{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.96,"body":"Announcer,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.96,"body":"welcome to the scrum.org"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":4.32,"endTime":8.52,"body":"community podcast, a podcast"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":4.32,"endTime":8.52,"body":"from the home of Scrum. In this"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":8.52,"endTime":11.64,"body":"podcast, we feature professional"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":8.52,"endTime":11.64,"body":"scrum trainers and other scrum"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":11.64,"endTime":15.06,"body":"practitioners sharing their"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":11.64,"endTime":15.06,"body":"stories and experiences to help"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":15.06,"endTime":18.66,"body":"learn from the experience of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":15.06,"endTime":18.66,"body":"others. We hope you enjoy this"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":18.66,"endTime":19.2,"body":"episode."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":20.34,"endTime":23.6,"body":"Hello and welcome"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":20.34,"endTime":23.6,"body":"to the scrum.org community"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":23.6,"endTime":29.12,"body":"Podcast. I'm Patricia Kong, your"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":23.6,"endTime":29.12,"body":"guest host for today, I've been"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":29.12,"endTime":33.62,"body":"invited to participate in a"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":29.12,"endTime":33.62,"body":"really cool conversation. I I'm"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":33.68,"endTime":38.3,"body":"really excited about this topic."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":33.68,"endTime":38.3,"body":"So personally, as an Asian"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":38.3,"endTime":42.52,"body":"American and and somebody who's"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":38.3,"endTime":42.52,"body":"worked with Asians in Western"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":42.52,"endTime":48.88,"body":"countries and in in Asia, I know"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":42.52,"endTime":48.88,"body":"firsthand how silence can mean"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":48.88,"endTime":53.5,"body":"different things, depending on"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":48.88,"endTime":53.5,"body":"on where you come from. So in"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":53.5,"endTime":55.9,"body":"Chinese culture, foreign"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":53.5,"endTime":55.9,"body":"existence, and I think in many"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":55.9,"endTime":59.44,"body":"Asian cultures, it's a sign of"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":55.9,"endTime":59.44,"body":"respect, harmony, deference,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":59.44,"endTime":62.76,"body":"deep thought, maybe even"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":59.44,"endTime":62.76,"body":"strategic growing up, it was"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":62.76,"endTime":66.48,"body":"about obedience. So there's a"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":62.76,"endTime":66.48,"body":"lot of different aspects of"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":66.48,"endTime":70.14,"body":"that, just to kind of frame how"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":66.48,"endTime":70.14,"body":"I think about this. But still"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":70.14,"endTime":75.9,"body":"for me and a lot of probably our"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":70.14,"endTime":75.9,"body":"listeners, when we work together"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":75.9,"endTime":81.56,"body":"in teams, especially in an agile"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":75.9,"endTime":81.56,"body":"way, where experiences like"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":81.56,"endTime":85.52,"body":"conflict are really necessary"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":81.56,"endTime":85.52,"body":"for us to excel, right when"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":85.52,"endTime":88.76,"body":"we're working in complex"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":85.52,"endTime":88.76,"body":"situations, figuring out what"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":88.82,"endTime":93.86,"body":"what silence means is tricky."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":88.82,"endTime":93.86,"body":"It's not easy. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":93.86,"endTime":97.04,"body":"that's a topic really worth"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":93.86,"endTime":97.04,"body":"exploring. So that's why today"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":97.04,"endTime":100.36,"body":"I'm really excited to talk with"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":97.04,"endTime":100.36,"body":"Elaine Lynn herring, who's a new"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":100.36,"endTime":104.32,"body":"friend. We just established that"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":100.36,"endTime":104.32,"body":"she's the author of a book"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":104.32,"endTime":108.88,"body":"called unlearning silence, and"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":104.32,"endTime":108.88,"body":"Ravi Verma, who is an old"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":108.88,"endTime":113.2,"body":"friend. He's also a professional"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":108.88,"endTime":113.2,"body":"scrum trainer and founder of org"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":113.2,"endTime":116.62,"body":"whispers. And we're going to"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":113.2,"endTime":116.62,"body":"talk about how cultural norms"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":116.62,"endTime":122.7,"body":"shape our voices at work, where"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":116.62,"endTime":122.7,"body":"individuals can feel like"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":122.7,"endTime":126.66,"body":"they're not heard, how can they"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":122.7,"endTime":126.66,"body":"explore that? But also from the"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":126.66,"endTime":130.92,"body":"perspective I think about for"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":126.66,"endTime":130.92,"body":"leaders, people who are leading,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":131.16,"endTime":137.04,"body":"how can they recognize that and"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":131.16,"endTime":137.04,"body":"what they can do to make sure"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":137.04,"endTime":139.86,"body":"every voice matters. I think I"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":137.04,"endTime":139.86,"body":"stole that from you. Elaine, you"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":139.86,"endTime":145.04,"body":"care about making sure every"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":139.86,"endTime":145.04,"body":"voice matters. Anyways, hello."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":145.1,"endTime":146.24,"body":"Thank you for coming."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":146.54,"endTime":147.98,"body":"Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":146.54,"endTime":147.98,"body":"having us."},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":148.7,"endTime":149.06,"body":"Thank you"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":150.38,"endTime":154.04,"body":"so Elaine's"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":150.38,"endTime":154.04,"body":"background, I want to start here"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":154.04,"endTime":158.0,"body":"first, because you're not"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":154.04,"endTime":158.0,"body":"necessarily a scrum agile"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":158.0,"endTime":162.64,"body":"person. Your background is"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":158.0,"endTime":162.64,"body":"actually in mediation and in"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":162.64,"endTime":170.26,"body":"law. So how did you get from"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":162.64,"endTime":170.26,"body":"that to being on a podcast about"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":170.26,"endTime":174.1,"body":"Scrum and Agile, talking with"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":170.26,"endTime":174.1,"body":"two professional troublemakers,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":175.06,"endTime":178.78,"body":"and where we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":175.06,"endTime":178.78,"body":"your book unlearning silence?"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":179.019,"endTime":182.639,"body":"Yeah, because"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":179.019,"endTime":182.639,"body":"you're in law school, and you"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":182.639,"endTime":188.159,"body":"realize that the actual practice"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":182.639,"endTime":188.159,"body":"of law is maybe deadening to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":188.159,"endTime":194.159,"body":"your soul. Oh, and even though"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":188.159,"endTime":194.159,"body":"your Asian mother is really"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":194.159,"endTime":197.759,"body":"proud that you're at Harvard Law"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":194.159,"endTime":197.759,"body":"School, and you also realize"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":197.759,"endTime":202.579,"body":"that the thing people don't"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":197.759,"endTime":202.579,"body":"teach you in law school, or"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":202.579,"endTime":206.179,"body":"maybe in engineering classes or"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":202.579,"endTime":206.179,"body":"whatever it is, is"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":206.599,"endTime":211.759,"body":"communication. How do we"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":206.599,"endTime":211.759,"body":"actually work together? How do"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":211.759,"endTime":215.059,"body":"we transmit thoughts to one"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":211.759,"endTime":215.059,"body":"another and actually receive"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":215.059,"endTime":218.119,"body":"them? And as you mentioned, when"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":215.059,"endTime":218.119,"body":"there's conflict, what do we do"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":218.119,"endTime":223.299,"body":"about it? Now, the legal system"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":218.119,"endTime":223.299,"body":"is one escalation of that. But"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":223.479,"endTime":226.959,"body":"the question I started to answer"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":223.479,"endTime":226.959,"body":"was, other than sue each other"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":226.959,"endTime":230.259,"body":"and blow each other up, what can"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":226.959,"endTime":230.259,"body":"we do? Because it turns out"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":230.259,"endTime":233.559,"body":"there's a whole lot, and that"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":230.259,"endTime":233.559,"body":"meant that I fell into this"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":233.559,"endTime":237.459,"body":"world, apparently, called"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":233.559,"endTime":237.459,"body":"Leadership Development of how do"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":237.459,"endTime":242.939,"body":"we help professionals leaders"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":237.459,"endTime":242.939,"body":"develop the skills necessary to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":242.939,"endTime":247.979,"body":"actually work together, because"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":242.939,"endTime":247.979,"body":"I can't cure cancer, I can't"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":248.039,"endTime":252.059,"body":"lead a scrum team, I can't"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":248.039,"endTime":252.059,"body":"program anything for the life of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":252.059,"endTime":257.639,"body":"me, but I do know quite a bit"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":252.059,"endTime":257.639,"body":"about the interpersonal dynamics"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":257.639,"endTime":262.279,"body":"that get in the way of any of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":257.639,"endTime":262.279,"body":"that good work. So I'm delighted"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":262.519,"endTime":264.319,"body":"to be here with you"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":262.519,"endTime":264.319,"body":"troublemakers."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":265.58,"endTime":268.94,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":265.58,"endTime":268.94,"body":"Speaking of troublemaker so"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":269.0,"endTime":273.86,"body":"Ravi, I think what Elaine like"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":269.0,"endTime":273.86,"body":"just set it up beautifully,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":273.86,"endTime":277.4,"body":"right? Because we all think in"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":273.86,"endTime":277.4,"body":"that way, you can lead Scrum"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":277.4,"endTime":280.54,"body":"teams, you can program and how"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":277.4,"endTime":280.54,"body":"do we communicate? And I"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":280.54,"endTime":283.72,"body":"remember just talking to Ken,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":280.54,"endTime":283.72,"body":"obviously, and it's like, well,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":283.72,"endTime":287.08,"body":"we know how we'll do it. We'll"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":283.72,"endTime":287.08,"body":"set up a process that will tell"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":287.08,"endTime":290.62,"body":"us what we should do at every"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":287.08,"endTime":290.62,"body":"step. And there's even a step"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":290.62,"endTime":293.92,"body":"where we have to reflect and"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":290.62,"endTime":293.92,"body":"talk about what we can do to"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":293.92,"endTime":297.52,"body":"improve and get better. But"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":293.92,"endTime":297.52,"body":"thank you actually, Robbie, for"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":297.94,"endTime":301.44,"body":"for bringing Elaine on the"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":297.94,"endTime":301.44,"body":"podcast. Um. How did you guys"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":301.44,"endTime":304.92,"body":"get connected? You always bring"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":301.44,"endTime":304.92,"body":"us some fun things."},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":306.36,"endTime":309.96,"body":"So I was driving and"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":306.36,"endTime":309.96,"body":"I was listening to NPR, and one"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":309.96,"endTime":314.58,"body":"of my favorite programs is think"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":309.96,"endTime":314.58,"body":"by Chris Boyd. I think that's"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":314.58,"endTime":318.6,"body":"where Elaine was, and it's just"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":314.58,"endTime":318.6,"body":"my lucky day. I was listening to"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":318.66,"endTime":323.78,"body":"Elaine, and it really moved me,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":318.66,"endTime":323.78,"body":"and her voice spoke to me, and"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":323.78,"endTime":327.68,"body":"then later on, just"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":323.78,"endTime":327.68,"body":"coincidentally, we happened to"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":327.68,"endTime":333.26,"body":"join the same networking group,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":327.68,"endTime":333.26,"body":"and then I made a request if she"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":333.26,"endTime":336.26,"body":"would be willing to share her"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":333.26,"endTime":336.26,"body":"wisdom with our community,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":336.26,"endTime":339.32,"body":"because I found so many"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":336.26,"endTime":339.32,"body":"parallels, and we had a very"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":339.32,"endTime":342.88,"body":"unfortunate first experience"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":339.32,"endTime":342.88,"body":"where we got zoom bombed. So I"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":342.88,"endTime":345.34,"body":"asked Elaine to speak at my"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":342.88,"endTime":345.34,"body":"meetup. It was one of the most"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":345.34,"endTime":348.52,"body":"traumatic experiences of my"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":345.34,"endTime":348.52,"body":"life. So hopefully that won't"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":348.52,"endTime":351.88,"body":"happen here. But anyway, that's"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":348.52,"endTime":351.88,"body":"how we went from a car drive to"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":351.88,"endTime":352.84,"body":"think Chris"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":352.84,"endTime":354.94,"body":"Boyd. So let's,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":352.84,"endTime":354.94,"body":"let's get into the book. Thank"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":354.94,"endTime":359.02,"body":"you again for sending me a copy."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":354.94,"endTime":359.02,"body":"I really, I really dove into it"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":359.02,"endTime":363.48,"body":"right away. And that being said,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":359.02,"endTime":363.48,"body":"you start off this introduction."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":363.48,"endTime":365.52,"body":"You're really talking about all"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":363.48,"endTime":365.52,"body":"these things that you've"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":365.52,"endTime":369.78,"body":"experienced. She told us about"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":365.52,"endTime":369.78,"body":"your your your background in"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":369.78,"endTime":375.96,"body":"mediation and law. What? What"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":369.78,"endTime":375.96,"body":"got you into deciding to write"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":375.96,"endTime":377.4,"body":"it down into words,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":379.08,"endTime":381.5,"body":"because it"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":379.08,"endTime":381.5,"body":"was a way of getting an idea out"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":381.5,"endTime":382.16,"body":"in the world."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":382.4,"endTime":385.16,"body":"Yeah, because"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":382.4,"endTime":385.16,"body":"it's not easy. Like as a fellow"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":386.9,"endTime":389.6,"body":"author, I"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":386.9,"endTime":389.6,"body":"question my judgment to tell"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":389.599,"endTime":392.599,"body":"you to stop being"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":389.599,"endTime":392.599,"body":"quiet, open your mouth, that you"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":392.599,"endTime":395.119,"body":"decided to do that well."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":395.12,"endTime":397.76,"body":"And what's"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":395.12,"endTime":397.76,"body":"interesting about it is right in"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":397.76,"endTime":400.9,"body":"the scrum values, there is"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":397.76,"endTime":400.9,"body":"courage, there is openness,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":400.9,"endTime":404.2,"body":"there's commitment, all these"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":400.9,"endTime":404.2,"body":"ideals that when you talk about"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":404.2,"endTime":406.54,"body":"them, people like, yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":404.2,"endTime":406.54,"body":"that makes sense. How do you"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":406.54,"endTime":411.64,"body":"operationalize? Operationalizing"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":406.54,"endTime":411.64,"body":"that is actually incredibly"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":411.64,"endTime":416.32,"body":"difficult, given human nature"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":411.64,"endTime":416.32,"body":"and human behavior, and so as is"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":416.32,"endTime":418.36,"body":"writing this book, there's"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":416.32,"endTime":418.36,"body":"actually, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":418.36,"endTime":421.86,"body":"nuance to it, because unlearning"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":418.36,"endTime":421.86,"body":"silence doesn't mean just speak"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":421.86,"endTime":424.98,"body":"up, even though we say"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":421.86,"endTime":424.98,"body":"willingness to speak up about"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":424.98,"endTime":430.14,"body":"issues, right? It's not that"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":424.98,"endTime":430.14,"body":"easy what gets and our best shot"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":430.14,"endTime":434.46,"body":"at actually being able to bring"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":430.14,"endTime":434.46,"body":"these values to life is"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":434.46,"endTime":437.76,"body":"understanding what gets in the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":434.46,"endTime":437.76,"body":"way. Because for too long, it's"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":437.76,"endTime":440.96,"body":"been misdiagnosed as if you"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":437.76,"endTime":440.96,"body":"don't have courage or you're not"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":440.96,"endTime":444.14,"body":"open, then you need to get some"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":440.96,"endTime":444.14,"body":"more courage. You know, get it"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":444.14,"endTime":449.12,"body":"on aisle 12 at the grocery"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":444.14,"endTime":449.12,"body":"store, maybe on sale, and then"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":449.12,"endTime":453.98,"body":"you'll be good to go and the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":449.12,"endTime":453.98,"body":"world will work. Versus, maybe"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":453.98,"endTime":457.22,"body":"it's a misdiagnosis that it's"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":453.98,"endTime":457.22,"body":"not actually that you lack"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":457.22,"endTime":460.84,"body":"courage, but there's this thing"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":457.22,"endTime":460.84,"body":"called silence that many of us"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":460.84,"endTime":464.8,"body":"have learned, it means different"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":460.84,"endTime":464.8,"body":"things to us. It undermines our"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":464.8,"endTime":468.64,"body":"ability to trust one another, to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":464.8,"endTime":468.64,"body":"work with another, and so what"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":468.64,"endTime":471.22,"body":"we really need to do is"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":468.64,"endTime":471.22,"body":"understand the role silence is"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":471.22,"endTime":476.2,"body":"playing on our teams and choose"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":471.22,"endTime":476.2,"body":"an intentional relationship with"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":476.2,"endTime":479.38,"body":"it, so we're not unintentionally"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":476.2,"endTime":479.38,"body":"silencing each other when really"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":479.38,"endTime":482.82,"body":"I'm like, no Patricia, I care"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":479.38,"endTime":482.82,"body":"what you think. Why won't you"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":482.82,"endTime":486.36,"body":"tell me we're in a retro This is"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":482.82,"endTime":486.36,"body":"the purpose of this meeting."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":486.48,"endTime":487.62,"body":"Just speak up."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":489.18,"endTime":495.96,"body":"I I love that,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":489.18,"endTime":495.96,"body":"and I think it's, it's so as"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":495.96,"endTime":498.36,"body":"professionals, we're always"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":495.96,"endTime":498.36,"body":"like, Oh, we're gonna we'll just"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":498.36,"endTime":500.72,"body":"learn it. We'll just learn it."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":498.36,"endTime":500.72,"body":"We'll figure it out along the"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":500.72,"endTime":504.26,"body":"way, even as individuals, we'll,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":500.72,"endTime":504.26,"body":"we'll figure it out. And I think"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":504.26,"endTime":506.96,"body":"you're, you're calling out just"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":504.26,"endTime":506.96,"body":"some more tips. And I love this,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":506.96,"endTime":510.02,"body":"because the book kind of sets up"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":506.96,"endTime":510.02,"body":"the scene about what you just"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":510.02,"endTime":513.68,"body":"said. And then you give in the"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":510.02,"endTime":513.68,"body":"second half, you give, you give"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":513.68,"endTime":516.98,"body":"some some frameworks and some"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":513.68,"endTime":516.98,"body":"ways for people to start taking"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":516.98,"endTime":520.48,"body":"steps. But I have to ask this"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":516.98,"endTime":520.48,"body":"first, because your your silence"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":520.54,"endTime":524.02,"body":"is so big, so and I want to know"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":520.54,"endTime":524.02,"body":"this from both of you, and this"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":524.02,"endTime":527.32,"body":"is the most abstract question I"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":524.02,"endTime":527.32,"body":"think I've ever asked, but how?"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":527.44,"endTime":531.94,"body":"How do you define silence? And"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":527.44,"endTime":531.94,"body":"I'm going to ask Robbie first,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":531.94,"endTime":535.54,"body":"because Elaine wrote the book. I"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":531.94,"endTime":535.54,"body":"want to know what you think."},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":536.68,"endTime":539.62,"body":"I think I define"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":536.68,"endTime":539.62,"body":"silence as some part of my body"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":539.68,"endTime":545.22,"body":"tightening up and telling me"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":539.68,"endTime":545.22,"body":"something is getting suppressed,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":547.38,"endTime":553.92,"body":"making their conscious or"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":547.38,"endTime":553.92,"body":"unconscious decision that what I"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":553.92,"endTime":558.3,"body":"have to offer cannot be offered."},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":553.92,"endTime":558.3,"body":"That's how I would interpret"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":558.9,"endTime":559.5,"body":"silence."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":561.78,"endTime":564.74,"body":"Elaine Ravi"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":561.78,"endTime":564.74,"body":"has done my job for me, so I"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":564.74,"endTime":569.54,"body":"feel like he's done the Mic"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":564.74,"endTime":569.54,"body":"drop. I would put a finer point"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":569.54,"endTime":575.42,"body":"to say silence is the absence of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":569.54,"endTime":575.42,"body":"voice, and it happens so subtly"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":575.72,"endTime":579.98,"body":"that you don't even realize it's"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":575.72,"endTime":579.98,"body":"happening. So Ravi has this gut"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":579.98,"endTime":583.24,"body":"feeling in his stomach. I want"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":579.98,"endTime":583.24,"body":"to offer it, but I don't feel"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":583.24,"endTime":587.56,"body":"like I can. And then we tell"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":583.24,"endTime":587.56,"body":"ourselves, it's okay, not a big"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":587.56,"endTime":592.36,"body":"deal. We brush it off, right?"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":587.56,"endTime":592.36,"body":"I'm used to sucking it up or"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":592.36,"endTime":597.1,"body":"dealing with it or pushing"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":592.36,"endTime":597.1,"body":"through and over time what our"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":597.1,"endTime":600.3,"body":"bodies do to deal with the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":597.1,"endTime":600.3,"body":"cognitive and physical. We call"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":600.3,"endTime":603.18,"body":"dissonance is we tell ourselves"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":600.3,"endTime":603.18,"body":"it's okay, it doesn't matter"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":603.18,"endTime":606.84,"body":"that much. And in doing so,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":603.18,"endTime":606.84,"body":"we're discounting our thoughts,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":606.84,"endTime":612.36,"body":"our insights, our expertise,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":606.84,"endTime":612.36,"body":"discounting our own voice. And"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":612.36,"endTime":615.06,"body":"it's not just problematic for"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":612.36,"endTime":615.06,"body":"me, it's problematic for the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":615.06,"endTime":618.0,"body":"people on my team. It's"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":615.06,"endTime":618.0,"body":"problematic for my scrum master"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":618.12,"endTime":621.32,"body":"because they don't have accurate"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":618.12,"endTime":621.32,"body":"data on which to make sound"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":621.32,"endTime":624.74,"body":"decisions, because I haven't"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":621.32,"endTime":624.74,"body":"told them the thing that I've"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":624.74,"endTime":629.0,"body":"noticed that might be off or"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":624.74,"endTime":629.0,"body":"that I have questions about"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":629.0,"endTime":632.0,"body":"because it felt too risky, or"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":629.0,"endTime":632.0,"body":"that's not what we do here,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":632.0,"endTime":635.78,"body":"right? Patricia, you started us"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":632.0,"endTime":635.78,"body":"off with culture. Culture isn't"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":635.78,"endTime":638.48,"body":"just where you came from, it's"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":635.78,"endTime":638.48,"body":"what culture are we building on"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":638.48,"endTime":641.44,"body":"this team? Are we building a"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":638.48,"endTime":641.44,"body":"culture on this team where we"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":641.44,"endTime":644.8,"body":"talk about things, where we ask"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":641.44,"endTime":644.8,"body":"questions, even if it might slow"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":644.8,"endTime":648.16,"body":"us down in the short term, or"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":644.8,"endTime":648.16,"body":"are we building a culture of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":648.16,"endTime":651.82,"body":"silence where I'm just going to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":648.16,"endTime":651.82,"body":"do as I'm told? And you know"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":651.82,"endTime":655.6,"body":"what? There's a process. We'll"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":651.82,"endTime":655.6,"body":"button it up, we'll move it on."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":655.66,"endTime":658.84,"body":"I can point the finger at"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":655.66,"endTime":658.84,"body":"someone else, and at least I'll"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":658.84,"endTime":659.2,"body":"get paid."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":660.76,"endTime":663.12,"body":"I love this"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":660.76,"endTime":663.12,"body":"notion of developing awareness"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":663.12,"endTime":665.58,"body":"around that, because when I was"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":663.12,"endTime":665.58,"body":"thinking about silence, I don't"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":665.58,"endTime":668.22,"body":"know if it's just some really"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":665.58,"endTime":668.22,"body":"deep scars that I have or and"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":668.22,"endTime":672.3,"body":"it's not just, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":668.22,"endTime":672.3,"body":"upbringing, but also in in in"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":672.3,"endTime":676.32,"body":"the teams that I've worked at,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":672.3,"endTime":676.32,"body":"but I think, I think about"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":676.32,"endTime":681.92,"body":"silence as the opposite of"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":676.32,"endTime":681.92,"body":"noise, and so you can really"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":681.92,"endTime":684.86,"body":"have this culture of noise where"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":681.92,"endTime":684.86,"body":"it's, like, and I think about it"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":684.86,"endTime":688.4,"body":"as a spectrum, like, there's"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":684.86,"endTime":688.4,"body":"noise from this person just"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":688.4,"endTime":691.04,"body":"can't help being chatty, and"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":688.4,"endTime":691.04,"body":"they talk and, like, there's"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":691.04,"endTime":695.84,"body":"not, you know, there's noises"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":691.04,"endTime":695.84,"body":"and voice to the other end of"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":695.84,"endTime":700.1,"body":"like, Ah, I just wish I said"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":695.84,"endTime":700.1,"body":"something, you know. And that"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":700.1,"endTime":702.34,"body":"can have many different"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":700.1,"endTime":702.34,"body":"dimensions, but there's,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":702.7,"endTime":706.0,"body":"there's, there's, there's"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":702.7,"endTime":706.0,"body":"something, and you go into this"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":706.36,"endTime":708.58,"body":"in the book, but it's like"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":706.36,"endTime":708.58,"body":"you're not talking just to talk."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":708.58,"endTime":712.3,"body":"You're not voicing, you're not"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":708.58,"endTime":712.3,"body":"you're not voicing your opinion"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":712.3,"endTime":715.24,"body":"just to, just to get your voice"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":712.3,"endTime":715.24,"body":"heard, which, honestly, some"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":715.24,"endTime":718.9,"body":"cultures, and I want to say"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":715.24,"endTime":718.9,"body":"professional environments, they"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":718.9,"endTime":721.62,"body":"kind of say, Oh, who's talking"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":718.9,"endTime":721.62,"body":"about who's participating,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":721.68,"endTime":725.16,"body":"right? And they do that to"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":721.68,"endTime":725.16,"body":"impress people. So I want to"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":725.16,"endTime":731.16,"body":"talk about a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":725.16,"endTime":731.16,"body":"the risk of misinterpretation,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":731.16,"endTime":734.58,"body":"because we were just diving in"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":731.16,"endTime":734.58,"body":"there. So how do you think about"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":734.58,"endTime":736.98,"body":"before we go"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":734.58,"endTime":736.98,"body":"there? Okay, let me clarify,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":736.98,"endTime":740.1,"body":"because I love this visual that"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":736.98,"endTime":740.1,"body":"you've given us of the opposite"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":740.16,"endTime":744.92,"body":"of voice is not noise. The"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":740.16,"endTime":744.92,"body":"opposite of silence isn't noise."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":745.16,"endTime":749.6,"body":"The opposite of silence is"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":745.16,"endTime":749.6,"body":"voice, and it's a spectrum. And"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":749.6,"endTime":752.6,"body":"I'd argue that voice isn't just"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":749.6,"endTime":752.6,"body":"the words we say or don't say."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":752.6,"endTime":756.38,"body":"Voice is how we move through the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":752.6,"endTime":756.38,"body":"world. So voice is also I'm on"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":756.38,"endTime":761.26,"body":"that team. Someone sent me,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":756.38,"endTime":761.26,"body":"someone pinged me again, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":761.26,"endTime":765.04,"body":"really triggered because I just"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":761.26,"endTime":765.04,"body":"think they're so out of their"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":765.04,"endTime":769.0,"body":"mind and don't understand any of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":765.04,"endTime":769.0,"body":"the context. Do I fire back a"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":769.0,"endTime":772.96,"body":"message right then, or do I"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":769.0,"endTime":772.96,"body":"pause and choose a response?"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":773.56,"endTime":776.68,"body":"Right? But that act of choice in"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":773.56,"endTime":776.68,"body":"the moment of how I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":776.68,"endTime":779.92,"body":"react or respond is also an"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":776.68,"endTime":779.92,"body":"expression of voice. If voice is"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":779.92,"endTime":782.7,"body":"how we move through the world"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":779.92,"endTime":782.7,"body":"that's part of creating a"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":782.7,"endTime":786.36,"body":"culture on a team, is what are"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":782.7,"endTime":786.36,"body":"the collective behaviors of how"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":786.36,"endTime":790.68,"body":"we work together. And so I love"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":786.36,"endTime":790.68,"body":"that distinction between noise"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":790.74,"endTime":793.38,"body":"and voice, because unlearning"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":790.74,"endTime":793.38,"body":"silence doesn't mean saying"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":793.38,"endTime":796.26,"body":"everything all the time to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":793.38,"endTime":796.26,"body":"everyone. The world is far too"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":796.26,"endTime":800.54,"body":"noisy and complex for that, but"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":796.26,"endTime":800.54,"body":"it is choosing with"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":800.54,"endTime":803.54,"body":"intentionality, how you're going"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":800.54,"endTime":803.54,"body":"to show up, how you're going to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":803.54,"endTime":807.26,"body":"work, how you're going to lead."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":803.54,"endTime":807.26,"body":"And the trap is that we forget"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":807.26,"endTime":810.62,"body":"that we have a choice because"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":807.26,"endTime":810.62,"body":"we're so used to the rhythms of,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":810.62,"endTime":813.8,"body":"yep, this is just how a scrum"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":810.62,"endTime":813.8,"body":"team works. This is just what"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":813.8,"endTime":817.22,"body":"work is. I just have to grin and"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":813.8,"endTime":817.22,"body":"bear it, versus I might have"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":817.28,"endTime":822.4,"body":"agency to impact and change or"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":817.28,"endTime":822.4,"body":"experiment with the way that I"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":822.4,"endTime":825.34,"body":"train, with the way that I lead,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":822.4,"endTime":825.34,"body":"with the way that I work with"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":825.4,"endTime":828.34,"body":"with when I send my messages, or"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":825.4,"endTime":828.34,"body":"how I send my messages."},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":829.72,"endTime":831.7,"body":"I said, You know"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":829.72,"endTime":831.7,"body":"what? As I was listening Lynn,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":831.88,"endTime":837.4,"body":"what? What I got was voices"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":831.88,"endTime":837.4,"body":"choice and me making choice for"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":837.4,"endTime":840.04,"body":"myself, as opposed to the"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":837.4,"endTime":840.04,"body":"circumstance or the system"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":840.04,"endTime":841.02,"body":"making the choice for me?"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":841.439,"endTime":843.719,"body":"Yeah, now I'm"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":841.439,"endTime":843.719,"body":"going to put Ravi in charge of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":843.719,"endTime":847.319,"body":"my marketing. It's a choice,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":849.0,"endTime":853.14,"body":"and I think it's,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":849.0,"endTime":853.14,"body":"it's, it's also element that"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":853.26,"endTime":858.06,"body":"it's about, about choice,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":853.26,"endTime":858.06,"body":"because it's not always just"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":858.06,"endTime":861.86,"body":"about the vocal, the vocalness"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":858.06,"endTime":861.86,"body":"of it, it's, it's also saying,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":861.86,"endTime":865.58,"body":"you have an option to say, I"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":861.86,"endTime":865.58,"body":"changed my mind, yeah. And so,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":865.64,"endTime":869.42,"body":"so the three of us, we"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":865.64,"endTime":869.42,"body":"facilitate the different"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":869.42,"endTime":872.66,"body":"degrees, different different"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":869.42,"endTime":872.66,"body":"environments, but we've probably"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":872.72,"endTime":875.12,"body":"always seen the situation of"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":872.72,"endTime":875.12,"body":"we're trying to get to that"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":875.12,"endTime":878.48,"body":"outcome, whatever that is, and"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":875.12,"endTime":878.48,"body":"then all of a sudden, next time"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":879.14,"endTime":883.3,"body":"somebody changes their mind, and"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":879.14,"endTime":883.3,"body":"if you can use your voice"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":883.3,"endTime":888.28,"body":"effectively, that's great. As a"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":883.3,"endTime":888.28,"body":"facilitator, you can also look"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":888.28,"endTime":892.0,"body":"to see what did I do to make"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":888.28,"endTime":892.0,"body":"sure that everybody participated"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":892.06,"endTime":897.16,"body":"in a meaningful way? That's also"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":892.06,"endTime":897.16,"body":"an excellent thing to think"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":897.16,"endTime":901.38,"body":"about. I'm really trying hard"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":897.16,"endTime":901.38,"body":"to. Not love this, but I was"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":901.38,"endTime":905.22,"body":"thinking about, but Ravi kind of"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":901.38,"endTime":905.22,"body":"opened it. So I think that"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":905.22,"endTime":908.22,"body":"people can use their voice. It'd"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":905.22,"endTime":908.22,"body":"be interesting to see what you"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":908.22,"endTime":912.0,"body":"guys think about this in a"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":908.22,"endTime":912.0,"body":"different way. And I want to"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":912.0,"endTime":917.64,"body":"see, have you guys seen an"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":912.0,"endTime":917.64,"body":"expression of that where a group"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":917.64,"endTime":920.7,"body":"of people or person has kind of"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":917.64,"endTime":920.7,"body":"worked around the system to"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":920.7,"endTime":923.3,"body":"express themselves, not"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":920.7,"endTime":923.3,"body":"undermining, not undercutting,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":923.3,"endTime":927.86,"body":"but to just to just express"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":923.3,"endTime":927.86,"body":"themselves. Have you seen any of"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":927.86,"endTime":928.22,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":933.38,"endTime":937.34,"body":"I mean, what I have"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":933.38,"endTime":937.34,"body":"seen is, and I have done is, if"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":937.34,"endTime":944.08,"body":"I'm in a system and I feel my"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":937.34,"endTime":944.08,"body":"voice is not being heard through"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":944.08,"endTime":948.28,"body":"the established norms and"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":944.08,"endTime":948.28,"body":"processes, and I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":948.28,"endTime":954.76,"body":"be subversive. Sometimes there"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":948.28,"endTime":954.76,"body":"is a microcosm of that system"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":955.12,"endTime":959.8,"body":"where I go and choose to be part"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":955.12,"endTime":959.8,"body":"of a subsystem where my voice is"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":959.8,"endTime":964.02,"body":"honored, or I just go leave the"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":959.8,"endTime":964.02,"body":"system, because that's a very"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":964.02,"endTime":967.44,"body":"heavy price I've paid that it it"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":964.02,"endTime":967.44,"body":"internalizes that suffering will"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":967.44,"endTime":970.8,"body":"be internalized. Actually, it's"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":967.44,"endTime":970.8,"body":"like laws of conservation of"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":970.8,"endTime":973.32,"body":"energy. Suffering will neither"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":970.8,"endTime":973.32,"body":"be created nor destroyed. It"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":973.32,"endTime":976.56,"body":"will be transferred from one"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":973.32,"endTime":976.56,"body":"person to another. So if I"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":976.56,"endTime":981.2,"body":"choose to stay in a system where"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":976.56,"endTime":981.2,"body":"my voice choice are not enabled."},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":981.2,"endTime":983.66,"body":"I'm going to take it to my"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":981.2,"endTime":983.66,"body":"family and the people who love"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":983.66,"endTime":987.2,"body":"me the most. So the two ways"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":983.66,"endTime":987.2,"body":"I've decided, I've worked around"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":987.2,"endTime":992.54,"body":"the system is find a microcosm"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":987.2,"endTime":992.54,"body":"inside that big system, or go"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":992.54,"endTime":994.22,"body":"find or create another system."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":995.3,"endTime":997.76,"body":"And now that kind"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":995.3,"endTime":997.76,"body":"of touches on back chatting,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":997.76,"endTime":1000.54,"body":"right? So in our very present"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":997.76,"endTime":1000.54,"body":"day, you were talking about"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1000.54,"endTime":1005.22,"body":"messaging Elaine. So there was"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1000.54,"endTime":1005.22,"body":"there was the back chat. There's"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1005.22,"endTime":1008.16,"body":"all those, but the ultimate back"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1005.22,"endTime":1008.16,"body":"check that kind of talks to what"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1008.16,"endTime":1011.1,"body":"Ravi is. And I'm sorry this is"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1008.16,"endTime":1011.1,"body":"what I wanted to shake. It is"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1011.1,"endTime":1013.98,"body":"that in ancient China, women"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1011.1,"endTime":1013.98,"body":"were not allowed to express"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1014.22,"endTime":1017.46,"body":"themselves. It was for the men."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1014.22,"endTime":1017.46,"body":"The men could go to school, they"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1017.46,"endTime":1019.5,"body":"could talk, they could do all"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1017.46,"endTime":1019.5,"body":"these things. Women were made to"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1019.5,"endTime":1023.6,"body":"say they created and their own"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1019.5,"endTime":1023.6,"body":"writing system. This has passed"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1023.6,"endTime":1026.18,"body":"down from generations in ancient"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1023.6,"endTime":1026.18,"body":"China, and it's like the"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1026.18,"endTime":1030.86,"body":"ultimate back chat. And it's so"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1026.18,"endTime":1030.86,"body":"interesting because it was there"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1030.86,"endTime":1033.44,"body":"that they could find their sense"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1030.86,"endTime":1033.44,"body":"of community, they could find"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1033.44,"endTime":1035.42,"body":"their sense of safety. They"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1033.44,"endTime":1035.42,"body":"weren't even allowed to learn"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1035.42,"endTime":1038.42,"body":"how to read and write. So they"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1035.42,"endTime":1038.42,"body":"created their own system. So"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1038.42,"endTime":1041.26,"body":"that's really cool to think"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1038.42,"endTime":1041.26,"body":"about how voice can be used in"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1041.26,"endTime":1041.74,"body":"that way"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1042.28,"endTime":1046.6,"body":"totally. And"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1042.28,"endTime":1046.6,"body":"to me, it's are you choosing"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1046.6,"endTime":1050.92,"body":"your relationship with the pre"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1046.6,"endTime":1050.92,"body":"existing systems, rather than"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1050.92,"endTime":1053.92,"body":"assuming that that's it and that"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1050.92,"endTime":1053.92,"body":"you need to you know, so much of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1053.92,"endTime":1057.28,"body":"this is women. You need. I've"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1053.92,"endTime":1057.28,"body":"literally gotten the feedback"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1057.28,"endTime":1060.78,"body":"you need to be more man like"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1057.28,"endTime":1060.78,"body":"because you need to fit into the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1060.96,"endTime":1064.74,"body":"pre existing norms within a"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1060.96,"endTime":1064.74,"body":"system. Systems are not net"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1064.74,"endTime":1069.36,"body":"neutral, right? Systems reward"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1064.74,"endTime":1069.36,"body":"certain voices and silence"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1069.42,"endTime":1072.6,"body":"others. We see this in the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1069.42,"endTime":1072.6,"body":"return to Office question,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1072.78,"endTime":1076.2,"body":"right? All policies have"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1072.78,"endTime":1076.2,"body":"impacts. Who does return to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1076.2,"endTime":1079.74,"body":"Office serve the people who are"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1076.2,"endTime":1079.74,"body":"used to leading working in"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1079.74,"endTime":1082.58,"body":"person, who have shorter"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1079.74,"endTime":1082.58,"body":"commutes, who does it silence?"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1082.58,"endTime":1085.4,"body":"The people who benefit from"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1082.58,"endTime":1085.4,"body":"flexibility usually have more"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1085.4,"endTime":1088.28,"body":"caregiving responsibilities,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1085.4,"endTime":1088.28,"body":"longer commutes, right? No"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1088.28,"endTime":1093.08,"body":"policy is neutral. What we can"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1088.28,"endTime":1093.08,"body":"choose, as Ravi saying, is our"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1093.08,"endTime":1096.5,"body":"relationship with the system,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1093.08,"endTime":1096.5,"body":"right? If I am aware of the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1096.5,"endTime":1099.62,"body":"impact that it's having, am I"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1096.5,"endTime":1099.62,"body":"staying within it? Am I fighting"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1099.62,"endTime":1102.64,"body":"within the system to change it?"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1099.62,"endTime":1102.64,"body":"Am I choosing to exit the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1102.64,"endTime":1106.12,"body":"system? Am I choosing to do a"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1102.64,"endTime":1106.12,"body":"subcategory, create my own"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1106.12,"endTime":1109.24,"body":"language, Patricia, as you're"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1106.12,"endTime":1109.24,"body":"saying to me, it's a call to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1109.24,"endTime":1113.32,"body":"action for leaders within the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1109.24,"endTime":1113.32,"body":"system, which is to say, what"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1113.32,"endTime":1116.98,"body":"choices are you leaving your"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1113.32,"endTime":1116.98,"body":"people? And in my book, I quote"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1116.98,"endTime":1120.12,"body":"Albert Hirschman. This is the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1116.98,"endTime":1120.12,"body":"economist from the 1970s of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1120.12,"endTime":1124.74,"body":"you've got three choices, exit,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1120.12,"endTime":1124.74,"body":"voice or loyalty, right? What"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1124.74,"endTime":1128.16,"body":"choices are you giving the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1124.74,"endTime":1128.16,"body":"people on your team? If voice,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1128.16,"endTime":1131.16,"body":"the expression of what you see,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1128.16,"endTime":1131.16,"body":"bringing your insights, your"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1131.16,"endTime":1135.66,"body":"expertise, is not an option,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1131.16,"endTime":1135.66,"body":"then the only two options"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1135.66,"endTime":1139.26,"body":"remaining are exit or loyalty."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1135.66,"endTime":1139.26,"body":"Exit meaning leave the system."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1139.26,"endTime":1142.4,"body":"Take your talents elsewhere. Go"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1139.26,"endTime":1142.4,"body":"work for someone else, build"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1142.4,"endTime":1146.84,"body":"your own language or system. And"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1142.4,"endTime":1146.84,"body":"the people who can have the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1146.84,"endTime":1151.22,"body":"privileges that they Ravi, you"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1146.84,"endTime":1151.22,"body":"mentioned, they might do that,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1152.18,"endTime":1155.72,"body":"have the skill sets have the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1152.18,"endTime":1155.72,"body":"network are going to exit. Go"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1155.72,"endTime":1158.3,"body":"work for someone else, where"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1155.72,"endTime":1158.3,"body":"conditions are better, and what"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1158.3,"endTime":1162.4,"body":"you're left with as a leader is"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1158.3,"endTime":1162.4,"body":"just loyalty, which might feel"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1162.4,"endTime":1165.16,"body":"good in the short term because"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1162.4,"endTime":1165.16,"body":"there's less friction, but"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1165.16,"endTime":1168.76,"body":"loyalty leads to group think."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1165.16,"endTime":1168.76,"body":"Loyalty leads to the echo"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1168.76,"endTime":1171.94,"body":"chamber. Loyalty leads to the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1168.76,"endTime":1171.94,"body":"issues not surfacing until it's"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1171.94,"endTime":1175.72,"body":"too late, and actually creates"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1171.94,"endTime":1175.72,"body":"more problems in the long term."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1175.9,"endTime":1179.62,"body":"So the question I would be"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1175.9,"endTime":1179.62,"body":"asking as a leader, whether you"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1179.62,"endTime":1182.52,"body":"are a formal leader or just"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1179.62,"endTime":1182.52,"body":"someone trying to lead and"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1182.52,"endTime":1186.0,"body":"influence from within. Is what"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1182.52,"endTime":1186.0,"body":"choices Am I giving the people"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1186.0,"endTime":1191.58,"body":"around me? Exit voice or"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1186.0,"endTime":1191.58,"body":"loyalty? Because I'm pretty sure"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1191.58,"endTime":1193.68,"body":"what we're looking for here is"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1191.58,"endTime":1193.68,"body":"voice."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1195.78,"endTime":1199.62,"body":"It's interesting,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1195.78,"endTime":1199.62,"body":"I think especially relevant"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1199.62,"endTime":1204.26,"body":"right now. Now in terms of so"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1199.62,"endTime":1204.26,"body":"many things, but I think a lot"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1204.26,"endTime":1208.34,"body":"of people are wondering what's"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1204.26,"endTime":1208.34,"body":"going on with their jobs, or"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1208.34,"endTime":1212.6,"body":"choose AI, or whatever this is,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1208.34,"endTime":1212.6,"body":"and goals and and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1212.6,"endTime":1216.02,"body":"what is what? What is the goal"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1212.6,"endTime":1216.02,"body":"of company, the strategy and"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1217.1,"endTime":1221.62,"body":"Scrum and Agile, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1217.1,"endTime":1221.62,"body":"really a community based"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1221.62,"endTime":1223.84,"body":"movement. That's all it just"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1221.62,"endTime":1223.84,"body":"started. It's like, there's,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1223.84,"endTime":1226.6,"body":"there's, you know, for us,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1223.84,"endTime":1226.6,"body":"there's some pages that describe"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1226.6,"endTime":1229.9,"body":"process, and there were so much"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1226.6,"endTime":1229.9,"body":"like you were doing a great job"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1229.9,"endTime":1233.08,"body":"talking about the values and all"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1229.9,"endTime":1233.08,"body":"these things that have different"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1233.08,"endTime":1235.36,"body":"layers. So of course, we knew we"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1233.08,"endTime":1235.36,"body":"were going to have you on the"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1235.36,"endTime":1239.5,"body":"podcast. I asked, Hey, any"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1235.36,"endTime":1239.5,"body":"questions that we think that"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1239.5,"endTime":1242.28,"body":"would be great to toss around to"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1239.5,"endTime":1242.28,"body":"it, or just some things to"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1242.28,"endTime":1248.34,"body":"explore. And Robbie, you said"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1242.28,"endTime":1248.34,"body":"several, I think that I would"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1248.34,"endTime":1252.36,"body":"say they were almost kind of on"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1248.34,"endTime":1252.36,"body":"this, this level of the cost of"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1252.36,"endTime":1255.72,"body":"silence and how you deal with"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1252.36,"endTime":1255.72,"body":"that. That's how I framed it for"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1255.72,"endTime":1260.18,"body":"myself. Do you? Do you want to"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1255.72,"endTime":1260.18,"body":"kind of go through some of those"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1260.18,"endTime":1264.26,"body":"thoughts about, what does it"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1260.18,"endTime":1264.26,"body":"mean when you're when you're"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1264.26,"endTime":1269.54,"body":"silent in a community driven"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1264.26,"endTime":1269.54,"body":"whatever, and there are common"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1269.54,"endTime":1272.78,"body":"goals, and what are those three"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1269.54,"endTime":1272.78,"body":"options that you know Elaine"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1272.78,"endTime":1276.5,"body":"just mentioned responsibility."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1272.78,"endTime":1276.5,"body":"You have that very layered in"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1276.5,"endTime":1279.2,"body":"there responsibility and"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1276.5,"endTime":1279.2,"body":"accountability in your questions"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1279.2,"endTime":1279.38,"body":"too."},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1280.52,"endTime":1282.64,"body":"Yeah, I think, you"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1280.52,"endTime":1282.64,"body":"know, I was just listening to"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1282.88,"endTime":1287.14,"body":"Elaine's book, and there's a"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1282.88,"endTime":1287.14,"body":"section about reactive decision"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1287.14,"endTime":1291.16,"body":"making and reflective decision"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1287.14,"endTime":1291.16,"body":"making. And I'll tied back to"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1291.16,"endTime":1296.92,"body":"your question, Patricia, but"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1291.16,"endTime":1296.92,"body":"what I remembered was, 26 years,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1296.92,"endTime":1300.84,"body":"almost 27 years, in the tech"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1296.92,"endTime":1300.84,"body":"industry, and there are biases"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1300.84,"endTime":1305.46,"body":"in our tech industry, and the"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1300.84,"endTime":1305.46,"body":"bias is reactive decision"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1305.46,"endTime":1308.82,"body":"making, and it reminds me of"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1305.46,"endTime":1308.82,"body":"something I learned from my life"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1308.82,"endTime":1315.24,"body":"coach. So it's the be no, do get"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1308.82,"endTime":1315.24,"body":"level. So let's start with"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1315.24,"endTime":1318.12,"body":"getting so let's say I'm an"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1315.24,"endTime":1318.12,"body":"executive in a software product"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1318.12,"endTime":1322.16,"body":"development company. Stock price"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1318.12,"endTime":1322.16,"body":"is not good. I'm not getting the"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1322.16,"endTime":1324.98,"body":"stock price and my bonus and"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1322.16,"endTime":1324.98,"body":"promotion right. So what do I"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1324.98,"endTime":1328.4,"body":"do? I start thinking, what do I"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1324.98,"endTime":1328.4,"body":"need to do different Okay, let"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1328.4,"endTime":1334.94,"body":"me introduce Scrum, agile, Gen"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1328.4,"endTime":1334.94,"body":"AI the buzzword then even that's"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1334.94,"endTime":1337.58,"body":"not working. What do I do? The"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1334.94,"endTime":1337.58,"body":"next layer is, what do I need to"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1337.58,"endTime":1340.66,"body":"know? Especially in our"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1337.58,"endTime":1340.66,"body":"industry, we are certification"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1340.66,"endTime":1343.66,"body":"junkies. Okay, let me go get new"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1340.66,"endTime":1343.66,"body":"certification. Let me go attend"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1343.66,"endTime":1348.1,"body":"a workshop. But the problem is,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1343.66,"endTime":1348.1,"body":"in the last fundamental layer,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1348.1,"endTime":1352.96,"body":"who am I being? You can change"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1348.1,"endTime":1352.96,"body":"everything at the other three"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1352.96,"endTime":1357.04,"body":"layers. But if there's the"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1352.96,"endTime":1357.04,"body":"substrata, the bedrock of who"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1357.04,"endTime":1360.4,"body":"I'm being is not change, you're"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1357.04,"endTime":1360.4,"body":"going to get the same results."},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1360.76,"endTime":1363.96,"body":"So what listening to Elaine's"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1360.76,"endTime":1363.96,"body":"book and the reactive,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1363.96,"endTime":1370.44,"body":"reflective that tension reminded"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1363.96,"endTime":1370.44,"body":"me is very often in Scrum, the"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1370.68,"endTime":1375.84,"body":"name of the game is"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1370.68,"endTime":1375.84,"body":"transparency, and if you don't"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1375.84,"endTime":1379.44,"body":"have high quality information,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1375.84,"endTime":1379.44,"body":"you won't get high quality"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1379.44,"endTime":1385.34,"body":"decisions. And the bedrock of"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1379.44,"endTime":1385.34,"body":"transparency is voice. And if"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1385.34,"endTime":1390.62,"body":"there's silence, the whole damn"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1385.34,"endTime":1390.62,"body":"architecture is unstable. And as"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1390.62,"endTime":1394.64,"body":"I look back at the older version"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1390.62,"endTime":1394.64,"body":"of me, maybe not that old, even"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1394.64,"endTime":1398.06,"body":"a recent version, one year ago,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1394.64,"endTime":1398.06,"body":"I remember getting cranky with"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1398.06,"endTime":1401.38,"body":"people in training. Hey, why"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1398.06,"endTime":1401.38,"body":"don't you speak up. I remember"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1401.38,"endTime":1404.38,"body":"getting cranky with people and"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1401.38,"endTime":1404.38,"body":"facilitating retrospectives. Why"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1404.38,"endTime":1408.28,"body":"won't you speak up? I get"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1404.38,"endTime":1408.28,"body":"cranky, Hey, why did nobody"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1408.28,"endTime":1412.18,"body":"bring this up in sprint"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1408.28,"endTime":1412.18,"body":"planning? Or I remember telling"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1412.18,"endTime":1414.88,"body":"getting frustrated with the"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1412.18,"endTime":1414.88,"body":"scrum master in a consulting"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1414.88,"endTime":1418.24,"body":"engagement, why can't you just"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1414.88,"endTime":1418.24,"body":"speak up to your boss? Why are"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1418.24,"endTime":1421.68,"body":"you telling me all these issues?"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1418.24,"endTime":1421.68,"body":"And then I listened to Elaine's"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1421.68,"endTime":1425.64,"body":"book, and I realized, oh, I have"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1421.68,"endTime":1425.64,"body":"so many layers of privilege, and"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1425.64,"endTime":1429.3,"body":"there are so it's a complex"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1425.64,"endTime":1429.3,"body":"equation in so many variables"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1429.66,"endTime":1434.52,"body":"that influences the calculus,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1429.66,"endTime":1434.52,"body":"should I speak and risk personal"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1434.64,"endTime":1440.28,"body":"retribution, or should I be"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1434.64,"endTime":1440.28,"body":"silent and maybe protect myself"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1440.28,"endTime":1443.96,"body":"And my salary. So speaking, as"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1440.28,"endTime":1443.96,"body":"Elaine points out, is more for"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1443.96,"endTime":1448.52,"body":"the good of the community, the"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1443.96,"endTime":1448.52,"body":"product and but the retribution"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1448.52,"endTime":1452.78,"body":"is likely individual. So that's"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1448.52,"endTime":1452.78,"body":"what came to my mind, and which"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1452.78,"endTime":1455.66,"body":"is why I wanted Elaine to be on"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1452.78,"endTime":1455.66,"body":"this podcast and share her"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1455.66,"endTime":1456.2,"body":"perspective."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1457.1,"endTime":1459.74,"body":"And there's so"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1457.1,"endTime":1459.74,"body":"many obviously, this is, this is"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1459.74,"endTime":1463.48,"body":"a shorter podcast I could talk"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1459.74,"endTime":1463.48,"body":"to you both for much longer, and"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1465.16,"endTime":1468.22,"body":"they you have a lot of great"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1465.16,"endTime":1468.22,"body":"there's, there's a technique you"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1468.22,"endTime":1470.92,"body":"have in the book, and it's like"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1468.22,"endTime":1470.92,"body":"every chapter has reflections,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1470.92,"endTime":1473.8,"body":"and so there's, there's good"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1470.92,"endTime":1473.8,"body":"things that for those who are"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1473.8,"endTime":1477.4,"body":"interested, just explore that"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1473.8,"endTime":1477.4,"body":"from an individual perspective."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1478.42,"endTime":1481.32,"body":"One that I loved was what parts"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1478.42,"endTime":1481.32,"body":"of yourself might you be"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1481.32,"endTime":1484.62,"body":"silencing currently? That"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1481.32,"endTime":1484.62,"body":"actually made me think of Ravi,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1484.62,"endTime":1486.96,"body":"because he, I think he's"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1484.62,"endTime":1486.96,"body":"probably asked me that before,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1488.16,"endTime":1491.22,"body":"and how do you even know if"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1488.16,"endTime":1491.22,"body":"you're silencing yourself? But"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1491.22,"endTime":1494.58,"body":"Ravi is kind of dipped into the"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1491.22,"endTime":1494.58,"body":"next, the next part, which is"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1494.58,"endTime":1496.86,"body":"you start you have some"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1494.58,"endTime":1496.86,"body":"awareness, and you start to take"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1496.86,"endTime":1499.38,"body":"some action. And so your, your"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1496.86,"endTime":1499.38,"body":"book is structured that way."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1499.5,"endTime":1504.98,"body":"Yeah. So when would you say? How"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1499.5,"endTime":1504.98,"body":"can someone start to think about"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1504.98,"endTime":1508.22,"body":"a couple things? Because we've"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1504.98,"endTime":1508.22,"body":"said, you know, okay, we're"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1508.22,"endTime":1512.24,"body":"exploring this art of UN"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1508.22,"endTime":1512.24,"body":"silencing ourselves. But in"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1512.24,"endTime":1515.3,"body":"that, there's a power in knowing"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1512.24,"endTime":1515.3,"body":"when silence is the right"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1515.3,"endTime":1520.12,"body":"choice. When how do you how do"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1515.3,"endTime":1520.12,"body":"you explore that? How do you"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1520.12,"endTime":1524.38,"body":"start to understand that in more"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1520.12,"endTime":1524.38,"body":"than Hey, when you're"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1524.38,"endTime":1527.38,"body":"facilitating, you know, shut"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1524.38,"endTime":1527.38,"body":"your mouth. Count to 10. Let"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1527.38,"endTime":1532.9,"body":"people think might be be open,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1527.38,"endTime":1532.9,"body":"but when is from negotiation?"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1532.9,"endTime":1536.8,"body":"When? When should you be"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1532.9,"endTime":1536.8,"body":"intentional about allowing there"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1536.8,"endTime":1537.46,"body":"to be silence?"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1538.18,"endTime":1540.84,"body":"Yeah, for"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1538.18,"endTime":1540.84,"body":"people who like citations, this"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1540.84,"endTime":1544.62,"body":"is chapter three in the book,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1540.84,"endTime":1544.62,"body":"which is titled, when silence"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1544.62,"endTime":1550.98,"body":"makes sense again. Silence has"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1544.62,"endTime":1550.98,"body":"many different impacts. And"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1550.98,"endTime":1554.1,"body":"actually the difference between"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1550.98,"endTime":1554.1,"body":"silence that is additive or"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1554.1,"endTime":1557.88,"body":"strategic, right, allowing other"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1554.1,"endTime":1557.88,"body":"people time to think, allowing"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1557.88,"endTime":1560.54,"body":"different voices to come"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1557.88,"endTime":1560.54,"body":"forward, because we have"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1560.54,"endTime":1565.64,"body":"different processing times or"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1560.54,"endTime":1565.64,"body":"silence that is damaging or"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1565.64,"endTime":1570.56,"body":"oppressive is agency. Are you"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1565.64,"endTime":1570.56,"body":"choosing it? Take it from a"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1570.56,"endTime":1573.02,"body":"really practical perspective,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1570.56,"endTime":1573.02,"body":"we're all wired differently,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1573.38,"endTime":1575.72,"body":"right? So if voice is an"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1573.38,"endTime":1575.72,"body":"expression of who we are, we're"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1575.72,"endTime":1580.12,"body":"going to have different voices."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1575.72,"endTime":1580.12,"body":"We know that logically, how are"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1580.12,"endTime":1583.6,"body":"we wired differently? One of the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1580.12,"endTime":1583.6,"body":"primary ways that we're wired"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1583.6,"endTime":1586.24,"body":"differently is there are real"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1583.6,"endTime":1586.24,"body":"time processors and there are"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1586.24,"endTime":1589.72,"body":"post processors. So if you've"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1586.24,"endTime":1589.72,"body":"ever sat in a meeting, you can't"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1589.72,"endTime":1593.02,"body":"quite figure out what to say. 20"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1589.72,"endTime":1593.02,"body":"minutes after the meeting ends,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1593.02,"endTime":1596.08,"body":"you're like, oh, that's what I"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1593.02,"endTime":1596.08,"body":"wanted to say, right? How many"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1596.08,"endTime":1598.78,"body":"of us have been there and we get"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1596.08,"endTime":1598.78,"body":"performance feedback that we"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1598.78,"endTime":1601.5,"body":"need to be quicker on our feet,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1598.78,"endTime":1601.5,"body":"we need to be more responsive."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1601.5,"endTime":1604.74,"body":"Maybe work on our extemporaneous"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1601.5,"endTime":1604.74,"body":"speaking. Maybe take an improv"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1604.74,"endTime":1607.86,"body":"class to get better at that."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1604.74,"endTime":1607.86,"body":"Those are all good and useful"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1607.86,"endTime":1612.66,"body":"things, but we're actually"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1607.86,"endTime":1612.66,"body":"calling something that is a"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1612.66,"endTime":1617.1,"body":"difference in wiring a weakness"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1612.66,"endTime":1617.1,"body":"versus Wow, our brains work"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1617.1,"endTime":1622.64,"body":"differently. So how can we"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1617.1,"endTime":1622.64,"body":"design the way we work to be"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1622.64,"endTime":1626.48,"body":"able to capture not just the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1622.64,"endTime":1626.48,"body":"loudest and fastest voices, but"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1626.48,"endTime":1630.56,"body":"also the post processors. This"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1626.48,"endTime":1630.56,"body":"is Kahneman working on slow and"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1630.56,"endTime":1634.1,"body":"fast thinking, right? And it"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1630.56,"endTime":1634.1,"body":"doesn't mean we don't have our"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1634.1,"endTime":1637.4,"body":"meetings anymore. It does mean"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1634.1,"endTime":1637.4,"body":"that whoever's owning the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1637.4,"endTime":1639.44,"body":"meeting might say, All right,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1637.4,"endTime":1639.44,"body":"here's where I think we're"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1639.44,"endTime":1643.72,"body":"headed. Everyone, sleep on it as"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1639.44,"endTime":1643.72,"body":"you post process, share whatever"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1643.72,"endTime":1647.62,"body":"comes up, you know, in this"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1643.72,"endTime":1647.62,"body":"portal, or leaving a ticket, or"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1647.62,"endTime":1652.0,"body":"replying all, or whatever works"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1647.62,"endTime":1652.0,"body":"best for your team. And we've"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1652.0,"endTime":1654.4,"body":"done that because we've planned"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1652.0,"endTime":1654.4,"body":"ahead, so we actually have the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1654.4,"endTime":1659.56,"body":"night for people to sleep on the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1654.4,"endTime":1659.56,"body":"idea. But we're also normalizing"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1659.56,"endTime":1662.46,"body":"post processing versus"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1659.56,"endTime":1662.46,"body":"prioritizing, real time"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1662.46,"endTime":1665.52,"body":"processors. Real Time"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1662.46,"endTime":1665.52,"body":"processors, the more we talk"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1665.52,"endTime":1668.58,"body":"something out in the moment, the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1665.52,"endTime":1668.58,"body":"more clear the idea gets. The"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1668.58,"endTime":1672.0,"body":"post processors are like, Will"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1668.58,"endTime":1672.0,"body":"you shut up and let me think I"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1672.0,"endTime":1677.34,"body":"need time to cash and compile,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1672.0,"endTime":1677.34,"body":"right? Let's design differently,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1677.34,"endTime":1684.5,"body":"because we are prioritizing one"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1677.34,"endTime":1684.5,"body":"way, one voice that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1684.5,"endTime":1687.5,"body":"serve us, because we don't hear"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1684.5,"endTime":1687.5,"body":"from the insights of people who"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1687.5,"endTime":1688.46,"body":"process differently."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1689.9,"endTime":1692.9,"body":"I think that is"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1689.9,"endTime":1692.9,"body":"really especially when we talk"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1692.9,"endTime":1696.8,"body":"about facilitation in terms of,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1692.9,"endTime":1696.8,"body":"like the scrum events, or we're"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1696.8,"endTime":1698.9,"body":"planning, it's ours, right?"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1696.8,"endTime":1698.9,"body":"We're gonna figure this out, and"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1698.9,"endTime":1701.44,"body":"then we have another event,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1698.9,"endTime":1701.44,"body":"sometimes refine it. And it's"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1701.44,"endTime":1704.5,"body":"really important to consider"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1701.44,"endTime":1704.5,"body":"that. And how people think about"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1704.5,"endTime":1708.52,"body":"planning, why people change"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1704.5,"endTime":1708.52,"body":"their minds, Thunder the notion"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1708.52,"endTime":1711.64,"body":"that convergence diver, it's not"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1708.52,"endTime":1711.64,"body":"linear, right? The ways that"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1711.64,"endTime":1715.12,"body":"people make decisions and it's"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1711.64,"endTime":1715.12,"body":"and it's and it's okay. So,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1716.44,"endTime":1721.14,"body":"Ravi, you are nodding your head"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1716.44,"endTime":1721.14,"body":"a lot, very vigorously, because"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1721.14,"endTime":1724.98,"body":"you're a post processor,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1721.14,"endTime":1724.98,"body":"according to chapter three of"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1725.52,"endTime":1726.0,"body":"this awesome"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1726.0,"endTime":1728.58,"body":"book that reminded"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1726.0,"endTime":1728.58,"body":"me of something I learned in my"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1728.58,"endTime":1733.5,"body":"my Myers Briggs training, that"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1728.58,"endTime":1733.5,"body":"extroverts think by talking, and"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1733.5,"endTime":1738.42,"body":"introverts like me, we need"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1733.5,"endTime":1738.42,"body":"silence. We need we think before"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1738.42,"endTime":1741.08,"body":"talking. And that's where"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1738.42,"endTime":1741.08,"body":"there's a clash. There's a"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1741.08,"endTime":1743.6,"body":"tension in meetings and"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1741.08,"endTime":1743.6,"body":"facilitation. And I think the"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1743.66,"endTime":1748.64,"body":"art of giving people voice and"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1743.66,"endTime":1748.64,"body":"choice is for facilitators and"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1748.64,"endTime":1751.22,"body":"people with power and privilege"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1748.64,"endTime":1751.22,"body":"to first of all be aware of this"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1751.22,"endTime":1755.3,"body":"dynamic and this diversity in"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1751.22,"endTime":1755.3,"body":"human beings and how to set up"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1755.3,"endTime":1760.36,"body":"the environment that harnesses"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1755.3,"endTime":1760.36,"body":"the unique strengths of all in"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1760.36,"endTime":1763.24,"body":"pursuit of a shared goal, which"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1760.36,"endTime":1763.24,"body":"could be solving complex"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1763.24,"endTime":1766.42,"body":"problems, maximizing your stock"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1763.24,"endTime":1766.42,"body":"price, whatever be your shared"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1766.42,"endTime":1771.16,"body":"context, it requires nuance, and"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":1766.42,"endTime":1771.16,"body":"so that's why I was"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1772.06,"endTime":1775.36,"body":"nodding. And"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1772.06,"endTime":1775.36,"body":"notice that processing style is"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1775.36,"endTime":1779.74,"body":"only one of many factors, right?"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1775.36,"endTime":1779.74,"body":"Another is in terms of wiring,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1779.74,"endTime":1782.64,"body":"is are you a morning person? Are"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1779.74,"endTime":1782.64,"body":"you a night owl? Or I've asked"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1782.64,"endTime":1785.34,"body":"this question to enough groups"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1782.64,"endTime":1785.34,"body":"that some people, apparently"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1785.34,"endTime":1788.16,"body":"their power hour, when they're"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1785.34,"endTime":1788.16,"body":"thinking is finest is midday,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1788.64,"endTime":1791.88,"body":"which as a morning person. I'm"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1788.64,"endTime":1791.88,"body":"like, I don't understand. It's"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1791.88,"endTime":1792.18,"body":"called."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1793.2,"endTime":1795.54,"body":"I'm only 10 to"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1793.2,"endTime":1795.54,"body":"two. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1796.08,"endTime":1798.6,"body":"she's one of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1796.08,"endTime":1798.6,"body":"the Patricia such tend to to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1798.66,"endTime":1801.56,"body":"her, right? But then. We have"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1798.66,"endTime":1801.56,"body":"time zones, and we're working"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1801.56,"endTime":1806.72,"body":"across geographies, and so the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1801.56,"endTime":1806.72,"body":"9am meeting Eastern Standard"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1806.72,"endTime":1811.04,"body":"Time is not net neutral. It"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1806.72,"endTime":1811.04,"body":"doesn't mean that we stop"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1811.04,"endTime":1815.06,"body":"meeting, but it's that if we"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1811.04,"endTime":1815.06,"body":"have the opportunity to design"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1815.06,"endTime":1818.72,"body":"differently, or we realize"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1815.06,"endTime":1818.72,"body":"everyone actually hates real"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1818.72,"endTime":1822.34,"body":"time conversations, we should do"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1818.72,"endTime":1822.34,"body":"this asynchronously. Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1822.34,"endTime":1828.22,"body":"Play to those strengths, reduce"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1822.34,"endTime":1828.22,"body":"the barriers, because so often"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1828.22,"endTime":1831.16,"body":"we're working in autopilot,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1828.22,"endTime":1831.16,"body":"right? This team has always done"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1831.16,"endTime":1834.52,"body":"things. There's always been a"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1831.16,"endTime":1834.52,"body":"9am meeting on Fridays, even if"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1834.52,"endTime":1840.42,"body":"everyone hates it. Oh yeah, move"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1834.52,"endTime":1840.42,"body":"it to 10 o'clock. But before two"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1840.42,"endTime":1841.8,"body":"o'clock is what I hear you say."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1842.04,"endTime":1847.38,"body":"Now I Yes, yes,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1842.04,"endTime":1847.38,"body":"yes. But I love that, because"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1847.38,"endTime":1852.3,"body":"you talk about, when you talk"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1847.38,"endTime":1852.3,"body":"about some of those, like great"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1852.3,"endTime":1854.7,"body":"techniques, tips, things to"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1852.3,"endTime":1854.7,"body":"consider in the in the second"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1854.7,"endTime":1857.1,"body":"half of the book, and how to"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1854.7,"endTime":1857.1,"body":"think about that, not only"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1857.1,"endTime":1860.28,"body":"communication styles. You talk"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1857.1,"endTime":1860.28,"body":"about level of directness. I"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1860.28,"endTime":1863.0,"body":"think that that, especially for"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1860.28,"endTime":1863.0,"body":"us when we're dealing with"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1863.0,"endTime":1866.18,"body":"stakeholders, or anybody dealing"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1863.0,"endTime":1866.18,"body":"with stakeholders or with their"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1866.18,"endTime":1868.88,"body":"teams, how to, how to, how to,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1866.18,"endTime":1868.88,"body":"how to do that, because we think"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1868.88,"endTime":1873.98,"body":"about, you know, in a team, who"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1868.88,"endTime":1873.98,"body":"are our stakeholders, how often"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1873.98,"endTime":1878.24,"body":"should we interact with them?"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1873.98,"endTime":1878.24,"body":"Why? But we, we this. This was a"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1878.24,"endTime":1882.64,"body":"new layer for me, the level of"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1878.24,"endTime":1882.64,"body":"directness and how to, how to,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1882.64,"endTime":1885.76,"body":"kind of, how to, kind of"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1882.64,"endTime":1885.76,"body":"navigate that. So that's in the"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1885.76,"endTime":1890.32,"body":"book that was really cool."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1885.76,"endTime":1890.32,"body":"There's for the end of the book."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1890.32,"endTime":1892.54,"body":"And we're not going to talk"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1890.32,"endTime":1892.54,"body":"about systems. That's a whole"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1892.54,"endTime":1895.54,"body":"nother day, but you basically"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1892.54,"endTime":1895.54,"body":"talk about using small"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1895.54,"endTime":1899.2,"body":"experiments to start for people"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1895.54,"endTime":1899.2,"body":"to start to build your muscles."},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1899.2,"endTime":1901.44,"body":"If this isn't something that"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1899.2,"endTime":1901.44,"body":"you're used to, and I have the"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1901.44,"endTime":1905.7,"body":"same exact experience you did"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1901.44,"endTime":1905.7,"body":"that you gave in the book lane,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1905.7,"endTime":1908.52,"body":"where you're, like, I was in a"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1905.7,"endTime":1908.52,"body":"taxi and I don't know it was hot"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1908.52,"endTime":1910.8,"body":"or something like that,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1908.52,"endTime":1910.8,"body":"something and like, I just"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1910.8,"endTime":1914.1,"body":"couldn't, I couldn't, and I"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1910.8,"endTime":1914.1,"body":"tried, and it was okay, and,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1914.58,"endTime":1918.36,"body":"and, and, and I love that. And"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1914.58,"endTime":1918.36,"body":"so it's those small things that"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1918.36,"endTime":1923.0,"body":"should people should try. But"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1918.36,"endTime":1923.0,"body":"what other recommendations"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1923.06,"endTime":1928.52,"body":"within the workplace? Both of"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1923.06,"endTime":1928.52,"body":"you want to leave people with"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1928.52,"endTime":1933.2,"body":"who are listening today to just"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1928.52,"endTime":1933.2,"body":"get started beyond getting the"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":1933.2,"endTime":1933.62,"body":"book."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1934.52,"endTime":1937.64,"body":"Yeah, Ravi,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1934.52,"endTime":1937.64,"body":"I'll go first and invite you to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1937.64,"endTime":1941.68,"body":"add so on the try something,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1937.64,"endTime":1941.68,"body":"right? Design a small"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1941.68,"endTime":1945.88,"body":"experiment. Oftentimes it's I"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1941.68,"endTime":1945.88,"body":"want to offer something. I want"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1945.88,"endTime":1948.16,"body":"to offer my perspective, but I"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1945.88,"endTime":1948.16,"body":"actually don't know how to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1948.16,"endTime":1953.44,"body":"interject. And my favorite two"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1948.16,"endTime":1953.44,"body":"ways of interjecting are, I see"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1953.44,"endTime":1956.62,"body":"it differently, right? I see it"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1953.44,"endTime":1956.62,"body":"differently doesn't mean you're"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1956.62,"endTime":1959.74,"body":"wrong. Doesn't mean I'm telling"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1956.62,"endTime":1959.74,"body":"you you're bad. It just means,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1959.74,"endTime":1963.84,"body":"literally, I see it differently."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1959.74,"endTime":1963.84,"body":"So that's like the yellow flag"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1963.84,"endTime":1967.32,"body":"to stop the conversation so that"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1963.84,"endTime":1967.32,"body":"you can formulate the rest of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1967.32,"endTime":1971.1,"body":"your thought to add it and"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1967.32,"endTime":1971.1,"body":"whether how difference is"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1971.1,"endTime":1973.74,"body":"treated is actually a litmus"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1971.1,"endTime":1973.74,"body":"test for the health of a team."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1974.34,"endTime":1977.1,"body":"Because on some teams, on some"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1974.34,"endTime":1977.1,"body":"toxic teams, difference is not"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1977.1,"endTime":1981.02,"body":"okay. That's that loyalty we're"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1977.1,"endTime":1981.02,"body":"talking about earlier. That's"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1981.02,"endTime":1984.14,"body":"also the call to action for the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1981.02,"endTime":1984.14,"body":"leaders to normalize difference"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1984.14,"endTime":1987.2,"body":"and oh, great, you see it"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1984.14,"endTime":1987.2,"body":"differently. Another is from"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1987.2,"endTime":1990.98,"body":"where I sit, from where I sit."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1987.2,"endTime":1990.98,"body":"That deadline doesn't seem"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1990.98,"endTime":1995.42,"body":"possible, right? It allows you"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1990.98,"endTime":1995.42,"body":"to owe the own the legitimacy"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1995.42,"endTime":1999.38,"body":"and the limitation of your own"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1995.42,"endTime":1999.38,"body":"perspective. What many of us do"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1999.38,"endTime":2002.1,"body":"is because we're not omnipotent."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":1999.38,"endTime":2002.1,"body":"We can't see everything. We"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2002.1,"endTime":2005.94,"body":"discount our own perspectives."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2002.1,"endTime":2005.94,"body":"Versus saying from where I sit,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2005.94,"endTime":2009.48,"body":"it doesn't make sense from where"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2005.94,"endTime":2009.48,"body":"I sit also naturally begs the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2009.48,"endTime":2012.42,"body":"question, what does it look like"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2009.48,"endTime":2012.42,"body":"from where you sit? Because you"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2012.42,"endTime":2015.84,"body":"literally sit on the other side"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2012.42,"endTime":2015.84,"body":"of the country or the globe. So"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2015.84,"endTime":2018.42,"body":"of course, things are going to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2015.84,"endTime":2018.42,"body":"look differently because you"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2018.42,"endTime":2021.98,"body":"have a different piece of the"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2018.42,"endTime":2021.98,"body":"puzzle. So I see it differently,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2022.16,"endTime":2024.92,"body":"or from where I sit, if you're"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2022.16,"endTime":2024.92,"body":"looking for really practical"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2024.92,"endTime":2029.12,"body":"ways to inject your voice, if"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2024.92,"endTime":2029.12,"body":"that hasn't been part of your"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2029.12,"endTime":2034.88,"body":"practice, the other big piece"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2029.12,"endTime":2034.88,"body":"for starting are those practical"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2034.88,"endTime":2040.28,"body":"decision choices for leaders, of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2034.88,"endTime":2040.28,"body":"what voices Am I welcoming by,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2040.28,"endTime":2043.24,"body":"what I reward, right? What"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2040.28,"endTime":2043.24,"body":"choices Am I giving people exit"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2043.24,"endTime":2048.16,"body":"voice loyalty. And the natural"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2043.24,"endTime":2048.16,"body":"human default is to assume that"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2048.16,"endTime":2051.4,"body":"other people are like us. So if"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2048.16,"endTime":2051.4,"body":"we're morning people, we've"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2051.4,"endTime":2054.88,"body":"already run the half marathon"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2051.4,"endTime":2054.88,"body":"before everyone else wakes up."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2055.24,"endTime":2059.38,"body":"And we like 9am meetings, and we"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2055.24,"endTime":2059.38,"body":"like to talk things out, we tend"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2059.38,"endTime":2065.46,"body":"to default to those practices"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2059.38,"endTime":2065.46,"body":"unless we have the awareness"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2065.64,"endTime":2068.76,"body":"that people aren't wired like"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2065.64,"endTime":2068.76,"body":"us, and then we can choose our"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2068.76,"endTime":2072.54,"body":"actions of let's see what"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2068.76,"endTime":2072.54,"body":"actually supports the voices of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2072.54,"endTime":2076.2,"body":"the people on my team, because I"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2072.54,"endTime":2076.2,"body":"care about what they have to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2076.2,"endTime":2080.1,"body":"say, because openness and"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2076.2,"endTime":2080.1,"body":"transparency means I need to"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2080.1,"endTime":2083.06,"body":"know what they have to say, and"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2080.1,"endTime":2083.06,"body":"because I can't make good"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2083.06,"endTime":2086.6,"body":"decisions if I don't hear what"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2083.06,"endTime":2086.6,"body":"they have to say. And so we"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2086.6,"endTime":2089.36,"body":"might do some things"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2086.6,"endTime":2089.36,"body":"asynchronously. We might move"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2089.36,"endTime":2093.74,"body":"the meeting to 2pm whatever it"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2089.36,"endTime":2093.74,"body":"is the action for me would be a"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2093.74,"endTime":2096.8,"body":"design challenge to take one"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2093.74,"endTime":2096.8,"body":"standing meeting that you have"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2097.64,"endTime":2101.26,"body":"analyze it through the lens of"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2097.64,"endTime":2101.26,"body":"what choices. Is a synchronous,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2101.26,"endTime":2105.82,"body":"real time virtual typing versus"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2101.26,"endTime":2105.82,"body":"talking, whatever it is, video"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2105.82,"endTime":2109.48,"body":"on, video off, analyze it"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2105.82,"endTime":2109.48,"body":"through all the design choices"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2109.48,"endTime":2112.24,"body":"of what plays to your strengths,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2109.48,"endTime":2112.24,"body":"to extent you don't know what"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2112.24,"endTime":2115.36,"body":"makes it easier for the other"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2112.24,"endTime":2115.36,"body":"people on your team to express"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2115.36,"endTime":2119.14,"body":"themselves. That's a 32nd"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2115.36,"endTime":2119.14,"body":"conversation that pays dividends"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2119.5,"endTime":2123.24,"body":"in not having to figure out by"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2119.5,"endTime":2123.24,"body":"trial and error, or for those"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2123.24,"endTime":2126.6,"body":"people to feel like you don't"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2123.24,"endTime":2126.6,"body":"care about them, right? And then"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2126.6,"endTime":2130.26,"body":"optimize design differently. Try"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2126.6,"endTime":2130.26,"body":"it as an experiment. See what"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2130.26,"endTime":2134.52,"body":"you learn. See what comes up. My"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2130.26,"endTime":2134.52,"body":"money is on you actually hear"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2134.52,"endTime":2137.88,"body":"more from the people that you"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2134.52,"endTime":2137.88,"body":"need to hear from, because"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2137.88,"endTime":2140.54,"body":"you're reducing some of those"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2137.88,"endTime":2140.54,"body":"barriers that you never intended"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2141.14,"endTime":2142.4,"body":"to be there in the first place?"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2143.06,"endTime":2148.04,"body":"Yeah, and I like"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2143.06,"endTime":2148.04,"body":"those, the practical statement"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2148.04,"endTime":2151.52,"body":"of just, I don't see it that way"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2148.04,"endTime":2151.52,"body":"from where I'm sitting, because"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2151.52,"endTime":2155.96,"body":"that's very that begs someone to"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2151.52,"endTime":2155.96,"body":"be empathetic, take a pause,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2155.96,"endTime":2160.54,"body":"reflect, versus when someone"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2155.96,"endTime":2160.54,"body":"goes I don't agree or no, you"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2160.54,"endTime":2163.06,"body":"know which is, which is already"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2160.54,"endTime":2163.06,"body":"good. When you can be like, I"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2163.06,"endTime":2165.46,"body":"don't agree, and you can"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2163.06,"endTime":2165.46,"body":"explain, because somebody might"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2165.46,"endTime":2168.22,"body":"just be like, Well, I don't care"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2165.46,"endTime":2168.22,"body":"if you agree, and that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2168.22,"endTime":2170.44,"body":"really matter, right? But the"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2168.22,"endTime":2170.44,"body":"other one begged a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2171.04,"endTime":2173.68,"body":"curiosity. So, so that's that's"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2171.04,"endTime":2173.68,"body":"really helpful, and all those"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2173.68,"endTime":2179.8,"body":"other things are, are very"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2173.68,"endTime":2179.8,"body":"important to Ravi, have you"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2179.8,"endTime":2180.96,"body":"finished post processing."},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2182.64,"endTime":2185.7,"body":"So much, yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2182.64,"endTime":2185.7,"body":"much to think about. So I feel"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2185.7,"endTime":2189.3,"body":"like one of the key messages or"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2185.7,"endTime":2189.3,"body":"takeaways from Elaine's book is"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2189.3,"endTime":2193.68,"body":"Be curious, not furious. Be"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2189.3,"endTime":2193.68,"body":"curious, what else might be at"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2193.68,"endTime":2197.22,"body":"play here in terms of"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2193.68,"endTime":2197.22,"body":"influencing voice, choice,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2197.22,"endTime":2201.2,"body":"noise, the whole spectrum. And I"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2197.22,"endTime":2201.2,"body":"love it reminds me of some"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2201.2,"endTime":2204.98,"body":"things that I learned from Ken"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2201.2,"endTime":2204.98,"body":"Schwaber in the PSM class. So"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2205.58,"endTime":2210.08,"body":"one of Ken's favorite quotes is"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2205.58,"endTime":2210.08,"body":"ask the team, the person with"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2210.08,"endTime":2213.92,"body":"power or privilege or awareness"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2210.08,"endTime":2213.92,"body":"does not need to shoulder the"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2213.92,"endTime":2218.96,"body":"burden of solving it. You can"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2213.92,"endTime":2218.96,"body":"tap into the collective wisdom"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2219.26,"endTime":2225.76,"body":"of the team and ask questions"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2219.26,"endTime":2225.76,"body":"like, what might influence"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2225.82,"endTime":2232.48,"body":"voice? How might it impact our"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2225.82,"endTime":2232.48,"body":"shared goal of value, and how"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2232.48,"endTime":2236.86,"body":"might we navigate it? So when we"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2232.48,"endTime":2236.86,"body":"are when someone is facilitating"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2236.92,"endTime":2242.22,"body":"a working agreement creation for"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2236.92,"endTime":2242.22,"body":"a scrum team or recreation, you"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2242.22,"endTime":2246.6,"body":"can frame the conversation by"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2242.22,"endTime":2246.6,"body":"asking these questions. And the"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2246.6,"endTime":2249.6,"body":"last thing is, I love there's a"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2246.6,"endTime":2249.6,"body":"there's a part where Elaine"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2249.6,"endTime":2252.78,"body":"talks about the yes and which"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2249.6,"endTime":2252.78,"body":"used to be an exercise in our"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2252.9,"endTime":2257.82,"body":"PSM class. If I can say both"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2252.9,"endTime":2257.82,"body":"things, I want the sprint to be"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2257.82,"endTime":2263.9,"body":"successful. And I'm sensing some"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2257.82,"endTime":2263.9,"body":"risks. So it's not a black or"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2263.9,"endTime":2269.6,"body":"white, it's not a Boolean. We"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2263.9,"endTime":2269.6,"body":"are able to express multiple"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2269.6,"endTime":2274.1,"body":"values, acknowledge the tension,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2269.6,"endTime":2274.1,"body":"and express it in such a way"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2274.1,"endTime":2276.92,"body":"that it can create a path"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2274.1,"endTime":2276.92,"body":"forward to navigate it, as"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2276.92,"endTime":2280.42,"body":"opposed to shutting some people"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2276.92,"endTime":2280.42,"body":"down. So there are so many great"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2280.42,"endTime":2284.5,"body":"tips in Elaine's book. And I"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2280.42,"endTime":2284.5,"body":"think my closing suggestion"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2284.5,"endTime":2288.16,"body":"would be, listen to the audio"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2284.5,"endTime":2288.16,"body":"book and do what I'm going to do"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2288.16,"endTime":2290.98,"body":"next, which is buy the physical"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2288.16,"endTime":2290.98,"body":"book so I can underline,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2290.98,"endTime":2294.7,"body":"underline, underline, but that"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2290.98,"endTime":2294.7,"body":"those are my thoughts for those"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2294.7,"endTime":2298.06,"body":"of us, those of our listeners"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2294.7,"endTime":2298.06,"body":"who are trying to figure out,"},{"speaker":"Ravi Verma","startTime":2298.12,"endTime":2299.08,"body":"what do I do next?"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2299.8,"endTime":2302.16,"body":"Thank you. I'm"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2299.8,"endTime":2302.16,"body":"going to ask you, after we"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2302.16,"endTime":2305.22,"body":"finish the podcast, why you feel"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2302.16,"endTime":2305.22,"body":"someone needs to listen to it"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2305.22,"endTime":2309.24,"body":"first before they read it"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2305.22,"endTime":2309.24,"body":"physically, like I did, but I"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2309.24,"endTime":2310.68,"body":"appreciate"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2309.24,"endTime":2310.68,"body":"and we can be different"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2310.68,"endTime":2314.34,"body":"processors. Oh, yes, right. So"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2310.68,"endTime":2314.34,"body":"some people are not audio book"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2314.34,"endTime":2317.7,"body":"people. I will admit I am not an"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2314.34,"endTime":2317.7,"body":"audio book person. I have a"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2317.7,"endTime":2320.78,"body":"young child. It is too noisy. I"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2317.7,"endTime":2320.78,"body":"have a really hard time"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2321.08,"endTime":2323.9,"body":"listening to things, because I"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2321.08,"endTime":2323.9,"body":"just want peace and quiet. But"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2323.9,"endTime":2327.02,"body":"give me a book. I mean, this is"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2323.9,"endTime":2327.02,"body":"why the book is an e book,"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2327.02,"endTime":2328.7,"body":"hardback, large print,"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2329.12,"endTime":2332.0,"body":"audio, so it's"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2329.12,"endTime":2332.0,"body":"available in so many different"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2332.0,"endTime":2334.64,"body":"ways. Thank you for offering it"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2332.0,"endTime":2334.64,"body":"that out there. Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2334.64,"endTime":2337.76,"body":"being here, both of you. I"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2334.64,"endTime":2337.76,"body":"really enjoyed it. I hope some"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2337.76,"endTime":2342.46,"body":"people try, something, and if"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2337.76,"endTime":2342.46,"body":"they think that they're not"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2342.46,"endTime":2344.68,"body":"silenced, then maybe they'll"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2342.46,"endTime":2344.68,"body":"think about who they're"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2344.68,"endTime":2347.68,"body":"silencing. All right. So thank"},{"speaker":"Patricia Kong","startTime":2344.68,"endTime":2347.68,"body":"you very much."},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2348.16,"endTime":2349.96,"body":"Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Elaine Lin Hering","startTime":2348.16,"endTime":2349.96,"body":"having us. Thank you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2360.0,"endTime":2360.3,"body":"I think."}]}