Entertain This!
The Cultural Resonance of Kaiju Cinema Explored ep192
Ever wondered if Clifford the Big Red Dog might qualify as a kaiju? We join forces with Nathan and Michael, two die-hard kaiju aficionados, for a romp through the colossal world of giant monster films. Witness the clash of opinions on what truly defines a kaiju, and the nuances between 'Kaiju' and 'Daikaiju,' as we unpack the criteria that shape this larger-than-life genre. From the thudding steps of Godzilla to the cultural symbolism woven into each epic battle, we leave no stone unturned in our quest to understand these cinematic behemoths.
Our conversation isn't just a trip down memory lane; it's a testament to the enduring connections that life's journeys foster. We blend the exhilaration of kaiju lore with the comfort of long-standing friendships, proving that some bonds—like our love for Godzilla—simply never go extinct.
Rounding out our monster mash, we tackle the cultural impact of kaiju cinema, from allegories of historical events to the evolution of these titans from menacing threats to national heroes. The choreography of classic showdowns like "Gamera 3" and the East meets West face-off in "King Kong vs. Godzilla" are dissected with the precision of a film scholar. So, whether you're a kaiju guru or just dipping your toes into the genre's vast ocean, join us for an episode that's as entertaining as it is enlightening—and don't forget to continue the conversation with us across our social platforms!
Could you design a video game?
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DMR - Deweys Movie Reviews - PodcastWelcome to DMR - Deweys Movie Reviews - An Aussie podcast reviewing film & series
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
Ever wondered if Clifford the Big Red Dog might qualify as a kaiju? We join forces with Nathan and Michael, two die-hard kaiju aficionados, for a romp through the colossal world of giant monster films. Witness the clash of opinions on what truly defines a kaiju, and the nuances between 'Kaiju' and 'Daikaiju,' as we unpack the criteria that shape this larger-than-life genre. From the thudding steps of Godzilla to the cultural symbolism woven into each epic battle, we leave no stone unturned in our quest to understand these cinematic behemoths.
Our conversation isn't just a trip down memory lane; it's a testament to the enduring connections that life's journeys foster. We blend the exhilaration of kaiju lore with the comfort of long-standing friendships, proving that some bonds—like our love for Godzilla—simply never go extinct.
Rounding out our monster mash, we tackle the cultural impact of kaiju cinema, from allegories of historical events to the evolution of these titans from menacing threats to national heroes. The choreography of classic showdowns like "Gamera 3" and the East meets West face-off in "King Kong vs. Godzilla" are dissected with the precision of a film scholar. So, whether you're a kaiju guru or just dipping your toes into the genre's vast ocean, join us for an episode that's as entertaining as it is enlightening—and don't forget to continue the conversation with us across our social platforms!
Could you design a video game?
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
DMR - Deweys Movie Reviews - PodcastWelcome to DMR - Deweys Movie Reviews - An Aussie podcast reviewing film & series
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
Because you do dude yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, still, the coolest roar out of anything, say. If you ever want to get a black eye, play that with your girlfriend watching the room.
Speaker 1:That is the Imperial March.
Speaker 2:Nah, she likes that. Oh, you're a huge fair man. Nah, I don't do anything. I love my girlfriend. I'm surprised she doesn't love me.
Speaker 1:Yes, aren't we? Anyways, welcome to Entertaining this, a podcast about movies, tv shows and video games. Today, we're going to be talking about the all-important Japanese kaiju Kaiju. But first we have our social media, which is entertainthispodcastcom, which will take you to our Facebook group and page. We also have our Twitter slash ex, which is, at this, entertain, and our Instagram, which is entertained at this. And because Tom and I know very little about Kaiju, we have our friends Nathan and Michael here to expand on your and you're in the one for punishment.
Speaker 2:You should have said Michael and Nathan.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, sorry. Oh yeah, I forgot. I forgot. Is that why he even did that? Because somebody is just not willing to go second. Well, I am no bottom oh. Well, then maybe you should start podcasting about Kaiju again, maybe, or I just leave it to you, and just so that when I do make my triumph at return, people will have something to actually look forward to. Oh, are you trying to say you're the second coming?
Speaker 2:It seems very lofty of you.
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm a giver so I try to come second usually. Oh really, uh-huh, uh-huh yeah. He has his own sounds. Oh, with his sound effects, oh man.
Speaker 1:I feel like the energy Same.
Speaker 3:I feel like the energy that we just had a few minutes ago, talking about stuff that's completely unrelated, is carrying over.
Speaker 2:so the dude's show is starting to materialize itself, it's manifesting. No, Godzilla, damn it. Kaiju Get on track, boys.
Speaker 3:This is how great podcasts start, just for the conversation and just I mean, that's where the power trip came from. It was just you and me having private conversations about Power Rangers, yeah, and you were lonely, so I obliged.
Speaker 1:Well, that's how our started.
Speaker 3:Well, you ended up very lonely too, because that's why you were going back to the cell.
Speaker 1:Our whole podcast started just because we get off work and start talking about movies, tvs and the video games we wanted to go home and play.
Speaker 3:Right, well, yeah, because you guys live a very intense job, so you need.
Speaker 1:We need to go home and play games and kill things, or else you will be killed the criminals that your friends then have to arrest.
Speaker 3:But for real, guys, thanks for having us back. I know it's been so long since we talked. Oh yeah, like 30 seconds.
Speaker 2:Remember that time you paused to breathe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was the time we paused in between recording. That was an amazing breath, guys.
Speaker 2:That was such a good pause.
Speaker 3:Now make Daddy a sandwich.
Speaker 2:He Anthony Mackied it.
Speaker 1:You verbalized it.
Speaker 2:People don't know. It's like we talked for like almost an hour between recordings and just talking about how, about completely unrelated things, completely random too, and probably shouldn't be remenced at this point.
Speaker 3:I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I totally mind my. Hashtag plausible deniability, Except for the fact that you were gone. I took a very extended bathroom break. What were we talking about? You did more than pee, didn't you? Hey, you know you gotta do what you gotta do, man. It's been a lonely season.
Speaker 2:You poor man.
Speaker 3:Okay, so Kaiju, I guess Kaiju, yeah, we're doing Kaiju. Okay, kaiju and you. The Ted Talk by the Ted Talk by one, mr Dejan Marchant. Oh really oh, I get to do this.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, you are the village idiot.
Speaker 3:I mean you are the resident editor. Oh, because I have a master's degree and all that stuff. That I only remind people about you. Know every other sentence.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's the fourth time he's brought it up.
Speaker 3:Exactly that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, only four.
Speaker 1:Man, I'm lagging.
Speaker 3:The next time you bring it up, nathan, I'm gonna kick you in your nuts. Too bad for you. I have done.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:Holy wow. That was a joke right there.
Speaker 2:Jokes on you.
Speaker 3:That was Jokes on you. I'm Jokes on you, I'm a eunuch.
Speaker 2:You're just gonna be kicking. Nothing but gooch. What is a Kaiju?
Speaker 3:Oh, the age old question. Well, some would say that it's a strange beast. So also some would argue that things like Clifford can be Kaiju. But I disagree, because Clifford is a dog with a hormone disorder and real Kaiju, like Godzilla and Gamera and other names that I'm gonna probably say that no one has a freaking clue what I'm talking about. Like King Ghidorah and Hedorah are actual dogs. Oh, but we also know some who would say that they must be from Japan and it was a Kaiju. Which makes no sense because, technically, ghidorah is from space and in one case, he's from the future. And it's clearly not Japan in the future, and in another one. He's from a horrible of creptian hell dimension.
Speaker 2:So it's a planet X and it actually has a planet with an X on it.
Speaker 3:I'm just saying I'm just saying. I'm just saying I think a certain someone's definition of Kaiju is both far too broad and far too narrow at the same time. That takes a while.
Speaker 2:We're talking about Elijah, right? Your interpretation is what I'm getting.
Speaker 3:Yes, but if you take the literal meaning of the word, which is indeed strange beast, it does leave a lot of room for interpretation.
Speaker 2:It leaves a lot of room. We appreciate it too Large monsters Well in.
Speaker 3:Japanese. Technically, a large monster is a daikai Jew, Because dai dai, if you spell it out in English, is a prefix denoting large or great or big. You know, when you had us on to talk about Power Rangers and Jew Ranger, we were making jokes about daifatan. It literally means great Satan. That's how it usually gets subtitled, At least by shouting. Or you could use it in other terms like daijonsen or daij…. You're an idiot. I thought you were talking about John Johnson there for a second, but okay, I was actually talking about Dwayne Johnson.
Speaker 1:Dwayne huh, he looks like a penis.
Speaker 3:He looks like a walking penis, jesus, I'm trying to say. He has a hole on the top of his head. No, I'm not going to finish that to its natural conclusion.
Speaker 2:He's going to bury that one and keep going.
Speaker 3:We're just going to bury that sh**. This is a very deep swallow, it I can't say that either, although, to transition us, it could be argued, dwayne Johnson is a daijou. I mean, he hung out with daijou in a movie Three of them, true, and he's the size of one.
Speaker 2:Rampage Counts is a daijou film.
Speaker 3:Hmm, yeah, what counts as a daijou film.
Speaker 2:Rampage, rampage. With the John Bell button, gorilla and the alligator, and the wolf.
Speaker 3:Yep, yeah, because I was going to say before, if you follow the word and its meaning to its natural conclusion, if you follow it to its ultimate conclusion, a friggin platypus could be a daijou, because it's a strange beast, right.
Speaker 1:I would know. No, because it's still a natural occurring animal.
Speaker 3:No, nathan, I'm talking Put interrupting me, but I'm so good at it, you are, you know what. You're such a good boy, you are such a good boy and you interrupt people. Really well, I do, but you really need to learn how to sh**. Well, that's TFU too, anyway. But anyway, go ahead. You finish your thought. Nathan, I derailed you about the platypus, no, no, is it? No, I'm not. I'm not, no, is it? The thing is is that there's two ways to approach this question. You can either approach it as what creatures qualify as daijou? There's also the daijou genre. And unfortunately, both are pretty dicey in arguments usually, and two, when you try to pin it down, no one has fully agreed on criteria really for either one. I would say it's easier, maybe, to pin down the daijou genre than what is a daijou period, although then you have to start asking questions like well, how long must the large creature be in the movie to qualify as a quote unquote daijou film, and you know? But what if it's only there at the end of the movie and it's not even the main focus of the movie and it starts getting kind of dicey there. But you know, and then you have to start asking questions, like you know. Going back to power rangers, are the monsters in power rangers kaijou? I mean, they technically start off small they are, but they also start off small, so maybe in the literal definition they are Like a platypus. That's a naturally occurring animal, sir. A weird one, yes, but a naturally occurring animal, it is not strange. Like you literally just said it was weird and you said it's not strange, but it's unusually an animal kingdom which will a naturally occurring animal. Okay, michael, okay Michael. How about I bring up the infamous question that nearly broke all of your podcasts? Are dinosaurs, kaijou? No, no, they are not. The dinosaurs in Jurassic Park are because they're genetically engineered animals. Wait a minute. I don't remember that being your stance before. Have you changed your mind. Well, I've changed my mind. Okay, screw you. Screw you for putting me on the spot.
Speaker 1:You're not allowed to change your mind and have opinions.
Speaker 3:I'm allowed to change my mind. Damn it.
Speaker 2:How dare you have a thought?
Speaker 3:How dare, how dare I go through a season of reflection on whether or not Jurassic Park dinosaurs were actually kaijou or not, like the endominus rex? The endominus rex is a kaijou. The endorector is a kaijou.
Speaker 1:Every day, no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's still Aren't the only other dinosaurs like kaijou because they had to replicate the DNA using other DNA sequences.
Speaker 3:That's a reasonable argument to make, but I would still say not quite. But the fricken endominus has more superpowers than superman, I'm sorry. But that's ridiculous they never existed until it was made genetically engineered. But dinosaurs if you're watching like our planet and you're watching like the dinosaur special on I think it's on Netflix If you're watching that, those are not kaijou, those are just animals, although then it's starting to start getting kind of murky because there are dinosaurs in kaijou movies and you have to start asking do they qualify? Is Angerous a kaijou? Because he's just a big dinosaur.
Speaker 2:He is a pretty large dinosaur. These are good questions.
Speaker 1:Who would you say is being the?
Speaker 2:first kaijou.
Speaker 1:What's the origin of the?
Speaker 2:kaijou King Kong King. Kong is the first credit? Is King Kong the first credit to kaijou?
Speaker 3:I would argue that King Kong is the first kaijou. The first King Kong movie certainly paved the way for how we understand what kaijou are. It's the predecessor to everything. Without King Kong we wouldn't have gotten Godzilla.
Speaker 1:When did King Kong come out? 1933. I was thinking, godzilla came out first, godzilla didn't come until 1950.
Speaker 2:Four Okay.
Speaker 3:Yep, and AG Subariah, who did the special effects on a bunch of Godzilla films in the 50s and 60s, was a massive fan of that movie, had his own personal print of the film, showed it to Haruo Nakajima, who played Godzilla in the suit, as basically telling him I want you to do something like this. And one of the impetuses for making the first Godzilla film was the fact that King Kong had been re-released in Japan, I think in 52 or 53 somewhere there about it was a massive hit. So producer Tomiyuki Tanaka said you know what? We should do something like that.
Speaker 2:Big Lizard with Spice on him, fire Warning everybody about the horrors of nuclear testing.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh. However, the thing that I was going to ask was is there any common themes for Kaiju films, or are they all just kind of broad spectrum?
Speaker 2:Big monsters, big fights.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, it is pretty broad, I would say. You have stuff that really wants to use the monster as a metaphor and get into some really serious stuff, and then other times they're just popcorn flicks, which sounds very reductionist, but you know what I mean. But it's Godzilla vs Kong. Godzilla vs Kong was a popcorn flick, whereas Godzilla minus one, which is what just came out and it became a apparently a darling among even Americans. That movie, some would argue that minus one is Kaiju film. Quote Kaiju film at its quote, purist Right, because it still addresses the nuclear allegory, the tragedy of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and all that. So that is what fans would say is the purist Kaiju film or the purist Godzilla film, because it does use Godzilla as an allegory. But, like Nathan said, you can have films like Godzilla vs Kong, which are just fun, ridiculous films, and you can have Kaiju. What is it? What is that film from SRS Kaiju, super Kaiju, something? Which one? The one with, like the giant octopus and the crab and all that? What is that one I never watched? Kaiju Seafood Wars, kaiju Seafood Wars, which is a Kaiju Seafood Wars Live in Red Lobster.
Speaker 2:Ridiculous comic, you're not too far off, Godzilla's out of cheddar biscuits and he's going to take it out on the nearest thing he gets to.
Speaker 3:You were saying Michael. No, I was just going to say, like Kaiju, like you said, nathan's made Kaiju film. Can Kaiju films can make a, have a broad range of meanings or unmeanings, or just they can cover a lot of stuff Like Shin Godzilla was a direct response to the 311 disasters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the 311 disasters.
Speaker 3:Yeah, most obviously, fukushima. The Fukushima disaster, yeah, the Fukushima disaster, that's the word I was trying to think of, the Fukushima disaster. So Shin Godzilla was a response to that. Okay, yeah, it's a. It's broader than I think some people realize. There are also some that are not and now, unfortunately, these aren't as common as I would like them to be. There are some that aren't even set in present day and have big cities. You know the Dime Machine trilogy from 1966. I believe all three movies were made in 1966. 1966, yeah. And those are set in feudal Japan and the quote unquote Kaiju is a statue that comes to life.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't call that a.
Speaker 3:Kaiju, I would. I wouldn't call that a Kaiju. Call it a gargoyle, I wouldn't call that a Kaiju, I would call that like a. I would call that a Kami, which goes Fair, which goes into another. Yeah, but Kami can be Kaiju. Kami can be Kaiju, but Tom, but that is, but that is, but I would. I would not see Dime Machine, I would call it a Dragon version as a Kaiju, because to me Kaiju are more like, are more akin to animals, or more rep, or more akin to like or or or akin to me. Oh yeah, because King Ghidorah is totally an animal. He's a dragon Nathan, he's a dragon.
Speaker 2:He's a dragon, he's a dragon.
Speaker 1:A ghost base dragon. A ghost base dragon.
Speaker 3:Then why can't? Then why can't Dime Machine be considered? Just because he's a big statue that comes to life. Well because he's more human.
Speaker 2:Like Jeh Jehua.
Speaker 3:I just don't see it.
Speaker 2:No the.
Speaker 3:Gargantua's, sir. So is Frankenstein from Frankenstein Conquer the World, but those are more bigfoot. The Gargantua's are more bigfoot, I would not say. I would not say Frankenstein from Frankenstein Conquer the World is a Kaiju either.
Speaker 1:What is it?
Speaker 3:He's a. What is the word Kaijin? Is it Kai-? No, is that Kaijin or Sh-? Which one is the one from space? Is that Shoujin or Kai-? Sajin Sajin, sorry, sajin Sajin is the one from space. What's the more human one? You had it right, it was Kaijin Kaijin. Okay, so I would say but maybe Strange. Man. So okay, so Dimagen is more of a Kai if you want to like, if you want to, let's split the baby and say that he's more of a Kaijin than a Kaiju. Is it me a little big, though, like 50 feet tall? Oh my god, because when you say Kaijin to me, I think like monsters and Power Rangers are super sentai before me, yeah, but or the monsters that common writer fights, it's true, but it's more human, but Simogen's more humanoid. So I would still argue that he is Kaijin, not Kaiju. Okay, but what about Power Ranger? Monsters, then, are they. Kaiju or Kaijin. They're Kaijin when they're human size, they're Kaiju when they're large. So you're trying to say that they are both. They are they whatever. You're trapped. You're trying to trap me. You're doing good jobs. Dammit, you've talked me into this corner Dammit, dammit, I can admit it when I'm not wrong, but still, at the same time, questioning what I believe.
Speaker 2:Is my name really? Michael Is my name really.
Speaker 3:Michael he's deconstructing his Kaiju fandom right now.
Speaker 1:Well, like you said, like normal animals that just are big, can't be Kaiju. But what about Mothras?
Speaker 3:He's just a big-, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. If the animals are unusually large and that is the only thing that's strange about them I could make the argument that that makes them a Kaiju. So if you see a raccoon hanging out doing normal raccoon things, not a Kaiju. If it gets irradiated and suddenly it's 50 feet tall Kaiju, or its nuts get irradiated and become the Tanuki, then it's a Kaiju. But that's what? Of course Michael would go there.
Speaker 2:What.
Speaker 3:I would love to and along those lines. What I would love to see is Russia should get its own Kaiju, and it needs to be a bear that got a little too close to Chernobyl Wrong time. A giant two-headed bear oh man, we got that with cocaine there. What more do you want? I guess cocaine bear might actually qualify, because how many bears get high on cocaine?
Speaker 1:Let's have to say the scary part that's real, that was based on a true event that for 15 minutes that bear
Speaker 2:was the most apex predator on the planet.
Speaker 3:Until it's heart stopped, and then that's how it died. Well, and then. Okay, here let's complicate it even further. Is Mechagodzilla a Kaiju? He's a robot, yeah he's a robot.
Speaker 2:He's a robot, he's a robot. Yeah, he's a robot, is that?
Speaker 3:a robot via Kaiju.
Speaker 2:No, no, it's man-made yeah man-made.
Speaker 3:What technique does Mechagodzilla make by using it? Well, you know what I mean. Maybe, kaiju, he's mechanical. Yeah, he's mechanical, he's a mechanical, he's a mechanical, there is a term for giant robot which is Mecha or Mech Right. Depending who you talk to. So that's a bit of a related term and sometimes they can kind of overlap. Although then you have Curiu in the Millennium Godzilla series that technically has biological components, including a clone's Godzilla brain. True, true, hmm, we're in the line there a little bit.
Speaker 2:I mean, if it has organic parts, wouldn't that make it a Kaiju?
Speaker 3:I would argue, it would you know it's a cyborg Kaiju at that point. But, it's still a machine. It's not alive.
Speaker 2:So like a general grievous.
Speaker 3:So a giant zombie is not a Kaiju. No, because a giant zombie was once alive and biological. Oh, this is mechanical. Oh, you're doing good there. I like it. I try really hard, guys.
Speaker 2:I studied for this.
Speaker 3:I studied guys. I got one right God. So what's the difference between a?
Speaker 1:Japanese Kaiju and like the Western Kaiju films, like with a Pacific Rim, is there a difference between those?
Speaker 3:Well, a Pacific Rim is an interesting case because it borrows two foreign words and uses them for the names of the giant things in there, although Kaiju is actually now considered a lone word in English and I attribute that in large part to Pacific Rim but all the monsters in that are called Kaiju, and then all the giant robots are called Yeagers, the German word for Hunter he is correct. So I can say the thing is honestly, before Pacific Rim came out, if I said the word Kaiju, unless you were in the know, you didn't know what I was talking about and I have to explain it. That's why I generally said giant monsters. People understand that. Now I throw the word Kaiju around and I rarely get strange looks.
Speaker 2:So Pacific Rim was more like a publicity thing for Kaiju in that whole In large part.
Speaker 3:I would say in large part it was. But it's funny that you asked me what's the difference between the American and Japanese examples, because in the now defunct Kaiju Robin I wrote an article about that and a lot of it. To put it succinctly, it really just boils down to how the monsters are presented. Generally speaking, the American, for example Kaiju, tends to present the monsters more naturalistically and which gives them more otherness. So you watch the movie them from 1954, which is a great movie, I would say.
Speaker 2:Oh well, that's a giant ant.
Speaker 3:Yeah, giant ants, and that's all they are. They're just giant ants doing ant things. They don't have funny names. And all they're trying to do is take a colony and find food and reproduce. They're just doing normal ant things. That just makes them a problem for normal sized humans. So we've got to go find some American food stores and take them out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that movie is basically what I think inspired Earth Defense. Force.
Speaker 3:Probably. Which are one of their many influences. Those games are insane and I love them. But then you look at Godzilla from 1950, also from 1954, and that's given a lot of metaphorical weight. There's at least implications of there being supernatural elements that almost deify Godzilla to a certain extent. So they're treated very differently. They give the monsters names. Like I said, there's a lot of stuff. Another big difference is how they handle certain subjects like science or the bomb, their attitudes toward the military. The American films tend to be more positive towards the military, whereas Japanese films are more indifference because of their history. So, again, like I said, there's a wide breadth of a two-dimensional genre, it's treated like a tragedy. So if you look at two completely different films, you look at Godzilla from 1998, the Roland Emmerich film. When Godzilla dies at the end of that movie, everyone celebrates it's very pro-military, et cetera, et cetera. But if you go back and look at, I would say, if you look at any of the Japanese Godzilla films, specifically 1954, well, these 1954 are an example, but I'm sure there are others that Nathan will pull out his hat in just a second it's treated as seen as a tragedy. Why did this creature have to die? Or why did this creature come only to die a day later, or whatever? So it's just different, it's just treated, it's a different attitude towards the subject matter and I think it comes down to experience. So what Nathan was pointing out was the Japanese have a very reverent look at history. They look. Obviously we're not the ones that I'm not getting preachy here, by no means, but we're not the ones that got a bomb dropped on us. So they're going to have a different experience than we would in terms of how we view militaristic things.
Speaker 2:So it's just a different look, coming out like less than a decade, like a year, like you know, nine years, since Nine years, yeah. The Hiroshima Nagasaki bombs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so what Michael was talking about is that Godzilla is a tragic creature even in the original film because, you can argue he's just as much of a quote unquote victim of the bomb as the Japanese were, because he's decimating cities. But you wouldn't have been doing that if not for the bomb, right? So there's a level of nuance there and I would argue the nuance gets even more multifaceted Later, you know, 10 years later, when Godzilla goes from being this atomic allegory and menace to Japan's greatest hero.
Speaker 2:And then back to a bad guy, then back to a hero.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, later. That's in the nineteen eighty, but still for about 10, for 10 more years after. You know, after the mid sixties, he was practically a super girl, yeah, an atomic powered superhero, which, I can say, just adds a level of irony to it, and I think that comes from outside, that that comes from a little bit of influence from Ultraman and other and other to the Satu property that we're going on at the same time we talk. You know, common writer Ultraman, super Sentai, like very superhero shows, and so toho, just, I mean, even so, zone fire is a really good example, yeah, yeah, which actually had Godzilla in a handful of episodes, right and a couple of other monsters from his movies. Guy, genn and Ghidorah most notably appeared in that show. It was basically a toho Ultraman clone. It's a really good show. I highly recommend it if you're into that kind of thing. It's bonkers. I would say it's more bonkers. I would say it's a lot more bonkers. If you had such a good time, if you guys had such a good time with your Ranger, you're going to have much a good time.
Speaker 2:I need to get more alcohol.
Speaker 3:And here's the insane part. Consider Canada the Godzilla show a series. Oh, here it is.
Speaker 2:Just hanging out there doing God knows what.
Speaker 1:Yep no supervision Yep.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:So for the guys you feel is like you know, they all have, like your human counterparts, like doing things, what is that? Typically the kind of roles that they have in those movies.
Speaker 3:The most common sorts of roles you'll see in those are reporters, scientists and soldiers most often and there was a he didn't necessarily invent all of this, because Godzilla 54 has all those kinds of characters in it. But there was a screenwriter by the name of Shinichi Sekizawa that really took those archetypal characters and ran with them and made them staples of the genre. Now, that isn't to say that every single movie, every single Kaiju film, is like that Infamously. Gamera, the Gamera series, introduced us to children as frequent characters, to varying levels of failure.
Speaker 2:No success, just failure.
Speaker 3:Except for Gamera the Brave. Gamera the Brave is amazing, One of the few Kaiju films that nearly makes me cry. Yeah, that's from 2005, five or six somewhere around there 2006, yeah, 2006, yeah yeah, but those are the ones you'll typically see. There are those. There's also some where you'll see politicians pretty often not usually as primary characters, but politicians are in there because government leaders have to respond to things. Shin Godzilla is probably the most obvious example of politicians as main characters, but there are some where your main characters are just normal people trying to deal with stuff. Godzilla raids, again. It's like they were basically just your main characters were just blue collar people doing their thing, and Godzilla comes in and locks everything up and then they start getting more involved To a certain extent.
Speaker 1:Minus one is like that, other than the fact that most of our characters, while they are civilians now, you used to be soldiers, so that's a little bit of a gray, or you have movies like the one that you you could best test to watch was Godzilla versus Megalon, where you have the crazy science, or I thought they were space people, but they live inside the earth.
Speaker 3:The one you guys really should watch is the door of the three headed monster, because the hero and that is a cop- Not Godzilla or anything. It's just our human. Here are human heroes. A company is trying to protect a foreign princess who may or may not in fact be possessed by an alien. I know that sounds like it shouldn't make sense, but when you actually watch the movie it actually makes sense. Am I right? Michael, You're 100% right. It makes zero sense. Is that the one that has Godzilla or Dan, right?
Speaker 2:Or that is not Godzilla.
Speaker 3:Actually Rodan is interesting because that one it's mostly just regular people, it's people in a small mining town, but he was talking about Ghidorah the three headed monster being Rodan. I think Ghidorah the three headed monster was the first appearance of Rodan within the Godzilla canon Within the book. And his second appearance overall and his second appearance overall, because the first movie was from 1956 and it was a solo film. Well, solo is in like a single species of Rodan.
Speaker 1:Rodan, there was male.
Speaker 3:There were two Rodans, okay, I don't know. Still a better love story than Twilight.
Speaker 2:That's an oldie but a goodie.
Speaker 3:They have this very Shakespearean ending. It's like Romeo and Juliet, except they weren't Starcrush lovers. Basically, what's hilarious is that it happened by accident. So the idea initially is the Rodan's die. They were supposed to die in a volcanic eruption and one of them gets caught and one of the props got caught in the lava and the other was supposed to fly away, but it ended up malfunctioning and it fell down back into the lava. So they wrote lines into the script where they said that the other one just couldn't handle that its mate had died in the lava through itself in there To die with it.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:It's like, oh well, we dropped it. So yeah, it's dead too.
Speaker 3:That could be an urban legend. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:That's like history of the World, part 1, where Mel Brooks comes down as Moses and he's like I bring you these 15 and he drops one of the tablets and he's like these 15. 10. 10 commandments, yeah.
Speaker 3:So those are the kinds. So again, you can see a variety of characters, but you're mostly typically going to see soldiers, scientists and reporters.
Speaker 1:It's really interesting.
Speaker 3:I was just going to say, I was going to point out, and I was just going to point out that it's more often than not, typically your scientists and you're just average Joe's, and you're average Joe's, just they take the roles as the main protagonists. Other. In the Japanese films, rather than in the American films, especially the ones from the 50s, it's typically military personnel that are the leading men and women. A lot of times, although them has a scientist in it who's presented pretty positively. Same thing, actually, in Beast of the 20,000 Fathoms, which was in 1953 and is also one of the key influences on the original Godzilla. In fact, it's freaky how much Godzilla borrows from it. If you watch that movie after seeing the Godzilla 54, you're like oh, my gosh, how much did they? steal from this. It's kind of wild.
Speaker 2:You'd be going to the teens office for academic dishonesty.
Speaker 3:Possibly Another common architect that you will see, but not quite as frequently as the others, is the native girl.
Speaker 2:We've had a few of those too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's true. Got to get the pretty faces in there, because the public must have a pretty face, as Carl Denham would tell us Damn it.
Speaker 1:So, with Kaiju being around since the 30s, essentially with King Kong, what has kept them so popular? How does people just still keep watching Kaiju films?
Speaker 3:There's a multitude of reasons for that. I think it's like a lot of times it's cultural relevance. Kaiju films are a lot of times a reflection of what's going on geopolitically, socially If you look at Godzilla versus Hedera from 1972,. Godzilla versus Hedera from 1972. You're looking at environmentalism. If you take a film also like Godzilla's Revenge from 1969, that also addresses some very. Kaiju also has a lot of cultural context pertaining to children Last key kids, last key kids. Yeah, last key kids Because in the 60s, gone into the 70s there were a lot like working class towns, factory towns, etc. Lots of last key kids. The parents were working a lot more.
Speaker 2:Working a lot more.
Speaker 3:Because Japan in the 60s they exploded economically. They made such a massive turnaround economically after the devastation of the war. Then, basically a decade and a half after the war, once you get to the 60s, it just started taking off like crazy. So there's a lot more money and people are working a lot more. Japan industrialized very quickly, which led to a lot of pollution by the time you get to the 70s and there was legislation that was passed in Japan in the 70s to clean everything up because it just got really that bad. It was tremendous. But the big thing with all monsters Attack or Godzilla's Revenge is much as that film at one point. For a while it was derided, but I think people have come around on it because the premise of the movie is that it doesn't even take place in the Godzilla universe. It more likely takes place in the quote-unquote real world. The main character is a kid who's a latchkey kid. He loves monsters and he fantasizes about going to Monster Island and hanging out with the kaiju, and he does it to cope with his loneliness because he rarely gets to see his parents anyway, and I think that's actually a very sad story. Even though it turns into Home Alone by the end because he ends up getting kidnapped by burglars and shows McCulloch and how to do it. I think what ties the Japanese genre of kaiju film and the American genre of kaiju film and I think this is leading towards was it addresses a lot of the social anxiety of time. The American films, especially during Cold War, and during the Cold War and all the other conflicts that we've had to endure over here, those films still address or even exercise or are a way to cope with the anxieties that were going on in culture at the time, even if it's doing it subtly so. Unlike what a certain Dr Skippa and their style chick would tell you, there are far more than three Godzilla films that are about something, even if all they're doing is just reflecting something interesting that's going on. One of my first article for kaiju ramen was about Okinawa and how I connected everything that was going on in the early to mid 70s with Okinawa to Godzilla versus Mekka Godzilla, which most people especially if you're a modern non-Japanese person you're looking at that thinking, oh, it's just a goofy sci-fi movie. Well, if you know what was going on with Okinawa, it takes place in Okinawa. If you know what was going on with Okinawa at the time, it gets a heck of a lot more interesting because Okinawa, just a few years before this, had been returned by the Americans, who had controlled this in the end of World War.
Speaker 2:II.
Speaker 3:Back to the Japanese. Okinawa and Nailan, japan have a checkered history, to say the least. The argument can be made. Toho made this movie set on Okinawa, which has a very Okinawan monster in it in the form of King Caesar, who's a Shisa statue, which is a deeply Okinawan tradition. A Shisa statue is like a gargoyle that they have all over their houses and all. It's supposed to ward off evil spirits and let the good ones in. That sort of a thing. It's almost like they're saying hey, I know you may not quite like us, but here's a Godzilla movie for you. And then Godzilla, the monster of mainland Japan, and this very Okinawan monster are joining forces to fight an invader together. Okay, huh. So again, it's subtle, but it's still fascinating. When you know all of this stuff and if you know anything about Okinawan culture, the things that, the kind of weird things that you see in the movie, with the priestess who gets an apocalyptic vision that ends up coming true, with mechagodion and all that, that might just seem weird. But if you know Okinawan culture, it actually makes all kinds of sense. That actually is like that. That ended up being one of my favorite. Well, yeah, it ended up being because there was a lot of good articles that came through Kachuron during his time. but that ended up being one of my favorites just because of, like, the cultural significance and it actually made me in to Nathan's credit, not to blow his ego, his already inflated ego, oh, I can't compete with yours, sir, I'm sorry Made me actually appreciate Godzilla versus mechagodion before just a little bit more knowing a little more knowing about more of that culture of context, although I still don't understand how an Okinawan priestess can break out into song and there's a band playing for her.
Speaker 2:You always gotta bring your own accompanying orchestra. I mean, I was an.
Speaker 3:Okinawan priestess, I would hire a full time band that just followed me around and, you know, anytime I had to pray I would hear, like you guys did it and just have them all around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Alright. Lastly, what is a? If you had to choose one, what's your most memorable kaiju battle that you, both of you fight? Oh my god.
Speaker 3:Oh, my god, oh, that's, oh, mmm.
Speaker 2:You broke it.
Speaker 3:Oh my god.
Speaker 2:Oh, mmm, he's in physical pain, don't strain yourself.
Speaker 3:Why must you make him chew? I'm asking a parent who's their favorite child. They're a good parent.
Speaker 2:They're gonna have a hard time.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Aha, I'm starting to average.
Speaker 3:If it's starting to hurt Nathan, just switch positions. Um right master. I hit the button, wrong button. That's the same time, that's the first, the first thing that comes to mind, and some would call it incredibly basic, but I'm going to say the final battle in the train station in Gamera 3 because, it's incredibly intense. It is some of the best Japanese special effects that I have seen in any film. They are Hollywood quality in that it's immaculately shot. It's claustrophobic because it's in a closed environment. There's a lot of stuff going on with the human story at that point where it just all comes together very nice, just amazingly well you know, and everything is just executed and integrated. Just this is a gamma, or 30 gamma or 3 revenge of iris which. I would wish I know. The gamma trilogy from the 90s is quite possibly peak. Kaiju cinema some of the best you're gonna see. I love gamma or the brave to. It's in the, unfortunately in the shadow of that trilogy, but it's amazing for different reasons. But I would put gamma 3 on my Mount Rushmore of Kyden films okay.
Speaker 1:Michael, did you have a spoiler? What was?
Speaker 3:the what was the?
Speaker 1:repeat the question again your favorite of most memorable kaiju battle okay, um he's thinking very hard.
Speaker 3:I should say it's hard. It's hard because there's a lot of it for as much as like, as much as we've consumed, like as much meat, as much kaiju meaty as we've consumed and talked about thousands of hours thousands of hours like you're. I'm thinking they're like sounds like there's like there's a ton of contenders. You got Godzilla versus destroyer, which has its own significance in terms of it being Godzilla dying like literally in his heart explodes and he just dies I would say I would say both of the show of mechagodzilla fights would be in contention both both of the show of mechagodzilla fights will be in contention because they're so beautifully. I feel like especially terror has been. It was beautifully shot. Oh, there's so many great highlights in terror, with, with, with those very low angles that you don't necessarily get a lot of in the in the previous film, you know, monster zero on, monster zero off. The first fight on the moon, no, planet, yeah, with the giant. X, don't giant. X sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry the end of destroy all monsters. The end of destroy all monsters. But I think you know what, just for the, just for the, the fact that it's like that East meets West, I'm gonna go with, like King Kong versus Godzilla the original that the original from sixty six from sixty, the final, their final bout on Mount Fuji. There was, just like they're final, their final bout on Mount Fuji. Now I will admit King Kong versus Godzilla is not one that I go back to a lot, but there is a lot of. If you look into that film and its history and how it came about, there is a lot of interesting little nuggets that you can pull from that. It is literally East meets West and the argument has been had over and over. I think it's fascinating that the list of fans talk about did, did. Did Kong win, or did Godzilla win, or did like big cuz, did Godzilla die, or whatever. Obviously we know Godzilla didn't die, but you know who won in that battle. So I, my fans, has always been the one you see walking away from the fight, still standing is the winner and that's Kong. But the argument also could be that Godzilla swam away because Godzilla is very aquatic. So it's awesome, like, but. But I'm just gonna go with that one, just because I need something to. I need something to talk about, plus that it's cultural. It's cultural significance of East meeting West. Okay, it's not. That film is not the first Kaiju fight, at least in the Godzilla series for sure, because you had that with Raid again. But I would argue it defined what Kaiju fights were going forward, because it's absolutely well and fun and fun fact, there is a. There is a spot in use of a wrestling term where Kong judo flips Godzilla, hover Row. Nakajima was still in the suit when they did that yeah going forward if they did a movie that was not. That was not an empty suit, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was just like going forward. Whenever they did maneuvers like that, it was with an empty suit. But no, nakajima was still in that. So when you watch that movie and you see ninja monkey right over the right over the back, there's still a human being in that suit. That's pretty impressive. Hover Row Nakajima was hardcore and, believe it or not, he only ever, if he play he played Godzilla for 18 years over the course of well movies and a bunch of other Kaiju and other films and on TV. He only ever got injured once, and that was actually not in a Godzilla, they was in verandah. It was in verandah unbelievable because they were supposed to set an exploding truck off under his belly and it was a little closer to his groin oh, fire fire fire, fire fire and just like that you're a tenor in the boys fire hey but now it's like there's just too many, there's just too many to pick from like honestly, and that sounds like a like, sounds like a bullshit, cop out, but there are, just it it's just a ton of the, and they all have their own relevance. Like you look like Godzilla versus Hetera, the final battle for that film is also just wild and crazy and weird, sorry, I was like a delivery to Geigen is the first, is the first instance, is the first instance where we see Godzilla bleed. It's just wild if it bleeds. It also kind of depends on what you're looking for. If you want here just absolute, just crazy fun, but the last 30 minutes of Godzilla versus Megalons gonna make you very happy, because it's just insane, you know, or if you. But if you want something with more artistry, there's other examples, you could go to any. Yeah, it just really boils down to what you're looking for okay.
Speaker 1:Well, we're about to wrap this episode up, but we appreciate y'all coming on and telling us and instructing our audience what a kaiju is and the history behind it certainly.
Speaker 2:Well, it's a kaiju.
Speaker 3:Kaiju can take. Kaiju can take a lot of different form. You know, godzilla, gamera, king Kong, rosie O'Donnells, jason Statham, the.
Speaker 1:Rock.
Speaker 3:Arnold Schultz, vega, all those, all those. But yeah, it's whatever. Whatever your interpretation is, I'm not gonna sit here and say that you're wrong. Unless you're because someone we know, unless you're someone we know like, because it really really is like we, I think I want to. I kind of want to land the plane with kind of circling back to where we started. It is really up to interpretation, because the the name kaiju is so malleable that it is difficult to just really pin down what the word actually should mean and does mean, which I think goes back to just how the Japanese language is. It's. There's a level of ambiguity and nuance with the Japanese language because you can change the meaning or the connotation just by your flexion or your tone in the language and also, if you're writing out kanji, you can. You can change the meaning just by making slight alterations, for what I understand, to some of the kanji. So it it's a it's a very nuanced language in that regard, you know and there's a level of ambiguity to it, which is why I think the Japanese, and culturally speaking, are more comfortable with ambiguities and a lot of Westerners.
Speaker 1:All right, well, before we go, did you want to plug your other podcast real quick?
Speaker 3:Go for it, Michael. Okay, so if you're familiar with mine and Nathan's work on the Power Trip podcast, that journey through the Power Rangers franchise, there's two scenes that there's two whole seasons that you can listen to, For season one covers everything MMPR, Peru, Cosmic Fury no, Dino Fury. Dino Fury. Sorry, dino Fury. We even covered Alpha's Magical Christmas. Alpha's Magical Freakin' Christmas. And then these two covers the Boom Studios comic books, a couple of like obscure, more obscure comic books, and then some Super Sentai as well, and then, of course, cosmic Fury, and then we've got a new episode, or we've been delayed for a very long time, but we've got our final, final, final episodes coming out very soon, as soon as Nathan finishes that edit.
Speaker 1:I volunteered to distribute.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you volunteered to distribute. I appreciate you, buddy.
Speaker 1:Outside of that, I don't have any, and we also did we also did Once and Always.
Speaker 3:Once and Always, that's right. We talked about a one hour special for three hours? Sure did. There was lots of unpack there and outside of that I don't have a lot going on. The Monsters of Attitude relevant to this episode. The Monsters of Attitude YouTube channel where me and a bunch of friends of mine Eric Stoltz, adrian Settle, joe Myers and Elijah Thomas and others get together. We talk about Kaiju Movies, tv Collectibles. We just had our Figure of the Year show where we talked about like Collectible of the Year, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2:Michael.
Speaker 3:Michael, I missed that. What was the Figure of the Year? Oh, Figure of the Year was the Spiral Studios burning Godzilla. Of course, of course it was the big light up, no one was there, so we've got that Right. We've got that. We got that recorded. You can go watch that. We've got another episode being recorded this weekend where we're going to talk about Monarch Legacy of Monsters. That's going to be a good show. It's going to be a small crew on that show, but it's just going to be like the main guys me, joe, eric and. Adrian on that show, just talking about Monarch Legacy of Monsters, which was a fantastic show. I enjoyed the hell out of it. Outside of that, not a whole lot going on. Nathan, go ahead and do Shameless Self-promotion, shameless Self-promotion. Yeah, so I am the host and curator of the Monster Island Film Vault. The podcast Shaking Entertainment and Enlightenment, who took us out to it, focuses mostly on film. We've dabbled in television a few times. Michael has been a frequent guest on there. I don't have a set co-host. I have a rotating roster of guest hosts.
Speaker 2:We've talked some.
Speaker 3:Power Rangers on there. Actually, Michael, your first appearance on the show was for Dogara. If I remember correctly, it was indeed that semi-obscure Toho film from 1964. We had a good time about that. We talked about Yakuza and Lovecrafty and Octopus Monsters from Space. It's a tentacle porn, oh yeah. We got into all kinds of things All of it, yeah, and it also includes some audio drama vignettes that developed very organically, and Michael has at one point played about a quarter of the cast. Loves being the bad guy.
Speaker 2:Loves, I'm a natural heal.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, you are. And there's one quite epic episode it was my second season finale where we talked about the Italian film made in Canada Figure that out when Michael did full tilt method acting and actually got drunk on the air and somehow did break character. Some of my best work, guys. It is a big podcasting right there and, according to my podcast host analytics, one of my top 10 most popular episodes.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 3:And I was also the cohost of pension men, which was a super hero TV podcast, was mostly focused on the original comment writer. Because it's 98 freaking episodes, I branched out and talked about a few other things, still mostly comment writer focused. That show is being retired along with the power trip, unfortunately, michael and I do have at least one more beyond the one that has been released, one more episode plan for the power trip, but my plan is to start up a spin off slash sequel to both of those shows, which I will once I've ironed out some more details about that. I'll be sure to let everybody know. And then, obviously, I'm one of the many actors and Carl Dutton's Scyther podcast stable. I played, most infamously, the burrito on Power Rangers the audio drama, and I just made my debut on X Men, the audio drama. As of all people, that bull and I will be appearing in an upcoming episode of Avengers, the audio drama, which is a spin off from the X Men show that one of Carl's friends is doing as Johnny Storm baby. So you know that's going to be fun. Yeah who's going for the low hanging balls now? I'm just saying so you guys are going to have a very busy year. Yeah, I'm always busy when you're talking about and then, if you want to, I'm also a writer as well as a podcaster, and if you want to check up my writings, my books, all that fun stuff, go to my author website, nathanjsmartincom and MonsterIslandFoneVaultcom, which, and both those websites, will give you links to all the socials for all of those things. Or will they? Hmm, or will they? Or yes, they will yes, they will yes. Quite, that was a great writings of Charles Cumbquat.
Speaker 2:Charles Cumbquat, there it is. It all comes full circle now Because Charles Cumbquat is going to have to be something in something I write we're going to have to be something in something.
Speaker 1:I write.
Speaker 3:Charles Cumbquat will be WAC3's best friends and stuff from college or something. This old roommate, this old roommate Well, hello, charles Cumbquat. It's been years since I've seen you old boy Charles, all right, well, that's all we have for this episode. You have me, mitch, you have Tom and you have me. Mitch.
Speaker 1:You have. Tom, you have me, mitch and Michael and Nathan.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, michael, nathan, yeah, and we'll catch you next time. The gang's all here. We'll catch you next time.