S2 #7: Brittany Lattanzio (Senior Talent Manager at Team Liquid)

In this episode, host Kaili Vernoff (Susan Grimshaw in RDR2) dives into the world of esports with Brittany Lattanzio, Senior Talent Manager at Team Liquid. Brittany and Kaili discussed what it’s like to manage a team of 18-to-22-year-old players, prioritizing physical and mental health in the esports industry, how Brittany guides players to stay true to their authentic selves in the ways they take on partnerships and promotions, and what she hopes for the future of esports.

For exclusive bonus material, visit the*gameHERs website.

Photo in episode graphic by Rhys Rasmussen (@Rhys_Rasmussen)

Follow Brittany:
Brittany's Twitter is @_JunoTheCat
For business inquiries, Brittany Lattanzio can be found on LinkedIn

For more on Team Liquid:
Team Liquid's Twitter is: @TeamLiquid
and Team Liquid's website is  teamliquid.com

Find a transcript of this episode here

Transcript

TRANSCRIPTS ARE GENERATED USING A COMBINATION OF SPEECH RECOGNITION SOFTWARE AND HUMAN TRANSCRIBERS, AND MAY CONTAIN ERRORS. PLEASE CHECK THE CORRESPONDING AUDIO BEFORE QUOTING IN PRINT.

Brittany Lattanzio [00:00:00] But I'm trying to also help them see a bit that they have value, like their value, beyond just being good at a game, like they inspire people. People want to watch them for their personality, who they are. 

Verta Maloney, the*gameHERs [00:00:17] Welcome to Let's Play by the*gameHERs, a podcast hosted by actress Kaili Vernoff. Fans know Kaili best as the fiery Susan Grimshaw in Red Dead Redemption 2, and Miranda Cowan in GTA V. Our series features some of the most informed and exciting people in the gaming industry today. Kaili and her guests discuss careers, gaming and so much more. If you like what you hear, be sure to check out thegamehers.com website to hear exclusive bonus material from each of our guests. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:00:50] Hey, everybody, OK, on today's show, I got to dive into the world of esports with Brittany Lattanzio. Brittany is the senior talent manager at Team Liquid. We discussed her role with the team, what it's like to manage a bunch of 18-to-22-year-old players, prioritizing physical and mental health in esports, how she guides players to stay true to themselves and so much more. This was a fascinating peek into the industry and I'm so excited to share it with you. All right. Here we go. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:01:19] Hello? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:01:20] Hello? 

Kaili Vernoff [00:01:22] Hi. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:01:23] Hi. How are you? I'm good. How are you doing? Good. I'm glad I made it to the right time. It's also daylight savings for me, so all the times are messed up. So I'm glad that I guessed right. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:01:35] Oh, no, I know. I saw something about that. I saw that there was like a time change. And I thought, I think we're good. I think we're good. I got a little confused, too, with the time zone because you have a Canadian flag next to your name on Twitter. And then I started thinking that was like Canadian Eastern Standard Time for a minute. And which is the same as New York... 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:01:59] Right, Yeah, that would have been more convenient. No, I'm I'm Canadian, but I live in Europe, so it's confusing sometimes. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:02:08] Yeah. Excellent. I should also tell you that and maybe tell our listeners that normally when I do these interviews, my husband takes the dog out. But my husband actually had an appointment. So if the dog barks, I'll just like take a little break and go deal with him and we'll edit it out. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:02:27] Honestly, just bring the dog the interview with us. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:02:30] Oh, yeah. He is here. He's circling around. I have like a booth that I build in my living room out of, like a beach cabana and blankets since we're in lockdown and I can't go to a professional booth. So he's literally just walking, he's walking circles around it. He really wants to be a part of it. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:02:46] It's security. Yeah. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:02:48] Well, I'm so glad to have you here today. Let's start by you telling me a little bit about your background. Were you always a gamer? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:02:57] Yeah, I think... I grew up with a big family. I have three brothers and a sister and so three brothers, a lot of activity around our house. And one of the things we all did together with such a big family was play games. So whether that was competitive games like Mario Party against each other or just me and my brother, who are the closest in age, we're really much into like gaming. So we owned Sega, Nintendos, like everything, and PC games as well. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:03:27] And you grew up... You grew up in Canada, right? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:03:29] Yeah, that's right. So I'm from Canada. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:03:32] And were your parents also interested in gaming or was it just the kids? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:03:36] Um, I think my dad is... So he's not like the typical, if you think of like a parent to you have to help do everything on the computer because you don't understand, he's not like that. He's pretty tech-savvy. And I think he always understood gaming or electronics. And so he was kind of understanding of why we enjoyed the novelty of gaming. But he would try playing sometimes. But I don't think it was his thing, but it kept us like happy and interacting with each other. So I think they were OK with it. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:04:06] I think that's so cool. I mean, my daughter has the type of parent who doesn't understand anything with gaming. It was so funny. I've told this story, but when when Red Dead was being released, Rockstar actually sent me a code for GTAV just so that I could kind of get used to playing, you know, a Rockstar game on the PS4. And and I think I guess -- oh it's two years since the game is released today. So I think that my daughter was twelve and I literally had to have her help me play GTA V, and it was so inappropriate. But I couldn't do it without her. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:04:45] Oh no. But it was a good like bonding moment or family moment? 

Kaili Vernoff [00:04:49] It really was. And actually, you know, I was sort of intimidated by playing even my game. And I think that the fact that Lucy, even though she wasn't a gamer, but she's just more proficient in technology, I think it was like it made it more fun for me to play and less frustrating because it was something that we were learning together. I think gaming can really be like a family bonding experience. And it sounds like you had that growing up. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:05:16] Yeah, exactly. I think it's super cool. Yeah. Some of my coolest memories is the kid is just playing games with my brothers, or like... Not always competitive games. Sometimes I just really enjoyed story games -- so like the story and the characters and the development and why are they doing these things? And he he would play games like Final Fantasy, which are heavily story driven. And it's actually kind of cute because he would wait for me, like if I was busy, he wouldn't play the storyline until he knew I could come watch. So it was kind of like a kind of nice moment for siblings as well. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:05:47] Yeah, that's a nice brother you've got. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:05:50] Yeah he's pretty cool, he's alright. Yeah. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:05:52] And at what point did you decide that you thought you could imagine a career for yourself in gaming, or did you always know? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:06:03] Um so, I mean, when I grew up, the careers in gaming, the only ones I could think of were like actual coding of gaming or creating games or testing games. So esports, as we know it today, didn't exist as a career option in the West, at least when I was studying or growing up. So it didn't become a thing until I got a bit older and I was finishing up my undergraduate studies, so I guess it's not... I'm not surprised that ended up where I am, but it was certainly not something that I set out intending to do. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:06:36] And you went to university in Toronto, right? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:06:40] Yeah, that was what I did, my undergraduate in Ottawa. And then I did my master's in University of Toronto, yeah.

Kaili Vernoff [00:06:46] Fantastic. So at what point did you sort of see that esports thing was growing into an industry where where you could or pursue it or did you fall into it? How did you get there? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:07:00] Yeah, I...In 2010, there was a game released called StarCraft II. It's kind of a second part, it's based on an older game, the first game called Brood War, and that was very popular in Korea. And they had a whole esports team. And when StarCraft II was released, that kind of came into the West as well -- the game, as well as the whole esports aspect of it. And I figured out, I found out that, oh, not only is this game really fun, but there's an actual website where people go and they can talk about the game and strategies and you can watch professional players practice a lot like live. And I was like, oh, this is super cool. And then I found out about tournaments and competitions and prize pools. So kind of happened by accident through a, you know, parallel to the interest in that game in particular. And then I actually went to my first live event and I was like, oh, it looks like there's a lot of moving pieces here and I would love to be one of them at some point. Yeah. So kind of a bit accidental. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:08:00] So I want to ask about that because I have never been to an esports tournament. I think they look insanely exciting. And so I want to pick your brain about them a little bit. What does it feel like there? Like what is the energy at these tournaments? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:08:19] It's so cool. It's it's hard to explain. It's really different per game to a lot of games or different speed and different kind of audience. But it's always electric energy. People are super excited. Even if you come in as somebody who maybe doesn't know anything about a particular game that's being played, you can always pick up like when something cool is happening or how excited and happy people are to be there. I certainly like hope you get to one because you just... It's it's exactly like being at a live sports event, but people are so much more passionate about it I feel. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:08:53] So I watched some in preparing to talk to you and it really did feel like, you know, all I could really describe it is in in the States would be like the NFL, where the audience feels absolutely a part of the competition. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:09:08] Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah. I think that's true. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:09:11] Here like, if, you know, if the quarterback throws a long pass and the receiver just misses it and the entire audience feels let down, like that's what it felt like watching a little bit of a of an esports competition. Is that accurate? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:09:24] Yeah, I think that's exactly it. It's like audience participation, almost like you're emotionally invested in it. You become super, even if you're coming to the stadium not particularly cheering for anybody, or as I said, not knowing, it's really hard not to get wrapped up in that because you really feel the tension in those exciting moments or, you know, the excitement if someone wins. It's super cool. So when events start again let me know if you want to come to one. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:09:50] Oh, my gosh. Yes. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:09:51] See if we get you there. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:09:52] Are you kidding? I'm already there. Oh, yes. That's so exciting. I would love that. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:09:57] Liquid jersey though. You have to come in a Liquid jersey.

Kaili Vernoff [00:09:59] I wouldn't even consider wearing a different jersey, I promise you. As a matter of fact, I think I may need one now just in preparation. So generally, when the world is functioning as the world used to function, do you travel with the team? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:10:15] I did, but my role is a bit different than when I started a team six years ago. But when I was managing teams directly, I did go to every single event with the team. And the purpose there is just to help when they're in an event. They don't want to have to worry about when they have to show up for media day, or what clothes to wear, or when they need to bring their gear to be looked at, or when they need to do a press interview with somebody. So they have a manager on site who just schedules that all for them. And they just have to worry about showing up at the time that they were told. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:10:51] So. So the manager almost functions like a handler? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:10:55] Yeah. Like being a team handler: making sure they're eating, making sure they're getting to bed on time, making their... You know, wearing the right clothes jersey, promoting the sponsors properly, this kind of stuff, as well as working with the tournament organizers themselves to make sure the playing conditions are optimal for the players. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:11:14] OK, so I want to talk more about what you were just saying about making sure that the team eats well and sleeps well and everything, because there's this outdated perception by people like me who are new to the world of gaming that think of gamers as like... it, it being an antisocial activity, that they're sitting at home, they're eating chips. But I imagine that competitive gamers have to stay like super, physically and mentally fit. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:11:44] Yeah, that kind of view that people who play video games are anti-social chip eating weirdos, I don't know, it's just a bit outdated. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:11:53] It is. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:11:53] And you can look at Twitch, all these streaming platforms where you have tons of people who are streaming to an audience, interacting with them, basically no different, in my view, than joining like a book club or some social club where you're coming together to supplement social interaction with something that people like and enjoy. If you're like me, you're kind of shy and introverted, it's something that you can talk about with new people. Yeah, I think you were going to say more. Sorry I interrupted you. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:12:21] No, I'm really glad that you said that. I love that analogy of a book club. That it's something I've noticed that especially I think one of the things with this lockdown is that people who are already in gaming communities already have like a way to connect with their social circle. And I think that, you know, I think that we'll see more and more of that as the world is changing. And so I think you're right, it is incredibly outdated. But in terms of, like, how physically and mentally fit the team needs to be, it seems to me like Team Liquid has addressed these issues in like a massive way. I was doing... Like I saw something that I think you were guiding players into the new facility. And it just looks like an incredible living space to optimize player's health. And I'm wondering if you can just tell me about that facility and how and how it works with the players. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:13:21] Yeah. So I think you're speaking of the one we just opened here in the Netherlands in Utrecht. Yeah. Yeah. So we have a second one as well, so this is our second attempt. So I think it's useful to contrast it with earlier in esports history, a lot of teams were of the opinion that, hey, the best way to get performance or team bonding is to just shove them on a house and have them play all day in their rooms or like in a basement together and then go upstairs and go to sleep. Maybe they'll be sharing rooms, just spending 24-7 next to each other. We kind of realized through the years that that's maybe not the best approach in terms of mental and physical health. So we've designed these facilities to, as you said, optimize that. So the one in the Netherlands, I think the most important thing is it has a bunch of spaces where the players can just relax or do other things and compete in their game. So we have the lounge room where they can chill and there's like a plant wall, very cozy, and they can play ping pong or they can play Rock Band or whatever. They have a cafeteria where they eat or can watch streams or watch movies. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:14:28] And is it true that you have, like, personal chefs for them? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:14:32] We do, yeah. So we have chefs who cook three meals a day for them, so they're eating well and we can kind of make sure they're fed and eating out at times, which is also important -- like routine. And I think the other thing is, is that the when they go into their rooms, they know that as soon as they walk through the door like this is the place where I work, I focus. This is where I'm listening to my teammates, my coach, I'm here to play. And when I leave that room, I can go upstairs and go to sleep and it's completely separate. So I think it's really important to get that disconnect and it's important for their... Like burnout that they don't feel that they're just on all the time. Because I think a lot of us in COVID have experienced this, where like your desk is in your sleeping area, it's really hard to, like, turn off your work. I guess. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:15:18] It's so true. It is so true. I've noticed that I answer emails about work at all times of the day where I didn't used to do that. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:15:27] Mm hmm. This facility is kind of taking that into consideration and creating the separation. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:15:33] So they do live near the facility, but it's like they have rooms upstairs that are their own places that they can just go and turn off. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:15:42] Exactly. Yeah. And it's very close, so they don't have to worry about, you know, taking a cab or something to get home. It's just walking distance.  

Kaili Vernoff [00:15:51] So how much of an edge do you think this investment gives the players? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:15:55] Yeah, I think the mental aspect combined with, as you mentioned physical, like the meals that we give them. We have like gyms that they're all members of that we pay for the membership for... Obviously now not used. We have like a makeshift one that we kind of assembled. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:16:12] Right right...no gyms, right. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:16:13] Yeah. Yeah. So it's like as you mentioned earlier, like a lot of gamers are really, athletes are very like very fit. It's super trendy right now to be into fitness. They're motivated by it. They like see each other's progress and pushing each other, which is really cool. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:16:28] And I think that is. It's so fantastic to bring in a health aspect to. Yeah. To gaming. Yeah. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:16:34] And I think the edge it gives them is like this holistic mental, physical health approach that we're doing. It really improves their focus, their reaction time, their alertness, their communication skills, like the ability not only to communicate with their team, but also like how you're feeling. Like, oh, this is making me feel like this so that your teammates can understand you better, team bonding, right? Their posture is improving, just like small things that really make a big difference at the highest levels. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:17:01] I think that's fantastic. I know for me when I have like a big job, I don't know how much you know about me, but I'm an actress. And and when I'm working, I really like to try to get to my dressing room, my trailer, whatever, as early as I can so that I can shut off all outside noise so that when it's time to work, I'm not inundated with, you know, just everything else, the emails and the texts and...OK, but let's say there's a giant win. Let's say that they've had a big win. What is that celebration look like? Is there junk food? Like is there like a grace period? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:17:42] Yeah. We don't, like, deprive them of anything fun. We definitely like you, of course, in moderation. They can have sugar. It's like good for them actually. You know, they want to be able to be enjoyable and not feel like, OK, we just want a huge tournament. Now we have to go back to practicing right away. We're lenient. We give them breaks and all the stuff. It's important to have, you know, balance in all things. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:18:04] Yeah, I agree with you. I, I was actually I was thinking about you. I know now that we're in COVID people are, as you said, are like working from home. But it seems to me like you must have to keep all hours available for when the team needs something. So how do you balance  your personal life with such a full plate? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:18:26] I don't know. It's hard. You're right. It's all...you have so many people need to think about. You don't... I don't really ever stop thinking about work, but I think that's an issue for anybody whose hobby is also their job. So like to avoid sounding like a complete jerk, like if you think of it like an accountant, right? Accounting is very difficult, hard, and important work. But if you ask an accountant like, hey, what's your hobby? They're probably not going to be like, oh, yeah, I go home and do some accounting on the weekends. Like, if you ask anybody in gaming or like other industries like that, they're going to say, well, you have my hobby is gaming, and then that's really hard to turn off your brain. If you like watching streams or thinking about the game, or like, oh, this character just got a patch, how does that affect my team? Like all this stuff. It's really difficult. I think for me it's important to have, I have other hobbies other than gaming just to get away from the screen and like you said, like really disconnect and just think about other things for a while. But of course, like compared to where I am now to I was when I just started, it's gotten a lot better this balance. I think part of it is esports is an industry becoming more cognizant of having, how important it is to have enough staff to cover all the tasks, how important it is to have job descriptions that are like this is what you're responsible for, how important it is to have time off, and then, of course, from myself to have the discipline to be able to set boundaries like, you know, don't work on weekends anymore or get like a genuine evaluation of what my priorities are so that I know what to focus on in the time I have at work. Yeah, I think I think it's like both things like from the company but also from from me like growing and learning. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:20:18] Yeah. I mean, you are in an industry that is growing right before our eyes. So, you know, it's it's... I imagine that all those things are coming to you, you know, in real time, like, oh, I can't work seven days a week. I won't be able to, you know, be at the top of my game if I don't have any time for myself. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:20:39] Yeah, I mean, just for additional context, like I mentioned, I started six years ago. I took eight months off of esports. I did something else completely different because I was yeah, I was working traveling to all these events we talked about. I think I was home. Maybe I was away two weeks of every month. So it's like half of the time on the road, half the time at home. I was like working almost all the time and I took time off and to try to just like take a break before I exerted myself too much. And then I came back and like, this was when I kind of realized, hey, I need to have more balance because it's not healthy. Yeah. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:21:16] I think that is so important and so hard to do. I think that when you step away from something that is maybe just becoming too all-consuming and you take a break from it, you can go back to it with a passion. You say wait, that is what I want to do, so how can I do it in a way that that still leaves me having a life? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:21:40] Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think that's exactly it. And I'm happy I'm back now for just over a year and I'm happy to be back. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:21:49] I just want to say that it seems like the coolest job on the planet to me. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:21:52] It is pretty cool. Yeah. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:21:57] Just when you said that I could come to a sports tournament, I literally got, like, chills everywhere. I was like, so cool. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:22:03] Yeah. Yeah. For sure!  It is pretty cool. I was just talking to my brother about this yesterday. He's jealous. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:22:11] I'm sure he is. I'm sure. I'm jealous. So, so about like your decision to enter back into EA Sports and to and to try to find a way to make it work. I know that you have spoken in other interviews about your background in philosophy and how that helps you in your job. I'd love to hear a little more about that, because that really got me thinking. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:22:35] Yeah, me too. So, yeah. Philosophy. I mentioned I did my master's in philosophy, so that was my original intention. I want to go to academia and then I kind of fell into esports. But I think how it helps me in my job: generally, I think social sciences just teach people how to research and how to...you know critical thinking and analytical skills, how to communicate, how to present your ideas coherently. These are very important things in any field where you're dealing with people as well. In philosophy, I think what's super important is that it really teaches you empathy and beyond, just like logical empathy, as in the ability to listen to someone's argument and take it in the strongest possible iteration. It's also teaching you empathy as a mechanism that's fundamental to social relation and how we understand the world and moral knowledge and things like this. I think that's super important. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:23:37] Yeah, you know, it's occurring to me as we're talking, that your players must come from all different cultures and countries and backgrounds. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:23:46] Yeah, yeah. I think we're across now twenty-two different countries. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:23:53] Wow! Yeah, so you're right, empathy for... For understanding that one size doesn't fit all, that, that I'm working with people who have totally different expectations, totally different histories, totally different priorities. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:24:08] Yeah, I think it's important dealing with people. But like, as you mentioned, backgrounds, experiences, cultures, these all play a role in working with player personality and how they interact with you. I think one example is: I had a player who got asked to do a podcast kind of like this one and they said "Yeah we really like him." And I said, you know, he's a bit shy and he's not really sure of himself, but let's partner him with another player who's quite good with them. I know the hosts are very professional and very like. They'll be good with him. They'll get him to talk. It'll be comfortable, a good, safe setting. He was like, OK, I'll do it. And then like three days before he wrote to me, like, "Brittany, I'm so sorry. I cannot do it. Like, I'm having anxiety. I can't sleep. It's like affecting... I just cannot do it. I'm so nervous." And while it's easy to just be like either "too bad you're doing it" or like, "OK, it's fine, never mind" I think the kind of  empathy that I've learned is more compassionate, in a way. Like I heard him. I understood from his perspective why he's feeling this way. I felt like, you know, I'm feeling anxious doing this myself so I can understand, like, why he feels this way and then trying to help him, like, can we, you know, explore with why do you feel anxious about it? How can we make more comfortable and the solution that we would work on the things that he was most nervous about in small bits so that next time, you know, he gets this opportunity, he can feel more comfortable. Yeah, it's kind of interesting. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:25:39] Yeah, that's fantastic. You must get very close to the players, I would think. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:25:43] Yeah. Yeah. They've become like my children basically. Like I don't have kids but they're like my kids. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:25:49] Yeah. Well it sounds like it, it sounds like, you know, in a very real way you're helping them navigate this world in a way that is safe and way that they know that they are supported. And and I imagine a lot of them are young. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:26:04] Yeah. Like I think between 18 and 22 are normally about the ages players are professional. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:26:10] You're managing a whole bunch of 18-to-22-year-olds! That is... That's not nothing. And do, do you have therapists on site for, for, for things like anxiety. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:26:23] We have mental coaches, so we have three that are on retainer, basically, they work with the teams. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:26:29] What is a mental coach? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:26:31] So they focus more on like how it looks, anxiety, how that would impact your focus and how you play a game, for example, or if you have things like, you know, you need to communicate the way you feel to your team, how do you communicate that in a way that's constructive and healthy to, you know, keep your team performing at an optimal level? So it's focusing a little more in competitive aspect and how these kind of anxiety and things affect your competitive play. It's quite useful for that. And I think just dealing with it in general. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:27:06] Yeah, because it sounds to me like I mean, anxiety is such a beast. I've struggled with it some in my life. And it really it robs you of your joy, that level of anxiety. That's been my experience, that when I've had anxiety, it can really rob me of the joy. I like this idea of turning it into a tool for focus. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:27:26] Yeah. Yeah, and they're very good at it, the metal coaches we work with. And the players are very happy with it, and very like, it's useful to them, which is important. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:27:39] So in very real ways, you're now dealing with a roster of people that have a certain amount of fame, and I'm sure that a lot of people want to get involved with them in terms of marketing. And I know that part of your job involves helping players choose how they want to express their own personal brands. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:27:59] Mm hmm. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:28:00] I mean, and what I do for a living that does come up a lot as well. There are certain things that just for my own personal reasons, I don't want to do a commercial for, whether it's a product that goes against some belief system of mine or a political movement. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:28:15] Right. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:28:15] But there's fluid things in there. There are there are ways that I can work with my managers to say, well, if I if I take this job, I'll I'll donate to a cause that I believe in with a certain amount of the money. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:28:27] Right. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:28:27] There are ways that you can can you know, can can continue to do what you love and not shut yourself down to opportunities, but also stand on your own two feet about what you believe in. And I'm wondering how you guide the players in a way that makes that marketing stuff feel authentic to their values. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:28:47] Yeah, that's that's a big part of what we're trying to do in talent management for them. So a lot of players, just when they get signed, they don't really think about this. They just think, oh, Team Liquid is signing me because I'm a great whatever Dota player. So I'm just going to come out to play Dota and that's all I'm going to think about. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:29:06] OK, wait, you have to tell me what Dota is. I'm so embarrassed that I don't know. But tell me what Dota stands for. Does it stand for something? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:29:13] Defense of the Ancients. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:29:15] Oh, that's a very cool name. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:29:17] So your like your core, like your nexxus, like in League it's called a core. It's called an ancient in Dota. So you're defending the ancient, that's what it stands for. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:29:28] Perfect. OK, so go ahead. I interrupted you. So let's say they come to play that game. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:29:32] Yeah. They think, OK, I'm here, I'm really good at Dota. I'm not going to think about anything else, just here to play Dota, which is to an extent true because, you know, we want them to be competing and that's what we want to focus on. But I'm trying to also help them see a bit that they have value, like their value, beyond just being good at a game. Like they inspire people. People want to watch them for the personality of who they are. And this helps them, like you mentioned, the age being eighteen to twenty-two-ish... When you're twenty-two and beyond, like you can have some more stability in your future if you think about these things and really work on them because you know, you become like a beacon in the community for, for certain things. That's really useful. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:30:13] Yeah. Yeah. It gives you longevity in a way past... Yeah. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:30:17] Yeah, yeah. So if I help them to kind of identify their voice, right? Make a personal connection 00  like what do you care about? What are you motivated by? What changes do you want to see in the world? What kind of is your personal mission statement? These things that define who you are and what you want to represent... And then think about causes or products the way they resonate with this or don't. So I think maybe it's something similar in your case, like where you are taking like, why do I want to do this? Not just like "why does this particular product appeal to me or why do I think it's important?" So I think once you've thought about that, it's a lot easier to identify which causes you want to kind of associate yourself with. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:31:04] It's it's so true and it's such a personal decision. I you know, it's there I think it's incredible that you're able to meet these players where they are. It sounds like you're able to meet them where they are and have these one-on-one connections so that, so that rather than imposing on them oh, you want a, I don't know, a sports drink. You want, you know, something like that, because that will have longevity and it can make money... but you really want them to find a way that they can feel good about what it is that they're supporting. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:31:33] Yeah. And it's authentic. It's more... It resonates with them. In terms of -- I think you had mentioned something about political movements or things beyond just products -- maybe also just helping them to see like, you know, think globally, act locally, so what can you do to help make changes in your immediate surroundings? It's not always about just, you know, OK, I'm going to raise money and give money to this. Sometimes it's other things you can do, or encourage people who, you know, admire you to do, that can make an impact as well. So I'm trying to help...I try to help them understand, like the bigger picture of things if that makes sense.

Kaili Vernoff [00:32:15] Right! Yes. I mean, I'm very upfront about my political leanings on my social media. But when when I'm speaking to fans, I just encourage them to use their voice to vote. I don't have to take sides. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:32:26] Yeah. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:32:26] You know, you can encourage people to go find what's important to them and just work towards making that materialize. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:32:34] Yeah. And I think it's so much more helpful because it's very easy. It's when you see these issues or see...kind of on the grander scale, how things are going (to shit, basically), it's very easy to be like, oh, I'm so overwhelmed, I can't do anything, what am I supposed to do? But. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:32:53] It's paralyzing. It's paralyzing. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:32:55] Yeah, paralyzing you. Yeah. And if you break it down into, like, OK, I can't do everything, but I can do some things, and this is in my control, so let me do this and encourage people like me also to do this and to hopefully effect some sort of change. Yeah. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:33:10] Yeah. I think that's I mean if you don't mind my saying so, it sounds like they are incredibly lucky to have you there. It sounds like, really, I can hear how much this is a passion for you. I can see why it's hard for you to leave your job at home because you're dealing with people that you care about. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:33:29] Yeah. Yeah. It really, it really is. And yeah. So it's so hard to turn off because it's like I worry about them, like they're, you know, my kids or family or whatever. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:33:40] Yeah, yeah, they are in a very real way, they are family to you. So how how does Team Liquid recruit? How do they find their players? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:33:50] We have a big, big team who are all experts in different games like Dota and other games and mostly like. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:33:58] I know what that is now. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:33:58] You do! You pass the quiz. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:34:02] To defend the? Defend the? Angel? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:34:08] Gahh! Ancient! 

Kaili Vernoff [00:34:08] Ancient. Yeah, yeah, I got it. OK, keep going. I guess I was just testing you. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:34:13] Yeah. So we have like most of these competitive games have an internal ranking system. So you're always when you play a competitive game, you're playing against people for similar skill and this is all visible. So an easy... One easy way is to see the ranking of different people. And normally you want people who are at the top top ranks. But beyond that, it's also how well do they fit into the team? How well do they fit into the brand, even like is this the type of person you want to work with? Is this the type of person who our team wants to work with? Are they coachable? Are they like competitive? Are they passionate? Do they have all these qualities? And generally it's first, it's like skill. There are a lot of players who are very, very good. And then after that, it's comes down to fit and the player's individual motivation as well. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:35:06] And how do you determine that? Do you bring them during normal times when we're not all stuck at home... But do you bring them in for interviews? Do you have them play on-site or do you guys go out on the road or do people go out on the road if it's not you? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:35:20] Yeah, it's it's not like... So most of the the the everything can be done online technically. So you can have them join. Like if you have a player who's really performing well and they play a certain role and you think, OK, let's have them try out. Or you can even host open tryouts. I know that teams do that as well. And you just have them play with players and on your support staff or on your team and see how well they perform and different things. And then you can usually get from there to a point where you're serious about a couple candidates. Of course, competitive history makes a difference, too. There's a big pool of talent who's already competing in different leagues and they become free agents. And that's also an option. So, you know, that's like tested in a league, this player. Yeah. There are different ways. It's one thing like I think that can be improved in general in esports. Just having... You know, in traditional sports, you have like feeder leagues. You have college leagues where you can really find new talent. Esports is not that developed yet, but I think I think you could get there. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:36:26] Have you ever gotten to be like part of the conversation when a player gets offered a spot? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:36:34] Yes. Yeah. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:36:35] How exciting is that? Because I think these players must freak out. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:36:39] It's really nice. Yeah. They get really excited. I also get to do a lot of calls with like parents, which is kind of sweet, like the moms that are worried about them. But it's always cool to see like how excited they are and. Yeah. And hopefully that they, you know, they feel Team Liquid is a good... 

Kaili Vernoff [00:36:58] Forgive me if this is a novice question because it definitely is. But what about language. If you, if you're recruiting people from all over the world, do you have to have translators on-site or how does that work? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:37:10] Yeah. So a lot of English is spoken by a lot of like our European teams. There's like, our Dota roster is three different countries, but they all speak English. We have Portuguese-speaking teams in Brazil. They speak Portuguese only on their roster and they have Portuguese support staff. Same with the same players in Japan. So they speak Japanese. They speak Japanese and have Japanese support staff. So normally we try to get English-speaking if it's on an English speaking roster. But it's possible to have, you know, non-English speaking teams. And I know other orgs have non-English speaking teams. Yeah.

Kaili Vernoff [00:37:51] yeah, I would think that would be hard to, like, come from another culture, another country and join a team and not speak literally the language. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:38:01] Yeah, it's different. It's kind of like we talked about earlier. But, you know, gaming being anti-social, I have a lot of my players are like "I learned English from playing games. And that's how I learned, like about different cultures was through playing games." And now they're on teams like speaking English, the English proficiently just from playing games online, which is pretty cool. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:38:22] That's really cool. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:38:24] Yeah. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:38:25] OK, so I was looking at the rosters when I was getting ready to talk to you and it's very possible that I missed it. But I did not see any female players. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:38:35] Right. That unfortunately, we don't have any female players on our roster. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:38:41] So I was very surprised about that, because I do feel like I think maybe because in in doing this podcast and in playing, you know, Susan Grimshaw in my game, I talk to so many female gamers. Is that pretty common in esports teams for it to be totally male? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:39:00] Yes, it's competitive gaming, but esports is male dominated. Cloud9 yesterday just announced the female Valorant team, which is pretty cool, but certainly I think it's the norm. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:39:13] Oh, that's right. You guys play Valorant, right? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:39:16] Yeah, we have a boy team, but Cloud9 announced a female team, which is cool. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:39:21] So do you think that the industry is ready to include more female competitive players? I mean, is there is there like here, the NFL, right -- national Football League women are not allowed on on rosters -- there was a huge thing and I'm going to get this wrong, but there was just a female coach that went to one of the one of the NFL teams, and it was like a massive breakthrough for a coach. But women can't play that game. And there are reasons for it that that they give about, you know, just the violent nature of the game and just the. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:39:53] Size difference, probably. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:39:53] Size difference. But but in gaming, I would think that that would be a great leveler. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:40:00] Yeah. I mean, this is um...A lot of people way smarter than me have spent a lot of time studying this. So I'm just speaking from personal feeling, but like that you said "ready." Is the industry ready in terms of readiness? Yes. I think it's just so big because we're talking about, first of all, just changing how we socialize kids in general. If you have a boy who expresses an aptitude for athletics, they are generally identified really quickly and given, like supportive, training, coaching all this stuff and set up to succeed. And boys in general are encouraged to be very strong at sport, whereas girls don't necessarily get that. Even girls who are really good at sports. And I think if you have boys who are being pushed to be good at sports, physical sports, you get these tiny experts say, like neurological differences, where then boys become better reflexes with practical physics, spatial reasoning, hand-eye coordination. And I think it's kind of translates into gaming, too, because the argument I've always heard is like, well, boy, male gamers are still like they have better reflexes and better hand-eye coordination. But I think that's something that like if you just socialize, make it more acceptable, more younger age. I think that I don't think that there's any basis for that. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:41:25] Right. It's not -- you're saying if I'm hearing you correctly -- there's not a physical reason that men have faster reflexes. It's that when they showed a proficiency for gaming or tech that they were given more encouragement and more time with it, so their reflexes got faster, and it's harder for the women to catch up. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:41:45] Yeah, I think that's that's that's how I feel. And that's why I think... I don't know if that's true. It's a complete armchair guess, but that's that's what I think. And then I do think that that's changing generally in sports, too, where if a girl who expressed a desire to be competitive, that's you know, now it's taking a bit more seriously. I think it is getting a bit more support. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:42:10] Mm hmm. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:42:11] I think the other thing also is just acceptance, like women and girls in esports. In professional gaming, but also like behind the scenes, they generally have an additional pressure of this idea that they have to perform because they are representing their gender and essentially legitimizing their own existence in the space, right? And I think that just... 

Kaili Vernoff [00:42:34] Yes. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:42:35] Extra pressure that maybe isn't given to males who are competing. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:42:41] Right. A woman out there in that field feels like she's carrying like all of womanhood on her back. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:42:47] Yeah. I mean, maybe they don't think about it, but think it is a pressure. There's actually like a show on Netflix right now called The Queen's Gambit. Have you heard of this? 

Kaili Vernoff [00:42:57] Oh, yes. We watched the first episode last night. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:43:01] I love it so far. But there's a scene where, like, I don't want to spoil it for you, but it's not a really big spoiler... But, you know, obviously,. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:43:09] Yes. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:43:10] And she's going to go and beat some boys at chess in a man's space, right? And she's coming in proficient, and she doesn't really think about it like I'm a girl. I'm good. She just thinks about I want to be the best at chess." But she does this interview with Time Magazine and that Time wants published. And then she's like, well, they didn't talk about anything. Like they didn't talk about my training. They didn't talk about how I do the Sicilian defense. All they talked about was what I look like and that I'm a girl, right? And I think it's like I... That really resonated with me because it's like sometimes I feel like that, too, right? Like, they they don't really focus on like when you're... I was a woman in philosophy as well. And that was like also something that they always focus on: OK, well, you're a female and you're studying this, this and this. OK, well why aren't you talking about, like, what I'm doing instead of that I'm a woman. It's interesting. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:44:00] It is interesting and really well said. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:44:02] Yeah. And it's difficult. It's really difficult because like on the one hand I do...there are some women's only events like Counterstrike. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:44:12] Oh, interesting. OK, like tournaments? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:44:14] Yeah. Tournaments. So they have a Counterstrike -- it's a first-person shooter game. There are women's only leagues and women's only teams and these are probably like the best supported and operated women's only sports leagues, which is cool because they have you know, here's a platform where you can have women who get the support, they get a space to hone their skills they have, they can perfect the skills, they can compete. And it's it's a bit safer than like putting a woman on a male team, because if you put...or a woman team in a male league for example because if you do that, because a lot of that unwanted attention we spoke about. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:44:52] I don't know that we spoke about the unwanted attention. So when you say safer, you think that they would get...When you say unwanted attention, are we talking about like bullying or are we talking about sexual harassment or all those things? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:45:06] I mean, more like the idea of like you talked about being under the microscope. Like the pressure. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:45:11] Yes, for sure. Yes. Yes. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:45:13] Yeah. That's more I was talking about. I think. I mean, that's a whole... Bullying abd harassment is a whole other podcast. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:45:19] Yes. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:45:22] But yeah  I'm speaking more from, like, the competitive stance. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:45:24] So when you say safer, you just mean, I think what you when you say it's a safer environment for them, I think you just mean that it's a place where they can really shine and celebrate and play hard without having to carry the fact that they're women and have that separate them as they're trying to play. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:45:40] Yeah. that's what I mean. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:45:42] Yeah. I totally got you now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I got you. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:45:45] Yeah. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:45:46] And and you know, I've, I've interviewed people who are streamers, really successful streamers who say that when they play on their own and they're not streaming, they won't want to do voice commands because they would just rather play a game, you know, with a crew or a squad or whatever you guys call it. And and and not and not have people draw attention to the fact, like, oh, I like your voice or... 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:46:11] Yeah, it's I do the same. Like, I would just want to... I'm just bad. So just call me bad, but don't call me bad because I'm a girl. Like I'm just bad. C'mon, it's very annoying. Yeah, it's kind of weird, the women's-only because... So we have this women's-only league, which is great in some sense, but also like, they're not getting the support, they're not getting the same prize money,. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:46:37] I'm sure they're not getting the same sponsors... 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:46:38] The same sponsors, yeah. So it's like, OK, we want to show some pageantry like here are the women, we're going to show that they're a novelty. They're competing, they're good at games. You want to show them. But we're still going to keep them separate from the men who are where all the focus and prize money and competition is. So it just feels sometimes it's like I think about it a lot and I don't know how I feel about it, really. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:47:03] Yeah, you're in a really a very interesting position there, because, you know you know, from from from your own experience that there's no reason that women can't be playing in these leagues, right? And that and that "come on!" Like, you know, are we going to have another industry where it's hard for for women to break in? Like when or how do we... How do we show the powers that be that it's not necessary to separate us like that? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:47:33] Yeah, and I don't have the answer, and I don't know what it is. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:47:36] Me neither. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:47:37] But it is interesting question at least. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:47:40] Yeah, it really is. Um, so I'm sure that you get a ton of people asking for advice breaking into the industry, not not to be on the team, but to to have jobs just in esports. And I read an interview where I thought this was so great. You advise people to get really specific about their own skill sets, even if they're applying for an entry level job, not to just say I want to do anything. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:48:06] Yeah. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:48:06] Why why do you why do you give that advice? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:48:09] Yeah, I think when you really want something, you're really tempted to just say "I will do literally anything if I can be in esports like I'll be the janitor. I don't care! Like anything!" It's very tempting to do that because that makes you sound like. you're going to work hard, but it doesn't help me as a potential employer to be like, OK, what what do you want to do? Like, how can I help you get to where you want to be? I don't want to just make you be, you know, whatever job I can throw at you because you want anything, I want to see, like what skill set you have. How can you fit...how do you fit my team? That's just as important to me as having, you know, the desire to just do anything. I think it's like most knowing, even if it's like super basic, like "I know I don't have a lot of experience in industry, but I know I love working with people and I have experience doing this, this and this, where I helped people, whatever. I would love to work with a team." And that already helps me to know, OK, this person wants to go in this track and I can I could use somebody like that and I could help them and they would be happy. That's important to me too. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:49:12] So it was right because someone might say, I'm happy to clean the floors, but then when they get there, that's not really what they want. And then you've got to... I think that is such fantastic advice really for any industry not to just say I see myself in that industry and I'll do anything but to say here's what I have to offer it. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:49:31] Yeah, yeah. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:49:32] Here's what I bring to the table. I'm really a good writer, you know, without having to say I want to be I want to be a writer or I want to do your press releases. But just to say I'm looking for a job, here's my skill set. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:49:44] Yeah. And this is what I can offer. And I love you guys like whatever. But yeah, I think it's just if I'm going to be hiring somebody, I want them to feel like fulfilled. And that's what they're doing is important to them and that makes them happy. That's important to me. So... 

Kaili Vernoff [00:50:01] Yeah, yeah. So what do you think is the most common misconception about working in esports? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:50:07] What do I get? A lot from people... It's always like, oh, like you must play games a lot or you must be like really good. It's like, dude, I wish I had time to play games like I don't. And a lot of times, as  I mentioned before, like I don't want to be at the PC all the time. So like I try to do other things. I think that's the biggest one. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:50:27] Right, right, that you're just sitting around playing games for a living. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:50:31] Yeah, yeah, it's like, yeah, I hardly do that. I mean, there are jobs that they need that, there are parts of esports that need that. But not mine, not my part. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:50:39] Right. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:50:40] Yeah. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:50:40] What do you think is the most challenging part of what you do? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:50:48] The creative challenge of learning about each player and who they are as a person and coming up with stuff that's unique and comfortable to them. It's challenging because you have, like we talked about before, there's so many different personalities and backgrounds that I really have to familiarize myself with. Also so that they're comfortable with me, too. It's difficult, but I like it. Yeah, I think that's the hardest part. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:51:19] Yeah, yeah, I think that would be it would have to be because right people are not a puzzle like you...you can't just figure them out without spending time and really getting to know what is important to them. All right. So I know that we've talked about a lot of stuff and we said that, like, obviously you don't have the power to fix your industry or make it work or anything. But let's say that you did. Let's say that you could influence the whole future of eports. What would that, what would that look like? If you could influence the direction it moves, what would it look like and what's really important to you in your industry? 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:51:57] I think to me it's just eports being like a legitimate competition. Like I see a lot of... People do understand now that, OK, esports, there's this world, it's called esports, it's competitive and professional, but can you believe the salary that these guys get salaries and they play games all day? Like, I just... You hear this beat all the time in the media. I'm just tired of it. And I think it's like undermining a lot of the endeavors that we do as people who are passionate about the scene. I just really want to see that, like, just... You take it a bit more seriously. And then, of course, with that, like, from my perspective, just having like unions, I think that plays into legitimacy. So, like, player unions, talent unions, employee unions. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:52:49] Yeah. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:52:50] I think that's... I mean, we talked a bit about like I got burned out. Maybe I don't want other people to have that either. Maybe something like a union would help, if they feel secure in the job and they feel comfortable and they know like responsibilities, they have a wage, they have time off, they have health care, all the stuff. Maybe not a very sexy answer, but that's... 

Kaili Vernoff [00:53:11] Actually I'm sitting here with my jaw dropped because I love that answer, because you can't fix everything. You can't make sure everyone gets time off. But a union can be... I mean, I'm a very proud union member. And when I was young, I shared my apartment with my best friend. She was a model and I was an actress. And the difference between what we could expect when we went to work was huge because models were not unionized. So they could keep her there incredibly late. They could ask her to put actual motor oil in her hair because they thought that that would look really good. And there was no one there to make sure that what she was doing was safe and fair. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:53:53] Damn, that must have been interesting. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:53:55] Yeah, it is really interesting. And it really made me realize that a young age that that a union...That that a union protects me in ways that I can't protect myself. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:54:08] Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:54:12] I love this answer. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:54:14] Oh thank you. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:54:14] And that, you know, and that is something that that that you can have some effect on by talking to the right people. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:54:22] Yeah, I'm hoping. I'm hoping like I see it happening. I see. In the works, you know. Yeah. I think it is very important. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:54:29] I think so too. And I think you are.... I think you are a great advocate for a union movement. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:54:37] Yay! 

Kaili Vernoff [00:54:37] Yay! Yeah. OK, so as we're winding down here, I want to ask you, since we're talking about how everything is a team and it's really about people and we know that you can't really accomplish anything in this world all by yourself, I would love to give you an opportunity to tell me about a time in your life or in your career when somebody recognized something special in you and gave you an opportunity to shine. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:55:01] Yeah, I think our founder is guy called Victor Goossens, sorry, I pronounced it really bad. He's going to make fun of me later. He's a Dutch guy. He founded the company and he's become like a super great mentor to me. And I think when I started in esports. I was kind of part-time just doing my own thing. And he was the one to kind of recognize that, you know, this seems like somebody who's really passionate and kind of smart. So maybe I should give her opportunities to do other things where she can shine and share her opinion, and I'm interested to hear what she has to say. So I think in like he gave me an opportunity to move to the Netherlands many years ago, and I think I'm super grateful for that. And that was somebody recognizing me and I was super appreciative of him. And he's been really great supporting me. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:55:54] That's fantastic. And it sounds to me like that was a really good gamble on his end. He saw something and you have more than delivered. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:56:03] Well, thank you, I hope he feels that way. Thanks. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:56:06] Well, I have really enjoyed my time with you today. I feel like, I love being in what I call learning mode. And so coming into this conversation, knowing so little, I feel like I learned so much. And it just your passion for what you do has made me just kind of want to seek out more information about esports. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:56:27] That's super cool. I'm glad to hear that. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:56:29] OK, thank you so much, Brittany. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:56:31] Yeah, thank you so much. It was super fun. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:56:33] It was super fun. I really I'm I'm looking forward to the world getting back to normal and coming to one of these competitions as your guest. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:56:40] Yeah, please. Please. I would love to send you to something. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:56:44] I would love it. All right. Well have a fantastic day. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:56:48] You too! Take care. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:56:49] Bye. 

Brittany Lattanzio [00:56:50] Bye. 

Kaili Vernoff [00:56:54] That was so interesting, and I seriously cannot wait until the world is ready for in-person events so I can see Team Liquid play live, Brittany would love to encourage our listeners to keep an eye on Team Liquid social media for any team-related news or to keep up to date with their tournaments. You can find links for Brittany and Team Liquid's social media in the show notes. And be sure to check out thegamehers.com For exclusive bonus questions with Brittany and all our other amazing Let's Play guests. 

Verta Maloney, the*gameHERs [00:57:23] Thanks for listening. Let's Play was brought to you by the*gameHERs, a community that connects all types of women gamers and welcomes every human who supports this. Let's Play was produced by Kaili Vernoff and co-produced by the*gameHERs team, Laura Deutsch, Rebecca Dixon, Verta Maloney, Heather Ouida and Alexis Wilcock with sound design by Frank Verderosa. Please visit thegamehers.com for show notes, to access exclusive bonus material, and to learn more about the*gameHERs community. And we'd so appreciate if you subscribed and gave us a five-star review. Thanks again for listening.