Truly Inclusive Childcare

On Season 11, Episode 8 of The LowDOWN: A Down Syndrome Podcast, Eleni Bakolias gives us the lowdown on providing truly inclusive childcare.

Transcript

Thanks, Danielle. In today's episode, we'll explore what truly inclusive care looks like in the early years, how it benefits all children, and why inclusion starts with a mindset, how teachers and administrators are working to create learning spaces that are rooted in respect and flexibility and belonging. And we're really excited today to welcome Eleni Bakolias. Yeah. So Eleni is an inclusion support worker in a small town in interior British Columbia, where she supports children with diverse needs in a child care and preschool setting. Originally from Nova Scotia, she made the move out west four years ago and has been continuing her journey in early childhood care ever since. She has been working with kids in a variety of roles since roughly 2018, and brings a broad mix of educational experiences to the work that she does today. She is passionate about creating inclusive spaces where every child feels supported and empowered, and we're so excited to welcome her to the lowdown. Welcome, Eleni. How are you? I'm good. Thank you so much for having me. Oh. Our pleasure. We're very excited. Yes, we're very excited to talk it. Yeah. To talk all things inclusion. Um, so, Eleni, um, for those of you, uh, that may not know, a tradition at the lowdown is we like to start our podcasts off with some secret questions. Um, some might involve some algebra. We can't promise for sure. We'll see how it goes. No, I'm just kidding. No. Um. Um. Okay. Question number one. If you could turn any activity, any everyday activity into an Olympic sport, what would you win a gold medal in? Oh. Probably unloading the dishwasher. Ooh. Yes, yes, it's very strategic. Oh, okay. With loading it to probably, I'm sure like Tetris style loading it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. How much can I fit. And then yeah, the decreased amount of trips to the dishwasher to unload it. I'm Pretty good strategy, accuracy, speed, all there I love it. Love that. Domestic Olympics, hilarious domestic Olympics. Yeah, I was thinking that it was like if I had to answer, I would say dishes or laundry. Maybe I feel like I could, I could, I could, yeah, I have a good air folder. Um, okay. Question number two. What's your go to productivity playlist or music like? What kind of things do you like to listen to when you want to get things done? I'm definitely like a no words for productivity playlist. It has to be like smooth jazz or yeah, the chill hot zone. Yeah, yeah yeah, the coffee house playlist that has no words in it. That's what I use. Love that. Very productive with that. Yeah totally. Last question for you here is what's your favorite way to spend a day off. What do you like to get up to. Mhm. Um I like like campfires and camping and doing anything with my husband and my dog. Oh, yeah. So something. Something outdoors, maybe hiking, some snowboarding, some biking. Yeah, yeah, you're on the right coast for those things for sure. Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. Well, let's let's get into it here. First I want to hear from you. We always love to definitions at the beginning. Um, how would you define inclusivity in a preschool or daycare setting? What does that mean to you? Yeah. Um, for me, it would mean all of the children being able to fully participate in activities and routines and everything that has to do with the day at preschool and childcare and just yeah, everyone participating together. Mhm. And yeah, I feel like that is a it's a really good place to start because in those early years it is all about the routines And it takes all the little nuggets a while to get from point A to point B and doing the thing, and you're there to support a student in joining the gang and doing the thing that everybody else is doing. Um, what do you think are important things to think about when we're talking with staff about handling diverse needs? Yeah, I am so lucky to work with the people that I do work with, like at our our center. All of the staff are just so amazing. And you guys as well, you come in with such good like tips and tricks for everybody. Uh, yeah. Everyone at the center is very just open to education and doing what the children need and adapting to them. Meeting them where they're at is probably like our biggest motto within our staff is like, all right, let's just you meet each child where they're at and you just go from there. Um, Mhm. And my biggest, biggest tip I feel like your staff too are really committed to learning things and seeking out additional supports and things like that, like looking for grants and trying to find new resources. There are things out there that you guys are adding to your repertoire. Yeah, all the time. Yeah, it's so great. And if there's ever any questions from them, they'll always like they'll go to parents or to me or to whoever they think might have an answer or multiple people to get all of the different answers. Mhm. Often there's a lot of answers. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I like how you. Yeah. You referred to like you know like the multiple people because again there's so many people that are experts in the students. I mean the parents are the number one experts, but there's other sub experts or people that have some experience working with those students. So it's nice that you're able to collaborate with, you know, people like speech therapists and OTS. How has that helped kind of enhance the program, the opportunity to be able to collaborate with external team members. Yeah, it has been like amazing. I know, um, the little one I work with, his parents are often like, oh, like, everyone tells us we're so lucky and like, this is like a unicorn that we have here with all of these different supports. And that's definitely how, like, at least we all feel. But everyone who works together, um, but yeah, it's been absolutely amazing meeting with Marla every week. She has taught me so much. And vice versa. Vice versa. I feel like there's knowledge shared in both directions, which is really how how we want collaboration to go. Um, because I'm not there. You're on the other side of the province, so it's equally important all you do such a great job of giving the the updates like we've been doing this today, it's this kind of day. And that really sets the stage, that clear communication for how we can adapt things and adjust on the fly. Yeah, yeah. No. It's been it's been wonderful. Yeah. I was also going to say Eleni I think it's a really important point for other people that are listening is that and we it's so we're it's very gracious of you to kind of put us on in this space of like being the people with the answers. But honestly, I think you see your kids every day. We see our kids depending on where they are, what part of the province they're living in, once a month, once a week, every two weeks. So I think that and it's in a very different kind of environment here. It's like a one on one. You get everything you want and attention. And so I also find that, you know, for those people that are working in preschool daycare settings or in school care settings, like your expertise is equally important for us as therapists because you see this person every day, day in and day out, right? So you are just as, if not more valuable in terms of coming in with the experience. So I think having a bidirectional relationship is so helpful there. Yeah, I totally I totally agree. It's like all these, these moving puzzle pieces that just come together to make one wonderful support. Yeah, exactly. Um, so with respect to, you know, the day to day of of where you work, how do you adapt some of the daily routines and activities to accommodate some of your, um, students with down syndrome? Yeah, I was thinking about this on my drive home. I was like, ah, what are like some things that kind of stand out. And I was just thinking about how I've been with the same, the same child for the last two and a half years. So how are things have really changed since the beginning? So some things to start, like we had, uh, chairs that had the cord around them for feet bouncing and some, like, little stools so that feet would be stable on something instead of dangling in the air because a little bit smaller, the chairs were a little bit too big. So it was a lot of those type of adaptations and potty seats that have a little bit more sturdiness to them. Yeah, but now it's like a lot more verbal and visual, I would say. There's a lot of like verbal cueing and visual cueing and setting up for success for routines. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of those, those devices. So the AAC device that Marla implemented recently has been a big a big thing that we've, that we have learned. Yeah. And travels around with you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's it's great that you're kind of looking at, you know, you're thinking about the environment, like you're talking like an OT. And my heart is just so happy. You're like, we have to think about the seating and the toileting, right. Because and it is and I think it's, it's like you're looking at the whole person that you're supporting. Right. Like what are their toileting seating communication needs. So I think the have you found that adapting makes your job easier as well because you're able to, with the AEC, understand your student better and support them better. Yes. Of course. Yeah. And having those those like OT devices in place makes that kind of like baseline support really nice right. Like so there's that independence for just going to sit in a chair for snack and for going to the potty, which is just like, yeah, a very good baseline. Like, all right. Everything is everything is good in that aspect. And then there's. Yeah. Um, some other things. A lot of it, I guess, gets kind of just adapted by everyone where it becomes more normal. And it's not really something that I can, like, pick out anymore. Like I'm thinking, that's good. That's true inclusion. Yeah, yeah. We use a puppet, um, which is really engaging for the child. And I would always like, oh, use the puppet. Let's go do this. Oh, it's time to sit down for snack. And it's just really fun. And, um, one of our educators uses that for a lot of circles now, so reading the book. Oh, it's the puppet. Reading the book. And everyone loves it. Everyone loves it, but it's so. Yeah, it's really engaging for him. Yeah, it's very creative. It's a strategy that it works for everyone. So I'm just like, oh, that's just something we do now. So a lot of those, those things that we've implemented over the last two years have just like floated out of my brain because they're just. Yeah, it's just part of your routine. Yeah, totally. I'm so happy that you said that. I'm so happy that you said that you used it for one person, but it's been helpful for everybody. Like, that's really what true inclusion is, right? So. Sure. Yeah. And I feel like a piece of your job is around safety, which is a big concern for a lot of parents. Road safety, parking lot safety A to B safety. Um, and all the kids benefit from learning like what a stop sign means. Um, and what when do we go and when do we stop? And just incorporating very direct teaching around like, what do these things mean? And let's practice those kinds of things and everybody's learning there. Um, those are great supports. That has been a large a large part of our support for everybody. Yeah, we go for quite a few outings and there's, there's roads that we have to cross that have, you know, the walking man and stop and hand and things like that. And they've all everyone learns like, oh, put your arms out when you're walking across the street like so you make yourself nice and big so everyone sees you. Yeah. And you use the freeze. So that works really well for the child that I work with who come through freeze or freeze on one foot. Yeah, totally working those executive functioning skills and that impulse control. But it's fun for everybody, right? Like all kids at that age. Like a little freeze dance and a kung fu freeze. Why not? That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And I know that, you know, a huge part of being in preschool or daycare is that peer interaction, peer relationship building component. And what strategies have you used to kind of facilitate that social engagement, um, amongst your kids. Mhm. So the child I work with uses a lot of sign language as well. That has been something that he has taught me a lot about. Like he will do signs and I'm like, all right I gotta I need to look to figure out what that one is. Let me just look that up for a second. He just knows so many and the other children are so interested in that. They have been since the since the beginning. They're like, oh, he just did this. Oh, what does this sign mean? And they'll learn them and they will do them back to him. So when he does signs, they're like, all right friends, let's go play. Like let's go. Yeah. So the social interaction like that has been been wonderful. And same with the AAC device. They love it. And he loves being goofy. So there's some funny ones on there. You know they go woohoo. And the sneezing ones. He loves the sneezes. Yeah. Being a jokester. Exactly. And chatting about um, all the shows that are on there, all the favorite shows, which is what all the other kids are talking about too, right? They're talking about Paw Patrol. He's like, all right, Paw Patrol, I love I'm right in there. Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about all the characters. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, those those devices and the sign language have have really been great for social interactions. Um, every all the children are just, they're so kind and inclusive of, of everybody, which is wonderful and, and vice versa as well. If, if you know, he sees somebody who's, who's upset, he'll be like, he's crying and go over and be like, oh, what's wrong? Which is so nice. And it's reciprocal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I feel like one thing that maybe you don't even realize that you did, but was so instrumental, was helping him learn how to, like, find things in the arc. So, like, yes, everyone's talking Paw Patrol, but until he can find it on his own, that's the. That's your role is to be like, oh, let's find that Paw patrol and, like, get you in there so that you can chat with everybody. Um, yeah. Totally. Yeah. It's lovely. Yeah, it was really, really fun. Um, how does it go with parents? How do you involve them in, like, planning and implementing these kinds of strategies and things like that? Do you how does that go for you? Yeah. The, the his parents that I work with, they are awesome. They're amazing. They're like the best advocate advocates for him. And that has been perfect for the daycare staff because when I first started, a lot of it was new to me, so they were just very open about, oh well, if you want to listen to something or if you want a podcast or some information like here, here's all of it. And I was like, that's great, give me more. Give me all the information I want, all of it. So in that way, I think yeah, it started off really strong. Um, because they are such, such advocates, advocates for him and then us as well. We want to learn as much as we can. Um, but yeah, building strategies and stuff. It was all, you know, based on, like, a foundation to start a relationship with the child, with the parents that came first, like making that trustful connection. And then after that we would talk about strategies. They would they would build the strategies. And in collaboration with OT and SLP and things like that, what they see at home, what they would like to see in the future. And Then based on that information, we would then build strategies that we could do inside of the childcare setting that could hopefully be the same as at home. And then we would go over that together. Yeah, yeah, go over that together. Make sure everything was was how they wanted it. And yeah, we would just go from there. Yeah. Um, it, yeah, it is so great. It's so great to be a part of it. Um, what? I'm hoping that parents with little ones who might be listening to this are thinking is like, oh, I can be that advocate role, and that's totally fine. I can ask or just let people know about this kind of information, and if it's a good fit, that support person will be into it and they will want to learn. They'll be excited about it. And then we can build our relationship based on everyone wanting to do their best for this kid. Um, which is pretty, pretty fantastic. Um, what's been rewarding for you working in an inclusive daycare preschool like this? Um, well, I just love all of it, to be honest. Like, I'm often like, what do you mean? I just do this every day, and I actually get paid to go and, like, hang out there. This is crazy. Um, yeah. There's just there's been so many, like, successes throughout the two and a half years. You know, like some, some larger ones, like, like potty training and independent dressing, like, those were big ones where I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah. This is so nice. Like, yeah, it's finally happening. The big one. Yeah, it's a huge one. Oh yeah. Yeah yeah. Like some some small ones too. And switching scissors. Like going from these scissors to then like the scissors, you know, like that's also exciting. Yeah. I honestly. Yeah, I love all of it. I think it's so great. I think even just celebrating small things is such a part of an inclusive setup. Right? Because you're not like even little gains are celebrated as if they're huge gains. And that is such a great part of how you approach things and supporting your students and your daycare. So I think that's so great to hear. Um, what advice would you give to other daycare providers that are looking to become more inclusive and kind of following by your example? Oh, okay. Um. I would probably go back to that need in every child where they're at and starting at that type of that type of baseline, um, instead of age. Yeah. Yeah. Meet them where they are. Go from there. It's so beneficial for everybody to have an inclusive environment for all the children. It's just so wonderful. All the all the teachers. Um, I kind of, like, fell into the role, not necessarily searching for this specific type of role. I'm so happy I fell into it, but. So it wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't something I was searching to do. But now I'm like, this is definitely something I want to stay in. Um, coming into it, it feels a little bit overwhelming. But if you ask for help for from so many people, people are willing to help and educate you and lead you in the right direction for what you might be, might be questioning, which I did. I did a lot to start. I got lots of lots of help, lots of direction from other educators. And yeah, it's been it's been wonderful. I also want to point out what you said earlier again, which was rapport comes first for you. Um, and that's very evident when I see you and the student together, because you are having a really good time together and like, you see his humor as humor and not like, oh, he's not on task. He's being naughty. Um, you're like, no, that's hilarious. And we're like, we're having a good time. And you're the creativity that you bring means that learning is still happening for sure. Um, you're just going along and following his lead. Um, but the rapport first piece, I think, should not be underestimated at all. Um, because he adores you, um, and will do things for you. Or if not you, the puppet. So that's still your arm. We're going to count it. Yeah. It's an extension of you. Yes. Yeah, totally. And I think it's so great, too, because I think in all of the things that you've said so far, there's a true genuine want to be inclusive and to make an environment inclusive and supportive. And I think that's also such a great place to start, like just understanding what inclusion is and how that can look different for each person because it can, like everyone can have a slightly different definition of it, but having the desire to include is so important to have as well. Yeah, it truly is. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what message would you like to share with families or parents that are considering, you know, daycare for their kids? Like, what are some of the things that you would, um, ask for them to look for or questions that you would ask for them to, to ask, you know, the potential daycare or preschool, um, centers. Mhm. Um, let's think. Definitely. Um. I would ask about some centers do have general support staff members that work throughout the center. So that might be a good thing to ask about as to start off like ratios, how many educators are in the room, how many students are in the room. Is it big classes? Is it small classes? Um, even sometimes the age range of those classes is good to know as well. We have group care, so our age range is a little bit larger than some centers. So we have two and a half to five year olds in the same room, whereas a lot of centers kind of divide that. Mhm. Um you definitely do a tour, look around, ask about professional development, um, even qualifications of the educators as well. Yeah. I'm trying to think of other things. Do some centers on that side of it like I know. Right. It's. Yeah. So I'm like, yeah, I'm already in there looking at everything. So I'm, I'm like, what? What are the things that a parent wouldn't know about is what I'm trying. Yeah. Is what I'm trying to think of my brain. Do all centers have professional development or is that not a guarantee? I feel like that's something people should know. Yeah, I think all people who hold an E certificate have to do so many professional development hours every year, so there is a need to do it. Um, what they do it about or on is up to them. Um, but some centres, they will say, all right, this is our professional development. We're all going to do this one together because it'll benefit our centre and our children and our staff. So if there is ever yeah, some specific professional development to do that would help any of the everybody. Yeah. Yeah. You can. Yeah. Send that or. Yeah. And then our centre would certainly be open to that. Yeah. And I feel like there could be more questions too around like how set is the daily routine. Like let's say some some centres are extremely set in their routine and like only washroom at this time only wash hands at that time, etc. and for somebody who you know needs longer to potty train, for example, or needs more flexibility around that, you want to make sure that the center can accommodate that staff wise, right? That they have somebody who can do more washroom trips or longer washroom trips, or longer snack time, longer meal time, all that jazz. Um, to be able to ask those detailed questions and that it's okay that you ask those questions. Yeah. That is that is a good one to point out because often oftentimes our transition times are longer. So we will start a transition maybe before everybody. And sometimes maybe our transition ends after everybody. Sometimes it's with everyone. Sometimes it's quicker than everybody else. Yeah. So yeah it does. It does vary a lot. And I am the the visual on that child being supervised. So yeah having that having that extra staff enough staff to. Yes. And I think that's essentially a universal in our group that we support of kids with down syndrome, that transitions are a thing. They can yeah, they can go fast. They can go slow, they can go sideways. Um, and you do need somebody else or like some eyes on the child, especially in those like room to room outside of the room type transition. So they need to be able to staff that. Yeah for sure. Um, and I think another thing families should realize is that your kid's daycare and preschool team play such an important role in that transition to kindergarten, too, because for the clients that we share, you know, you guys are a huge part of that meeting because because again, you see these kids way more often than we do. You have such valuable insight into, um, you know, what will make their kindergarten experience successful in that transition? Successful. So that's also another thing to kind of continuously talk to your daycare about. Like, you know, are you guys keeping a record? Are you writing reports like? What is that going to look like? So some of those long term things could be good to to to keep in mind as well. Yeah for sure. And I think schools really want to know what happens in daycare and preschool because that is the most akin to a school environment. It's a group setting. There are transitions. There are, you know, free times and then more structured times. And they almost more than like, how does it look at home? They want to know how does it look in the most similar place to here. Um, so if there is an opportunity to give your kid the chance to get used to being in a group before school, it's not a bad idea to try it out, you know? Yeah, for sure. It's really fun. Yeah, especially where you are. You guys are having a blast. Yeah, yeah. Another another great thing about the preschool program is that a lot of the educators in the room also have a rapport with the kindergarten teachers. Yeah. Where they actually come in and observe, and then we get to go visit the schools as well with the children so they can experience that. So they might have that that school rapport where maybe a parent who has their first child going into that school might not. Yeah. Which is also really nice. And then generally hopefully those inclusive principles just kind of rub off really nicely onto the kindergarten, just like just osmosis. Just take it in. Right. So it just slips right in. Yeah. Exactly. So it's a good things to it's a good thing to think a little bit long term too when you're deciding on a daycare. Like what is the end game look like after daycare. So yeah. And in more small towns and more rural places, the chances that the kids you're in preschool with are the same kids that you go to school with are much higher. Um, but those are great peer connections to maintain from one location to the next. I feel like that's less likely, um, in the bigger city centers where there are so many elementary schools and there's no guarantee. But, you know, if you live in a smaller place, that's a that's a good thing. Yeah. In this case for sure. In this case. Yeah for sure. A lot of them are going together and they're all very excited. Yeah, we're going to the same school. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so, uh, well, Eleni, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today. It's so great to hear from your experiences. And I think you sharing your philosophy and how you approach this. It's it's making it more approachable and accessible for everybody else that's listening. They're like, okay, like, I can do this. I can make it more inclusive. And I think, you know, for those of the people that are listening out there that are like, I want to become more inclusive, you can start small, right? And like you and Marla were talking about earlier, if you can just work on that rapport piece that will like pay in dividends, right? Because once you establish that bond and that trust with your student, like, everything else can get that much easier. So we really do appreciate you for not only what you do with our students, but also for sharing your experiences with others. And hopefully it'll inspire others to kind of think a little bit more inclusively too. So thank you for joining us today. We appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. It's been wonderful getting to chat with you guys. Yeah. Thank you.