A challenge that is a reality for many who work remotely is battling feelings of loneliness. What can leaders of remote employees do to help alleviate these feelings? How can leaders help remote employees avoid burnout? Drs. Ada Cenkci and Megan Downing, professors at Northern Kentucky University, chat with Melody Rawlings, Director of CAVO, to share rich data from their extensive research on workplace loneliness to answer these question and others.
A challenge that is a reality for many who work remotely is battling feelings of loneliness. What can leaders of remote employees do to help alleviate these feelings? How can leaders help remote employees avoid burnout? Drs. Ada Cenkci and Megan Downing, professors at Northern Kentucky University, chat with Melody Rawlings, Director of CAVO, to share rich data from their extensive research on workplace loneliness to answer these question and others.
Melody Rawlings
0:00
And welcome to the Center for the Advancement of virtual organizations podcast, overcoming feelings of isolation in remote work. I'm Melody Rawlings, Director of Cabo and today I'm joined by two special guests, Dr. Ada Genki and Dr. Megan downing professors at Northern Kentucky University. And today we're going to be talking about findings from their research, and what leaders can do to help reduce remote workers feelings of loneliness. So welcome Aida and Megan, and thank you for taking the time to come and discuss this important topic. Hello,
Dr. Ada Cenkci
0:34
thanks for having us.
Unknown Speaker 0:36
Hello. Thank you for inviting us.
Melody Rawlings 0:38
I'm excited about jumping into our conversation. But before we do, would you get us started by telling us a bit about yourself. Hello,
Megan Downing
0:46
I'm Megan Downing, Associate Professor of organizational leadership at Northern Kentucky University. I teach classes in our organizational leadership discipline as well as in the Honors College. My research interests, in addition to belonging and loneliness in the workplace include service learning and civic engagement, experiential learning with leadership education, the imposter phenomenon, self leadership strategies, and teamwork in organizations. Aida
Dr. Ada Cenkci
1:16
Hello, this is Dr. Adel Jang Ji, I'm an associate professor at Northern Kentucky University. I work on topics remote work, belonging, loneliness. I teach classes on Foundations of Leadership, Culture, diversity, I love teaching on diversity on culture. And I have been working with Dr. Megan for about five, six years at Northern Catholic University.
Melody Rawlings 1:45
Thank you for that introduction. I know that you both have been deeply involved in research through the years and I've even collaborated with you on some projects, which I have thoroughly enjoyed. But perhaps none are, are more important than the research that you've done on workplace loneliness. So and I know that you have continued to conduct extensive research into this topic since you started it I know several years ago. So would you please share with us an overview of your work and what you have found?
Megan Downing
2:16
Thank you. This is an ongoing project we work with Dr. Downing, and our co authors Dr. Toolbar, beer John, and certified diversity to professional Karen param Lippman. So workplace loneliness is comparatively new topic. And if you look at this, especially during the pandemic research on this topic exploded. So but there is a need of better understanding what this is and where the research. So we are writing this book titled overcoming workplace loneliness, how to create a sense of belonging for your remote workforce, to be published by emerald around this fall. And we looked at first what has been done on workplace loans so far, because as I said, the research on this exploit during depending so we wanted to provide a manual book on what has been done, we looked at it and then we had the research component and mixed method research, meaning we conducted interviews, and we had a survey.
And in this research component for remote employees we looked at where their sense of belonging and their social identity, do these factors affect their workplace loneliness. We looked at what creates loneliness in organizations, we looked at what helps what practices in organizations help decreasing loneliness, what else can be done? We looked at benefits and challenges of remote work. So to get this, we did meet with employees from two companies one it research, one healthcare, both mostly remote healthcare company was fully remote. And the interviews were so amazing. I'm like, maybe we should do just the book of just interviews that just publishing the interviews, but we can't do this because the impossible identities may come out. They were so enriching. We talk to each for for about 45 to an hour, we talk about 34 people. And the quantity the surgery part is still being analyzed, but they're just so much coming out of the interviews, and we are happy to share this video with you.
And first you ask what do we got out of these interviews? First of all, people want to feel valued, respected and heard. This is no surprise. Yes, we all know people want to be valued, respected, hurt. But we believe there is a misunderstanding on what companies take. We listen to employees, and what employees see. So sometimes companies just have a big townhall, hundreds 1000s of people come in, and they explain what they are doing. But employees don't see it that way. When we have a town hall that big, it may be hard for some people, especially in lower levels to express their opinions. People want to be genuinely heard. And that may be done better sometimes in small groups. Instead of in a big town hall only chosen big names, big managers ask questions.
And what we see is, and this is not specific to do to companies, whatever we are seeing is not specific to companies, because we see it all over and in our organizations to vary our working. People are burned from working too much. I mean, let's think about this pandemic happened. People struggled to go back to keep their working base, understanding this new reality for us. We had to just turn our classes online. Luckily, Megan and I are experienced in online teaching, but people burn out. So it's when we talk about loneliness. People think, Okay, I'm in this room alone, dark. It's not that it's not just a personality issues. What causing loneliness is not being valued, respected and heard. If people get anything out of this podcast, I want people to remember, many years ago, people don't see if you loner is not feel valued, respected and heard. So what can organizations do this, this is our second finding. Organizations needs to improve employee morale and showing care we conducted this studies, this interviews last spring, if we conducted now, it may be even more people are anxious, not specific to these companies.
Again, this keeps seeing people getting losing their jobs and LinkedIn etc. So companies need to focus on improving morale and showing care. And this may be harder in a remote environment, because you don't have this face to face interaction. And an email may not be as genuine as sitting in a room and talking face to face. So the way to improve this, our research indicates that it is not throwing another happy hour online, take your drink, people are actually burned out all these activities that popped up during COVID isolation measures. It may work for some but not for others, especially when you are behind the more people are not going to spend time on a happy hour, then they have so many things to do. So getting people engaged in activities, when they are fully online, it's hard, especially when they are burned out.
So it may be our study indicates that it may be better to bring people together for a specific purpose. So let's say if it's Pride Month, a specific activity towards that, instead of just coming together. And understanding that not all employees want to build connections at work, that I have a friend who just wants to work, he's an IT person. He says I'm not going to spend time on mingling with others remotely at work, I'm going to spend it with my kids. So not everybody wants this. So another thing I would like people to get out of this conversation is applicability of these ideas. What we are saying here are what you may think it may work, it depends on the team, it depends on the organization. There is no one size fits all, unfortunately.
Melody Rawlings
9:02
So I'm so glad that you brought out that the causes of workplace loneliness is not feeling valued, respected and heard. That's a great finding and your research, something to bring to the forefront, for leaders to realize and to think about how they are communicating and how they are just working with people who are working remotely. And to consider this. You mentioned so many different areas. In your response to that question. I wish that we had time to just go into all of them because they are all actually probably worthy of a podcast on their own. But I know that we do have limited time and so we'll need to stay focused. So what motivated you to conduct the research? Also as part of that question, did you find that workplace loneliness means different things to different people?
Speaker 3 9:52
Yeah, Melody. I mean, I was gonna say if you let us talk, we can talk on it for hours. So I suggest not doing that. as
Megan Downing
10:02
well, as aid has said that, you know, we actually started this prior to the pandemic. And at that time, we were like, this is a much more common issue than people realize it's really was under research and although research about belonging and perhaps remote work, really exploded following the pandemic, you know, there was this loneliness, essentially, some people refer to it as a loneliness epidemic, even prior to the pandemic. And in my past research on teens and imposter phenomenon, or professional workplace loneliness were concepts that started emerging in that, that I noticed and I was interested in learning more about.
And then of course, the pandemic made it even more relevant. And then I was fortunate to be working with a colleague who was already immersed in Ada, who's already immersed in her research on belonging and loneliness in the workplace. And so I was really glad to be invited to be a part of it. But but that is, you know, what inspired my interest in it and encountering loneliness, even you know, we're in an academic setting. But even I teach online classes and encountering loneliness in my students, as well help to spark my interest in this.
Melody Rawlings11:16
As you indicated, I know that you guys have been researching this for some time and even prior to the pandemic, but I know that you saw a great, much greater interest in this topic after the pandemic, because of course, it was affecting many, many more people. So in your research, what did you discover? Did you make any discoveries that surprised you?
Dr. Ada Cenkci
11:39
That's a great question. Melody Romney conducted interviews, we asked people about talking about workplace loneliness, and they were talking about their social support systems. And that was surprising to us at first. But when we sat down and looked at all the results, that's actually meaningful, I mean, these people work from home. So maybe during lunch break, they talk to their family members. There is not a lot of research done on remote workers loneliness. So that was a new, surprising result for us. And it also tells companies, they need to think more holistically during the pandemic, when people don't have child support, when they need care for their dogs, etc.
Companies who are helping with those resources, I think those need to continue. As much as sometimes companies have a tendency to see this person coming to work, and just focus on work life, there are things happening in the background. And sometimes companies may need to support this being understanding to childcare needs, being flexible with work hours if somebody needs to go pick up their kid. So thank you for asking this question. That was a very interesting finding for us, seeing the affected also social support systems or workplace wellness.
Melody Rawlings
13:05
You know, I think we are seeing a switch or some changes in the fact of what you mentioned about organizations taking a more holistic approach, and supporting employees and being more flexible. And it's that's such a welcome. Change or focus. And I'm glad that we're seeing that happen. So as long that same vein, how might leaders know if a remote employee is experiencing workplace loneliness, what are some signs?
Megan Downing
13:35
I'll take that question, one of the key factors might seem almost like a no brainer thing, but observation and listening, which is a little bit more challenging, of course, in a remote environment. And so it's going to take a purposeful and intentional awareness on the on the part of the leader, and that listening needs to be active listening. And so research on the topic reminds us that loneliness is subjective. As ADA has already mentioned, there is no one size fits Hall, it's going to vary based on the team player or the you know, the team member.
Some people will hide their feelings because they're embarrassed, they don't want to see weak or unprofessional or unskilled. Some resources on this mention that we should watch for changes in behavior. For example, if someone has always been a very engaged person, and they become quieter, less interactive, less engaged, they don't contribute at the same level as usual. These are some some flat some red flags, for example. And if they have changes in their routine, like they skip meetings, they start coming late to meetings, they miss deadlines, their work is sloppy when before it was very well defined and well produced and if they even have a lack of interest in learning or development or moving up in the organization, they stopped for Binding input put, they essentially kind of float along, maybe they don't even make eye contact in the Zoom meetings or have their cameras off. If you're having these live engaging meetings, limited interaction, even with their co workers, an overall sense of apathy starts to be communicated. So it's something to be very alert to.
But on the flip side, if a lonely worker typically was more moderate in their engagement, suddenly they become very hyper engaged. That actually can also be a sign because again, it's the change of the behavior, they're over volunteering, maybe they're working excessive hours, they're not taking their vacation or their days off. Because they are lonely and work is giving feeding them to try to, they're trying to mitigate their own loneliness factor, perhaps by over engaging, which can lead to a type of burnout, which, on top of this emotional roller coaster that they're already on. A Gallup research study back in 2019, they are pre pandemic noted that an emphasize that loneliness is actually emotional. Sometimes people use the terms loneliness and isolation, interchangeably, and they're very different things really, they, they might feed each other, they might be related. But isolation is structural, whereas loneliness is emotional.
So as leaders, it's really important for us to realize that loneliness at its root is a lack of connection. And so that goes back to those three points that ADA has already emphasized, you know, so we want to provide that connection. And that can happen in any work environment, whether it's face to face or remote. So the best and most important thing is solid leadership practice that we should all strive for in any environment. And that's the take time to get to know your people and understand them. So you're better equipped to recognize if their behavior change? I hope that answers your question.
Melody Rawlings 16:59
What I'm hearing you say, both of you say in several of your responses is that leaders need to know their employees, they really need to know them well. And so they can recognize when a person who normally contributes a lot is quiet or or just kind of withdrawn, or whether a person who is doesn't come to meetings, or just any other size that they would recognize if they knew that employee well, so that's what I'm hearing you all say to and again, going back to the one size fit, there's no one size that fits all. So placing emphasis on the fact that leaders do need to know their employees. So then what might leaders or what are some ways, leaders can help remote workers to reduce feelings of loneliness.
Megan Downing
17:51
I would investigate it again, it's going to really matter, it's going to really matter, depending on that individual, it's going to vary depending on the individual, I should say. And, you know, that was one of the things, you know, with this interview process, as ADA said, you know, it was such a rich and rewarding experience. And we could talk forever about the rich findings from the people who were so kind to engage in that interview process. But, you know, in particular, I remember one person who mentioned that, you know, she came into the position new in the middle of the pandemic, and she felt lonely from the get go, even though, you know, they sent her her equipment, you know, maybe all of the boxes were ticked in a certain mechanical way, you know, making sure that basic resources and connectivity and those types of things. But in a general sense, the onboarding process didn't help her to feel connected, or like she was connected to this workplace.
And so that fed into her sense of, or lack of a sense of belonging, and her sense of loneliness, if that makes sense. And I'm paraphrasing that greatly for the sake of time. But that's just one example. And that was one of the things that actually was a little surprising to me that somebody could that that feeling of loneliness and disconnect from the workplace can start right from the very beginning and on that onboarding process. And that even holds true if you're, you know, transitioning from position to position in the company where you've been for years, because you need to take that time to build those connections when you're bringing them into the fold, so to speak.
Dr. Ada Cenkci
19:30
Yeah, and you're and I can hit that. What Megan I can add that what Meghan said quoting to VA, we're John our co author. She was saying that when we talked to her companies just sent equipment for remote work, okay, you read your headphone etc. And they thought that things will go as normal they they sometimes don't see the back end of it. Are people will collaborate remotely. The weather people experience isolation and loneliness. So just sending those equipment etc, is not helping. And sometimes people think, okay, loneliness is not my issue. This is a personal problem. You're an introvert. But it's the company's issue, because it affects so many things from turnover, intention to work engagement. So companies need to take action for loneliness. And it's not just sending those equipment, but creating venues where Megan said, they can connect to each other, especially if they are new to the organization.
Melody Rawlings
20:39
Those are all great ways that leaders can help help remote workers to reduce those feelings of loneliness. And I know that the focus of your research has been from an organization leader perspective. But I do want to ask what practices are or or are there practices that remote leaders themselves can implement in their work day to reduce loneliness?
Dr. Ada Cenkci
21:02
Thank you for asking this question, Melody. This is what we mainly focus in our study, actually, as I said before, listening, respecting their ideas, listening in the sense that not just having a big town hall, but maybe having small groups, if possible, maybe bringing a third party like ours that is neutral. Because when we did these interviews, they knew we don't work for this company, we just focus on research. So bringing a third party where they can openly talk, showing that you genuinely care about employees, like how can I make your life better?
Sometimes our chair chair does this. She's like, let me know how I can help you do your job better if you're having issues. I know she genuinely cares. Hopefully, she listens to this podcast, showing that you genuinely care. And respecting respecting their expertise. Just because somebody is a CEO or top manager doesn't mean that they know your job better than you do. So respecting people expertise and getting their ideas before making a decision. And when I say listening, not just listening, but taking notes and throwing them aside, but actually implementing those suggestions. And another thing companies can do is just like we have been talking, everybody's needs are different. So ask people what they want, get to know your audience, and offer activities accordingly. So what worked for us at NKU may not work for your company. So make it offering customized solutions.
Another thing I will suggest this communication with remote employees. So when you notice somebody's having issues, and this is harder to notice, by the way, especially people not turning on their camera so you can read their facial expression, communication with their remote employees that it's okay to reach out. I'm your manager. Even though I'm away, this is my cell phone, please reach out. Let me know if you don't understand something. And as I said, since when remote many people work with without cameras, it's hard to read people's faces. And in interviews, leaders were telling us how difficult for them to read people's facial expressions, their body language because in the past in a face to face meeting you look at this employee, they seem confused. Now it's harder to understand is this person on is what I'm saying? Are they going to be able to complete this task? So creating a warm routine the organization overall in general this culture, it's okay to not know everything it's okay to ask questions. And another thing is focusing on orientation of new employees just like Megan said, welcome down even if you are far you mentioned giving your phone number one of the people we interview suggested maybe something smaller compact, which you know, sometimes we saw this in LinkedIn, a backpack set of pencils or something something little handwritten cards, we welcome to the team we care about you. These don't take a lot of time or money just sending a card. A personalized note can mean a lot. And other things as I said I can talk about for hours. Another thing we notice is difficulty in getting help. Again and again. Since we work on this topic, I look at other stuff He is conducted on it.
And I saw this in another study, difficulty in getting help in remote work is really a big problem. I mean, it's all nice and dandy and you work in your PJs, at least for me, was when you need help. Like this, I don't want to bother Megan, maybe she's working on something. So it's really hard when you work remotely to reach out to that person. In hybrid, I go to her office and talk, so many years needs to focus on the difficulty in getting help. Giving this image reach me if you need maybe assigning your mentor from the team, let's say I'm new to team, there's a mentor, I can go and ask questions. And then if you meant if you're, that person is a mentor position, it may be good to reward employees who helped each other. For example, in our performance evaluations, civic behaviors, meaning helping each other is my performance evaluation. So I suggest companies do the same, helping each other, maybe a part of performance evaluation. In addition, people kept saying us bring people together, face to face from time to time, we did these interviews last year. S
o business role wasn't picked up as much at the time for what is better now. But bringing people together in a room that has huge impact. So maybe from time to time, maybe once or twice, or you're having a company wide, or team wide meeting bring people to Florida or something, and they talk face to face flying thing for their coach. I know this may seem like a huge expense. But those connections when you need something, that means a lot now you've meet face to face, or allowing people to visit their counterparts, allowing people to visit their customers. This means a lot. Last but not least, leaders need to be trained on what to do. As always dealing with loneliness, especially in American culture. I noticed people don't want to show their feelings. I'm originally from Turkey. So I'm totally cool with showing that. But in American culture, there is this individualism and achievement orientation. People don't want to show their feelings.
So managers may not know how to deal with these such people how to help them. So providing training or resources, sharing best practices within the company. Some mental health resources, etc. training managers so they can go and offer help to employees here is this free mental health resource. Here is this employee resource group, our associate resource group does business news, networking work, you can join if you want to connect with people. So training so that they can offer resources, lonely employees, those are
Melody Rawlings
28:09
great suggestions for a leader to consider in just bringing these things to focus or bring these things or to make employees aware of things that they can themselves be doing to reduce loneliness if they're if they're having those feelings.
Megan Downing
28:24
Sure. First of all, we we don't see this as an individual issue, but more so as a concept organizations should be aware of and strive to address. But that said, employees don't always find themselves in a workplace environment that is recognizing this. So yes, this question is very relevant and important to consider. So just as a dimension, that listening is important. Communication is interactive, it's a two way street. So employees must communicate their needs, even if it's uncomfortable. So it takes some inner you know, awareness, self awareness.
So what is driving that sense of loneliness? What is lacking in your workplace? And who can you share that with to try to get it fixed, and that's a very uncomfortable position to be in, especially if you're new or new to a team. And it again, it takes some self initiative to be able to do that, but some of the easier ways to do it. If that seems, or at least I believe this might be maybe an easy isn't the best word. But some ways to mitigate that or maybe take baby steps toward it is to take advantage of what is offered where you feel the most comfortable. You know, don't put yourself in an anxiety ridden situation when you're already dealing with this emotional factor of loneliness, but, you know, try to reflect and figure out what's lacking. But if you can, if you're if your team lead or your mentor or your boss or whomever is not already, scheduling quick connection type check in conversations with a boss and mentor, a co worker, someone who feels like you trust, then strive to to schedule those Once a month, once a week, you know what ever you can do.
Maybe even suggest that if your team has weekly meetings that you take a few minutes at the start or close of the meeting for some non work related conversation to help build and foster connections. And I hate to, you know, make it sound like we're putting the responsibility on the individual. But this might help to change the culture of the unit that you're working in and help mitigate it for yourself as well as others. I know one thing for myself during the pandemic, our our college dean, Diana McGill started having she has had in the past, even when we were face to face, she would have teas were lunch with the dean have these. And I never really took advantage of them. Because there was always something else going on. And, you know, going over to our office and not wanting to intrude or what I don't know why we should was as welcoming as can be. But I didn't take advantage of them.
And actually, during the panic pandemic, I did, because I recognized she's going to all the trouble to offer these, I want to make sure somebody's there. And then I really enjoyed it and got to know people from across campus that I hadn't known before. So I mean, I guess I'm kind of bleeding into both ways leaders can help mitigate it as well as as workers. But as he was mentioning, you know, some organizations offer ERGs, or different interest groups. And if you can make connections in some way on the campus, with the with your work campus, that is one way that you can help to mitigate that. You can also as as Ada was mentioning, you know, your social network can be an important factor in mitigating that sense of loneliness. So making friends or connection in your community, both personal and professional. And this can be done even in a fully remote situation like the pandemic pandemic through platforms such as LinkedIn, or other professionally targeted groups.
Some of the organizations we talked to, the folks were using, like different networking platforms like Microsoft Teams, or whatever. And those who wanted to could join in like a chat about sharing their pet pictures of their pets for a day or something like that. So little lighthearted things that they integrated into their workday. For those who were interested in participating in it, they could do so. And so sometimes things like that can really make a difference. So I hope that that's helpful. But those are just some ideas that an individual can do. Again, you know, our focus is emphasizing that it's, it's a concept for organizations to strive to address, but, you know, because employees aren't always in that type of environment. You know, being aware of these ways of small ways of starting to build those connections can can make a difference.
Melody Rawlings
32:41
Aidan, Megan, what great research you guys are doing. I'm so excited about your upcoming book. It's going to be such a tremendous help to organizations to leaders in helping to support their employees. It's just been a pleasure chatting with you and and hearing about this important work. I've learned a lot from you on this important subject. That's for sure. So are there any closing thoughts, either of you would like to leave with us?
Megan Downing
33:07
Well, just to wrap things up, and segue away from what I was just talking about as if you're a people leader, stay alert to this, it's so easy when you have so much on your plate to you know, just to think that everybody's okay, because they're not sharing with you. But it know that this is not a new thing. It existed before the pandemic, it's going to continue to exist.
And it is a much bigger issue than people realize. And you know, when I first started working with eight on this, she's like, see the stats in the UK, you know, there's a 45% Loneliness factor in a campaign to end loneliness in Japan a 40% Loneliness factor from some studies where they refer to their loneliness epidemic. And they actually have loneliness ministers in those countries who emphasize that, again, connecting to people is the key to tackling loneliness. So know your people, be alert to changes in their behavior, and provide those opportunities for them to build those connections.
Dr. Ada Cenkci
34:03
My last thoughts will be to towards people who feel this loneliness, either in their life or work, I would say don't give up. I personally experienced loneliness when I immigrated to this region. And actually, people, immigrants and people with disabilities, they are they have usually a higher risk factors for loneliness. So all these people who feel lonely, I would like to say don't give up. Keep trying to go to activities, keep trying different groups to create that connection. Go to different meetings that were go to employee resource groups, etc. When it doesn't work, try the next one. And finally, you will be able to find your tribe and not lonely anymore.
Melody Rawlings
34:57
And also how can our listeners connect with You,
Megan Downing
35:00
LinkedIn is fine. Sure his
Dr. Ada Cenkci
35:02
LinkedIn will be great. And I love to learn more about other people at LinkedIn, and melody to you. Thank you very much. I see your post and podcast links in LinkedIn. Such a great resource you are providing.
Melody Rawlings
35:19
It's been a pleasure chatting with Dr. Ada Jing chi. And Dr. Megan Downing, both professors at Northern Kentucky University who are subject matter experts on workplace loneliness. Thank you for joining us in support of the Center for the Advancement of virtual organizations. We greatly appreciate your insights and we know our listeners will benefit from your expertise.
Dr. Ada Cenkci
35:39
Thanks so much for having us.