't working for him and for me. And I'd say about five months into this big breastfeeding struggle, I ran into a friend and she was like, you should try craniosacral therapy. I was like, I know a little about that. I've been like a couple of years into massage and immediately it changed my life. And I was like, I need to learn this so I can help moms who are going through what I am going through right now. And so that's kind of really where, like what landed me to where I'm at today, and what I do with the moms and babies I work with. 

Cass: Now is probably a good time to explain a little bit. Like what is cranial sacral therapy? How does it work? Like what, for somebody who has never heard of it before, I think that would be a really good way to explain it.

Amy: I used to be like just you know, I'd have a mom call and she's like, I don't really know what this is And I'd be like, okay, let's go ahead and Google it I was like, I'm gonna Google it and I was like, oh my gosh, stop Googling it. So don't Google it. A lot of people I think because they don't know about it, they think it's very woo, which, I'm a little woo, it has some woos, but there are some like very incredible physical benefits. 

So this is how I like to explain Craniosacral therapy, so it's like a little more tangible. Craniosacral therapy is a light touch therapy, and we work on the craniosacral system. And so this is a series of connective tissue membranes and fluid that surround and support the nervous system. It's like the brain, the nerves, the spinal cord. And part of that nervous system is also the fascia. 

Fascia is like a big kind of like trendy term at the moment, but I like to explain it as this full body spider web that we have going on. It's actually, what they're finding, is an extension of the nervous system and it almost responds before like the nerves. So it's like the fascia responds, sends the signal to the nervous system, nervous system sends it to the brain and back and forth. And so the fascia is like this big spider web that runs head to toe, front to back, side to side, and it's within our skin, around muscle groups, around individual muscles, muscle fibers, cells, it goes around our organs, our bones. And so it's this full connective tissue that connects the entire body. So if we think of a spiderweb, you can pull one corner of the spiderweb and the whole thing will shift. Some people have a better time understanding a soccer net. If you pull one side of the soccer net, you're going to see at least a little movement on the opposite end. And so that's how I like to think about the fascia.

And so I get to work with that system. What I do is, so let's say we have that sticky spider web down in the sacrum and we pull that spider web. We can have a pull say up all the way into the jaw, but that's where the symptom is. That actual restriction is down in the pelvis. So my job is to go in using my hands and very gentle touch and help unwind that tissue. I like to think about unwinding as you have a jewelry box of Necklaces. I think we can all relate to that. You know, you have your jewelry box of necklaces and they're all tangled up in a disaster and a mess and we can rip that apart and we're going to have some of those chains, chains that break and that's kind of massage therapy. It gives that inflammation and promotes healing that way. Craniosacral, you go in and you very delicately untangle all of those strands and I do that just with the gentle touch of my hands to help adults, moms, babies all feel a little bit more comfortable within their bodies. 

Cass: Is that why that gentle touch, why it's so effective for infants who are so like, you know, floppy and fragile.

Amy: Yes, and they do so good with it. Us as adults, we have like those layers of stress, right? You have like. Childhood and you have your teenage years and you have your college years and like any stress that's we have physical injuries within that, you know, compiled into a left shoulder pain that's always there, you know, and it can take time to release that. Babies have in utero and birth and shortly after birth and so it's gentle that their nervous systems can handle it and It's also, they're just so like pliable because they don't have all of the life stuff that you and I have.

Emily: So many questions. 

Cass: I could see them in your eyes. 

Emily: How did you two meet? How and when did your paths cross? I'll put this to you, Cass. 

Cass: So we actually just met when I was pregnant with Isla and I was on the journey to have a VBAC, vaginal birth after cesarean section, and really doing my own deep dives into how to physiologically prepare for that as much as I could.

And so I was doing physical therapy with Ashley Wold and Dorothy as a doula and doing Spinning Babies. And there's part of Spinning Babies that is like fascia related. So that's like what I think about for sure. They call it the jiggle. If you've ever done it, it does feel really good. And like, you can feel that fascia like relax and release. So that's what I was thinking of when you were talking about that. And so, I was doing Webster-certified chiropractic work to try and just get my pelvic area as aligned as possible, and then also adding in massage therapy. So I got to do a prenatal massage with Amy and. sink in to the amazing baby belly pillow that she has that lets moms be on their stomachs while they get massage and do that extra level of tension release and muscle release. I've always loved massage and needed it, but man, that perinatal, like prenatal massage is magic. 

Amy: Thank you for saying that, because I do just like, I love it. And it's like, the feel good feels good, but there's also so many benefits. Of course, I love my work, and so I believe in my work, but there is so many, like deep benefits to the prenatal massage and that tissue work and helping the body, you know, come into a better alignment, releasing that tension that might be preventing it from being in alignment and just creating space for both you as the mom and then create space for baby as well. So, yes. 

Emily: Can you talk about a specific, any specific client that comes to mind who you think really benefited from their work with you in a really noticeable, tangible way or kind of reported back to you afterwards?

Amy: I was thinking about this before and I was like, how do I pick just one? It is so hard. 

Emily: Or maybe someone who came in skeptical or had a skeptical partner, you know, like, and then kind of was transformed. 
Amy: We kind of all have our own line in the sand that we draw, and that's different for everybody and so I kind of like to always establish like well what is your goal? Because some parents’ goals, they're like, I want to release this tension so we don't have issues with mouth breathing later in life and we have proper movement of the tongue and we, you know, all these things. And then we have the mom that's like, I just need my baby to take a bottle or I just need my baby to stop projectile vomiting across the room. I just need my baby to like to sleep a little bit longer than 30 minutes at a time. And so I think every session is profound if we can get to that goal, but I just had a mom a couple weeks ago, and the work I do, I, you know, work with baby and I work with mom and whoever else is in the room, but I always send them home with their own stretches and their own massages to do because, like, I have this little window and babies melt into me, but like, they want your touch. They’re connected with you. They grew from like your tissues. Like your touch is truly what they need. 

But I had this mom and she was just like, I know something's wrong. My baby has this reflux baby's projectile, like spitting up across the room. She's like, my dog got it on him. And he was like across the room, like beyond the coffee table. You know, and she's like, we were given medication. I just don't feel right. You know, her mom intuition was like screaming this, something else is wrong. So I worked on the baby, had a great session, gave mom one stretch to do every day. And she texted me the next week and was like, we haven't had reflux. At all. We haven't spit up at all, you know, so there's those little moments of like, Yay. 

Emily: So that was something she made her baby do, essentially. 

Amy: Yes. So it's kind of like this little banana stretch. So they're kind of in this like banana posture where they're scrunched up on one side and she's just like Takes that banana and stretches it the other way and so with that you release I mean there's release in the the jaw the neck the diaphragm and I could probably share so many others, but we don't have all day. 

I have one mom that I worked on, she had had a pretty traumatic birth and she has given me permission to share this. I obviously wouldn't ever share her name or anything. She said I could share her story, but she had a pretty traumatic birth and her baby was really having a hard time and our babies are often little mirrors of us. And so, you know, intuitively I'll work on baby and then a lot of times I also work on mom because there's that mother baby dyad and she gets on the table and she just starts, you know, bawling and I'm working on her. And so the nervous system really wants to find resolution. And so when she can finally talk about it, the nervous system's like, ah, we're able to talk about this and find some of this resolution we've been needing.

And she really felt like she did not give birth because she had a Cesarean. And I just hold the space, you know, and she just processes and we work on the tissues where she's holding some of that tension. And by the end of it, it was just like, wow, thank you. I can finally like, see, like, I'm really powerful. My body is so strong. Like I labored and I actually gave birth to my baby through my belly. I'm a great mom for choosing that for myself. And like, it didn't go the way I wanted. And she came to all these like resolutions on her own, and it's just like that working with the tissue of the body and the nervous system with the, you know, craniosacral rhythm that you can kind of help unlock some, unleash some blocks that are preventing the nervous system from like, maybe truly seeing what is there, and so that one was a really powerful one just to watch her and her baby just kind of like the nervous system settle so she could see a little clear of like how powerful she really is even though things didn't go according to her birth plan, so that's always been a really big story. And she just came a few weeks ago and just got a little checkup with her and her baby and they're both doing really well. 

Cass: Touch can be such a powerful tool for emotional processing. Absolutely. And even just space holding. 

Emily: Well, and as a mom, you're, you know, you get so touched out sometimes. You know, it's like other, other little humans are touching you in a way that's drawing your energy away. And so that idea of sort of like someone empowering you through touch, rather than depleting you through touch. 

Amy: Yeah. 

Emily: Do you ever, so you made the transition from working in a, you know, in a more sort of conventional medical setting with moms and babies to this more kind of like alternative modalities or whatever. Do you ever talk to people who are interested in making a similar jump or what advice would you give to someone who is, you know, maybe really passionate about this space and about this demographic, but wanted to work in a different way? What would be the first step for someone looking to kind of move more towards the work, kind of work you're doing? 

Amy: I love that question because I actually get a lot, you know, nurses are, they work so hard. Oh my gosh. They're amazing. But I do get that question a lot and it's not necessarily like I want to work the way you work. It's just like I want to transition into something else and I don't know what to do. I just feel like probably my biggest advice is like give yourself permission to shift in your life, you know. It's okay to want to do something different and just because you switch from a nursing career to something else does not mean you're no longer a nurse. I still use my nursing background and it serves me every single day. I'm so grateful for my background. 

But I'd say the first step is to just really lean into that trust in yourself that where you want to go, what that little voice inside of your head is saying is valuable and it's okay to let go of the expectations that everybody else has on you around where you want to go, because I think that's our biggest burden as mothers, you know, and our jobs and our life and our personal body images, everything. It's like these external pressures of who we should be and what we should do and how we should act. And sometimes we just want to be us. And so I think that little voice inside is like that first step and as scary as it can be, just take those little steps to leaning into it and leaning into the fear and trusting it.

Cass: Such a big leap to make that sort of transition, especially if you did it abruptly and then dove in. And having been there, I understand all of the different trials and tribulations that you go through as a small business owner. And did you have any help or guidance, like, navigating that space for the first time?

Amy: It's a whole new world. In the beginning, no. I just remember talking to my nurse manager about something unrelated and was like, I'm going to give you my 12 weeks and I don't have a plan. And I think that kind of forced me to just step off the cliff to just realize that there was steps there all along, you know?

I didn't have a whole lot of guidance other than that little inner wisdom that I talked about. And that can be something really hard to lean into and trust. Some people it's God, some people it's universe, some, you know, whatever that is, just leaning into that trust that everything's going to be okay.

And then obviously as I've gone through business. I've hired mentors and coaches and, you know, whether it's health, life, business, I kind of always have somebody to lean on and ask, like a professional to ask questions to or offload something or get advice. Other business owners who've gone through similar things are just a good friend to be able to talk to.

Emily: Which is like an interesting parallel to mothering, right? Like the more you can kind of create a network and ask for help and lean on people and you know, this idea that we, we have to be able to do it all on our own, really well, in isolation, you know. 

Amy: It’s often in our society looked down upon.

Cass: That kind of, I think, leads smoothly into some of your new work. around becoming a, I'm going to pronounce it wrong, Ayurvedic. 

Amy: Ayurvedic.

Cass: Ayurvedic doula, a postpartum doula. And I think that's so interesting to really focus on the postpartum period as a doula. And in that work, because we all, I think those of us who know about doulas do often think more about birth doulas. And those of us who've been moms know how hard that postpartum period is. How few supports are built into our society for that period. So how does that work? How's that going for you? Like, what are you diving into? What do you find interesting there? 

Amy: So much. My gosh. Yeah. So again, my lifelong student in me and like, nerdy nurse. I will always be learning. So I do have a background as a birth doula. I've attended some like close friends and families births. I would have loved to be at their side through that big transition, small children, my own business, it's really hard. We also have some wonderful doulas in town.

I'm excited for the time that we have some more, but as these years post COVID have gone on, I really was just like, where do I want to support moms more? And through the work that I do with the craniosacral therapy, I have this little couch, you know, the little couch that you walk in. And so this little couch, and then I have my like treatment room right off of it, and when I'm working with these moms, we often sit down on the couch. It's like, okay, tell me what brought you here. Okay. Well, tell me about your birth. Okay. Well, how's everything going at home? And the tears that flow are just heart-wrenching because I mean, they're going through really tough times. 

You know, you come to me because you're having troubles, your baby's having colic or gassiness, not sleeping, you're overwhelmed, but something that's, you know, consistently there is like this overwhelm and challenge navigating it and like, nobody told me what was to come. Like, nobody told me this was how it's supposed to be. I think those first six weeks after having a baby, I think we have some beautiful hormones that make us forget pretty quick, but it's a big transition. You come out of birth this whole different version and you have different priorities and it's easy to lose relationships and your connection with your partner and connection to yourself and you no longer have that time.

And, you know, I'm seeing these moms and I'm like, I see me in you, because that's where I was my last baby. I was like, okay, this is the last one. And we're going to do this, right. I'm going to plan for the first 40 days and I'm going to do all of this work and COVID hit, and I lost connection to every support person I had in home with two crazy little boys on top of that, and a tongue-tied baby and a baby with all this tension and.

So through these last few years of kind of all of that in combination and really working through my own body of kind of healings and postpartum depletion, I was like, how do I want to help moms? And it's really through supporting moms to be nourished through the postpartum period. 

Emily: I really just love that phrase postpartum depletion because I think oftentimes we all we hear about or read about is postpartum depression, which doesn't really resonate with everybody, but that depletion piece is like, you know, whether you feel emotionally depleted from it or physically or just on all fronts, but that's such a better catch-all term for it, you know, that I think opens up the idea for some women who might be like, well, I'm not depressed. Like that doesn't land right, you know, but, but that's great. 

Amy: Yeah. And so, I mean, depleted, you just gave birth, you're like bleeding, whether you breastfeed or not, you still have your body trying to produce milk and leaking. You're losing all that fluid after having a baby, your hair's falling out, your hormones just like dropped. You're giving all of your energy to this baby, you're not sleeping. And in our society right now, like, the, you know, standard American diet isn't exactly like replenishing and nourishing. You're exhausted, so you just kind of reach for what's there.

You are so tired and overwhelmed, you don't even know how to ask for help. People are like, well just let me know and you're like I don't even know how to fill up a glass of water for myself right now. And so within the Ayurvedic doula training that I'm in, we really focus on building community, focusing on rest, like how many of us in this modern world know how to truly rest, diet, herbal support.

And then the thing I love most about like the Ayurvedic way of tending to postpartum is body work and how moms can do their own body work, belly binding, and then massage on their own babies. So it's kind of really ties in really well. My background with yoga and everything and the craniosacral therapy I do. 

Emily: Yeah. And when you talk about building community, is that just helping them identify who their community might be or might, or is it creating a larger community? This sort of connects to a question about the Butte-based birth community, birth supports, supports for moms and how you see that growing. So it's kind of two questions. 

Amy: Yes. No, it totally wraps in together and there's like two parts of that, like really helping moms identify in their lives and you know, I'm born and raised here. I have in-laws, I have my own parents. I think a lot of people can resonate with that, but a lot of people who even have that, those people aren't their community for different reasons, but then you have people who move somewhere and they don't have family. And so it is like, you know, how can you build up friendships?

But also part of that community is like, you know, doulas or free community classes or physical therapist or other outside resources to help build that up. Planning with your partner, whoever's gonna be supporting you through that period, like that part of your community. I think about this a lot. We need just more community, period. I think women are supposed to do this mothering thing with other moms, but we have these lives that are so busy that I think it's gonna take a lot of time to like build the ideal community that, you know, the village that we all think of and it's never gonna look like it was in the past, and how can we move forward and create that community in the lives we have now. 

I don't know that I really have an answer, but what I would like to see is more opportunities for moms to get together, be with each other, more permission within our own selves as mothers to like slow down in life so we can be in that community. And then I think even, like, when we're out of those early years, you know, how can we be the community for our friends or our co-workers or our neighbor? How can we show up? Like, can I bring your kids to school today? Can I make you a meal? I'm just popping in, and I'm the little chicken lady, so, like, here's some eggs. You know? Like, how can we also be that community? 

Emily: Yeah, because I think for some women, that kind of community that's solely made up of new moms and their babies is not, it's not, it's not a great fit for everyone, you know, and there's something to be said, I think, for the value of like an intergenerational community for a new mom.

If you are someone who's, maybe not living near extended family or don't have a, you know, kind of productive relationship with your extended family. And for some people, it's not just another confused new mom that they need to talk to. It's the slightly older woman or much older woman who's been through it, who can kind of give them the wisdom of the ages and hold their baby for a second while they shower. So it's giving different models of what that community might look like for new moms. Because different people need different things. 

Cass: One of my biggest griefs when I became a mom in COVID with Rowan was I had a very good example of that community because I lived in Spain for six months when I was in college and I lived in a family and I lived in like a small village outside Bilbao and she had kids and I just got to observe a different culture doing it in my opinion better.

I mean they had other problems. That they were navigating, of course, but you could just go to the central plaza on a Sunday and just see the entire community out with all the ages. Grandpa had his cerveza and was sitting, and grandkids would run up and say hi to him, and like all the aunties and all the uncles were watching all of the children at the same time and they're running around and just co-parenting, co-raising all of these kids. And so there wasn't the isolation moms experience in those early times because you could just go and access your community so easily. So that was really impactful for me as a young person watching that happen and seeing the effect on families that it had. 

So I was really focused on that, becoming a new mom and saying, like, I'm going to not isolate. I'm going to not trap myself in this societal trap that we have where we don't find our people and we don't go out into the world with our new children and then it was April of 2020 when Rowan was born, and it was, it was just one of the biggest things I had to process for that time period. It was really, really hard and what's been interesting with Isla was I really was able to build and realize a lot more of that, especially really early postpartum for three months. People really show up and are really there and I really opened the door for that. And, like you see a lot of people saying like, have boundaries and make sure people don't interrupt your postpartum. And I was just like, I want you here. Like, please come in, drop off a meal train meal and like, stay for an hour and hang out and hold the baby. And like, I just was like, please be here. And I'm an introvert, but like, I wanted it and I embraced it, and it was really there for that first chunk of time. 

And then it just eventually, after that first little period it disappears and goes into the ether. When you don't have I think that like family that want to show up day in day out that are there all the time, you have like really good friends who really show up for those time periods when they know to, and then it like vanishes into the ether. So I'm experiencing this other version of it where like, yes, I can get Isla out and we can do the community things and it's so much better than it was with Rowan. And it's still not sufficient. It's still not enough. There still needs to be so much more for moms. 

Amy: So like multifaceted, isn't it? I think that was a lot of experiences too with COVID. Cause I know my second baby, I was like. Stay away. Cause my first baby, I had like people I didn't even know in my house. And I'm like, I'm trying to breastfeed, like you guys are all going to see my boobs and then everyone gets uncomfortable. And I'm like, well, you're in my house. I need this time. And I almost shut the door on the help. And then it was like, well, where is everyone, you know? And so. Just, it's like not modeled because that's just the way culturally it's been built here. I would love to see like, okay, we start a mom group, but like you were saying, there's these moms in tandem, like I'm lost, you know, but I think it'd be even healing for older moms, grandmas, you know, not the ones that are like, well, I turned out fine, you know, because that's not helpful, but to share their wisdom, I think there's something really healing about, as you age, to be able to share that wisdom. So I think that's important. 

Emily: And I think it's an honor to be asked for that wisdom, you know, as you're sort of growing into society, telling you you're irrelevant and, you know, there's something to that, you know, having a younger person say, hey, do you have any thoughts on this? Or, or even just, can you hold my baby? You know, like it doesn't even necessarily have to be someone, you know, some of the best supports that we had with our kids were older women friends who actually didn't have kids of their own, but just had still had so much love to give, and so much nurturing, you know, they weren't depleted by their own parenting experience. Sometimes childless friends are the best for that because they've just got an abundance. 

Cass: I wouldn't survive without my childless friend. Honestly, my best friend, she was the only one she isolated and came over before COVID and then Rowan was two weeks late. So she was here for this huge chunk of time. She's since bought a second home in Butte so that she can be here at least a third of the year and be that like chosen family, chosen family who really shows up. And yeah, those supports that extended support system of the people that are not just at the same stage. 

Emily: Not to leave men out of it too. You know, there's some really wonderful, good, strong grandfatherly energy out there and, you know, solid men in your family, I mean, there's just people who love you and want to see you succeed. 

Amy: I think for like for fathers, you know, we, as women talk a lot about our experiences, but can those men be resourced, so they can help us be resourced? There's a lot of work that needs to be done to like, bring the quote unquote village back. 

Cass: That was so rich. Is there anything that we haven't covered that you are excited to talk about or? 

Amy: Don't ask those questions. No, I just, I'm just honored to have been asked to come on. You know, it's really cool to see. I know there's a lot of people that are like, oh, there's just not enough in Butte, there's just not enough in Butte, but I choose to focus on what is coming because there's a lot of really great things. There's a lot of growth. We do have a lot more resources and experience coming in.

Do we need more? Yes. But it's a process and it's happening and we do have some really great supports coming in. And so I'm just happy that this is getting out there to be shared, what the different options are to have, you know, not that immediate family and friend support, but like external support of the village and community that we all need.

Cass: Anything else you can think of? 

Emily: I don't think so. This was lovely. Thank you so much for your time. 

Amy: Thank you guys so much. 

Emily: Mother Love Season 4 was produced by Brooke Boone Miller with music by Fred Krais. Special thanks to Shelby Carver with Platinum Real Estate for use of her podcasting studio. Mother Love is a project of Healthy Mothers, Healthy Babies, the Montana Coalition, a non profit organization dedicated to improving the health, safety, and well being of Montana families by supporting mothers and babies ages 0 to 3.

Opinions and views expressed in these interviews do not necessarily represent the views of HMHB as an organization. Visit us at hmhb-mt.org to learn more about who we are and what we do. If this episode of A Mining City Story resonated with you, and you're interested in finding similar services in your own community, we invite you to check out LIFTS, our statewide online resource guide, at hmhb-lifts.org. If you're a provider of care to moms and babies in Montana, we encourage you to get in touch and list your services in LIFTS at no cost. Thanks for listening. We hope you'll join us next time for more stories of pregnancy and parenting in Montana.