Family Spotlight: The Paqeuo Family

On Season 11, Episode 9 of The LowDOWN: A Down Syndrome Podcast, Sarah and Carlo Paqueo give us the lowdown on life with their son Ronin.

Transcript

Before we begin today's episode, we want to take a moment to acknowledge that this podcast is recorded in Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada, on the traditional, ancestral and unceded territories of the hən̓ q ̓əmin̓ əm  and the Sḵwx̱wú7mesh speaking peoples, including the Musqueam and Tsleil-Waututh nations at the Down Syndrome Resource Foundation. We recognize the work we do to support individuals with down syndrome takes place on land that has been cared for by indigenous peoples for generations. We honor their enduring connection to this land and acknowledge the impacts of colonialism that continue to affect indigenous communities today. As an organization rooted in inclusion and empowerment, we recognize our responsibility to not only acknowledge this history, but to actively learn from it. We are committed to fostering respectful relationships with indigenous peoples and integrating principles of reconciliation, equity, and justice into all aspects of our work. In advocating for the rights and potential of individuals with down syndrome, we strive to build a more inclusive world, one that recognizes and respects all identities, histories, and cultures. Today on The Lowdown A Down Syndrome podcast. Sarah and Carlo Paqueo gives us a lowdown on life with his son, Rowan. Over to you, Hina and Marla. Thanks, Danielle. We are so honored to bring you another family's story for this season's family Spotlight. Whether you're walking a similar path or simply listening to understand, we hope this conversation reminds you of the power of the lived experience and the strength that is found in community. And this year we're pleased to chat with the Paqueo family. So we have Carlo and Sarah. Welcome so much to The Lowdown podcast. Hello, hello, hello. Thank you. Um, so in the grand tradition of our podcast, we always like to start with some secret questions. Um, are you guys game? Yes. Just so our audience can get to know you a little bit better. Um, okay, I'll start us off. Uh, if you could master any skill immediately, what would it be? It's a tough one. It's a tough one because there's so many, right? Do you want to go first? No. I think for me, it would be culinary cooking, because I enjoy when people enjoy food. But I can't make food that way immediately. I would also enjoy that if you master that skill, Sarah would also love for you to have that skill. Make it happen. Yeah. Oh. Cooking. Yeah. I mean, that is a really great skill to have, but I can understand what you mean. Like there's cooking and then there's, like, cooking, right? Yeah. For sure. Very cool. Um, okay. Question number two. If you had to write a book, what would it be about? Sarah I'll throw it to you first. Oh, what would it be about? Um. Um. I would write a rom com book. Oh, I love a good rom com book. Um, where nobody I don't. Well, where it's a happy ending. Yeah. Happy ending. Yeah. No tragedy. No tragedy. Yep. Yeah. It's the worst when you're expecting this really happy, fluffy book. And then tragedy and you're like, oh, yeah, it's not why I'm reading this. Crying. Hashtag the notebook. Yeah. Referring to the notebook. I totally know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah, totally. All right, last question for you here, given our chat from before. If you could spend your day out on the lake using any kind of watercraft, what would you take out? Ooh, I would take the kayak out. Oh, yeah. Because I my core strength. As much as I would love to paddle board, my core strength is like, no, thanks. Sit down. I think it'd be a sailboat. Ooh. But I have no idea how to operate one. Okay, so that should be. You could be the chef on the boat. Yeah. I need two skills. Sounds good. Oh, sailboat. Oh, yeah. Any kind of thing out on the lake for the day is very wonderful. Hmm. Uh, let's let's talk a little bit about your family. Why don't we start by? You guys, introduce your family to us. Tell us a little bit about the kids. Um, we are the pickle family, and. And, um, we have a daughter, Parker, who is thirteen, and a son, Ronin, who is eight and a half. Very important. Do not forget that. And they are both wild, loving children. Yeah. Yeah. Big emotions. Yeah. Lots of emotions. Yeah. Yeah. Um. They like to. Perform? Yeah. They're big musical kids. Yeah. Dancing Spider-Man. Reenactment. Reenactment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's us. Yeah. I guess I mean, that's more the kids. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. That totally works. Um, let's hear a little bit more about Ronan. Like, what are some of the things he's super into? Can you tell us a little bit about his personality? Yeah. Just so that listeners can kind of, kind of, like, make this picture in their mind. Yeah. Ronan's always been full of energy, and, um, he likes to be the center of attention most days, actually. All days. All days. Days. Um, yeah. He just wants to be heard. And he wants to be seen. Yeah. Um, and he sometimes gets upset when that's not going his way. Um, but he's pretty happy about it. Like, he'll he'll sing. He likes to introduce himself to people and introduce us to people, even when we're not really ready to meet new people. Like in an elevator, for instance. Right. Hi, I'm Ronan. This is my mom. This is my dad. So it's really cool that that he's that outgoing. Yeah. And he's not shy. Mhm. Um, but sometimes he gets upset that people don't reciprocate. So he'll, he'll say hello and somebody may not be in the mood to say hello back. And we just have to explain to him that that's okay. Yeah. And that's all right. Yeah. That's all right. But keep trying. Don't don't, uh, don't get discouraged. Um. What else? He, um. He is very good with his boundaries. Um, um, for himself, I should say, um, he is, um, great at when he is done, um, with any kind of activity, he's great at being like, nope, I'm done. No more. Yeah. Oh, you want a hug? I'm not feeling like a hug. No, no. Thank you. Um, um, work in progress is the other way around, though, right? Because he's so loving and he just wants to, um, share that, um, um, and so he might tell people he loves them that he's just met or go up to people and he's like, oh, let's hug. And you're like, you don't know this person. Maybe, you know, stand a little bit back. Say hello. Yeah. Wait. And it goes the other way, too, when he's upset. Yeah. He. He could have just met this person, but he he may have some very strong words if he doesn't like what they're doing and he uses words, maybe he shouldn't. Um, and he's eight. We get it. Yeah. Just grappling with what things mean. Yeah. You know, like saying that he loves someone might just mean that he likes them or. Yeah. I like what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I think it's like it's all coming from this, like, very whole, like this very honest, innocent place. Like, he just wants to make connections with people and have people in his life connect with each other, which is really a gift. But like you said, Sarah, like it is also important for him to understand there's a right time and place for it, right? So it's a tricky thing to navigate sometimes with a lot of our students. Yeah. And I had the pleasure of seeing him a lot in camp over this summer, and he's a kid with some leadership skills. Like he really thrived under that role of like, can you eight year old help these other kids by learning the moves to this dance routine or learning the moves to this fitness routine? And he was loving it. He was like, I can absolutely do that and be your assistant. And yeah, he was very excited to have an important role and to share and very encouraging of other kids. It was great to see. Yeah, a lot of independence. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. I can imagine. Yeah, yeah. Which is fun and difficult and difficult, especially in the mornings. In the mornings or when it's time to brush teeth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's very capable. He's very capable. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, of course we kind of glossed over this fact, but of course, Ronan has down syndrome, um, which is one of the many amazing things about him. Can you share the moment when you first learned about Ronan's diagnosis and kind of what thoughts or emotions came up for you as parents. Oh, um, uh, we learned that Ronan would have down syndrome. Um, after a amnio. That's what they're called, right? Amnio. Um, twenty weeks pregnant, twenty one, twenty around there. Um, and I learned at work, um, which was a just a weird just a the whole situation was just a weird thing, like, my obstetrician and I did all the blood tests because, like, hey, you're taking all this blood, take out all the blood you need. Sure. Um, and the first blood test came back. There's a chance that your child will have down syndrome. Okay, no big deal. Um, then. my OB said, if you are interested, you can do the next blood test. Okay, sure. Did the blood test and she's like, oh, you know, the levels are are the levels are elevated. And there's still a higher chance that if you really want, you can do an amnio. Um, I think because he was presenting as quote typical uh, in his, in the ultrasounds, um, she was like, you know, that's probably, you know, it's just the chance. Yeah. At the amnio, um, that's everyone was lovely. I know that's not everyone's experience. I just wanted to share that I had a very lovely experience with the doctors and the geneticist that I. Geneticist? Yeah. That I saw, um, very positive experience with them. Um, but a If, however, many days later, I received a phone call and it's my obstetrician and I'm at work, and I took the phone call in the back and I and she told me she's like, okay, so, you know, this might not be what you were thinking the results were going to be, but your child will have down syndrome and a wave of different emotions happened. And, um, my, I just like I was on the floor. That sounds so dramatic, but I was on the floor crying. It's big news. It's big news. It's big news on the floor crying. Um, and I had, um, my boss has a dog that comes into work, and he came up to me, and he kind of was, like, smelling my face. Are you okay? I'm going to like my way right next to you. And then my boss came in and he's like, is everything okay? What's going on? And I and he was actually the the first person I told because he was he was there. Yeah. Yeah. And he's amazing. And he's like would you like a hug? And he's like gave me a hug. He's like, it's going to be great, you know, go home. We don't need you here today. Go home. Just process. Um, and so I did and that was how I found out. And I didn't really know how to share that information otherwise other than with my boss. Yeah. So. Yeah. Um, thank you, Sean, for sending me home. That being the support. Yeah. And what a great statement to make. Like, it'll be great. Like, it's just like. Yeah. Whether he's had experience in that realm or not. Like, it's just such a neutral but like just a great statement to kind of help ground you in that moment for a bit, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then you found out, well, you texted me and you asked if I was done my day, if I was coming home soon. Yeah. Um, so at the time, we lived right above where I had worked. Oh, okay. It was easy for me to just go upstairs, and, um, Sarah was on the floor. I love the floor. She likes the floor. It's very. It is grounding. Yeah. Yeah. And so I knew. I knew, um, that she needed a hug and that things were gonna be okay. I, I didn't know what that would entail. To be honest. I had no idea what it meant. I think all the while, all the tests, it was a chance, a small chance. So we didn't really talk about it. We didn't think that it would be us, you know, we thought it would be fine. And, you know, it just needs further testing and when. And then I think that's when it hit us both that, okay, now we need to figure out what we're doing here. Yeah. Um, and you know, I think that's more what took over rather than the, uh, denial and despair. It was more like, okay, well, now what do we do? Yeah. And just finding more information and telling our family and friends who are all super supportive. Um, we have members of the family that have kids with autism, and, you know, they had great advice around making sure that, um, you know, you knew who you needed in your life. You knew what professional circle you needed, what help you might need. Um, and we just, I guess, got to work. Yeah. Yeah. We were motivated. Action mode. Yeah. Solution focused. You're like, all right, let's just let's just. Let's go. Okay, now I can enjoy this the rest of this pregnancy. Yeah. And we just. Yeah. It was really just. Okay. What resources are available and who do we contact and like, do we need to talk to someone now? Do we need to be on a list for something? Um, what what do we need to do when this baby is here? Yeah. And everyone was like, you're a bit early. Yeah. You got a lot of that. You need to wait just a bit until your baby is actually born. We don't know what he needs. Oh, okay. That makes sense. Are you sure? Cause, you know, like, for example, daycares. Not that we really need a daycare or anything, but you always hear get your name on the list. Oh, yeah. Yeah. If you're considering getting pregnant. Yeah, exactly. And so we're thinking like, oh, we need to get on a list for something, for resources and for some things. You were absolutely right. Yeah, for some things, that is definitely the approach. Yeah. But to rewind there a bit, to be fair, it took a moment to get to that stage when we were go go go. I think we were still not upset. But like I guess in the news itself you just feel like a bit not defeated, but you know, you just get the wind out of your sails a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I felt initially. Yeah. Yeah. Like the. The. This is not. I don't know if this is going. I don't mean for this to sound negative. Right. But it's going to be a truth. So yeah. You know. Yeah, it was as if we were mourning what we thought we were going to have. Yeah. You know, mourning the. Okay, we'll have two kids and it you know, it will just it'll look like this. Like this morning the idea of quote typical. Mhm. Um and then and. Yeah. Mhm. It's one of those pivot points in life. Right. And it's a big paradigm shift. But in this case when you get this kind of news you don't know what paradigm you're shifting into. Like it wasn't planned necessarily to shift into this one. But it doesn't mean it's a bad one. You just it's new. Yeah. Very new. Yeah. And I think it's I've had many families, Sarah, say very similarly to how you put it. They're like, I just had to mourn. And we have to give families that space. Yeah. And that that, you know, time to mourn, because that can apply to any news that you receive in your daily life. Like you have an expectation of something, it's going to be something different. You just need time to adjust, right? And and you have to give yourself that time to adjust before you can fully embrace the new thing, right? And that's just how we think as humans, right? So so I think it's it's yeah, I think it's a really great thing that you shared that because I think it'll help other families also feel okay to do that as well. So you talked a lot about, you know, that you received some great emotional support from your families and which is great. Um, I was just curious what have been is there something now that Ronan is eight and a half, I'll make sure I remember the half. Um, is there anything that you look back now where you were just like, oh, I wish, you know, this was different or I wish we did this at all, or you're just kind of like, you know what? Everything is kind of flowing the way it's supposed to, and we're just going to take it as it comes, like just kind of looking back. Curious what your thoughts were. Funny enough, the only thing really, I don't know that I think I wish I did different was I wish I got him into swimming. Oh, and it has nothing to do with the support. Yeah, but yeah, swimming is the biggest one that I wish we got him into. Yeah. Looking back, yeah, I think we took for granted, um, the adaptive nature of having to look for certain programs and just thinking, oh, we could put them in this and this, and. But you kind of have to consider what additional support he might need in that program. Um, we tried a few different things. A few different things didn't work out. He he ran away from dance. He ran away? Yes. But the teacher, he. Okay, so he ran away. He ran away. Which is hilarious because he loves to dance. Yeah, exactly. It was I. He wasn't ready to be in a class on his own plan thing with mom and Dad. Yeah. Such a great way. And they weren't ready for him either. Yes. Neutral teacher and a ta. Yeah. They weren't prepared. They weren't prepared for flight risk. Yes. Um, and so he. This was on Granville Island? Yeah. Oh, jeez. Yeah. So he made so many escape routes. Oh, yeah. And he made his way down, like, three flights of stairs. Almost made his way out of the building. But someone was like, this isn't right. So they stopped him. Yeah. Um. And I. Yeah, he the teacher was like. He loves to dance, but he loves you more. So he's. He was looking for us. Mhm. And funny enough, we actually were coming into the class to watch him. But he must have gotten out through people's legs or something. Very Ocean's eleven. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? I was also very proud of him for walking down all those stairs like he was little. And we don't have stairs at home. And that was a big thing he was working on. So good for you for walking down. Apparently he was following a woman who was wearing something similar to his mom. Yeah, I remember that. He was chasing her. Yeah. And we were sitting there wondering, where's Ronan watching all these little kids dance? I'm like, oh, I think he's gone. Wow. Um, but just to, you know, just to add to that a bit that, um, the school such an amazing place. They actually changed the way that they, um, accept or not accept kids, but support kids. Um, and if there's any kind of support that's needed, um, on the registration forms, you can write that down, and then they'll send you another email with a follow up. How can we support your child? So I think that's wonderful. And that changed. I'd like to think that was because of Ronan. I'm going to say that was because Ronan did that. Changing the world, changing things. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So just, you know, just so everyone's clear. It's a lovely place. Yeah. But. And I think, you know, you brought up that, you know, it's not only whether your kids are ready for the program, but are they also equipped and ready to support him. And they can have all the best intentions in the world and want to be inclusive, but they might also need a little bit of help. I'm like, okay, because Ronan and another kid with down syndrome and another kid with down syndrome will all have different needs, right? It doesn't mean that it's an equal thing, but if you see Ronan and the person he is and the gifts that he brings, then you'll know, right? So it's just, yes, for anybody who's listening that works with people with disabilities, this is a really important lesson that, you know, you take the person who you're working with at face value and you support them with what they need, right? Right. Yeah. And more information is always better, right? Ask if you're not sure if you're ready to support somebody. Ask what they need and then you'll know. Exactly. Yeah. Mhm. Um. Let's see. Um well so Ronan's in school and for a lot of people school is a mixed bag of really awesome things and some big challenges, and I'm wondering if you could speak to a little bit about some of the challenges that you've navigated, aside from running from dance? Um, but some of the other challenges that you've navigated and how that's gone for you. With school. Um. It's been a roller coaster with school. Um, he was in preschool. We had some great advice to, if we could, if we could manage the drive and if we were okay with the drive or him going out. Um, it was recommended that he went to a certain preschool, um, out at UBC. Oh, that's a big drive. That's a drive? Yeah. He was all of a sudden in university, all of a sudden university. It was great. He loved it. And we he got in, um, during Covid Twenty twenty because I guess because everyone was leaving, there was a spot that opened up. So we were very fortunate. Everything just fell into place with him support and um, um, but he was one of maybe twelve kids in the class, I think. So there was a lot of one on one time with him for teachers, for teachers, twelve students. It was the best thing ever. Um, did we name drop or do we not? I don't know if we're allowed to. That's why I've been keeping names out of everything I see. Well, there you there. There are quite a few out there, so somewhere there you can. Yeah, it is pretty important, I think, in what you're speaking to is the importance of the right fit and the right connection. And a lot of times it's word of mouth for people to find out. Is that is that a permission to go ahead? I think I mean, we're just helping families that are wondering and are. Yeah. Navigating. So. Yeah. Yeah. Berwick. Um. Child development. Child development center. Amazing. So great. Awesome. So great. Um, and we were a bit spoiled there. I think just seeing how they, uh, put a development plan together, seeing how they really cater to each of the kids needs. And there were a lot of different kids there, and it just seemed like they were they were on top of it. They were asked if he was a flight risk. We're like, yes, yes, yes. Thank you for thank you for. That's a great first question. Yes. Yes. Elopement check. Mark. Yeah. Um, yeah. And so he did have a challenging first couple of days. He cried so hard that his nose bled. I remember that. Yeah. But he kept coming back. He's like, I can do it. You know, his nose was bleeding. He was crying, and he came back the next day like, I'm gonna try again. Good for him. And he stuck it out and he had an amazing time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we moved into. And then he started elementary school, um, which brought on different challenges because we, they were not as, um. They were not as. I think initially initially, um, their the school that he, um, currently goes to there, there was a child who's older who has down syndrome. And so I think what they were thinking was like, okay, it's kind of like they knew they thought they knew what he was talking about. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly what Hannah was talking about earlier, you know, so they were catering a bit towards that child's needs for Ronin. In um, and another classmate who also has. Yes, and another classmate who has down syndrome. So it was a bit challenging. And because he's, um, because he's Ronan and he's like, nope, I run the show. Yeah. Um, yeah. We had we had to find or they had to find someone who'd really fit and bond with him. And then they found someone and then realized, oh, we might need more than one person because, you know, if that person goes on holidays or on vacation or something. And that's where there was a big, big challenge. I mean, I know it's different for every, um, every child. Um, with him, we thought we would try it out. Ronan having one particular one or two particular aides and then realizing how much he wasn't listening to anyone else. Um, we tried switching them up. Um, the regular, the regulars that were there, switching them up. And, you know, he's. He knows how to. He knows how to, um. I love you, Ronan, but he's very manipulative. He knows how to pull strings. Yeah. Um. Especially heartstrings. And so he knows when he can get away with something, or when he can't get away with something. And with whom. So it's like, I'm not going to listen to you. I'm going to go to this person over here because they'll listen to me and I'll get to do whatever I want. It's very resourceful. Yeah. Resourceful. Yeah. Understands people really well. Yeah. Yeah. All good things that will serve him very well in the long term. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah. If we could take anything away from his educational journey, and we've. We were told this early on is that we have to advocate so hard for him. We were a bit spoiled in preschool, and that they were doing such a good job of advocating for him. We thought, okay, well, this is what it's going to be like. I think it was a bit of a harsh reality going into another school. Yes. Elementary school? Yes, of course it's a different place, but we had to be more of a voice for him, which we didn't quite necessarily know how to do or who to talk to or what resources or, you know, how the funding worked. Yeah. So, you know, we had to figure that out too. Yeah. Yeah, it's a learning curve. And by we I mean Sarah. She did know. And you filled me in along the way. But yeah. No, it was it was definitely a crash course. And speaking to a lot of parents as well. Yes. This podcast is I think is fantastic because now we can try to share some of our experiences. And if we had a podcast to listen to at the time, I think that would have been very helpful. Yes. Oh, yeah. Just be the squeaky wheel. That's what we were. Squeaky wheel and document everything one hundred percent because it's like, um, if, um, if you're going to be told one thing. Yes, we will get this for the classroom. Yes we will. This is what we're going to have. This is this is the plan. Um, it's one thing to say it, and it's another to have those things actually show up in the classroom. Um, emails. I don't like talking over the phone. I'm like, I need things in written form that have a record of. If you would like to talk to me about this, I'm going to record this conversation. Yeah. And I think and it's funny because we've heard this from so many families, like, we wish that you don't have to advocate as much as you do because a lot of families, it's just like exhausting to constantly keep advocating. Every year you're like, okay, we just talked about this last year. Yes. But you're absolutely right, sir. I think the squeaky wheel does get the grease, but hopefully families that are listening will understand that. You can also rely on your village and your support systems, too. Right. So allow them to also advocate with you or to take on a fight with you, because it is a lot. It is a lot. And it's very uncomfortable for a lot of families to approach an educational institution and say, we need dynamics. Yeah, it's a truly strange power dynamic because the last time you were there, you were a student probably, and you did not get to go and say, I want this. We need this. You can't do that in somebody else's workplace. Right. And so that is a difficult. Yeah. And just getting that balance because I have so many families that'll be like, oh like I don't want to create trouble. But I'm like, but you're like, I don't want any parent to ever feel like they shouldn't. They're causing trouble for advocating for their kids. Obviously there's a respectful and a good way to do it not. And of course, teachers have it hard too. We understand the balance, but there are certain situations where you're just like, but we literally just are asking for the bare minimum for our child. Yes. And we shouldn't have to do. And we shouldn't have to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very tricky. Um, here's a bit of a philosophical question for you, but, um, talk to me about what inclusion means for your family and where have you seen it work out really well or fall short? Just around the concept of being included and inclusion. Inclusion to us is just what we said early on because we have two kids, right? And we had our eldest, she she's also quite outgoing. We just for us, inclusion means that Ronan has the same opportunities as his older sister, whatever that means, and whatever he wants to pursue. Um, of course, where we've seen challenges is those same opportunities aren't always available to him. Um, swimming is a great example. Yeah, I was just going to say swimming to get into certain things. Yeah. Um, and, you know, you could you could mean well and you want those things, but they're just they're just simply not available. And you kind of wonder, why is that. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Um. Yeah, that's my take on it. I think it's very well said. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's a big it's a big question. It's a big question. And I think your definition of inclusion will change as Ronan gets older too, right. I do agree with you one hundred percent, Carlo. Like I am a big fan of inclusion means equal opportunity. So it doesn't mean that you always have to be in the same room as everybody all the time. It's that you should be able to have the opportunity to learn and to grow and to explore like everybody else. And that can just look a bit different, but the opportunity should always be there. So I think that's the perfect way to put it. And I like how you added if he wants to. Yeah. Right. And taking your lead from, you know, what his interests are and keeping an eye on his long term future and making sure that doors are open for him should he want to pursue things, you know, five or ten years from now, too. Mhm. On that note, what are you hoping the future looks like for Ronan in school or friendships? Work Independence, all those kinds of things. What do you do? You have a picture in your mind where you're trying to go or how far into the future are we going? It's up to you. We would love for Ronan to be able to be as independent as live, as independent as possible for him. You know, like, because he is such a personality where he's like, I can do this or, um, I want to do this on my own. I would love for him to be able to wake up in the morning and be like, hey, I can make myself breakfast. Yeah. Hey, I can get myself to work. Like. And then come home and and have those interactions with people where he's like, hey, we're coworkers, we're friends. Like, this is awesome. Now I'm going home and I'm going to have dinner, get ready for bed and do it all again tomorrow. You know, I would love for him to be able to just have that full autonomy. Yeah, yeah, without having to, um, rely on someone. Oh, well, I can't I can't make my breakfast yet because I have to wait for someone to be here. And I understand that that may or may not happen for him. Right? I mean, right now, he knows how to go and grab a box of cereal and eat right out of it. Or cookies or chocolate. The chocolate stash, you know. So, yeah, I mean, I think he's okay for breakfast. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm on the same lines. I think he's so determined that, um, I hope for him to be able to overcome any obstacle that would prevent him from being who he wants to be. Like he tells me in the mornings, you know, I'm going to work. He's like, well, I'm going to work there, too one day, and I'm going to get a job there. And I said, oh really? How are you going to get there? I'm gonna drive and I'm gonna drive you to. Oh, okay. So, you know, I think, I think being able to do those things, like, if he wants to drive, great. I want him to be able to drive. Mhm. If he wants to work where I work I would love to try my best to get him a job there. And wouldn't that be awesome. That would be awesome. And then he would drive you. I would love to have a designated job. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. I can just relax. Sleeping in the car. Like I'm ready. Let's go. Yeah. I think that self-determination piece is such a important goal. And it could look different, like you said, for him when he gets older. But I just love that you're instilling that in him at an early age, being like, yeah, you can pour your own cereal. I don't need to do it for you. Right. And that job finding the chocolate stash. Yeah. Just getting over certain things. Because as parents, you're you feel like no is a big part of your vocabulary. Yeah. I just sometimes I feel bad because we do say no. Yeah. Well, ask for some pretty outlandish things. We also, we do have to say no, but we want them to roll with that? No. And turn it into a yes. Right. Put yourself in a position where you're going to get the yes. And we did that early on with our daughter and she's quite the negotiator. And Ronan's getting there too. But I want him to be able to get around no's and don't take no at face value and find out what that when no is like boundaries. Boundaries and safety. Yes, yes, yeah. And it's good for them to learn that some things are just gonna be a no. Sorry buddy, that's just the way it is. But, like, let's figure out what we can say yes to, like, let's talk about it. Right? So yeah, I get that for sure. Yeah. Um, kind of as we're winding the episode down, I'm going to get philosophical again. Are there any misconceptions about downstream? Because I know you said, Carla, you've had friends and family that have had people with disabilities on the autism spectrum. Um, but are there any misconceptions about Down's syndrome that you because you're learning every year as you grow with Ronan, you're learning more and more about him and about down syndrome. What are some misconceptions you think that other people might have that you would like for them to kind of examine and reevaluate? Um, that he's always happy? Um, yeah. That is that is a big one. Um, I don't know. I hear that, um, I, I actually don't really know how to. Approach it. I hear it from patients sometimes, like, oh, yeah, I have certain stereotypes. The whole community. Oh, you know, there's such a happy people. And I'm just like, oh, you just come over and I just. Yeah, you know, he has his moments. You just play it off that way. But he's a whole person. He's a whole person with all the different emotions and feelings. Yeah. And I find that too, like, I have, uh, a wide demographic of clients, but especially the older clients will always assume that someone with down syndrome is a happy person, like all the time and always smiling. And you know that I always just have to explain that they he has big emotions, whether it's happy, sad or whatever. You'll get all that Ronan has to offer with that emotion. And so it's not always happy, but when he's happy, he's really happy. And when he's mad, he's mad. Yes. Yes. Yeah. The other one that I, uh, we were told early on was the fact that he'd have low tone and, um, that he wouldn't be able to do certain things physically. Yeah. But he's proven us wrong. Like, he's he's a strong kid. He is. And so that was kind of a nice surprise. Yes. It was. It was, um, some great advice. Don't let him sit on the sidelines and watch. That's great advice to push him. Yeah. Yeah. Go try it. Go try it. Yeah. Yeah. He's really flourished in physical activities. Like gymnastics, for instance. He really likes gymnastics. Yes. Yeah, I guess it's just the the listening to the instructor part is. What? Yeah, he's doing his own thing in the corner. He's like, I'm in the room. Yeah. And he's really. He enjoys the one on one part of it, so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those are really, really great things for everyone to kind of to think about. Um, what has Ronan taught you personally as parents? Oh, this is gonna sound cliche, like, but just slow down. Yeah. Slow down. Because he will he will get to finish. He will finish his breakfast when he's ready. Mhm. And he will brush his teeth when he's ready to. And there's that balance between okay we need to do this now and. Okay. Um we'll follow your cues. But yeah slowing down That's it. I'm still trying to figure that one out. Yeah, very much a type. Go go go. And I. Yeah, maybe I'm pushing him a little too hard sometimes, but yeah, Sarah's a good reminder. Like, okay, he'll do it. Yeah, just just let him do it. You don't have to ask him multiple times. He'll get to it. Yeah, but it took me a while to get to that too, with him. It's like, oh, well, we can't both not be there. Yeah, that's that's what you guys are a good team. One person is approaching it one way or the other. Person is kind of like counterbalance to it. Right? Slow down what you need. Yeah. And that's hard in the like adult go go going world. Everything is deadlines. And be faster and get these ten things done and yeah, yeah, yeah nothing quite like that. That makes our students put the brakes on. Well, that's the thing. I think you were saying that it's cliche, but I think it's not. I think it's such an important thing for people that don't have experience with people with down syndrome, like the teachers and the E's and the therapists that are new to to the amazing world of down syndrome. Is that you? They will get it done, but you have to give them time. Like, there is a reason why we're saying that it's not only a personality thing, but it's how their brains process. This is how information is processed. You have to. If you understand that piece about Ronin, just imagine the places that you can go, right? So instead of pushing him like, let's understand how he works. And so I think it's a really good a really good thing to. Yeah, right. The other thing that he's taught us early on, and this is where we really found a, um, a breakthrough with Ronin was that he has something to say, but he doesn't always have the words to say it. And so just giving him other means to communicate or show us or tell us in his own way what he's trying to to get across, I think, makes him feel more heard and understood. It took us a bit to get there just because we're, you know, communication, I think, is a big part of our household that finding a different way to communicate was a bit challenging. But, you know, we're there now and we can understand him. His his sister is his translator for sure. Um, yeah. So that was a big part too. Yeah. That's great. Um, so my last question for you is if another family's out there, they've just found out after an amniotic test that they're gonna welcome a child with down syndrome into their family. What is your advice? Just a small question. Just a just a light question to end the podcast. This is the end of the podcast. Like we can keep chatting. That's fine. There's lots that we can do. I like what Sean said. Things are going to be great. Things are going to be great. Yeah, you may not know what it's going to look like or not. It's not what you expected, but it's going to be great. And you know, you're going to find you're going to find challenges and you're going to find ways to get over that, and you're going to find really wonderful things as well. I think it's a mixed bag of things. It's a variety pack. Yeah, it's a combo a combo, a. Combo a oh yeah. about that. And um don't just keep encouraging. Mhm. Yeah yeah yeah. Just the same advice that was given to us very early on by a, a wonderful physiotherapist, um, who's actually the reason why we came to DSF. Because she really she said if you can get she was the one who talked about Berwick and she also talked about DSF. She said if you can get, um, into anything, any kind of program, make sure you just jump into that literacy program at DSF and then you'll know. You'll know that's where you need to be and everything else will follow. Um, she's the one who said, keep pushing. Make sure to, um, make sure to, um. Encourage. Encourage participation. Yeah. Your child and encourage. Ronan. Um, sitting on the sidelines, they'll get used to sitting on the sidelines watching. So give them the opportunity to try and keep trying. Yeah. There you go. Perfect. Great ending. Thank you. Um, well, thank you so much for joining us. I know that these episodes are some of the ones that we get asked about and talked about all the time from other families and also clinicians and teachers. I feel like whenever we get practicum students, I tell them to always listen to the family spotlights, because every individual family's experience is unique, and it just gives you a really good insight into into the person you're supporting by listening to it from the people that know the child the best, which is the parents and the family. So thank you so much. We really appreciate you joining us this season. Thank you for having us. Yeah. Thank you.