Co-Owning a Goat

If you only have a few does to breed each year, it might seem like a waste to own your buck. But even if you have a buck, who do you breed his daughters to? One option is artificial insemination, but another option is to co-own a buck.

Although I had heard of two people co-owning a goat before, I had never heard of four until I met today's guests when we were recording last week's episode on Pygmy goats.

Gary and Karole Miller of Fox Haven Pygmy Goats, Andrea Pursley of High Caliber Pygmy Goats, and Diane Keith of Fair View and Shasta View are co-owners of Flying Turtle's Gather Gotta Get Away, who is more commonly known as Mick.

In this episode, they tell us Mick's story on the road to becoming the National Champion and how they share ownership of him, from where he lives to where he goes to shows.

See full show notes here >> https://thriftyhomesteader.com/co-owning-a-goat/

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Thanks for listening!

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Transcript

Introduction  0:03 
For the love of goats! We are talking about everything goat. Whether you're a goat owner, a breeder, or just a fan of these wonderful creatures, we've got you covered. And now, here is Deborah Niemann.

Deborah Niemann  0:19 
Today's episode is brought to you by Goats 365, my membership program for people who are living with, learning about, and loving goats, three hundred and sixty-five days a year. Basic members get access to six courses covering housing, fencing, parasites, nutrition, and health, as well as things like composting goat manure and the basics of starting a goat-based business. Premium members also have the opportunity to attend live online meetings via Zoom to talk about goats every month. Visit Goats365.com to learn more.

Deborah Niemann  0:52 
Hello, everyone, and welcome to today's episode! We had so much fun last week talking about Pygmy goats, and we are joined this week again by Karole Miller and Gary Miller of Fox Haven Pygmy Goats, Andrea Pursley of High Caliber Pygmy Goats, and Diane Keith of Fair View and Shasta View. And, today we are going to talk about co-owning a goat, because the four of them co-own Mick, who was the national champion Pygmy buck last year. So, welcome back to the show, everyone!

Andrea Pursley  1:26 
Hello!

Karole Miller  1:26 
Thank you.

Diane Keith  1:27 
Thanks for having us!

Diane Keith  1:28 
Yeah! This is gonna be great. I'm so excited to hear more about Mick's story. He just sounds like an amazing goat, like, kind of a once-in-a-lifetime goat for everybody. So, it's really cool that four of you get to share him. So, can you tell us a little bit about where Mick came from and how all of this started?

Diane Keith  1:45 
Mick is kind of an interesting story, because it never was just a straight drive for the championship. It was always kind of like the accidental tourist; we just kind of seemed to end up in the right place at the right time. So, Mick was bred by a Dr. Elaine Krieg of Flying Turtles Pygmy Goats in Grass Valley, California. And, we were doing some photos— I'm a photographer. And, we had come down to do some photos for the color chart, because we were updating the color chart for the breed standards. And, I mentioned to her that I would really like to look at some of her bucks, but she had a really long waiting list. So, I got on her list. And, in the meantime, she showed me three bucks that were sitting there. And, I have a friend in Oregon, who, we had helped each other out quite a bit. And, while I'm down there, she texted me and she said, "Hey, I'm at the top of Elaine's list for her bucks. Can you take a look at what she's got?" And I said, "Sure!"

Diane Keith  2:42 
So, we were looking at the bucks, and I get this text from her, and she says, "Do you want to go in with me on him?" And I'm like, "Oh, yeah." So, I went from the bottom of Elaine's list to the top of her list—but actually, it was my friend Katie who was at the top. But, I got to pick Mick out. And, what was really funny is that she had had several bucks there, and there were only three left at that point in time. So, he had been passed over. But, she has really nice bucks, so it wasn't like he was not a really nice buck. But, he had been passed over six or seven times before we got him. And, I was looking at him, and there was another buck I was looking at; the other buck kind of started walking. And, I looked at Elaine, and I said, "That's not the one we want, is it?" She said, "No." And so, I was looking at Mick, and the more I looked at him, the more I liked him. And so, I got ahold of Katie, and I said, "Hey, I think we've got a good one here." And, I sent her some pictures. And, she agreed. So, I went home with a buck.

Diane Keith  3:36 
And so, he lived at my house for a while. And then, Katie unfortunately had to disperse her herd, and I ended up with Mick as mine. And Andrea and I, we travel a lot together. We share a lot in some of our breeding and what we do and how we do it, because we're close there in town, and we're good friends. And Andrea, I'll let you talk about how you ended up with Mick.

Andrea Pursley  4:00 
I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. When Katie was getting out, Diane said, "Hey, you want to get in on this?" And I said, "Sure." And, I have a very small herd, because I don't have a lot of space, so Mick lived at Diane's, and I basically became his chauffeur and groom.

Diane Keith  4:19 
So, from there, I guess what we ought to tell you, too, is Mick's registered name is Flying Turtle's Gather Gotta Get Away. And Gotta Get Away is a Rolling Stones' song. So, when we brought him home, it was obvious that he was "Mick." People don't know him by Gather Gotta Get Away. They know him by Mick. If you say "Mick" in the Pygmy goat world, most people know who he is. So, that's our story with Mick so far.

Diane Keith  4:20 
So, we're sitting at a show down in Sacramento, and Mick is just starting his show career, and he's starting to do pretty well. And, we're talking to Gary and Karole, and Andrea and I had discussed it before—and I'll hand it off to Karole here, and you can talk about how you got Mick.

Karole Miller  5:05 
I was handed a leash and told, "Here, go show him." Gary and I were just kind of sitting there, hanging out with Diana and Andrea; we had become really good friends at that point. And, they were like, "Hey, do you want to get in on this guy and be our partner? And, we're all going to show him and try to get him to as many shows as possible." And, we were like, "Uh, duh. Yeah. He's beautiful." And, we were excited about what he might do for our breeding program, which was struggling at the time, because we were quite a bit newer to the Pygmy goat world than people who've been there for a few more years than we have. So, it was really exciting to be partners on this gorgeous buck, who is so sweet and wonderful. He's the sweetest. And, we got to take him home from that show. So, that was exciting. And, he quickly became Mickerdoodles, because he's just a big snuggle bug. And then, we started breeding him, and wow—his babies are just phenomenal. But, we kept showing him. And, Gary, want to talk about showing Mick?

Andrea Pursley  6:17 
Sure. So, we started out, there's a couple of shows we did locally to this area; he won a couple of grands. His last grand champion win was actually his breeder, Elaine, took him to Arizona, got him a win there. Then, he came back. And again, a few more shows. We took him to Idaho. He won there; a couple of his master wins were there. So, he has been all over the country. Nationals was in Indiana, so he was taken by his breeder, by Elaine, to Nationals. So, he's been all over. We've all worked together to show him. I got him a win in Porterville. So, he's been with all of us and pretty much all over the country. And, that's his show career.

Karole Miller  7:04 
But, I think it's important to really talk about that we do have a fifth member of the Mick syndicate, and that is Dr. Elaine Krieg, his breeder, because she has bent over backwards for us and for Mick. She's taken him to shows out of state; she has been there to support us and to be our biggest cheerleader. And, we just can't thank her enough for that.

Andrea Pursley  7:27 
Couldn't have done it without her.

Karole Miller  7:28 
We couldn't have done it without her.

Diane Keith  7:30 
I had the honor of being in Indiana when Mick won his national title. I had already gotten the photography contract for that show, so I had already been committed to doing the photos, and I was unable to show him. We literally decided two weeks before to take Mick to that show, because Dr. Elaine had decided at the last minute to go, and she said she'd take him. And, when she said that, I said "Okay, Elaine, but you've got to show him," and she just smiled. And so, she took Mick, and she showed him.

Diane Keith  8:02 
Now, the one thing about Mick that's different than most goats is, when you haul a goat, they tend to shrink up some. They don't eat. They don't drink. They lose weight. And, she has said, "You know, your goat is going to lose 10 pounds on this trip." Not Mick. Mick eats anywhere. Mick eats all the time. If he's got food, Mick eats. So, he ended up in Indiana looking pretty good. And, when we were doing the title, when they announced it, of course, I'm in the arena taking pictures, and I'm listening but trying hard not to say, "It's gotta be Mick. It's gotta be Mick. It's gotta be Mick." We've got Gary and Karole in Lake Tahoe watching on live feed. We've got Andrea at home watching on live feed. And, I'm gonna let them describe, but I will tell you, when they announced Mick's name, there was a certain photographer who leaped to her feet and screamed quite loudly and ran over and probably just about choked Elaine.

Diane Keith  8:59 
So, I'm gonna let Andrea talk about where she was when she found out, because it gets a little comical.

Andrea Pursley  9:05 
I was actually just finishing with work and thought, "Okay, I need to get done with my work day. Don't start the bucks until I'm done working." And, I was watching the live feed and probably watched my quarter of a buck walk in there with Elaine's big old grin on her face. And, I was kind of along the same lines as Diane; when they were tallying the points, I was just sitting there thinking, "Okay, yeah, this would be really nice." And then, I got really excited for the first runner-up, because she's a friend of ours. And, I was so excited for Eva that at first it didn't register when they said that Mick was our national champion. I kind of sat there, and then the screaming started, and my husband could not figure out what was going on. And, I think our neighbors probably thought that somebody was dying, because I was just beyond excited. It was just amazing.

Andrea Pursley  9:54 
And now, here's the Millers!

Karole Miller  9:57 
Yeah, we were at Lake Tahoe visiting our son, who was working up there at the time, and he had secured us a cabin for the weekend. So, we were just kind of up there, making jambalaya and gumbo and just having a nice little Cajun weekend. And, we were watching the live stream, watched the champion wether class, then we watched all the champion does compete, and then finally the bucks. And, when they got to, "And your national champion buck is..." He barely got out the word "Flying" in "Flying Turtle's Gather Gotta Get Away" when I started screaming. And, the owner of the lodge where we were staying came running, because he thought somebody fell in the lake and was drowning. Like, everybody was just in shock. We're in there screaming, running around, "Oh, my God! Oh, my god! He won! He won!" Like, it just... I lost my mind. So.

Diane Keith  10:55 
And, I think my greatest honor was I got to be the photographer of the national champion buck, of which I had ownership—partial ownership—of. And, for me, as a photographer, I think that was my crowning moment, was to be able to do that backdrop picture of him.

Deborah Niemann  11:10 
Wow.

Diane Keith  11:11 
So, there's your story of Mick.

Diane Keith  11:12 
And, I think the other thing you need to realize, I don't think we said about Mick, is that Mick spends April through October in Grass Valley, California, and he spends about half of October through half of April in Klamath Falls, Oregon. So, there's a very defined time that the Millers know they're going to have him, and there's a very defined time that Andrea and I know we're going to have him. And, I will tell you, as a partnership, nailing those details down early is critical. So, you can plan your breedings. You can plan things in advance. You know when you're going to have the goat there, and nobody is worried about when he's going to come, or you're going to have him more than me, or anything. It's all defined upfront. That's critical.

Deborah Niemann  11:59 
That's awesome! And, I'm glad that you got into some of the details, because that's where I want to go, is about the logistics of how, you know, four people own a goat. Like, how did it even start in terms of, like, purchasing him, and then any healthcare-related expenses, anything like that?

Diane Keith  12:19 
Mick was a gift to the Millers. Did you pay for him, Andrea?

Andrea Pursley  12:22 
I did.

Diane Keith  12:23 
Andrea did put a little money in on him. But, Mick was a gift to the Millers. We value friendship more than goats. So, no money changed hands in that one. There are other ones that we also co-own—the doe, the daughter of him. Was there money on that one? Oh, no! That doe fell in love with Gary.

Karole Miller  12:41 
Yeah.

Diane Keith  12:41 
Nobody could show her. And, I had another doe in the same class, and she was such a little turkey to show. Gary got her, and that doe absolutely loved him. And so, he took her home. And, I'm not entirely sure he had permission... But, it all worked out! So, that's Gary's doe; she loves him. But, I mean, there are some partnerships where we change hands; this one not so much.

Diane Keith  13:08 
The medical and things like that: If the Millers have ownership of him, they pay. Not "ownership." Possession. If Andrea and I have possession, we pay. If something happens to the buck... Recently, Mick stuck his foot through the fence, and he had a little bit of a soreness on his shoulder. The first call was made to Gary and Karole, to let them know that Mick was limping and, "Hey, he's okay. But, he's not doing well." We just... Communication is the key. Is it always easy? No. No, there's times when we've butted heads, and there's times when we've threatened to end the partnership. But, the thing is, if you're truly friends, you're going to talk it out. You're going to listen. The miscommunications are going to go away if you are big enough to listen to each other and do it. And, that's the key.

Diane Keith  13:58 
It's not easy. I'm not even going to pretend it's easy every minute of the day. Are we super excited when things happen? Yes. We're excited when the Millers win, and I'm going to let them tell you about one of Mick's progeny that recently had a pretty big win. We were right there by ringside, clapping and being excited for him. Are they excited when our does or our bucks or wethers win? Of course they are. And, that's it, is you got to get past ego. Yeah. You have to get past ego, and you have to be willing to communicate, and you have to, when there's a miscommunication, you have to be willing to stop long enough to talk it out. And, I don't know if you can tell on this podcast, but we actually have a lot of fun!

Diane Keith  14:47 
So, I'm going to hand it off to someone else to talk about: Mick's next generation is really starting to come into their own.

Deborah Niemann  14:55 
Yeah. On the last episode that we did about Pygmy goats, you were talking about how he tends to throw nice, small kids, which is really important for Pygmys.

Diane Keith  15:05 
Well, I should probably let Diane address Mick's first baby, because before that kid was born, we had already had a name picked out.

Diane Keith  15:14 
Oh, yeah.

Andrea Pursley  15:14 
So, let me have Diane start.

Diane Keith  15:15 
So, Mick's first kid was a caramel buckling. We named him Oh Mickey You're So Fine after his dad. So, that was his first kid. Mickey went to the arena. And, the minute he turned a year old, he won two grands, and had to sit out, because you can only win two grands before they're two years old, and they have to have progeny. So, Mickey is going back into the arena this month, and we're hoping to see him qualify for the National Convention. Because, my personal goal—

Andrea Pursley  15:16 
I think it's a group goal.

Diane Keith  15:35 
—is that a son of Mick might win the national title this year. And, while I'm not saying he will win it, what I am saying is he can be a contender. He's owned by a really good friend of mine up in Canby, Oregon, named Laurie Zeise, and she's had some phenomenal kids out of him. But, Oh Mickey You're So Fine is our first kid out of Mick, and he's hit the ground running.

Andrea Pursley  16:17 
I'm fortunate enough to own two of Mick's babies. I actually bred him. And, the cool thing about Mick is you can take a mediocre doe—because I had a very mediocre doe that I bred to, and I got a doe and a buck. And, the doe was okay. I ended up selling her, because we had a personality conflict. But, I got an amazing wether. And, Mick's babies are really starting to take off. My two-year-old daughter by Mick, who's getting ready to kid, has been a junior champion—reserve junior champion—a couple of times, and my wether has received one Best Wether. So, he is definitely passing on his winning ways. And then, Diane also has a Mick's son who has been a reserve best wether twice. And, she has to compete with me, so you know where that goes.

Andrea Pursley  17:07 
Yeah. So, Da Bomb, who is the doe that I have, she is a brown agouti. She has two. She's pregnant; she's due in a week. But, we actually co-own her with Diane, as well. And, she's had several junior champion wins, several reserve grand champion wins. She doesn't have a grand champion yet, but she's pregnant now, so we won't be showing her for a little while. But, she is a daughter of Mick.

Karole Miller  17:35 
And then, we have now four sons of Mick, because Mick is not throwing us any daughters.

Diane Keith  17:43 
I got the daughters.

Karole Miller  17:45 
Yes, Diane has all of the daughters, and apparently we're getting all the bucks. We got two bucks out of him last July. And, we recently showed them; we showed both boys last month at the first show of the year in Cloverdale, California. And, one of the boys, Renegade, is out of our herd line now. So Fox Haven's Renegade, he won his class, and then he won junior champion. And, we went in for the champion lineups again, and yeah, we're just eye candy. Smile. Look pretty. Because, they always pick a senior. But, a judge picked him! He won grand champion buck at seven months of age, and I literally fell on my rear end in the ring, because I couldn't believe it. And, we are so stinking proud of him.

Karole Miller  18:33 
He is ineligible to be shown until he turns a year old now. So, in August, we will be showing him again. If he wins another grand, then he's out till he's two. We've already bred him. So, we're trying to prove him right now. We're 99.9% sure that doe is pregnant; we're going to do an ultrasound in about a week to confirm. But, it's very exciting to get to watch all of these kids—you know, the Mick syndicate 2.0 now. And, all these kids are in the ring, and kicking butt, and we're all so happy for each other, because we're all in this together still.

Diane Keith  19:14 
One thing also that is really funny is that Mick puts a stamp on his kids. Probably three quarters of the time, you can look in the arena and pick out the Mick kids. They have a certain ear set; they have a certain head. He puts this narrow stripe on one or both sides of their belly, and he has the same stripe, and that's probably three quarters of the time, too. He stamps them, so he's very easy to mark as a sire, and it's just fun watching them.

Diane Keith  19:17 
Right now, most of the Mick babies are held by us. There are a few, like Oh Mickey You're So Fine, that are owned by other people. But, for the most part, we don't have a lot of his kids—

Andrea Pursley  19:55 
And Dr. Elaine.

Diane Keith  19:56 
Oh, and Dr. Elaine has two kiddings. She gets full access to Mick whenever she wants him; we consider her family. So, anyway, that's the Mick story.

Deborah Niemann  20:06 
Wow! That is so cool. And, because you look at your bucks, and you think, "Wow, you guys only have to work, like, two or three days a year, and I have to feed you for 365." Because, I think— Was it Diane, maybe, who said you only have eight does? So, you can't really have too many bucks.

Diane Keith  20:22 
Yeah. But, I either own or co-own five or six bucks. And, what that does for me is, I have a son of Mick right now called Drop The Mic. And, Mikey is a full brother, actually, to Oh Mickey You're So Fine. So, this gets really complicated, because we have Mikey, Mick, and Mickey. And, there's another one named Monkey Business at home, too. So, it gets a little complicated at my house. But, what the benefit of co-owning is, I've got Mikey, which I keep half the time, but it's a different timeframe from when I keep Mick. And then, I have Monkey Business, who will be shared with another person on a different timeline. But, they're all different breeding. So, if I have a certain need in a doe, and I don't have a buck, or they're related, I have a buck. I have access to six bucks that I co-own with different bloodlines. And, with only eight does, really, I only need one buck. But, by sharing the bloodlines and sharing the ownership, it just allows me more diversity in breeding in my herd.

Deborah Niemann  21:25 
Yeah, absolutely. So, how do you work that in terms of biosecurity and stuff? Do you all do regular testing? Or, how does that work?

Andrea Pursley  21:36 
Yes. We all do regular testing. For me, the co-ownership benefits because I don't have the space to keep a lot of bucks. And, because of the small space, you know, there could be a higher risk. So, we make sure that all our herds are tested. Whoever happens to have Mick at the time when testing comes around, we pay for it, and then—

Diane Keith  21:57 
Share the results.

Andrea Pursley  21:57 
And, we share the results. And, we do require anybody who wants—outside of us—we do require testing results.

Deborah Niemann  22:05 
For which diseases?

Diane Keith  22:07 
We test for CAE, CL, and Johnes. And then, we also do a bluetongue test, just to make sure. We have a lot of deer and other things that run around our properties, and just to make sure, we do a bluetongue test as well.

Deborah Niemann  22:23 
Okay. That's a great idea, to do the bluetongue test, too, because I know, I actually know somebody who recently had a doe abort, and she found out it was because of bluetongue, which was a huge shock to her.

Diane Keith  22:35 
Yeah. We have had bluetongue in our areas before—both our areas. So—

Andrea Pursley  22:39 
Not our herds.

Diane Keith  22:40 
Not in our herds. But, in friends' and people we knew—and not even necessarily Pygmy goat herds. But, we'd have had it in the area. So, we just test to make sure.

Deborah Niemann  22:50 
That's a really good idea. So, if there's anything that you know of that's in your area, go ahead and test for that, too.

Deborah Niemann  22:56 
So, if somebody's thinking of co-owning, is there any other advice you would give them in terms of, like, what they should make sure that they do, or what they make sure they discuss ahead of time? You talked about the scheduling already, which is a really good point.

Diane Keith  23:10 
The communication is the key. But, also, we feed very similarly. So, when Andrea and I pass him off to Gary and Karole, you know, I'll say "Hey, this is what we've been feeding. We've been feeding about this much grain, about this much hay. Oh yeah, it's cold up in Klamath, so he's been getting warm water. So, if it goes off his water, you know, try some warm," or something like that. Because, he does like his warm water on cold days.

Karole Miller  23:33 
His sons do, too.

Diane Keith  23:34 
Yeah! Karole said, "His sons do, too." So, we spoil them a little in the winter. But, I'm not sure that we all feed exactly the same, but we when we pass him off, we make sure he transitions into what each other is feeding so that there's not a lot of shock in different feeds, because that can cause some problems in any animal. So, the feeding is important.

Diane Keith  23:59 
We vaccinated, what, two weeks ago, up in Klamath Falls? And, we have Mick. So, when we vaccinated, I texted Karole and said, "Hey, Mick's been vaccinated." Andrea helped, so she knew he was vaccinated. And, you know, he doesn't need to be vaccinated twice, so just making sure that those things are all done, making sure you know what vaccination program they're on, that they need to be done every X months or X weeks or whatever is being done.

Diane Keith  24:26 
Right now, we've had terrible weather in both of the areas we live in. And so, the animals have been inside a lot. And, of course, when you get cold weather, with heat lamps, and animals that aren't outside, you can get lice or mites. And so, you have to treat for those a little more often. If we treat Mick—which we just did a couple of weeks ago. We did a pour-on, because we'd already done Ivermec, so we didn't want to repeat that in that timeline. We make sure that our partners are all aware of what he's had. And so, it's just the big communication on him, you know?

Diane Keith  25:02 
We just do the feed with the rest of our herd. When the Millers have him, they take care of him. When we have him, we take care of him. Again, the vet bill, if something catastrophic happens, I think we'd all pitch in. I think we're that good of friends, we wouldn't let it happen. But if it's just... For instance, I had the vet look at Mick when he got hurt. I paid that bill; it wasn't significant. He was at my house; we just paid it. But, it is critical that you have those things ironed out. And again, the first time there is any sign of discontent, you need to bring it to the forefront. You can't let it sit. You have to bring it to the forefront. And, if it wasn't really good friends, I think I put it in a contract.

Diane Keith  25:48 
The other thing that we did—and it wasn't because I didn't like anybody. But, when we transferred Mick's papers over, we made sure that the papers say, "Gary and Karole and Andrea and Diane." To change papers on Mick or to legally transfer him, we all four have to sign off. Where, most papers, when you co-own, they go in as "or." And, if it says "Karole or Diane," either one of us can transfer that goat. So, critical when you're co-owning goats—and this just keeps friends friends—is that when you put the papers in their name, you make it so everybody has to sign off. And then, you're in agreement.

Deborah Niemann  26:35  
Wow, you've got a lot of good information there that most people probably would not have thought about until they were already co-owning a goat and maybe starting to have some challenges.

Diane Keith  26:45  
I think the biggest problem in other people—because they can't believe the four of us are still talking after owning this goat for two years, especially after his big wins and stuff. And, we actually have a lot of fun. But, I think that's just it: You're never going to make a million dollars selling Pygmy goats. Pygmy goats, when people ask me why I have them—and it's usually a male. I look at him, and I say, "That's my boat." And they're like, "What?" And I say, "How much did you put into your boat?" And then, the light bulb goes off. They're my boat. They're my release from stress. I have a very high-stress job. I go out and I sit with my goats, and they take all that stress away. If I'm sad, they make me happy. If I'm not feeling chipper, I go out and clean a pen. And, there's something so satisfying about taking that dirty, nasty pen and making it pretty. So, they're my boat. They're my sanity. 

Diane Keith  26:47  
And so, people have to understand that, that they're never going to make you a million dollars. It's not about the money, because the money is never going to be there. They're going to cost you money, most likely, not make you money. And, I think once you get that in your mind, and then you get the right partners, and communicate with those partners, then the partnership works.

Deborah Niemann  28:05  
That's awesome! And, you know, I'm sure Mick loves being co-owned by all of you, because he gets a lot more action than he would if he was just on one farm.

Diane Keith  28:14  
Exactly. 

Andrea Pursley  28:15  
And he's with three of his sons right now.

Diane Keith  28:17  
Yeah. Right now, it's been really cold and wet. So, while I do have structures to put them in, we've been a little bit stretched on enough structures. So, Mick is living with three of his sons and one of his grandsons. He is ready to move on to Gary and Karole's, because they are driving him crazy. He is the gentlest, kindest goat, though, that he just kind of pushes them away and says, "Guys, you know, give Gramps a chance here." But yeah, it's fun. Mick is so funny. I think he likes living with Gary and Karole more, though, because I think he gets more tortilla chips at their house—and that's his go-to. You want to get Mick to do anything? Put a chip-a-roo in front of him.

Deborah Niemann  29:01  
Well, this has been so much fun, hearing Mick's story, and learning about him, and learning about your great friendship and your partnership. Thank you so much for joining us today!

Karole Miller  29:11  
Thank you so much for having us.

Andrea Pursley  29:13  
Yeah, thank you very much.

Andrea Pursley  29:14  
Thank you. This was fun.

Diane Keith  29:16  
Yeah, this was a lot of fun. We like to talk about Mick. Thank you.

Deborah Niemann  29:20  
And everybody, be sure to check out the photos that are gonna be in the show notes, because there's a very special photo of Mick in there.

Diane Keith  29:30  
He's a rock star.

Deborah Niemann  29:32  
Yes. Yes. And, you mean that in the most literal way. 

Diane Keith  29:38  
Yes. 

Deborah Niemann  29:39  
So, if anybody wants to get in touch with you, how can they find you online?

Diane Keith  29:44  
Well, for Diane—this is Diane. Unfortunately, the only way they can get hold of me as either by phone, email, or on my personal Facebook page. I'll hand off to Andrea now.

Andrea Pursley  29:56  
For High Caliber Pygmy Goats, I'm the same way as Diane. I do have an email address that is HighCaliberPygmyGoats@gmail.com. Or, people can find me on my Facebook page—my personal Facebook page.

Karole Miller  30:08  
So, this is Karole Miller. There's several ways to contact us. Our email address is FoxHavenPygmyGoats@yahoo.com. You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, Clapper, and TikTok. TikTok is probably the biggest platform that we have right now. We have 114,000 followers, which is pretty cool for a Pygmy Goat page. But, that's probably the easiest way to get in touch with us.

Deborah Niemann  30:33  
Great! Thank you so much! Thanks for joining us today. 

Deborah Niemann  30:37  
And that's it for today's show. If you haven't already done so, be sure to hit the "subscribe" button so that you don't miss any episodes. To see show notes, you can always visit ForTheLoveOfGoats.com, and you can follow us on Facebook at Facebook.com/LoveGoatsPodcast. See you again next time. Bye for now!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai