PM 059: Ireland's Thin Places: Between Two Worlds with Karen Frances McCarthy

#059 – The fairy forts & underground caves dotted across Ireland are known as Thin Places – the places where two worlds meet, where spirits can walk freely among the living and the living can enter the spirit world.  Spiritual Medium, best-selling author and Tutor, Karen Frances McCarthy, joins me to discuss the sacred places of Ireland and the fascinating Celtic Mythology that still surrounds them.

My name is Ann Théato, and the mission of the Psychic Matters Podcast, is to teach you proven techniques for spiritual and psychic development from the comfort of your own home. I investigate the teachings of experts across the globe, to bring you their wisdom, their advice and their spiritual wealth.

DEAF FRIENDLY: If you'd like to get the links & show notes, including a complete transcription, head to www.anntheato.com

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Ann  

We're here today in the Psychic Matters studio. It's St. Patrick's Day, Happy St. Patrick's Day to everyone who's listening. I'm so excited because I was contacted during the week by Karen Francis McCarthy. And she said, I've got this incredible idea for a St. Patrick's Day podcast episode, do you think you might have time to put it together? And of course, I said, absolutely, yes, please. She's here, She's in the studio. She's phoning in all the way from New York City. And she's here to tell us all about Ireland's thin places. Karen Francis McCarthy, welcome back to Psychic Matters.

Karen  

Thank you. And it's always great to be here. And I'm really thrilled that we are having this, it's one of my favourite subjects near and dear to my heart. So I'm delighted that we're squeezing it in for St. Patrick's Day.

Ann  

I know also that you're talking to us from your New York apartment, which is old and ancient, you told me and it's got an ancient heating system. So I know this might be a slight hiss in the background, so forgive us for that listeners. We're doing the best that we can. And Karen has got these beautiful kittens. She's got two kittens, and they may be making some noise throughout but we welcome them.

Karen  

Thank you, rescue kitten,  I just rescued them. So they're just delighted, I think to be have a little home to run around in now.

Ann  

That's so sweet. How old are they?

Karen  

One is four months and one is seven months.

Ann  

Ah, the little things.  What are their names Karen?

Karen  

Tara and Tua. 

Ann

Ah, perfect. Irish names for St. Patrick's Day.  Karen tell us all about the Thin Places of Ireland.

Karen

Yep. Yeah, the thin places in Ireland. I mean, there are some places all over the world. But in Ireland, we have thin places everywhere. I've often said. you know, you can't sort of go a mile without tripping over one. But basically the thin places are very ancient places, where it is said the veil between the worlds is thin. Now some of these places have become very famous. So like Newgrange, for instance, which is you know, 5000 year old structure in County Meath. In the Boyne Valley, there are three large structures that these, Newgrange is one that is now a UNESCO World Heritage Site. But it was built by, its pre Celtic It was built by the ancient occupants of Ireland. And what it is, is it's this massive chamber that is dark all year round, and lights up the inner chamber, light flows through the little box over the entrance door, only on the winter solstice, and lights up just around the Winter Solstice and it lights up this inner chamber. And, and then after the solstice is over, it retracts and then it goes into darkness for the whole rest of the year. So it's an amazing feat of engineering as well, that these ancient people were able to move all of these massive, you want to see those massive rocks, but all those swirls that we've come to associate with Celtic art, they're all carved in to these rocks. 5000 years old it's just phenomenal. And the fact that they were able to align the structure with the rising dawn on the solstice that long ago. I mean, this is 1000 years older than Stonehenge. 

Ann

Extraordinary and those stones are they as big as Stonehenge?

Karen  

They're not as big because it's a mound. So it's not the sort of Dolmen structure that Stonehenge has but the entrance stone, these stones aren't even found in this area. So they've somehow managed to transport on logs or boats or somehow, these massive, massive boulders that are there. I mean, anybody who Googles it will see,  well actually, we had one for the podcast, that was me standing at the entrance to Newgrange in front of that boulder. Yeah, so that had been sort of incorporated into Celtic mythology and later years afterwards. And so the King of the Tuath(a) Dé Danann, and Tuath(a) Dé Danann being the ancient gods of Ireland, the sort of supernatural race, all powerful race, the Dagda, which was the King of the Tuath(a) Dé Danann, makes reference to Newgrange, because when Dermot, who was his beloved, I think it was his grandson or nephew, or godson, was killed in battle, he said he was going to bring his body to Newgrange to put in what he called an Arial Life in him, so he could talk to him. So, so if the implication is, is that you could bring the dead body of Dermot into Newgrange and then he would be able to communicate with him. So therefore, it becomes the thin place, or ..

Ann  

Is it a holy place very, very sacred?

Karen  

It was, it was it's assumed that it was originally a burial mound because there are chambers in it. And of course, Somebody has stolen all of the artefacts, long since stolen all the artefacts that were in those chambers, but it was considered a burial mound and so but all of this in places have that spiritual and sacred sense to them. But this is ..

Ann  

Sorry Karen, to interrupt you what was the purpose then of it filling with light in the Summer Solstice or the winter solstice, summer, winter?

Karen  

Well, we can't know for sure because obviously they are pre, there was no writing back then whatever to share with us, but it's assumed that the idea is, is that it is the promise of light on the darkest day of the year, the promise of renewal on the darkest day of the year. 

Ann  

Wow, beautiful.

Karen  

Beautiful. So there are two other very, very large mounds in the Boyne Valley as well Nouth and Douth, Douth is kind of my sort of favourite one, in that it's closed to the public. Newgrange has been restored, so it's, it gets something like 200,000 visitors a year. But Douth is  sort of down a narrow little country road in a field. And apparently the Royal Irish Society back in 100 years ago decided to excavate it and did a terrible, botched it. And so it's not safe, so they can't open it. So, what I have found with Douth is that, when you find it, you almost need to know the locals to get there.  There's a big Visitor Centre for Newgrange, Douth is sort of the poor cousin down the road.  When you get there, because there's no traffic, there's no people, there's no, it hasn't been disturbed hardly.  When you step into Douth, and you sort of look through the, they've gated off the entrance but when you peer into the tunnel, you can kind of, I really, you can feel the spirits of Ireland, because it's so undisturbed, beautiful, love it. So these, we have to kind of climb over a wall to get into it and all the rest of it, you know, but it's so undisturbed that even though it's sort of been, sort of semi and badly excavated, that the power, you can feel the power of that place of that thin place there you know.

Ann  

Amazing, amazing. And so the thin place is the place where two worlds meet. This is what you mean by the thin, the thinness. 

Karen  

Yeah, it's the place where the veil, they say the veil between worlds is very thin, which is why it's easier. And so, for example, Owengate out in Roscommon, is considered the origins of Halloween. It is supposedly the gates of hell. Now it actually has a very, very rich mythological history. It was much later that Christian monks decided it was the gates of hell, but, but it was in a whole big, very sophisticated sort of town structure called Rathcroghan. And what's left of it now is this sort of basically this hole in the ground, but it's a cave, it's a sub terrain, cave. And when you go into it, there is no sensory perception, there is something about this cave, where there's no sense of sound, or smell, or just nothing, it's just sort of, it's almost like this dead space you go into.  So you can understand why myths sort of arose, and folklore arose around it. But it is said that when,  particularly at Halloween, that sort of the old gods of Ireland, like the  Mor-Rioghain and whatnot will come out of this, and all sorts of, the Sluagh and the Moirav and all of these strange creatures can come and steal your children, steal your soul, and all these kinds of things. And they emerge from this cave, that Halloween in particular. And it's considered a thin place because the other world is able to come into this world. And then in turn, we can go into the cave into the other world. So there's all sorts of great folklore, folkloric stories, of course, and superstitions around these plays, but they're essentially incredibly powerful places. And they're sort of all over Ireland, like Loughcry, there's an awful lot on Loughcry. But there's also, and this is sort of an anecdotal story. You know, there are these dolmens all over the countryside, the old rocks, the sheet rock on the top, and then the like, in what's it called the pi, you know, they look like pi, that sort of thing, the mathematical thing, and so I remember one time being out in the west of Ireland and somebody saying to me, oh, there's a, there's a fairy mound nearby. Now the fairy mounds are always thin places right, because the fairy mounds are the domain of the fairies. The fairies are not cute fairy winged creatures. The fairies have become the Tuath(a) Dé Danann, the fairies or The Shee, as they are   known in Ireland, The Shee.  So the Tuath(a) Dé Danann with your arrival of Christianity, to reconcile, I mean this is a hotly debated in academic circles. But this is one of the arguments, is that to reconcile the arrival of Christianity and Christian gods with the ancient gods of Ireland, the Tuath(a) Dé Danann, which were the ancient gods,  the people of the goddess Danu, they kind of gradually became shrunk in size to become The Shee, who occupied these fairy mounds. And then a lot of folklore arose out of that. And so those gods still exist as The Shee around Ireland, right, and they're taken, you don't mess with them, I have to be honest, you know. So, you've probably heard of the Banshee, for example, the woman of The Shee, that's what it means. And so there is a there is a supernatural element to this folklore into these beings. And so they occupy what are called fairy mounds. So, the fairy mound is also a gateway between worlds, so all these fairy mounds are the thin places are these gateways as well. And so, I grew up in Dublin, and there's a factory, the factory was built and there's a fairy mound in the middle of it because you would never knock them down. You know, you'd have to build around them. Back in the 90s, as late as the 90s in Ireland, there was a fairy mound in the middle of where they were planning to put a motorway over in Clare, I think, and there was petitions.  You can't knock down them, because all sorts of woes would befall you if you disturbed the fairy mounds, right. So, the motorway was eventually rerouted, would you believe, around the fairy mound, you know, because you really don't want to mess with them at all, you know.

Ann  

Amazing, that is so amazing. So, the Irish people do they communicate with a fae? Do they communicate with these fairies? Do they see them?

Karen  

Well, the thing about the fairies are, you kind of grow up with it in your culture. I, some people say they've seen fairies. I can't say I've ever seen a fairy. I've certainly felt the energy though. And I'll tell you about that in a moment. But there are you know, for example, when I was a kid, there was this idea that you could hear the Banshee. Now the banshee would wail right, she wails at night. And she combs her hair with a golden comb. And if you hear the Banshee wailing, you never want to look at her, because if she flings, she'll fling her comb at you and kill you. And so I woke up one time, I must have been about seven, and I woke up and I heard the wailing of the Banshee. And I was terrified, oh my God, the Banshee right outside the window, outside the house. And I went into my into my father and I said, oh my God, Dad, there is a banshee outside, you know. So my dad got up and he came into my room and he went to pull back the curtain to look out and I was pleading with him, please, please don't look out the window at the Banshee. I was terrified. The banshee's going to kill my father, you know, and he looks out the window, he don't see anything. And he goes back to bed, whatever. But it was years later before I learned that the wailing was cats. But this is a how folklore arises, right?.

Ann  

Yes, this is it, exactly. And that terror and that, and it spreads throughout people and throughout out cultural...

Karen  

Yeah, there's something in our nature that loves to create these scary stories for ourselves. You know, it's always been there. I mean, we still do it in horror, Stephen King, you know, but, but there is something inherent in the human nature that we just seem to love to scare each other. Have your scary stories for each other? You know?

Ann  

Yeah. Talk to us then about the energy that you say you felt the energy, so that's very interesting. What what did it feel like? Where were you?  What happened?

Karen  

So, you know, the energy I have felt at Douth very, very powerfully, you can feel it there. It's very, very still, it's ineffable, it's just, you really need to be there to experience it. But one way, I was, I was over in the west at one point for a week or so one time and some local guy said to me, you know, there's a fairy mound, up in farmer, somebody's field. Now you walk into these fields in Ireland, where there's a fairy mound and the field, and the fields are all ploughed around the mound, because the fair, you know, because you, because it wouldn't do for a farmer to be disturbing them, right, any more than the motorway or the factory. And so, but this person who was, this local guy said, shall we go up? So I said, yeah, let's go up check it out, you know. So, now you're always told as a kid, you never go into a fairy mound, ever go in, to try to get into a, because William Butler Yeats wrote The Stolen Child about how the fairies would come and steal children. That's what this poem The Stolen Child was about. So you were told as children never to go into these places. Of course, again, I learned many years later from, why, but on this day, we decided we would go and we would try to find out what's actually in a fairy mound. Just a bit stupid. But anyway, so we get up to the top of this hill and discover there must have been about 20 metres of thicket and bramble and thorns around it, you know. And so it was thick, just this, this thing. And so we started pushing our way through and it was so thick, we were tearing all our clothes and cutting ourselves up and everything. And we finally pushed our way into the centre of this supposed fairy mound that was thick with brambles. And when we got into the middle of it, there was a little small Dolmen covered in lichen and stuff right in the middle of it. And so, obviously over the years over the centuries, because this Dolmen existed, people left it because it was considered to be a thin place of the fairy folk, right. The thin place where the fairy folk could could travel between this world on their own Tír na nÓg, there were, there were being Tír na nÓg, the land of the youth. And so obviously over the centuries, it was never touched so the brambles were, just grew up around it and so nobody would go into it. So here we are these two idiots in the middle of it, and we get to this Dolmen and this guy says to me, so there's supposed to be energy from, from this, from this. So we threw some pennies in, which you have to do.  So anybody listening who wants to go traipsing around any of these places, make sure you bring an offering to appease the fairies, please The Shee, so they don't come and beset you with woes. So we threw some pennies in under this Dolmen and then we took turns standing on it to see if we could feel the energy, you know. So we're sort of standing there. It's like, yeah, you can kind of feel something. And so anyway, we gave up on eventually. And we fought our way out of the thing. We're all in pieces. I mean, we're torn to pieces by the time we, which you can understand why they scared children, right? And we got back in the car. And this was years ago. And we had those old brick phones. Remember, those old big brick phones? So my phone had been on 1% or something. The battery was all but dead going into it. And when we came out, and I got into the car it was at 20%. So the phone had charged on the Dolmen.

Ann  

Wow.

Karen  

Isn't that hilarious?

Ann  

Wow, that's amazing. 

Karen  

Crazy. 

Ann  

Oh, my goodness, it sounds like you're going, trying to make your way to Sleeping Beauty's castle with all thorns, trying to get in.

Karen  

It was ridiculous. But it was a really interesting experience because it's, that was something tangible, we could say, Oh, Holy God, look, it really did charge up the phone, you know, there really was some energy there, you know.  Which sort of Tesla's been trying to accomplish, was trying to, spent the last years of his life trying to do that, you know? Yeah. So there's these sorts of things and you know, you go to any of these places, and we've talked before about the Beehive Huts that were in Star Wars, remember, Luke Skywalker lived in one on Skellig Michael there, down in Kerry.  Now the beehive huts were built by monks, so this is long, long after the Tua, long after the, the Gods of Ireland, long after The Shee. This is the, this is the Christian age in Ireland, but you go to those beehive huts, and you can feel there's a power there as well. And part of that I do believe is because from the decades and centuries of prayer and devotion, that the monks pour into these places, can create a thin place now, it's different from the thin place, in Owengate in a way that's associated with all sorts of evils of hell will come out and befall you on Halloween, but this is a very sacred space, it's got this beautiful energy that has created this thin place, this sort of place where there's this very palpable sense of being connected to something greater. And I feel it's because of the prayer and the devotion that has been poured into that place over the years. I mean, you find this a lot, in Iona, you find it in many, many monasteries, convents, those sort of silence and devotion have created this sort of thin place the sense of heightened connection to the source or to the one which is which is beautiful feeling, you know, and they also in Ireland have emerged as healing well, so you know there is Bridgid’s Healing Well, the most well-known one is in Kildare, where the St Bridgid’s well, where people will come and they'll post a little photographs of their loved ones or offerings, your gifts, and sit to receive, these are usually sort of near water. So, like the one the one in Kildare is a little sort of stream in it, but they're kind of dotted around the country, and you can actually go and that again, is a thin place and you can sit there, it was in that thin place where the where the boundaries between this world and the next are thin, to receive healing.  And so the Bridgid’s well, is a, Bridgid was, as an ancient god, she was a member of the Tua and the ancient goddesses. And then of course, with the arrival of Christianity, she became St. Bridgid. But it's essentially the same person. Yeah, that happens the world over. And so, but the Bridgid’s well, are also thin, the wells are thin places. And they're also again, you know, they're not portals between worlds in as in, you can kind of go run into the next world, but there are certainly places where the boundaries between worlds are very thin, and you can feel that power when you sit with them.

Ann  

That's amazing. And so, all of these different places, all of these thin places, are they all burial places from, from many aeons ago? Or was there another purpose for them?

Karen  

No, they're not a burial place at all. I mean, it's considered that Newgrange was, was a form of, was some sort of burial place, mostly because of the artefacts and stuff that were left around that you sort of see in the, the, in Egypt, you know, the way there was always been this way of leaving, so that's been assumed in Newgrange but Owengate was a cave of some very intense sensory deprivation, which must have been a very bizarre experience for early folk who wouldn't have understood the science of why that happens. And so out of that grows the myth that this place there is no sensory perception possible in this place, because it's a gateway, because it's a thin place, you know, the streams, the water I think in many cultures we associate water with healing, so I do feel that's why Bridgid's wells, those thin places have arose out of this sort of healing intention, the healing need, and again, I feel with, with like places like the beehive huts, you know, in places like the monasteries and different places, I know there's lots of these all over Scotland as well, although I'm not as well-versed in Scottish thin places, you know, they come from just this sort of sense of the sacred. So, there's quite a, many different ways of and functions that these have. But you know, the real, the ones that are emerging from our mythologies are, of course relate to The Shee. The fairy mounds and they’re always don't let The Shee get you. But you know, The Shee also you know these days will leave you a penny, leave a penny for your tooth sort of thing, you know, they've just kind of evolved into that. But the thing about it is, you don't, within the thin places, you don't have to die to, sense or communicate or interact with the other world. The other worlds or the other side at all, you know, so they're the story of Tir Na Nog, Dermot went off to Tir Na Nog  and the God Lou was the God of the light, and he would come out of the sky and he was this great light. And if you went off with Lou, then you would feel like one night, there's lots of stories in Irish mythology about this one night had passed. But then when, when you came back, like Cu Colm's mother came back, sort of went, had a night with Lou, when she came back the next day, you know, sort of 100 years have passed, this sort of thing would happen. Because the, Tir Na Nog, or the land that The Shee came from, was really outside time, you know. So, it's just really interesting the way all of this information becomes digested and assimilated, and then myth, and folklore arises around it to make it all very interesting for us.  It's all great fun a lot of it.

Ann  

It's fantastic. And on the artwork, you've supplied that beautiful photograph of you standing outside one of these places, and there's a very big rock there. And you mentioned earlier, the engraved swirls that are all over it. Do you think those, what are those? Is that just art? Is that a symbol for something?

Karen  

No, I'd say it's a symbol because there are other types of symbols inside Newgrange, inside in Loughry  there, you know, I've got all these photographs from being inside, there's all of these symbols. You know, it's kind of like hieroglyphs in a way. It's, you know, it's communicating. So, we don't really know what they mean, it is communicating something. But I mean, to me, the swirl is beautiful, because there's got such a flow and it has sort of got the sense of eternity to it. You know, when you follow this swirls all around you can follow them, I find there's something very, very peaceful about it. It's also sort of evocative both to me, of sort of water and of just sort of the movement of energy. So, I know there's lots, there's been some fantastic, if anybody's interested in Newgrange, there was an awful lot of work that's been done on Newgrange. There's one article that I wrote many years ago on it, on my website, if you want to go into the media, you'll see the article and Newgrange. But there are plenty of books out there if anybody's interested. And some of them get really, really into the mathematics and the architecture of it as well. So, I would say to check that out, if you're interested in learning more about it.

Ann  

And we can put in the show notes for this episode, we can put some links that people can go and do some research and find out, now that they know these places exist. And you were saying, Karen, before we started talking, you were saying that you might be able to explain to the listeners how they can create their own thin place.

Karen  

Yeah, I'm a firm believer that, you know, to take, to following on from like the beehive huts from the monks from the monasteries, and that, that we can create that sacred space for ourselves, within our own home or within you know, any designated space, basically, you know, you can create, they often say the power is greater in the corner. And so, you can create the space where it's, where you go each day to pray, or to meditate or to do healing, or to do your devotional practices. And you could if you want to sort of decorate that with your own sort of symbols or fabrics or candles, or incense or whatnot, so the minute you sit in this space, it evokes a sense of the sacred.  And so from sitting in this place yourself for your own meditation or devotion, or prayer or healing, over time, because you are evoking the energy and you are sitting in the energy of the spirit, you in turn imbue this place with this power.  And so it’s the same idea as the monasteries and the centuries of prayer that you can see, I mean, even the Buddhists do this, they will sit on their same cushion, same place and over time again, you know, you just, if you walk into a church even you just kind of can  feel a sense of the sacred because people have gathered to, for devotion, right? 

I do feel that you can create, even if it's within a corner of your house or a particular tree or somewhere that just is, feels right for you, feels comfortable for you. You can really kind of create the environment that will, that will yield a thin place there. Now you can do that by say, picking the same corner where they say the power can be stronger within a corner because it's focused, adding sort of fabrics or cushions or candles or incense or symbols or any of these sorts of things, so that when you sit in this space, you immediately yourself feel a sense of the sacred. And so that will help you really to attune to the energy of the unseen worlds, you know, and to start to bring your own energy to bear on that place, but also, through your devotion, you're inviting the energy of the one   of the source of God, into that place as well. And so that over time, this place in itself will become a thin place, where as soon as you sit down into it, you will feel the presence of God.

Ann  

Oh, that sounds so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. That's really wonderful. And Karen, is there still, or are there still places in Ireland that you haven't yet seen, that you would love to go to in these beautiful, thin places? Or have you seen all that you need to see?

Karen

No hundreds still to see, they're everywhere, you know, I mean, I would love just, it would be fantastic just to go wandering about in sort of a random zigzag pattern all over Ireland. The thing about it is, is you know, I spend a lot of time in New York, and you know, this, if, you know, in most cultures there would be sort of a T shirt stand and it will be on Google and you'll be able to Mapquest your way to it, who knows what I mean? These places, a lot of these places, you sort of need to know the locals, the locals know where they are. So, you can't just sort of go Google Map your way around Ireland to find these places, you know, a lot of them you will kind of, and that's part of the mystery, I feel and the magic of these places. And that, that you have to just sort of wander and happen upon them. And I feel the exploration of it, to me, is part of the magic.

Ann  

I think that's lovely. And I also think the less footfall, the less energy that's been bought by many, many visitors, the more sacred that space still is.

Karen  

It definitely feels that way. And as I was saying, the difference I feel when I go into Newgrange versus going into Douth, because nobody bothers really with Douth, it's so undisturbed, it feels so powerful. And that's what I love about and that's the thing about Owengate, I mean, it's a hole in the field, because these places are largely undisturbed. That's why, I mean, they're everywhere. You know, I mean, they're, anywhere there's, there's a bunch of them, on the North side of Dublin, the middle of the city. So, you know, but, but, but the locals will know where they are. And, and as you say, the less disturbance there has been, the more you feel the voice of the ancestors.

Ann  

That is so beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that with us, especially today of all days. It's just absolutely fascinating.

Karen  

Good, I'm glad, yeah, it's one of my favourite, favourite subjects, I have to say. 

Ann  

So, Karen, are you doing any more talks?  Have you got any classes coming up on Celtic myths or Celtic mythology that maybe people could come along to?

Karen

Yeah, I have one I'm really excited. This is the first time I'm going to be teaching it, I'm teaching a course on Celtic Myth, Magic and Mythology, I'm going to be teaching it at the Montclair psychic school. And it's in the eastern time zones in New Jersey that starts on the fourth of May, goes on for six weeks. So, I'm really looking forward to that. And yeah, and I'm working on some other courses on that, it's still the whole subject just really fascinates me. And it's a wonderful way for me to be able to sort of incorporate my own mediumship practice, my own mediumship teaching, and bring it into the very ancient ways from Ireland, which, which I've been wanting to do for a long time. So, so I'm really excited about teaching, about teaching that course. And hopefully, anybody else who's interested in that type of thing will come along, we'll be working with all sorts of great ways in the old traditions. And we'll also be working with ways to contemporize that, to make it all useful.  Things like divination, and healing and trance and prayer and devotion, all of these sorts of things we'll be working with, in ways that you can take the ancient traditions and bring them and incorporate them into your life today.

Ann  

That sounds absolutely brilliant. So where do people find out about that? Where do they go?

Karen  

Well, you can go to my website, which is http://www.karenfrancesmedium.com. And you'll be able to see the whole course there as well and, and then that'll forward you on to booking with Montclair. So yeah, http://www.karenfrancesmedium.com. So hopefully, you'll love that. And also, I've done quite a lot of talks on this too, that are that are on YouTube, if anyone wants to go to my YouTube channel. We've done a few talks on Newgrange. On, on Bridgid, and Owengate, so you can find those old, much longer, you know, on those, if anyone's interested in listening to those for a little bit, a little bit more.

Ann  

So, what is your YouTube channel called Karen?

Karen  

It is just called Karen Francis Medium, so just search for Karen Francis, there's also a link to it on my website as well, so.

Ann  

Fantastic. Well definitely go over there everybody that's listening, because those talks are just fascinating.  Your course that you've just mentioned there, Karen, that sounds absolutely fantastic. What about people for this side of the Atlantic? Have you got any plans for teaching, the same sort of topic? 

Karen  

Yeah, yeah, I'm hoping that starting on 26th of September, possibly, for six Mondays in a row for the six-week course, to be able to teach that on a British /Irish time zone friendly time, so probably a Monday evening. So that's the goal at the moment. So, I'm really hoping we can, we can do that. So, we will be able to teach Celtic Myth, Magic and Mysticism for six weeks there, starting 26th of September is the goal. And I'll be incorporating, as I said, the same thing incorporating a lot of the ancient ways, a lot of those ancient tools and techniques, you know, of divination, of healing, of mysticism of trance, and being able to contemporize them, so that there are useful also and things that you can use today in our contemporary world. So, if anybody is interested in joining then, later in the year for really October, you could just drop us an email, we'll put you on a, we'll put you on a waitlist and let you know when we have the date solidified. So, you could just email me, karenfrancesmedium@gmail.com That's Frances with an E - karenfrancesmedium@gmail.com

Ann  

Please do that, folks. Because then Karen will be able to contact you, t he minute she's got her dates ironed out, because I know that you're doing a PhD at the moment, so I know you are an incredibly busy lady. So, once you get your diary and your own schedule sorted, then you'll be able to let everybody know.  So, if you are interested, now's your chance, email Karen and let her know.

Karen  

Brilliant. Thank you. Yeah, looking forward, really looking forward to it's going to be great fun.

Ann  

So I just want to say thank you so much, Karen for coming in. And I want to wish you and all our listeners a very Happy St. Patrick's Day.

Karen  

To you too, Ann, Beannachtaí na Féile Pádraig - Happy St. Patrick's Day.

Ann

Karen, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing all that with us. I just want to wish you and all our listeners an incredibly happy St. Patrick's Day,

Well, I hope you enjoyed that episode.  As mentioned, there are show notes for this episode which contain a full transcript plus all the links and URL’s mentioned, and to pick that up, please go to my website, anntheato.com. 

I’m actually travelling to Ireland myself in April, as I am teaching a beautiful two-day seminar in Dublin called The Extraordinary Medium on Saturday 9th and Sunday 10th April, where I have the honour of teaching alongside fabulous tutor and spiritual medium Susan Hughes.  We will be exploring the altered states of consciousness, discovering how you can elevate your mediumship from ordinary to extraordinary – so please do come along and join Susan and myself – we will be teaching at The Maldron Hotel, which is in Newlands Cross, Clondalkin, Dublin 22.  If you would like to join Susan and myself, please do email Susan for details and she is at diademsangellight@gmail.com .

For now, I say thank you very much for listening, have a wonderful couple of weeks and I will be back on 24thMarch with a very special podcast episode for you. Thursday 24th March 2022 is an incredibly poignant day for me, I’ve taken everything out of my diary and cleared a day for myself as I really feel it needs to be celebrated in some way – certainly it’s an occasion to be marked with as much positivity as I possibly can muster.  I will explain why it is so poignant for me next time, but for now, please know, that I’m creating this episode in honour of my incredible brother Paul, who passed away last year, and it’s an episode I am creating with my very special guest, Matt Hopwood, Matt will be talking about how the very special work he does, is building compassion and understanding amongst individuals, across communities and nations.  It’s an episode on love. There may be tears.  but Matt will allow you to learn more about the thing that makes each of our lives unique – our experience and understanding of love.

Until then, my name is Ann Théato and thank and you for listening to Psychic Matters.