John’s Crazy Socks

On the Season 11 finale of The LowDOWN: A Down Syndrome Podcast, John and Mark Cronin give us the lowdown on John’s Crazy Socks.

Transcript

Thanks, Danielle. On today's episode, we will be joined by a father son business duo who have taken the world of apparel by storm by starting a company that not only has a loyal customer base worldwide, but is making a difference in commitment to giving back. Today we are speaking with John and Mark Cronin. They're a father son duo, co-founders of John's Crazy Socks and Abilities. Rising. Together, they're spreading happiness and redefining inclusion through joyful business, storytelling and entrepreneurship. Their talks ignite change, celebrate ability, and show what's possible when we lead with purpose and believe in everyone. Welcome. Welcome, John and Mark. Great to hear. Have you both here with us? Thank you so much. I really appreciate all your get excited, Marlowe. We are so happy to be here. Thank you. We appreciate you inviting us on your show. Oh, it's very, very much mutual. We are delighted to have you guys in the grand tradition of the low down here. We're going to start with some secret questions from Hannah. Okay. You guys, are you ready to have some fun little secret questions for you? Oh, I'm really excited. Thank you. Okay, great. All right, John, I'm going to ask you first. Okay. What's your favorite way to spend a day off? Um, when you're not working, what do you like to do? I, I really love dancing. Singing and. Yeah. And and I, like, uh, compete in the Olympics. Oh, yeah, I got, I got a movie, and I like, uh. Oh. My favorite part. Yeah. Uh, with my dad. Oh, yeah. You like. Oh, this is true. Road tripping. Fantastic tripping. Great. Oh my gosh, John, I feel like your ideal day off is just like mine. I also love to go to the movies and hang out, so that's awesome. Um, John or Mark, what about you? What is your favorite way to spend a day off? Uh, well, you know, there are some good, healthy things. Like, let's go for a hike. Uh, let's wander. Um, uh, you know, I agree with John, road trips were always great. Um, yeah. Uh, plus, uh, I'm a big movie fan as well. Um, and lots of reading. Uh, right now we're doing as, uh, my wife and I are. We're reading Ulysses aloud choices. Oh, fabulous. Cool. That's my name I knew out there. Oh, that's right, that's that's part of your middle name. Oh. No way. Oh, okay. That's kind of a cool fact, John. Ulysses Chrome. Wow. Very cool. That's such a very, like, formidable, like, middle name. Makes you sound so strong and awesome. Nice, John. Uh, okay. Question number two. Um, what is your favorite, uh, emoji? So if you're on your phone, on the computer, what emoji do you like the most? Oh, my favorite emoji. Um, my favorite part. Yeah. Could be mercy the poop. Oh, I knew he was gonna say I had a feeling that's what it was going to be. You can take the boy out of junior high. You cannot junior high out of the boy. Uh, there's just something about that emoji, though. It's so funny. Right, John? It has, like, it's poop with eyes. Why wouldn't you want to use that emoji? Okay, I love it. Uh, you love it. Hey, you know what? That's great. Um, okay. And then our last question for both of you. Would you rather go to a concert or go to the museum? Oh. Oh, my. Oh a concert. Ooh! Who would you see? Who would you see? Oh, I really don't go see Beyonce. Beyonce. Beyonce. What a show. Yeah, well, I love a good time in a museum. And you visit museums? Natural history museums. Museums? Yeah, exactly. I would take myself to a concert. Oh, yeah? Well, also Beyonce. Bob Dylan. No, I would love, um. In fact, I have traveled around following Bob Dylan on tour. Uh, and, yeah, I could do that. Or at other short, cranky guy Van Morrison. Wilco. You know, uh, things like that we go to. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Super fun. Very cool. Okay. Well, thank you both. Um, it's just so nice for our listeners to get to know you a little bit more. Um, let's dive into our topic. Are you ready, John? Oh, yes. All right. Okay, so I'll ask Mark a question first. So, Mark, as a dad, how did you feel when John proposed starting, you know, a business together? Like, what challenges were you anticipating at that point? Well, I thought it was very cool. Um, I'm an entrepreneur. I've started and run, uh, a series of different businesses. Um. I have three sons. John is the youngest of the three. I love the fact that one of my sons had this entrepreneurial spirit. And it turns out, you know, this is one I could work with. Um, yeah. And. Yeah. So I was excited about it. Um, and, and, you know, John is a serious person. I was you were intent. Um, many people wring their hands and worry. Oh, what could go wrong? And how hard is this going to be? Not John. He was like, we're just getting this done. Absolutely. But we started just by testing the idea, uh, and tested. Well. And then here we are today, right? Yes, yes we did. That's pretty cool. Yeah, we could tell you that whole story, but, uh, you know, we'll see what that's. Yeah, we would want to hear. Mhm. Yeah. And it's great I like that John. Why did you choose socks. What was it about socks that you thought would be super cool to design I really cool uh I, I won my first design. Well no not your favorite design. White socks, Sox, White Sox, white Sox. Okay, um. White Sox. It's fun. It. Yeah, it. Yeah. And it only let me be me and and and and my my dad and I try around look for those Sox. It is really fun. He wore crazy. Yeah. Like his whole life. Yeah. He said we were looking for these Sox. We'd find little stores and things, and, uh. Yeah, he would wear them. And, um. John has a very definite sense of style. You have very style. It is, uh, a little idiosyncratic. Uh, he picks things up, you know, in advance. And there would be times he would be wearing an outfit and he'd have his socks. And he has a rationale as to why he's wearing everything. It may. Yeah. So anybody else. But it makes sense to him. Yeah. Yeah. And then it will be those times when your brother would come to me, I can't. I can't say. You can't let him go to school like that. I also as if I am a cloud. I just go with him. Right. You lay out your clothes as I did last night. And when your brother would say that I had your back. And what do you say? He's not here now. He's not the fashion. You are not the fashion police. That's right. John, I really like what you said. It allows you to be different, right? There's so many different ways that you can wear socks, different colors and different designs. So it's such a great choice that you made. What's your favorite sock design that you have created? Yes. Um, my favorite sock I did, did it. Who I am, um, that I created a diamond room, silver heel socks and a really good socks. And my faith on the sock you face on the sock. If you design this box, you get to put your face on it. Huh? Oh, yeah. Just a face. You really do. Yeah. That face deserves to be on everything. Right, John? Yeah. Everyone needs to see it. Yeah. That's awesome, I love that. I love that you're so enthusiastic and you have such great ideas. So I think that's why everybody loves your product, too. Awesome. I have a question for Mark here. Um, Mark, you've spoken before with Congress and the UN about employment rights for people with different kinds of abilities. And I'm curious what changes you would like to see in terms of workplace inclusion? We want to see more businesses and organizations employing people with different abilities. Um, we want to make sure people are paid fairly. So we want to eliminate the subminimum wage. We want people to be able to retain more of their Earnings. Yes, we'd like for people not to have to face a choice between maintaining their benefits, particularly their health benefits and working. Mhm. This is particularly an issue in the, in the States, where there are relatively outrageous limits on how much money a person can have if they want to maintain their health benefits. Um. Yeah. It's. Yes. We. Outrageous. Our colleagues are forced to choose between working more and maintaining their benefits and. And there are two types of benefits. Right. There's a cash benefit. Mhm. And then there's health insurance. Mhm. I understand from a public policy viewpoint of well the more you earn the more we'll reduce that cash benefit. It's the health insurance that matters the most. Mhm. Absolutely. No longer offer that. And people worried. If I lose that job, I'll lose my health insurance. So that's what we need to be able to support people. Mhm. Oh, absolutely. Um yeah. There's a there's a lot of work to be done. And I think we can all say that we appreciate your efforts in speaking to governing bodies about these needs and making them very clear. And I would encourage anybody else listening, especially those who are entrepreneurs, to bring their evidence forward, um, in support of employing people with different abilities. Absolutely. We, uh, we have become, I guess you'd say, like evangelists. Uh, we travel country, uh, we've traveled across the US, Mexico, Canada, uh, speaking to organizations about the benefits of hiring people with different abilities. Mhm. And, and yes, I'd speak to other employers that are out there, Yeah, we we're very fortunate. Our business and the attention it has given us has given us a platform and people will listen to us. That creates an obligation on our part to speak up. Want me to tell that story? Yeah. Dad. About. You know, we have a good example of this. I would love to hear it. Uh, we were down in Washington, DC. We usually go to Capitol Hill twice a year, and we were down. In fact, on this particular day, we were testifying before the House Small Business Committee, and we got a call in our office from a customer in Houston who said, you know, my mother works on Capitol Hill, and she's a big fan of John's. Do you think she could meet John? And our colleague said, well, here's Mark's cell number. Have your mom text her information. Who was mom? I need to Pelosi. See Nancy Pelosi. No. Well well well, yeah. In our country, in the US, we're in a bad way too often now, if we disagree with somebody, we vilify them and we lose the humanity of our elected officials. So I don't care where you are in the political spectrum. Nancy Pelosi at her heart is a seven is an 80 year old Italian grandmother. So we go in to meet with her. And she was so warm with you, right? Yeah. Taking photos and smiling. And she took out pictures of socks that she gave to former President Bush, Bush, George H.W. Bush, Bush the elder, because John had somewhat famously become sock buddies with the former president. Yes I did. Well, all this was warm and nice. But then we had that opportunity, and that creates an obligation. And when we were done with the photos and the handshakes and the smiles said, but Miss Pelosi, we have to talk to you about eliminating section 14 C of the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 that allows employers to pay people with a disability less than minimum wage. And we had people in this country being paid as little as $0.05 an hour. Mhm. Um, and she brought her policy people in and we spoke about that and we spoke about the benefit issue. Um, because you just have to keep pushing. You got to keep pushing and you got to take that chance when you've got it. That is an opportunity that most people don't have. And it's very heartwarming to know that you took that chance and that opportunity when it was there. And it's and it takes a lot of courage too, because it's, you know, it's you're in a space where you are, you know, the feeling of being, I'm sure on Capitol Hill with all these politicians like it can be intimidating, but it's so great that you took the opportunity to advocate and what a difference it will make. I wouldn't use the word courage up now. I'm a big, sappy, sentimental fool. So sitting next to my son testifying in Congress was a bit overwhelming to see what he was able to do. But when it comes to talking to people, well, I'm too old to care. And John has no guile. John is going to attack people the way they are as people. And we've been very fortunate to meet a lot of famous and powerful people. And John just takes them as they are. Um, yeah. I have, you know, another anecdote about you. We have lots of stories. Um, we were speaking once at a town hall session for the New York office of e y. They used to be called Ernst and Young. Yeah. Uh, there were 5000 people there that day, and we're in, uh, the green room waiting to to go on. And lots of people were in there milling about, chatting. And then the door opens and their worldwide CEO comes in. Now E has 300,000 employees. And when Carmine entered that room, it was as if God himself had descended on the entire room. Everything changed. Yeah. How quiet they were all looking over at Carmine. Because, wow, this is the worldwide CEO. Everybody except John. John had met Carmine before, and he just looked at him and said, Carmine, how are you? He comes up and they're hugging and they're talking. Well, everybody else in the room is like, who is that guy? What's going on? How could he talk to him like that? But Carmine wasn't his power, you know. Powerful man. To John, it was just. Here's a guy I know. Right. Yeah. Good like that. Like that. John, I have a question for you. Yeah. You are the CFO, the chief happiness officer of your business. And I would love for you to tell us what does a regular day look like for you at John's? At John's crazy socks. Um. Oh, I my day, uh, I, I, you know, I do videos. I do, uh, I have it out. I have it on orders. Packing orders. And you, uh, I speak engagements, podcasts, and I do dance all night. Dance party every Tuesdays, 3 p.m. and design socks. Socks? Um, you meet with visitors, He says he give tours. Tours. I out? Yeah. You take the comments. Hey, John is like a one man show. John is listening to things he does. You know. Yeah. The truth is, John, your day varies from day to day. There's no set routine. Yeah. Um, because he does so many things in our days. Change. Yeah. Got to be quite flexible then to meet the challenge of the day. Yeah. And I think that. Yeah, I meet what I need a beautiful woman. Oh, you're looking for a woman, too, right? Well, there's. Well, some guys learn how to play the guitar to meet women. John started a sock company. Hey. Yeah. The right woman for you will respect that and be very excited. Totally. Well, it's really great to hear that you're so involved in doing so many things and that the show is very humble and also takes out the garbage. I mean, wow. You're just in there. John is, uh, very hard working. They they used to say that James Brown was the hardest working man in show biz. John is the hardest working man in sanctum. Um, yeah. One of the things he does is we we start our days with a 915, uh, daily briefing. It's a 15 minute meeting. Yeah, yeah, I like that. You know. Mhm. Left hand. Right hand knows what's going on. Uh, the agenda is very simple. Yeah. Everybody go. We go around, everybody shares a victory they've had in the past 24 hours. Something positive. And then what are you getting done today? Where do you need help? John runs those meetings. Don't be late. He will kick your butt. He'll buy it and stay on topic. No going off? Yeah, I know, because he chastises me on a regular basis. John knows how to run a meeting. I do. Right. You're just keeping everybody on track, right, John? It's a business you don't have time to waste, right? I did, and and I, I, I, I, I like it, I, I keep my dad on the street. I keep me alive. Keep him in line, keep him in line, keep him in line. Good for you. This is how you've come, where you are. This is how you run a big business, right, John? You got to keep your people in line. But with positivity, that's what I'm hearing, is we're focusing on the victories and helping each other. Love that. And you're setting such a good example because you're such a hard worker yourself. So everybody else wants to follow your example, right? So you're inspiring others. Yeah, it's really cool. And I might even come through it. Is your dream come true? Yeah, that's a lot of work. I'm so happy to hear that. What would John do? How would John react? Uh, that's a guiding principle for us. Yeah. What would John do? I weigh myself because I am, I am right, I born this way. You were born this way, right? You were born this way. Yeah. Um, Mark, you've mentioned, you know, the importance of taking action over perfection. And how has that mindset kind of influenced the business decisions that kind of come across for John's Crazy Socks? Um, let's not overthink things. Let's get things done. Um, that's how we got started. Yeah. Right of John wanted to do that. Within two weeks. We had set up a website, got some inventory, started marketing, the early marketing. All we did was, uh, set up a Facebook page. Yes, we did. And I would take out my cell phone and we made videos. And who do you think was in those videos that I am? But but here's an example of what I mean of, um, I'll give you two, two examples. One, um, our first full year summer of 2000 was 2017. And we're learning as we go. So we hit the summer and we find out the summer is awful. Nobody buys socks in the summer. So we're trying to figure out what can we do to sell some socks. And, uh, one of the ideas we had was we would offer a sock of the Month Club, a subscription, which is fairly common. People thought that was a great idea. We sat down and within a week we had that up and running. Several months later, I was talking to one of our suppliers, who's also a competitor, because they sell socks directly to consumers. And they had just announced their sock of the month. Ah, okay. And we got to talking and they told me they had been working on it for a year and a half year and a half doing well. We have committee meetings. We had to approve this and that. Okay. Well, for us, we got it going right away. It's now three months later. We had real revenues and we were on our third iteration because of things we had learned. Um, or here's another example. We, uh, we only sell online, but we had been talking about creating a warehouse store, um, that people could come in because people would show up anyway. And we have tour groups coming in, and we've been talking about it for a while and thinking, oh, but we'd have to build this out or that out. And then we finally looked and said, wait a second, we're overthinking this. All we did was move a couple wire racks around, bought a piece of carpet to differentiate the land and got us and got a sign. So creating our warehouse store cost about $100 and we just got it done. And now we have a warehouse store and we get people coming in every day. That's awesome. Progress. It's a big. Yeah. And that's a really big thing too. Like having, like a storefront of some kind. Like, that's a lot of work. But I just love that you knew exactly what you wanted and you got it done. And that's very, very inspiring, actually, that, like, look at how far you've come already, right? So, um, John, how has being an entrepreneur and a businessman changed your life and how you see yourself? Um, what do you say about being an entrepreneur? I love being I love being an entrepreneur. Mhm. You like about it? What do you do? Uh, I really like being a mom, and I, I, I spend my life and, um, I just wanted to have, I just wanted to have a nice big company and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, how how how are put is like. Yeah, I like like like giving like dealing ability right. Creating job job. One day we do a lot of speaking engagements and, uh, yeah, one day we were driving. It was going to be a local. We were speaking to a local business group early in the morning. It's like 8 a.m.. Yeah. You're not really a morning person. No, no. And so we're driving to this and John, as is his way, is going through his calendar to figure out what he was doing that day. And there we are on the road before 8 a.m.. And he wasn't going to get home until about 930 that night. We had a whole bunch of things going on, and he just he's looking at this, and he turned to me and he said, dad, I love being an entrepreneur. Look at all the things we get to do and all the people we, the people we help. Yeah. Pretty cool. Yeah. What a mindset. What a mindset. Fantastic. You know, I was just going to say, John, you know, like Marla mentioned at the beginning, um, you know, we have a lot of adults that listen to this podcast, and we have a lot of adult entrepreneurs at the Dzf that are just, you know, some of them have been in business for a couple of years. Some of them are just starting out. John, what is your what advice would you give to other adults with down syndrome that want to start a business and be where you are? Uh, my my advice. Follow your heart. Follow your dreams. Work hard. And I saw you can do. Yeah. Show what you can do. Creating a business is not for everybody. Um. You got to have a strong stomach. You got to want to do it. You're going to face failures. Um, but why stop if that's what you want to go do it and go and just take action. And we should add, um, we have helped quite a number of people start a business. Um, we've heard from others that we never even spoke to and said that John inspired them to start a business. Yeah. Um, and we offer to to folks that are out there, if you're thinking of starting a business and you want to just reach out to us, um, we'll be glad to talk to you. We also offer coaching that will help you go if that's something you, um, I think a lot of people would love to spend time with you, too. And learn from you. Um, you guys were talking about John and how he runs a business meeting, which I feel like many people could learn from. And I imagine, Mark, that you've learned other things from John throughout this journey that you've been on together. Has there been anything that you've learned that you didn't expect? Well, I you know, it's a cliché that we learn more from our children than they learn from us. Um, some of it, it's not as much brand new. It's as deepens and understanding. So one of the things John has taught me is, is what real intelligence is about. I think the hallmark of true intelligence, and you've taught me this is curiosity. And then acting on that. John is always coming up the learning curve. He's always trying to figure things out. He asks questions, but it's more than just that. He then acts on it. Um, and that's impressive. It is impressive. But what's our mission? I spread happiness. John's always focused on that and thinking about other people. And I want to do that. What do you say are those keys to happiness? I am, I am going Guys here that are required you to for others. So John is always adding another perspective. So here's an example. When we were setting up our warehouse. John was the one that, you know, looked and walked around and said, hey, we have to make sure that people in wheelchairs can get in here. How do we do that? Because he has the imagination to get out of himself and see it from another perspective. So I'm always learning and the advocacy to make sure that it happens. Yeah, right. And so to me and my dad is is saying himself himself, I, I'm losing all the time that it makes my dad. It makes my dad, my dad is a a a a a a a curious guy and I, I, he a way he told me that I'm a curious guy. Does that mean strange? No, no, that. I he was he was very curious to me that he does. Uh, my dad told me, uh, he he told me that I, he gave me strength and, and more importantly, my dad, he always be my, uh, beside me. And he proved me every step of the way and my life. And that for you, it's easy. Oh, you gonna make us cry? I know why you gonna make us cry, buddy? That's such lovely. Yeah. Such lovely words for your dad. It's so great. Yeah. Awesome. John, what do you want to do with John's crazy socks in the future? Looking ahead, what are your dreams? Where do you want to go? Um, My big dream. I want, I want to do right now. Uh, um. My career, having more, having more police, having more of a, like a a doing a great job and and change, change our mind and change our mindset and and and changing our mindset and think about think about community and our think about community and what we have now. It's, uh, we're trying to grow John's crazy socks to reach more people, create more jobs, uh, spread more word. But we're also building on that. So, uh, we're we've created a new organization, uh, a new company called Abilities Rising, which actually has three components to it, three different sets of businesses. One is John's Crazy Socks and we are going to open another business, another store, a gift store where all of the items in the store are made by people with different abilities. Um, and expanding the service that we offer through John crazy Socks and hitting an assembly fulfillment services. Um, we are creating, um, Abilities Rising Publishing, a publishing house dedicated to publishing books by, for, and about people with differing abilities to give them a voice. So yeah, we're going to experiment with ourselves as as the first guinea pigs. Right? You have two books in the works? Yeah, two books about, uh, a book about. I have gone from never coming back. Uh, I can be like, I'll give you all pixels. Okay? Like a graphic novel kind of thing. Yeah. Fantastic. Awesome. My favorite. Give me something fun. I'm lying. Uh. And John's shy. I'm jokes. Oh! Giant book of popular here. Giant book of jokes. But then the third area with, uh, uh, abilities rising is, uh. We want to respond to all the inquiries we get. And we've created a coaching business to help people start a business. Uh, we'll meet them at their needs, you know, webinars or hands on coaching, depending on what people need. And a consulting business that's helping companies that want to learn how. Yeah. So, um, we have a lot going on. Awesome. Yeah. You're busy. Absolutely. But in the best way. How delightful. Everyone. Uh. One thing. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Uh, But he really did. And, um, one book, I just chuck him out. Mhm. Um, uh uh, that is really cool. And I, I speak out loud. Down syndrome out loud. Mhm. Interesting that you. Yeah. Written by Melissa Hart. It profiles 20 people with down syndrome and their achievements. And you're in there a lot of your friends in it and you're in it. Yeah. Yeah. Cover my mug. My famous. Yeah. Oh, bring it up. Yeah, I have it right here. And you know what, John? We. Actually. It's so funny you mentioned that because we're going to be interviewing Melissa I think tomorrow. So she's going to be on this season. So it's perfect. Thank you so much for plugging that for us. Yeah no problem. And and I, I I'll tell you on that uh tomorrow. Tell him I said thank you. Oh you bet we will pass that along. We should give a plug. You bet. Right, people? You should be listening to the Low Down podcast. Yes, Lord. Find out what's really going on. Oh, yeah. Well, that's way better than we could do it. I was just going to say we're going to be out of a job real soon. Marla. I think John's going to take over, and we would be delighted. Yes, I would. Um, John and Mark, when can we expect the books that you're working on? Like in the next year or so. Just be out by Christmas. Wow. Okay. Well, that handles my shopping, so that's perfect. Wonderful that we're looking forward to it so much. And if we will put some links to those things that you've just mentioned so that people can find those really easily from wherever they're listening. We appreciate that. And likewise we'll share this podcast through our social media. Right. Yeah, that'd be great I love it. And come back and visit us again I again. I remember, I can't remember how long ago it was that you guys came to to visit us at the Dzf. And I remember that day when we had all of our students that are now adults that were just in awe of of you, John, and just hanging on every word. They were so inspired by you. So thank you for doing that for us too. That made a big difference for a lot of our families. Yeah, we'll go visit. Come, come hang out. I love it. Can we do that? Oh, I just put the idea in your head now. Sorry, dad. No, we have we. Like I said, we do a lot of speaking engagements. And next week, two weeks. Uh, we're in mobile, Alabama. Mobile. And then we go to Boise, Idaho, Boise, and then Indianapolis and new Jersey with Morgan Stanley. Sandusky. Sandusky. Sandusky, Ohio. And Worcester, Massachusetts and Baltimore, Maryland. Yes. We hit all the. Wow, what a summer. What a summer. You said road tripping. Wow. I had a really cool bike since dusty that I will speak against me right in one in a water park. It's inside a water park. Oh, cool. I don't know if you if I told you this yet. You have to give you a talk. Wearing a bathing suit. With the fine print. You didn't read it, John. They said they would pay extra. Oh, my goodness, this is amazing. All right, well, thank you so much, John and Mark. It is. We were so excited to talk to you. And this it was so great, so inspiring. I know that people that are going to be listening to this episode are going to be so inspired and, and want to start their own business, right, and work on the business that they're that they already have. So thank you for your advice. Thank you for your wisdom and for sharing your experience with us. Well, thank you so much for having us on. We appreciate it. Thank you. And for for those of you in the audience, particularly with down syndrome or different abilities, we need you. We appreciate your patience as you wait for the rest of us to catch up. Uh, but we need. Yeah, we need you in our workplaces. We need you in our schools. We need you in our communities. You have experiences and skills that are valuable. We need you. Yeah, and couldn't say it better myself. Go ahead, John, close it up. Close it out for us, buddy. And are we doing now? And I, um, I, I want to say happiness we are seeing right now. You can change the world. Yeah. It's going. You already are the world. You really are changing the world. Awesome. John will tell you we're a couple of knuckleheads. Yeah we do. And all we want to do is change the world. The world. Beautiful. Thank you so much, you guys. We really appreciate it.