In this episode, Kaili Vernoff (Susan Grimshaw in RDR2) interviews the wildly talented actress Alex McKenna. Alex was a finalist in the*gameHERs awards for her incredible portrayal of Sadie Adler in Red Dead Redemption 2. Having literally grown up in Hollywood, Alex has worked steadily in the business, appearing in over 40 films and TV shows to date. Alex and Kaili touch on what it was like to start acting as a kid, her move to New York, her time in the Van der Linde gang, how she's keeping busy in quarantine, and so much more.
Follow Alex McKenna on social media:
Instagram: @maxmagpie
Twitter: @MsAlexMcKenna
Alex's upcoming work includes:
Film: Doula
Podcasts: Good Grief, In the Grey
For bonus material with Alex and other Let's Play guests, visit: https://thegamehers.com/bonus-material
For a transcript of this episode, click here.
In this episode, Kaili Vernoff (Susan Grimshaw in RDR2) interviews the wildly talented actress Alex McKenna. Alex was a finalist in the*gameHERs awards for her incredible portrayal of Sadie Adler in Red Dead Redemption 2. Having literally grown up in Hollywood, Alex has worked steadily in the business, appearing in over 40 films and TV shows to date. Alex and Kaili touch on what it was like to start acting as a kid, her move to New York, her time in the Van der Linde gang, how she's keeping busy in quarantine, and so much more.
Follow Alex McKenna on social media:
Instagram: @maxmagpie
Twitter: @MsAlexMcKenna
Alex's upcoming work includes:
Film: Doula
Podcasts: Good Grief, In the Grey
For bonus material with Alex and other Let's Play guests, visit: https://thegamehers.com/bonus-material
For a transcript of this episode, click here.
The Let’s Play Podcast
Season 2, Episode 10
Alex McKenna
Sadie Adler in RDR2
TRANSCRIPTS ARE GENERATED USING A COMBINATION OF SPEECH RECOGNITION SOFTWARE AND HUMAN TRANSCRIBERS, AND MAY CONTAIN ERRORS. PLEASE CHECK THE CORRESPONDING AUDIO BEFORE QUOTING IN PRINT.
Alex McKenna [00:00:00] Also, like what a gift on certain days to come in and to be just, you know, stabbing people, you know, really tapping into that rage of, you know, fighting. And I think, you know, I'm a typically very positive person to have a constructive, creative, safe place to funnel that energy. Truly. What a gift. [00:00:23][23.1]
Verta Maloney, the*gameHERs [00:00:30] Welcome to Let's Play by the*gameHERs, a podcast hosted by actress Kaili Vernoff. Fans know Kaili best as the fiery Susan Grimshaw in Red Dead Redemption 2, and Miranda Cowan in GTA V. Our series features some of the most informed and exciting people in the gaming industry today. Kaili and her guests discuss careers, gaming and so much more. If you like what you hear, be sure to check out thegamehers.com website to hear exclusive bonus material from each of our guests.
Kaili Vernoff [00:00:56] Hey, everybody, and welcome to our Season 2 finale. As promised, I have an incredible conversation to share with you all. Gamers will recognize my guest for her pitch-perfect performance as the raw, dynamic, vengeful, and loyal Sadie Adler in Red Dead Redemption 2. That's right. Today, you'll hear from my friend, the wildly talented actress Alex McKenna. Having literally grown up in Hollywood, Alex has worked steadily in the business, appearing in over 40 films and TV shows to date. Alex and I touch on what it was like to start acting as a kid, her move to New York, her time in the Van der Linde gang, how she's keeping busy in quarantine and so much more. Alex is a goddamn treasure and I am so thrilled that I'm able to share our chat with all of you. All right, here we go.
Kaili Vernoff [00:01:47] Miss McKenna, are you there?
Alex McKenna [00:01:49] Oh, man. Hello. Hello.
Kaili Vernoff [00:01:51] OK, how's your sound? Can you can you hear?
Alex McKenna [00:01:54] Yeah, I can hear you great. How does it sound for me?
Kaili Vernoff [00:01:57] Perfect. You sound great.
Alex McKenna [00:01:58] OK, awesome. I'm in my... I'm in my little booth. Great.
Kaili Vernoff [00:02:04] OK, so I thank you so much for making time for this, Alex.
Alex McKenna [00:02:08] I mean, thank you for having me. I'm so honored.
Kaili Vernoff [00:02:11] I'm so excited to talk to you. I think one of the things that the... That the fans of our game probably don't realize or understand is that we've actually gotten to know each other better since the game was released.
Alex McKenna [00:02:25] That's absolutely true.
Kaili Vernoff [00:02:26] Right? It's true.
Alex McKenna [00:02:28] Yes.
Kaili Vernoff [00:02:28] That NDA prevented us. We couldn't get together. Do you remember that weird thing? I don't know if you were a part of this one. Like somehow some crazy fans out there in the interwebs put together that there was that there was a prequel happening or a sequel or they knew there was another Red Dead and they managed to figure out that, like, Ben and Rob were probably coming back. And then they sort of tracked all of their like... Their like mutual new friends on social media and managed to put together most of the cast.
Alex McKenna [00:03:00] Yes. From from Facebook and Instagram, from what I understand, maybe Twitter as well. Yeah, it was pretty wild.
Kaili Vernoff [00:03:07] Yeah. Yeah. And it was very accurate. They like they got most of us. It was so wild.
Alex McKenna [00:03:16] Yeah. Truly.
Kaili Vernoff [00:03:18] So Yeah. So since then we like we, we haven't...you know, we had all these restrictions, we couldn't meet up anywhere, we couldn't take pictures, we couldn't... We weren't supposed to follow each other on social media. So I have to say that I always loved when I got to be with you in the volume and got to work with you. But I have just adored getting to know you over the last two years.
Alex McKenna [00:03:41] OK, I feel the exact same way, truly. I you know, I used to joke when I was working that I never had scenes with women, and it was always just me and the boys. And I had the occasional ones with Abigail or Callie. But for most of my days, I was definitely the only female there. And so when I got to be in the camp scenes and actually interacting with these, I mean, truly, how lucky were we... Every actor was incredible.
Kaili Vernoff [00:04:12] Yeah, they cast the everloving shit out of that thing. It was like...it was like master class every time we went to work. And not to mention everyone was just so open and funny and brilliant, like they were all just people you'd want to hang out with. It was such a shame we couldn't.
Alex McKenna [00:04:29] Absolutely, absolutely. I had started doing these cameos and something I love to tell everybody is that we are all on a group chain now over text, and we probably communicate, I would say, closer to every day than every other day.
Kaili Vernoff [00:04:46] Yeah, I would say it's most it's most days, it's most days that someone reaches out and puts out a flare. And we are you're right. We are the luckiest.
Alex McKenna [00:04:55] Yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [00:04:56] OK. But we will circle back to our time in camp. I want to start at the beginning with you because you are a Hollywood girl, right? You grew up out there, and you really started in the business as a little kid. So how did that start for you?
Alex McKenna [00:05:15] Well, I was born and raised in Hollywood, California, on Sunset Boulevard, and then I did my first commercial at not even six months with Grace Jones, that was that was my claim to fame. I played one of many babies in a commercial for a Honda scooter, and Grace Jones was the star of it.
Kaili Vernoff [00:05:40] That is the coolest start ever.
Alex McKenna [00:05:43] It's a good one.
Kaili Vernoff [00:05:43] I'm sorry to interrupt you, but that's just the coolest, coolest start in the business ever. OK, continue.
Alex McKenna [00:05:49] And I, I, I think I did a few more commercials, but what really I think solidified the path on acting, at least for when I was a small child, was when I got the lead in the school play in kindergarten and was clearly very precocious and outgoing. And I loved to make people laugh. And I started auditioning as my after-school activity. I was very, very fortunate that my parents were not the typical showbiz parents, where they were, well my mother was very insistent that I went to normal school, that if I got good grades, if I did well then and this was something I wanted to do, it would be my after-school activity and not the end-all be-all of my existence. And so I think that carried me very well. I was able to say no to projects that I didn't want to do or, you know, when I wanted to go to the prom. Did I want to do that guest star or was I going to pass on it so that I could have this, you know, seminal high school experience?
Kaili Vernoff [00:06:56] I was thinking about you and about your parents. And my understanding is that your mom was in publicity, right? She was in PR?
Alex McKenna [00:07:05] Yes. Yes. She was a music producer first and then became a Hollywood publicist for Sylvester Stallone and Jodie Foster for a short bit. She worked with some incredible, incredible companies early on and did very well. She was a spitfire, absolutely gorgeous. You know, five-two-and-a-half blond woman who could command any room.
Kaili Vernoff [00:07:31] I think that from hearing you talk about your experience being a childhood actress, it sounds like she was the best advocate you could have wanted, right? I mean, being in PR, she probably saw enough of the downsides of our business to know that... Yeah, that's saying no sometimes is probably a great idea. And having a bit of childhood.
Alex McKenna [00:07:51] Absolutely.
Kaili Vernoff [00:07:52] So you had this great perspective about it, but you also worked a lot. I had so much fun digging through like your childhood stuff. And I saw that you had worked on Middle Ages with Amy Brennaman, who's amazing.
Alex McKenna [00:08:06] That was my first Aaron Spelling show. So little known fact: I had a wonderful time working on that show, absolutely loved Aaron Spelling and went to audition. I remember I was testing for oh man...Wow. Now it is escaping me. It was a show about a pastor's family. It's going to come to me. It was Jessica Beal's breakout role called...
Kaili Vernoff [00:08:33] Seventh Heaven?
Alex McKenna [00:08:35] Seventh Heaven. Thank you so much.
Kaili Vernoff [00:08:39] I haven't... I never saw that show, I don't know how I knew.
Alex McKenna [00:08:42] That's incredible. So I was testing for that. And Aaron Spelling had taken me aside and said, you know, "kid, you got this in the back. Just come in and show em what you got." I was like, OK, great, you know, cool. But my mother...I was such a such a sensitive and thoughtful kid that, you know, my mother had raised me not in a religious way. She had sent me to, you know, Jewish preschool, but said that we were spiritual. When I said that I felt like I was a witch, she went, OK, great. So it was never a thing. So this was a show about a Christian family. And I remember being like, OK, you know, I like the family stuff. I just can't really connect to that part. But OK. And my mom, right before I went in to test in front of everybody. And so, you know, testing is the last... The last step on the line of auditioning where you're in a room with up to 35 people. You've got your studio and your network heads and I... I went in there, but right before I did, my mom said, you know, honey, I don't want to feel any pressure. You actually booked this movie in Australia and it was one with... With that it was called Joey and it was with kangaroos. And I was the lead of it. And I made a split decision as only, you know, a 10-year-old can do and pretended to forget all my lines.
Kaili Vernoff [00:10:13] Wow.
Alex McKenna [00:10:15] So that because when you test something, as you know, you already have signed the contract, so they choose you, you're in, you're locked in. And I had this just realization that I would be happier going to Australia to be in a movie playing with joeys, with kangaroos, than I would be signing a seven-year contract working on a show.
Kaili Vernoff [00:10:40] Alex, I love this story. Did you... Did you do that film? Did you go work with kangaroos?
Alex McKenna [00:10:46] I did.
Kaili Vernoff [00:10:47] Oh, my God. I love that.
Kaili Vernoff [00:10:50] I love that. At ten, you just had your sort of choice. And you know those network tests. I think people it's hard for people to understand. But even as an adult, when I go for them, they are really intimidating. They've changed a little, like with all the streaming service, they've changed a little, but like in the 90s, they were all... Everyone was in a suit. Most of these people are money people. They're not creatives. And it's just a very bizarre way to to make those final decisions about who you're going to work with in a creative way for seven years, don't you think?
Alex McKenna [00:11:22] Absolutely. Absolutely. And so much goes into it. There's so much out of our control. So I think the pressure is I mean, in some ways that alleviates the pressure and other ways it totally packs it on because all you can control is how you're reacting in that moment. And yet so much is riding on it and you're being judged in the strangest of ways. You know, I remember not getting something because they said I was too all-American. Then I had another test. They said I wasn't all-American enough. And, you know, these things are so arbitrary. And yet they they truly do change the course of your career.
Kaili Vernoff [00:11:59] Yeah, it's impossible not to internalize those things. You know, it really is. And I really hope that the industry will will stop doing that kind of stuff, especially to especially to young people. You know, "here's the thing about you." I have this theory about it, which is that a lot of times agents or managers, they know how badly you want a job if you do, in fact, really want the job. And they don't have an answer for why you didn't get it. And the reason you didn't get it is just that they picked someone else. You're obviously good enough to get it because you know, you're there, you're in the final room. But it's almost like they're looking for something to tell you because they want to have they want to have information for you when you want it.
Alex McKenna [00:12:42] Totally.
Kaili Vernoff [00:12:43] And and sometimes, yeah, that stuff can be damaging because you'll carry it into the next thing you'll think, oh, I should be less all-American or you know, I should I should. I remember hearing in my twenties that my voice was too deep for a young person. And so I remember trying to, like, pitch my voice up.
Alex McKenna [00:13:01] Oh, yeah, I got that too.
Kaili Vernoff [00:13:03] I bet you did.
Alex McKenna [00:13:05] Yeah. I mean, any of my first reviews are always like the froggy voice actress. Sounds like she's been smoking cigarettes and drinking whiskey since the womb. I was like nine.
Kaili Vernoff [00:13:20] Oh my God. A little side note too. But isn't it amazing how if you can hang on to what makes you different, they are inevitably what set you apart eventually. Like that voice of yours has has kept you in good stead.
Alex McKenna [00:13:35] Yes, absolutely. When when you're young, I think it's hard to be other. And then, as you just said, that other makes you so special as time goes on. And you are OK with individuating from the crowd for sure.
Kaili Vernoff [00:13:51] And it seems like your experience of pretending to forget all of your lines in front of Spelling and crew did not mess you up. Because didn't you end up on 90210 also?
Alex McKenna [00:14:03] Yes. Yes. Much later on. On 90210 I did a recurring, which was so much fun and in true actor fashion, they said, do you play an instrument? I said, yeah, I played the guitar. So not lying because I had... I had taken, I had taken lessons, but like, did I actually play? Could I really do a song? Mmmm not so much. So that was really fun to cram. And for the way my voice sounds, I am not a singer. So getting over that mental block of needing to sing a little bit for the band I was in on 90210 was a special, special moment.
Kaili Vernoff [00:14:50] I'm like taking a mental note to go Google that. I have to hear it now. And it seems like you worked constantly, like even into being a teenager. I saw that you worked on Crossing Jordan quite a bit with my old friend, Jill Hennessy.
Alex McKenna [00:15:05] Oh, I love Jill. She was so kind to me. She and Miguel Ferrer made... I mean, and Kathryn Hahn. That set was was a pleasure for me to be on. They were so wonderful and they were so supportive when I told them after the first season because I played Miguel Ferrer's daughter, who's a series regular that I wanted to go to college and that I'd be leaving. And I mean, Kathryn Hahn wrote me a letter of recommendation to one of the colleges I was applying to, and Miguel could not have been kinder, more supportive, more encouraging to just follow whatever my interests were. It was really wonderful and I loved acting, but it's a funny thing that when you've been doing it your whole life, you don't... I was trying to balance that with the idea... And especially at 17, you're like, is this just who I am? Is this all of who I am? Or are there other things that I'm interested in? And so I left the show and studied other things at college. I think the college I went to thought I was going to be a theater major and were surprised when I was not.
Kaili Vernoff [00:16:18] What did you major in?
Alex McKenna [00:16:20] I majored in English, minored in sociology and concentrated in neuroscience. But for the first two years I was in neuroscience major. That's like where I was headed.
Kaili Vernoff [00:16:30] That is so amazing. Have you an Noshir talked about this? Noshir -- Charles Smith -- also studied neuroscience in college.
Alex McKenna [00:16:41] Really? I'm not sure if he and I have ever put that together. Wow.
Kaili Vernoff [00:16:45] Mm hmm. I'm just I'm just putting that out there. You guys should have a little like like genius person chit chat.
Alex McKenna [00:16:54] I would love it. I love Noshir, man. That guy's the best.
Kaili Vernoff [00:16:59] I know he is the best. OK, so I interrupted you. So you're in college and you're studying neuroscience?
Alex McKenna [00:17:06] Yeah, I. I mean, I went away to an absolutely idyllic college in the Midwest called Kenyon College. Most pastoral, beautiful buildings. I mean, they're Gothic-inspired. They're just...it's such a gorgeous campus. And it couldn't have been more of a 180 from the other school that I was considering, NYU. But I felt that I had, you know, been to New York a lot. And I knew what that was going to be like and I wanted to take myself out of my comfort zone. And my my dad had said the smartest lawyers he ever met went to Kenyon College as an undergrad. And this is coming from a guy who went to UCLA and then Harvard. And I remember thinking, OK, Dad, like bullsh...I call bull. You just want me to go to a school in the middle of nowhere, Ohio. I see what you're doing here. But he was really, really adamant that we go and we do a school visit and I have an overnight there and I fell in love immediately.
Kaili Vernoff [00:18:09] Mmm, your dad knew you.
Alex McKenna [00:18:11] Yeah, yeah, he did, and I also think he he wanted to retire there and like, coach the basketball team and maybe teach law at some point. It's such a beautiful campus and the energy there is so special. Everybody there really it, at least in my experience, felt like they wanted to be there and it just couldn't have been a more a more wonderful environment to get wrapped up in books and learning. And I for a very short time, was on the equestrian team, which was really fun.
Kaili Vernoff [00:18:46] Oh, my God, that is idyllic. That is just. Oh, that sounds like heaven.
Alex McKenna [00:18:51] It was. It was it was a nice change of pace. And then my senior year, my... The producers are Crossing Jordan asked me to come back and so I got to do another season on that.
Kaili Vernoff [00:19:02] That is beautiful. They waited for you. Smart people.
Alex McKenna [00:19:07] It was very... It was a s a huge compliment that they wrote me back in. And then I was flying back and forth from Ohio to Los Angeles during my finals. And I remember thinking nothing could be more stressful than this. Little does one know at 21 that yes, yes, much can be.
Kaili Vernoff [00:19:27] It can get much, much more stressful. But that would be a lot to be flying back and forth. And if they... So if they had not invited you back, did you... Like was there any part of you that wanted to quit and to set your sights on something else? Or was that time in college enough for you to to come back as an adult and say, this is what I want to do?
Alex McKenna [00:19:50] It definitely reignited the acting bug. I when I got to college, I was thinking, you know, the first year I mean, I was just so enthralled with neuroscience and psychology and everything about the mind, which now makes sense. Like when I when I look back, I didn't know I was doing it. But, you know, science where mind works, that's basically what we all use for anything we do. And then sociology and how we... How we exist within the world and the way that that influences us. And then English being the way to tell stories and how to communicate the... Whatever it is we're going through. And I think I was more dead set on wanting to be a director until the acting, until the acting came back in and you know, once you're a performer, you're always a performer. And so being on set again made me fall absolutely back in love. And I just allowed whatever was happening to me... I mean, again, as an actor, for better or for worse, it's a... It's a huge game of kind of getting permission and getting chosen... Unless you're making your own stuff, which I think we're all trying to do now. But even, you know, even 10, 15, 20 years ago, that was a little bit different where it wasn't... You know, we didn't have iPhones that had incredible cameras on them, and and making something to put yourself in seemed a bit more of a reach than it does now because of what's happened with, you know, web series. And that was turning into real series... And there wasn't a precedent for that, so I think coming back into it and having acting choose me again put me back in that lane, and then I, I realized that I didn't have formal training, and so I took the money that I had saved up, and I just went to work taking every class I could, working with the most incredible teachers, going to New York, seeing as much theater as I could, reading plays. I mean, I didn't know who Anton Chekhov was. And I remember feeling so... For somebody who loved to be educated and loved to study and love to read, I felt very ignorant in the world of acting, which is ironic because I've been doing it since I was little. But practice and education within that realm... you know, when I heard, "oh, that's your craft," I thought "oh! macaroni and cheese." Truly, I mean, all throughout college. And I think that was my way of not making me seem different than everyone else, because there were kids at college... who had seen me on a TV show. And I remember somebody finding my headshot online. And, you know, kids can be unkind. And my mother was very, very good about saying, "you know, it's really how you treat a situation. You can let that hurt you or you can ask them why they're being so weird that they stalked you online, you know, like throw it back on them. Like, don't let it hurt you. Let it bounce off."
Kaili Vernoff [00:23:04] Yeah.
Alex McKenna [00:23:05] So I was really good at deflecting my experience as an actor so that I didn't seem different than everybody else. And then needing to integrate that back into myself once I had graduated college was its own process.
Kaili Vernoff [00:23:22] I think that your intuition really took great care of you there. I always... When I speak to young actors, I always say you have to dig in and learn the craft. And the reason is it is the only thing you have control over. You can't control how tall you are. You can't control you know, you can't control, you know, how people see you, but you can control your approach and you can control what you bring to the project. How, how, how you see yourself as an artist.
Alex McKenna [00:23:59] Absolutely. Absolutely. And from a technical standpoint, you know, it's so interesting that, yes, actors, we're playing people and we do that every day, right? So, you know, what do you need to practice, quote unquote? But the reality is all of us have our own emotional experiences. That's going to create technical blocks, you know, so and like anything, I wouldn't say that I was an amazing basketball player if I wasn't practicing, doing drills, shooting hoops all of the time, doing strength training. You know, so much goes into being an athlete. Why an actor wouldn't prepare to be an actor like an athlete is beyond me because you go and you see theater. And that is I mean, especially and I didn't actually have an appreciation for musical theater until much later in my life. But those people are triathletes. I can't believe it. Just just even if it's not your genre, the sheer enormity of what they're able to do with their bodies, with their voices acting at the same time, I mean, crying and singing. Come on. Wow, that's amazing. And that is definitely a muscle you have to strengthen, you know?
Kaili Vernoff [00:25:11] You are so right. Yeah. That is so well said.
Alex McKenna [00:25:17] I really didn't. I think I had a block for a long time because I don't sing. And so I think I didn't realize that I was jealous of those who could. And it wasn't until I saw, you know, somebody dragged me to go see a musical. And I think I cried the entire time. I thought it was so amazing. I was so blown away just by how talented these people were in so many different fields.
Kaili Vernoff [00:25:44] Is it weird that I don't believe you that you can't sing?
Alex McKenna [00:25:50] Listen, you know, you get a few drinks in me and we'll karaoke some Bill Withers or some Courtney Love like that... I can handle that range.
Kaili Vernoff [00:25:59] That is a date.
Alex McKenna [00:26:01] Oh, good. Oh yes.
Kaili Vernoff [00:26:02] We will do that when the world lets us.
Alex McKenna [00:26:05] We'll never take things like that for granted again, huh. We'll go to Sing Sing in the Lower East Side.
Kaili Vernoff [00:26:12] Oh my God. I love that place.
Alex McKenna [00:26:14] or East Village rather, pardon me.
Kaili Vernoff [00:26:15] Ah I remember going. Well that's that's a story for another time. OK, so other than... That that's a private story... OK, other than coming to New York for theater, eventually you moved here.
Alex McKenna [00:26:31] I did.
Kaili Vernoff [00:26:32] And you. So, so tell me so walk me through that. How... How did you journey here?
Alex McKenna [00:26:38] Well, I had always thought... I mean, I thought at first I was going to go to NYU Film School and I was going to go for directing. And I decided Kenyon was going to be a more other immersive experience for what I wanted leaving a job. So then afterwards I thought, cool, I'm going to move to New York. And I, of course, had a boyfriend at the time and he wanted to be an actor. And so he was in L.A. So I moved to L.A. My parents were there. So, you know, it wasn't crazy. It just seemed easier to do that. And I kept thinking I would move to New York. And then I was getting little jobs here and there. But I... You know, moving to New York would have been such a huge, huge thing. And I think at 21, I wasn't fully prepared yet because, you know, and I got to, I got to visit often. So I took my schooling really, really...wow I was very, very serious. I... You know, I found a way to stage manage for an acting class that allowed me to go to New York for, you know, a month and a half to help prep, to be moving the furniture, and that way I got... It was like a work-study program. I got class for free and I got to watch all these incredible actors. And you learn so much from watching. And I got to participate. And it was fantastic. So it kind of quenched my thirst.
Kaili Vernoff [00:28:01] Yeah, that's a good hustle, Alex. Yeah, that is like a real actor hustle.
Alex McKenna [00:28:06] Oh, yeah. I worked in a bar for five and a half years. I was a bartender. I definitely... I definitely hustled. I, I got the full experience of being an actor where you have your side job, and then I was an assistant for a minute, so I had another side job. And you're exhausted and then you're learning your lines while you're taking your breaks. I mean, had, you know, truly in my twenties, I. I did it. I did it. Right. And then at. I guess it was 27, my dad had gotten ill and he had just passed away and I went through a breakup and I had one of those moments where it struck me, if not now, then when? And at 27, I thought, OK, this is it, I'm leaving, I'm just I'm going to leave. I know enough people in New York. So many of my friends were living there and I was like, I can I can do it. I have an agent. I... they said they would have no problem taking me there as well. I can do this. I'm moving to New York and my mom was super supportive. And I found a place and I thought, OK, I'm going to give myself, you know, at least a year to see how this feels. And I packed up and I left.
Kaili Vernoff [00:29:24] I love it.
Alex McKenna [00:29:25] And it was everything.
Kaili Vernoff [00:29:26] It is everything.
Alex McKenna [00:29:29] I am grateful though that I did it later in life because, you know, by later I mean twenty-seven rather than 19, because I do think the city can be... Even for somebody, for somebody who's been from Los Angeles, another very, very big city that can eat people up, New York has such a different energy and things are so accessible. You don't have to get in your car, you don't have to, you know, so so the wild world of nightlife... And and I was fortunate enough that I didn't have to work in a bar when I moved there. And I'm so grateful for that because 2 a.m. Is different than five a.m. and that was still the time where bars were open till 4:30/5.
Kaili Vernoff [00:30:16] Yeah, I bartended those shifts. I bartended those shifts. I had... I had one small period of my life where I… it was so weird because I was actually on a soap opera, but I was still afraid to give up my my bartending job. So I was just I packed them all into the weekends and I had this one job that I would work until 5:00 a.m. I would go home, take a shower, sleep a couple hours, jump on my bicycle, go through the park to the west side and open up this other bar for brunch at noon, work there till nine, and then back to the east side, to the other bar and close it. How did we survive those shifts?
Alex McKenna [00:30:50] I have no idea. Well, that cash is really lucrative.
Kaili Vernoff [00:30:54] Yeah, it was real lucrative.
Alex McKenna [00:30:56] Yeah, it's very enticing. But I mean truly I have never been a napper. Sleep and I have have a long sordid history. And I remember in New York the first time being like, I have to lie down. And it was the middle of the day. I think I'm gonna die if I don't sleep for a couple hours. And you just I mean, you're your will...sheer will, I think, is how we survived that time.
Kaili Vernoff [00:31:24] Yeah, well, New York is different from L.A. It's very different in like... I think I mentioned when we first hopped on the phone that my husband and I went actual in person shopping the other day.
Alex McKenna [00:31:34] Yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [00:31:34] I am so out of practice of like up and down subway stations, carrying heavy packages, just all of the walking. And, you know, that is a real part of New York City living is... and it's exhausting if you're not used to it.
Alex McKenna [00:31:50] Oh, wow. Absolutely. And frankly, being around so many people. Like that's something I've noticed during this pandemic that even taking my daily walks so that I get out of my house, I get anxiety when I'm around too many people. And that is exhausting in itself because, you know, I'm an outgoing person, you're an outgoing person, like we're used to being, like you said, stuck in subways and you're touching people and you're just like, oh, a person smells like that. All right. Well, hey it's New York! Or, you know, Los Angeles...
Kaili Vernoff [00:32:21] Someone peed on that seat.
Alex McKenna [00:32:22] Yeah, exactly. And it's just part of it's just part of what you're used to, and all of a sudden that everything is dangerous. I mean, truly leaving my house to run errands, even here in Los Angeles, like they keep saying going to the gas station is more it's more of a hot spot than than going on a plane, which I haven't since February. And this is the longest amount of time. I haven't been to New York and I haven't been on a plane. It's just... I come home mentally exhausted from doing what a year ago would have been absolutely nothing.
Kaili Vernoff [00:32:58] Yeah, and I think you're right, seeing other people as like a threat as opposed to I'm not such a people watcher, but when you're seeing everyone, like how close are they? Why is their mask below their nose?
Alex McKenna [00:33:10] Oh yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [00:33:10] Like it's really...I can't wait to get home.
Alex McKenna [00:33:12] I know, same. Same, It's so wild.
Kaili Vernoff [00:33:16] OK, so back to you. So you make your way here. You you you make the move. And at some point, because I think you and I actually were... I don't know if we still are, but we work with the same agent in New York who cast us in Red Dead. And I think we were both with Mickey Shera for that.
Alex McKenna [00:33:33] Yes. Oh, yes. Absolutely.
Kaili Vernoff [00:33:36] Yes. I remember he'd be like, I'm not allowed to say anything, but I have another client on that. And eventually I put together that it was you so...
Alex McKenna [00:33:45] Adore him.
Kaili Vernoff [00:33:45] I love him, right?
Alex McKenna [00:33:47] Yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [00:33:47] He's just such a gem. He's such an old school gem. OK, so tell me about your Red Dead audition process.
Alex McKenna [00:33:58] OK, well, I got a call that I had an audition that I'd be given the sides there, which, as you know, is is not typical protocol. You know, normally you get the sides, you have a little bit of time to prepare. And I thought, OK, great. And it was from Mickey, and Mickey, in my experience, had been my voiceover agent that also would send me on commercials sometimes. And so I thought... I mean, I truly didn't know what this was for. I definitely didn't know it was a video game. So I got there and I mean, I assumed it was like an Apple something where it was top secret. And then you'd sign your NDA and you'd get this piece of something and then you'd learn it and OK, great, end of story. So I got there. I got this whole... It was one page. It was one full page, if I if I remember correctly. And it was it was a monologue. And I remember thinking, OK, well, I'll do the best we can with this. I mean, I'm obviously not going to memorize it in the ten minutes that I'm going to be sitting here. But, great. This will be fun. They said, can you do a Southern accent? And I was like, oh I can do a Southern accent. What kind of southern? And they said, Huh? And I said, well, like, do you want Texas or do you want like like Mississippi? You know. They're like...uh hum. Just whatever you want to do, just do a Southern accent. I was like, alright, great. So I grabbed it and I went in and it was a full room and there was a camera. And I was like, well, OK, this is. OK, great, they said, do whatever you want, you can just, like, walk around, you can walk with it. Just just. Let's see what you do. And strangely, rather than feel overwhelmed, I was like, well, this is fun, you know, again, how much pressure can I put on myself? I haven't had time to prepare. I can just have fun with this. Cool. And I did it. And I you know, in reading it, I thought, how many levels can I bring to this one speech? So it's not all one note. Cool, cool, cool. And I did it and I thought, all right, great, thanks. Have a good day. Bye! And I, I left. Then I got a callback and I thought, OK, cool, I have no idea what this is for. I really didn't. It was a very strange commercial audition. It definitely didn't feel like a voiceover. So I went back, did it again, had even more fun with it. I don't remember if I even got a note for it, I thought, all right, great. You know, it's good. It's really good to have a callback. Typically when I'm getting callbacks regularly, that means I end up getting more auditions like winning, cool. I get the call that I need to arrive at Rockstar headquarters and I'm like, wait, Rockstar, Rockstar, like who...who did Grand Theft Auto and my, you know, college nerd self who used to play those games came back and I was like, oh yes, I'm working for Rockstar! That is so cool! Oh my goodness. Like really, like fully was just so elated. Again, I still had no idea what I was working for, didn't know what I was doing. I just was so stoked that I got to have said I... First of all to see what the Rockstar headquarters even looked like was so cool and I got...I was so excited. I remember being in such a good mood and then got there and we did the scans and we did the things. And I thought that that was the job.
Kaili Vernoff [00:37:20] Hey, how hard is it to keep your eyes open for that face scan?
Alex McKenna [00:37:23] So hard.
Kaili Vernoff [00:37:24] Is it just me?
Alex McKenna [00:37:25] No.
Kaili Vernoff [00:37:26] With all those lights? It was so hard. I was like crying. And they were like, can you not cry? Like, I'm sorry, I can't keep my eyes open.
Alex McKenna [00:37:35] My actually eyes and mouth might have been totally dry because of my excitement. I think it was just... I mean, just like an elated little kid just looking around. And of course, they're so top secret. You got to, you know, come into the lobby and then you go into one room and no one talks to you and you're like, OK, all right. This is I mean, which also feels so cool.
Kaili Vernoff [00:37:55] Yeah. You have to get escorted to the bathroom.
Alex McKenna [00:37:58] Yeah. Even still every time I'm there.
Kaili Vernoff [00:38:01] Every time. What am I going to steal?
Alex McKenna [00:38:07] I know, right. I'm like, this is about me, right? Like you're worried about me? Of course, I'd be like, so can you just detour into the snack room because I'm hungry? There are always really good snacks in there.
Kaili Vernoff [00:38:19] Such good snacks. It's such a good snack room.
Alex McKenna [00:38:23] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so that's that's how that happened, but it took me it took me a really long time, like embarrassingly long to realize that I was a real character, that I had an actual story arc, and that we were working on Red Dead Redemption 2. I had no clue.
Kaili Vernoff [00:38:45] OK, so I'm just going to say: I'm going to... Even though you say it was an embarrassingly long time, I'm going to guess that you figured it out before me. But but maybe not. But, yeah, it took me I think years.
Alex McKenna [00:38:59] Same.
Kaili Vernoff [00:39:00] Really? OK, I feel so much better.
Alex McKenna [00:39:01] It really did, because I remember I had my first day on site and I was like, this is crazy when you're learning to T-pose, and everything that goes into working in a motion capture forum and you have the camera right in your face and it's, you know, the lights are blinding and you're wearing a helmet and it's all it's all you know, you have to take off your rings and, you know, just this like there's so much going on before you're used to it. And then I had one day, and then I didn't get a call for six months, and then I came back. So in my mind, there was no way that I was a real character because six months had gone by.
Kaili Vernoff [00:39:38] Same. Yeah, same six months, I think it was five or six months in between day one and day two, so I just thought I had done a day and yeah, I had stopped thinking, although... Although I don't know if you had this experience, but every now and then in those six months, Mickey would call and and like check my availability for a three week block, but then they'd never book me.
Alex McKenna [00:40:03] Yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [00:40:03] So I think I had a little hope in my head that I was going back, but the other thing that people don't really realize, although I've talked about this some, is that you don't get any back story and you don't know where your character will end up. So you cannot prepare in those ways that you and I have already talked about preparing.
Alex McKenna [00:40:22] Absolutely. Normally, you know, I mean, I'm sure many of the listeners know this, but normally you get a full script, so you get to prepare and and decide exactly how you're going to build your stor, and you get to make character choices and speech patterns can change, and how do I you know, I'm very, very lucky, thanks to the incredible direction, because, you know, Rod Edge knew at least more than we knew. So that when you were doing the scenes, you know, my my character starts off, and half the people that I know that play the game don't even realize that that's Sadie in the beginning, once they get to the end. It's sort of like, oh, you are the one who is, you know, screaming for help and being attacked in your home. So, you know, she she starts off like the worst situation you can find yourself. You're the love of her life's been murdered and you've been violated. And, you know, now somebody's in your home trying to, I guess, help you. But how do you even know that? And then, you know, she goes into this depression, they bring her to camp, and then by the end, she's... She's who she is. But I had no idea. I mean, truly, none of that, none of that was presented to me. It was just here's a scene and have fun and then here's a scene and have fun. And there is no linear way for me to put together who this human was that I was portraying for five years.
Kaili Vernoff [00:41:52] Isn't that wild? You know, everything that you learn about your character, you learn in the scene.
Alex McKenna [00:42:01] Or if you take the other peoples' scenes and you read them.
Kaili Vernoff [00:42:05] Yeah. If you help someone learn their lines in the green room.
Alex McKenna [00:42:09] Exactly.
Kaili Vernoff [00:42:13] OK, so I know a little bit about this, but I've never heard the whole story from you. So there was some time in those five years, almost five years of shooting that you did relocate back to Los Angeles.
Alex McKenna [00:42:27] I did.
Kaili Vernoff [00:42:28] And yeah, and I don't know if fans understand this, but because we shoot so many hours -- like, I think there's 100 hours of gameplay in Red Dead -- if we have other jobs or things that we become unavailable for some reason they can work around us. You know, they can put those scenes off and there are things that they can do. And I remember that I hadn't seen you in a while, and I remember hearing that you'd had all these massive life events. I'd heard that that you'd got married, and that you'd gone to a honeymoon. And I heard devastating news that you had lost your mom.
Alex McKenna [00:43:02] Yes.
Kaili Vernoff [00:43:03] And I remember there being like a question mark. It was like an open question mark about when you'd be able to to come back east. And how everyone was, you know, thinking about you and we couldn't wait to have you back. But we were also, you know, unable to reach out to you because we weren't even literally allowed to be in touch with each other. And so I don't know... Can you tell me that must have just been a remarkable time in your life in every way. And I'd love to hear your experience of it.
Alex McKenna [00:43:32] I can say the first thing that that strikes me when I think about that time is that when my mother did pass, Rockstar sent me the most beautiful -- it's still by far and away leaps and bounds -- the most beautiful bouquet of flowers, just the most incredible thing, and said, oh, wow, I'm getting emotional already. It said, you know, Alex, we're so sorry for your loss. We're here. Whatever you can come back, love your Rockstar family. And it was so bright and beautiful and colorful. And, you know, often when somebody passes, you get a lot of white flowers. I guess that's just, you know, what people send. But it felt like everybody there knew me because I'm a very colorful, playful person. And to have this insane bouquet of the most beautiful, colorful flowers, I felt very loved and seen by everybody there. And it was it was so comforting that... You know, it's it's so hard to say, I'm sorry, I can't make it right now because I was just under the weight of everything you have to deal with when somebody passes, not even not even withstanding the grief, but there is so much to figure out to fix, to organize, to plan. I mean, it's it's truly a next level thing. And when my father had passed, I was my mom's support, but my mother was taking the reins on everything. And so when she passed, it was all on me, and it was very overwhelming. And as timing would have it just a few months later was when our wedding was planned. And so it went, you know, huge life event, huge life event, and yeah, we had moved back to Los Angeles earlier that year because of the way things were surely heading with my mother's health and knowing that as her only daughter, I would have a lot to do. And doing it remotely was not an option. So.
Kaili Vernoff [00:45:47] I mean, that, you know, that kind of a loss will yeah, it will grow you up quick.
Alex McKenna [00:45:53] Oh, man, I'm actually 7000 years old. I don't know if you know that. I'm finally fitting in with my.
Kaili Vernoff [00:46:01] Your voice, your voice finally matches your experience level.
Alex McKenna [00:46:05] my my internal landscape. Yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [00:46:08] Well, I. I just want to say that, you know, we've gotten to play the game during quarantine more and more. And your work as Sadie is fucking breathtaking.
Alex McKenna [00:46:18] Oh thank you. Thank you. She's my favorite character to date. I mean, truly, that I'm so every time I think about her, I just I'm truly honored that I got to bring this woman, this incredible, strong human to life. Very fortunate.
Kaili Vernoff [00:46:41] Yeah. And and we're fortunate. And the audience is fortunate because it feels to me like all of that life experience that you were going through. I mean. I mean, right? Look at Sadie. She she she is becoming untethered when we meet her. Right. She's like you mentioned, she's been violated. She's she's lost her sense of security in the world. Her home is not safe. Her husband is gone. And she retreats into herself, but then, you know, along the way, she finds some sort of a home with the ragtag Van der Linde gang. And then, you know, we watch Sadie settle in and and find her own focus and her own drive. And she very much realizes that she's in charge of her journey and ultimately her own happiness is... That's how I that's that's how I feel her journey open. And I think that. You know, that that it feels to me, knowing you as I do, that all of your life experience, that that Sadie got the benefit of all of that lived experience over the course of those years.
Alex McKenna [00:47:51] Mmm. Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. I think when you're in it, you know, everything is...you're being so, so present that it's hard to see the parallels and that sort of propinquity where where things are, you know, coming together as they should, because, you know, I mean, also like what a what a gift on certain days to come in and to be just, you know, stabbing people, you know, really tapping into that rage of
Kaili Vernoff [00:48:18] Oh, yes.
Alex McKenna [00:48:19] You know, fighting. And I think, you know, I'm a typically very positive person. But when you're going through hard times, there is definitely a part of you that's that's angry about it. And to have a constructive, creative, safe place to funnel that energy that that you know, what... truly what a gift.
Kaili Vernoff [00:48:41] Yeah, I can tell you for me, like, you know, a woman in my, you know, in my 40s doesn't... I don't get a lot of roles where I get to, like, stab people in the throat and carry around a shotgun. You know?
Alex McKenna [00:48:55] Uh huh. So ture. I used to joke because half my friends thought I had joined the CIA because I would come home with bruises. I was like hurting. I wouldn't be able to tell anybody what I was doing, where I was, my phone would be off for, whole days, you know.
Kaili Vernoff [00:49:10] Yeah.
Alex McKenna [00:49:11] And I remember laughing, probably only with us on set. But, you know, I'm not used to to holding a sawed-off shotgun around for 12 hours and I'm not used to, you know, stabbing anybody. And so those muscles are really specific. And I would get home and wouldn't be able to move my arm or, you know, wouldn't be able to sit up straight because these tiny, tiny muscles in my back that have never been used in that way before, let alone repeatedly all day, were just in spasm, you know, welcome to your thirties...
Kaili Vernoff [00:49:48] Listen, I'm a New Yorker. I do not mount a horse very often in my regular day. I would come home and I would not... Like I can't walk.
Alex McKenna [00:49:58] Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So funny. And you know what, ladies and gentlemen, we did it in heels.
Kaili Vernoff [00:50:04] We did it in heels. And those those like horse structures, they were giant. I don't know what kind of horses those are, but those were giant. And it was like... It was no small feat.
Alex McKenna [00:50:17] Yeah. They were some big thoroughbreds.
Kaili Vernoff [00:50:18] There were some big thoroughbreds. They were huge. And now that we've played some, I see how you can upgrade to these, like, giant horses. I'm like, well, that's what Susan was running. I'm sure of it.
Alex McKenna [00:50:29] Absolutely. Absolutely. The horses are so gorgeous in that game. I mean, I've been riding horses since I was young, and I used to train them for the girls who did the show jumping. I was never interested in the show jumping, though. I loved to watch it. But I mean, the way that they I really I get it. The crying for the horses, I feel so connected to them. The times that my horses have died, I'm devastated.
Kaili Vernoff [00:50:55] Oh, Alex, I don't know if if I told you this, but my daughter's horse got hit by a train.
Alex McKenna [00:51:00] No!
Kaili Vernoff [00:51:01] And I was like calling... Oh yeah. Yeah. Like, right when the game came out and I was like calling Tony, I was like calling Michelle. I was like, how do I get my daughter's horse back? I will do anything. I will do anything. And there was nothing that anyone could do. They were like, did you save? And I was like, What do you mean? I'd never played video games. I didn't know. It was terrible.
Alex McKenna [00:51:22] Did you save?!
Kaili Vernoff [00:51:25] She was twelve, like her horse ot hit by a train and it was oh, so bad. It was terrible.
Alex McKenna [00:51:31] That is incredible.
Kaili Vernoff [00:51:33] Terrible. Oh I know, I know. You do get so attached. I mean you get so...it feels so real. I, I, I understand why the fans feel so connected to us because it really does feel like you're in that world with all those people when you're playing.
Alex McKenna [00:51:49] Truly and you spend so much time with us. And that's the genius of Rockstar. They create such a three-dimensional world and it is so gorgeous. It's as if you could walk into a movie and then be in the movie, you know, I mean, I feel that way.
Kaili Vernoff [00:52:04] I do, too.
Alex McKenna [00:52:05] And we played it and also to have worked on it for that long and to not have seen so much of the camp because my character was not there as much as as all of the other, all of the other gang. It blew my mind the work that everyone did. And the details and the character, the funny, the funny character traits that come out, I mean, I love Grimshaw. I love... I loved everything you did with her. She's the backbone of that gang.
Kaili Vernoff [00:52:38] Oh, thank you. I know. I love her so much. I love her so much. And and I... I agree with you. Like getting to come in as Arthur and sit at the campfire and then just like, you know, hear Reverend Swanson, you know, tell some story or hear Pierson tell his stories of the Navy, all those things that I wasn't on set for. I just yeah, I'm like everyone's biggest fan. I'm like a stalker around camp.
Alex McKenna [00:53:07] Mm hmm. Yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [00:53:08] So did you do you have anything that stands out to you as a favorite day on set?
Alex McKenna [00:53:15] I... You know, I laughed a lot and then I cried a lot on that set and then cried because in the scene I was supposed to be emotional, but I for some reason always go immediately to the air balloon scene. And just laughing so hard with the air balloon seen after being called a pretty little flower... Shoot, now that now the exact words are escaping me, but that, you know, women can't because they're such... They're delicate little flowers or something and just.
Kaili Vernoff [00:53:51] Yes
Alex McKenna [00:53:51] Having so much fun with that. I mean, truly, there is stuff in the epilogue. I remember with John, we would... We had this day where we were just both on fire. Every time we did, it was one take, we were one-take wonders. And so we started this One-take Happy Dance, and we spent the entire day basically just happy dancing because we were crushing it. We were we felt so good about our work.
Kaili Vernoff [00:54:16] Isn't Rob awesome?
Alex McKenna [00:54:18] Rob is the best. Rob is just... I mean, truly, everybody's the best. Like, I just, you know, getting to do scenes with with Benn, getting to do scenes with Roger, like, I mean. Man, what just brilliant actors. We're so fortunate.
Kaili Vernoff [00:54:36] I know, and also it feels... It's so hard now that we're all locked down because we're sort of like had just really gotten to have the experience of getting out on the road and meeting fans and and, you know, like and those experiences where we really got to, like, travel together and talk about our experience together. And I really, really hope that when the world opens up, we get to to do more of that. I would love to to travel with you a little bit.
Alex McKenna [00:55:08] Me too. Me too. Get all the ladies together and do one? That would be incredible.
Kaili Vernoff [00:55:14] Oh my God. Yeah, that's... That's got to happen. That has to happen.
Alex McKenna [00:55:19] Yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [00:55:20] Um okay. So I, I'm going to take a little pivot here because I have to talk to you because I feel a little bit like again, like a stalker of this friendship, this remarkable lifelong friendship between you and the author, Stephanie Danler.
Alex McKenna [00:55:36] Yes.
Kaili Vernoff [00:55:37] So I loved Sweetbitter when it came out. I remember I needed a new book and I read like a New York Times review and I bought it. And interestingly, my producer for this show, I gave it to her as soon as I finished it and she loved it. And then I found out that not only were you best friends, but that you did the audiobook.
Alex McKenna [00:55:55] Yes.
Kaili Vernoff [00:55:56] And so then she wrote a memoir that was released this year called Stray. And I had preordered it. And and, of course, I was just knocked sideways when I read stories about you and about your wedding and your mom, but told from someone else's perspective.
Alex McKenna [00:56:17] Mmm hmm.
Kaili Vernoff [00:56:17] It was like I was getting to know... I was getting to know you through the eyes of your best friend, which was so just remarkable and moving. And then you did that audiobook as well, which I was listening to yesterday. And you're so... Oh Gosh, I could just listen to you forever.
Alex McKenna [00:56:34] Oh thank you.
Kaili Vernoff [00:56:34] You know, but it's just... It's so true. And you're just so precise with your phrasing. You're just brilliant at it. But but what I want to hear is because it's such a... It must be such a bizarre, like meta process, reliving those chapters of your life through someone else's narrative. And I'd love to hear your experience of it.
Alex McKenna [00:56:55] Yes. That... Well, doing Sweetbitter to begin with was wild. It was during a time when I was recording it. My mother wasn't well, she was in the hospital and I cared so much. I've never been more nervous to do an audio book because it was my best friend's debut novel. We had lived together in Brooklyn while she was writing it. She was going to grad school and working at Buvette, you know, truly, we call each other...we call each other wives because, you know, I would... We lived together in this Brooklyn apartment and I would make sure she had coffee in the morning and a croissant or a bagel so that she could write all day and then we would cook dinners together. I mean, we were fully in a domestic relationship. And so it really it was so amazing that I got to do that audio book. And, you know, apparently Penguin Random House had pitched me to her and she was like, yes, because she's... I mean, that's who I wanted. She's my best friend. And they didn't know that.
Kaili Vernoff [00:57:50] Oh, you're kidding.
Alex McKenna [00:57:51] Yeah, it was wild. And so I got to do that. And I remember being, you know, so nervous because there I know all of those... Not... Yes, it is fiction, but it's also based in real life. So, you know, if you knew Stephanie at that time, if you knew... There are characters that are maybe amalgamations of real people, but there... Some of that initial nugget is based on a real person. And I knew those people. And so to want to do that justice was was wild and to go in there and to be getting the accents right and the cadences and what I wanted to bring to it was very all-consuming during that time. And my head, it was really nice to be able to hyperfocus because my head was in so many different places. But Stray was a completely different beast because, as you said, I'm literally in the book and there are scenes that actually happened and to read them from her perspective, knowing that I'm in there and, you know, there's a there's a really... It's an emotional scene and it's when my mom is really unwell and... It's it was very meta, that is the best way to put it. Very, very meta. But I... I was, you know, so, so beyond honored to do it and then hoping to bring it to life from within it, you know, and still and still communicate, and convey how she was feeling and the story itself. And I mean, I'm so glad you enjoyed it.
Kaili Vernoff [00:59:38] Oh, my gosh. It's so good. It's so good. And and I think what a gift. Like what a gift that you guys keep getting to be intertwined in each other's lives in that way. And I mean, you're... you're literally telling each other's stories.
Alex McKenna [00:59:56] Mm hmm. Mm hmm. It's really beautiful. We met in college as freshmen. We were both these these two blond girls from California. She's from Long Beach. And I was from Los Angeles. And we yeah, we started like dating friends early on. And I remember seeing her and being like, I... This girl, like this girl is either going to be one of my closest friends or we're really going to hate each other. It's there's just... There isn't going to be some in between like you could. I think both of us could just feel the energy that either that this was going to be like a soul connection or we just should stay out of each other's way.
Kaili Vernoff [01:00:40] I know very much what you're talking about, that there's that whatever is between us, it is alive and it is intense. And it's either going to yeah, it's it's either going to magnet... Either the magnets are going to be towards each other or push away.
Alex McKenna [01:00:55] Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, she was my maid of honor at my wedding. And yeah, she's she's... I mean, she lives pretty close to me now, so we see each other all of the time. Her, you know, I'm obsessed with her children. I love her husband. Yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [01:01:16] Wow, I can't wait to just continue being a fan of your collaborations and and of your friendship, and now that I do get to follow you on social media, I love stalking you guys. So that's just me. That's just me here in New York in my apartment, bored, and, you know, looking like, "oh, look at them." OK, but you have been doing like... during quarantine, Alex, have you been doing a lot of audiobooks? I feel like... I feel like you're spending a lot of time in that studio.
Alex McKenna [01:01:48] I during quarantine. Yes. There was a period where I was doing audiobook after audiobook after audiobook after audiobook, which was amazing because, you know, as every actor/artist/human during this pandemic, we're all terrified because no work has been happening and no work means no money means no health insurance. And that is a really fun part of adulting. So to have any work was was hugely welcomed. But I will say that because of everything that was happening with...I live, I live close to downtown Los Angeles. And so with the protests and and everything is well, there were nonstop helicopters which make it very, very difficult to do voice recording in a tiny booth in my house. So that was difficult. It was really quite stressful. And also, you know, not being able to move. I'm normally a very active person, so being sedentary to prepare for a book and then to sit and read it without moving. And by the end of the day, because, you know, you're telling a story, you're being word perfect, you're actually exhausted by the end of it. I found that, you know, that... that little bit of depression that happens when you're not moving started to sink in. So I think by the sixth book... It was the sixth book, I was like I need... I need a time out. I need to just take a week or two and and not be sitting reading for a minute.
Kaili Vernoff [01:03:22] Yeah, that's that's actually why I was asking you, because I, I have not done a lot of audiobooks. I've only done a few, and they they are so exhausting that I would literally need... Like I'd finish like a book after like a day three, and then I would like literally need a week to just sleep. And I, and my voice was shot from like playing all the different characters. I'm... I'm so impressed that you did six in a row.
Alex McKenna [01:03:51] Yeah, it was it was wild, but I got to do some incredible books and that's the thing. I love what I do. I love to tell stories and I love to read. So being an avid reader and then getting to bring it to life is is such a dream. I did an incredible one by Eula Biss called Having and Being Had. I did an incredible one called Why I Don't Write -- sections of that one -- by Susan Minot. It was... I mean truly just great books. Everybody, pick up Stray by Stephanie Danler, pick up those two. I mean I did another memoir called Uprooted, which was really wonderful. It was about gardening, and I had to learn all of the Latin pronunciations of various plants and trees and shrubs. So that was its own thing because I you know, I took Latin in middle school, maybe? I did not remember any of it. It was very, very challenging to make that sound casual.
Kaili Vernoff [01:04:49] I did one that was like a scientific journal. And I think, I think I spent like two weeks on it. It was thousands of pages and it was comparing the brains of like blue whales and primates. And I mean, I spent more time at night looking up pronunciations of like parts of the brain and then trying to make it sound like I just talk like this.
Alex McKenna [01:05:12] Yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [01:05:12] I will definitely listen to more of your books. And I cannot wait until until we are allowed to do other work because I'm such a fan of yours and I have this dream. I remember... I remember Roger coming back from having seen you in Fool for Love and just singing your praises. He said you were just remarkable. And I have a dream that we will do a play together.
Alex McKenna [01:05:39] Oh, I would love that. Oh, man. Please, please. What a dream. Yes.
Kaili Vernoff [01:05:46] Wouldn't that be a dream? I just I, I have it in my head. Manifest it. OK, so as we're we're winding down here, I would love to give you an opportunity as we've talked so much about collaboration and how we all need each other. I would love to give you an opportunity to tell me about a time in your life or in your career at some point when someone recognized something special in you and just gave you an opportunity to shine.
Alex McKenna [01:06:15] That is such a great question. That is such a great question. I feel that the thing that's coming to me right now was when I was... I was living in New York and I was doing a lot of guest stars and I had this audition for an indie film. And I knew that they had... It was four leads, and I knew that they had one of them set. And I went in and just got to play, like the audition process was playful, the sides were playful. And it is this fun horror comedy romp. And I remember just feeling that I was a younger director, his name's Will Stribling, and the project was called Bear with us, and it is a very zany ride of a film. It's shot in black and white. And I loved my character who was just this free spirit. And it was the first time that I got to have a sort of, you know, fun chemistry test. Once you get down the line, you know, you have your callback and you typically there'll be another callback. And I felt that they were just embracing every part of what I was bringing. And when I got offered the role, it meant that we were going to the Poconos for a little over a month, I think it was, to film. And to get to play a lead against Christy Carlson Romano and Mark Jude Sullivan. It was... I had such a blast. I mean truly like I remember that opportunity feeling that this young director was giving me an opportunity to come play in this wild movie that he had such a vision for. It was such a great opportunity. And that and that film ended up going to some film festivals. And I had never been really to a film festival with film before. We got to go to the Whistler Film Festival and have interviews. And it was... It was just a blast. It was truly a blast. So that was a really, really great opportunity.
Kaili Vernoff [01:08:34] I love that story. I love that it was a young director with a vision and that everything that you were bringing, you know, he he saw his own vision opening up, right? That what you were contributing was making it more exciting for him. And then I love when you get to do something that is like a pull from the heart -- you're not going to make a million dollars off that.
Alex McKenna [01:08:58] Oh, yeah, exactly.
Kaili Vernoff [01:08:59] But then you get to go to Whistler and walk red carpets and like it has, you know, these things unfold in ways that when you that when you are driven by your artistic sensibility and your heart, the rewards are something other than what you might imagine.
Alex McKenna [01:09:14] Absolutely. Absolutely. And then and then it premiered or, you know, it was at the North Hollywood Film Festival. And it was the first time that I got to invite, like a group of my friends, like 25 of my friends to come see a movie I was in. You know, it was I've been doing this my whole life. I've never had that opportunity before. And to feel so like loved and supported and that your friends are celebrating a win and whether you know. No, it's not I'm in a Marvel film and now I'm financially set for the rest of my life. But it's... I did something that I loved and I was proud of my work. And we got to, you know, cheers and have a drink at the end. And it was a blast. So, yeah.
Kaili Vernoff [01:09:54] I'm going to go seek out that film. So all of your work and your links and everything will live in the show notes so that people can find these other projects. I had so much fun watching you in Stalked by my Husband's Ex, a.k.a. Another Mother on Amazon Prime, which people can see. You literally did not hit a false note in that entire film.
Alex McKenna [01:10:15] I appreciate that. Thank you. That was... That was really fun to get offered a lead in a film after it had been a very slow year. It's so funny. I mean, I it's not it's not just humility, but I always feel like I'm I'm being like slightly punk'd sometimes when they're like you have an offer and I'm like, what? Me? Are you sure? This Alex McKenna? And so that was it was ah so great. And again, I've been so blessed with the people I've gotten to work with. Everybody really cared about making that movie the best that it could be with the, you know, very tight budget that we had.
Kaili Vernoff [01:10:55] Well, it really showed. It showed how much you put into it. And you are just a master of the craft. And I am just really looking forward to the next time you and I get to walk the boards or fill the volume or do something together.
Alex McKenna [01:11:09] Oh, me too. Me too. The universe is listening.
Kaili Vernoff [01:11:15] Please, please. Alex. Thank you. I've loved getting to chat with you and I cannot wait to see you in person.
Alex McKenna [01:11:21] Me too. So soon. I pray so soon. Thank you so much for having me.
Kaili Vernoff [01:11:25] Yeah. Vaccine is coming.
Alex McKenna [01:11:28] Yes.
Kaili Vernoff [01:11:32] I adore that woman. Alex is currently working on a film called Doula and to podcast's Good Grief and In the Grey. You can find her social media links in the show notes to stay up to date on all her projects, including the audiobooks we discussed in the episode. For exclusive bonus material with Alex and our other fantastic Let's Play guests, check out the*gameHERs website. And that brings us to the end of Season Two of Let's Play. I can't believe how quickly these weeks have flown by. And I want to give an extra thank you this holiday season to all our listeners. We at the*gameHERs wish you a safe and healthy New Year to stay up to date on all the exciting things the gamers and Let's Play have coming in 2021, be sure to visit the gamers dotcom. That's t-h-e-g-a-m-e-h-e-r-s dot com, and follow the*gamehers on social media. Bye for now. Stay safe, wear a mask, and we'll see you next year.
Verta Maloney, the*gameHERs [01:12:35] Thanks for listening. Let's Play was brought to you by the*gameHERs, a community that connects all types of women gamers and welcomes every human who supports this. Let's Play was produced by Kaili Vernoff and co-produced by the*gameHERs team, Laura Deutsch, Rebecca Dixon, Verta Maloney, Heather Ouida and Alexis Wilcock with sound design done by Frank Verderosa. Please visit thegamehers.com to access exclusive bonus material and to learn more about the*gameHERs community. And we so appreciate if you subscribed and gave us a five-star review. Thanks again for listening.