VC4HW Ep2: The Mental Aspect of Running

Join Dr. Aurélia Bickler and her guest Dr. Grayson Kimball as they discuss the mental aspects of running. Dr. Kimball, Mental Performance Coach and Sport Psychology Consultant with the Association for Applied Sport Psychology, describes the process of training our minds to reach our exercise goals.  

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

00:00.35
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
I am the center's director Dr. Aurelia Bickler and today I want to welcome Dr Grayson Kimball program chair for the sports psychology program at North Central University Mental Performance coach running his own practice in the Boston area hi how are you today.

00:18.69
Dr. Grayson Kimball
I'm doing Well how are you.

00:20.10
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
I'm good. Thank you? Um, thank you so much for joining us today I'm really looking forward to this podcast today. Um, this is such a beautiful topic. We're going to talk about that you call grateful running and I want to I want to learn more about it. Tell me what is grateful running.

00:33.79
Dr. Grayson Kimball
So grateful running just the name is the title of my book but it actually stems from 2 of my passions which is the grateful dead and Marathon running and I merged the 2 together this.

00:39.90
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yes.

00:51.34
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Idea happened way back in 2006 I was actually training for the Chicago marathon at the time and you know on every run I'm always listening to the grateful dead and always using mental training skills and as my ah. Profession was starting to grow and I was gaining more experience and giving all these workshops I was saying to myself. You know this is really really helpful stuff and I need to put this into a book. So I'd come back from a from a run you know make make notes and it took a good I would say. 5 years of just writing editing thinking changing revising and then I believe it was 2010 the first version of grateful running came out. 

Soon as it came out I was already working on making some changes to it and once the pandemic hit actually I had the time to make some of those revisions and some of those changes so about a year and a half ago the second edition of grateful running. Came out and so that's that's the genesis behind the book the idea and again obviously merging it. You know under the mental coaching but again taking the running specific area and the grateful dead and merging it together into grateful running.

02:11.60
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
It's so powerful and I have to tell you I've always Dreamt to be a runner and I am not and I'm terrified of becoming a runner so I would love to learn more about how do ah how does one mental train right? towards towards running.

02:22.30
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Yeah, well so you brought up a a really good point. You know that you want to be a runner but you're fearful of running and so forth. So when any athlete and if we use a runner when any athlete if they create what I call an avoidance mindset right.

02:38.55
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
And here.

02:40.85
Dr. Grayson Kimball
They will figure out a reason not to do something even though they want to do it right? It's really easy for them to think of why I can't do it right? Well I've never been a runner and I'm too old. So Why start now or. You know I heard that people who run are going to have bad knees by the time that they're 60 and I don't want that to happen to me right? and we don't even know if that's true. Whatever so we we develop that avoidance mindset and we'll go through whatever we possibly can to convince ourselves that this isn't for me.

03:13.16
Dr. Grayson Kimball
So I like to kind of shape it you know I guess reshape it and and structure the mindset of having now that that achievement mindset and the achievement mindset is okay, this is what I want to do and here is how I'm going to do it and you know when you. Have more of that achievement mindset. You're more likely to set more realistic goals and and then once you start the process. 

Okay like I'm not going to go out and run a marathon tomorrow. Let me see if I can run a mile right? and then you know maybe the following week. It's a mile and a half. And then maybe in three weeks I'm running two miles so you literally you know progressively start and you know training for a marathon is a marathon I mean it it can take anywhere you know from five to six months and I've worked with many runners ah coaching them mentally and also when I've coached Marathon teams like. 

Designing the whole program and and and and so forth I have people that have never run before ever and but they want to raise money for particular charity and they're going to do it for the marathon and so they literally start with a baseline of 0 and five months later they're out there running the Boston Marathon

04:26.56
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
So you talked about starting at one mile right and I have to tell you during the pandemic I thought I could I like this is going to be my goal but I think after I don't know two hundred yards I thought to myself. Okay, can I really do that. How does one start.

04:44.83
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
From really having no running experience. What is that journey of that that initial aspect of the journey. What does that look like.

04:51.83
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Well so when you set out to do something the the end goal is you want to feel good about yourself. So okay, if I've never run before and I want to run even just you know set the goal of like a five k road race you know in a 5 k is three point one miles right. So you might say okay on day one of my training I'm literally going to try to run a half a mile right? and you can map it out. Okay, it's from here down the street and back that is a half a mile and you do it.

05:24.18
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
We are.

05:25.72
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Right? And again, not that you have to run the full thing you might run to the end of the street then you might walk for a minute and then slowly get back into a jog and then you're back to your house and then you get that half a mile. Well the goal was to make it through that half a mile. You did it that should make you feel good. And you don't have to again run the entire time. You've never run before right? like half a mile That's the longest that I've ever run and then maybe the next day you go out, you do another half mile and then once that half mile starts to get a little easy which it will like the more you so you stick with it then it's okay, maybe.

05:46.43
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah, yeah.

06:02.30
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Three quarters of a mile right? and then that becomes the next goal and then again it might take you a week right? to reach that that number but the point is once you start achieving these goals every time you do it. You really start to feel good about yourself.

06:07.51
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah.

06:18.30
Dr. Grayson Kimball
When you feel good about yourself. You want to continue to feel good about yourself and then by setting these manageable challenging yet realistic goals even though in your mind. Well, it's only a mile like this guy's running fifteen miles well that's that guy like let's not compare ourselves to someone else.

06:35.99
Dr. Grayson Kimball
You know my goal isn't to run a marathon. My goal is to run a five k I have to be able to run 3.1 and I'm just starting slowly slowly slowly and the next thing you know you're running a mile. You're running two miles and then at that point with anything if you can run two miles

06:54.68
Dr. Grayson Kimball
When you're done with that run if you said to yourself if it was life or death and I had to run one more mile could I do it and your answer is probably yes right? and it's the same with somebody who's training for a marathon right? They might run eighteen miles for a training run and it's a pretty taxing eighteen miles left.

07:13.89
Dr. Grayson Kimball
But if they say if I had to go one more could I do it right? and 99% of the time I could it may not be my fastest mile but I could probably still go that one extra mile and so again, it's those little successes that start to build confidence.

07:28.33
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
I Love it because there's ah, there's a significant shift between the beginning process of of just being okay with where you are and embracing being a beginner and then at some point putting that pressure.. There's There's that point where you say Okay, now you're going to think what if you needed to run extra. And I Love I Love that shift I'm going to actually try it and I promise you I'm going to follow up with you and tell you what I'm doing um is it possible for somebody to become a runner if they have a physical injury.

07:58.91
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Yeah, yeah, um I know just you're looking at one So I've had you know numerous injuries you know and I've trained runners who you know they're starting their marathon training. They're relatively healthy although they might say you know I had something up with my knee you know I'm not sure.

08:18.57
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Three weeks into training they're at physical therapy. You know the the knee is not good but I still want to run this marathon and we just really modify their their training program and they end up doing it and again, that's more of the extreme case because that person you know, made that commitment.

08:22.24
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah, so.

08:38.26
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Ah, to run the the the marathon. But if you just wanted to start recreationally running and if you said well you know my feet kind of hurt a little bit when I run or I've noticed after a mile or two like my knee starts to act up. A lot of that stems from improper footwear. So it's like well I bought a $200 pair of sneakers that has to help there could be a 200 or you know dollar pair of sneakers but is it the right sneaker for you like do you have flat feet. You know, do you have you know? do you pronate? do you and.

09:06.14
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah.

09:10.66
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Because of that you might mute orthotics. You know you might need a different type of shoe and actually a less expensive sneaker might be more appropriate and you might say well I don't like the color. It's not about how you look it. Can it put your body from a anatomical position.

09:20.81
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Next. Breath.

09:27.53
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Are you balanced? you know? So you're not injuring yourself and and when you take care of all of those details. Um, that can you know have an extreme ah positive effect on injury reduction. It's like you always run the risk of getting injured doing anything.

09:33.21
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Just past.

09:47.38
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Um, you know, even walking you know like if you're not wearing wearing the right walking shoes. Well you still might walk for 2 years but then 2 years in that next day you go out and wow my foot hurts never hurt before well it's the cumulative effect of doing a lot of walking.

09:47.58
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yes.

10:03.66
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Not wearing the right shoes and eventually it'll catch up to you.

10:05.77
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
So where does one go to to get I Guess fitted for the right shoes.

10:10.97
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Yeah, so well. For example here in Boston there's a chain of running stores called marathon sports and they are. They are a running specific store like you could go to a sporting goods store and they will have like you know the same running shoes. But they're not looking at at your feet. You know they're not actually watching you run so when you go to a a a specialty running store. They'll have a treadmill they'll say hey hop on the treadmill. Let's watch your gate. You know again does your hip.

10:38.39
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Um, her hair and there.

10:46.16
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Kind of flare out to the left is your knee buckling to the right you know and they say okay so your feet are this this or that you're going to want that type of shoe and then so you're getting fit specifically for your weight body type foot issues and then then they might say you know while this shoe will give you some.

10:52.76
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Interesting.

11:04.26
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
So.

11:05.24
Dr. Grayson Kimball
You may want to go to a you know sport podiatrist. You know, maybe get you know custom-made orthotics even though it might cost a little money now it'll you know in the long run it. It pays off I've been in Orthotics for 20 years you know from marathon running and I mean again I've had my share of.

11:25.80
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Injuries but the the main issues of my feet just not being in the proper positions all been remedied from the orthodox.

11:33.71
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
That's amazing. That's amazing. Um, what about an emotional injury.

11:37.50
Dr. Grayson Kimball
So that's where I come in well dealing with the psychology behind it and you know so a lot 1 thing that I stress a lot with sports like and mental conditioning is I use the following 3 words to really describe what? what what? I do and it's think feel perform. And if you take it into the context of running I modify to think feel run. 

So the way you think affects how you feel which affects how you run and how you're running will affect that next thought that next feeling right? and becomes 1 big cycle. So if you're going into a run. The first time and you know you're a little nervous. How do I'm not sure if I can do this so the thoughts are somewhat negative again, not that you know I'm the worst but like I don't know if I can finish this whatever. Well, how's that going to make you feel might make you feel sad, right? It might make you feel you know, anxious, you know what? ah.

12:27.75
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
No.

12:32.38
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Now if you're feeling that way you're not going to run as you know effectively efficiently smoothly as you possibly can like your body is literally going to be tight. Well that's not going to help so you need to change the way you think change the way you feel and then ultimately control.

12:51.91
Dr. Grayson Kimball
How you run so you know when it comes to the think and the field again that also ties into your goals all right like what's the goal today and okay might be to run a half a mile all right? That's the end goal. How am I going to do that. Well the first step is I literally need to get from my driveway to the end of the street. Right? And then from the end of the street I'm gonna be going. You know around this block to the school star trek and so you kind of break down that run into these little segments and so now what are you thinking about? you're thinking about getting from segment a to segment b to c to d right? and coming back.

13:27.40
Dr. Grayson Kimball
That's a lot different than saying you know I better not get tired. This is gonna be too hard right? And so when you have that right type of goal that process oriented goal. It helps you think clearer you feel better. Okay I made it to that first benchmark right? I made it to the second one. Oh I'm feeling pretty good right? And soon as I loop around here.

13:39.53
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah, so.

13:46.30
Dr. Grayson Kimball
I'm gonna be on on the on the way back. So now instead of oh I have 5 you know blocks to meet now I'm down to 2 right now I'm on that last one and hey I have you know that final little stretch. Let me see if I can sprint it right? It's you know.

13:57.99
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Another range.

14:00.65
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Ah, hundred yards right let me see if I can sprint it and also now you're feeling good. You feel confident and again at all kind of cycles and but it's important to be in control of what you're thinking because if you're not that negativity can creep in. We know which can certainly harm you from a emotional standpoint. But another thing that I wanted to mention being that I'm here in in Boston and I can't believe that next year will be the 10 year anniversary of the bombings at the Boston Marathon and I remember you know, not only when it happened but that. Next year when I was working with 1 of the marathon teams and there were a lot of runners who had run it the previous year obviously couldn't finish you know because the bombs went off to stop the race and they were having a lot of those thoughts. But what happened what if this happens again and you like and again that emotional reaction to it now.

14:41.92
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah.

14:54.14
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Reality what are the odds that it's actually good. That's something like that will actually happen again. I mean the odds of it happening in the first place are slim to none right? But the fact that it's going to happen twice in 2 years so what happens is like emotionally you know we start to you know create these. Thoughts and feelings that aren't based in reality and so we can easily distort things and so if you again teach somebody to think in the the reality and not the distortion and not the worst case scenario. You know you can help them balance it and then I also you know will say to them. What's your real purpose for running this right is it to raise money for these charities is it to prove something to yourself right? And now you're starting to feel good about yourself again. So emotionally, you can try to make that separation. Yes, you can certainly feel.

15:42.73
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
So now. So.

15:48.19
Dr. Grayson Kimball
You know, angry and sad and everything from what happened but is that anger and sadness is it going to help you during the race right? and maybe a little anger can motivate you right? but you don't want to run angry like maybe feeling sad for a minute puts things into perspective for you.

16:07.23
Dr. Grayson Kimball
But you don't want to run unhappy like that's not going to help and then again, that's where you know changing your mindset and everything kind of gets you back into that positive mood.

16:17.52
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
It's a beautiful connection between the body and the mind and that that it sounds to me like a beautiful balance between being in the moment using what's in the moment towards the goals that you're setting for yourself. But also when things get in your head that are not. As helpful to go back to that moment right to go back to that moment and say okay, you know what is it that I'm doing this for and I think that's really, It's so powerful.

16:35.77
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Yeah, yeah. And a lot of runners I'll have them create these little trigger words. So it's you know, think of the word and then that will mentally take you to an image right? or a place that makes you feel good happy which is how again the book came together with listening to the grateful dead on every single run.

16:58.65
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yes.

17:00.63
Dr. Grayson Kimball
You know there are lyrics I mean they have some really really cool lyrics and that just and a lot of it actually meets the idea of running they have a song called fire on the mountain and the very first line is long distance runner. What are you standing there for and so.

17:08.57
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Very.

17:16.63
Dr. Grayson Kimball
You know when the music speaks to you and literally in the activity that you're doing it just again, it gets your mind off of other things and for me I obviously have a strong connection between the grateful dead and a lot of positive memories and so that's one of the reasons why I listen to them.

17:28.51
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah, and I love that name grateful runner I think it's so powerful. Um, and I love that name Sorry about that I have to say that again because of my computer I forgot to turn that off. Um and I love that name I think it's so incredibly powerful, grateful runner.

17:45.22
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Um, thank you.

17:47.72
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Love it. Um, you actually are leading us to to what I was hoping you would help us with what are some tips you talked about songs songs that speak to you? What are some tips for um, for for you know, hopeful runners to to set themselves in the right. And the right mindset to to prepare themselves to towards their success.

18:07.51
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Yeah, sure so I would say starting out from a motivational standpoint have a purpose a real purpose for doing what you're doing. So if you're going out to run. Why am I running today like what's what's the purpose and again, maybe it could just be I want to challenge myself. Want to see if I can do this or you know 3 of my friends were going to run a race in six months and today is day one so you want to have that purpose because when you don't have the purpose. It's easy to then drop out. 

Well I'm not going to run today. But if there's a real reason behind it. You're more likely to to stick with that goal and so. The goal setting is almost I don't want to say it's like you got you have to be motivated and then goal setting but they they are linked together. So then if you have very so you know specific challenging and realistic goals. That's another great mental tip because you now you're holding yourself accountable I wouldn't ask your friend. What should I do today because then it becomes their goal right? if they say oh you should run this and then you don't well, that's her fault right? Now here's what I'm gonna do.

19:10.83
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Um I think yes.

19:19.41
Dr. Grayson Kimball
And I'm going to achieve it and I'm go to feel good about it because I set out to do it using a lot of positive self- talklk and you know when people hear positive self-talk you know it's you know on the greatest I'm the best but that's not really what positive self talk is I. Kind of reframe it into positive instructional self talk right? Run faster. Okay, how you know focus on my breathing right? Keep my arms moving right? Make sure that you know, um I'm landing on the you know balls of my feet. You know, whatever it is so I'm telling myself what I want to do how I'm going to do it.

19:55.97
Dr. Grayson Kimball
That to me is the positive self-talk now if I'm in a race you know I'll suggest to runners like you know I might see somebody ten yards ahead of me and I'll say to myself I'm faster than him right? and then my pace literally starts to pick up and I pass by that person and again now I don't necessarily try to then keep that pace.

19:57.78
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
My office.

20:15.97
Dr. Grayson Kimball
For the rest of the race because I may not be trained. You know to handle that that pace but that's where I use you know positive self talk and I'll also have the runner tell me if you had to describe yourself in 3 words.

20:17.19
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Right? it.

20:31.12
Dr. Grayson Kimball
When you're running your best and let's say you've never run before just when I'm feeling my best be 3 words to describe it and you know like a runner might say you know focused positive strong like those are the 3 things that come to mind.

20:34.40
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
I.

20:46.97
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Well on your run when your mind starts to wander which it will and let it wander like you can't be like you know hyper focused on 1 thing for a minute or 3 hours um think about those 3 things like am I focused strong. Powerful or you know, whatever your 3 words are because again that gives you a positive angle in terms of what you're thinking about it's all about you and about what you know you're capable of and again, maybe you start thinking about that for 30 seconds for a minute.

21:09.19
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Man.

21:20.58
Dr. Grayson Kimball
It ships you out of any negativity you might have and it puts it back on the positive.

21:24.10
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yes, and I think I think living in the current world I think the idea of being that focused on something so intentional and so helpful also serves a really greater purpose of just kind of tuning all of the stressors of the world out. You know and I think that's really beautiful and powerful. Um, would you share your website with us. Um, and our viewer and our listeners sorry 1 more time Doug I apologize would you share your website with us so our listeners could access.

21:50.21
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Yeah, yeah.

22:01.66
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Your your book and um and all your resources.

22:03.72
Dr. Grayson Kimball
Sure so it's gratefulrunning dot com and there's a link to the book on there. You can get the book I believe on Amazon and through the publisher which is lulu publishing but there's all those links are on the grateful running website. Um and you know other little. Tips I was featured a couple years ago in Runner's World Magazine I think there might still be like a link to that. So there's a you know couple links you know here and there but just in general if you Google you know mental conditioning for runners. You know I'm sure you'll find a thousand different articles and really just mental conditioning.

22:26.22
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
I Saw that.

22:43.11
Dr. Grayson Kimball
It doesn't matter what it's for and just you know real quick even though a lot of our discussion today was about mental conditioning for runners everything that I've talked about it's the same I use with a basketball player. You know with with a golfer. Or with people in the business world. So I do a lot of executive coaching just really taking the principles of sport and performance psychology and applying it to a sales manager a doctor like anyone who is a high performer right? It's about motivation you know positivity. You know, realistic goals all of these things you know transfer over so any type of mental conditioning will help and of course if you want something specific to your activity. Good thing for Google you know it's all out there.

23:29.11
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
That's great. Well thank you so much again. Dr. Grace and Kimball you were wonderful. Thank you for teaching us so much about this incredible empowering piece of being a human being. So once again I am Dr Areli Bickler thank you for joining us today. Until next time run towards the things that fulfill you and make sure to stop once in a while to enjoy the scenery and connect within.