The LIFTS Podcast

Carrie Krepps - Building Connection and Community for Montana Families

• Season 5 • Episode 5

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0:00 | 30:47

Guest Bio: 

Carrie joined Florence Crittenton in 2010 as Grants Officer and quickly moved into the role of Development Director in 2011, a position she held for eight years before becoming Executive Director in 2019.

Before Florence Crittenton, Carrie was Education Coordinator for the Montana Hospital Association and gained development and project management experience with the Helena Symphony and Montana State University Athletics.

Over her 15 years at Florence Crittenton, Carrie has worked extensively in budget management, fund and contract development, and advocacy. As Executive Director, she leads the integrated leadership team and guides the organization’s mission alongside the Board of Directors and staff, with deep expertise in family-centric care.

Carrie holds a Business Marketing degree with a minor in Small Business & Entrepreneurship from Montana State University–Bozeman. A Helena native, she enjoys raising her two daughters, Ella and Sarah, with her husband, Fred, and is passionate about connecting families with strong community support and sustainable programs.

Episode Details:

In this episode, host Emily Freeman talks with Carrie Krepps, Executive Director at Florence Crittenton Family Services, about the vital work the organization has done for 125 years to support families across Montana.

Carrie shares insights into the programs that meet families where they are — from residential services for young mothers and recovery programs, to home visiting, childcare, and community-based support — emphasizing the importance of connection, trust, and long-term relationships.

Highlights include:

  • The organization’s 125-year history of serving vulnerable families
  • Residential programs for young moms (ages 12–20) and long-term recovery programs for mothers and children
  • Community-based services: home visiting, parenting classes, supervised visitation, and early childhood care
  • The critical role of human connection, time, and trust in supporting families through trauma, substance use recovery, and isolation
  • Redefining community: small, meaningful connections can be as impactful as large programs or events
  • What success looks like: integrating families into community life, supporting children’s development, and fostering resilience

This episode highlights the power of community, patience, and long-term commitment in supporting Montana families through the challenges of early parenting and beyond.

Resources:

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Connect with Healthy Mothers, Healthy Babies

For statewide resources to support Montana families in the 0-3 years of parenting, check out the LIFTS online resource guide at
https://hmhb-lifts.org/

Emily Freeman: 0:02

Welcome to Season five of the Lifts podcast, where we connect with parents, caregivers, providers, and advocates for Montana families in their early years of parenting. Through personal stories of lived experience and expert insights, we highlight the people and programs that are helping families thrive. I'm Emily Freeman, and this is the LIFTS Podcast, a project of Healthy Mothers Healthy Babies, the Montana Coalition.

Carrie: 0:28

My name's Carrie Krepps. I'm the executive director at Florence Crittenton Family Services. Great. Well,

Emily: 0:34

Thanks for being here.

Carrie: 0:35

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Emily: 0:36

Can you share a little bit about what Florence Crittenton does and who you serve?

Carrie: 0:41

Yeah, so, um, the organization has actually been in Montana for 125 years, so celebrating that anniversary, big milestone this year. Um, and really the organization in its entire history has existed to really to serve families. And to meet them where they are in their journey of parenthood and building families. And with the ultimate goal of just really wanting families that can thrive and build productive lives and be contributing to our community and making it you know, just even that much better of a place. Really our services are born out of serving the most vulnerable families and we have done that since our inception. The original mission of the home was to serve lost and fallen women, which really came from the mining days where things were really difficult for widowed women and prostitution and all of those things. So coming from really the toughest places. And that really has never changed, that our core will always be to work with those most vulnerable, those invisible families. But also, over time to expand and move farther upstream so that we don't wait for people to get, families to get to that space. Our programs are broken into three service categories, so we have a residential programs. Probably what we're most well known for. We have a youth maternity home they serve that serves moms ages 12 to 19 or 20. Really coming from those really, really challenging situations. You can imagine a mom that's 12, things have been pretty tough. And then we have our 3.1 recovery Home for Women and children. That's a licensed treatment program, where moms can seek long-term recovery treatment, but also that their kiddos get to come with them. So that program's moms aged ages 18 to 35. Kiddos in both those programs up to age five and multiple kids quite often in that recovery home with them. So, then starting to move farther upstream, we got into the business of community-based services. With home visiting and parenting classes and supervised visitation support. And we've been, you know, on that journey for about 20 years now. Those programs serve kind of that greater Lewis and Clark Broadwater, Jefferson Counties residential services. All 56 counties. And then our childcare program, our Child enrichment center that serves kiddos, families in the community, early childhood and childcare program for up to 46 kids, zero to five. And that's residential clients, our own staff, general Helena community, kind of little bit of everybody. So trying to address it from every angle. Also recognizing we're not the be all end all, but really understanding the intersection of that continuum of care. So in terms of who we serve like I said, it really runs from the most vulnerable 12-year-old mom that could have either been coming out of a trafficking situation or CPS or, some other, you know, really tough spot. We serve a lot of clients from reservations all the way up to that family that needs really great high quality childcare so that they can be at work, their kids can be thriving, and, and kind of everything in between. And we really pride ourselves in being able to have families enter that continuum wherever it makes the most sense and then to be able to follow along with them. So we might have a family that starts with us in the residential program. And they may be with us for five years and beyond because they started in residential when their children were born, used our childcare as they moved into the community, used more of our home visiting community-based services, continued case management, and we follow their kiddos right out to kindergarten. So we can build really long lasting relationships with our families, which we really love.

Emily: 4:18

That's great. And I love that integrated approach where with the childcare, for example, you're not just sort of siloing different groups. And so what do you see as the most urgent needs for moms and families in Montana right now? Or the areas where there's the most opportunity for help or support?

Carrie: 4:37

I think it's hard because there's the things that are right in our face, right? That nationally, statewide, there's affordable housing. There is affordable childcare. There is access to medical care. Those are the things that are just in our faces all the time, and they feel very tangible and they're very serious challenges. What we see when you kind of peel back that second layer, what families really need, and especially families that may have been struggling with substance use or, loss of family for various circumstances, trauma, what they need is time and they need connection. And those are not easy to come by. There's not a tangible way to gather that. There's not a tangible way to really study it. There's not a tangible way to say this is exactly how much it costs. And yet if you ask families and if we are lucky enough to have a family for five years, we watch those bumps like along the way. And what often is the bumpiest is that they've either not had enough time, especially if they're in recovery. Recovery is a lifetime journey. We're applying 30, 45, 90 days and saying, you're free, you're cured. We would never do that to a diabetes patient. We would give them the long-term support and tools and medication they needed. We really struggle to be able to attach the right amount of time for healing and for growth. And then when you talk about families that have maybe had to leave their entire support system, right, wrong or indifferent, what that support system is, it is your support system. It is your family, it is your blood, it is all, you know. I think when that happens, it takes a really long time to rebuild that and it's really scary. It's really scary to trust. It's really scary to find people maybe in a sober living. Or if you've moved maybe to Helena in a residential program and it doesn't feel like a good option to move back to your home community, you have to build a new life here or and they really crave that. And it's the thing that can honestly derail families probably the fastest when you're really live and rate on that margin. We're marginalized in community and support. And that really is the thing that's really shaky and it is the hardest thing for families to talk about. It feels very shameful to say that you don't have a family or that you don't have anyone to rely on. Um, I can't tell you how many clients come in here and we get time for baby to come.'cause a lot of women come in pregnant and who should we call? There's nobody on their safe list, literally no one. And we become their family. And that's really hard that that carries a lot of weight for them. So I think that's the thing like I said, it's not the, it's not the headline. Those things are very real that are happening with affordable housing and access to services, but it's that underlying piece that just that we see that is really sometimes the biggest barrier to long term success.

Emily: 7:41

Well, and it's interesting because it's, on one hand it's frustrating because it is intangible in a way. But on the other hand, maybe it's hopeful because it's connection. Maybe that's something that we can all participate in. And maybe it's as simple as, smiling at another mom who you see at the store. How can we create and foster connection just as individuals walking around in our lives?

Carrie: 8:04

I think you're right. I think that is the part that is probably the most hopeful. Our clinical director does a great job of talking about. This is oversimplifying, but he talks all the time about it takes humans to rupture human relationship and it takes humans to heal it. It's that simple. I mean, it really is. We rupture relationships through human interaction, but that is the only thing that heals it, which seems really like I said, oversimplified, but it's really not. But what does that take? It takes time and it takes community and I do think that makes it feel more like we can all have a part in it. Things are complicated and, you know, you feel like you can't even, there's just too much, it just seems like there's so much up against families that like, gosh, how are we ever gonna heal it all back? And I feel that way all the time in running an organization like this. But then at the others end of it, I can go downstairs in our Child enrichment center and watch a mom that I know is from our recovery home hand a birthday invitation to a community mom because their kids are best buddies and it's their birthday coming up. They're having their birthday party in our park on our campus, and she's getting to probably for the first time in her life, hand that invitation to another mom as just mom to mom. It probably took her a month to work up the courage to do that. But it happens. I get to watch those birthday parties happen. Nobody knows what, how different those families are.'cause in that moment, their kids are best buddies. I went to the graduation, the kindergarten graduation, or you know, pre-K the school is getting ready to start and everyone's setting up play dates'cause all the kids are going to different schools, but they don't wanna miss each other. I know what everyone's scenarios are, but they don't. That's life changing, right? It's life changing for those kids. It's life changing for those families. I think it can be as simple and as powerful as that. And I think it's the thing that we're, we're losing track of because there's so many other things going on.

Emily: 10:08

And some of those more complex problems they may never be solved. You may move the needle in a generation. Exactly. But you can move the needle in someone's day by looking them in the eye and smiling or you know, just, yeah.

Carrie: 10:24

Yeah. Absolutely. And you're right. Why is our program still in existence after 125 years? Because we haven't solved the problem with these vulnerable families. Like I would love to work ourselves out of a job, but you're right, we may never fully solve all of this. But the simplicity of humanity is really one of the things that, that just feels very urgent. And of course we can tie all of that, that back a lot of it to pandemic era and what the pandemic did was it kind leveled the playing field. And those that have lived in isolation a lot as parents and, you know, rural community or just, you know, in a substance use community or something like that. Now everybody has had a little taste of it. And I do think, again, that brings nothing but opportunity. Yeah. For us to reset.

Emily: 11:09

And you know, isolation is such a big issue in Montana because of how geographically isolated so many families are and you're in a more densely populated area. How do you approach a mom who's maybe returning to her home community or is moving somewhere and she's not gonna have the built-in community of, living in a facility or living in a city. How do we combat maternal isolation or just what do you do if you don't know any other moms in town? Or if you don't mm-hmm. Have a library within an hour's drive. What are the best practices that you would encourage for someone'cause you, you don't want them to come back. What do you say to someone who's going somewhere where there's just not a lot?

Carrie: 11:51

I think in this day and age of technology what we always encourage is build on the new relationships that you have started. Sometimes that's us. Right? Case management is available to them forever. We're always home. While we do not want them to have to come back into our residential program, we are literally a phone call away. We have our clinicians that will follow our clients, out into the community for years after. Again, technology has helped tremendously with that. But you may have made some really great or a single connection with one mom while you were here and stay in touch, right? This is the beauty of the communication that we have now. All of the tough things about social media and there's again, an opportunity inside of that. Keep that one person you met in that one place and just keep in touch with them, even if it's a text message to say, Hey, how are you doing? I was thinking about you the other day. I'm kind of going through this thing with the kids and I remember we talked about it one time and I just, it just made me think of you and I just wanted to reach out and say hi. And I think we're so afraid to do that, and especially, if you have a history of trauma and mistrust and shame, we convince ourselves that they're not gonna respond. Right. Why would they respond? And I think we're shocked always when they do. My best friend from when I grew up, sent me a text message three days ago that said, I have no idea why, but you have been on my mind. And I just wanted to say hi. My kiddo just went to college. She's like, how are you doing? You're two months in. I was just getting ready to go see my daughter. Like it was just that intuition, right? And we texted back and forth twice. I was floating on the cloud for two days. It was like, holy cow. Just that simple, simple connection. So it doesn't have to be grand. We say community, right? And instantly our brains go to 10, 20, 30. We go to town size. Community. Community is a single mom going through the exact same thing. A mom That's on a ranch that's 45 miles away from another mom. That could be your community, that could be who you are talking to or somebody that you met in a different town that now you can communicate. I think it's about not getting overwhelming. It doesn't have to be fancy. It doesn't have to be a lot of people. Find one person, find two people. We don't have to plan the big play dates or we don't have to plan the big girls night out. We don't always have the opportunity to do things like that, and we shouldn't force ourselves to have an all or nothing. It can be very, very simple.

Emily: 14:26

Well, and that's not a good fit for every mom anyway. If you're introverted or just maxed out sensory wise, right? Yes. If you've been listening to kids and the noise of little ones all day. Yes. It may be that the thought of then going to a mom's night out is just, it's just too much? Yeah. And so maybe, maybe your community is the friend that who wants to go for a walk. You know? Exactly. And maybe, or maybe it's someone who's not even in the same season of life as you but has been there. Maybe it's an older woman in the community who mm-hmm. Who either remembers that stage of life or you know, doesn't have kids of her own and has a lot of love to give. So it's, yeah. Yeah. Like redefining community. And I, I love that you said that it doesn't have to just always look like a big group of people that all look the same. You know? It can be Right. It can be small.

Carrie: 15:16

Yeah. And we do, we think of community fairs. We think of these amazing gatherings that are unbelievable. We do Parents connect, connected parenting groups here as part of our home visiting programs. They're awesome. I get to watch'em out in the yard. They're so great. And for the parents that you can just see them be like, this is amazing. But that's not for everyone. Like you said, some people that would terrify them to be in a situation like, that'd be so worried. I know you can't see, but I have this great fishbowl window that I sit out here a lot during pickup and drop off for childcare, and I cannot tell you how many times I've seen two moms put the kids in the car and just like staring outside the car when they get in it and they look at each other and you can see the 45 second exchange that happens between the two of'em. They just chat for a minute while the kids are in the car. They're right there and it's right. It's a minute and you just can see the visible. I can't hear their conversation, but I could probably play it out. Right. And I, I just love that. I mean, it is an instant connection that's just like, yep, I see you. I see you, I see you. And I think that's the other thing too, there's just self-inflicted, cultural, whatever it is, we struggle as, as moms to ask for help. We still put a lot of shame on not feeling like we have to be superwoman and not to feel like we're struggling and we don't know why. Our children are healthy and beautiful and they're great and they're developmentally appropriate stage, and the teacher says they're doing awesome, and why am I struggling so bad right now? You know, why am I struggling in this season of my life? I should be nothing but grateful. And then, you know, again, add just a tiny bit of circumstantial pieces like trauma and substance use and family challenges and all of that and we just skyrocket. You know, kind of do this thing, like if our kids are doing well and we're doing well, like how dare we have a bad day? And, you know, never let the iron curtain down We've got this and I think we're doing better. But I think we're still struggling with doing that. And if you, like I said, if you can find that one person or be the one that pays it forward. Like my friend just reaching out.

Emily: 17:33

Yeah.

Carrie: 17:34

Like she had no reason to, something made her do it. And in that instance she just did it. And man, what an amazing gift that was, for her to do that. And she didn't say why, she didn't give me any details. She's like, you're just on my heart and I need to check in. And my instant reaction was to be like, I'm great. Thanks so much. And I like stopped for a minute. I'm like, no, I'm great. But I am also really tired and I'm super anxious for my kiddo to come home this weekend because I have no idea what that's gonna look like. She knows she was there a year ago.

Emily: 18:04

She

Carrie: 18:04

knows where I'm at. Her daughter was far away too. We gotta keep it simple in this crazy world.

Emily: 18:08

Talking about shame is too often being like the default head space for moms. When you talk about a mom who then has those added challenges, like a mom in recovery, like a mom who's coming out of some messy situation, are you noticing any shifts in how providers and, communities overall are viewing moms in substance use recovery, or moms with records. Are you noticing any kind of a shift or are there ways that you wish that providers would be able to shift their perspective a little?

Carrie: 18:41

I think both. I think we have seen, I've been here for almost 16 years. I can definitely say on a global level have seen a massive shift in our ability to see that substance use and some of those struggles do not know any boundaries. They don't know socioeconomic boundaries. There's no discrimination in some of those challenges, and I think we're doing a better job. I think where we struggled when we, so when we first opened our recovery home, we'd been a maternity home for a hundred years. And in 2017 is when we opened our recovery home. I was terrified. I had no idea what the, backlash would be from the community, from our donors, from providers, the state. I just didn't, I didn't know what that was gonna look like. And you hear a very broad spectrum. What I heard a lot from moms was quietly saying. I've been clean for 30 years and I had to do it on my own. And I was like, what? No idea. And I had to do that completely on my own. And the shame that I carried my entire life, and I'll holy cow, still gives me chills. I can hear those conversations in my head. Then talking to providers. So the Meadowlark initiative was something that was launched, around the same time, maybe a little bit after that, about helping moms have the ability to divulge substance use when they're in a maternal health setting, so that they can get support without being shamed, being locked up or anything like that. So that started to come about, and when we were meeting with providers, we were really on the front end of that. What they were saying is, we are afraid to ask because we don't know what to do. Now that the tools are being built and we're understanding it more, and there's clinical treatment available and understanding of how you can use medications and how you involve perinatal health. And, all of these components live together our physical health physicians and people like that feel more comfortable in saying, how are you doing? Because they don't have to have all the answers. They just need to have that trusted relationship. So I think we're getting better. I really do. I have seen massive improvements. There are still absolutely pockets and what's hard is it's very inconsistent. So we may really encourage mom, a mom in a certain town to be like, yes, you've reached out to us. Please go to your hospital. Divulge what's going on. They can get you supports. This is how this works. It's a referral process. Please do that. We'll say that a hundred times and it'll work great. And then one CPS will be at their door threading to take their kiddo away from her or something. That's a very extreme case, but, you know, then you hit that one bump in the road and you're like, Ooh, okay. So maybe the system isn't quite there yet. Right. We've got pockets.

Emily: 21:32

There's a lot of turnover too and to assume that everyone there has the most recent, you know, education or access to the, you know, resources. And yes, maybe they're operating from some old information from the last place they worked where it was like, if a mom opens up about this, you automatically call whomever, you know, versus Exactly.

Carrie: 21:51

Which was literally the law, right? I mean, that was for a long time. So you're right there are things that have changed in statutes. But that takes a really long time for that to, like you said, trickle all the way down to people that are working on the ground. And we always put the children and, you know, their wellbeing in front of mind and it's scary. Right. But we're so much farther ahead than we were even 10 years ago.

Emily: 22:15

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'm thinking especially about smaller communities too. Yeah. Where everybody knows everybody. So maybe there's someone who's like, well, I know that technically I should be able to divulge this problem to my provider, but my provider is also my kids', baseball coach. You never just know someone in one role, it seems like. And so that added fear of like, okay, I, I could say this now, but how long before it finds its way out.

Carrie: 22:40

Absolutely. And that's where that system meets humanity. Yes. And that's what exactly right. And that's what makes human services one of the most messy, quote unquote businesses or industries that you can ever imagine because you are trying to fit systems into human behavior. Right. It is almost impossible to do. I mean, it's actually probably the definition of insanity, really. Right. Because human behavior is absolutely affected by your history and story. The way you are going to think about a situation, the people you're gonna trust without even knowing that that's what's happening is built into your brain and how your brain is structured and the things that have happened to you or around you. And so, yes, whether that is real or not. Our logical brains say HIPAA and, you know, privacy and all of these people that have these jobs are, signed on to that. And the human part of our brains like but it's so-and-so's mother-in-law and I, I don't know. I'm so scared. I'm so scared.

Emily: 23:39

Yeah. Yeah.

Carrie: 23:39

It's the fear and that fear comes also, of course, then from very violent situations, which we know exist in our state. And I think we like to pretend like they don't, but they do. And in rural communities that can be even more prevalent. It doesn't actually get worse in urban settings. It kind of goes the other way. And I think then that's when you're looking at just real true, visceral fear of divulging because of what, what can happen Sure. And what the threats have been. And, and so you've got that whole extra layer.

Emily: 24:12

What does success look like for clients of your programs? Why do you keep coming back to this work? What are the kinds of things that fill your cup, that don't leave you feeling depleted mm-hmm. And exhausted at trying to figure out how to solve these complex problems.

Carrie: 24:27

What success looks like it's my favorite question. Because it has a very intangible answer to it. And I think that throws people off. But really what success looks like in our mind is that we call it the lack of the statistic. So if a family is doing really well, 10 years down the road, we have no statistic, we have no data on them because their kids are going to school, they're integrated into their community, their parents are working. For those of us that are working parents or whatever, just a family unit and we're just living our regular life there's no statistic on me. It's just that we're just living our lives. And the lack of the statistic, which means that their kiddos are not part of the CPS system and that they are just working in the community, whether that's part-time, full-time, going to school, whatever that is. Their kids are in now elementary school, and they are just walking alongside every other kid. They're just integrated into our community. I think we fight this need to be like, this mom was in this horrible situation and then she became president of the United States. Right? It's like we really get amped up about what success looks like and we really want that. Now, do some of those things happen? Absolutely. But they happen with people in all different walks of life. And so we really get hung up on wanting them to, like within 1.2 years they have their education and we kind of forget the long and winding road that everybody's on and that looks different. And so we really try to stay focused on are they integrating into their community? Are they finding their community? Are their children continuing to develop appropriately with all of those norms. There's a big swath of normal development. Are they doing that? Are they happy? Are they healthy? If you called them or walk down the street, and he said, are you generally happy? And they say, yes, I do. I'm happy, I'm healthy. My kids are doing well. That's what we want to see. We have a ton of outputs that we measure over time. Sobriety actually is not one of them which is interesting. Days of sobriety don't really mean a lot. Sobriety abatement technique really is not a long-term recovery. So we talk more about mental wellbeing, your physical health, your community. If you've had a relapse, what happened afterwards? It's more of that longer and winding road. Do your kiddos have some challenges? Okay, that's fine. Do they have the supports that they need to be successful? Those are the kind of things that we see as success. What keeps me coming back? The human beings that I get to be around, and that's clients and staff. Our staff do some of the hardest work and we don't get to talk in public about the really, really hard things that they see and the pretty, pretty tough days. And there is no way to do this work and not have it affect you personally. It has changed who I am as a person, and I say that in a very good way, but that's hard. It's really hard. And I'm not even on the ground. Right. Their ability to come back day after day and continue to walk alongside people that their stories would put most people, in bed for 10 days and to continue to show up and not know what the outcome's going to be and not being able to control it. And still come back as passionate as they were the day before. And probably more passionate. And then like our leadership where they're just constantly full of ideas. They see a problem and all they do is find a solution. They're constantly looking for the solution. So they're kind of like addicting to me. It's really easy to get caught up in the opportunity to solve problems, I think is the best way to say it. And there's always like one little change that we can make. Like one little thing. I was just talking to our clinical director. We have a client in a very specific case and a very needing a very specific thing. And I'm like I think we can solve that. I actually think we can solve that. We can make that better. And I think that it just becomes something that you just solve that next thing and you just see that next thing and that next opportunity and then it's 16 years and you don't know what happened. Yeah. And the resiliency of our clients, I mean, they're the most incredible people I've ever met in my entire life, and most of us wouldn't have lasted a year. I sometimes literally look at our clients and say, how are you still alive? How did you even get here? And it's gonna get better. So I think it's just, yeah it's really hard. It can be really challenging, but it's really, it's also really easy to be inspired. Very easy.

Emily: 28:54

Well, it sounds like to your point about the power of community earlier in the conversation, it sounds like the your team, your coworkers, board, the partners, that becomes its own little community within a community, and that's what, gives you strength and positivity and connection and all the things that community can provide.

Carrie: 29:13

Yes. I think that all the time I say about a lot of our different departments, I'm like, Ooh, I wouldn't wanna be on the other side of them. They are a powerful group. They're warriors. They're absolute warriors, and it becomes part of, like I said, who we are as people and it is our community. It's a very tight knit community. We have 64 employees, but it never feels like that to me.

Emily: 29:32

Mm-hmm.

Carrie: 29:33

I was shocked when we won large employer of the year. Because it doesn't feel like that. Yeah. It feels like a family. That's great. That's a testament to, you as a leader and everyone else that a group that large can, can feel small. Um, well wonderful. I could talk to you all day, thank you so much. Yes. Thank you for doing this.

Emily Freeman: 29:53

The LIFTS Podcast is a project of Healthy Mothers, Healthy Babies The Montana Coalition, a nonprofit dedicated to improving the health, safety, and wellbeing of Montana families in the zero to three years of parenting. Visit us at hmhb-mt.org to learn more about who we are and what we do. Views and opinions expressed in these interviews do not necessarily represent HMHB as an organization. If you have feedback on the podcast or an idea for a future guest or episode, we'd love to hear from you. Take our LIFTS podcast listener survey at hmhb-mt.org/survey or email us at stories@hmbmt.org. Thanks for listening.