Session Voices: Jackie Mohler - Post-Session Engagement

In this episode we chat with Jackie Mohler, Executive Director of Family Outreach. Jackie discusses her legislative work on behalf of Montanans living with disabilities, and the ways in which engagement can -- and should -- continue after the session ends. 

Guest Bio: 

Jackie Mohler is Executive Director for Family Outreach Inc., a Montana-based 501(c)(3) nonprofit that supports people with developmental disabilities and their families. She has earned a Master of Education degree from MSU Billings, specializing in Special Education with Advanced Studies in Applied Behavior Analysis. Jackie is a mother of two children diagnosed with learning disabilities who have greatly benefitted from developmental support services and these issues are very close to her heart. She brings over 25 years of experience working in the human services field in both direct support and management roles. As president of the Montana Association for Behavior Analysis in 2017, Jackie worked with colleagues and lawmakers to develop legislation creating a framework for behavior analyst licensure in the state of Montana. Jackie is a Licensed Behavior Analyst and serves as Vice Chair for the Montana Board of Psychologists. In 2020, the Association of University Centers on Disabilities selected her as an Emerging Leader, recognizing her commitment to civil rights and social justice. She continues to provide professional guidance to lawmakers concerning developmental disability services, interventions, and treatments.

Organizations/resources mentioned in this episode:

Family Outreach: https://familyoutreach.org/

Behavioral Health System for Future Generations: https://dphhs.mt.gov/FutureGenerations/Index

Behavior Analyst Licensure Information (MT Department of Labor and Industry): https://boards.bsd.dli.mt.gov/psychologists/license-information/behavior-analyst

Montana Association of Community Disability Services: https://mtacds.com/

Enjoying the podcast? We’d love your feedback and ideas for future episodes! Take our LIFTS Podcast Listener Survey at hmhb-mt.org/survey.

Connect with Healthy Mothers, Healthy Babies

• Website
• Facebook
• Instagram 

For statewide resources to support Montana families in the 0-3 years of parenting, check out the LIFTS online resource guide at
https://hmhb-lifts.org/

Transcript

0:00: The Montana legislative session is winding down, but at Healthy Mothers, Healthy Babies, the Montana Coalition, we're learning about the work to be done following those 90 days. 
 0:10: I'm Emily Freeman, and you're listening to Session Voices, a special series from the Mother Love podcast. 
 0:15: Today's guest is Jackie Mohler, who will talk about the ways that relationship building and engagement can continue throughout the year, as well as the unexpected value of a tabled bill. 
 0:25: I'm Jackie Mohler. 
 0:26: I'm Executive Director for Family Outreach. 
 0:29: How does your work intersect with the legislative session? 
 0:32: Family Outreach provides services to individuals with disabilities. 
 0:36: And so their funding is tied directly to the legislature depending upon the services. 
 0:42: So it's an important piece and it's also important for people to understand what the needs of people with disabilities are. 
 0:48: They're important fiber to our community, you know, life is not full without a variety of people knowing and involving people with disabilities and Making sure they not only have a spot at the table, but they're engaged in the conversations of life, just enriches everybody's experience. 
 1:03: Were there any particular bills that you were involved in this session or leading up to this session? 
 1:09: From the last session to now, there was a commission started, the behavioral health systems for future generations. 
 1:16: And they worked and toured the entire state and listened to the community needs and then brought forward initiatives to make them disability services, mental health services better and so they had just a little over 20 initiatives, but they decided to break 10 of those initiatives for this session. 
 1:33: , 8 of those initiatives are moving along. 
 1:36: There is one that's kind of stuck that I'm concerned about, and that's for evaluation and diagnostic clinics for young children, so that they can be recognized early on and we can know what their needs are and we can know what the supports they need. 
 1:49: So just because there's been a lot of work done before doesn't mean when it gets legislative session that's always easy. 
 1:55: There's still lots of conversations to be had to make sure that funding is secured. 
 2:00: And if a bill gets tabled in committee or fails, can you actually talk about the distinction between those two? 
 2:06: Words, absolutely. 
 2:08: It's all the little details to listen and learn about sessions. 
 2:12: When the legislative members are ready to vote, then they'll vote on a subject, and then you'll see that vote and you can clearly see if it failed. 
 2:20: But if they don't have enough information or they don't feel like They've had enough time to discuss it during the legislative sessions or in between, then they can table a bill and kind of say like they need more information. 
 2:32: This one isn't ready to move forward yet. 
 2:35: It kind of signals to you like, OK, so if it's been tabled, who do we need to talk to more? 
 2:40: Like, why is this not feeling complete? 
 2:42: So you can have those conversations with legislative members, what do they need to know more about? 
 2:46: So is tabling almost sort of a call to action on your part, like there's more work to be done. 
 2:52: It's not just a death sentence necessarily, kind of an opportunity for more engagement. 
 2:57: Yeah, exactly. 
 2:58: I mean, that's always what I see it as, and it can be because our legislative sessions are so short. 
 3:04: Like drafting doesn't start until the session starts. 
 3:06: So sometimes you've worked on a bill, but it's not ready till later in the session, so there hasn't been enough time for conversation. 
 3:13: So many times bills come back in the next session or the following session. 
 3:17: Cause it takes time to have these conversations and to get people educated and to get the bill refined enough so it works, cause that's part of it, you bring it out there for the conversation, and then people give you feedback. 
 3:28: Well, can this be adjusted? 
 3:30: Can that be adjusted? 
 3:31: And so there's lots of dialogue, cause once we get something in the law, we really want it to be what can stand for a long time. 
 3:37: How many sessions have you been involved with? 
 3:40: I've been involved with the last few. 
 3:42: The first one I participated in more than usual, was in 2017. 
 3:47: I'm a behavior analyst and I worked in 2017 to help get licener in place so that there'd be licensed behavior analysts in the state. 
 3:55: And we were blessed that the board of Psychologists allowed us to come underneath them and work with them. 
 4:00: Since that time, we went from zero behavior analysts in the state to right now we have about 100. 
 4:05: So it's great to know that there's more working professions in the state to to help people with disabilities. 
 4:11: Do you feel like you learn more each session, or did you sort of plateau in your knowledge about the session, and now it's just the same old thing every other year? 
 4:19: No, I mean, it's dynamic, there's lots to it, there's always learning. 
 4:23: I always view it. 
 4:24: like so many things, it's like painting with a thin paint. 
 4:28: It takes lots of layers, it takes lots of experience and engagement, and you know something more every time, so it's worth it, and it's dynamic and it changes cause the people change. 
 4:37: Every session, there's new people and there's people that have been around, and the committees change. 
 4:42: They may have been there a long time and never been on this committee before, so they're gaining knowledge. 
 4:46: They're all learning through this legislative process as well, so it's really an ever flowing stream that you kind of get in and, you know, navigate the whole time. 
 4:56: As we near the end of the session, how does the part of your work that connects to the legislature, how does that change after the 90 days? 
 5:04: What does that work look like in those interim months and year? 
 5:09: I think the in between the 90 days is the most important piece. 
 5:12: There's committees going on, there's more time that you can meet with legislatures, have deeper conversations. 
 5:19: So you should really come out of a session, having learned what worked and what didn't for a bill, and then that should inform you of how you should engage with legislative members moving forward. 
 5:30: So do they make themselves available after the 90 days? 
 5:33: Are you still contacting them through their government email addresses, or does it depend on the legislator in terms of how available they make themselves? 
 5:40: Most of them will make themselves available. 
 5:42: Most of them are interested in learning in between the sessions. 
 5:45: So I think it's really important to get to know them. 
 5:48: Reach out to them, contact them, and also look at the committees that are meeting. 
 5:52: What are the topics that are interested to you attend those committees, follow those committees, give your public comment during those committees as well too. 
 5:59: So are those committees, those interim committees, are those meeting dates still listed on the legislative website the way they are now and the process is the same for giving public comment or do you have to kind of know. 
 6:11: Like if you know, you know that a meeting is happening. 
 6:14: Oh no, it's all out there for for public information. 
 6:17: Now, the websites are updated, the website was updated before this session, so you have to learn the new website and learn how to navigate it, but just take some time, poke around, you're not gonna break it and find those dates and attend those committees, listen to their topics and, you know, be able to. 
 6:32: Inform them as well. 
 6:33: I like that, the slow work of engagement, having a little, a little room to breathe around it versus that frenetic crazy pace of the session where it's like everyone's learning really quickly and oh my gosh, this is happening tomorrow. 
 6:47: Do you have your thing right, you know, like that urgency. 
 6:49: It can be exciting and invigorating, but it can also be overwhelming for some. 
 6:53: Folks, you know, and to have a little bit of a slower time to learn the process. 
 6:57: So then when it does come time for another session, you're warmed up. 
 7:01: Absolutely. 
 7:02: And remember, sometimes you don't know, like you're interested in the topic. 
 7:06: Maybe you're started receiving services because you have a child with disabilities, or you have somebody with mental health needs, or you're just interested in. 
 7:14: Fish, wildlife and parks, like there's so many different committees, but if something is impacting your life, you might not know what you need to advocate for, but it's important to let your legislature know these things are important to you, and sometimes they have solutions behind the scenes. 
 7:27: Sometimes they're seeing problems and solutions, and if they know it's valuable to their community, they're going to find that solution. 
 7:32: I think an example of that is Representative Chair Gillette brought House Bill 576, which is to use some funding that's accumulating in ch funding. 
 7:43: And be able to use that funding for other services for early intervention services for Part C or Family education support, or the 0208 waiver or McPhee home visiting. 
 7:54: So they've like, we've listened to people and we hear that these are needs and we want to make sure that there's funding for these services. 
 8:01: Nobody else. 
 8:02: Had this idea outside of those legislators, but they've heard from so many people that they can see like what's valuable to the community, where are some pockets of money that we can line up to make sure those services are held in place and that they're supported. 
 8:15: So even just talking about what's important to you and then asking your legislative member what's important to them, can open up some really exciting conversations. 
 8:24: Yeah, those are great conversation starters that don't assume a ton of knowledge going into it. 
 8:31: Sometimes it can be intimidating because you feel like, well, I believe in this service or this program, but I don't really know how to talk about it at a high level. 
 8:39: So what am I going to say to some legislator about it, but just recognizing it can be that simple as here's what matters to me, what matters to you, and then that just opens the door to a conversation between two. 
 8:50: Humans, and there isn't necessarily that perceived power differential between constituent and legislator. 
 8:56: It could be just sharing what's that that's impacted your life, that's helping you. 
 9:00: We have these different programs or services that we rely on or that we see people benefiting from in our communities. 
 9:06: And the realization that funding isn't static and isn't permanent and sometimes can't really be counted on. 
 9:13: And so even if you haven't heard, this funding is on the chopping. 
 9:17: You got to get in there and tell them you need it. 
 9:19: Yeah, sharing what's important without it being urgent in the moment, right, or that you're sharing because you want something from them, you know, or you're criticizing them for not valuing it in the same way that you do, but just simply sharing and saying, hey, I know you're part of the legislature, you're in this power position to help drive decisions that impact our lives, and I just wanted to share with you how much our family thrives because of this service. 
 9:43: So many little programs and services are really invisible to a lot of people. 
 9:50: I would imagine sometimes with the disability community in particular, there's that lack of awareness sometimes of all the services that are being provided in closed settings often or behind the scenes. 
 10:01: You know, it's not these big ones that we've all heard of, like Medicaid. 
 10:04: Yeah, absolutely, because there is a lot of customized services because people's individual needs are, are different. 
 10:10: And so be able to speak up like these programs have helped me, and I just want to make sure you know they're valuable to me in the community. 
 10:17: And that was just huge because as the wheels turning as things are presented to them, then they know that much more. 
 10:22: I mean, the disability community, the part that I work with was with intellectual disabilities, that condition is about 1.5% of the population, and they're not individuals that necessarily all have the skills to be able to advocate for themselves. 
 10:35: We all have to chip in and support them. 
 10:37: You know, and make sure like everybody knows they're important and the services they receive are important because as I said, they're an important fiber of the community, and there's lots of other little services like that that are just key to separate populations. 
 10:48: But if we don't have those conversations and just say this is impactful, this is important, and I just want to share and just ask them that, have you ever had this experience, you know, what's what's valuable to you? 
 10:59: So you get that two way conversations because sometimes they can share. 
 11:02: I've worked on this and maybe it's similar in these ways, you know, so then it just gets it in their brain and it helps them all. 
 11:09: And just remembering, like with anything, I think the science says at least 7 touches before we know something. 
 11:15: So anytime you introduce something new to somebody, you can't just do it once. 
 11:18: You got to have multiple conversations over time to get that and to get that memory embedded in the brain. 
 11:24: We just can't say, I just, I sent them one note, I reached out one time. 
 11:28: It's like short messages reaching out and building those connections, and then when it's valuable, they can reach back out to you because they know you're experienced and knowledgeable on this as well. 
 11:39: That's such a great point. 
 11:40: I feel for these legislators, especially the freshmen, it is a fire hose of information. 
 11:47: Not only are they there having to learn everything about their role from yeah, which button to press and what to say before you talk and which door leads to which room, but the amount of input they're getting from different individual constituents and different groups and organizers and lobbyists, I mean, their brains must be pretty full, certainly by this point in the session, and, and that idea that rather than just flooding them. 
 12:13: There's that option to drip the information gently and slowly over a protracted period of time. 
 12:19: When you talk about working with people with intellectual disabilities who may or may not be able to advocate for themselves or go provide testimony, how are you or the other people in your work able to almost like provide testimony by proxy? 
 12:33: Is there a way that you can comfortably and ethically tell their stories to legislators in a way that's impactful, even if they themselves can't get up there and do it? 
 12:42: That work, I think, is important in between the sessions, because it's stressful it's stressful any person to get up there to the mic. 
 12:48: You know, so you try to encourage people from, from all diversities to be able to have that experience. 
 12:53: But this is where it's important in between, to invite people in and to be able to say, hey, come and see my home, come and see my life. 
 12:59: I want to share it with you and let you know, like how what it is to live with a person with a disability, what supports they need, and come and talk with them in an environment that's friendly to them. 
 13:09: So changing up that conversation role and inviting them in. 
 13:13: And luckily we have legislative members and body, like they're part of our communities. 
 13:17: They're not aloft from us at all. 
 13:19: Many are willing in between sessions to take that time and meet with people. 
 13:23: So, just remembering like, you, you can put that invitation out there and say, hey, come, I just want you to see like what my day takes, what supports it takes, you know, and some Will say this is part of my life too, and I can share with you how it's part of my life. 
 13:36: But then you can know that they understand you as well too. 
 13:38: And you can know if they've had an experience like that and come and visited with you wherever, whether they're living in group homes, living in their own apartments, living with their family members, so that they know like oh this is why, this is what supports they need. 
 13:51: So when they're making those decisions on policy or on funding, it's the right supports for those individuals, you know, look at those committees. 
 13:58: If it's something in human services, look at those members on that committee. 
 14:01: Who's a person from your area? 
 14:03: Get a group of you together and invite them over in a friendly way. 
 14:06: Like, this stuff is important to you, we want to share that's important to us. 
 14:10: Look to your local associations. 
 14:11: We belong to the Montana Association of Community Disability Providers, MACDS. 
 14:17: There's lots of associations that help with this communication. 
 14:20: To and can help set up, but really they don't mind meeting one on one and getting to know people in their local community. 
 14:26: Their pay does not cover what they do for their work, but their commitment to our community shows loudly on how they will meet and listen and then look for those solutions. 
 14:37: How could an ordinary citizen who's never even dipped their toe in the political process, how can someone get started? 
 14:44: They want to feel more involved. 
 14:46: Technology has expanded things so much. 
 14:49: It's great that you can go to our legislative website. 
 14:51: I do it all the time and just watch sessions. 
 14:54: You can watch them while they're going in real time. 
 14:56: You can watch recorded sessions, so it's available, it's accessible, and then you get to know the dialogue and the conversations. 
 15:03: What are they interested in, what are they talking about? 
 15:06: What might they need to know more about as well. 
 15:09: So if you can really watch. 
 15:11: The system you can watch, as I said, the interim committees, you can watch it while it's in session, so it's all accessible, which is just huge. 
 15:18: I can't imagine their recording system and how they keep all that information, you know, cataloged, but it's available, so that's a great place to start, and your vote always counts, you know, so be an educated voter. 
 15:30: And vote for who's going to help support what the community you want it to be in the future. 
 15:35: Look at those people that have been voted in, who are your legislative members in your area. 
 15:40: Reach out to them, talk with them. 
 15:42: If they're doing any presentations, any local town halls, attend those, get to know what they're speaking about. 
 15:49: And don't be afraid just to share, just to share what's important to you. 
 15:52: You don't have to know every detail of it. 
 15:55: They just have to know that it's, it's valuable to you. 
 15:59: I do think that the legislative website, it's great. 
 16:01: It's robust. 
 16:02: There's tons of stuff on there. 
 16:03: It's confusing. 
 16:04: It's a little overwhelming. 
 16:06: If you've tried to engage in that way and it just broke your brain with the complexity of it. 
 16:12: If you know your local legislator, they're in your community and you just say, Hey, I don't necessarily want anything from you, but if you could simply show me how to Access something on the website or even say to them, I'm really concerned about this particular issue. 
 16:25: I, I, I know you're not on that committee, but can you recommend who I might reach out to, who is on that committee? 
 16:32: Because I would imagine that they have a better handle on who's working in what areas. 
 16:37: Oh, absolutely. 
 16:38: And a lot of them are cross committees. 
 16:40: They'll be on multiple committees. 
 16:42: Our state is just smaller. 
 16:43: So they may say like, yeah, I'm on that committee, or this is a good person who's more in that area, listen to that committee or reach out to that person for sure, but it it is a huge system and it's a huge system for anybody to navigate, so have patience with yourself and know that everybody is like trying to keep up with technology, but it's moving quickly, but it is an avenue that creates greater access when it works just right. 
 17:07: And don't be afraid to ask so. 
 17:08: When younger, someone who's just a little more comfortable in tech spaces to help you navigate it if you are struggling. 
 17:13: Absolutely. 
 17:14: And I think an important piece to remember is that it's the people's house, it's the people's capital. 
 17:19: It's for us to be in that space. 
 17:21: Sometimes people don't realize that it takes some time, depending upon your personality. 
 17:26: I recommend, besides listening online, go up and sit, go up and be in the space, listen to how other people testify. 
 17:33: Some people do need it written out in notes. 
 17:35: I'm a person like I never, except for a couple little brief notes, I listen to the conversations that go along which inform me in the moment and it adjust my testimony before I give it. 
 17:45: So I listen and I take some brief notes, but I don't write mine all out. 
 17:50: Now you can, a lot of people do, and that works well for them. 
 17:52: But one thing to remember with the legislature and people shouldn't be offended by this, but their time is important. 
 17:58: So if you have it all written out, cause they take written testimony. 
 18:02: So if it's written out, a lot of times they'll look at you and say if it's written out, just hand it to us because we can read and they're not trying to be offensive, but they're trying to be prudent with their time. 
 18:11: And so if you're gonna get up and speak, you wanna see something a little bit different. 
 18:15: So if I have a written out testimony, I'll be like, I'm going, I've turned this in already, but now I'm gonna speak to you about some important aspects. 
 18:22: So I, I never read if I have something written out. 
 18:25: A lot of times they'll limit your time to 3 minutes as well. 
 18:28: So you wanna make sure you're used to speaking in a time limit, cause it can be frustrating if somebody cuts you off and somebody says to you, OK, your time is up. 
 18:36: But they got to hear a lot of information. 
 18:38: So remember not to take that personally, it's respecting their time, so you got to prepare to give testimony in a concise amount of time. 
 18:45: And remember, if you have more information and additional documents, you can always submit that online, you can always turn it in right there in the meeting. 
 18:52: I've seen cases this session where because certain hearings have gone so long, they start to. 
 18:57: testimony to 2 minutes or even 1 minute. 
 18:59: So if you are someone who's written out your testimony and you're more comfortable reading from a script, maybe make sure that you have literally 3 versions of it that you're bringing, because it would be a shame to spend your first minute with a long heartfelt introduction and then time's up. 
 19:14: Time's up. 
 19:15: Yeah. 
 19:16: And if you are someone who is more comfortable with a script or with some index cards, no shame in that. 
 19:21: I mean, even in the floor sessions, you'll see legislators clearly reading from a paper that oftentimes seems like it was written by someone else. 
 19:27: And then you have ones who are spontaneously getting up and they're like these gifted orators. 
 19:31: It's really amazing to watch sometimes. 
 19:34: There's a range of ways to tell your story and sometimes paper and pre-written scripts are involved and sometimes it's just coming out of your head in the moment and There's no one right way. 
 19:44: You just find what fits for you and maybe over time. 
 19:47: You know, maybe you think you need a script and then the third time you get up there to give testimony, you're like, oh wait, I, I don't need this anymore, you know, but it can make you feel more comfortable just to have it in front of you sometimes if you does panic at the microphone, yeah, yeah. 
 20:00: Well, even so I'll get up there and then I'll miss a couple points cause you're just in that moment like I've been doing this for several years now and I'm still nervous every single time I get up for that podium, you know, so even the best plan, sometimes your brain can just like space out. 
 20:15: It makes a case for visiting the Capitol more often, just feeling more comfortable in a physical space. 
 20:20: It's like when your kid is ready for kindergarten and they get to go there before school starts and then they see what the room looks like, they meet the teacher and just knowing that stuff makes them more comfortable. 
 20:31: And so even just going to the Capitol, you know, during the session, not during the session, seeing the rooms, walking into those spaces, even that, I think can help some people know what to expect when they get there that day. 
 20:43: is complex and navigate. 
 20:45: So you're right, like learning where the rooms are at sometimes cause you get up to the 3rd and 4th floor, and they're in separate parts of the building, so you gotta know what side you're going to. 
 20:55: So yes, it's absolutely a little bit of a maze sometimes to make it to the right room at the right time. 
 21:01: Is there anything else that you wish that I had asked or that you'd like people to know? 
 21:05: Stay connected, reach out at what level you're comfortable, and then you will grow and learn. 
 21:09: Never feel like you can't because of anything. 
 21:12: You can, your words important, your word is valuable. 
 21:15: Knowing other people in your community that you might need to help speak up for is also important. 
 21:21: Advocating cause you want other people that learn or experience life differently, to be in your community and be involved, just look around you and and appreciate that and let people know that you appreciate them being supported in this space. 
 21:34: Wonderful. 
 21:35: Well, thank you so much for your time, Jackie. 
 21:37: This was great. 
 21:37: Thank you so much. 
 21:38: I really appreciate this opportunity. 
 21:41: Mother Love is a project of Healthy Mothers Healthy Babies, the Montana Coalition, a nonprofit dedicated to improving the health, safety and well-being of Montana families in the 0 to 3 years of parenting. 
 21:51: Visit us at HMHB-Mt.org to learn more about who we are and what we do. 
 21:57: Views and opinions expressed in these interviews do not necessarily represent HMHB as an organization. 
 22:03: If you have feedback on the podcast or an idea for a future episode, we'd love to hear from you. 
 22:08: You can email us at stories@hmhb-Mt.org. 
 22:13: Thanks for listening. 

Note: transcript automatically generated. Please forgive any errors.