CAVO Ep. 63: Using Remote Work to Design Your in Person Life

CAVO Ep. 63: Using Remote Work to Design Your in Person Life

Ali Greene, one of CAVO’s first quarter Visiting Virtual Expert, explores common pitfalls and challenges for remote workers and discusses unique opportunities remote workers can take to design their ideal in-person life. Together with host, Samantha Hedgspeth, PhD, CEO of The Hedgspeth Group, they cover topics such as isolation, community building, health and wellness and more. This highly informative conversation provides the audience with practical tips and strategies for remote work success.

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00:00.96
Samantha Hedgspeth
Our topic will be using remote work to design your in-person life I'm Dr Samantha Hedgepeth CEO of the Hedgepeth Group and today I'm joined by Allie Green remote work. Practitioner and this is our first quarter CAVO visiting virtual expert today. Our discussion will focus on common challenges faced by remote workers and opportunities they have in creating an an optimum in-person life. Welcome Allie and thanks so much for joining us today.

01:19.69
Ali Greene
Hello. Thanks so much for having me I'm so excited to be here and talk about not only the challenges but some opportunities for remote workers because remote work has definitely been a life changing experience for me.

01:33.52
Samantha Hedgspeth
Most definitely and we're excited about your topic of conversation and to learn more about business incubators and the one you have developed at North Central University but to get started. Please tell us a little bit about yourself.

01:49.10
Ali Greene
Yes, so my name is Allie Green I'm the co-author and co-founder of Remote works book which will be coming out this time next year. So very excited. Still a long journey ahead and. This book is really a culmination of a lot of lived experiences that me and my co-author have had from our combined almost 2 decades of various types of remote work experience. Whether it was early in my career working in an office environment. 

And collaborating with a lot of people out in their hometowns as salespeople and really thinking through what does that look like for a startup hybrid environment to my time as the director of people operations and the first people operations hired for the fully distributed company duck duck go um. To you know, leaving that role and and stepping down amidst the the beginnings of the global pandemic to you know coach companies and really advocate for remote work lifestyles before I even knew what the whole world was gonna be thrown into. Just because I had seen so much how it impacted my personal life as a digital nomad and traveling the world full time while growing my career on the leadership team of an organization full time and wanting to share that other people could. Make that happen for themselves as well and so I spent a good time of the pandemic. Really you know, supporting people in this transition from office culture to really embracing how they can make working remotely. 

Help their businesses thrive but also help their employees thrive and that led me to this journey of putting my thoughts on paper with a good friend of mine Tamara Sanderson and and the release of our upcoming book so that we can spread the word and help other people shape not just their businesses but their lives.

03:49.12
Samantha Hedgspeth
Excellent. You made a great use of that pandemic time and we look forward to hearing about it. We look forward to that book I was I just made a note personally because I was like yeah I'm gonna get that as soon as it's released. So.

03:49.16
Ali Greene
Through remote work.

04:06.34
Samantha Hedgspeth
Just to kick off our questions question number 1 Why do you think there is such a focus on remote worker isolation.

04:12.51
Ali Greene
Yeah I think this is really interesting and especially in the current climate It's so hard to make sense of everything that we've experienced at a really global human level. And so when I think of people who have just started their remote work journey and maybe all they've ever known is what it's felt like for the past two years working from home. They they really clutch onto this word isolation because it's something tangible that.

04:44.57
Samantha Hedgspeth
Who.

04:48.62
Ali Greene
We are all feeling. It's a shared feeling amongst many circles regardless of what country you're living in regardless of if you're a male or female if you're in tech if you're not in tech I think that it it has become a relatable emotion unfortunately in 2022 and and. Scientifically from a psychological standpoint. Our brains are just naturally hardwired to latch on to to negative emotions. It's a survival mechanism right? It's how we've been able to adapt and evolve and what's really hard when we talk about remote work is we'll see studies like.

05:22.77
Ali Greene
You know remote Worker isolation is a top concern for remote managers or employees are feeling more lonely than ever and when I see these things. It makes me a little angry. Um, and then I have to take a step back and realize that not everyone's had the luxury of having the experiences. Of remote work that I've had pre-pandemic and framing the conversations in this way. It's hard right? because it's it's making it easier to justify keeping things in the status quo thinking about this shining light of potentially returning to an office or having a hybrid instead of asking more difficult questions. Such as what is the true purpose of an office. What is the true purpose of Community. How do we want to connect with each other not only at a professional level but a personal level as Well. And so when I start thinking about it from that lens I think about human motivation.

06:18.81
Ali Greene
And how human motivation for remote workers. Pre pandemic could have been things like even though they really wanted flexibility. It was inherent personal value for them. They were willing and excited to make connections outside of the office culture. They were you know, very skilled. Going and co-working and going to meetups locally and networking. They were people interested in the digital nomad lifestyle something that I've done for for many years traveling the world and and living in different countries while working remotely.

06:51.50
Samantha Hedgspeth
Um, over.

06:52.71
Ali Greene
Whereas now the motivation for remote work is quite different. The value is in things like well if if school is getting shut down because there's been a positive Covid case in my child's school I now have child care flexibility and don't have to lose a paycheck because I can work remotely. Or I can commute less and have more time to spend with my family or I'm dealing with mental health struggles or physical health struggles or I'm caring for an elderly and so the the motivation has become a lot wider for remote work which I think is really great.


07:29.10
Ali Greene
But it's forgetting to ask questions such as well. These people that had these in real life friendships at work. Maybe they haven't had the opportunity to cultivate these things elsewhere and so therefore they are feeling that isolation and and just one final thought on this. Um. Because I love gallup I'm a big I'm a big nerd when it comes to you know, reading about management studies and theories and things like that it is 2 kind of conflicting things Gallup had done a study. Um, many years ago talking about the importance of having a best friend at work and I think it's something that is very relatable for this second group of people that used work as their social outlet. They used work is that escape away from their home life and now they don't have that and so they haven't learned what to replace that with yet and there hasn't. 

But a lot of research to my knowledge about how to update that in a remote setting and then pre pandemic actually gaup wrote another really interesting article in November Twenty Nineteen and I reread it recently and the points hit home more than ever and this article said. That isolation is structural. It's about people not getting the information they need not getting the opportunities that they deserve at work whereas loneliness becomes emotional. And every time I think about the remote worker journey because there have been times I felt isolated there have been times I felt lonely I think about that that question of was it a structural thing in the team or was it an emotional thing related to my life and how managers should. Tackle that issue how you having self agency as it as a remote worker should tackle that issue I think depends on what the answer to that question is.

09:20.43
Samantha Hedgspeth
Everything you just said is so interesting and so Relatable. So Definitely you have felt isolated working remotely before and of course the pandemic has turned that up so many levels So I Just heard you mention. You know whether the situation for each employee is structural or emotional. What are your go to strategies to combat this isolation are your solutions also structured based on structural or emotional.

09:55.19
Ali Greene
Yeah, so the answer and I give this answer a lot in in for many questions and I think it gets on people's nerves is really it depends. Um the answer to the question really. Depends on the core root issue and and I think with a lot of things we're seeing um I'm a millennial and I think it's kind of funny hearing stories about my generation and like a need for instant gratification. And in remote work I think you're seeing a lot of instant gratification for for problems that are actually root cause issues. It's like oh people are feeling isolated and lonely at work. So Let's do Zoom happy hours or let's get like the donut buddy slack plugin and yeah, there's a time and place for those things.

10:42.83
Ali Greene
But I think they're band-aid solutions. It's not really going deep and spending the time being uncomfortable spending the time being a little bit slower saying okay something doesn't feel right at an individual level I need to take the time.

10:50.33
Samantha Hedgspeth
Oh.

11:02.82
Ali Greene
And yes, maybe that's going to impact my work day today but I need to take the time to figure out why so that I know how to solve that issue so that it doesn't happen again or if it's at the team level. You know, cultivating conversations with vulnerability with the team to understand what's actually going on. The team level so that we know how to fix it instead of just in a way throwing all these ideas out there and seeing what sticks and so to give some some concrete examples I think about times where I felt the emotion of loneliness as a remote worker.

11:40.50
Ali Greene
And I think about things like I moved to a new city in the middle of the pandemic. Yes I moved with my partner but it's still an incredibly isolating experience to move to a new city in a new country where you don't speak the language. In the middle of a pandemic where people aren't necessarily trying to go out and make new friends and try to build community I'm an extremely social person I Love doing activities. It's important to me to have a strong friendship circle and and so going through that experience.

12:14.78
Ali Greene
I found it hard to make these deep and meaningful friendships and I felt lonely at times and and yes I had people I could connect with over Zoom I talked with my family back in the United States but it's not the same.

12:29.72
Ali Greene
And and so you know in some ways it was great because there there was this shared vulnerability that many people were feeling lonely during the pandemic but the bandage solution and and and what I did in 2020 was I did a lot of. Zoom things not only with colleagues and companies that I consulted with but also friends I learned how to make payia on Zoom I did you know like games night on Zoom and it's exhausting to be in front of your computer every day and so going through. In a way that emotional event made me realize the times that I felt lonely working remotely It was not because of the connections or the lack of connections that I had through my computer because I could find ways to make that happen. It was because of the lack of community I had around me in my real life and so what I think that means for remote workers. What I think that means for remote organizations is to cultivate a culture where it's okay to set boundaries to make sure that your employees know.

13:23.54
Samantha Hedgspeth
Who.

13:40.33
Ali Greene
That you do not need to be attached to your computer from the hours of 9 to 5 during the whole day and ski stay in front of a computer's screen while sitting alone in a home office that can be structurally very isolating and it's preventing you from being involved in your local community. Which can lead to those emotions of isolation and so that's like 1 very personal example that I think about what does that mean for me as the remote worker I had to learn some hard truths about myself I am a lot more social than I realized I always thought I was quite introverted. Um, and I still think that I need that alone time to to. Get energy. But also I need deep friendships and and then I crave that and also as a manager am I making sure that my employees feel autonomous enough to.

14:35.40
Ali Greene
Figure out what their version of that is in their local communities and be able to step away from the computer in order to get their needs met first as a human so that they can then show up to be the best worker on the screen because it should be human first worker second not the other way around.

14:49.57
Samantha Hedgspeth
Um, so with that said, then um I guess with your particular case. Did you find a structural solution or an emotional solution like did you relocate to a Starbucks or. Sit outside. Um, how did you optimize a better working condition and lifestyle during that period that you felt very isolated.

15:18.31
Ali Greene
Yeah, so I think that's a really great question. Um, for me I Love being active having a component of health in my life as a pillar is something that I realized is very important to me and so I structure my day around.

15:36.88
Ali Greene
Group fitness classes. Um, so twice a week in my local town. Um I'm lucky enough that there have been opportunities for in-person fitness classes again and going to those and having that routine of these two days my schedule is dictated by this not by my work.

15:37.30
Samantha Hedgspeth
Um, okay.

15:55.26
Samantha Hedgspeth
Oh.

15:56.31
Ali Greene
Calls and I prioritize going to this class because it's going to give me energy. It's going to let me see the same people's faces day in day out even if even if these people you know may not be lifelong friends it it is a way to start getting to know the local community especially as someone new moving somewhere.


16:16.20
Ali Greene
And having that routine that gives me energy to be able to bring creativity back into my work and so structural changes I had to make was you know, blocking out my calendar to make sure I prioritize going to those classes. Um, adding extra time for coffee with. With people in case, you know after class they wanted to grab a cup of coffee moving around meeting times. Um, with co-workers um to to prioritize that and to to also like share vulnerability with with colleagues about what was going on. Um. So that I could ask for more accountability. Um, especially on days where I knew I wouldn't be getting those types of needs met and so if those classes are on Tuesdays if by Friday you know I haven't had another opportunity to do anything. Maybe by Friday afternoon. It's really hard for me to motivate myself to commit to the expectations I set out so having a reminder from from my team on Thursday and like maybe that's when structurally we just do our asynchronous check-in on Thursday now instead of Friday.

17:28.47
Ali Greene
Like how's the week going What else do we need to get done is the best way to to plan for those types of events.

17:35.46
Samantha Hedgspeth
I Really like that So employers and employees really have to have the rapport of trust and accountability in order to have that flexible structure.

17:48.45
Ali Greene
Exactly.

17:50.53
Samantha Hedgspeth
Where you could where you can go to your exercise classes and so forth and it just really I'm sure breaks up the monotony of sitting on the computer a solid 8 to 10 hours to get up an exercise or sit at Starbucks meet someone for conversation I think that is a great solution. So specifically, let's dive down into rural reemergence and talent from developing countries from your work if you could expound on that please.

18:21.23
Ali Greene
Yeah, definitely so ah outside of like my life like I live in a small town now. It's by choice I feel very lucky to have been able to make that choice I've lived in places like Cape Town mexico city New York City Philadelphia Washington Dc so to be able to say like. Those places are amazing. But I really like smaller communities and small towns like that's awesome, but there is you know a good amount of of privilege there because it was my choice. What I see that's really interesting about remote work and and some other thought leaders that I really admire that are leading great conversations around this are talking about the lottery of birth and how remote work is giving back to equalizing that lottery so before.


19:09.21
Ali Greene
You were born somewhere. Let's say you were born in Rwanda or let's say you were born in San Francisco by nature of where you were born chances are the person in San Francisco all other things being equal could have access ah to more jobs.

19:28.11
Ali Greene
And more high paying jobs and therefore could excel in their career and that sucks like there's no other. There's there's no elegant way to say that I'm sure there is but but just frankly like that's with how connected we are with technology and with the internet like that's terrible.


19:48.70
Ali Greene
Um, and and so the choice that the person had in Rwanda was like okay well I can leave my family I can leave my culture I can move to San Francisco and I can try to get a job as well or I can live with my family and I can live in my culture and my country. But maybe I can't get those same opportunities and like I have to redefine my dreams but with remote work. We're offering people the ability to work anywhere which means that person no longer has to make the choice to leave their home country. They can work.


20:25.15
Ali Greene
Where they were born but there's another layer to that that I find fascinating which is the money that they're earning from their job is going back to those local communities and you're starting to see a reemergence of these rural areas.


20:42.91
Ali Greene
So 2 people I I like want to give shout outs to that that does like excellent work in this space 1 is Joe Palmer um and another is Lorraine Charles and I spoken with them a lot throughout the time of the pandemic and just hearing their stories Joe is in Australia. She's the founder of an organization called pointer remote. And really highlights. What does it mean if there's one additional high earning paycheck coming into a rural community in Australia like what does that mean, not just for the the person earning that money. But for the whole entire community in terms of like access to infrastructure hospitals like.

21:14.80
Samantha Hedgspeth
Right.

21:20.61
Ali Greene
Having more communities being able to open up a coffee shop so that people can have friends and not be lonely and things of that nature and Lorraine Lorraine is someone who who works with refugees um and talks about refugees and remote work and I think there's there's going to be so much more of this moving forward.

21:40.20
Ali Greene
And companies that are looking for talent that are struggling to find talent where their headquarters are now have the whole entire world to to do recruiting and that's a message that that if you haven't heard that message you know 2 years into the pandemic please do more research on remote work like.

21:48.17
Samantha Hedgspeth
Right.

21:59.40
Ali Greene
1 of the coolest things about really being open to a distributed company is this access to talent. But and it's mutually beneficial and that's what's really cool is it's going to help the company. Get really interesting talent in the door. Get those new perspectives and it's going to help. These areas around the world just continue to to grow and change and provide opportunities that may not have existed otherwise.

22:26.61
Samantha Hedgspeth
Yes, I Totally agree, Awesome perspective and so can you tell us a little bit about digital. No mad life. It sounds like you've already lived it. But if you could expound on that for us.

22:38.45
Ali Greene
Yes I I would love to go back to that lifestyle never say never um so I have always been fascinated by travel.


22:56.40
Ali Greene
Um, when I was growing up I went I went to four different middle schools and so I like to joke that that was like the turning point in my life where I realized that change is constant in life and at some point everybody learns that lesson and for me it was during these like profound developing years. Um, and so I think back to that moment and I think that's why I became a digital nomad. Um, because I just really like variety I really like seeing things from different perspectives I remember when I was in university I studied abroad. Um I went to university in Montreal. So as an english speaking American person. 

Going to Montreal already. You could have considered that studying abroad because most of the things infantryal are in french and so by the time I decided to truly study your abroad I was like okay I want to go explore the world but I want to go see a different english speaking country and just see how similar or different it is. To the United States to Canada to these places that I've seen already at the age of you know 20 years old 19 years old but however, old I was um so so I went to the to Dublin for for a study abroad and I remember like that was my first time going overseas and I stepped foot. In Dublin and was like I feel so at home here I didn't know anybody I looked the wrong way when I was trying to cross the street and it took me a few a few tries to make sure I didn't get hit by any cars I didn't know how to get around I could you know struggled sometimes to understand different accents.

24:27.53
Samantha Hedgspeth
Oh.

24:29.14
Ali Greene
Ah, of of the people living there and they struggled to understand my very thick Midwest American accent but I loved it. I Loved this idea of problem solving and feeling foreign and trying to make a city that I didn't know anything about feel like home and and so when people think about Digital Nomads. I Think the conversation goes so much deeper than these are people that like to travel and maybe they want to have financial freedom or they want to just freelance and bum around and go from one country to another the types of people that are attracted to this lifestyle. Have these incredible skillsets that will make any company better because in order to be digital Nomad You need to think on your feet. You need to problem solve you need to quickly adapt to New Scenarios. You need to be creative with how you're planning your life. Um, and you need to.

25:23.30
Samantha Hedgspeth
Or home.

25:27.56
Ali Greene
Be, okay, doing it alone or building community really fast and those are all skill sets that any team regardless of if you're a designing team an hr team and engineer team can benefit from that type of like personal competency. And so digital nomad life for me has gone through a lot of variations I've traveled alone I've traveled with community groups I've planned meetups and retreats I've traveled with my partner. Um I've stayed in co-living. Gone to big cities I've gone to rural areas I've been to Asia when most of my team was still in the United States so dealing with time zone difficulties. Um I've traveled really fast like moving to a different country every two weeks I've traveled quite slowly staying places for you know, two or three months


26:20.80
Ali Greene
Um, for me, it's just been about exploring what are all of the different ways that any 1 person could create their lifestyle now that you're removing the forcing function of location that a job used to have on somebody.

26:36.11
Samantha Hedgspeth
So as I'm listening to you. It really reminds me of the animal Kingdom where it sounds like you know how bees pollinate and they fly from flower to flower.

26:50.18
Ali Greene
Yeah, yeah.

26:52.18
Samantha Hedgspeth
And it sounds like that this is a pollination process for talent because really, you can touch the world right from your living room and that sounds like you've had a wonderful experience. A wonderful life and just exposure to things we couldn't just. Catch and a 9 to 5 in our local offices. Um, was.

27:13.26
Ali Greene
Yeah, exactly and you learn so much too like I've learned so much from people that were my in real life coworkers because I randomly met them and they were also digital nomads and so we just decided to.


27:30.43
Ali Greene
Be friends and work at a cafe together and they would talk through a project they were working on and I would learn something that I could bring back to my organization. Um, and those types of conversations I didn't see them happening a lot when I was just living.

27:31.32
Samantha Hedgspeth
Yeah.

27:49.96
Ali Greene
In Philadelphia for example.

27:50.38
Samantha Hedgspeth
Right? right? So Then that brings us to our point about inclusion. So with this type of structural layout. Can you dive into inclusive opportunities?

28:09.48
Ali Greene
Yes, So um, this is a whole and other fascinating area that I think people have barely begun to scratch the surface on um inclusion as a word is very powerful and can mean so many different things to different people. And I think if you if you really take a step back and look at different groups of people that exist in the world that want opportunities to intellectually challenge or stimulate themselves. They want opportunities to be able to. Earn a living and have a better life for themselves. Um, they want to overcome physical limitations that they may have had in the past or overcome traumatic events that they've had that have prevented them from you know, reaching their full potential.. There's. All of these things and I can't speak to all of them because I only have my one lived experience to relate to where remote work when done correctly should become a catalyst to. 

Allow more room for these people to be able to find themselves in their team without having to have the same pressure that showing up to an office every day means and what that looks like is. Say that you're someone that has extreme anxiety or someone who has a you know limitation socially that really prevents you from going into these spaces where you have to have. An answer in a meeting because you're sitting in a meeting room and people are expecting you to come up with information on the spot. But that's not going to be healthy for you because it's going to be triggering remote work can remove that limitation because. If you fully embrace something like asynchronous communication and you share information to everybody in an equal and transparent way then the whole team can take that information. 

And sift through it in a way that makes sense for how they learn for how they digest the information and then everyone on the team can choose how they show up with their opinions with their questions and the responsibility of managers the responsibility of leaders in remote companies is to make sure that.


30:53.84
Ali Greene
Everybody who is a stakeholder in a project is getting their chance to show up in their unique way and so for some people it is showing up to a synchronous meeting and being able to spitball off each other with ideas for some people that's gonna be terrible. It's gonna you know, push them back into you know. Outside of their comfort zone and so giving someone an opportunity to in the comfort of their own home in their safe space read through information digest that information in their own time. Be able to write questions in advance and share them privately with the manager is still a way to like equally contribute. And provide insight and value to the organization and and that's just 1 example and I think there's so many more examples you you can think through in terms of even just ah, just like so many things um like I think about people that have you know. 

Physical disabilities and I I think about the time I lived in New York and how difficult it must have been to get around. Um just by nature of what's accessible for for folks. Um, and. You don't necessarily have to think of accessibility in the same way if you're letting people decide how they want to show up and you're still valuing people the same and and so it's challenging now and we're seeing a lot of you know stories come up about this a lot of reports. A lot of people struggling with this is like this idea of hybrid. 

It immediately. Makes that playing field unequal and so you have to be even more intentional about making sure people still get to choose how they show up because what what matters is the intellectual value. They're adding to the company if that's the type of role that you're hired for for a designer. You know how creative are your designs. How how thought provoking are the designs. How aligned are they with the brands not are you really great at showing up to the office and you know talking people over coffee and winning people over with your design like what actually matters in the end.

32:54.70
Samantha Hedgspeth
Yeah, Well I think that's true because if you look at it universities have been using the asynchronous and synchronous model and it gives people the flexibility to choose if they want to be live and in person. Or if they want to do their work on their own time and just submit so it is a model out there and I think that we probably should benchmark that and use it in the office to your suggestion. So With that said, how can companies. Um, support their teams to set up their best lifestyle to get more positive outcomes. You just shared asynchronous Synchronos are there any other examples that you have.

33:42.66
Ali Greene
Yes, so there's 3 things I want to touch on here one is um in the day to day being intentional about setting up the workday for their team in a meaningful way. So what I mean by that. Is I love the idea of having a team charter where and this is something we write about in our book where the teams decide how they want to show up for each other based on the diverse type of learning styles communication styles time zones coming into play that make up the team and so.


34:19.90
Ali Greene
What this can look like is a set of shared expectations of what are the standard operating behaviors for the team and and 1 thing I like to talk about is when it comes to setting up the workday. There are things that everyone in the team should be aligned about like this shared. Standard operating behaviors and expectations. Um I relate that a lot to things like what tools are we using documentation for so things aren't living in 10 different areas. So if someone has a question they know exactly where to go in their online space to find the answer to that question. What I don't think those expectations go around are things that should be individual choice going back to asynchronous communication going back to autonomy and trust and so with that when you think about setting up the workday. How can you allow enough flexibility.



35:12.24
Ali Greene
And teach your employees how they should manage their energy not their time and this is another thing that we write a lot a lot that I feel super passionate about it's not about isolating yourself in front of a computer from 9 to 5 in your home. It's about inspiring your employees to find a unique cadence that works for them. And making sure they're taking the appropriate breaks as it makes sense and so whether that's to combat things like loneliness and isolation as we talked about with earlier examples or if it's frankly, just because um, you know my co-author she's a night owl and she can she can get a lot of work done in the middle of the night. I like to to work in small little chunks and and take a lot of breaks throughout the day on our circadian rhythm is just different from each other and knowing that we're able to have open communication around. 

Okay knowing that our work styles are very different. What does that mean for our team. What should our shared expectations. Be. And how can we lean into our differences to make the work better and what's really great is she can work on something all night her time she wants I'll see it. You know the next day and I'll be able to pick it up in the morning do a few hours of work. Go to my workout class hang out in the sunshine for a little bit and then have a meeting with her when it's nighttime again for her because that's what works best for us and and so it's this really fluid way of coming together and thinking about things like.


36:43.54
Ali Greene
What's the most respectful meeting times. Not business hours and and so just changing people's mindset so that's number 1 um and and that's something managers have direct control over and so you can manage your team to make those subtle changes so that working together feels good for everybody.


37:01.97
Ali Greene
Raising it up a level. Um I think about what leadership teams can do and I think about things like meetups and retreats and how should they be thinking about bringing people together in real life like when does it make sense to. Do that in a safe and meaningful way for people. How can you do that when certain people are not feeling comfortable to travel for whatever reason. Um, what does that look like and what is the purpose of those meetups and retreats. But I do think that companies will start to be more intentional.


37:36.30
Ali Greene
About that as a activity to not only get work done but also to build culture in their companies instead of just being a perk that they mentioned like oh we do one meetup a year or something like that. It'll have to go deeper about why? Do we do this meet up what are the goals. What happens if I don't want to come what happens if. I do want to come what happens if I can't get child care but I want to come and so so answering all those difficult questions is going to be something. The leadership team is going to have to decide how they're going to want to spend their money how they're going to run to write policies against that. Um and and things of that nature and then from an hr standpoint.


38:15.30
Ali Greene
Kind of the third trio and the third bucket of responsibilities I think hr leaders and organizations will start to think of new perks and benefits that they will offer their team members knowing that not every landscape with remote work is the same. So right now. It's. Quite common to offer a co-working benefit for example for a team member I see that a lot of remote companies can say okay, we want you to be more productive if you don't work well at home then will pay x amounts type in for you to go work at a co-working. Well what if you live in a town where there is no co-working. Um. Do not get the benefit. How can you maybe use that money instead to create pop-ups at a local restaurant where everyone that works remotely in that town can meet for lunch once a month and talk about their different projects. They're working on and you get that cross-pollination of ideas to come back to the company.


39:08.87
Ali Greene
You get that fighting against loneliness and fatigue your company gets you know, really great branding of being a supporter of local communities all across the world by putting together this type of event on. So so that's like a lofty dream I have I'd love to see more companies doing something like that. But how can we start thinking outside of the box when it comes to perks and benefits.

39:26.84
Samantha Hedgspeth
Yes.

39:28.61
Ali Greene
Make sure we're including some of these things like what if my employee wants to be a digital nomad. How do I help them set up for success. What does that look like can my employees spend one month a year abroad can they spend more than that abroad. Um why? how? and so starting to think through what are those perks like.


39:47.20
Ali Greene
What how does that align with a company's culture. Why would they offer that perk to people. Um, how are they going to use it as part of their recruiting strategy their retention strategy and on all of those ah Hr questions I think are going to be even more important for Hr leaders to answer.

40:02.86
Samantha Hedgspeth
Yes, most definitely most definitely they will have to come up with a new mix with all of your bullet points. So It really has been a pleasure speaking with you Alie if our listening audience wanted to contact you for services or. Stay in contact to get your book Once? It's released How can they reach you.

40:24.96
Ali Greene
Yes, so I am on Linkedin. Please come find me, um, you can reach out to me personally on Linkedin. My name is Allie Green e at the end of green. Ah or you can follow our book and the book's journey both on Linkedin Remote works book. Or on our website http://remoteworksbook.com. 

So I'm looking forward to you know hearing from people that listened to the podcast today and have questions who have started answering some of the questions we talked about already for themselves and I'd love to hear what you're doing in your organizations. Help your employees design their ideal life around remote work.

41:06.13
Samantha Hedgspeth
Nice so we want to thank everyone for joining us in supporting the center for the advancement of virtual organizations today. We truly appreciate your insights Allie and we know our listeners will benefit from your experience.

41:23.58
Ali Greene
Thanks so much for having me.

41:23.97
Samantha Hedgspeth
Once again, Thank you.