In this episode, Kaili Vernoff (Susan Grimshaw in RDR2) interviews classically trained actor Roger Clark, whose breakout performance as Arthur Morgan in Red Dead Redemption 2 gained him international acclaim and countless accolades, including his win for best performance at the 2018 Game Awards. Kaili and Roger discuss how he built his craft in the theater, the nuances of performance capture, his own love of video games, and some behind-the-scenes stories about the "slap heard round the world."
Check out Roger on social media:
Twitter: @rclark98
Instagram: @rollingrog
and on YouTube: Roger Clark
You can purchase Roger's western audiobooks at https://payhip.com/unbridledaudio
For a transcript of this episode, click here.
For bonus questions with Roger, check out the bonus material page on the*gameHERs website.
VOTE in the*gameHERs Awards!
In this episode, Kaili Vernoff (Susan Grimshaw in RDR2) interviews classically trained actor Roger Clark, whose breakout performance as Arthur Morgan in Red Dead Redemption 2 gained him international acclaim and countless accolades, including his win for best performance at the 2018 Game Awards. Kaili and Roger discuss how he built his craft in the theater, the nuances of performance capture, his own love of video games, and some behind-the-scenes stories about the "slap heard round the world."
Check out Roger on social media:
Twitter: @rclark98
Instagram: @rollingrog
and on YouTube: Roger Clark
You can purchase Roger's western audiobooks at https://payhip.com/unbridledaudio
For a transcript of this episode, click here.
For bonus questions with Roger, check out the bonus material page on the*gameHERs website.
VOTE in the*gameHERs Awards!
The Let’s Play Podcast
Season 2, Episode 3
Roger Clark
Arthur Morgan in RDR2
Episode Transcript
TRANSCRIPTS ARE GENERATED USING A COMBINATION OF SPEECH RECOGNITION SOFTWARE AND HUMAN TRANSCRIBERS, AND MAY CONTAIN ERRORS. PLEASE CHECK THE CORRESPONDING AUDIO BEFORE QUOTING IN PRINT.
Roger Clark [00:00:00] As they saw our work, progress and our characters develop. I think the writers definitely listened and they changed a lot of their preconceptions accordingly to make it work better, you know? I really felt that that was happening, but we were communicating...
Kaili Vernoff [00:00:20] What was that?
Roger Clark [00:00:22] Always a goddamn train.
Verta Maloney, the*gameHERs [00:00:31] Welcome to Let's Play by the*gameHERs, a podcast hosted by actress Kaili Vernoff. Fans know Kaili best as the fiery Susan Grimshaw and Red Dead Redemption 2 and Miranda Cowan in GTA 5. Our series features some of the most informed and exciting people in the gaming industry today. Kaili and her guests discuss careers, gaming and so much more. If you like what you hear, be sure to check out thegamehers.com website to hear exclusive bonus material from each of our guests.
Kaili Vernoff [00:01:04] Hey, everybody. All right. My guest today is a classically trained actor who has performed in over 45 countries. He's worked in theater, in film and television. But it's his breakout performance as Arthur Morgan in Red Dead Redemption 2 that has gained him international acclaim and countless accolades, including his win for best performance at the 2018 Game Awards. Yeah, that's right, today, I am chatting with the incomparable Roger Clark. Roger and I talk about how he built his craft in the theater. We talk about the nuances of performance capture, his own love of video games, and we even get down to the real truth behind the…well let's call it the slap heard round the world. We had so much fun and I can't wait to share it with you. One little note about this episode: In true cowboy fashion, he called in while hiking with his dog, Tucker. So if the sound quality is just a little off, just, you know, pretend we're in camp. All right. Here we go.
Kylie Vernoff [00:02:03] Hello.
Roger Clark [00:02:04] Hey. Hey, how are you?
Kylie Vernoff [00:02:08] I'm good. How are you doing?
Roger Clark [00:02:10] I'm good, yeah. I hope I'm coming in okay. I'm using my earphones and I'm taking the dog for a walk.
Kylie Vernoff [00:02:16] Oh, my God. That's fantastic. Are you guys, like, on your property?
Roger Clark [00:02:21] No, no. I'm just taking a hike on one of the trails, just nearby. I've been doing this a lot since the pandemic.
Kylie Vernoff [00:02:29] Yeah.
Roger Clark [00:02:30] Although when we started I didn't have a dog. Yeah.
Kylie Vernoff [00:02:34] How is the dog? I mean I just see on social media but it looks like the dog is a perfect fit for the family.
Roger Clark [00:02:40] Yeah. He seems to have settled in pretty well. You know. My wife loves him. Oh, my God. It's insane.
Roger Clark [00:02:50] He said he's taken first place out of the whole family very quickly.
Kylie Vernoff [00:02:55] I remember…I remember my husband, Scott, said to me that about our our dog, Rocky. There was like, you know, Lucy was born and he was like, "yeah, I understand where I fit in the hierarchy now. I get it. I get it. I'm not competing." You know, the dog was my soulmate.
Roger Clark [00:03:13] Sure sure. Dog didn't help with the rent, though, did he though?
Kylie Vernoff [00:03:16] No, not at all. Not at all. Well, the funny thing is that now we have another dog and he and Scott are like soulmates. It's so funny.
Roger Clark [00:03:26] Well, you know. I know I have, have I met Pokie? I don't think I have. He's a darling too.
Kylie Vernoff [00:03:32] I don't think so. And he really is. He had such a hard life. Scott's actually got him out right now so that you and I can speak without barking.
Roger Clark [00:03:40] Oh, good. Good. Well, I hope that won't happen with me, I don't think anyway. The only time it ever really happened was when I think when I was one of the first walks, I went on with him, we came across a mountain biker and he freaked out and he to pulled himself out of his leash and I had to run after him. It was terrifying.
Kylie Vernoff [00:03:58] That is really scary. That is so scary. Oh, I am so delighted to talk to you. And I'm really grateful, Roger, that you made time for this today.
Roger Clark [00:04:09] Likewise! You kidding? Anytime to chat with you. Yeah, absolutely.
Kylie Vernoff [00:04:15] Yeah, I feel that. I feel that same way. I really you know, I know it's said so often that we are like a real family. But the truth is that I feel that way. I feel connected to you guys in a way that I that I have never with other casts. I've never felt this connection in this same way.
Roger Clark [00:04:32] With the amount with all the years that we put in together. But then I think, you know, the fact that we were working under NDAs I think had a lot to do with it, too. You know, we literally had no one else to talk to about it.
Kylie Vernoff [00:04:44] Yeah, no, it was just to us. Like, if I would wake up from having an NDA dream, I'd be like, I have no one to talk to. Let me call Mia. It was like that. Well, I do want to talk about... Let's let's get started talking about our shared experience, because I have this memory of you and me sitting. In the green room, there was that sort of back wall that had a counter. And you would often park yourself there with your computer when you weren't working, memorizing lines. And I remember sitting there with you, we were several years into this thing. And I remember you just got this week you were saying to me and you had this little, like sheepish grin on your face and you were saying you thought this could end up being a pretty big deal, you know? And you were like, I don't know. But, you know. But I think it could.
Roger Clark [00:05:39] I always hoped that. But I didn't want to admit it to myself, you know, because I knew I was a fan of the first ones, the first Red Dead Redemption. And I know how much the fans were waiting for a second one. That could have been a double-edged sword, you know, because we could have totally disappointed them with the second installment. And I knew that. Yeah, I would I was worried that people were gonna… you know, I can't. You can't. You can't recreate John Marston.
Kylie Vernoff [00:06:06] No. And I remember you being very conscious of that. You know, it's first because we were working with Rob and you and Rob have such great relationship. And you were very cognizant of the fact that you might and likely would be compared even though your character was a completely different character.
Roger Clark [00:06:21] Yeah. You know, I tried to make him different, too. I mean, almost purposefully. I didn't want to dwell on it too much, but I knew that if I just tried to recreate what Rob had done, I would have been pretty stupid because that's impossible. Yeah. So, yeah. And also another weird thing was when I would be getting the sides and it was very clear from the very beginning that, all right. Arthur was kind of big brother kind of mentor to John and being such a fan of the first installment, the fact that anyone could like it would be that to the one and only John Marston was was quite it was quite an insurmountable concept. You know, like how can I say that to John Marston? But we had to you know, we had to just be conscious of the fact this isn't the same John Marston. This is like 10, nine years before. And, you know, he's not quite... This is how he becomes the man that we you learn to love. This is this is a younger John Marston, you know?
Kylie Vernoff [00:07:23] Yeah. And I you know, I was so ignorant to the whole process that I remember when you were sitting there and you were saying this could be a big deal. I just I just completely believed you because you didn't say stuff like that very often. And obviously you didn't know. But, you know, I had this incredible privilege of watching your process over the years. And when I say it was a privilege -- I know that word is overused -- I really mean it, Roger. It was a real privilege to watch you take ownership of Arthur and his journey. And I wonder if there was a time when you became sort of conscious of the fact that that you were stepping into that number one position on the call sheet? Because you did it without ever, like, flexing. But I noticed you started taking the helm in the green room with newer actors, making sure that everyone felt comfortable and welcome and in the know as much as we were allowed to let them. And I'm wondering if you if there was a time when that was conscious or if it just sort of grew over the years?
Roger Clark [00:08:34] Well, I'm never comfortable telling other actors what to do. But I don't like giving notes. You know, I think that's against the entire process. And it's not my job to do that. So early on, I just tried to make people comfortable and lead by example. Because, you know, you'd see a lot of people coming in and a lot of people had some very preconceived notions about what they were stepping into. And sometimes I didn't agree with that. So I went and I realized sooner rather than later that the quicker I nip that in the bud and the better day that we're going to everyone's going to have, you know.
Kylie Vernoff [00:09:13] Yes.
Roger Clark [00:09:14] Try to get everyone on the same page in and trying to get everyone respecting the work too, because a lot of people had never done motion capture before. A lot of people didn't even know they had to learn lines because they thought they were just going into a voice booth, you know?
Kylie Vernoff [00:09:29] Yeah, I had no I didn't think I was going into a voice booth, but I had no idea I was doing motion capture until I was on that set.
Roger Clark [00:09:36] And so many people, you know, we'd be getting cars into over to the studio and they'd be like, hang on, what? I need to be off book for this?
Kylie Vernoff [00:09:46] Oh!
Roger Clark [00:09:46] That happened all the time, you know, and it just you just smile and nod and go, oh, yeah, yeah. You need to be off for for it. Yeah. But the sooner everyone's comfortable, you're always gonna get a better job out of them and you're gonna have a better scene partner as a result of it. So that's what I try to do.
Kylie Vernoff [00:10:05] I always saw you willing to give up your lunch break in order to run lines with someone. If somebody really wanted to do the work and work on the scenes, you were always available that that was what I observed.
Roger Clark [00:10:17] Of course.
Kylie Vernoff [00:10:17] Yeah. And you know. It's not always the case. You know, I've I've worked on a lot of sets where the number one is completely unavailable to people who might be coming in for one day's work or one week's work. And I think that, oh, gosh, I think that we all benefited from your willingness to put the work first and your kindness and your generosity. I really I mean that. And I thank you so much for it.
Roger Clark [00:10:45] Oh, no, not at all. I mean, I don't I haven't done as much TV as you have, but what little I have done, I do know that there can very often be an adversarial thing for the day players versus the leads and the and the regulars, you know, and like, why should I invest my time in you? Because I I'm not after today, we're not going to be working together on this. But at the end of the day, I mean, you want a good scene, right? You know what I mean? Your show's probably going to last longer if as much of the content is as good as possible, no?
Kylie Vernoff [00:11:21] Yeah, yeah, it's always been a mystery to me when someone will isolate themselves and I think, you know, it's what you're saying, the work always benefits. And I've worked with some really big stars who are 100 percent available to date players. Yeah. And I've worked with some people who aren't famous who would rather lock themselves up. And, um, but anyway. But I think the entire game benefited from from your generosity of spirit. It really bleeds down from the top like that. And, um, although interestingly enough, when Ben Davis was in town, you never did try to take his chair.
Roger Clark [00:12:00] Oh, no, I knew better. Yeah, he got very particular. And what I didn't like it when he would tell women to get out of the studio. That kind of pissed me off.
Roger Clark [00:12:11] But I do remember once, for whatever reason, we got the same car getting into the studio, which almost never happened, was a pretty, pretty big car and I'm sitting shotgun and he says to me that I was in his seat. And I said, I said, no, I'm not. And it was a very bad day, I won't lie! [laughs] Well, you know, there's that... But he's a big guy, you know. And his logic was that that was the only seat that he could fit into. But this was a people carrier. And I knew for a fact that the seats in the back were just this far. I'd be fine.
Kylie Vernoff [00:12:46] Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Davis would be just fine. Yes.
Roger Clark [00:12:50] Yeah, he'll be fine. You know,.
Kylie Vernoff [00:12:52] I love this.
Roger Clark [00:12:55] You know, there was a very definitive hierarchy which, you know, you don't ever want to...it's kind of an unspoken rules. You know, an. But if someone steps out of them, you've got to let them know.
Kylie Vernoff [00:13:07] Yeah, it's important. It's important. And I love that. I feel like that tension, that Arthur-Dutch tension is, you know...
Roger Clark [00:13:14] It was useful, that was useful.
Kylie Vernoff [00:13:15] Yes. You guys both used it!
Roger Clark [00:13:18] Especially in the second half of that story. And then for the first half of the story, it was very important to show the love and the bond and the history that they had together. You know, it makes it makes the ending all that much more tragic when you realize how much of that relationship is lost.
Kylie Vernoff [00:13:34] Yeah. Yeah.
Roger Clark [00:13:36] He was a wonderful costar. All of you were. You know, I couldn't have asked for a better team. It was a privilege.
Kylie Vernoff [00:13:43] We're the luckiest, we ever really are, the luckiest. So I want to talk a little bit about the NDA that you mentioned. I think Rockstar is famous for this. So I think it's not a surprise to most people that we were not allowed to talk about any aspect of what we were doing. I just call it my secret job and only to my closest friends because I didn't answer any other questions.
Roger Clark [00:14:09] Yeah, yeah.
Kylie Vernoff [00:14:10] No, I can't have lunch. I have a job. What are you doing? My secret job.
Roger Clark [00:14:17] I have a lot of family members, you know, and they were like, oh, well, how's your career going? You know, people who don't understand the profession that. Well, you know, if I'm if I'm sitting by the phone waiting for it to ring for a month or two, which is very normal, you know, they would consider that as being that "Oh Poor Roger," you know, and oftentimes that got to the point where I told relatives, you know, I'm working on a video game and I can't really say much more than that. And they're like, oh, that's fantastic. That's great for you. And then three or four years later, they go, Are you still working on that video game? Can't talk about, Rog. I'm like, Yeah, that's right. I got the feeling that they just thought I was delusional, that I needed therapy or something. Like "Oh Poor Roger's invented this make-believe job so that he doesn't seem like a failure, you know, we love him no matter what!" I'm like, "yeah, yeah. Honestly, it's it's a video game. I can't talk about it." "OK, well, good for you when it comes out. We'll be sure to look out for it." And then, you know, once the billboards started appearing, a lot of them didn't cop on, but... And even when the trailers started dropping, a lot of them didn't recognize my voice either.
Kylie Vernoff [00:15:24] No!
Roger Clark [00:15:25] Yeah, a lot of them didn't know. To the point where I when I eventually could say what it was, they didn't... Some of them didn't believe me.
Kylie Vernoff [00:15:33] Oh, Roger. That is amazing. Yeah, it's interesting because your voice, of course, to me is instantly recognizable. But your voice is not the same as Arthur's voice.
Roger Clark [00:15:42] That's one of the ways that -- to go back to earlier what you were saying -- finding that character, you know, the ways I've always... I've never approached, or least I've always tried to approach the creation of a character differently each and every time. I try and do it differently because I don't want to come up with the same stuff in the same way. I want it to be fresh and new and engaging each and every time. And I can't… I haven't always followed those rules because sometimes I've done very similar characters. I just… But with Arthur it was definitely the voice first. Sometimes I'll get the physicality in first. But I definitely started with the voice first. I remember I was doing a theater job for Julie Taymor at the time and... One of my dressers was from Flagstaff, Arizona. So I loved the way he spoke. So I was I was picking his brains a lot during it. And then there was a lot of Southern aspect in there, too.
Kylie Vernoff [00:16:39] So you were already working on the game when you were doing Midsummer with Julie Taymor?
Roger Clark [00:16:46] Yeah, we were just starting. We were just…I think I'd probably done two or three days very you know, it wasn't regular. The first two or three days were very intermittent. And then I started rehearsal on Midsummer's.
Kylie Vernoff [00:17:01] That must have been incredible.
Roger Clark [00:17:03] Yeah, it was crazy. But thankfully, you know, the work… the Red Dead work wasn't that intense just yet as we were just starting. At least I was anyway. So but then once we were in the run, once we were properly doing the run on Midsummer's, then we started getting some pretty full week shoots, you know, and that was kind of crazy. But thankfully, you know, by then the play was in my bones then. So I was able to put a lot of my creative juices just into Red Dead, you know, I was still able to perform at night.
Kylie Vernoff [00:17:34] When I think about I often thought about that with you, because having signed the NDA, you couldn't tell people what you were doing. But your schedule was so full, like I could go off and work on a TV show here and there. But you were almost always booked on the game and you couldn't tell anyone what you were doing. And I thought for someone who like you, this classically trained actor who, you know, has just worked with Julie Taymor, it must have been really challenging, the break in the other work that you would normally have been doing.
Roger Clark [00:18:09] Yeah. Yeah.
Roger Clark [00:18:10] First, I was I mean, I had never booked a contract of that size before. And, you know, I wouldn't be… you know, I don't know. I'm not sure I ever will again. You know, it turned out to be five years long and. Well, of course, I was grateful for the work, but suddenly, all these other opportunities... I had to start turning work down, which was anathema to me before then because I was an Off-Broadway actor, you know, who did the odd bit of voice over. I was in no position to turn work down.
Kylie Vernoff [00:18:42] We're like, we're in the yes business. Yes, I'm available. Yes.
Roger Clark [00:18:46] You know. And then once we started to get more and more intense with Red Dead, you know, and at first I was a little apprehensive about it, you know, because I was nervous. I was like, damn, this is a really good opportunity that I have to turn down now. You know, like a really great theater job and Philly and whatnot. A play that I really wanted to do, something that was flying to Brazil for a couple of days. But, you know, eventually I... It didn't take much, you know, after after a couple of months, it didn't take much for me to realize that we were all very much invested in this project and we were all very much committed to creating something as good as possible. And so, you know, devoting myself to just the one job became easier and easier because of that. And I knew it wasn't gonna last forever.
Kylie Vernoff [00:19:40] Yeah, you know, it's interesting, I would say when you talk about our commitment, I can't speak to everyone. I didn't work with everyone. But I would say as I'm trying to just sort of think in my head right now, I think, at least with the gang, I think almost all of us are trained actors. That is what we do. And so nobody was phoning it in. Everybody was committed and everybody was excited to come and and play, you know?
Roger Clark [00:20:14] Yeah. Everyone had had some theatrical experience. And, I mean, I'm only speaking for myself. You know, God knows there's so many fine film actors that haven't done theater, you know? But for me, personally speaking, that's where I learned how to act, you know, was in theater.
Kylie Vernoff [00:20:32] So you are a classically trained actor, and you got your degree in Wales, right?
Roger Clark [00:20:37] Yes.
Kylie Vernoff [00:20:39] And didn’t you do at least I remember you talking about at least one like massive tour where you got to go sort of everywhere doing theater?
Roger Clark [00:20:47] Yeah. So I toured with this one theater company for nine years. We went all over. We did a lot of Shakespeare. We did a lot of classic American theater, classic British theater. We did Europe and Asia and Australia and South America. And, you know, I did a lot of... I learned so much that on those jobs cause we'd bring the same show to different cultures and some jokes would land in one country and then in another one, you know, it totally wouldn't work. And that's where I learned how you have to listen to the audience.
Kylie Vernoff [00:21:19] Right. Right. Because right. Because if they don't have the same cultural references, of course it's not landing the same way.
Roger Clark [00:21:27] No, no. There will be so many, for example, in Macbeth. Lady McDuff, you know, she's pissed off that her husband did something and left her. She doesn't understand why he had to do it. She just thinks that he's gone and left. So she's admonishing him in front of one of her children. And she said...she says, oh, maybe I'll just get another husband. And her son goes, hey, how you going to do that? And she says, well, I can find ten in any market. And the Chinese thought that was hilarious because back in the 80s, you know, even to that point, your people were literally kidnapping women from rural farms to, you know, abducting them to matrimony, you know, back when they had that child. What was that? I think they had a statute that said that if you had more than two children, you got taxed really heavily.
Kylie Vernoff [00:22:13] Yes, that's right. I remember all that.
Roger Clark [00:22:16] Yeah, so that was still a part of their culture when we were touring. So they thought that line was hilarious. The only country that ever did. And then another show -- when we were doing Frankenstein. I remember once we toured France for two whole months, which is...usually we didn't stick to the one country for that length of time. We did France for two months and then our first night in Germany after that, we...the show just fell totally flat, you know? We were like, stunned. Then we realized, you know, we'd been playing to one kind of temperament, one kind of ideology for two months. And then, you know, the Germans. It's a different type of audience. But very early on, I learned. I learned how to listen to the audience because they can teach you a lot if you if you learn how to listen. And all that stuff about timing etc, you don't you don't get that on a film set, you know?
Kylie Vernoff [00:23:18] No, You really don't. It's true, you don't.
Roger Clark [00:23:21] You either get nothing or you get or you get bullshit. Let's face it, you know, a lot of people blowing smoke up your ass.
Kylie Vernoff [00:23:27] Yes. It's so true. But audiences... I mean it maybe if you're incredibly famous and you're doing a play, audiences will blow smoke up your ass. But for the most part, that feeling when you can tell there's this tension in the audience and they are with you. There is nothing else like that in our business in my opinion.
Roger Clark [00:23:46] Absolutely. I agree. Yes. That's why I really miss theater now. Actually, yeah.
Kylie Vernoff [00:23:53] I actually saw on your YouTube channel you had done a Shakespeare monologue and I just like… my heart swelled. I think I think for those of us who have had the privilege of doing Shakespeare, all theater, but especially the classics like I know for me I never want to retire. Like my dream retirement is to open a little theater in Vermont and just play all the roles that I haven't gotten to play, you know.
Roger Clark [00:24:21] That would be a very. Yeah, that would be awesome. When I've often thought the same thing. That would a crazy retirement though...you wouldn't stop.
Kylie Vernoff [00:24:29] No!
Roger Clark [00:24:31] I said to [my wife] the other day, you know I'm never gonna retire, right? She's like, oh, OK. Well, I am.
Kylie Vernoff [00:24:37] I feel that same way. I don't ever want to retire. I want to. I mean, you know, maybe there will come a time that I. And who knows if we'll ever go back to this, but maybe there'll be a time where I don't want to be running around to auditions all the time, but. But doing the actual work. It's you know, it's not a job. It's who I am. It's what I love and. Maybe you and I can do some plays together, wouldn't that be fun?
Roger Clark [00:25:01] Up in Vermont? That would be awesome. Yeah. Let's do Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
Kylie Vernoff [00:25:07] Yes I am in! I am in! You know, I, I interviewed this incredible game designer a couple of weeks ago, and she said that that the introduction of professional actors into gaming was the biggest advancement that she had seen.
Roger Clark [00:25:24] Oh, wow. What a compliment.
Kylie Vernoff [00:25:25] Wasn't it? She said. She said, I watched games go from being text to being someone's voice -- could be me, she said. And those advancements were all huge. But the introduction of professional actors has taken our medium to an entirely different place. And I was so grateful to hear that.
Roger Clark [00:25:51] It really has changed leaps and bounds since I've been a gamer. You know, it's the whole medium has just changed so much. And now in many ways, you have more freedom in storytelling in gaming than you do on cinema.
Kylie Vernoff [00:26:05] Yeah, I remember you talking about that when we were making the game, and I didn't understand because I had no idea what it was going to look like when we were done. I had no idea of what like really what the fruits of our labor would be. But I remember you saying that that this is that really the industry is sort of turning this way.
Roger Clark [00:26:25] And also, you've got a lot of you know, a lot of the your work is done for you. Especially with my job with Red Dead 2, for example, because, you know, if the player is me then they already feel an automatic…they automatically identified more with, you know, with which could take the first ten or fifteen minutes of a film. But if you're directly responsible for the protagonist's actions, then you are going to bond and you are going to identify with that character ten times more quickly than you may do in a film or TV series or even in a book because you are directly responsible. You feel like, “OK. I actually have a say in how this narrative unfolds” and the way gaming is now, that's true. You actually do have a say. No two play-throughs of Red Dead 2 are the same. Everyone has their own unique experience.
Kylie Vernoff [00:27:19] That is so cool.
Roger Clark [00:27:21] And that's with all games now. Most of them, most of them anyway. I'm playing Ghost of Tsushima right now. And I love it. It's so much fun. You go. You get to walk around being a samurai in old feudal Japan, you know, and you're fighting off the Mongolian invaders. And, you know, I've got it on in Japanese because I just want to immerse myself in the culture. You know, I could put it on the English if I wanted to, but you could do the Kirosawa mode where it's all black and white and they have this grainy texture that they added in to make it look more like a 1960s Kirosawa movie. And I just love it. It's no two ways are the same to do it.
Kylie Vernoff [00:27:57] That is incredible. I mean, it really is immersive. That's that is completely immersive. That's amazing. I have to check that out. We'll have to come visit you and you'll show me.
Roger Clark [00:28:09] Yeah, sure. Sure. Yeah. Or we'll put on Twitch. That's what everyone seems to be doing now. You know, people.
Kylie Vernoff [00:28:15] I know! Everyone's on the Twitch.
Roger Clark [00:28:16] Everyone's watching people play video games now. Is that you know, sometimes that is an entertaining prospect in its own right. Maybe you don't want to invest in a game, maybe don't want to invest the time, but you still want to check it out. So you check out one of your favorite personalities playing it on Twitch. The whole thing's changing in front of our very eyes.
Kylie Vernoff [00:28:36] Have you played and had people watch you play? Have you done that? Like playing Red Dead and people have watched you?
Roger Clark [00:28:43] I did it with Brian Deschart for a day. And then we had that charity thing where we helped raise some cash. That was fun. We went online and then we did the story mode. Online is its own different beast, though. It's kind of crazy.
Kylie Vernoff [00:28:59] I have not tried it. I have watched a little. I mean, what I'm amazed by are the mods and people will send me like the Susan mods. And it's spectacular what people can do.
Roger Clark [00:29:09] Oh, yeah, yeah. I've seen bits where you have cows the size of mountains, you know, and Jack Jack is like this eight foot giant monster who just goes around terrorizing Strawberry and whatnot. It's hilarious.
Kylie Vernoff [00:29:24] It's amazing. People are so brilliant. I mean, there really is no other art form where when you hand it to the fans, you are inviting them to to to what? To modify. To participate. To take the helm.
Roger Clark [00:29:39] Yeah. Take control. Yeah. It's kind of crazy.
Kylie Vernoff [00:29:43] It is crazy.
Roger Clark [00:29:43] You know, it does have its own challenges too, you know, like especially as the narrative unfolds. I remember because I knew that, you know, especially in the second half of the storyline from like chapters five and six, mostly, you know, by that point, players will have you know, they'll have made Arthur either honorable or dishonorable. And when I would get my sides for whatever week we were shooting and I would look at that and I'd say, OK, well, I have to I had to be a conscious of the fact that this might be a really nice Arthur, could be an Arthur that's not so nice. And I had to make I had to make it work for either context, which that was a bit of a challenge. But the writing helps, you know.
Kylie Vernoff [00:30:26] Yeah. I remember at one point you saying something about like, yeah, I think he's a little sick in this in this version. And I was like, how do you keep track? Like I you know, at that time I didn't know that Arthur would I don't wanna do any spoilers but that Arthur would get sick at some point. Although I think everyone's played through. But I think that's amazing that you had to sort of hold in your head which version of Arthur: High honor, low honor, healthy, sick. And what about like if Arthur hadn't eaten, would that affect like did you have to do versions where he's weak can and all that?
Roger Clark [00:31:06] It never affected my dialogue. I think a warning message would come up or maybe you would come along in camp. You'd come along to camp, you would say, oh, you're looking a little peaky there, Arthur, you know?
Kylie Vernoff [00:31:16] Yes.
Roger Clark [00:31:17] I never had to do stuff for that, thankfully. But, you know, I thank you for that. That was very kind. I had to keep all that stuff up in my head for Arthur. But you know a lot about the producers and animators. They had to do it for the whole story, not just Arthur, either. It was insane.
Kylie Vernoff [00:31:31] Can you imagine? They are amazing.
Roger Clark [00:31:35] It's like it's like mathematical. You have to become have a bit of a mathematical mind, you know, is all these bridging all these little diversions and this story would split and then have to come back in certain ways. And then the dialogue that we would have to record for each and every possibility, it was kind of insane.
Kylie Vernoff [00:31:54] That was insane. And I know and again, when I think back to that now and I think…everything they knew that I didn't know, how they kept all that straight. They must have never slept. They must have never slept!
Roger Clark [00:32:10] Yeah. Everybody, we were all we were all very committed to doing a good job on that. Thousands. Took the village, didn't it?
Kylie Vernoff [00:32:19] Yeah, it really did. It really did. And I would say everyone that we worked with, from the animators, director, from the producers to the camera team, the sound team. I mean, literally, everybody was someone I was excited to work with. I really… Everyone brought such a good attitude. It was very… I will not tell stories. There was maybe once or twice that someone came to set -- actor -- where they didn't seem like a team player.
Roger Clark [00:32:49] Yeah, sure.
Kylie Vernoff [00:32:49] I would see that reflected in you. And then, you know, and then usually you wouldn't see that person again.
Roger Clark [00:32:54] Well when you’re working with over a thousand actors it's bound to happen, right?
Kylie Vernoff [00:32:58] It's bound to, but very rarely. I mean, really, really not very often. I don't know if they could just sniff that out in the casting process, but yeah, it was rare.
Roger Clark [00:33:08] Yeah. Plus, you know, that was their first day. You know, everyone's good on their first day. Almost everyone, you know, especially if they haven't worked in a while, you know, everyone's really keen to make a good impression. Thankfully, we were able to capitalize on that.
Kylie Vernoff [00:33:25] Yep. Yeah. So I want to talk to you a little bit about fame. I know it's a strange word. And there's levels of fame that are so different. But you, Roger, are extremely famous in this sphere.
Roger Clark [00:33:43] Stop.
Kylie Vernoff [00:33:43] In this sphere, you are. I mean, listen, I know firsthand how fanatical your fans can be. I, I. Well, I've shared with you I've gotten messages…
Roger Clark [00:33:50] Thanks for not giving my number out.
Kylie Vernoff [00:33:53] People ask me for your number. They will say. And sometimes it's very sweet fans who will say, I drew this Arthur portrait and he hasn't responded. Will you send it? I mean, I get this stuff. I want to say at least once a day, somebody will ask me if I can be a liaison. And sometimes they're rude and scary.
Roger Clark [00:34:14] Yes, sometimes.
Kylie Vernoff [00:34:16] Yeah. And I'd love to hear your experience. Like, is it what you expected? What what what's your experience with it?
Roger Clark [00:34:23] I didn't know what to expect. I knew it was going to possibly change things. But I really it. I honestly didn't know what to expect. All I knew is how I was going to try to capitalize it, you know? And that being said, I want to carry on being challenged and I want to carry on working and I want to hopefully do that in as many mediums as possible. So that's what I was kind of my agenda, for lack of a better word. But 90 percent of it, I didn't know what was going to happen. And but I got to say, for the most part, everyone's fantastic. And for the most, you know, social media has really changed things. I think in the last 10 years or so. Cause I have the opportunity to interact with them directly. And a lot of them really seem to appreciate that. And I appreciate it, too. I really, really love it when someone takes the time out of their day to tell me how much they enjoyed the game and all of our work and performances, you know, hey, that really means so much to me. And whenever I can. I'll always… I'll always respond and say thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed it, you know, but I don't know about fame, you know. As you know, everybody thinks we just did the whole thing in front of a microphone...you know?
Kylie Vernoff [00:35:43] I know!
Roger Clark [00:35:44] And I'm going to say, you know, I blame a lot of the media for that. A lot of these games journalists aren't making aren’t bothering to make the distinction between performance capture and voice acting. I think now at this stage of the way the industry is, I think that's it's a little lazy and it's a little I think it's a little disrespectful, too, I mean, to be honest, because performance capture has been the predominant way to do gaming now for the last 10 years or so. And when you're…when the people who are kind enough to say how much they enjoyed your work don't even understand your work, you know, that's what kind of makes me sad. So I've always tried to do what I could just to raise awareness about the fact that performance capture and voice acting are two separate things.
Kylie Vernoff [00:36:27] You know, it's such a tricky thing because voice acting is an incredible is it is an incredible skill. But it's just not what we did.
Roger Clark [00:36:40] Of course. But this one is one is not more or less than the other. A lot of people think that we're putting down voice acting when we go, “actually was performance capture,” and they go, “oh, what's your problem with voice actors then, huh?” “I don't have one. I mean, and I am one, except. And I love being one. It's just I wasn't one on Red Dead 2 is all.” And I wish I wish that, you know, I wish that we could do more to help people understand that because, you know, a lot of the opportunities that are coming my way now, I'm very appreciative of and I love what you know, it's all it's all just voice like to be honest with you. I still can't get arrested for a front of camera audition. I'm not complaining by any means. It's just it's just. I had more opportunities in front of the camera before Red Dead 2 came out. And I think I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that people don't understand what it is that we did, you know?
Kylie Vernoff [00:37:39] Yeah. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I am shocked when I will do podcasts with people as a guest. And I will frequently say to them in the interview. Just so you know, I love voice acting, that's not what we did. I spent very, very little time in the booth at all for Susan Grimshaw. I mean, I think I maybe did three days total for Susan Grimshaw in a booth. And all that stuff was like iterations of what she says at the poker table or, you know, shouting from a horse.
Roger Clark [00:38:16] Or ADR on something that you already did, yeah.
Kylie Vernoff [00:38:19] Yes, exactly. Exactly. Fixing sound on something that I already did.
Roger Clark [00:38:23] Right.
Kylie Vernoff [00:38:24] And then they will put out the interview, the podcast, whatever it is I did, and they will say, we're so thrilled to have Kylie Vernoff, voice actor of Susan Grimshaw. It's like we just had that whole conversation where I explained it to you. I don't know why people are so dug into that term.
Roger Clark [00:38:44] I think it's just the lexicon is dug in now. But if it's your job, I'm starting to lose patience for it now. I'm not going to lie. And I don't apologize for that either. You know, it's your job, you know.
Kylie Vernoff [00:38:56] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I agree. I agree with you. You know, I think that the distinction is huge. The only place they cross over is that some video games use voice actors like my friend Jen Cohn, who plays Farrah on Overwatch. Everything she does is in a booth. It's all in a booth, which in many ways is incredible because she has to picture everything that we actually got to put on its feet.
Roger Clark [00:39:25] Exactly. And then you have some situations like Spider-Man where you got Yuri Lowenthal, who is the voice of Peter Parker and Spider-Man. And then you've got this 19 year old parkour genius doing all the mocap court where he was, you know, jumping around and doing the things that, you know, is -- as wonderfully talented as Yuri Lowenthal is, he can't he can't scale walls and jump off. So here you have you know, you legitimately have two performers sharing the role. You know, no two studios do it the same way. But, you know, if like in your instance, if you are kind enough to take your time out and explain to them the difference. And then when the article comes out, they clearly weren't listening. That's that's that's unfortunate.
Kylie Vernoff [00:40:08] Yes. And I and when I have drawn attention to it, they are mortified. And I'm so sorry. That's right.
Roger Clark [00:40:15] And you know what? If I'm going to be totally honestly with you, I'm totally guilty of the same thing. You know, if I'm in a restaurant and I asked for a Coke and the waitress says, oh, we only have Pepsi, I could kind of go like, oh, all right, whatever. Absolutely.
Kylie Vernoff [00:40:28] Same thing. Samesies.
Roger Clark [00:40:32] So, I mean, I get it. I get it and all. But, you know, you can. You can't. It's not accurate. You can get rid of bad habits. And, you know, let's just call it for what it is, you know.
Kylie Vernoff [00:40:44] Yeah. Yeah. So back to this fame thing. I, I loved seeing the shout out that you and Jack Black did for each other on his Jablinksi Games.
Roger Clark [00:40:55] Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That was I was kind of thrilling to see him enjoy our work like that. And then Ice-T.
Kylie Vernoff [00:41:04] Isn't that exciting?
Roger Clark [00:41:04] I mean, he just he responded to something I tweeted on Twitter saying how much he enjoyed read that as well. And I'm starting to think this isn't real life anymore. This is just some crazy dimension that I've ended up in. I must've woken up on the wrong side of the bed. Ice-T doesn't talk to me on Twitter.
Kylie Vernoff [00:41:20] I love Ice-T. I love Ice-T. And I especially love him on Twitter.
Roger Clark [00:41:26] Yeah, he's great. And then we were fortunate enough to do a lot of the cons before the pandemic hit. And just seeing the effect of our work has been one of the most rewarding things.
Kylie Vernoff [00:41:37] Yeah.
Roger Clark [00:41:38] It genuinely has been.
Kylie Vernoff [00:41:39] Yeah, I have watched. I've just done a little bit of the con stuff, but I've watched you go all over the world. I mean, you went to you went to Kuwait, you went to somewhere in China. What has that been like, what has that been like, Roger?
Roger Clark [00:41:58] Well, I… it was weird because I had done that before, albeit not as a you know, as just a traveling troupe member of a theater group.
Kylie Vernoff [00:42:07] Yeah, that's different, though, because they're you're bringing the art. They don't have an expectation of you yet. Whereas when you go for the conventions, there's already they know who you are and they can't wait to see you. That's gotta be a whole different animal.
Roger Clark [00:42:23] And being asked to scream Lenny and so many different languages, it's really it's really funny. You know, the people, the fans and the fans all over the world are, for the most part, absolutely wonderful. And it's just been such a joy to meet them and I'm very grateful for them. And, you know, we were able to do something that has given them pleasure on such a scale that I never honestly dreamed of before in my career. I only thought it was only a dream that. I would never be able to reach this many people and not even just for that, but to have them enjoy the work. I still have to pinch myself about it. So I don't I don't…I don't have any objective comparison to say what the fame is, what it means and how it's affected me. Because when I'm home, I'm it's just me, you know, nothing's changed in my own life at all. You know. My wife, she still gives me a telling off if I'm not pulling my weight and.
Kylie Vernoff [00:43:30] Makes you fix the air conditioner…
Roger Clark [00:43:32] Of course. Yeah. Yeah. You know. And my kids are the same, too, you know. I don't let them play Red Dead. You know, it's they’re still a bit too young, but by the time they're old enough to play it, they probably won't want to because they know there'll be something else much more cool going around.
Kylie Vernoff [00:43:48] How do you feel about the state of videogames as a parent? I know that your boys love their Nintendo switch and and with your you know, your foothold in gaming. How do you feel about. About the games that are available to them and...
Roger Clark [00:44:06] Well, you know, I think because I'm a pretty informed consumer when it comes to gaming, so I know what's suitable for them and what isn't.
Kylie Vernoff [00:44:14] Yeah.
Roger Clark [00:44:15] And, you know, be a part of it. I remember my mother would always kind of watching. Let's just make sure... If I was watching a new program, she would check it out. Well, you can do the same thing for video games too, be a part of their gaming experience. Monitor it in a supportive way. And, you know, if there's something that they shouldn't be doing, you just got to nip that in the bud and you got to tell them why. Make sure that they don't have access to it. This I don't I don't have any difficulty, personally speaking.
Kylie Vernoff [00:44:45] Well, first of all, already you've done so much more due diligence than I. I just needed help from Lucy. So even though she was definitely too young for Red Dead and for sure too young for GTA, which they sent me the code just so I could learn how to play a Rockstar game was released just like with me on the couch, because I could not figure out the technology and I needed her. So Lucy got a little early introduction.
Roger Clark [00:45:14] Yeah, well, at least it was with her other mother. So that's cool, you know?
Kylie Vernoff [00:45:17] Yeah. I think that if you are doing it together...
Roger Clark [00:45:20] It's it's not like you. It's not like you were killing prostitutes, or police officers, was it?
Kylie Vernoff [00:45:26] Well, I mean GTA, I'm not really sure what we were doing. You know, I don't really want to say. I just I just. There were there were definitely some things that I just didn't explain. Just drive the car. Just drive. Get me out of here.
Roger Clark [00:45:44] Yeah, right. We will return later. Yeah.
Kylie Vernoff [00:45:49] All right. There's something we have to put to bed. You and I have discussed this, and I don't know if my memory is just not all there, but. The people need to know, they want to know. They want to know, Roger.
Roger Clark [00:46:04] I think I know what this is about.
Kylie Vernoff [00:46:05] Yeah. I think you do. I think you do. You come into camp, you're filthy and...
Roger Clark [00:46:13] And Grimshaw gives you a talking to.
Kylie Vernoff [00:46:15] She gives you a talking to.
Roger Clark [00:46:17] Yeah.
Kylie Vernoff [00:46:18] Or she gives you a warning or oh a straight up hit upon the gut. It's more than a slap. It's it's a clock.
Roger Clark [00:46:26] Yeah, it's a clock. I remember doing those scenes, but that didn't happen in my play-through because I'm not...I'm a clean boy. So I know that never actually happened in my play-through, but I remember doing them. Yeah. And I remember thinking I remember going, oh, this is interesting. I didn't fully understand it until I started seeing it in game, you know. Yeah. They just wanted to penalize the player for not washing up, I guess basically, which is I guess to help with the immersiveness of the game. And, you know, and I think even if you even if you don't wash it after that, then you start to have I think your health goes down a little faster. You know, it be because there was a higher chance of infection and whatnot. Yeah. It just adds to the fact that you actually brew your coffee before you drink it. I know there's mixed results. There's mixed reception things about all of these time-consuming immersive qualities.
Kylie Vernoff [00:47:16] We didn't even try like Lucy has rolled... Like tried to fall in the mud and we've never triggered that that moment. But the real question here is -- I was asked this by my godson before I had even really played the game because he played there the minute it was released all the way through -- is that there is this rumor, a persistent rumor out there that when I hit you, I hit you for real because your laugh is so natural that everyone thinks that I accidentally hit you for real. And that caused the laugh.
Roger Clark [00:47:48] As I recall, we knew you were gonna hit me, but I think a little harder than I anticipated.
Kylie Vernoff [00:47:54] I have been telling people that I never hit you. I literally thought.
Roger Clark [00:47:58] Oh yeah…you hit me. You did. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. We had like been instructed like "let's try it with a hit this time" because, you know, it's a very hard dynamic to bring across because, you know, Arthur is kind of like for most of the games, he's like the right hand man. And then Grimshaw, you know, she's…she's in charge of the camp. So there's two very high status figures in the gang. And for one of them to clock the other one, it was kind of like, how do we make that work without one of them losing face, you know…
Kylie Vernoff [00:48:27] Not just one of them clocking the other one, Grimshaw clocking Arthur. I mean, I don't think anyone else in that camp could have hit you and you would have laughed. I mean, I thought we were like definitely dancing a line, but I would have sworn on…I don't want to say my daughter's life… but I would have sworn that it was like a a stage hit where I didn't hit you at all. I can't believe I've blocked this out, Roger.
Roger Clark [00:48:53] So you thought maybe it was… Oh, so you said you do remember the hit and you remember us faking it. Is that it?
Kylie Vernoff [00:48:59] Yeah. I thought that I.
Roger Clark [00:49:00] Oh!
Kylie Vernoff [00:49:01] I would have said that I faked it.
Roger Clark [00:49:03] OK. I remember. I remember us talking about it. Let's go through one where you just hit me and you're like, are you sure? And I'm like, yeah.
Kylie Vernoff [00:49:11] [gasp].
Roger Clark [00:49:11] And we did it.
Kylie Vernoff [00:49:12] I remember now! You're right, you did.
Roger Clark [00:49:20] But it was harder than I expected. And that's where the laugh came from, you know, because. And also, I wanted to show you know, Arthur's is okay with it, too, because you don't want... You don't want people to... I mean, that's a weird dynamic line to cross. And you want to make... you know, you want to make sure that this is a reprimand because Arthur's filthy as a pig and he needs to wash up, you know, so he kind of deserves it.
Kaili Vernoff [00:49:44] Yeah, it humanizes him in a way, too. It humanizes him. He's not untouchable. Like he has to answer to people. And and I think it really, you know, it it illuminates that that familial aspect that that it is a real family.
Roger Clark [00:49:59] Absolutely. Yeah. These people have known each other...they are. This is the only family that these people have. Yeah. Yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [00:50:06] Is there any part of of Arthur that you that you worked on maybe as an internal exercise or even or even something that you worked on externally that you think got missed?
Roger Clark [00:50:19] Oh, I don't know. Mm hmm. That's a really, that's a helluva... wow, that's a great question. You know, I knew that I wanted... I knew I just didn't want to create another archetype Western protagonist, but I was looking for ways to avoid that. But then, thankfully, the writing... the writing was so good that, you know, there are many...there's a few occasions where he addresses fear and I didn't want to internalize that too much. I really wanted to make that clear to the player that, you know, Arthur can still be tough as nails and whatnot, and he can still be very scared at times. And I didn't want to, I didn't want to scoot away from that. But with the wonderful writing, there was a few opportunities where I didn't have to. But, you know, when you have that much volume to work on, you know, there was plenty I was able to explore about Arthur, you know, plenty and some and some of the aspects too I didn't even know until, you know, like as you may remember, when we were doing booth work, we often didn't get those sides in advance. So, you know, oftentimes I would just have five or ten minutes notice before I was starting to perform these lines. And these were typically for me, there would be in-game stuff like when I was going from one. He's going from one location to another in a mission or whatnot. So there was some of that dialogue that I was like, holy cow! I was not expecting to see that! So there was a few of those occasions. Yeah, but well, we had we had plenty of time to explore a lot. I didn't feel unfulfilled in any aspect, you know.
Kaili Vernoff [00:52:10] Yeah. Were there any scenes that you shot that that you can talk about that that didn't make it or that changed?
Roger Clark [00:52:19] Oh gosh. Yeah. There was a lot of stuff that got cut. You know, I have talked about him a little bit. There was like a few things that got re-worked and re-done. For example, there was one bounty mission where Dutch and Arthur get on a train to preemptively strike out against all these New England Bostonian bounty hunters that were trying to take out the gang. And that was a real fun day because Ben was educating them on how to do a Boston accent right.
Kaili Vernoff [00:52:49] Which is the hardest accent ever.
Roger Clark [00:52:53] But, you know, it helped it helped too. Again, it was kind of like, who the hell is this guy telling us how to do...Oh, he's from Boston. OK. All right. Now we have to be adversarial in this scene and it's suddenly become that much easier, you know?
Kaili Vernoff [00:53:07] Amazing. Art imitating life, life imitating art. I love it.
Roger Clark [00:53:14] Yeah. A lot of stuff. You know, as the game progressed... This is. I mean, I wasn't I wasn't as privy to this -- you know, all the goings on like that, like what got cut and what didn't and what what got chosen to... What they decided to keep. And then things as they saw our work progressed and our characters develop, I think the writers definitely listened and they changed a lot of their preconceptions accordingly to make it work better, you know? I really felt that that was happening. Even though, you know, we did work with Michael Unsworth for a few days, but for the most part, there wasn't a lot of communication going on. But we were communicating.
Kaili Vernoff [00:53:59] What was that?
Roger Clark [00:54:01] Always a goddman train.
Kaili Vernoff [00:54:07] That was amazing.
Roger Clark [00:54:08] I could have donea funnier joke then, but I didn't want scare ya.
Kaili Vernoff [00:54:14] Yeah. No, Please Roger, Don't get hit by the goddamn train.
Roger Clark [00:54:19] Yeah. No, I know this trail very well. Yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [00:54:23] So I am as, as you are, super hopeful that things will start getting back to some sort of normal for us and that we will get to do. I mean, productions and that theater will come back, and you, by the way, are always invited to my Vermont theater when I when I open that.
Roger Clark [00:54:43] Thank you. I'll be there.
Kaili Vernoff [00:54:46] I will do that. But in the meantime, I know that you are taking advantage of this time at home to do all these audiobooks, right?
Roger Clark [00:54:54] Yeah. Yeah. It's been a lot of that. I'm very grateful for it, too. And I've been able to produce on my own, too, for anyone who's interested. Thanks for the shout out. Yeah. It's payhip.com/unbridledaudio. There is one title out there right now and there's soon, very soon going to be about two more and we're just going to keep doing it. If you liked Arthur Morgan's dulcet tones and you'd like to hear him read some old five-and-dime Western novels from around the turn of the 20th Century, you can give that a check out and see if you enjoy it. Hey, hip dot com forward slash unbridled audio. At the moment, you can get Way of the Lawless by Max Brand. It's fun. It was a lot, it was pretty fun to do.
Kaili Vernoff [00:55:35] Yeah, I think that is a really, really fantastic thing for you to be doing. How do you feel about creating an entire story just without without props or hitting a mark or anything? Is that. Do you have great creative license doing these stories?
Roger Clark [00:55:50] You know, well, you know, if you've got a script like any other, but, you know, it's it's all up to you. And when I first started getting. I've been doing it my whole life. I remember my dad used to do charity newspaper for the blind readings for the local newspaper when I was a kid. And I would go to the studio and I'd help him. I'd cut out newspaper articles and we did that in New Jersey. And then when we emigrated to Ireland, we did it there as well. And so that's kind of been in my blood as ever since I was a child. And I love I enjoy reading audiobooks very much. You know, it's luck. It's just happened to become a very growing part of the industry. You know, just people commute, and people have less and less time to sit down with to a book anymore, which is sad, but we still can find ways to get them to enjoy that wonderful medium, you know, and with the books that I produce now, you know, these books are over 100 years old and they're done... they're written by people who actually still have a physical memory of what a Wild West was like. So, you know, it's a really cool perspective. And they're really fun stories, too.
Kaili Vernoff [00:56:54] That is so cool. That is so cool. And I love what you're saying about them being a people don't read so much anymore. And I, I just had this conversation with Lucy where she was... she was saying how she can watch Netflix. She doesn't have to read.
Roger Clark [00:57:07] Oh no!
Kaili Vernoff [00:57:08] I know because your brain doesn't grow the same way when you're reading your brain has to create the pictures. What does this person look like, what do they sound like?
Roger Clark [00:57:17] You're engaging more of your imagination.
Kaili Vernoff [00:57:19] Yes. And I think the next best thing are audiobooks, because it's the same. You're not seeing it. Your brain still has to work to fill in those visuals. And I think it's fantastic. I think it is a fantastic endeavor, especially while we are all in lockdown.
Roger Clark [00:57:37] Yeah, yeah. Tell me about it. I'm so grateful that I can go on these hikes still. You know, I don't know what I'd do without that.
Kaili Vernoff [00:57:45] Yeah, we should come. We should come and do a hike with you.
Roger Clark [00:57:47] Do!
Kaili Vernoff [00:57:48] I know I've had you a long time. So as we're winding down here, I would love to give you a chance to share with me at a time in your life or in your career when someone took a chance on you and and gave you an opportunity to shine.
Roger Clark [00:58:02] Oh, gosh. Well, there's been too many of them. You know, like Rockstar absolutely gave me a chance. You know, I was an unknown off Broadway actor when I walked into that audition room for the first time. You know, I had done motion capture before, which at that point wasn't very common. But, you know, just the chance that they put a lead in, and, you know, it's it's a thing, you know, you're gonna be the lead of your next game. And your last game was Grand Theft Auto 5, which I think has sold over a hundred million copies. Now, that is a bit of pressure, you know, and they took a chance on me and I'm very grateful for it. I also remember Steve Blandford. When I wanted to change my major when I was in university. I started out with some... I think you call it an associates degree over here. It's an HND in the U.K., higher national diploma. I was doing computer studies.
Kaili Vernoff [00:58:59] I didn't know that, Roger!
Roger Clark [00:59:01] Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was awful at it, you know? I wasn't I wasn't that good at it. And, you know, I was studying that and I just was becoming more and more disenchanted. And I just decided to. I took a jump off the cliff one day, figuratively speaking, of course. And I decided to go to the humanities department. And I remember I spoke with Steve Blandford, who at the time was the head of the of the theater department there. And I asked him what were my chances of transferring. And I told him my experience and what I had done. And by this point, I had already done a few plays at the university. So he was very welcoming and he told me what I needed to do and I never really looked back. After that, I also remember when we moved to Ireland, you know, it's very sad to hear a couple of days ago my local amateur dramatics society way back in the west of Ireland.
Kaili Vernoff [00:59:57] In Sligo, right?
Roger Clark [00:59:58] Yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [00:59:59] I saw that today. I loved that picture of you. And I was heartbroken to see that it was shuttering. Or not shuttering, just not not presenting this year. Right?
Roger Clark [01:00:09] They've done 41 years of Christmas pantomime, which is a very well-known Irish and British tradition. Not so much well known over here, but it's the Christmas tradition where they'll put on a fairytale production. And it's very it's all family oriented thing. It's got a lot of song and dance in it and it's got a lot of funny cross-dressing and whatnot. And I know that's not...who knows whether or not that's politically correct now or not, but it's a very old tradition which was very well-loved. And this is the first year that they're not doing it. They started in 1979. And there's some cast members who have done it every single year, and now they're in their 70s now and. This is the first year that they're not doing it because of COVID, and I was just you know... I just wanted to show my support and just remind people that theater, when this is all over and we have to finally get an opportunity to be in crowded rooms with other people again. You know, let's let's not forget the arts. Yeah?
Kaili Vernoff [01:01:08] Yeah. Let's not. I just want to say to you, and I know that I've said this to you, but I want to repeat it. You are one of the finest actors I've ever worked with.
Roger Clark [01:01:20] Oh, come on. Aw thanks, Kaili.
Kaili Vernoff [01:01:21] It's true. I'm telling you the truth. And I don't say that lightly. And I know that this must feel like a once in a lifetime opportunity. And certainly nothing could ever replicate this. But I can't wait to see what's next for you. I really can't.
Roger Clark [01:01:38] Yeah. Thanks, Kaili. Me neither, yeah. You know, that's the wonderful thing about it, I guess, is that you never know what the next job is gonna be.
Kaili Vernoff [01:01:45] And I think that the sky is the limit for you. And I just hope that I get to have an up close and personal seat.
Roger Clark [01:01:52] We'd better be working together again.
Kaili Vernoff [01:01:55] Yeah, we'd better. Let's make that happen. We don't. Let's not wait for someone to give us that job. Well, we'll find a way.
Roger Clark [01:02:01] Yeah. Just I'm going to have it written in your contract so that you don't get to hit me this time.
Kaili Vernoff [01:02:08] I can't believe I forgot I hit you.
Roger Clark [01:02:11] You're pretty good.
Kaili Vernoff [01:02:13] I was a bruiser back in my day. I was a bit of a bruiser.
Kaili Vernoff [01:02:18] Well, thank you so much for taking time, Roger. This has been a really delightful for me and so much fun. And any chance I get to talk to you, I will always take. OK. Love to Molly and the boys.
Roger Clark [01:02:30] I'll let them know I'm going to go home and see them now. I'll tell them what I'm saying to Lucy and Scott and Pokie.
Kaili Vernoff [01:02:36] Oh yes. Wait. What's your guy's name?
Roger Clark [01:02:39] Tucker.
Kaili Vernoff [01:02:40] Bye, Tucker! Bye!
Roger Clark [01:02:43] He's panting like crazy now.
Kaili Vernoff [01:02:45] Oh, I have to come meet him.
Roger Clark [01:02:47] Yeah. Yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [01:02:52] I just adore that man. And I'm so glad we finally got to the bottom of that slap. So to check out Roger's Western audio books on unbridled audio or to follow Roger on social media, check out the links in our show notes and be sure to head to thegamehers.com for exclusive bonus questions with Roger. And now a message from the*gameHERs. OK, everyone. It is time to recognize women in all aspects of gaming for their dedication to creating content, building communities and empowering each other. The*gameHERs Awards honors exceptional women in gaming in 17 different categories nominated by you, the gameHERs community. So it is your time to make your voice heard and vote for who you think should win each gameHERs award. Anyone can participate, so head to thegameHERs.com That's thegamehers.com and click on "awards" to cast your vote. And be sure to tune in on November 19th to watch the awards show live on the*gameHERs Twitch Channel. You know I'll be watching and I cannot wait to see who wins. See you there.
Verta Maloney, the*gameHERs [01:03:59] Thanks for listening. Let's Play was brought to you by the*gameHERs, a community that connects all types of women gamers and welcomes every human who supports this. Let's Play was produced by Kaili Vernoff and co-produced by the*gameHERs team, Laura Deutsch, Rebecca Dixon, Verta Maloney, Heather Ouida and Alexis Wilcock with sound design done by Frank Verderosa. Please visit thegamehers.com for show notes, to access exclusive bonus material, and to learn more about the*gameHERs community. And we'd so appreciate if you subscribed and gave us a five-star review. Thanks again for listening.