This episode features NCU alumna Dr. Charlotte Immenshuh, and NCU faculty member Dr. Maggie Broderick discussing their book chapter from the Handbook on Research for Transforming Teachers' Online Pedagogical Reasoning for Engaging K-12 Students in Virtual Learning. Crystalizing moments are those remarkable times when students make significant connections with their learning. Drawing on their experiences homeschooling and teaching online, Dr Immenshuh and Dr. Broderick share ideas and hope for creating valuable virtual education experiences for primary aged students. Dr. Immenshuh is the owner of Kumon Math and Reading Centers of San Antonio - Alamo Heights, https://www.kumon.com/san-antonio-alamo-heights/instructor
This episode features NCU alumna Dr. Charlotte Immenshuh, and NCU faculty member Dr. Maggie Broderick discussing their book chapter from the Handbook on Research for Transforming Teachers' Online Pedagogical Reasoning for Engaging K-12 Students in Virtual Learning. Crystalizing moments are those remarkable times when students make significant connections with their learning. Drawing on their experiences homeschooling and teaching online, Dr Immenshuh and Dr. Broderick share ideas and hope for creating valuable virtual education experiences for primary aged students. Dr. Immenshuh is the owner of Kumon Math and Reading Centers of San Antonio - Alamo Heights, https://www.kumon.com/san-antonio-alamo-heights/instructor
Dr. Amy Lyn 0:02
VESC brings you exciting and practical tips for improving your virtual teaching and virtual learning experience. Hello everyone and thank you for joining us for this podcast with Dr. Maggie Broderick and Dr. Charlotte Eman shoe. I'm excited to be back here again with Dr. Broderick. She's brought one of her former students to talk with us about a book chapter that they've written together. Dr. Broderick is an associate professor with the School of Education at NC U. She's a dissertation chair, and a researcher with a K 12. background. Dr. Charlotte Eman Shu is an ncu graduate. She's the owner of Alamo Heights kumin, and a former high school math teacher. Welcome to both of you. Thank you for joining me.
Unknown Speaker 0:48
Thanks, Dr. Lin. It's great to be here.
Dr. Charlotte Immenshuh 0:50
Thank you so much for having us.
Dr. Amy Lyn 0:52
I am really eager to hear more about your background and more about your book chapter. I'm Dr. Edmund Chu, how did you go from teaching math to owning your own business, um,
Dr. Charlotte Immenshuh 1:02
you know, it was really a natural progression. And so I'll give you a little bit of background, my bachelor's work and degree is in business marketing. And I always loved teaching. And so I kind of blended those two things together. And I was certified to teach secondary mathematics. And I started teaching at a high school in San Antonio, very urban High School, the most rewarding and eye opening experience of my life. And my background growing up was in private education, I had not ever gone to a private or public school, rather.
And then I started teaching high school, I was fresh out, you know, fresh out of being a graduate. And it was there, you know, it was there, where I was a credit recovery teacher, and I got to work with students that had either failed, or just coming back to school for just a variety of reasons, you know, a lot of a lot of traumas, and you know, just a lot of life experiences. And so I got to work with these students very one on one. And as I'm doing this work, I started to see a pervasive issue of like, wow, you know, these kids are lacking fundamentals. And there's so much missing. And at that same time, my youngest step daughter, she was in a kumaon program.
And that was, you know, one of those moments where you say, wow, I get to, I get to really see the other side of this, I'm not being the teacher, I'm getting to be the mom and watching my child go through this process. And it was really at the insistence of my husband, he said, you know, you love what you do. And you keep talking about I need more time, I want more time with my students, there's never enough time, there's got to be another way. And he said, I think you should look at opening a kumaun center.
And I was days away from delivering our almost 19 year old and went through the whole process with kumaon. And it's been 18 years now. And so it was kind of a fun little way to get there. Along the way, I went back to school and obtained a master's in curriculum and instruction. And then I did my district or my PhD rather with NCU, which was phenomenal, best, best online experience I've ever had. And that's where I met Dr. Broderick, and Maggie has just been a wonderful mentor. So you know, I kind of came full circle, with my education path through wanting to learn more, and always wanting to see more and do more.
Dr. Amy Lyn 3:30
That's great information, and really interesting story of how you've, you know, started as a teacher and came to own this business, you have a lot of different, unique experiences in your background. And I'm very delighted to hear that you had such a positive experience at ncu. Dr. Broderick, you also work previously in K 12, and transition to a career in higher ed, can you tell us more about yourself and a little bit of that change?
Dr. Maggie Broderick 3:56
How exactly Dr. Lin, thanks so much. Yeah, like you said, I am currently an associate professor in the School of Education here at ncu. I do so many different things. I just love doing a variety of things. Just throw something my way. And I love it. I work a lot with the students directly. And sometimes I work behind the scenes and things that you might not think about, like curriculum and assessment. I have an ongoing research agenda that I'm really passionate about. And so that was part of the reason that I was super excited when Charlotte kind of had that same that same bug I'd say for scholarly publishing and, and going that next step, I just I love being able to connect research and practice and just bringing it all together. So in terms of the K 12 piece, I did start out a little bit like Charlotte said, I was in K 12 education for quite a while. I taught music and German actually at a German magnet school which I can look at from my house right now. I've moved closer to the school. I love that place. And is this really cool place to teach. I eventually got my ESL certification.
As I gradually moved more into higher ed, just bit by bit, I was teaching in person at Pitt and Duquesne here in Pittsburgh. But then I had my family and sort of like Charlotte said, and you and I have talked about in our discussions, Dr. Lin, you know, you balance that work life balance, and you think about what's best for me. So after a while, I did begin teaching online exclusively, mostly to graduate students and teacher Ed. I've been doing that for about almost 12 years now. And I love teaching and learning online. It's just it fits it works for me. So I just remember like thinking decades ago, why doesn't this exist? Why can't we have what what we have today? Why can't we learn online with online libraries and, and with, you know, different things that we might want to explore?
So it's just super cool to see it today. And I think you'll see that the research agenda that Charlotte and I have begun and that we've worked on with this book chapter, it kind of goes along with that idea. Like, wow, it's pretty exciting to think about all the things in K 12 education, that are changing pretty rapidly, you know, during the pandemic, of course, but but also just in general. So that's pretty much where we're both at we're both k 12. People with different backgrounds, who are thinking about, wow, this is a pretty exciting moment, I think, in K 12. Thinking about online teaching and learning.
Dr. Amy Lyn 6:19
I couldn't agree more. It's exciting and challenging. And all of us probably are people that enjoy a challenge. I would imagine that so the two of you did recently published a chapter in the Handbook of research on transforming teachers online pedagogical reasoning for engaging k 12 students in virtual learning. Congratulations on that publication. That's really exciting. The chapter is called crystallizing moments, student interaction and engagement and online primary grades education. such an important topic right now. I'm, I really enjoyed looking at the chapter and the chapter discusses how to use research based strategies to create engaging interactions with students. What led you to write this chapter?
Dr. Charlotte Immenshuh 7:06
Well, Maggie, if you don't mind, I'll jump in in a second, because I was really moved by what you said. And I started to reflect and think about all the things that we've worked on together. And, you know, when it came to the pandemic, everybody has a story of how they weathered the storm. And, you know, my experiences with online learning where they have been more as a student, and I've had to now degrees received through online learning. So I really felt that that that perspective was something that I learned to embody. I am not a very what I would consider a tech savvy girl. So when all of this kind of hit, I had to transform my business overnight to an online service, and I credit NCU because the way that that relationship was built with my professors, and that kind of online learning where it wasn't so distant, and it didn't feel so foreign, it was really more of an intimate process that we went through, you know, to receive the PhD and into earn, you know, all of those courses, and all of that wonderful stuff we did together. It was there that all of these ideas started to come into play, because I, I took that perspective.
And I gave that to my student body. So you know, pre pandemic, we had an almost 400 students 350 to 400 students. And so how do you take the one on one in class and turn that around. And so you know, my previous experience of having Dr. B as my dissertation chair, I reached out to her after and I said, you know, I'd like to discuss some future writing projects with you. And we found this opportunity, you know, for a chapter book regarding online learning, and the pandemic. So it was very fresh for me as a recent graduate of NCU.
And it was very fresh for me being that it was, well, obviously, the first time in my teaching career, I'd had to go through a pandemic. And I think it's fair to say everybody's first experience. And we started discussing different ideas in our personal backgrounds. And, you know, I shared some case studies with her and that I had informally conducted, I take notes, I always take notes when I'm working. And so in my line of work, you know, being a brick and mortar company, I had to pivot overnight, those services had to continue. And it became even more important that I found a way to get across the screen, when I was so used to being in person with these kiddos. And just like schools, you know, we had to go through that reinvention. And so you know, we don't use software or technology as a means of delivering information. And so I wanted to devise ways that kept our students still very prominent with the pencil paper aspect of our work, where that was still very relevant, where they were still getting all of those crucial skills for developing their skill sets. In all of their cognitive and metacognitive developments, and it was during that time, you know, we're that extra reflection of my sessions came in, as well as my employees sessions, you know, all of our notes would sit there, and we think about it.
And so the conversation started, it was like, you know, what, what does this opportunity provide for the pandemic was very difficult for everybody in this world, I really like to look for opportunities and positive experiences that can come out of this, because when it when it does slow down, or end, you know, we all have to go back to what we once were doing, and that's always educating kids. And for the most part, you know, one on one, face to face. And so through this time, I ended up homeschooling a few students doing more in depth projects with them, because parents were very concerned that their child was not getting the value. From the respective school programs, everybody was doing the best they could with the knowledge that they had. And a lot of parents were finding in our discussions, you know, their disclosures, that their children were losing interest, they weren't getting the hands on projects that they love, they weren't getting that extra little boost out of their education, and the teachers didn't really always have effective ways to come across the screen, if you will. And so I found a way, you know, with with this one particular student, that that we're going to talk that we talked about in the chapter, I found a way to create projects and have these meaningful sessions across the screen and without software. So it was really a very grassroots way of doing it. As I've said, I'm not a techie person.
And I feel so strongly that there's many ways to use basic technology. And for artists, we use zoom. And we maintain the elements of the physical manipulation of lessons. So for instance, you know, I wondered, could I execute project learning across the screen, in a similar manner as if the student was sitting across from me in my center in a classroom in a teacher's classroom, and I became an action researcher in this respect, and I found myself really just enjoying this, probably, I ever have anything else. And you know, I became a learning partner, I was more than just a teacher, I was really a learning partner with this particular student, who we we call Oliver in the chapter, and this opened the door for so many learning opportunities. His family, you know, wanted me to take on more of an active role in his learning outside of the classroom to ensure that his love was not lost. And you know, that his love of learning was piqued more than anything. And these sessions became the inspiration for writing the chapter. Now, Oliver and I have spent an incredible amount of time together, across, you know, the past, what, 17 months, sitting on one side of the screen from the other. I just had a session with him this morning, you know, before podcasts.
So since March of 2019, I'll have to say I've spent at least 120 hours with all of her online and you know, being a younger student, it mesmerized me that we were able to, to do this in depth kind of work. The end of the key idea for our chapter is how to capitalize on these crystallizing moments. And that's a concept that Lisa Murphy emphasized. Gardner's works, that the crystallizing moment happens at any time, right at any moment of the day, without the ability to plan these moments. So things that stick with you forever. And so this crystallizing moments are can be both positive and negative, or one or the other. And like I said, it's never gonna leave, you know, they're deeper than an epiphany. And I wanted to ensure as best as I could, as a teacher that I was creating those positive crystallizing moments. And that's where, you know, the crystallizing moment really forges the learner and impacts their approach to both learning and learning environments. That is really that the basis of where it all came from. It was a very organic process. And you know, Maggie just has a wonderful ear for listening to ideas and finding those those little crystallizing with me and saying, that's the one that's where we've got to go with this project.
Dr. Amy Lyn 14:19
Thank you for sharing that. I'm wondering, as I'm hearing you talk about these crystallizing moments Can Can you or our doctor Broderick share an example of our story about a moment so that our listeners have an idea of what you mean?
Dr. Charlotte Immenshuh 14:34
Absolutely. Maggie, do you want me to do one or you want to go forward with it?
Dr. Maggie Broderick 14:38
Why don't you take the K 12 or the primary grade stuff and then I can talk about it from the higher ed standpoint. Does that sound?
Dr. Charlotte Immenshuh 14:45
Yeah, that sounds great. And so from, you know, the the K 12 perspective, and I work with students from as young as two and a half, three years old, all the way through high school, seniors in high school, so I'm fortunate to see so many different learners in so many different levels. But there's kind of a pervasive theme, you know, you hear kids say that, I don't I don't get it, I don't have enough time. That's not what my teacher said, I know it for a minute, it goes away. I'm not a good reader. I'm not good at math. I'm not a math person. I'm not a reader. I don't like it. And I hear so many of these little jaded voices. And I start to think, Wow, you've crystallized or maybe one bad experience, and it stuck with you, and it has become your identity. And in you know, being in the line of work that I am, I am more of a learning coach. A lot of kids have asked me, is this a tutoring center? And I've said to them, no, we're a learning club, where yes, we do work.
And we do work through concepts that we may not understand, that are below her grade level. And sometimes concepts that are above our grade level, but it's more of a collaborative process. And it's those little moments that crystallized for them where they get a new chance, right? So those crystallizing moments, it's, you know, we always want to be at our best all of us as parents, you know, as a mom, especially, you know, I think we're all we can relate to that oftentimes, as teachers, we just want to give them those opportunities to say, I can do this, wow, that was really fantastic. That's why this happened in life. Or I can take that experience. And I carry it on to the next one, I will tell you one of the most phenomenal experiences I've had working with, with students in K to 12. And it just came to me right now, I had a student Tell me over pandemic two, it's kind of funny, all the all these all these little stories that we shared across the screen, when we were doing our, our math and our reading assignments. I had a young lady who shared with me, she said, I don't think you get it. I'm never going to be good at math. I'm just not that way. I like cello. I like writing stories.
That's me, that's who I am. I'm not a math person, even in my gt program, that's just not my thing. And all of a sudden, she worked with me, and I kept telling her, you really are you're a great student, you're a math student. And I decided for me that crystallizing moment was going to be just a lot of positivity on all of the negativity she was feeling. And I thought if I can just keep reminding her that she doesn't have to just be one person, and that she gets to choose if I can get that into her subconscious. Maybe she'll have a change. I'm not asking her I always said I'm not asking you to become, you know, a mathematician. I'm just asking you to look at math in a new way.
And lo and behold, this young lady who is now at an advanced level in mathematics, she started you know, with with quite a deficit. Now she's learning above grade level skills. And she said to me a few weeks ago, I wouldn't be an actuary. I love math. This is my favorite thing in the whole world. This is awesome. It's so easy. I don't know why people think this is hard. And I looked at her because we were, you know, on screen, and I looked at her next to my child. And I said, I am so proud of you. It's just like what I said, you you let the process happening. You gave it another chance.
And so you know, crystallizing moments, I don't think it's just a positive or negative and a one time and it's over. It stays with you. But that doesn't mean that you can't have an opposite crystallizing moment that changes your entire approach to learning. Dr. Broderick, did you want to add?
Dr. Maggie Broderick 18:42
Sure, yeah, it's exactly right, that Charlotte said it's powerful, you know, and it can be negative. I'm a very upbeat and positive person. So I can definitely think about that negative crystallizing moment, but I can tell you an example about some positive ones as a dissertation chair. As we said, I was Charlotte's chair. And that's a big part of my role. And like Charlotte said, it's a beautiful moment, when you have that kind of Eureka feeling. I said use the word Eureka. Maybe like a light bulb, I think of a cartoon with a light bulb popping over your head. And that can be incredibly positive and motivating if it's the right thing at the right time. Being a dissertation student is so hard. I think you probably remember Dr. Lin. I know Charlene remembers. I remember.
And I finished in 2004. And I'm like, huh? Yeah, I still can't remember how hard so maybe that's a negative but also positive, but really, it's hard. So when you're feeling sort of this lack of motivation and this frustration as a doctoral student, an important part is that that relationship with the chair is everything. It's special. It's ongoing, it might be like two years that you're with this person, and there needs to be trust and communication and I think Charlotte touched On that with her example from the book about all of her who, of course, is much younger, whatever it is, within that special relationship, you can let the crystallizing moment happen much, much more better, much better than it would otherwise. I've seen it recently with candidates who they're frustrated, they're confused. Maybe they got feedback from the committee, and it's not so great.
And they're like, Okay, what should we do, and so we have a zoom session right away. I'm doing one this afternoon along the same lines with a student. And when, when it happens, they have this feedback. And they, they have to go through it. And so we do step by step. And again, it's hard and frustrating, but but then they're working to revise. And they're revising maybe their problem statement, or their purpose statement, research questions, something like this. And it's not like their work was terrible. They just needed to understand it a little more deeply, they needed that Eureka that light bulb, so that it's really in them. And so they've moved to that highest level of understanding.
And so when they get that it's like a light bulb is literally over their head, and they have this clear focus. And then they can reward something just enough, just so that the reader truly can understand by reading what they wrote for that problem statement, purpose statement, research question, whatever the case may be, they can't write it clearly for the reader unless they understand it clearly. So when they get that it's really that crystallizing moment, it really is, okay, I understand this so well that I can portray it clearly in words, written and spoken for somebody who is on my committee, and then hopefully beyond when they defend and move into the things that Charlotte does now. So that's where I'd give an example about, you know, in higher ed, but there there are so many examples for everyone across the lifespan, I'd say.
Dr. Amy Lyn 21:41
So you're saying this isn't a one time thing. That's what I'm hearing, both of you say loud and clear, is that it can change, it can be transformed, it can be reformed, formed, you know, newly new crystallizing moments can add to what's already there. Would you say that's true? Absolutely.
Dr. Maggie Broderick 22:01
Definitely. Yeah, I agree. Charlotte, and I thought about it a lot. It's very iterative. You know, it's it's an ongoing thing. Yeah.
Dr. Amy Lyn 22:09
So tell me, how can knowing this idea. And some of the strategies that you mentioned in the chapter, what do you think would be most helpful or helpful to educators?
Dr. Charlotte Immenshuh 22:20
No, I think one of the biggest takeaways from our chapter is the in between the lines of pushing boundaries of what we do, and what we would do if we had no limitations. You know, in my teaching career, as I said, in all our teaching careers, we've never experienced anything like this. And it really was an opportunity to push boundaries in so many beautiful ways. It's so many of my friends, that are teachers, we've had tremendous conversations through this. And they want to continue to reach those students and to get on to the other side of the screen and be with them, you know, physically be with them if they could, but how do you reinvent the way that we've always taught and giving a new perspective, right? How do we have a new view of this education in partnership in education, and that's the chapter investigates, it's all of those experiences, but it reinforces the importance of a strong home support, and teacher student rapport.
And I've said it a couple of times, and Dr. Lin, and Dr. B, we've all kind of said this, as we've been talking over the past couple of minutes, that that relationship with your teacher, you know, my relationship with Maggie went beyond, you know, once I graduated, I was able to go beyond and I took those experiences and put that into this chapter as well. You know, for me, this was something that I just wanted to say to teachers, I, there are so many things you can do. So many of them want to dive deeper into the content and get more creative. And I heard so many of them tell me that they were afraid to do so because they had to follow the school's plan, or the scope and sequence or the curricular, I don't know, because I can't see across the screen. And that was that was the point it was like, well, now's our time, because nobody knows what to do. So you can do pretty much anything, you're only limited by creativity. So there are zero limits.
Now this is a time to look at our education practices and pivot again, as we take the learners from the screen back into the classrooms. Are we going to continue to push that boundary and say, No, we can do more, and we can be even more involved versus going back into the classroom. And perhaps, you know, subconsciously creating a distance. You know, because we're all going to be in the same room. I've wondered often will a new type of distance be created? Because we're all in that same space? How are those translations going to happen? And I really hope that when enough people read this chapter In the book, I mean, there's 30 chapters that are that are just phenomenal that made this this particular Handbook, but when you know when they get to ours on all of her, it's it's a small. It's a small study, but it's a very powerful one that says, Just try it and keep doing it and watch the children and listen to the kids. Children will always tell you what they need. Are we wise enough to listen?
Dr. Amy Lyn 25:26
You bring up so many poignant points, what would we do if we had no boundaries? I heard you say, and, and teachers wanting to go deeper, I hope, I really truly hope that people do get the opportunity to keep working on going deeper, rather than that cursory glance at at curriculum and what's, you know, the content that's I think that is where we need to go in education. I truly do. Dr. Broderick, do you want to add anything to that,
Dr. Maggie Broderick 25:59
I'll just add a little bit more about the book, it was really such a cool opportunity. I mean, I want to tell other ncu students and faculty, just like Charlotte said, just do it sort of, you know, take a leap and try something new. It was it was really cool. And thinking about the process a bit, maybe students haven't thought about this, maybe they're still in the trenches with their dissertation and, and all these really important things. But Charlotte and I had, you know, just such a special relationship, like, like we both have said, I think of it like two peas in a pod, so to speak. And so we started chatting, and we said, hey, let's just get on a zoom and look at the opportunities.
And we just kind of cast a wide net and said, What about this? What about that, and I had worked with our publisher, IGA global, which really is a publisher that does a lot of work with MCU faculty and, and folks, and I've done a lot with them over the past few years. So we just popped in there. And we happen to find this neat opportunity. It was on our same same wavelength, I guess, the editors, we just kind of got the idea that they spoke our language and that they, they would get our idea for these crystallizing moments and kind of what we talk about a lot. And the book is mostly about the issues raised in the pandemic about online teaching and learning in K 12. Because let's face it, yeah, this was a huge, a huge shift for everyone.
So they've got chapters in there, you know, about primary grades, middle school, high school, all kinds of perspectives, different content areas, I believe that they came from more math backgrounds, and some early childhood stuff in there, too. So it's a nice fit with us. So thinking about in our chapter, developmentally appropriate practice, and sort of that engagements. It just, it just fit with what they were doing, and trying to make online learning personal and, like more, you know, jumping through the screen, like the person is actually there with you, which is kind of a hard thing to do. But I think NCU has modeled really well. So I'm glad to see that we're thinking about it more, you know, for K 12. And even really young learners, like chocolate said, there's, there's so many good chapters to explore in a really big book 30 plus chapters, so definitely check it out.
Dr. Amy Lyn 28:12
Great, thank you. Thank you, do you have any advice to add to other faculty or students who want to have a remarkable collaboration, like the one that's emerged between the two of you?
Dr. Charlotte Immenshuh 28:23
I mean, as a student, I would say, you know, I've always said, if you're a teacher, you're a lifelong student, right? So as a student, and then really being a student, again, looking back in the classroom, I, I would always advise my other peers and colleagues that don't be afraid to ask and I mean, to me if you know, it's kind of intimidating, even though we're all professionals, and we all have our careers, I'm still your student, right? So there's, there's a little bit of a boundary and you never want to cross it.
But there was such a unique bond magazine, we really I got very lucky right when Maggie and several other of my teachers were We were like two peas in a pod our experiences had led to, you know, us having more to talk about and so that mentorship that teacher, student rapport, is we talk about over and over again, it doesn't matter if you're in first grade, or you're, you know, a doctoral student, it doesn't matter. You know, you still have that student teacher mentorship, and it shouldn't in there, you know, life is is learning all the time. And, you know, moving from that I immediately asked, I said, and she was so selfless, and this is where I applaud. Dr. B, you know, she's so selfless Maggie is with her time and her knowledge. And I asked her I said, you know, could we chat, I really want to know, again, like I said to my husband, I want to get on the other side of education, that and then I opened my center right?
And then I got to, you know, more degrees and then I said the same thing to Maggie. I said, I want to get on the other side. What would you recommend? And she had value Advice. But if I didn't ask just like we tell our kids all the time, ask your teacher questions right? there to be that little kid again and doing that, but really asking, because that was my experience, especially with my instructors at ncu. So selfless with their time and their knowledge, everybody has always been there. And you know, this has been so much fun, because now you know, Maggie and I did put this one together, and now we're talking about other collaborations with other students.
And so more of us being involved to be able to, to get our research out there and to do more. So it doesn't have to end just because you have the piece of paper, you know, keep those connections and keep working them because we're all we're all on the same boat. And we're all trying to do the same thing. And that's add more value right to the education system into research. And it would be very selfish of me not to ask, because why would I want to try to keep my thoughts to myself, and it would be very ignorant of me not to ask somebody who is more, you know, tenured in this area, for sure. So I mean, I'm just grateful and thankful and don't I was I'm glad I wasn't afraid to ask. And, you know, again, if Maggie wasn't who she is, I may not have had that same crystallized moment. But you know, I was I was fortunate and very blessed that she is who she is, and that we've we've been able to partner on these different things.
Dr. Maggie Broderick 31:23
Well said Charlotte, and I couldn't agree more I, you know, came from K 12 leadership, where I often was the mentor. And Maggie has been a wonderful mentor to me and the transition to higher ed, in my own career. So I couldn't agree with you more. I think ncu was a really special place. And they really do a great job training their faculty, to partner with their students and engage with their students. And I'm really just delighted to hear you had such a positive experience. And really, I really support everything you just said, I cheer you on, keep going.
Dr. Charlotte Immenshuh 32:03
Thank you.
Dr. Amy Lyn 32:04
So I close out our interviews with the same statement I used to think virtual teaching and learning was now I think virtual teaching and learning is who would like to go first?
Dr. Maggie Broderick 32:20
Oh, I can because I want to thank you both for your kind words. Thank you so much. That just means the world to me in any role I've ever had, whether it's from young children all the way through you amazing people with doctorates. That's just it's all what it's all about is that, that mentoring, and it just makes me You make my heart sing to think about it that way. So thank you. And I'm glad Charlotte as well that you had that experience with so many other faculty members here at NC U. Because that's what we want to do. That's that's our idea.
So with your question in mind, Dr. Lin, I love this question. I've done a couple of podcasts for you with vasque. And it makes me think it's a really good question for critical thinking, especially because of what we talked about with with online teaching and learning over the decades. So I'll elaborate a bit on an answer I gave in another podcast that we did a while back. I used to think virtual teaching and learning was more transactional. Really, before I had sort of, okay, great this, okay, respond this many times, Okay, next class every five weeks, and so forth. And a lot of that are a lot of is very normal still to this day, but definitely was normal 10 years ago. Um, but, you know, nowadays, things are changing those standardized procedures and Dropbox assignments.
They're morphing into something much more engaging, and they're still relevant. But as we grow outside of that box and do amazing and creative things, we can really set our minds to doing a lot more engagement and ncu calls it teaching through engagement. I think we need to keep that learner in mind, whether they're four years old, or you know, a doctoral student at any stage of life. Whatever kind of learner, like we said, The crystallizing moments are universal. How can we make online learning jump out of that computer screen for them? How can we truly engage them truly let them know that we're actually human and that we care? That learning can be fun and authentic, engaging? Well, that's an ongoing project. I definitely want to keep being involved in I'd say,
Dr. Amy Lyn 34:16
Thanks, Maggie. Charlotte?
Dr. Charlotte Immenshuh 34:19
Dr. Lynn, this is this is a good one. And like, Maggie, I I am humbled very much though by just the chance to keep having these opportunities and work with fantastic staff and, and now you as well, you know, with your podcast, this is so much fun.
When when I signed up to take my first online course, I have zero navigation skills like my navigation skills are horrible. I've always said my tombstone will read she lived her life in a U turn. And with Google Maps and support and OnStar and all the good stuff and you know, so Really think back of where I've come, you know, from my, my masters and my PhD work and now having taught online for over a year with my students and all the transformation that has happened. And like Maggie said, a lot of it was so transactional efforts. I used to think that virtual teaching and learning was a language I did not speak well. But now I feel that virtual teaching and learning is definitely a language I speak fluently.
It's something that is truly full of possibilities if we just keep the focus on the learner. And we learn how to interact as if we were sitting together in the same room. And I will close that by saying, I will definitely jump on that research training. Dr. B, to keep exploring that because i think you know, it's something that shouldn't stop and we are also virtually connected. a text message is a virtual connection. Right? So there's no reason that we can't continue learning and simplify the process. And I think that's, you know, where, where we kind of get lost in transition from the spaces but I definitely think I'm now trilingual, because I speak virtual learning.
Dr. Maggie Broderick 36:16
Love it, love it.
Dr. Amy Lyn 36:17
Yes. That's great. That's great. So you can learn more about a Dr. Charlotte Eman shoe in the link to this podcast at Alamo Heights. kumin. And thank you both so much for joining me. It's such a pleasure to talk with you and to hear more about your book chapter and your collaboration. It's just really heartfelt and exciting to hear about. So thank you so much.
Dr. Maggie Broderick 36:40
Thanks. Dr. Lyn's Wonderful, thank you.
Dr. Charlotte Immenshuh 36:42
Thank you so much, Dr. Lin. It was a pleasure.
Dr. Amy Lyn 36:45
Thanks for joining us on VESC. This is Dr. Amy Lynn. Remember, learning is right at your fingertips.