{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"ScrumOrg Marketing","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.96,"body":"Music."},{"speaker":"ScrumOrg Marketing","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.96,"body":"Welcome to the scrum.org"},{"speaker":"ScrumOrg Marketing","startTime":4.32,"endTime":8.52,"body":"community podcast, a podcast"},{"speaker":"ScrumOrg Marketing","startTime":4.32,"endTime":8.52,"body":"from the home of Scrum. In this"},{"speaker":"ScrumOrg Marketing","startTime":8.52,"endTime":11.64,"body":"podcast, we feature professional"},{"speaker":"ScrumOrg Marketing","startTime":8.52,"endTime":11.64,"body":"scrum trainers and other scrum"},{"speaker":"ScrumOrg Marketing","startTime":11.64,"endTime":15.06,"body":"practitioners sharing their"},{"speaker":"ScrumOrg Marketing","startTime":11.64,"endTime":15.06,"body":"stories and experiences to help"},{"speaker":"ScrumOrg Marketing","startTime":15.06,"endTime":18.66,"body":"learn from the experience of"},{"speaker":"ScrumOrg Marketing","startTime":15.06,"endTime":18.66,"body":"others. We hope you enjoy this"},{"speaker":"ScrumOrg Marketing","startTime":18.66,"endTime":20.66,"body":"episode. Hello"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":20.66,"endTime":23.54,"body":"and welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":20.66,"endTime":23.54,"body":"scrum.org community podcast. I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":23.54,"endTime":27.98,"body":"your host, Dave. We're CEO"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":23.54,"endTime":27.98,"body":"here@scrum.org today's podcast"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":27.98,"endTime":32.36,"body":"is in the scrum master Real Talk"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":27.98,"endTime":32.36,"body":"series. It's a special series"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":32.36,"endTime":35.72,"body":"where we want to hear from scrum"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":32.36,"endTime":35.72,"body":"master sharing personal stories,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":36.02,"endTime":38.78,"body":"whether it's overcoming"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":36.02,"endTime":38.78,"body":"obstacles, creating solutions,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":38.78,"endTime":42.58,"body":"or critical lessons they've"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":38.78,"endTime":42.58,"body":"learned during their during"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":42.58,"endTime":47.44,"body":"their journey, how they helped"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":42.58,"endTime":47.44,"body":"and foster agility in their"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":47.44,"endTime":51.28,"body":"teams they've worked with and"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":47.44,"endTime":51.28,"body":"the organizations today, we're"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":51.28,"endTime":56.8,"body":"incredibly lucky to have Jim"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":51.28,"endTime":56.8,"body":"sparks from Dayton, Ohio in the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":56.8,"endTime":60.46,"body":"United States of America."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":56.8,"endTime":60.46,"body":"Welcome to the podcast,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":60.58,"endTime":64.2,"body":"Jim. Thank you very"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":60.58,"endTime":64.2,"body":"much. It's actually a pleasure"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":64.2,"endTime":66.66,"body":"to be here. Great. Well,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":66.66,"endTime":69.24,"body":"let's you should hold"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":66.66,"endTime":69.24,"body":"that judgment until the end,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":69.24,"endTime":75.24,"body":"Jim, but the being optimistic,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":69.24,"endTime":75.24,"body":"right? First job of every scrum"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":75.24,"endTime":81.08,"body":"master, be an optimist. I think."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":75.24,"endTime":81.08,"body":"Great. So All right, let's start"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":81.08,"endTime":85.52,"body":"at the very beginning. How did"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":81.08,"endTime":85.52,"body":"you become? How do you think you"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":85.52,"endTime":86.78,"body":"become a scrum master? Well,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":88.16,"endTime":91.22,"body":"it was actually very"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":88.16,"endTime":91.22,"body":"accidental. For a little while I"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":91.22,"endTime":93.92,"body":"was, you know, I would call"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":91.22,"endTime":93.92,"body":"myself an accidental Agilist,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":94.22,"endTime":99.38,"body":"because I was a data guy working"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":94.22,"endTime":99.38,"body":"in Teradata SQL Server, that"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":99.38,"endTime":102.88,"body":"type of thing. And the team I"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":99.38,"endTime":102.88,"body":"was starting to work with, the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":102.88,"endTime":108.28,"body":"scrum master was very busy at"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":102.88,"endTime":108.28,"body":"the time. I didn't know any"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":108.28,"endTime":111.1,"body":"better, but I come to find out,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":108.28,"endTime":111.1,"body":"he was doing a lot of things"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":111.1,"endTime":113.86,"body":"that at the time you didn't"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":111.1,"endTime":113.86,"body":"typically expect a scrum master"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":113.92,"endTime":116.62,"body":"to do. So I just started"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":113.92,"endTime":116.62,"body":"volunteering. Hey, I can help"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":116.62,"endTime":119.2,"body":"you with that. Let me help you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":116.62,"endTime":119.2,"body":"with that. How about I help you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":119.2,"endTime":123.36,"body":"with that? And after about four"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":119.2,"endTime":123.36,"body":"to six weeks, he just kind of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":123.36,"endTime":126.6,"body":"checked that and let me go. He"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":123.36,"endTime":126.6,"body":"just kind of said, Here, you do"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":126.6,"endTime":129.6,"body":"it. And he provided oversight"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":126.6,"endTime":129.6,"body":"and training and helped me, you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":129.6,"endTime":133.44,"body":"know, learn as we were going,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":129.6,"endTime":133.44,"body":"but he let me take the reins of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":133.44,"endTime":136.56,"body":"that team and that work on that"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":133.44,"endTime":136.56,"body":"product. So it was pretty"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":136.56,"endTime":140.36,"body":"awesome. At that point, I"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":136.56,"endTime":140.36,"body":"started to learn as much as I"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":140.36,"endTime":144.92,"body":"could. I started to absorb"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":140.36,"endTime":144.92,"body":"knowledge, read books, reading,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":145.04,"endTime":149.96,"body":"you know, the blog articles,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":145.04,"endTime":149.96,"body":"watching videos, a lot of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":150.2,"endTime":154.4,"body":"scrum.org, trainers. Actually, I"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":150.2,"endTime":154.4,"body":"was trying to learn from to get"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":154.4,"endTime":157.16,"body":"better at it, because I really"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":154.4,"endTime":157.16,"body":"fell in love with what I was was"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":157.16,"endTime":165.1,"body":"doing. And the biggest reason I"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":157.16,"endTime":165.1,"body":"really resonated with me was the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":165.1,"endTime":168.4,"body":"servant leadership aspect of it."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":165.1,"endTime":168.4,"body":"I had always that was kind of my"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":168.4,"endTime":171.76,"body":"personality. It's who I was,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":168.4,"endTime":171.76,"body":"it's it's what I am in my DNA"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":171.76,"endTime":174.64,"body":"is, you know, a servant leader"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":171.76,"endTime":174.64,"body":"at heart. And I'd never really"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":174.64,"endTime":177.4,"body":"heard of the term servant leader"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":174.64,"endTime":177.4,"body":"until I started down the scrum"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":177.4,"endTime":181.5,"body":"master path, and then I was"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":177.4,"endTime":181.5,"body":"like, whoa. Someone wants to pay"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":181.5,"endTime":186.3,"body":"me to do what I already do"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":181.5,"endTime":186.3,"body":"anyway. So for me, it was a no"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":186.3,"endTime":189.9,"body":"brainer at the time, so I jumped"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":186.3,"endTime":189.9,"body":"into it with full force, and,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":189.96,"endTime":194.34,"body":"you know, kind of led me to"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":189.96,"endTime":194.34,"body":"here. So I've been through seven"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":194.34,"endTime":199.32,"body":"and a half ish years doing this,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":194.34,"endTime":199.32,"body":"and I love everything about it."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":199.8,"endTime":203.36,"body":"I've learned, different"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":199.8,"endTime":203.36,"body":"industries, different types of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":203.36,"endTime":207.62,"body":"work, been in benefits and"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":203.36,"endTime":207.62,"body":"compensation, HR, cyber"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":207.62,"endTime":212.6,"body":"security, medical device"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":207.62,"endTime":212.6,"body":"industry, a lot of different"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":212.96,"endTime":216.14,"body":"industries, finances. And so you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":212.96,"endTime":216.14,"body":"get to see a little bit of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":216.14,"endTime":221.2,"body":"differences in how people apply"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":216.14,"endTime":221.2,"body":"Scrum and agility in general,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":221.5,"endTime":224.62,"body":"based on where they work. So"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":221.5,"endTime":224.62,"body":"it's kind of fun. It's been a"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":224.62,"endTime":225.52,"body":"lot of fun for me. It's"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":226.18,"endTime":229.0,"body":"been a fun journey."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":226.18,"endTime":229.0,"body":"So, so when you first got into"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":229.06,"endTime":233.08,"body":"the job, as it were, took it,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":229.06,"endTime":233.08,"body":"took over the accountabilities,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":233.14,"endTime":236.44,"body":"incrementally, slowly, from the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":233.14,"endTime":236.44,"body":"scrum master and your team"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":236.8,"endTime":242.34,"body":"working in data, compare how you"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":236.8,"endTime":242.34,"body":"thought the job was then to what"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":242.34,"endTime":246.3,"body":"you think of it now, what did"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":242.34,"endTime":246.3,"body":"you initially think you were"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":246.3,"endTime":247.2,"body":"getting into?"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":251.52,"endTime":254.64,"body":"It's completely"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":251.52,"endTime":254.64,"body":"different. I will say that from"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":254.64,"endTime":259.98,"body":"then to now. And for me, it went"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":254.64,"endTime":259.98,"body":"from a kind of an arc where I"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":259.98,"endTime":262.94,"body":"had these expectations of what"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":259.98,"endTime":262.94,"body":"it would be, you know, the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":262.94,"endTime":267.02,"body":"servant leadership aspect of it,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":262.94,"endTime":267.02,"body":"working in the shadows. I always"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":267.02,"endTime":269.06,"body":"call I've called it that for"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":267.02,"endTime":269.06,"body":"years, working in the shadows."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":269.6,"endTime":272.06,"body":"You know, the goal is always of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":269.6,"endTime":272.06,"body":"a good scrum master, at least it"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":272.06,"endTime":275.6,"body":"was when I first started, was to"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":272.06,"endTime":275.6,"body":"fire yourself to really get your"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":275.6,"endTime":278.12,"body":"team to the point that they're"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":275.6,"endTime":278.12,"body":"completely self organized and"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":278.12,"endTime":282.88,"body":"they can really run without you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":278.12,"endTime":282.88,"body":"there, and that's what I thought"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":282.88,"endTime":286.42,"body":"it was. This is great, because I"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":282.88,"endTime":286.42,"body":"get to help them achieve their"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":286.42,"endTime":290.02,"body":"version of success. And, you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":286.42,"endTime":290.02,"body":"know, maybe slink into the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":290.02,"endTime":293.5,"body":"corner and go off and do that"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":290.02,"endTime":293.5,"body":"with another team. And then"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":294.04,"endTime":295.96,"body":"through the course of my"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":294.04,"endTime":295.96,"body":"journey, I found out there's,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":295.96,"endTime":298.54,"body":"you know, a lot more involved to"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":295.96,"endTime":298.54,"body":"it than just, you know, kind of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":298.54,"endTime":301.8,"body":"slinking away into a corner and."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":298.54,"endTime":301.8,"body":"And servant leadership. And as I"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":301.8,"endTime":305.88,"body":"started to grow and learn, learn"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":301.8,"endTime":305.88,"body":"about delivery, and learn about"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":306.06,"endTime":310.92,"body":"how you can impact delivery of a"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":306.06,"endTime":310.92,"body":"product from you know, your"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":310.92,"endTime":316.56,"body":"position as a scrum master was a"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":310.92,"endTime":316.56,"body":"lot of fun, and now kind of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":316.56,"endTime":320.36,"body":"going on the other end of it,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":316.56,"endTime":320.36,"body":"it's, I feel as if it's shifting"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":320.42,"endTime":325.52,"body":"more focus towards the delivery"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":320.42,"endTime":325.52,"body":"aspect of it as it should, you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":325.52,"endTime":328.1,"body":"know, because you're supporting"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":325.52,"endTime":328.1,"body":"a team that ultimately they're"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":328.1,"endTime":332.0,"body":"there to deliver. So if you can"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":328.1,"endTime":332.0,"body":"enable that and enable their"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":332.0,"endTime":336.26,"body":"success and that delivery of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":332.0,"endTime":336.26,"body":"that product, yes, you can still"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":336.26,"endTime":340.3,"body":"be a great servant leader. Yes,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":336.26,"endTime":340.3,"body":"you can still, you know, be the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":340.3,"endTime":344.2,"body":"person that is everyone looks"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":340.3,"endTime":344.2,"body":"to, and everyone relies on and"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":344.2,"endTime":348.52,"body":"counts on to, to help them. But"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":344.2,"endTime":348.52,"body":"you also have to be able to"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":348.52,"endTime":351.94,"body":"focus on, how do I deliver this"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":348.52,"endTime":351.94,"body":"product from my organization,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":352.6,"endTime":356.08,"body":"which I think back then, it"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":352.6,"endTime":356.08,"body":"wasn't quite as focused on that,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":356.32,"endTime":360.4,"body":"the accountability of Scrum"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":356.32,"endTime":360.4,"body":"Master itself as it is now. So I"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":360.4,"endTime":362.22,"body":"actually love the shift in the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":360.4,"endTime":362.22,"body":"way it's going."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":363.9,"endTime":366.36,"body":"That's interesting,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":363.9,"endTime":366.36,"body":"because obviously the scrum"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":366.36,"endTime":370.2,"body":"guide, we in the 2020, release"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":366.36,"endTime":370.2,"body":"of the scrum guide. Who made the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":370.2,"endTime":375.06,"body":"changes? Well, Ken and Jeff made"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":370.2,"endTime":375.06,"body":"the changes to make the scrum"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":375.06,"endTime":378.6,"body":"master, the whole scrum team"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":375.06,"endTime":378.6,"body":"accountable for delivering"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":378.6,"endTime":384.62,"body":"value. And really tighten that"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":378.6,"endTime":384.62,"body":"up a little bit to make it a lot"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":384.62,"endTime":389.42,"body":"clearer that your focus is"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":384.62,"endTime":389.42,"body":"ultimately where everybody's"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":389.42,"endTime":394.46,"body":"focus is to deliver value, and"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":389.42,"endTime":394.46,"body":"how you do it is focusing on the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":394.46,"endTime":397.22,"body":"accountability, servant"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":394.46,"endTime":397.22,"body":"leadership, serving the team,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":397.34,"endTime":399.8,"body":"serving the organization,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":397.34,"endTime":399.8,"body":"serving the product owner,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":400.22,"endTime":404.32,"body":"obviously, and, and helping"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":400.22,"endTime":404.32,"body":"them, them be successful. So you"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":404.32,"endTime":406.96,"body":"must have been a little bit"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":404.32,"endTime":406.96,"body":"annoyed, Jim, when they took the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":406.96,"endTime":409.42,"body":"word, the phrase, servant"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":406.96,"endTime":409.42,"body":"leadership out of the scrum"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":409.42,"endTime":415.24,"body":"guide in 2020. Must have, you"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":409.42,"endTime":415.24,"body":"know, as you are natural, but,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":415.24,"endTime":419.02,"body":"but, but don't worry, it's still"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":415.24,"endTime":419.02,"body":"kind of conceptually there. We"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":419.02,"endTime":424.02,"body":"just took that, phrase out to"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":419.02,"endTime":424.02,"body":"sort of tone down the servant"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":424.02,"endTime":426.48,"body":"element and emphasize the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":424.02,"endTime":426.48,"body":"leadership element."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":427.14,"endTime":431.22,"body":"And I think that was"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":427.14,"endTime":431.22,"body":"good actually, because I"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":431.28,"endTime":436.02,"body":"honestly, I believe that any"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":431.28,"endTime":436.02,"body":"good, great leader is going to"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":436.02,"endTime":440.18,"body":"have some aspect of that servant"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":436.02,"endTime":440.18,"body":"leadership as part of their"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":440.18,"endTime":444.38,"body":"leadership tool belt, so to"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":440.18,"endTime":444.38,"body":"speak. So the wording to me"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":444.38,"endTime":447.92,"body":"wasn't, it really didn't phase"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":444.38,"endTime":447.92,"body":"me a bit, because as a leader,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":448.16,"endTime":450.98,"body":"that's just who I am. I am a"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":448.16,"endTime":450.98,"body":"servant leader, you know? So"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":450.98,"endTime":455.42,"body":"that I can that's just kind of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":450.98,"endTime":455.42,"body":"my my personality when it comes"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":455.42,"endTime":458.0,"body":"to that. So I think any good"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":455.42,"endTime":458.0,"body":"leader should have some aspect"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":458.0,"endTime":458.12,"body":"of"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":458.12,"endTime":462.7,"body":"that, yeah, yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":458.12,"endTime":462.7,"body":"the reason the motivation was to"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":462.7,"endTime":467.44,"body":"reduce the emphasis on sort of"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":462.7,"endTime":467.44,"body":"like being a team, a person"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":467.44,"endTime":470.44,"body":"basically doing getting the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":467.44,"endTime":470.44,"body":"coffees in, making sure that all"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":470.44,"endTime":473.98,"body":"the things, because those things"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":470.44,"endTime":473.98,"body":"are important, I actually"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":473.98,"endTime":476.68,"body":"sitting here at my desk, I would"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":473.98,"endTime":476.68,"body":"love somebody to go and get me a"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":476.68,"endTime":481.08,"body":"cup of coffee. At the moment,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":476.68,"endTime":481.08,"body":"where's my scrum master? Sorry."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":481.26,"endTime":486.12,"body":"Anyway, the thing is that that"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":481.26,"endTime":486.12,"body":"isn't the focus as what you"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":486.12,"endTime":489.6,"body":"described. Is exactly right,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":486.12,"endTime":489.6,"body":"Jim. The emphasis is to deliver"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":489.6,"endTime":492.96,"body":"an amazing product and create an"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":489.6,"endTime":492.96,"body":"environment for your team to do"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":492.96,"endTime":497.1,"body":"that, and that is the important"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":492.96,"endTime":497.1,"body":"stuff. And you know, if you go"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":497.1,"endTime":500.3,"body":"and get your own coffee, you"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":497.1,"endTime":500.3,"body":"know, which, which is a little"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":500.3,"endTime":502.82,"body":"bit disappointed this and this"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":500.3,"endTime":502.82,"body":"afternoon for me, but that's"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":502.82,"endTime":507.74,"body":"cool. All right. So, so you sort"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":502.82,"endTime":507.74,"body":"of fell into scrum master. It"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":507.74,"endTime":513.26,"body":"sort of fitted your your skills,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":507.74,"endTime":513.26,"body":"your style, your you know, what"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":513.26,"endTime":517.04,"body":"value you want to bring to the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":513.26,"endTime":517.04,"body":"world. As it were, you said you"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":517.16,"endTime":519.86,"body":"worked, you've been working in"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":517.16,"endTime":519.86,"body":"data, and you worked in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":519.86,"endTime":522.22,"body":"different kinds of"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":519.86,"endTime":522.22,"body":"organizations. Can you take me"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":522.22,"endTime":524.26,"body":"through some of those for a"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":522.22,"endTime":524.26,"body":"moment?"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":525.46,"endTime":529.78,"body":"So when I started, I"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":525.46,"endTime":529.78,"body":"was, I was a full time employee"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":529.78,"endTime":534.58,"body":"with a consultancy agency, but"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":529.78,"endTime":534.58,"body":"85% of the work we did was for"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":535.18,"endTime":538.24,"body":"the US government. So we had a"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":535.18,"endTime":538.24,"body":"lot of government experience. A"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":538.24,"endTime":541.08,"body":"lot of working in that"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":538.24,"endTime":541.08,"body":"environment. Everyone knows that"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":541.08,"endTime":543.78,"body":"sometimes there can be a little"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":541.08,"endTime":543.78,"body":"more red tape involved. It can"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":543.78,"endTime":546.78,"body":"be a little more, yeah, a little"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":543.78,"endTime":546.78,"body":"more constricting about how you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":546.78,"endTime":551.34,"body":"do. So I think that, for me, was"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":546.78,"endTime":551.34,"body":"a great experience to learn my"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":551.34,"endTime":554.28,"body":"role, to learn the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":551.34,"endTime":554.28,"body":"accountability of a scrum"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":554.28,"endTime":556.74,"body":"master, to learn how to be a"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":554.28,"endTime":556.74,"body":"great scrum master, because you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":556.74,"endTime":561.32,"body":"had a lot of obstacles. You had"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":556.74,"endTime":561.32,"body":"a lot of impediments that are"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":561.32,"endTime":564.8,"body":"not going to be easy to tackle,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":561.32,"endTime":564.8,"body":"you know, and so working with"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":564.8,"endTime":567.92,"body":"that group and working with that"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":564.8,"endTime":567.92,"body":"team to deliver that was"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":567.92,"endTime":573.62,"body":"awesome, moving from there into"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":567.92,"endTime":573.62,"body":"like web application and develop"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":573.62,"endTime":578.06,"body":"developing mobile apps, working"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":573.62,"endTime":578.06,"body":"with those teams, working With a"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":578.66,"endTime":583.78,"body":"medical devices industry, we"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":578.66,"endTime":583.78,"body":"were doing, going to IoT,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":583.84,"endTime":587.86,"body":"Internet of Things. Everything's"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":583.84,"endTime":587.86,"body":"going to be connected. And we"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":587.86,"endTime":591.94,"body":"had, at the time, we were kind"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":587.86,"endTime":591.94,"body":"of given almost free rein. We"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":591.94,"endTime":594.46,"body":"had, you know, oversight. We had"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":591.94,"endTime":594.46,"body":"our directors were, you know,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":594.46,"endTime":599.92,"body":"we're in there, but we were"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":594.46,"endTime":599.92,"body":"given the run of, here is, you."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":600.0,"endTime":604.26,"body":"Of this thing that here's this"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":600.0,"endTime":604.26,"body":"Scrum, go take this and create"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":604.26,"endTime":608.34,"body":"these products. And the teams"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":604.26,"endTime":608.34,"body":"are awesome. They they really"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":608.34,"endTime":612.24,"body":"thrived in that environment. So"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":608.34,"endTime":612.24,"body":"I got to see that I've been"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":612.24,"endTime":617.28,"body":"through some HR benefits,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":612.24,"endTime":617.28,"body":"compensation teams, been through"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":617.28,"endTime":621.32,"body":"a finances team. It was, it was"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":617.28,"endTime":621.32,"body":"funny there went in as a new"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":621.32,"endTime":626.48,"body":"scrum master, and the first"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":621.32,"endTime":626.48,"body":"thing the the team manager or"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":626.48,"endTime":629.9,"body":"the development manager, said to"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":626.48,"endTime":629.9,"body":"me wasn't, hi, hello. How are"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":629.9,"endTime":633.38,"body":"you? As we don't do Scrum around"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":629.9,"endTime":633.38,"body":"here, first thing he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.4,"endTime":636.98,"body":"said, you're like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.4,"endTime":636.98,"body":"welcome to the team."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":638.36,"endTime":642.4,"body":"So my response being"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":638.36,"endTime":642.4,"body":"who I am. Like, awesome. Why?"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":643.36,"endTime":645.94,"body":"Because that's my typical"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":643.36,"endTime":645.94,"body":"response. I'm a five year old,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":646.0,"endTime":649.54,"body":"so I'll be like, Hey, why? Well,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":646.0,"endTime":649.54,"body":"tell me why. Tell me more. Tell"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":649.54,"endTime":653.32,"body":"me why. And so that was, that"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":649.54,"endTime":653.32,"body":"was an adventure, currently"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":653.32,"endTime":657.4,"body":"working in a cyber security"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":653.32,"endTime":657.4,"body":"space right now. So that's fun"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":657.4,"endTime":663.36,"body":"for me. It's interesting to see"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":657.4,"endTime":663.36,"body":"how we can use, you know, agile,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":664.02,"endTime":667.68,"body":"you know, in Scrum, within a"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":664.02,"endTime":667.68,"body":"cyber environment, because a lot"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":667.68,"endTime":670.5,"body":"of people don't think you can't"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":667.68,"endTime":670.5,"body":"do Scrum and cyber, well, you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":670.5,"endTime":674.52,"body":"can, you know, it's challenging,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":670.5,"endTime":674.52,"body":"but it can be done. So that's"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":674.52,"endTime":676.68,"body":"for me, it's a lot of fun right"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":674.52,"endTime":676.68,"body":"now. That's what my biggest"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":676.68,"endTime":678.66,"body":"challenge right now is, making"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":676.68,"endTime":678.66,"body":"sure they get it."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":679.68,"endTime":681.8,"body":"So take you back to"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":679.68,"endTime":681.8,"body":"that. You went into the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":681.8,"endTime":685.1,"body":"organization and they said, we"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":681.8,"endTime":685.1,"body":"don't do Scrum. Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":685.1,"endTime":690.86,"body":"team. So you said, why? You then"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":685.1,"endTime":690.86,"body":"unpacked what he meant by not"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":690.86,"endTime":695.9,"body":"doing Scrum. And then what did"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":690.86,"endTime":695.9,"body":"you do next? Did you just sort"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":695.9,"endTime":699.02,"body":"of okay? So what are you trying"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":695.9,"endTime":699.02,"body":"to do? What's the outcomes"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":699.02,"endTime":702.34,"body":"you're achieving? What was, what"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":699.02,"endTime":702.34,"body":"was your natural response to"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":702.34,"endTime":702.88,"body":"that jam?"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":704.32,"endTime":708.16,"body":"I wanted to sit down"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":704.32,"endTime":708.16,"body":"and talk to the this, the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":708.22,"endTime":712.18,"body":"manager who obviously everyone"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":708.22,"endTime":712.18,"body":"looked up to, and the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":712.18,"endTime":716.14,"body":"organization was supportive of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":712.18,"endTime":716.14,"body":"agility and supportive of Scrum."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":716.56,"endTime":719.68,"body":"It's just this pocket this team"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":716.56,"endTime":719.68,"body":"was like, ah, we don't do Scrum."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":719.8,"endTime":723.84,"body":"And so I wanted to kind of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":719.8,"endTime":723.84,"body":"understand what their concerns"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":723.84,"endTime":727.8,"body":"were and why. You know, if the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":723.84,"endTime":727.8,"body":"organization believes in Scrum,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":727.8,"endTime":732.9,"body":"the organization is supportive"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":727.8,"endTime":732.9,"body":"of, you know, Scrum, why is this"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":732.9,"endTime":736.32,"body":"pocket of it, not a fan of it?"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":732.9,"endTime":736.32,"body":"Why are they not implementing"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":736.32,"endTime":740.9,"body":"it, either correctly or at all?"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":736.32,"endTime":740.9,"body":"So talk to him for a little bit."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":740.9,"endTime":746.42,"body":"And they had experienced, you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":740.9,"endTime":746.42,"body":"know, the, I guess you could"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":746.42,"endTime":749.24,"body":"say, you know, the scrum master"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":746.42,"endTime":749.24,"body":"that comes in and says, You have"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":749.24,"endTime":755.18,"body":"to scrum buy the book every"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":749.24,"endTime":755.18,"body":"single letter, and not giving"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":755.18,"endTime":758.9,"body":"any flexibility for the team to"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":755.18,"endTime":758.9,"body":"really grow into it and learn"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":759.26,"endTime":763.18,"body":"how to do it. Well, it was a,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":759.26,"endTime":763.18,"body":"you know, a very P's and Q's,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":763.24,"endTime":767.5,"body":"you know, your your time boxes"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":763.24,"endTime":767.5,"body":"are on the dot, and that it just"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":767.68,"endTime":771.04,"body":"they took it a little too far."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":767.68,"endTime":771.04,"body":"So they had experienced some of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":771.04,"endTime":774.04,"body":"that, and it didn't work for"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":771.04,"endTime":774.04,"body":"them. And maybe that's why there"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":774.04,"endTime":776.5,"body":"wasn't a scrum master on that"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":774.04,"endTime":776.5,"body":"team at the time, I don't know."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":776.5,"endTime":781.02,"body":"But so we started to develop the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":776.5,"endTime":781.02,"body":"relationship where, you know, a"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":781.08,"endTime":784.8,"body":"very collaborative relationship"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":781.08,"endTime":784.8,"body":"just explaining the value, you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":784.8,"endTime":788.22,"body":"know, what you can see, and"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":784.8,"endTime":788.22,"body":"start to fine tune some of the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":788.22,"endTime":792.12,"body":"anti patterns that were there"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":788.22,"endTime":792.12,"body":"and get them to where they were"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":792.12,"endTime":794.46,"body":"at least comfortable saying,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":792.12,"endTime":794.46,"body":"Yeah, we do Scrum,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":795.3,"endTime":800.36,"body":"yeah. I think that"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":795.3,"endTime":800.36,"body":"sometimes some of those, some of"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":800.36,"endTime":803.18,"body":"those, some of those people can"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":800.36,"endTime":803.18,"body":"actually ultimately become the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":803.18,"endTime":806.84,"body":"biggest advocates. There was a I"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":803.18,"endTime":806.84,"body":"was working with CRISPR"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":806.84,"endTime":812.06,"body":"therapeutics, and the person"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":806.84,"endTime":812.06,"body":"that was doing Scrum the scrum"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":812.06,"endTime":816.08,"body":"master was awful, is awful,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":812.06,"endTime":816.08,"body":"awfully. Bought in. He was"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":816.08,"endTime":820.3,"body":"really positive. And then he got"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":816.08,"endTime":820.3,"body":"moved into something else, and"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":820.3,"endTime":825.22,"body":"he brought this other guy who"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":820.3,"endTime":825.22,"body":"was PhD, but was also a an ex"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":825.22,"endTime":830.38,"body":"fireman, and he was so cynical,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":825.22,"endTime":830.38,"body":"and it was just hilarious. And"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":830.74,"endTime":835.42,"body":"now we meet for dinner once a"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":830.74,"endTime":835.42,"body":"quarter. He's like the biggest"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":835.42,"endTime":839.32,"body":"advocate. He's gone into a"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":835.42,"endTime":839.32,"body":"different role in in a different"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":839.32,"endTime":842.94,"body":"organization, but he brings all"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":839.32,"endTime":842.94,"body":"of those practices. He's become"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":842.94,"endTime":846.54,"body":"the biggest advocate. So So"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":842.94,"endTime":846.54,"body":"sometimes those situations"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":846.54,"endTime":849.84,"body":"aren't necessarily the worst."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":846.54,"endTime":849.84,"body":"Did you get them? Did you, in"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":849.84,"endTime":852.42,"body":"the end, get them doing at least"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":849.84,"endTime":852.42,"body":"something that looked a little"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":852.42,"endTime":854.1,"body":"bit about Scrum? Yes,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":854.94,"endTime":858.3,"body":"they, for me, the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":854.94,"endTime":858.3,"body":"biggest win was when we went"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":858.3,"endTime":862.58,"body":"into our daily scrum, people"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":858.3,"endTime":862.58,"body":"were actually communicating and"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":862.58,"endTime":865.7,"body":"collaborating, and they were"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":862.58,"endTime":865.7,"body":"using it for what it was"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":865.7,"endTime":868.88,"body":"intended for. And they were"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":865.7,"endTime":868.88,"body":"actually turning their cameras"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":868.88,"endTime":873.08,"body":"on. So that for me, I went in"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":868.88,"endTime":873.08,"body":"and I faced, you know, when you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":873.08,"endTime":877.94,"body":"go into a room, a virtual room,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":873.08,"endTime":877.94,"body":"and you face a wall of boxes"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":877.94,"endTime":880.72,"body":"with just a little bubble of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":877.94,"endTime":880.72,"body":"each person in there versus up,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":881.14,"endTime":883.54,"body":"and they were actually"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":881.14,"endTime":883.54,"body":"communicating and talking, and"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":883.54,"endTime":886.42,"body":"so that was a win. That was"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":883.54,"endTime":886.42,"body":"huge. But yes, they they were"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":886.42,"endTime":889.18,"body":"down that they were headed down"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":886.42,"endTime":889.18,"body":"that path. That's"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":889.18,"endTime":891.76,"body":"awesome, that's,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":889.18,"endTime":891.76,"body":"that's, that's, that's good. You"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":891.76,"endTime":894.76,"body":"never know. One day one of them"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":891.76,"endTime":894.76,"body":"might be on a call like this."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":895.24,"endTime":899.5,"body":"Um, alright, so you've had a"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":895.24,"endTime":899.5,"body":"varied sort of over this seven"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":899.5,"endTime":904.92,"body":"and a half. Half years of a"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":899.5,"endTime":904.92,"body":"varied set of experiences around"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":904.92,"endTime":908.16,"body":"Scrum. What would you say the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":904.92,"endTime":908.16,"body":"biggest challenge you've faced"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":908.16,"endTime":914.04,"body":"as a scrum master? Was it the we"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":908.16,"endTime":914.04,"body":"don't do no damn Scrum? Or was"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":914.04,"endTime":917.16,"body":"it the that was me trying to do"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":914.04,"endTime":917.16,"body":"an American accent? I do"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":917.16,"endTime":921.38,"body":"apologize for you and our"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":917.16,"endTime":921.38,"body":"listeners. That was awful. I've"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":921.38,"endTime":926.6,"body":"lived here 2324 years, and I"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":921.38,"endTime":926.6,"body":"still can't do it. That's almost"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":926.6,"endTime":930.98,"body":"25 years anyway, so sorry about"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":926.6,"endTime":930.98,"body":"that. We aren't doing any Scrum."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":931.04,"endTime":934.04,"body":"Or is it something, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":931.04,"endTime":934.04,"body":"something else. Tell me a little"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":934.04,"endTime":937.34,"body":"bit about some of the challenges"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":934.04,"endTime":937.34,"body":"that you've you've faced."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":938.54,"endTime":942.16,"body":"I think for me, one"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":938.54,"endTime":942.16,"body":"of the biggest challenges is"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":942.16,"endTime":947.62,"body":"that leading without authority."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":942.16,"endTime":947.62,"body":"And one of the kind of the the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":947.62,"endTime":951.34,"body":"way, least the way I've noticed"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":947.62,"endTime":951.34,"body":"the industry leading a little"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":951.34,"endTime":955.24,"body":"bit is, you know, having a scrum"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":951.34,"endTime":955.24,"body":"master, or having a manager of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":955.24,"endTime":958.18,"body":"some sort take on the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":955.24,"endTime":958.18,"body":"accountability of a scrum"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":958.18,"endTime":962.16,"body":"master, because they have some"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":958.18,"endTime":962.16,"body":"authority, whether I don't know"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":962.16,"endTime":965.22,"body":"that I'm 100% on board with that"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":962.16,"endTime":965.22,"body":"yet or not, I'm still kind of,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":965.28,"endTime":968.34,"body":"you know, the jury's still out."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":965.28,"endTime":968.34,"body":"But I think that the leading"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":968.34,"endTime":971.52,"body":"without authority tends to be"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":968.34,"endTime":971.52,"body":"the biggest challenge for me,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":971.52,"endTime":975.78,"body":"because you go into an"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":971.52,"endTime":975.78,"body":"organization or a team where"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":975.84,"endTime":979.38,"body":"they're holding on to the old"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":975.84,"endTime":979.38,"body":"anti patterns that have caused"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":979.38,"endTime":983.36,"body":"them, you know, heartburn, and"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":979.38,"endTime":983.36,"body":"you don't have the authority to"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":983.36,"endTime":985.7,"body":"come in and just say, Okay,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":983.36,"endTime":985.7,"body":"we're going to stop all of that"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":985.7,"endTime":989.3,"body":"craziness right now, and we're"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":985.7,"endTime":989.3,"body":"going to try something like"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":989.3,"endTime":995.06,"body":"this. So I would do that like,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":989.3,"endTime":995.06,"body":"hey, let's try something new."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":995.06,"endTime":997.94,"body":"But I don't have the authority"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":995.06,"endTime":997.94,"body":"to say we're done with that. So"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":997.94,"endTime":1002.04,"body":"you have to, you have to be able"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":997.94,"endTime":1002.04,"body":"to experience the team, where"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1002.04,"endTime":1004.32,"body":"they are. You have to get in"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1002.04,"endTime":1004.32,"body":"there and meet them, collaborate"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1004.32,"endTime":1007.86,"body":"with them, build that rapport so"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1004.32,"endTime":1007.86,"body":"that they want to follow you,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1007.86,"endTime":1011.94,"body":"follow you. Create that value,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1007.86,"endTime":1011.94,"body":"create that vision of why you're"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1011.94,"endTime":1016.02,"body":"headed this direction, to really"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1011.94,"endTime":1016.02,"body":"pull them along with you,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1016.5,"endTime":1020.88,"body":"whereas if you are a manager or"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1016.5,"endTime":1020.88,"body":"you're trying to push them, you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1020.88,"endTime":1023.18,"body":"know. So I think that's been the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1020.88,"endTime":1023.18,"body":"biggest challenge for me, is to"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1023.18,"endTime":1025.88,"body":"kind of pull them with me,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1023.18,"endTime":1025.88,"body":"versus having authority to push"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1025.88,"endTime":1026.96,"body":"them a direction."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1027.62,"endTime":1031.76,"body":"Yeah. I mean, I I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1027.62,"endTime":1031.76,"body":"100% I believe that Scrum"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1031.76,"endTime":1035.3,"body":"Masters ultimately have to have"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1031.76,"endTime":1035.3,"body":"the authority. And the reason"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1035.3,"endTime":1039.38,"body":"why is exactly the story that"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1035.3,"endTime":1039.38,"body":"you described. You know, the the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1039.38,"endTime":1042.52,"body":"most powerful situations are,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1039.38,"endTime":1042.52,"body":"you know, change. Situations"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1042.52,"endTime":1046.72,"body":"I've ever encountered are ones"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1042.52,"endTime":1046.72,"body":"when the person, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1046.72,"endTime":1049.66,"body":"boss, says, Okay, we're not"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1046.72,"endTime":1049.66,"body":"going to do that anymore, then"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1049.66,"endTime":1053.08,"body":"we're going to do this. And if"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1049.66,"endTime":1053.08,"body":"it doesn't work, we're going to"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1053.08,"endTime":1057.04,"body":"learn from it, but we're going"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1053.08,"endTime":1057.04,"body":"to try. And those situations are"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1057.28,"endTime":1061.44,"body":"very hard to do when you have"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1057.28,"endTime":1061.44,"body":"to. And I know you can persuade"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1061.44,"endTime":1065.58,"body":"everybody, and you can influence"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1061.44,"endTime":1065.58,"body":"and all this stuff, but, but,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1065.7,"endTime":1069.12,"body":"but impediments. And it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1065.7,"endTime":1069.12,"body":"have to be as big as that. It"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1069.12,"endTime":1072.6,"body":"could be just one small"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1069.12,"endTime":1072.6,"body":"impediment in when you when the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1072.6,"endTime":1076.02,"body":"when the team themselves have"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1072.6,"endTime":1076.02,"body":"not got the ability to remove an"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1076.38,"endTime":1080.34,"body":"impediment and and it's obvious"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1076.38,"endTime":1080.34,"body":"that needs to be removed, then"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1080.64,"endTime":1084.14,"body":"it and you not having that"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1080.64,"endTime":1084.14,"body":"authority is incredibly"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1084.14,"endTime":1087.62,"body":"disappointing and really"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1084.14,"endTime":1087.62,"body":"illustrates what the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1087.68,"endTime":1092.18,"body":"organization thinks of Scrum."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1087.68,"endTime":1092.18,"body":"Yeah, they trust Scrum, but only"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1092.18,"endTime":1094.82,"body":"to some extent. They've still"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1092.18,"endTime":1094.82,"body":"got the original, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1094.82,"endTime":1100.9,"body":"hierarchical managers in place."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1094.82,"endTime":1100.9,"body":"So I'm a big fan of having"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1100.9,"endTime":1105.04,"body":"authority. I don't believe it"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1100.9,"endTime":1105.04,"body":"reduces transparency. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1105.04,"endTime":1108.28,"body":"it's a risk, but I think it's a"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1105.04,"endTime":1108.28,"body":"risk that can be easily managed."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1108.52,"endTime":1113.92,"body":"And I ultimately think that it"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1108.52,"endTime":1113.92,"body":"also, I hate to say it, but it"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1113.92,"endTime":1116.98,"body":"allows you to get paid"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1113.92,"endTime":1116.98,"body":"appropriately. It allows, you"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1116.98,"endTime":1120.84,"body":"know, all of those, all of those"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1116.98,"endTime":1120.84,"body":"things happen as well. Big fan"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1120.84,"endTime":1126.0,"body":"of that, and it is very"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1120.84,"endTime":1126.0,"body":"challenging to over overcome."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1126.0,"endTime":1128.28,"body":"So, all right, so we're, we're"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1126.0,"endTime":1128.28,"body":"moving towards the end. We try"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1128.28,"endTime":1131.88,"body":"to keep these brief. And Jim, I"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1128.28,"endTime":1131.88,"body":"could, I could ask you questions"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1131.94,"endTime":1138.18,"body":"all all day. I'm sure you've got"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1131.94,"endTime":1138.18,"body":"lots of insights, but, but, all"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1138.18,"endTime":1144.26,"body":"right, so I'm a scrum master"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1138.18,"endTime":1144.26,"body":"listening to this, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1144.5,"endTime":1149.18,"body":"maybe I'm new to the role. What"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1144.5,"endTime":1149.18,"body":"advice would you give? Give me"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1153.38,"endTime":1157.46,"body":"the two pieces of"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1153.38,"endTime":1157.46,"body":"advice. I think that there are"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1157.46,"endTime":1162.1,"body":"things that have helped me the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1157.46,"endTime":1162.1,"body":"most along my career so far is"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1162.1,"endTime":1167.14,"body":"one never stop learning whether"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1162.1,"endTime":1167.14,"body":"you read, whether you're"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1167.14,"endTime":1170.8,"body":"watching a video, whether you're"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1167.14,"endTime":1170.8,"body":"listening to a podcast, whether"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1170.8,"endTime":1173.92,"body":"you're taking a course, whatever"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1170.8,"endTime":1173.92,"body":"it is. Always have that"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1173.92,"endTime":1177.94,"body":"relentless desire to learn and"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1173.92,"endTime":1177.94,"body":"get better and perfect your"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1177.94,"endTime":1182.46,"body":"craft and realize that you're"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1177.94,"endTime":1182.46,"body":"never done. Don't ever get to"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1182.46,"endTime":1185.4,"body":"the I'm there. I've made it"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1182.46,"endTime":1185.4,"body":"point, because you've never made"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1185.4,"endTime":1189.72,"body":"it, and you know you never will"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1185.4,"endTime":1189.72,"body":"make it. So keep that in mind."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1189.72,"endTime":1193.14,"body":"Learn as you go, try to get"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1189.72,"endTime":1193.14,"body":"better. And the other piece I"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1193.14,"endTime":1197.1,"body":"would offer is build your"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1193.14,"endTime":1197.1,"body":"network. And this is somewhat"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1197.1,"endTime":1200.48,"body":"related to what we just talked"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1197.1,"endTime":1200.48,"body":"about. And while you don't. Have"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1200.48,"endTime":1204.2,"body":"the authority to go out there"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1200.48,"endTime":1204.2,"body":"and maybe put your foot in the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1204.2,"endTime":1208.7,"body":"ground and say, This is how it"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1204.2,"endTime":1208.7,"body":"is. If you build your network,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1208.7,"endTime":1212.12,"body":"and you've built that rapport,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1208.7,"endTime":1212.12,"body":"and you have people that trust"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1212.12,"endTime":1215.9,"body":"you, that have that authority,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1212.12,"endTime":1215.9,"body":"and can put that flag in the"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1215.9,"endTime":1219.62,"body":"ground and say, this is the way,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1215.9,"endTime":1219.62,"body":"and you can have some, some"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1220.4,"endTime":1223.96,"body":"element of influence with them"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1220.4,"endTime":1223.96,"body":"that helps you along your"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1223.96,"endTime":1227.14,"body":"journey. So don't be afraid to"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1223.96,"endTime":1227.14,"body":"go external to your team, go"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1227.14,"endTime":1230.56,"body":"outside of your team and build"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1227.14,"endTime":1230.56,"body":"that network. That is how you're"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1230.56,"endTime":1233.08,"body":"really going to be able to"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1230.56,"endTime":1233.08,"body":"support your teams and enable"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1233.08,"endTime":1233.68,"body":"them to run."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1235.12,"endTime":1237.82,"body":"Oh, wow, that's"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1235.12,"endTime":1237.82,"body":"bizarre that you pick those two"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1237.82,"endTime":1242.52,"body":"because they're exactly the two."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1237.82,"endTime":1242.52,"body":"I would always say, I think that"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1242.58,"endTime":1247.86,"body":"the learning aspect is really"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1242.58,"endTime":1247.86,"body":"interesting and continuous. I"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1247.86,"endTime":1253.86,"body":"personally, but I make sure my"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1247.86,"endTime":1253.86,"body":"lunch hours are always blocked"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1253.86,"endTime":1256.92,"body":"out. And yes, I do eat, but I"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1253.86,"endTime":1256.92,"body":"don't eat for the whole hour."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1256.92,"endTime":1261.74,"body":"I'm not I'm not having a five"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1256.92,"endTime":1261.74,"body":"course meal and wine, if only"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1261.74,"endTime":1266.54,"body":"I'm not in France or Europe."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1261.74,"endTime":1266.54,"body":"Unfortunately, I wish anyway,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1266.54,"endTime":1269.9,"body":"but I have my five course meal."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1266.54,"endTime":1269.9,"body":"No, I just have my sandwich or"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1269.9,"endTime":1273.92,"body":"whatever, and and then I spend"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1269.9,"endTime":1273.92,"body":"the other time learning. And I"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1273.92,"endTime":1277.64,"body":"have a backlog. I know it's very"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1273.92,"endTime":1277.64,"body":"geeky. Of things that have"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1277.64,"endTime":1281.14,"body":"tickled my fancy, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1277.64,"endTime":1281.14,"body":"I've seen but not had time for,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1281.14,"endTime":1285.28,"body":"like, oh, I there's this article"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1281.14,"endTime":1285.28,"body":"on, you know, flow systems, or"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1285.28,"endTime":1287.98,"body":"flow networks, or whatever I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1285.28,"endTime":1287.98,"body":"interested in that. Oh, I need"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1287.98,"endTime":1291.22,"body":"to really spend some more time"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1287.98,"endTime":1291.22,"body":"in Cynefin and Dave snowden's"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1291.22,"endTime":1295.0,"body":"work, or or whatever it is. And"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1291.22,"endTime":1295.0,"body":"I have this big list that I add"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1295.0,"endTime":1298.0,"body":"to continuously. It's an"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1295.0,"endTime":1298.0,"body":"Evernote. And then I just"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1298.0,"endTime":1300.78,"body":"literally, oh, I can see your"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1298.0,"endTime":1300.78,"body":"list on the wall. That's and"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1300.78,"endTime":1304.92,"body":"then so I pick every, every"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1300.78,"endTime":1304.92,"body":"lunch, I read something, or I"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1304.92,"endTime":1311.64,"body":"listen to something or or"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1304.92,"endTime":1311.64,"body":"whatever, to actually do that."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1311.64,"endTime":1314.52,"body":"So I really, really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1311.64,"endTime":1314.52,"body":"that. And then the network thing"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1314.52,"endTime":1318.3,"body":"is, I mean, that's the reason"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1314.52,"endTime":1318.3,"body":"why Ken scruble was my mentor,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1318.3,"endTime":1325.64,"body":"right? And for 20 years, we met"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1318.3,"endTime":1325.64,"body":"for, you know, not every month,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1325.64,"endTime":1328.88,"body":"but we met sometimes very"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1325.64,"endTime":1328.88,"body":"frequently and sometimes less"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1328.88,"endTime":1332.66,"body":"frequent. And he helped me, you"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1328.88,"endTime":1332.66,"body":"know, build an engineering"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1332.66,"endTime":1336.5,"body":"organization at task top. He"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1332.66,"endTime":1336.5,"body":"helped me, you know, Forrester"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1336.5,"endTime":1339.86,"body":"Research, when I was researching"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1336.5,"endTime":1339.86,"body":"this stuff, he was and then it"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1339.86,"endTime":1343.66,"body":"turns out that he wanted to hire"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1339.86,"endTime":1343.66,"body":"me. But so networks are"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1343.66,"endTime":1347.8,"body":"invaluable throughout so and as"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1343.66,"endTime":1347.8,"body":"a scrum master, in particularly"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1347.8,"endTime":1352.36,"body":"in your enablement role, I think"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1347.8,"endTime":1352.36,"body":"it's even more crucial. So great"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1352.36,"endTime":1358.54,"body":"advice. Great advice there, Jim,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1352.36,"endTime":1358.54,"body":"so thank you for spending the"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1358.54,"endTime":1362.1,"body":"time today. I really, really do"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1358.54,"endTime":1362.1,"body":"appreciate, I think our"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1362.1,"endTime":1367.74,"body":"listeners do as as well. If"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1362.1,"endTime":1367.74,"body":"there's any last words to share,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1367.74,"endTime":1369.48,"body":"any last words of our listeners,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1370.56,"endTime":1373.08,"body":"go out there and"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1370.56,"endTime":1373.08,"body":"just do it. Don't just get off"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1373.08,"endTime":1376.38,"body":"your high horse as a scrum"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1373.08,"endTime":1376.38,"body":"master and just, you know, be"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1376.38,"endTime":1379.86,"body":"open to learn and just have fun"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1376.38,"endTime":1379.86,"body":"doing it. That's the biggest"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1379.86,"endTime":1381.44,"body":"thing. Go have fun doing this."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1381.98,"endTime":1384.8,"body":"Oh, that is such"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1381.98,"endTime":1384.8,"body":"good. What you said about that"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1384.86,"endTime":1388.34,"body":"bad experience with Scrum."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1384.86,"endTime":1388.34,"body":"There's so many that that team"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1388.34,"endTime":1392.66,"body":"had, and then you had to sort of"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1388.34,"endTime":1392.66,"body":"slowly bring them back. The bad"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1392.66,"endTime":1398.66,"body":"experiences are often created by"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1392.66,"endTime":1398.66,"body":"arrogance and hubris, right? We"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1398.66,"endTime":1404.2,"body":"think we know it all because,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1398.66,"endTime":1404.2,"body":"and the reality is, really"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1404.2,"endTime":1408.94,"body":"don't, and nobody does that."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1404.2,"endTime":1408.94,"body":"That is the reality. There's,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1409.18,"endTime":1411.88,"body":"you know, there's no should sing"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1409.18,"endTime":1411.88,"body":"as a truth, but its pursuit is"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1411.94,"endTime":1416.56,"body":"honorable, you know. And I think"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1411.94,"endTime":1416.56,"body":"that that is, oh, my God,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1416.56,"endTime":1419.68,"body":"that's, that's perhaps the third"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1416.56,"endTime":1419.68,"body":"bit of advice, don't, don't,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1419.74,"endTime":1421.32,"body":"don't be arrogant, I guess"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1422.46,"endTime":1424.32,"body":"Absolutely. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1422.46,"endTime":1424.32,"body":"get off your high horse and"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1424.32,"endTime":1428.04,"body":"realize, no matter how much you"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1424.32,"endTime":1428.04,"body":"think you know, you don't know"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1428.04,"endTime":1431.28,"body":"it all. And you need to be"},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1428.04,"endTime":1431.28,"body":"willing to take that step back."},{"speaker":"jim sparks","startTime":1432.0,"endTime":1433.08,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1433.8,"endTime":1435.9,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1433.8,"endTime":1435.9,"body":"really, really good advice."},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1436.26,"endTime":1439.68,"body":"Well, thanks, thanks, Jim. No, I"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1436.26,"endTime":1439.68,"body":"appreciate you. This has been"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1439.68,"endTime":1444.92,"body":"fun. This certainly has so"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1439.68,"endTime":1444.92,"body":"today, I was very lucky to be"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1444.92,"endTime":1449.36,"body":"speaking with Jim sparks from"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1444.92,"endTime":1449.36,"body":"Dayton, Ohio, a scrum master for"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1449.48,"endTime":1453.02,"body":"some seven and a half years,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1449.48,"endTime":1453.02,"body":"worked all over the place,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1453.32,"endTime":1458.36,"body":"helping teams become more and"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1453.32,"endTime":1458.36,"body":"more effective. And thank you"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1458.36,"endTime":1462.52,"body":"for listening to today's"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1458.36,"endTime":1462.52,"body":"podcast, scrum.org, community"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1462.52,"endTime":1466.36,"body":"podcast. If you liked what you"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1462.52,"endTime":1466.36,"body":"heard, subscribe, share of your"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1466.36,"endTime":1469.36,"body":"friends. And of course, come"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1466.36,"endTime":1469.36,"body":"back and listen to more. Today,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1469.36,"endTime":1473.56,"body":"we were hearing all about Scrum,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1469.36,"endTime":1473.56,"body":"the accountability of Scrum"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1473.56,"endTime":1478.42,"body":"Master. But I'm lucky enough to"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1473.56,"endTime":1478.42,"body":"have a variety of guests talking"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1478.42,"endTime":1480.78,"body":"about everything in the area of"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1478.42,"endTime":1480.78,"body":"professional Scrum Product"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1480.78,"endTime":1484.26,"body":"thinking and of course, agile,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1480.78,"endTime":1484.26,"body":"thanks, everybody. Scrummar,"},{"speaker":"Dave West","startTime":1484.26,"endTime":1484.38,"body":"you."}]}