S7 E08 - The Weakest Vlinx

On this latest episode of Too Hot For TV, Dylan is joined by Mark Harrison to talk about Doctor Who game shows. Together they traverse Dr Who themed episodes of The Weakest Link and Never Mind the Buzzcocks, before taking a look at the Big Finish audio Power Game written by Eddie Robson and featuring the Fifth Doctor, Tegan, Turlough and Kamelion.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Doctor Too Hot for TV.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

Welcome back to Doctor Who Too Hot for TV. We are the podcast that looks at all things Doctor Who Extended Universe. Today I'm joined by a brand new guest on this version of the show, although he has been on the non-Doctor Who version. It's Mr. Mark Harrison. Mark, welcome. Thanks for joining me.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Hello, it is actually Too Hot for TV as we're recording this. We're in the we're in the June heat with.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

We are both red, pale males, just soaking in the solar rays that we're just not used to. I'm a Doctor Who fan. I like darkened runes and no mega sunshine.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Yeah, we'll both just look like the cliffhanger of Vengeance on Barros at this point. And cut it now.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

So Mark, since you're a newbie round here, I need to know what's your history with Doctor Who? When did you become a fan?

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Um well we've just recently had the 30th anniversary of the TV movie, so a lot of people have been talking about how they onboarded with that. And with more accurate say I onboarded with the curse of Fatal Death because I was a Mr. I was a Mr. Bean obsessive at that age and in a blackheadder and stuff. So that was kind of my first taste of of Doctor Who, and I sort of promptly forgot about it for a few years until it came back with a new series. And then as soon as the Christopher Exxon run finished, kind of like the rest of 2005, I was just jumping into all sorts, like seeing what get my hands on like second-hand big finish CDs, you know, like DVDs from the local library, uh, target novelizations. I found out recently I'd I'd never watched Image of the Fendal. I'd only read the Target novelisations, only when I went through and watched all the stories or listened to all the stories I hadn't seen. I realised that. But yeah, and it's it's fun, hasn't it? The new series, fun while it lasted.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

I mean, 20 years is a good innings, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:21

It's it is a very good innings, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

The Doctor W fans love and moan about these things, and you look at like any other TV programme that started in 2005 that's still going. I can't really think of any.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Yeah, they're they're around like called a midwife forums looking at Ellen Skelton's holiday pictures on Instagram and wonder what this means for the production of the Christmas special.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

I I'm always very jealous of people that have found a little bit of the show that they've not watched or they've they're saving something. Because I did it when quite young, like I just had to do it. I think if I was getting into it now, I'd be a bit more selective, but I I would I long for a new bit of old hood that I've not seen. But unfortunately, my last story was Paradise Towers when I was about 16.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

No. So as I said, so I did watch Imper the Fendal, but I was sort of all over the place. And it's like, you know, I'll save, it's like save a nice bottle, you know what I mean? It's like I'll save one for my my last classic series. And my last one was The Mask of Mandragara. I was like, I realised just just realizing there was a Virgin and Fourth Doctor one I'd never seen, so I thought, oh, we'll save that. And Italian as well, I'll save that as a nice bottle over there. And I watched that on Christmas Eve 2023, and that was it. Doctor Who completed it, mate. As long as they don't make any more, it should be fine.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

I'm already nervous about this circuit breaker thing. They've recorded some new stuff with Joe Martin, and I'm like, no, I've completed it.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

They keep making these multimedia events by accident, don't they? So I'm I just tend to not look at those. There's still plenty of big finish I've never listened to and books I've never read, which is and always nice to listen to this podcast for, like, you know, some some ways into that.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

I mean, you can't do them all, can you? No matter how much I love this stuff. I've just accepted in my life that I will never consume all the extended media. And neither should you, to be honest, because you've got to get out and like talk to actual people and things like that. So, what is your relationship with the expanded media?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

As I say, just kind of bits and bobs, just because seeing the TV movie earlier, and just kind of catching up on that score because a lot of other people watched it. I was six when I was on, so I kind of caught up on TV movie and then right. This is the most recent Doctor other than Ekaser. So I kind of like dipped into it, but it was only like little bits and bobs like secondhand CDs I could get off eBay. So kind of bits and bobs of that, and then in lockdown I listed to a lot because there were a lot of them available for free on Spotify. So while I was working from home, I just had lots of uh Colin Baker audios on that I've never heard before. So yeah, as far as the expanded media goes, it's just much more cherry-picking. It's more like where I was in 2005 with the classic series, the TV show. It's just kind of cherry-picking. And but with this, I'm never gonna do a thing where I sit down and go, right, I have to listen to everything.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Yeah, fair enough. So why don't you tell everybody what you have chosen or we have chosen to talk about today?

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Um, well, I'm also a quizmaster at large, as well as being a doctor fan. So you can't just be a Doctor Who fan, it turns out. Not unless you're Benjamin Cook, you know, you have two other things. But I'm a quizmaster at large, and so what I thought we'd do is because I've I always remember these, you know, the kind of the peak of the Imperial phase, if you like, it's the new series. I remember these quiz shows from late 2000s. So I brought in The Weakest Link, the Doctor Who Special, and Nevermind the Buzzcocks, the Doctor Who Christ was special. And also, you were saying, like, well, is there anything else we compare it with? And I thought there must have, we've just talked about the sheer volume of stuff, big finishes done. There must have been a quiz show style story at some point. I'm surprised it was as as recently as it was, like it's quite recent story. This Power Game by Eddie Robson, Fifth Doctor story. I'm surprised there wasn't like some not very good Gareth Roberts one from like back in the day that generalises about you know format and isn't fun to listen to.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

The weakest link Doctor Who special was broadcast on BBC One on the 30th of March 2007. Now, news at the time, the Manchester exhibition Doctor Who Close Up was opened. Both Derek Jacobee and John Sim were cast in Doctor Who in uh unspecified roles. I wonder what they could have been. It was revealed that human nature had been adapted. The Infinite Quest was announced, the animated story that formed part of Totally Doctor Who. There would be a fourth season, and Big Finish announced their new Big Bad, the Virons, who were going to take the audio realm by storm. While British Tabloid The Daily Star reported that Britney Spears has been approached by the Doctor Who production team to play a clone race of sex mad aliens.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah, there are some fab bullshit stories about Doctor Who. And that's, you know, as we said, the Imperial Fairs, you know, it's in the way the sort of the way you would get like reporting about SOAPs is the way you get reporting about Doctor Who.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Yeah, and anything would make the headlines. They'd be scouring Galafrey Bass or Outpost Gallifrey, whatever it was at the time, for just fan speculation. My favourite one around series one was Norman Lovett was playing Davros at the end, and they'd just gone bulk eye.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Yeah, you know. Basically, anyone can edit IMDb, or at the time anyone could. I don't know what it's like now, but someone added Norman Lovett as Dav Ross to the IMTB episode list. Apparently, it's a joke, and it just got picked up.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

I love that. I mean, it was that that forum was just that the spoiler section was like crack back in the day. It was just like all the rumours and gossip and untruths a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Our home, our wisdom's childhood. Oh poor Scalafrey.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Other releases at the time, from Big Finish, we had the Horror of Glam Rock featuring the Eighth Doctor and Lucy Miller. From BBC Books, we had Made of Steel. On DVD, we had Torchwood Series 1, Part 3, those lovely vanilla releases that nobody's got anymore. The Web of Fear episode 1 was repeated on BBC 4 as part of its London Underground night. And I'm sure we all remember this story. Tony Blair Regenerates was first broadcast, which has got its own TARDIS wiki page. It's just a scene from Children in Need, where Tony Blair regenerates into a Tory, probably. And uh Smith Jones was first broadcast on BBC One, and the comic strip was The Warkeeper's Crown with the Tenth Doctor and the Brigadier. We're not quite at the point where there's loads and loads of Doctor Who merch out there, but there's there's a fair amount. I do wonder what happened to all those vanilla releases. Like, you don't even see them in charity shops or CEX anymore. Are they in a landfill, like just like four layers up from like Florida D?

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Could be.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Hosted by Anne Robinson, the Weakest Link is a quiz show where contestants answer questions and bank money against the clock, with the prize going up with longer chains of correct answers. Only money banked is carried over, and at the end of each round, players vote off who they think is the weakest link in the chain. In this Doctor Who celebrity special, K9 is the first voted off. John Barrian and Noel Clark joke about having a threesome with Anne, and Camille Kaduri rallies to win £16,500 for charity. Can you remember when you first saw this? Did you see it when it first broadcast or did you pick it up later?

SPEAKER_01 9:41

So I remember this was on, the first time it was on was the day before Smith and Jones, so this was the Friday night, and I was well, we watched, you know, me and my family watched The Weakest Link. Anyway, we still it's sort of carried on tea time quizzing. Like my my my dad and my brothers are still at home watching Pennsylvania Chase and stuff nowadays. But yeah, The Weakest Link is a format that's always struck me that Daleks didn't have to change to adapt to their own grim designs. It's a quiz show for bastards. It's a show that inevitably its format, you know, voting people up each round means that the two worst players are always gonna gang up on the stronger player in the final. And there's one more round of cash builders like, would you rather have him here and more money or them not here, one of us might win? Which I think happens here as well. But yeah, I remember seeing this and um not yet being of the age where you know these brand tyrants uh can make you cringe. And they sometimes do, but um going back to I don't think I was quite prepared for oh times have changed by the very first two contestants that we get on this. When it kind of goes down the line. Should we go through who's on this? Because it's it's it's I think this was kind of must have been recorded after series two. It's a very series two heavy lineup that you get some regulars but also some guest stars.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Yeah, there's some very exciting names and some people you sort of forgot were Ever in Doctor Who, aren't they? Yeah. So yeah, let's let's go through it. So obviously, number one, John Barriman, Captain Jack Harkness. He's not in the public favour anymore. He's cancelled but not quite cancelled. He still shows up on channel five and things like that, right? Yeah. Next.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Noel Clark. Um Oh, oh, hello, yes, I forgot you were in this. And um, just them two on the end, just so the naughty kids sat together in this really because at different times, 2007, man. Look at where both of those actors are now. Would they now brought to Doctor Who Quiz special where there are so many jokes about two of them both having sex with Ann Robinson at the same time? Noel Clark making Well, we'll get back to that one yet.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Then we've got Tracy Ann Oberman, semi-cancelled by Doctor Who Fandom, but not by society at large.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

I mean, she's cancelled by me in my house because she wrote the big finish audio of Five People You Kill in Middlesbrough, which when they announced her, I was they've done a big finish in Middlesbrough, they're doing a Doctor Who in Middlesbrough. And then it just turned out to be this, you know, it'll be worse if Corbyn was running the government during the pandemic, wank fantasy for some centrist dickhead.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

So uh fucking yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

If you ever want me back, if you ever want to really hear me cross, let's get back onto the Middlesbrough big finish at some point.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Oh, absolutely. Consider yourself booked. Shit. And then there's David Tenet, Doctor. At the height of his powers, like there's a that the audience, which I'm assuming is a mix of normal people and Doctor Who fans, like he is I mean, is he the biggest star on television at that point? Quite possibly. He's getting there.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah, maybe not at that point. I think it maybe solidifies obviously after he left Doctor Who, but he keeps he keeps coming back to it, doesn't he? Yeah, but certainly he embarrassed him and then the biggest cheers from the fans and the audience.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Yeah. Then we've got Andrew Hayden Smith again. You forget, he was he was big in season two, never never to return. Uh, I used to have a mutual friend with him, and they told me that he was very annoyed that he wasn't invited back for the stolen art.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Well, that would have been something. And he's put his name in the opening titles as well. Six names and then Andreden Smith. Camille Kajuni, Jackie Tyler is next up.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Yeah, always a pleasure to see her. And then we've got an icon. It's Nicholas Briggs. Nicholas Briggs. There he is. Before, like, Doctor Who fans, I think, feel a bit overexposed to Nick Briggs because he was he he used he used to do loads of conventions and he was everywhere, and obviously the Daleks are in everything for Big Finish, does that? Yeah. So I understand why people feel like that. But to the general public, like the general public A don't know who he is, but it I always think it must feel like quite a fun novelty for like non-fans who are like, oh, that's the man who does the Dalek voices.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Uh next up it's uh David Sennett's future rivals co-star, Claire Rishbrook, who was an impossible man at the certain fit.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Yeah, I mean what literally when the camera landed on her, I was like, who? And then I was like, okay, this does make sense. And then finally we've got K9 voiced by John Leeson and operated by Matt Irvine. Matt Irvine was in the studio in his ill-fitting clothes, looking like he needed a wash.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

I mean, we'll get to it, but it's pretty much standard operating procedure for having K9 in Doctor Who things this episode.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

It's a great liner, and I'd forgotten who was in it for better and worse. I remember watching this when it went out because it was I would say for the whole of the Eccleston and Tennant era, I was in this sort of fever dream of like Doctor Who's back and it's massive, and I had to watch everything that was remotely Doctor Who related. So totally Doctor Who, the Sarah Jane adventures, whatever they whenever somebody showed up on something, and then like you suddenly realize, oh no, it's back, and actually like I don't need all this stuff in my life. But at this point, it was still very much like I need to tune in and watch anything remotely because this all this will never last, you know?

SPEAKER_01 15:09

I know exactly what you mean. I I definitely relaxed my grip on totally Doctor Who, really. After a few weeks, I'm like, uh, I'll be alright. Because um, you know, they they released the Infinite Quests as a compiled thing at the end of yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Yeah, I think it was about midway through Matt Smith's first season when I was just like, I'm loving this, and it's clearly not going anywhere. Perhaps I don't need to watch all of Sarah Jane adventures. And I know people love it, but I was 22 or something, and just like a kid's TV show wasn't for me. He says having loved Doctor Who his entire life.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Yeah, but Dylan, you suck what Sarah Jane Adventures, and then look what happened. Sarah Jane went away. Fucking hell, Dylan.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

It was my fault. So um where is Doctor Who in the cultural sphere at this point?

SPEAKER_01 15:57

It's you know, it's covered in the TV Times, isn't it? Like I said, it's it's it's tabloid reports on anything and everything, you know, leaks of various, you know, like and very spurious origin. You know, you you you'll get the sun, but I can't like someone definitely owned up to it in the spoiler section on outports alfre eventually, the the sun printed that Woody Allen was gonna guess star in a Christmas special as Albert Einstein. Someone owned up to it as I sent that in and they gave me some money for the tip. And then they're incredible. Yeah, so that's that's where it is. It's kind of you know, it I don't know that you want to call it the biggest show on TV, but it it's changed TV. You look at a show like this, you know, the celebrity quiz show things have always been there, but not the you you know, you look at how when Eccleson's series went out, the fact when series one went out, competition on ITV was celebrity wrestling, and that was a bit of a laughing stock. You know, there was this this sort of stuff was comfortable, you know, sort of um you know, halfway house to Big Brother contestants and the emerging class of reality TV contestants. Meanwhile, Doctor Who really brings about a wave of like you know, shows like Robin Hood and Merlin and then ITV Primeval and Demons coming out. It really brings back that Saturday night drama thing, and I think that's just so much at the the head of that at this point.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

You know, it we're we're not yet in the phase where you know 13 million people watch Kylie Minogue in the Christmas special, and then the next year even more people watch David Tennant and Catherine Tate. But it's getting there, we're kind of around the midpoint of R T D1 with this, aren't we?

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Yeah. So I guess we've just lost Billy Piper from the show. Yeah. I think for those first couple of seasons, there's always that question mark of will it work without X star? Well, will it work without Christopher Accliston? Will it work without Billy Piper? And I think by sort of season three, everybody goes, it'll work no matter what. Uh and it just sort of builds momentum and sort of gains its place in popular culture.

SPEAKER_04 17:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

And as you say, it was that second sort of golden era of telefantasy. People talk about the 70s, where you know, all those shows like The Tomorrow People and Blake Seven and all that crap. And we had our own crap for the noughties. Our uncle.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Look at all this crap. Primeval.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

I watched all the prime evil, I bought the DVDs, I don't own them anymore. Demons. Because what if it what if it goes away? What if it's not making this crap? One day I'll sit down and watch all the prime evil again and uh go, oh, this wasn't very good. I remember it found its way eventually, but you know, it was all thanks to Doctor Who we got this stuff. We've gone through the guests, but like what are your thoughts on the lineup? Were they right to go everybody from the second season? Should they have dipped into the past of Doctor Who a bit more? Could we have had a a Sarah Jane Smith there, for instance?

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Well, that's interesting. You you have to wonder if they probably did ask Elizabeth Slayden just because she was in series two. You know, we mentioned that Billy's gone. I think she's probably like the main omission out of this. They've got some guest stars in, but they've also got some some regulars. As the lineup, yeah, it's just uh it's just for format's sake, isn't it? You've got to find nine people, is it? I think there's nine of them all together, and K9 on the end for a gag in the first round, just that yeah, you know, with been for charity and all that, if they get a chain of nine correct answers, five grand, you've still got to vote someone off.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

And I like I I laughed at the time and I laughed watching it again, that the treatment of K9 is just in accordance with seasons 17 and 18, just get rid of him early doors. Like, do you know how much it costs to run K9 compared to how much it costs to run Andrew Hayden Smith? Like it's Andrew Hayden Smith isn't good enough breakdown, he'll be fine. I did laugh that like because they have this tomorrow, so they always show their votes, everybody votes for K9. So it's planned, obviously. Like, we're gonna get him in the first round and then we don't want him to break down until it came out. But they have that thing they always do, which is ask people to explain their votes. So they asked him a sense of why have you voted for K9? And there's this awkward, you know, oh, he's the doctor's most faithful friend. Why have you voted him off? It would have been lovely if he just ran like that Tom Baker out here and go, Yeah, you never know what's fucking important.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

I mean, you're right, K9 is more expensive to run because you've got you've got to pay Bob Baker and Dave Martin for the rights to use the character, you've got to pay Matt Irvine, and you've got to pay pay John Leeson. That's three fees. Andrew Hayden Smith probably just did it for a taxi and a chomp.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

If if K9 had won, his chosen charity would have been Bob Baker and Dave Martin. It's for the best, really, they went like this. Who are the best contestants and who are the worst? Ellie Does. It's Andrew Hayden Smith is like surprisingly good, and I'm not saying that as I'm I'm from the North East, man. I'm you know what I'm I'm I'm not saying it's because he's a Jordi. I'm saying it's because he seems the most nervous out of any of them, weirdly. It's like they've all got they've all got sort of that deer in the headlights look about them that everyone has because it's supposed to be that that Anne Robinson is so intimidating, but truly it's it's not that she's intimidating, it's that she'll cut you off and now like we mentioned that it's like she, you know, oh she's got all these one-liners in all the way through, and they're all Doctor Who thiefing this time around, you know. It's like who's fucking sick? No, but it's just problematic every single one. But you know, there's like when Noel Clark's doing the banter about you know, yeah, and I again together, he's like he he starts, he gets it out just about you know, he starts to make a joke about their kids being a chocolate orange, and she just treads hard on that punchline, like with her own thing, and it's like good for one thing, but like it's just it's all it's so awkwardly paced all the way through that they're all as actors a bit deer in the headlights because they don't know if she's gonna cut them off. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Like Camille lasts surprisingly long. I I guess I'm confusing her with Jackie Tyler to a certain extent, but even in interviews, she sort of presents as the the ditzy blonde. And actually, you know, she's quite good. Tenant goes the distance too, and Noel Clark lasts. Quite a long time as well, doesn't it? Is it Noel that wins?

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Uh no, it's Camille who wins. Camille gets yeah, Camille's on the receiving end of a lot of Anne Robinson's banner. The whole thing about the weakest link is that it's that you know new labour nasty era. So it's like, all right, we've we've set the Tories have gone to things that nasty anymore, so we'll be as much of a prick as we want to everyone. It's this it's this era of you know that Kilbury Silk game show is like to share or to shaft, you know. Every game show is about sharing, not shafting, not sharing. So there is that. But it's yeah, uh Camille Winsburg is on the receiving end of loads of like your dumb blonde bimbo jokes. But then as much as any of this is stage, we mentioned the K9 thing already. According to Tardis Wiki, that's most authoritative source, behind the scenes they decided to let the family, the core family of regulars, go through the end. So the reason it's the last four is Noel, Clark, John Barriman, David Tennant, Camille Kaduri, is because they've they've just basically we'll figure out we'll bought everyone else off and leave that as the last four.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Yeah, I suppose if you're tuning in to this, and presumably it gets slightly higher numbers because you've got a bunch of Doctor Who fans watching that wouldn't normally, you're tuning in to see the regulars. You'd be gutted if it was Claire Rush and Nick Briggs in the in the final two. It's like you're tuning in because you want to see David Tennant ultimately.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Exactly. There's that. Talking about the staging of it though and how much any of it is organised, it's you'd think even if even if they'd like you know managed who was gonna go off when in every single round, there's certain things you can't manage. So like it's it should be like really random general knowledge questions, you would think, to each one. But there are questions in here like about the actor's own work, like there's a Casanova question, there's a secret and lies question because there's a which film was Clara Rishbrook's film debut, and that question doesn't land on Claire Rishbrook. So my lowest stakes conspiracy theory about this episode is that the questions are really having digs at Barrowman and Clark. Because Barrowman gets a question about vanity and a question about people only being famous for 15 minutes. Clark gets a question about rotten apples, big fish in small ponds. It's like you know, Gorry, quite we're looking at this to the hindsight of what we know now, but you're like, yeah, you at least targeting this away, you're not asking people questions about themselves. There is also a nice moment that I don't think is targeted at him where Barrowman gets asked canning, freeze-drying, and pickling are methods of preserving what food or skin torn. And he thinks about it for just that bit too long. And I think they inadvertently hit on his skin routine, just canning, freeze-draining, and pickling.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

And obviously, not only does John Barrowman pickle himself, but the character of Captain Jack does as he as he becomes the face of Bo. Do they dumb down the questions, do you think, for a celebrity contestant?

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Absolutely they do. It's it's it's it's one of those abiding things, the frustrating things of watching Richard Osmond's house of games, whether it's in the edit or whether the the celebrities are just a bit so, you know, the amount of time it takes for like the quite simple ones. I think there's an element of like player, they they've editing it so people can play along at home, you know, as that cause the catchphrase, well done if you got that one at home. But yeah, there's um talk we're talking about the strongest contests, it's just off, but you know, one of the early doors outs voted off contests is Tracy and Cyberman.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

And she, you know, she's the weakest link in round two, so fair fork, she gets voted off. But until she reveals when they're doing that, like you know, bus vote chess, she reveals last minute she gave birth 12 weeks before recording. So it's the harshness of it. But again, like K9's probably it might have been a bit of a planned early pass for her as well, you know, as recovering new mother. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Yeah, absolutely. Andrew Hayden Smith doesn't come off amazingly well, I don't think. There's something about him that is he's so fresh-faced, but like he just comes across as a bit of an idiot. Like, I don't know what maybe I just dislike him, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

That's called accent bias, Dela. No, no, no, no, it's okay. No, I know, I know, I know what you mean. He just like I said, I think he comes off as dear in the headlights. I do love that bit where he gets an easy like gimme question. You want to talk about dumping down questions. Whereas he's asked something like the highest primate in the UK is what, a monkey or an archbishop, and he just absolutely breaks down laughing and goes a monkey. It's like obviously not the right answer. Yeah, that made me laugh a lot. But yeah, it's it's there's um questions about Doctor Who, there's questions about things the other directors have been in. Some of the questions Russell T. Davies wrote for Bad Wolf made Ian's questions into this in one of the rounds. Yeah, they mentioned it in Tidus Wiki. So, like one of the one of the maths ones is straight out of Bad Wolf. They don't obviously don't ask any of the like fake made up future sci-fi questions. There's a couple that get cut off because you know, when the the cock finishes and Roberts is like, that's all I've been in pace to read. Questions like, I can't complete the question. So there's a few of those that get caught off. Like, do you know which is a mini quiz for you, Dylan? They start to ask this about the actor who was David Tent's real life landlady. Do you know which unbound big finish doctor this was?

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Yeah, it was Arabella Ware, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Yeah, yeah. So that's one of the questions. They're asking about the big finish of it, but yeah, that's in there. There's a question about an actor who spent time in a monastic order that's definitely about Tom Baker that gets off by the timer. They start to ask about reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. Yeah, it's all in there.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

All the good questions.

unknown 27:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

None of this general knowledge crap.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Yeah. None of this stuff he needs to know. You want to talk about in the for the public sphere, though, it's it's a show where whether, whatever the makeup of the audience is, you can have John Barryman start doing the a cappella Doctor Who theme tune, and they all start nana clapping. I really hate nana clapping on. Yeah, me too. Oh, sure. So yeah. Just shut up, clapping. Trying to listen. It's not normally this, though. It's not normally just humming the Doctor Who thing.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Uh and it's the fact it's John Barriman doing it in his most theatrical, showbiz musical way as well. It's not, you know, if you get Sylvester McCoy doing it, go dum dun dun dun dun dun, and it's gone up half-arse. But yeah, nanoclapping is the worst. The worst possible form of that nano clap is it will be on like Graham Norton or something, and they'll get somebody like Will Smith to do a a cappella rap, and the whole audience will just start clapping along. And I just want to shoot myself whenever that happens. Because they're always out of time as well.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

It's the smallest hills on which I will die here, but it's that impulse of shouting so good, so good, so good, whenever Sweet Caroline comes on, even though that's not in the song. You just want to make a noise.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

Shut up.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

But you know, it's talking about the makeup of the audience. There is, you know, gasps and howls in the audience. First when John Barrian gets wore off, and then when David Tennant gets ganged up on by Camille Kidri and Noble Clark at the end, you know, you you've got rid of the hotties, the fan faves, yeah, the Sage, this 2007 Sage. It is it is a snapshot of where we are, especially compared to when you look at the next thing we're gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Yeah, very true. Do you think we get a real glimpse of their personalities or are they very much in showbiz persona?

SPEAKER_01 29:05

I think that the weakest link is something, you know, specifically as I said, they're I'm gonna keep saying deer in the headlights, but it's just that the you know, the put downs and the the pressure, the time pressure, and that kind of thing, it's it's all a bit specific to that. Like I think any celebrity special of Weakest Link is much the same at the time the way people play it, uh, you know, except occasionally a celebrity will just try to outrageously flirt with Anne Robinson to a absolute brick wall, you know. And we get two of them here. Which two you ask? Well, which two do you think? Yeah, what a surprise.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Best moments, worst moments, anything stick out?

SPEAKER_01 29:46

It's it's a mixed moment. I mean, it both comes both come in the final round for me. I think it's nice that Camille wins after all the shit she goes through earlier. And she does rally, you know, she starts out you know, the rest of rotary and hover, a type of what's guarding equipment. It's a lot more she says spade, as in like rotary spade and hover spade. I think they were in a Doctor Who somewhere. So it's nice that she wins. She wins 16,550 quid for MS charity and children who are carers. And then the worst moment is hover on its heels because it's sudden death. So no losers because he doesn't know the name of face famous racist explorer, Captain Cook. I can say that. He's middle, he's Middlesbrough's hero. He's a fucking racist up for her.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

For me, the highlight is just seeing Nicholas Briggs on real television. That's always an excitement for me. It's like, oh, you've made it Nicholas Briggs. It's like when he shows up in kidulthood. Who is that?

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

It's the dream for Doctor Who fans.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Like a wild Nicholas Briggs saying. Like it's Pokemon Gore.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

I've got a vague memory of Sylvester McCoy being on the weakest league. Is there another Doctor Who one?

SPEAKER_01 30:50

He's probably on another celebrity. They made a lot of celebrity ones. It's very possible that he was on another celebrity edition. As I say, I wouldn't have been scouring the listings if there was another one. They've definitely done uh I know Pointless has had a Doctor Who special, and that's not so much I don't think there's any new series actors on that, unless it's pre-Barrowman being Persona non-grata, and he pops up on there maybe. But I remember there's like like Colin Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant and one of the pairs. I think Sophie Aldrin's Tovessa McCoy get paired together as well. And they've both alternated on, they've turned up on other episodes of Pointers as well. So it's just this thing of the so many celebrity editions of yours now. Like, just remember this thing the other month, Amanda Holden, like has her own quiz show now, and it launched with the celebrity version. Like, we'll do the perhaps later. We'll we'll do the celebrity inner circle first, the real inner circle, and then I'll do some normal people.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

No, I've just had a quick Google. There is another weakest link, Doctor Who. It was done for children in need, and it's got amongst us Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy on it. I imagine it's like 15 minutes rather than the the full hour. I could I could be wrong, but uh maybe we'll come back and do that another day.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Yeah, let's pause Goffman down and come back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Is there much more you want to say on the weakest link?

SPEAKER_01 32:09

Uh it's a horrible new Labour Nasty show, and obviously they've had to revamp it. Much like the other show we're going to talk about. They've it's currently on, they've revamped it, and it's just less shit to people now. There's still the one-liners. And you know, there's a host you guys as a personality as opposed to you know a bit. So that's nice.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

The thing is with Romesh hosting it, like you feel like he's making up the gags himself. Whereas with Anne, you know, they're all in her ear. And as you say, he finds a way to be a bit of a prick, but not make it personal, and so it's a little bit more it feels a little bit more accessible, it doesn't feel like people being bullied on television.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yeah, the Androids in Bad Wolf was always a little bit of an open goal, that obviously appears at the beginning of this as well. But yeah, you know, getting Anne Robinson to voice it is uh gimme remi, how delivery isn't that much, you know. A delivery in this when she's actually doing it is somewhere between our robots and Catherine Tators Lauren, funnily enough. You know, just uh what have you done that for? I'm a baby, you know, sort of yeah, it's it's just that very robotics to cut up kind of delivery. It's why she didn't last on countdown. There's not a lot of like she's she's a bit, you know, she's not a presenter.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

So is this a clanger, a banger, or an average meander?

SPEAKER_01 33:25

It's an average meander, isn't it? You know, it's it as it's an episode of the weakest link, but it's it's fun because it's asks as you said, it asks questions about the important things like Doctor Who. And you know, there's some nightly stuff in there. Up to the point of K9 getting voted off, you could just have that, and it it's much as a skiss for the for children in need. Could have just been like that, it could have just been a scripted sketch thing. Yeah, it's just a nice, it's it's a sort of in that weird space between promotional thing and just the Doctor Who is everywhere of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

It's the same for me, it's an average meander. It's nice to see Doctor Who on its rise to sort of global domination and just the fact that it's current again in people's minds. And I don't think there's any jokes about wobbly sets and things like that. It's really changed how the the the show is seen by the British public, which isn't which is nice. Nevermind the Buzzcocks, the Doctor Who special, was broadcast on the 16th of December 2009. All the news at the time was basically centred around the death of the 10th Doctor. So it was just things about the end of time. Nothing remarkable. We've all seen the end of time, but needless to say, it was everywhere. Other releases at the time. For big finish, we had Secret Histories, which was a Bernie Summerfield story, Iris Wild Time and the Clause of Santa, Plague of the Daleks featuring the Fifth Doctor and Nyssa, An Earthly Child featuring the eighth Doctor Susan and Alex, Death in Blackpool featuring the eighth Doctor and Lucy, Mission to Magnus featuring the sixth Doctor and Perry, and the second series of their Cyberman spin-off. Then from BBC Audio, we had A Sting in the Tale and The Hive of Horror, which is a fourth Doctor Yates and Mrs. Wibsy audio. From Obverse Books, we had The Panda Book of Horror. Online, we had The Advent of Fear, The Doctor on My Shoulder, and A Ghost Story for Christmas, which were all little short stories and things like that. The comic strip was The Crimson Hand with the Tenth Doctor and Magenta. On television, the Dreamland Omnibus was first broadcast. The End of Time was on TV. And on radio, we had two documentaries, The Lost Episodes and Shelved were both broadcasts, which were about the past of Doctor Who, the legacy of Doctor Who. So we've seen there within two years the output of Doctor Who's sort of merch and spin-off has gone from a couple of releases to there's bloody loads of it because Big Finish and other people have realised there might be some money in this now that Doctor Who's pretty popular.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Yeah, I think it's possible that we're talking about David Spinner being the biggest star on Italian. I think it's possible this Christmas is what launches him. There's the launch pad for that because he's on The Idents on BBC One, the Christmas I Dents, he's absolutely everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Originally hosted by Mark Lamar and then by Simon Amstel, Nevermind the Buzzcocks is a comedy panel show where two teams of celebrities answer quiz questions about music trivia. Rounds include Next Lines, The Identity Parade, and the Intros round. The Doctor Who special is hosted by David Tennant, with Catherine Tate and Jamie Cullen on Noel Fielding's team, and Bernard Cribbins and Joe Wiley on Phil Jupiter's team. Tennant makes fun of John Barriman and the Sugar Babes, but not Coldplay. Tate doesn't know anything about Doctor Who, and Cribbins makes a darl it lube joke for the ages.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

We're talking about this in the run-up to recording this. She was saying that like we'd never get a Doctor Who theme Buzzcock special now. I remain astonished that we got one then. But sort of the the Chris the Christmas do, the Christmas night out for RTD one is you know, the Nevermind the Buzzcock Christmas special. You know, this is this is such an outlier for a show, even past like its peak nastys when it had like regular hosts. And you know, it's always been the Ross comedy style of panels show. It's always it sort of comes out with the music press at the time as well, is what I don't like going back to these now. I I watched Nevermind the Buzzcocks at the time and found it funny, you know. It just sort of I liked Matt Pomago from Shooting Stars and you know, even a lot of the music jokes going over my head at the time. Looking back on it now, it's just it's that music press thing that sort of started happening towards the late 90s, beginning of the 2000s that killed off a lot of music publications. That's anime, you know, lad culture sort of thing that's just often dismissive of black artists and pop music and this kind of thing, but ring fences their artists and bands. It's the decline of music magazines, not because of the writers who are still passionate and knowledgeable and interested, but because of the editors with their festival access and their freebies and their promo wankery. And these people are still around, like in it seems to still be around in the industry. I haven't gone anywhere. I would have to say on Divot 10 and hosting this, it's hard to imagine any other guest horse on Nevermind the Buzzcocks loving Coldplay and not getting rusty.

SPEAKER_03 38:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Certainly not getting a button that you know plays bits of fix you whenever he wants to.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

It's something I've had to come to terms with that some of the Doctor Who's our big Coldplay fans. You know, they're not for me.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Jodie Whitaker's a big fan. Peter Capaldi likes Oasis, I forgive him. Anyway, you've got at this point Noel Field in the ever-present Phil Jupiter's are still the regular team captains.

unknown 38:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

But flanked by Catherine Tate, who is fucking hammered on this. Just yes. To me, it seems absolutely hammered. This is like the Christmas party vibe. And then on Phil Jupiter's team is Bernard Cribbins, who you never really normally see on this type of panel show. Like he did a wood-eye lie to you, inevitably, but National Treasure state is secured by how good he is on this, the absolute last place you'd expect to find it. Yeah, even as someone who's a chart artist, as well as an actor and beloved national treasure.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Yeah, it feels like this is the show sort of a little bit past its best, as in Nevermind the Buzzcocks, not Doctor Who. We've had the Mark Lamar era, then the Simon Amstel era, which I loved at the time as well. But you know, you see clips of it now and you're like, I'm not sure it's okay to speak to somebody like this on national television.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Well, the one the one that feather's jokes, fine. But you look back at like the major thing of that that era. I remember watching at the time it being a big thing and laughing at the time, so I was a stupid teenager. It's the thing of uh Preston from ordinary boys walking off because he was reading Chantel of his wife photography, and it's like, right, but there's no joke in that.

unknown 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

What is he supposed to do? Sit there laughing. He's lucky he didn't get the Will Smith treatment, Frank. Well, there's no there's nothing else for him to do in that situation. He just wants to sit and laugh, then my wife's sick. There's no joke to respond to. What's the joke to get? So, you know, there's that, and that was at least when Bill Bailey was still on it, so there's like an element of just serene fucking about silence.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Yeah, this does feel slightly. We talked about dumbing down the questions before. Dumbed down is probably the wrong word, but a slightly more muted version of Buzzcox. And some some of that I think is probably to do with the personalities of the Doctor Who guests. But also, I wonder if there's a slight thing in the back of their mind and the Doctor Who production officer's got one eye over it, sort of going, there will be kids that watch this, so it can't be the more extreme end of uh of Buzzcox.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Yeah, I think you're nailing the head there. I think it's like brand managed to a to an extent, like not less the fact that Davidson has got his fix you button, which I can't imagine flying on any regular edition with any regular guest horse. You know, it's it and obviously there's all the attendants, you know, Doctor Who bits, you know, there's an nude cameo, there's a Dalek cameo, yeah, you know, the the intros around ISA and get clues from the batists, which has like the nude popping out is one thing. I did love just as a visual, I did love the the full breast band coming out of the police box. That was like a really fun way to work that in. It's still got a little bit, it's it's a punction pull a little bit. Like certainly Phil G Purce and No Field and sometimes drag it back to what he usually is. There's like this weird bit where Phil G Purce kind of spins off about the TARDICs having a sex chamber, and like, oh, could you could you fuck a Dalek and all this kind of thing? And Bernard Cribbins kind of saves him by making a Dalek lube joke, just says like don't spot a WD-40. Cribbins is, and I've forgotten, Cribbins is hilarious every single time he opens his mouth than this, like no matter what it is. He's he doesn't say anything if it's not gonna be really funny. Like there's the thing he and he's a bit surreal with it as well. There's that thing early on where North Field and says, Do you want to jog Rain for the boot shit? The show he's coming out with is really good.

SPEAKER_03 41:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

Uh Catherine's, I think, is you know, does send to me on chat shows a little bit like especially Graham Norton where they're handing out drinks, but I really think in this, it's like Christmas party vibes for her, where she's you know talking about not knowing anything about Doctor Who. She has a quite funny anecdote about not recognising Chris Martin when um when they're talking about Coldplay.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

I do think it's something she puts on a little bit for the cameras, but she plays a Ditzy, Ditzy forgetful, oh I don't really know anything. But I don't think like she's a smart woman who's written hit comedies and played Donna with so much nuance and like was able to reach emotional points that I don't buy that that's who she is day to day.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

No, of course, yeah. As I said, my my feeling is just Christmas party, everyone's a little bit a little bit drunk.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Yeah, you've you've also got Jamie Cullum and Joe Wiley on either sides of them. Joe Wiley now popping up in all the the you know, as sort of Doctor Who fan presenter, really, like um the the the crystal D of Radio 2, if you like. You know, she's um yeah, she's kind of across all of that. Jamie Cullum is also here. I feel like Jamie Cullum is one of those artists who would get targeted.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

Yeah, on a normal episode. Yeah, I don't know if he's maybe been on Buzzcocks before and sort of like taking the jokes, so taking his bumps or yeah, he's he's still the odd one out here, I think really it's yeah, he's the most forgettable member of the panel because you've got quite big personalities, and obviously they're focusing on the Doctor Who people. He just doesn't quite fit in with it all. But you know, he he holds his own in terms of yeah, answering questions and stuff. I think it's quite a good lineup, and as you say, Joe Wiley is Joe Wiley is the celebrity fan that they they roll out all the time. And I often wonder, is she a fan or is she somebody that just watches it? There's nothing wrong with that, obviously, but I sometimes feel they're like, We've got a a professional woman who is not unattractive, who watches Doctor Who, she's the celebrity fan that we're gonna use from now on. She's the Toya Wilcox of the naughs when it comes to Doctor Who.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

He's saying they booked her instead of Ian Levine as well.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

Yeah, he's a record producer, he could be on Buzz Cox. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

But arguably never ever should be. Yeah, absolutely. Jamie Cullum, I guess, makes sense as a bucket of, you know, it's this was silk post-watershed, but it is that sense of, like you said, best behaviour. You know, I plays around at this point, and as you say it, kids probably gonna go watch a Doctor Who Buzz Cox thing at some point. Um, but you know, the best behaviour thing, like the you look at the rounds in this, the intros around is always good value for that, but they've added some Doctor Whoey stuff on there. The ID parade sections, which are much more in the vein of the weakest thing, like having a go at people, are much shorter in this than they are in regular episodes. They normally just go to town on these poor actors, they've they've uh rolled out sun next to someone who used to be famous. Like the the gaggers, you know, the one team gets doctor and the medics one team who gets doctor feel good. So it's themed around that very loosely as well. It's the way I write music quizzes when I'm like, alright, here is a like the pub quiz I did last night, I did a round of songs that have tennis terms in them. So Sledgehammer by by Peter Gabriel, but also Shopin Let Me Go by the Tink Tings. It's a little bit tortured, but it it it gives you good mileage to when you theme a music quiz. So of course when it gets to the next lines round, it's just devolves into like knock-knock jokes and doctor doctor jokes, which is nice.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

Yeah, they've ran managed it well, as you said.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Well it ends in the tie as well. Best behaviour, nothing challenging is really gonna happen in this episode.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

I think as a result, it's funny, but it's not it's more like Graham Norton show funny than Buzzcock's funny at the time. Like again, like yeah, a bit more accessible, but like because I remember even at the time not thinking about brand management or thing like that, going, Oh, I can't wait to see Doctor Who people on Buzzcocks, and then going, Oh, that wasn't very good. And it's like, it is good, but it's a safer version of good. And actually, it's probably more in line with what the show is in its current guys. Uh, with is it Greg Davis who does it now?

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Uh Greg Davis, yeah. Yeah. I think Norfield is still a team and captain on it. I'm not sure at all. They may have failed to him out. I know that Daisy May Cooper's on the other team.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

One of the things on how this has changed from, say, like the midpoint of RTT one to this, like, you know, the the finale, this is the quiz at the Christmas party, as far as I'm concerned. Um, the difference of Barrowman not being there, he's definitely been a guest on BuzzCost 4 and laughing at himself and all the rest of it. But this is, you know, much as when this flared up again, the Barrowman thing a couple of years ago, much as you look at that rap video that's sort of the you know, rap as in RAP, the rap party video where they do they do um ballads of Barry and Frieda, but it's about Doctor Who. And there's that thing about David Tennant singing about Johnny B getting his cock out, yeah. And Barrowman doing the big wink at the camera. Like there was a little bit of when this flared up again a couple of years ago, people go, What did David Tennant know? And when did he know it? Sure. It's like he was known at the time that he'd been reprimanded for this, and he apologised for it, and now he's decided to be really weird about it, and he's sort of faced himself out with these things. But in this, he's not there, but he is a punchline. Like it's all jokes about people being sexually harassed, it's where that gift comes from of Tennant shaking his Swiss camera going, Barriman.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

Yeah, like it's had a tiny cultural impact this one episode, because it it spawned spawned that gift that is used to this day. Every time, not just Barryman. John Barriman's name was synonymous in popular culture in England with risque sexual antics from about 2007 to 2009, and it was just something that was known about and people made jokes about, and that's why that that gif exists.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Yeah, and you know, the stuff that's I say it's flared off, the stuff that was known about then, I guess, was implied at the time, but it's more explicit now with power imbalance stuff with him too, and it's like crew members, you can make the case like our actors are always getting undressed in front of each other and stuff, but yeah, that's why he's in this the space he's in. But it is mad that there's just that baroman thing, just it's the amazing legacy of this. I've I once saw someone fully edited into a little like AMV YouTube clip of Bad Romance by Lady Garga, but every time I get into the chorus, it's just him going baroman to the screen of that. So, yeah, that's uh it this was you know Doctor Who branded enough that it was repeated on BBC Two for the 50th anniversary, like a couple of days before. It must have been um a couple of days before the 50th anniversary. The version on YouTube that that I watched for this episode has the continuity, and I'm just saying, and if you enjoy it, never mind the buscocks, you can watch a mini episode on uh on iPlay and just send buscocks fans to go watch Night of the Doctor.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

I'm sure they went over there in their droves, they were like, Who's this Paul McGann guy? Is that the guy from With Nail? It's a really interesting point of the history of the show where it's at its biggest, and the whole nation tunes in to go and I say the whole nation, one-fifth of the nation tunes in to see David Tennant leave the role, and it just felt the show felt unstoppable at the time, and it was bizarre that this programme that had been ridiculed for years and years and years was suddenly so big, and then to see it on something like this at Christmas was just like I can't believe that that Doctor Who has got this big. And it they did other things, didn't they? I'm sure they did like The One Show and other stuff like that, but there was a big rollout, there was a big press tour for Tenant's Last Hurrah. I always remember on New Year's Day when the second episode of End of Time aired, and after Confidential, they aired a trailer for the next series, and uh my housemate at the time was not a Doctor Who fan, but would watch would watch it, and he just suddenly went, Well, what was all the fuss about? It's just the same, like it's just the same guy. I was like, Yeah, yeah, like it's fine. He was like, That was and he was it was a big emotional goodbye, and it's just like, oh, he just looked exactly the same as David Tennant, and that was it.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

Yeah, it's another one, isn't it? Because that does arguably wrong, but like probably more around the world than it does in the UK, like that moment, that like flashpoint in David Tennant and the end of this era of Doctor Who being everywhere, like sort of launches nicely into the next few years, or maybe up to like the 50th anniversary. But it's yeah, stuff like this kind of tails off. Like we we're looking at the midpoint and the tail end of RTD one, like this is the you know, there are other David Tennant panel shows from that Christmas Ever just absolutely everywhere. This one is so specifically Doctor Who themed. That's that's a novelty.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Now, sort of from late Matt Smith onwards, a new series is an appearance on Jonathan Ross, and then later Graham Norton, a couple of radio appearances, and that's all you need to promote Doctor Who.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

You get Russell T. Davis on the wheel, weirdly. Not as a promotional thing, he was just there. He was they just asked him, and do you want to see how the wheel worked? So he went on the wheel.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

Do we have much more we want to say on Buzzcocks?

SPEAKER_01 51:06

Just that I mean, my favourite moment of this is probably, and you know, for me, shows how good Crims is on this. Is there's like a tenant off the auto cube doing a line about a bit of trivia about Kylie and an old bra going to auction for £6,000 and Cribbins just shifts into you want to see it?

SPEAKER_03 51:22

And like then he carries on.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

I can't remember what the line is now, but he carries on the scripted joke and gets to the end, he just turns Cribbins and goes, Your joke was better. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

The MVP is Bernard Cribbins, I think is brilliant. And I really like his interactions with Noel Fielding. If this was a time, a bigger podcast, could be those two having a a podcast together. I'd listen to that all day. And it like it was that era, you know, Buzzcox was big, Dot 2 was big, the mighty boosh was big, and it was just like seeing all these all these things sort of convalesce together and it's just a bizarre cultural moment. A clanger, a banger, or an average meander, what say you?

SPEAKER_01 52:03

I'll call it a banger. I haven't watched this in a while and have found myself laughing a lot. Yeah. As I said, it's weirdly it's that thing of looking and back at all the Buzzcox clips now, and you know, there's still stuff in this, like I said, the TADIS sex chamber rant that's just like doesn't hold up, but it's like the personalities on it make it funny in spite of the format. As much as it's brand managed that it's safe, everyone's on their best behaviour, mostly.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

Yeah, this is a a funny ep this is a very funny episode of Buzzcocks.

SPEAKER_02 52:30

It's a banger for me too. It was great to revisit and to just be in that era again. And also just see Bernard Cribbins, who you know is no longer with us and to remind what a great not ambassador for the show, but just what a great presence he was whenever he showed up on anything Doctor Who related or not.

SPEAKER_01 52:47

Yeah, just in himself, like literally everyone to all ages.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

You know, from whether it's that old Jack Sport thing he did on C BBC after this, yeah to you know, never mind the buscocks. Like at all ages, you're just delighted to see. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 53:03

Doctor Who power game came from Big Finish Productions on the 12th of February 2019. It was written by Eddie Robson, directed by Ken Ventley, and produced by Scott Hancock. News at the time: Doctor Who had returned to South Africa for more filming in the Chibnal era. And Resurrection of the Daleks and Revelation of the Daleks were finally getting novelised after many, many, many moons. Other releases at the time, we had from Big Finish, Missy Series 1, the Fourth Doctor Adventures, Series 8, Volume 2, featuring the fourth Doctor Anne and K9. We had Torchwood, God Amongst Us. From BBC Books, we had the Elysian Blade with the second Doctor Jamie and Victoria, the Earth Adventures Collection, and Doctor Who and the Sunmakers audiobook. The comic strip was Herald of Madness, featuring the 13th Doctor and the Fam. And on DVD, we had Resolution. So we fast forwarded to the Jody Whitaker era for this tale. And 2019 seems seems quite recent, but actually it's nearly a decade ago now, right?

SPEAKER_01 54:10

Yeah, the long 2020 has really fucked up everyone's perception of time. Yeah. It's an odd thing. Yeah. It's it's another one of those things when you name that year questions in pub quizzes. Yeah. People always think it's like they sort of have that, you know, lockdown year as a barrier in the head, like, oh nothing happened in that year. It's like, no, the answer is sometimes 2020. You know.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

Yeah. If you had asked me, I would have said this came out 18 months tops. Okay. But uh clearly that is not the case. The fifth Doctor Teagan and Turlo have lost track of Chameleon in York 1984. Three weeks into their search, Tegan is also abducted and recruited to play The Incredible Power Game, a TV game show in which contestants collect power gems from the alien hostess. The Doctor and Turlo meet Una and Richard, members of a local sci-fi and fantasy group who are obsessed with the show. They learn that Power Game is unlisted in the Radio Times, instead, interrupting programs at random intervals on all four channels. The Doctor deduces that the hostess's comedian in disguise, under the hostile influence of a telepathic energy-based life form on the run from their own people. She abducts Turlo to play against Tegan in the next episode, and the Doctor gives chase to the parallel dimension where she's hosting the games. When the TARDIS snaps back to its own reality, the Doctor confronts the hostess and transmits her plans back to her home planet's authorities, who promptly arrive and arrest her, removing a control of Chameleon. The Doctor and friends teleport back to their own dimension. As they leave in the TARDIS, Chameleon receives a recall signal from his home world.

SPEAKER_00 55:55

Have you ever heard this before?

SPEAKER_01 55:57

No, um, as I said, we were looking for something big finish. I assumed when we were chatting about it that Big Finish would have done something like it. And it's TV game show, and I kind of love what they did with it. That's so rooted in 80s TV game show specifically. Like in the in the making of Eddie Robson talks about um the adventure game, the Krypton Factor, and the Crystal Maze. I did wonder like if maybe the one concession to a younger audience listening to this is the description of the contest is taking turns doing tasks, just as another Taskmaster. It's not a quiz like when, you know, when RTD does the weakest link in Bad Wolf, or even when Chibo has the security questions in 42, you know, it's like a fair couple quiz. It's not a quiz for a game show, which is um, I guess I don't know, I think maybe a quiz with questions would have been easier to do for an audio format and would have added something like playable. But as it is sort of got that in where you have descriptions of the action on those shows, that's an interesting way to approach it.

SPEAKER_02 56:53

Yeah, I'd long given up the Big Finish monthly range at that point. So I'd I'd not heard this before. But as you mentioned earlier, I'm surprised it took them so long to get into a quiz show format because it kind of seems the obvious thing to do. And I really like how they utilize the setup. And one thing Big Finish have been really good at in more recent years is making the 80s Doctor stories sound quite 80s, you know, in terms of the music they use, they go heavier on the synths and stuff like that. And there's there's been a real decision in places to just sort of stylize it a bit more and almost make it more 80s than 80s Doctor Who was in a way. And the game shows or well, yeah, the game show setup here, I think, really works.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

Yeah, the game show jingles, like the power game, jingles and music stings in this are great. Like as someone looking for jingles and music stings for a thing at the minute, I'm envious of how good the jingles and music stings are in this.

SPEAKER_02 57:52

And as you say, you get you very much get the adventure game vibes from it or nightmare. Like those those are the things that that that I think of as these people are sort of tasked to do these uh in like a world that they describe as very quantile, which I think you know is instantly a reference point that Doctor Who fans will get, because non-Doctor Who fans aren't listening to this.

SPEAKER_01 58:15

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

What do you think of the two-episode format of it?

SPEAKER_01 58:18

It's an odd one for me because with Big Finish, you mentioned the the Lucy Miller adventures earlier on when we were talking about stuff that was out at the same time as the Weakest Link. I quite like that. Um it's not my observation, I quite like that Big Finish moves into that sort of 45-minute episode thing after years and years of doing McGann stories that are four-part 25-minute serials. And we sort of have an odd thing with this of like, it's a David, it's a Peter Davison two-parter thing. That it's much like to me, it's the Davison two-partters that were on TV. It's one of those things where the story doesn't really get going until after the cliffhanger.

unknown 58:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:53

What it gives you is as far as our interest in this episode, and definitely my interest in comments to it, is it gives you a lot of these fun details of this game show that's like it's not even in the radio times, it just randomly interrupts that feeling of channel hopping being turned into something at Doctor Who wants to exploit is brilliant. Just the whole thing around it having fans who like randomly record it in the middle of you know the cricket or a war film or wherever it's interrupted. But it's it's built into that because like I'll have the Davison two-parter format when the click of fanger is as good and as striking as like the malice appearing and the awakening. But you know, oh turlo's gone, turlo's been kidnapped is so basic to the point in a story where with three companions being cashed, which by the way, the the turlo shows up in this at the beginning of the story is because they're looking for chameleon who's who's gone missing, they've been waiting for three weeks. This is the turlo of like Warriors of the Deep, you know, the doctor does a three-foot fall into some war, and he shouts, Leave him, he's dead. We have to forget about chameleon, he's definitely dead. There's no way we could possibly find him in this small city in 1984. So there's that's but you know, it's to make a point of crisis is getting stuck in on the game show without the TARDIS and having no choice but to play the game. And because that's deferred a little bit into part two, we don't get enough of the doctor playing the game as I would like.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:12

Yeah, I think you're right, but I I think they were wise to do it as a two-parter, because I don't think there's enough story for a four-parter. And that was Big Finish made that this decision probably a decade ago that Doctor Who stories didn't need always to be four parts. So this this comes on a double CD essentially with another two-parter. I've not listened to that one, but I just think it works so much better. Like, because what this feels like is just a like a little slice of 80s Doctor Who, and it doesn't always have to be the biggest story, it doesn't have to be spare parts or the apocalypse element or something like that. But it's just like we're giving you a bit of 80s Doctor Who. But a lot of 80s Doctor Who drags over four parts, so like I think they were they they're a right to condense it down, and I just think it works really well as a two-parter, even if, as you say, a lot of the plot doesn't really kick into part two.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:03

Yeah, definitely. Like in big finish terms, it's a short trip. But I think my thing would be you could make it one 45-minute episode like those Lucy Miller things, rather than the way this is structured to have a break it in the middle of like Turlo's gone, you know, like to build around a cliffhanger that's not really the cliffhanger in that story, so it's just an odd one. It is in the as you mentioned, it is in a kind of a double feature with another story about chameleon. Um, and as far as I know Black Sither One is a very serious historical story, right? Also set in 1984. So this is kind of written as the you know the darkness and light. We want you know, a lighter story to follow this. And this clip hangers into what another one I've not listened to called Chameleon Empire, just sorry that's trailer at the end of this. Um you can get John Culshaw as Chameleon as being quite central to the story, and I just think chameleon and his character, we're back on K9 again, aren't we? Unworkable props, and you know the terrible tragedy behind that prop being unworkable in the show. But it isn't necessarily a character finally getting their due or anything because he has a definitive beginning and end in the two TV stories who do get with chameleon. But I think more than most companions, he's a playground for writers, and that definitely shows of what Robson does to me. Like this is another chameleon under hostile influence story.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

To the point where Chameleon at the end of the story is talking about this always happens, I'm rubbish made. It's like which is what we mentioned right about in Planet of Fire, we know when he's written out. You know, it's yeah, it it's kind of it it's not reinventing the wheel on chameleon stories, but there's things you can do with a shape-changing robot, like you know, co-op them for a TV game show that only appears when you're really looking for it. That's fun. That's that's box office for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:44

Yeah, no, I I I like how they use the character of chameleon, and it's nice to see chameleon get a bit more airtime in the way that a lot of Doctor Who companions feel overexposed with Big Finish. Chameleon hasn't had that many stories, and as a result, it's it's quite nice to just get a couple more. And we're not the first people to say this, but obviously in the TV show, the the prop was unusable and you know the guy the operator sadly passed away. But it is a shape changer, so like it's good that they utilize the that here. Like, you could get an actor in to play any version, guest character, guest companion, guest cast of the week, uh, which is something that was right up JT's street, so I don't know why he didn't do it. So I have to say, we obviously don't hear chameleons' real voice until the end. And I'm not saying John Coleshaw's taking the piss now, but it is just John Coleshaw's voice with an effect on this time.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

Look, uh John Coleshaw has moved into Big Finish Towers. Um he's find things for him to do. And um, you know, as I said, this I guess it would form a kind of trilogy with these two stories about the surge of chameleon and then you know the travels to his home planet afterwards, you know. You're getting the big series finale type thing that's trailered at the end of this and that's more of him. But yeah, you're right, it is him just doing a do a robot voice. Yeah, okay, great. Anyway, I am John Culshaw. I am not John Culshow, I am oh shit, he's glitching again. Someone banged John Culshow on the head. Or he turns it a blair. People of Britain.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:16

Don't do your bloody Tom Baker again, mate. We've heard it. Ah but yeah, nice to see a bit more or hear a bit more of Chameleon. Even though I think fairly early on, you're kind of like, oh well, the game show's gonna be chameleon having a malfunction or under alien influence. It's a decent enough ride to get to get to that point. What do we think of this alien threat that's taken over chameleon?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

It's kind of this is what I mean about the structure of it. When you're doing part one of, you know, you've got to build up to to an extent, you know, oh, the host says it's chameleon. It's like, yeah, no shit. Otherwise it would be really irrelevant. You know, that Davison has that line about like, I really hope it's the same problem, because otherwise we have two problems. It's like, I think you're safe to guess that this is the same problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

You don't have enough episodes to have multiple problems.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

Yeah. It's got that big finish thing of, oh, look at that person who is wearing this, you know, descriptive, you know, audio drama type thing that's a bit you know, telling rather than than dramatising. But but I love the description of the hostess having a metallic burgundy jacket. That's a lovely, it's a lovely note. And I love the way that she's played by Harriet Kirchhaw, who's done of the big finish story to put at her CV and ranges from Shakespeare to Fireman and Stam, and she's fabbing this. Like she really likes living stuff though, as along with the music and how well that's done. Like I really enjoyed that that style of thing. It's it's not doing a it's lively again, it's not doing temptations to do an android type thing, like uh an Anne Robinson Ice Queen slash robot. You know, so I like that aspect of it. Um and we're sort of on the on track to do, you know, eventually they have to explain what their evil plan is just with the way this story is structured. Um but it does I'll tell you what, I do like it in this. It's a nice thing that. Eddie Robson does with the fifth doctor in Fanfare for the Common Men as well, which I listened to recently. It'll be the villain is doing their, you know, talking thing. And they'll go like, Look, it's no use, Doctor. I know what you're doing over there. You're gonna do this with the thing. And David and Davidson just kind of goes, Oh, that would have been good. No, what I'm doing is keeping you talking so I can do this and he hits them with something else. And that's like a nice you never really get that with the fifth doctor in telly, like that sort of shit housing kind of um thing. I've I've heard Eddie Robinson do it twice now in recent stories, and uh I I like that a lot. Um Davison's far from like the fifth doctor anyway, is far from my favourite version of the character, but like like with Colin Baker in the audios, you get you get other things you can do with that character. That's that's that's nice here. Like I like all of the Fifth Doctor's uh, you know, interactions with the fangirls and fanboys in this. No, not fangirls and fanboys of Doctor Who, and you know, i there's lots of drops along these lines when you get fangirls and fanboys' characters. But I quite like Una and Richards in this.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:04

Yeah, it makes good use of the regular cast and the limited guest cast that you get in these stories now, because it is like I think they're limited to something like eight characters or nine characters now when they're doing something, but they all get their little moments, you know exactly who each of these characters are. They're not people that like, oh, Una's gonna return, Richard and Stuart are gonna return or what have you. It's just like they're very much like your guest cast of the week, and they all say goodbye at the end and they help move the plot along.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

Yeah, and it's as much as it's not, you know, you you get that obligatory gag when the doctor leaves Natardis, you know, saying find some other TV show to obsess over, you know, like the meta winking thing. But it speaks to the 80s of it, that these are fans of a TV show trying to find out everything they can about it by watching tapes and passing tapes around. Like I liked that aspect of it, like that that is something that's in there while you sort of waiting for the plot to get moving in in episode one. And on balance, it's good north of England representation. Like these characters are friendly and passionate and unflappable. And I like that bit where the terrible cover story, the turlo has been feeding them, falls apart, and the doctor says, Right, so by this point you've seen robots and alien game shows, you shouldn't be shocked by anything I say, and they go, Yeah. And he goes, Right, I'm not human and I travel in cyberspace, and they just go. So why is your robot acting like this? It's like, yep, okay, we're moving on.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:30

It's that black orchid thing done much better, isn't it? Of like uh you know just taking to the TARDIS to to show everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:38

To show them around, to show the the police around the TARDIS, and they go, Well, this all seems to be in order, so who did the murder? You know, fuck off anyway. That thing of black orchid, that kind of style of two-part really winds me off.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:51

Yeah, absolutely. But here it's used as a shorthand to go. You get this with the brigadier and other characters in classic Doctor Who, where they've seen loads of stuff, and yet for some reason they still don't believe it could be it's like Scully and the X-files, you know, uh that thing of like, but you've seen loads of this. Why do you not think it's aliens?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:08

Yeah, but have you seen that meme going around that's the opposite of like um Scully sitting the victim was stabbed seven times and moulder throws a file across the table? And it's like, you ever heard of the knife alien?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:20

What do you think of Peter Davison, Janet Fielding, and Mark Strixon here in terms of like, does it feel like the TV characters? Have they moved them on? What are like where are they at?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

I mean, other than the Warriors of the Deep thing, it doesn't feel like the TV characters complimentary. You know, I think that the the bickering, the constant thing that really rubs me the wrong way about like early 80s Doctor Who. About people just I I know it I've looked I sound like a stuck record here, but the thing everyone says about these people don't seem to like each other, they don't seem to get on with each other. I mean it's not in a sparky way, it's just in a shut up, bloody teagan kind of way. Less so I think as it as it goes on, you know. As I think Davison's performance gets about season on season, even if the stories don't necessarily for me. But in this, yeah, you've you've got that thing, you know, the vocal cracks that every actor, and especially Peter Davison, has, you know, like years and years later, but but it gives them some nice stuff to do. I mean I quite like the stuff with Teagan kind of gamely, you know, playing along with the power game before she's you know before it's putting a gun and you know it's getting the plot mechanics type stuff. I think that going, oh, you know, being quite pleasantly surprised she's good at this. I think Tello being an absolute out of his element fish out of water, just making shit up. Yeah. It's like, oh uh, the doctor's my housemate, we live in uh stand behind this wall so I can go get him so you don't see the police box we actually live in. Like, that's fun stuff, you know. Like the the actual thing of oh, why won't they do a historical companion or an alien companion in the new series? Like, right, well, if they were gonna do it, this is how you could handle it, you know. You you make them weird like that. And as I say, I like that there's a more dynamic fifth doctor in this. At no point in it is you sit around saying there should have been another way. It's like, yeah, you're the doctor, it's your job to code for the weird dickhead.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:14

Yeah, I feel generally that they've it's present in this audio, but you really hear it in some of the others, where they've gone, Well, the TARDIS it during the Davidson era was just full of people who fucking hated each other and didn't want to be there. And they've sort of taken that DVD commentary version of the real then who mock each other, but it's an affectionate mocking that you do with someone you're really close to, and just make the all the relationships a bit more warm, so you understand why Tegan might want to hang around with the Doctor and he and why they'd keep Turlow around.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:46

Yeah, they play like mates as opposed to whatever the hell a lot of the the early 80s. I've not heard lords with this lineup specifically, but I would think that with the Davidson era, if you have got this thing of you only have eight characters, I think big TARDIS teams are gonna pose a bit of a problem, isn't it? If four of the characters are the doctor and the companions.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:05

Yeah. I feel like they all get enough to do in the hour runtime, 50-minute runtime. And I think Eddie Robson's just really good at weaving these sorts of stories that ticks all the boxes, everything ties up nicely, even if it's not a game changer. Like the aliens, the the cyanem or whatever it is, they're from another universe. Like, fine, it works well, and it's quite a fun little alt universe story or pocket universe story, the TARDIS buggers off because it doesn't like this alt universe. It all ties together nicely without being like not everything has to be a season finale.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:42

I think Robinson is very he's a very good writer, very good, one of Big Finish's best writers. And there's just a nice bit of like in this, just a nice use of the audio drama format where after Turlo's been taken and they're kind of frantically watching tapes of the of the game show. Um you've kind of got the two fans. Is it Richard Stewart who is sat there arguing over the special effects when it suddenly gutches and goes from the sea being a blue line and the desert being a yellow line, and they're just bickering about the BBC micro for a while and it takes the doctor looking at it to go, no, that's that's real. Which would be a drawn-out gag if you did it on TV, if it suddenly changed from like Quantel to Unreal Engine 5 graphics, and they were arguing about how they've done it with a computer. But it's a nice thing you can do in this, it takes the doctors to go, no, what are you talking about? That's real. I've been there.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:31

Yeah, it works really well. At this point, the main range of Big Finish is dying down. Do you think it's run its course? Or do you think there's still value in these standalone releases as opposed to the box set format they move on to?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:45

It's nice that you can have this. I mean, uh it would be also nice if you could have a box set where this was a 45-minute episode or shorter, you know, it's just a one-off thing. But the way this is structured, I mean this kind of released a double box set the way that some of these stories were on DVD where it's only two parts. I can't remember which ones now, but isn't the awakening packaged with black orchid or something like that?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:06

Isn't the awakening packaged with the gunfighters? And it's called Earth Storm.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:13

What's that box set called? These are things that happened in Doctor Who, the box. But you know what I mean. It's it's that kind of the the the value added to kind of package and things. It'd be nice if there was room for I mean they're they have the short trips range, and I feel like this is more of that than it would it is main range. But it's nice to have it. I mean, this the structure is what lets us down for me. I wonder if maybe it would have been better as a short trip.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:37

I mean, I think it doesn't outstay its runtime, but as you say, it's perhaps that needing to have the cliffhanger in the middle that I think probably affects the structure of it slightly. But yeah, I think you know, after them getting rid of the Bane Range, it's weird now that all of a sudden things like the 13th Doctor and the Ninth Doctor stories, they're releasing one every two months instead of putting them in box sets. And it just feels like they've realized that actually there's sort of value in both approaches that like sometimes you just want an hour of Doctor Who, and other times you want four hours of arc-heavy stuff or what have you. But increasingly I find just dipping in for an hour a lot more palatable way of enjoying an extra bit of Doctor Who.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:20

Yeah, I wonder how much that first name Doctor box set changed that because I I will never be in the mood for four or four hours of that, to be honest. That was a really inauspicious start to access it. Like the amount of times, like Tickering every single time a character goes, you just don't get it, do you? Which seems to happen like multiple times in one episode, like just really cliche, hackneyed writing, like stretched out story. And I've really enjoyed the one-off things. I wonder how much the economics of it are the reason why they do it in one story a month now rather than box setting it, you know, because you you you're getting actors like Eccleson and Jordy Whitzaker.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:56

Yeah, you've got to wonder, like, when you're coming up with your story, does it stretch to four hours or does it stretch to 50 minutes? And I mean, I don't I still don't know what happened in that first Eccleston box set, and I've heard it twice. But a script editor somewhere should have said, maybe this could be shorter and more concise, as you say, rather than just going, you just don't get what's happening, do you?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:16

I was gonna say that's what Briggs will have said about you just don't get it, do you?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:21

What do you think of the production values of this audio play?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:25

I'd say the music's fab. It's it's it really puts you in that space and the um the 80s of it all. And if it was only that, that'd be one thing. But yeah, it's it's a good lesson. Really enjoyed this. What are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:35

Yeah, I loved it. I think with Big Finish, a lot of the times now, like their production value is always really high, but I love the 80s music of it. I love the soundscape the creates with a game show. I love the whole 80s-ness of it because it's not quite 80s Doctor Who. It's more taking its legacy from the sort of nostalgia 80s of America in terms of the soundtracks and things like that, because it's not radiophonic workshop synths. It feels a bit more in line with American TV, but but I'm fine with that. It sounds great, it zips along, and you you come out the other end of it and go, Oh, I had a really good time in a way that sometimes I'm a bit like, oh, another big finish. Um, but uh there we go. Do you have much more you want to say on this one?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:21

Um, not really. I was gonna say that I mean we get into the rating bit. Go on. Um, so for me on this one, I would say I would land in average meander. Just because as I say, short trip in the schemas, things like the structure I'm a little bit hung up on, not because it dragged out, but because it's over a bit too quickly. Like I think there's more the idea is a banger, and that's all you need to avoid it. If it comes out average meander because it leaves a lot on the table.

unknown 1:17:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:46

You go, I hit all three buses.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:49

Yeah, it's the average meander for me, a good solid bit of Doctor Who. I wouldn't have wanted it to go on for much longer, but I had a fun 50 minutes and it was great to be in company of this TARDIS team when they get on a bit more.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:03

Yeah, I listened to it on a long walk, and if it had been any longer, I can't walk that far. Come on. Very hot, okay. Yeah, makes sense. I've brought in a game, Dylan. I've brought in a game for us to play. Ooh, how exciting. Just while we were talking about the intersection of, you know, of Doctor Who in game shows and quiz shows and you know that a lot of actors are contestants. Um, you also get a lot of quiz show hosts on UK TV who've acted in Doctor Who. So this game that I'm I brought in Field is called And Here's Your Host. I'm gonna give you the name of a game show, a UK gaming show, and you have to tell me the title of the first Doctor Who story that its host appeared in. Uh, we're not counting Hooniverse spin-offs or voice rolls or anything like that. So basically, if I said Paulo Grady's Saturday night lineup, well, the host would be Paulo Grady. What we want to know is the stolen earth was the first Doctor Who story that he was in, and obviously Anne Robinson, Bad Wolf, etc. So I'll I'll give you the title of the game show and I'll give you the channel that's on if that's any help at all. It might not be. Does that sound alright? Yeah, perfect. Let's see how I get on here. Cool. So, what was the first Doctor Who story to feature the host of Beat the Chasers from IBTV? Bloody hell. Beat the chasers.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:26

Oh was it the woman who fell to earth?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:30

It was the woman who fell to earth. Yeah, Bradley Walsh also hosts The Chase. The quiz show, not the Dalek serial from the 1960s. The Million Pound Drop, Channel 4.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:41

Oh Kablam?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:43

Who are you thinking for that? Lean Mac?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:45

Yeah, I couldn't I couldn't think who hosted it, so I just I just took a stab at it.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:49

If I told you the million pound drop is hosted by David McCall.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:53

Oh, then that would be Bad Wolf.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:57

It would have been Bad Wolf. It's not what I've got written down, I forgot she was in Bad Wolf. That best is you've won my quiz, and now I have to fuck off back to my own dimension. I did have the church on Ruby Road written down, and I did say we're not counting voice rolls so far, but yeah. No, it's alright. It's alright. I forgot she was in Badwall though, so we'll have it. We'll allow it. Uh tenable IT mate.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:19

Tenable? Oh, I don't know who hosts that either. This is proving an issue with my lack of push show knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:28

There's only seven more.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:32

Tenable. I'm gonna take a blam again. It's gotta be right at some point.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:37

You would think, alas, no. Uh Warwick Davies is the host of Temple. Uh, so Nightmare and Silver. Here's an old E for you. Kickstart, BBC One. Kickstart? Is it the Empty Child? Is it John Barron? No. This is an older quiz show than this one, so this is a classic series too, and I'll give you that. So who has hosted a quiz and also been a Doctor Who Regular in the Classic series?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:03

Who's hosted a quiz and also been a Doctor Who Regular? Is it a regular rather than a guest character?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:09

A classic series regular. That's what I know the first story they were in.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:13

It's not John Perley, is it?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:15

It's not John Perlley. Would you like to know who it is? Yeah, go on. Kickstart was hosted by Peter Perf's first appearance in The Chist.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:24

I'm a fool.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:25

Right, let's have an easy one. Pointless BBC One.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:27

Oh fuck. I can't even remember who hosts is it pointless? Oh yes, I can. The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:38

Yes, it is the Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe. Sorry. Alexander Armstrong. Also, Mr. Smith, that's why I had to rule out voice rolls, but also apparently forget about bad one. QI, BBC2.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:51

Oh, so that would be Spy Fall.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:55

Yep. Stephen Fry, the original host. Sandy Tuggs forget to turn up, but give it time. She could be the doctor if it goes out of tender and someone someone pitches that. Here's one for you. Nexus from the Sky Technology Channel.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:08

Oh, my favourite TV show. I'm gonna say Pirates of the Spiders episode six. Was it Tom Baker?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:17

It was not. It was Brian Blessed who did a sci-fi quiz show called Nexus. Uh so we're after trial of a time lord on mind wob for that one. Supermarket sweep, ITV2.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:28

Oh bloody hell.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:30

Dale Winton. No, these two are where we specifically need the channels for list. Supermarket sweep, the ITv2 version.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:37

Oh it was Rylan, wasn't it? So it'll be the Interstellar Song Contest.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:42

The Interstellar Song Contest, indeed. So one more for you straightforwardly. Who'd done it?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:48

Oh, that will be John Pertwee, and this will be the Spearhead from Space.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:53

Correct. Right. That's the end of the And Here's Your Host game. That was that's it. That was brilliant. Thank you so much. Well done if any any of those are hopeful.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:02

Yeah. Turns out I haven't watched any quiz shows in about a decade.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:07

Just the weakest link Doctor Who special. Never mind the most doctor talk special.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:10

Well, exactly. And that's all you need when you're a Doctor Who fan. Thanks so much for joining me today. If people want to find you online, where can they find you?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:20

I'm Mark Harrison on uh Blue Sky, so markarrison.bsky.social. I'm also working on something for all that quiz game and I mentioned I'm looking for jingles for something. And that's called The First Question. That's a podcast that's come along sometime summer. It's hidden in plain sight at the moment. So if you want to go follow that, some little Doctor Who relate uh quiz related bits while some um audio recording and editing goes on in the background. So you follow that on Blue Sky as well. That's firstquestion pod dot be sky.social. If you go give that a follow, you'll see what I'm up to later in the summer. There'll be something, there'll be a full series in 206. Imagine that.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:56

Ha ha! Amazing. Well, I'm very excited to hear what you come up with, and uh, you know, I'm scheduled to appear on it myself at some point. Yep. Next time I'm going to be joined by another newbie round these parts. My good friend Harry Palmer is going to join me, and we're going to do a bit of an experiment in that we have listened to the entire output of Big Finish for one month, the month of May, and we're going to jump in and find out whether all the cliches are true or not, and see what about 14 hours of Doctor Who in one month really feels like. But until next time, I've been Dylan. I've been Mark. And this has been Doctor Who Too Hot for TV. The celebrity Doctor Who fan that they roll out for, you know, Capaldi's announcement and things like that. I often wonder like that was that was Zoe Ball.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:26

Oh, was it? Oh fuck. Yeah. Ignore me. Uh same thing. Yeah. I'll cut that. Um but Yeah, it's alright.