PM 062: Psychic Generations with Sandie Byrne

#062 My guest this week, is Psychic Medium Sandie Byrne.  Sandy comes from generation upon generation upon generation of readers.  Her family, her grandmother, her great grandmother, all of them were readers before her and she grew up with this natural ability and this acceptance within her family, that her innate gifts were to be cherished and to be celebrated. In this episode we discuss what it's like growing up in a family where your gifts are instantly accepted. 

My name is Ann Théato, and the mission of the Psychic Matters Podcast, is to teach you proven techniques for spiritual and psychic development from the comfort of your own home. I investigate the teachings of experts across the globe, to bring you their wisdom, their advice and their spiritual wealth.

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CREDITS: Reach by Christopher Lloyd Clarke. Licensed by Enlightened Audio.

Transcript

Ann  

Hello, this is Ann Théato of the Psychic Matters podcast, welcome to episode number 62. I have just returned from a trip to Ireland where I was visiting my mother who's 89. It was really truly lovely to see her. And I was also teaching in Dublin invited over by spiritual medium, Susan Hughes. And we delivered a beautiful weekend workshop called The Extraordinary Medium in Dublin.  Do keep an eye on Susan Hughes' website and her Facebook page, because we will be offering further workshops in Dublin together because we had such a great time. So, if you are an Irish listener, and you are living in Ireland, and you'd love to come along to one of our workshops, we will be announcing those shortly. And of course, if you live in England or Scotland or the Isle of Man, you're very, very welcome to come over to Dublin and join us when those are announced and I think we're going to do one in August. And then we're going to offer another programme in the spring, so watch this space, as they say. If you go to my website, anntheato.com, you can sign up for my newsletter, which comes out twice a month, basically just telling you when the next podcast is released to remind you to listen to it and who my guest is. But on the bottom of those emails that I send out twice a month, I always list my current courses. So, if you're interested in studying with me, joining my Development Circle, joining my Scrying & Ancient Divination Circle, or any of the other courses that I'm offering in Ireland, Scotland, and England and online, then do sign up for my newsletter, and then you won't miss out, you'll be able to know what I'm up to. So that's anntheato.com. And now I want to introduce you to my guest this week, Psychic Medium Sandie Byrne. Sandy comes from generation upon generation upon generation of readers, her family, her grandmother, her great grandmother, all of them were readers before her. And she grew up with this natural ability and this acceptance within her family, that her innate gifts were to be cherished and to be celebrated. She's with us in the studio today, to let us know what it's like growing up in a family where your gifts are instantly accepted. I'm absolutely delighted to welcome my guest today. She's a psychic medium, and she comes from generation upon generation of readers, Sandie Byrne, welcome to Psychic Matters.

Sandie  

Thank you. It's great to be here. And thank you for the invite.

Ann  

It's so lovely to meet you, Sandy. And you live very close to my mum, my mum lives in Ireland. And I've told my listeners that I'm over here visiting her at the moment, so it's beautiful. We're hoping to meet up later in the week. So that could be quite exciting, COVID allowing, let's talk about your ancestry, Sandie, because I find that really, really fascinating, that you come from this generation of women, possibly men, let us know about that, who have read and read and read over the centuries over the centuries. And for many of us, we have been stopped in our tracks we've been told we're not allowed to read, it's, it's wrong, it's it's, you know, all of all the rest of it. So, I'm really interested to talk to you about being accepted from the moment you were born.

Sandie  

Sure. Well, I as you say, I come from Ireland and I'm from Tipperary, which for people who aren't familiar with Ireland, I call it the belly button of Ireland. So, if you see Ireland like a teddy bear, Tipperary is the belly button of Ireland and my family are from Tipperary, going back generations. And yes, as you say, many, many generations of readers. And you know, people will know that historically, Ireland was a very Christian and mainly Catholic country. So, where I'm from in Thurles, this is where all the priests used to be trained. So, as I was growing up, and I went to convent school for 13 years, every morning, we would walk past the cathedral and right across the road was the college for the priests. So, you would see hundreds of student priests processing across the road to go to Mass early in the morning. So, this wasn't an environment where you talked openly about seeing dead people, okay? And I always say to people that I really would have preferred to be schizophrenic and I'm not dissing anybody who who may be schizophrenic. But, you know, our, the religious upbringing and the religion we were taught in school would have made me think that I was schizophrenic, more than seeing people who had passed. So, the fact that I had my grandmother, who was a psychic was so great. So, my grandmother on my mother's side, she was Mary O'Brien when she was married but she was Mary Keating from a village called Dundrum in Tipperary, or Katyn as we seen in in Tipperary, it's spelled Keating, but we say Katyn, and her mother was also a reader. And her mother before her was a reader. So, the last three generations, now I know before that, they were also readers, but I am, obviously I don't have any memory of them. And my mother didn't know her great grandmother, she was passed before my mother would remember. But she was also a reader. So, from my mother, I know a lot about, say, my great grandmother, my great grandparents. And you talk about, I have a funny story, if I can share it with you, about my great grandfather, great grandfather on my grandfather's side of the family, always my mother's family, my great grandfather and his father his grandfather is buried at the Rock of Cashel, which you might have heard. It's a very famous castle in Ireland. He died, he was gassed in the war in World War One and he died, I think, was 42 years of age. And he was brought home from France very sick, but he only made it as far as Dublin before he passed away. So, he's buried in the Rock of Cashel. And that's where my grandfather came from was Cashel. And so, his father, he used to see spirits a lot, okay, and he came from a small little village just outside Cashel. And he was at the time the person in the village that used to prepare bodies for burial. So back in those days, they didn't necessarily have Undertaker's like we do now. And this was done by somebody in the village. So, he was the man who used to prepare the bodies. So, one night, he was at home, and they lived in a cottage basically, in the middle of a field. So, you know, it was that kind of an environment. And he couldn't sleep at night, and he was up pacing around the house. And he made himself a cup of tea, and then he looked out of the bedroom window. And he could see, he saw the Banshee leaving his neighbour’s house. So, he knew that his neighbour hadn't felt well, but there was no expectation that this man was going to pass away. So, for those who who haven't heard, I'm not sure maybe you've discussed it in the past. So, the Banshee would be a spirit, and she's supposed to visit people, to let them know that death is coming. So, she follows anybody with an O or a Mac in their name. So, my granddad's family, we're all O’Brien’s. So, he saw the Banshee leaving this house. And he got himself ready and strapped his bag to the back of his bicycle. He didn't have a car, and he headed on towards the neighbour’s house. Now we'll see at the neighbour’s house. He was, you know, a couple of miles away across the fields. And on the way he met the priest, who was who was driving his car down the road, and the priest said to him Oh, I was just coming to see you. He said, because so and so has just passed, he says, oh, I know. Yeah. He said, I'm on my way. And he said, how did you know? So, he explained to the priest that he saw the Banshee, so this was outrageous to the to the priest, but he was well known for being able, I know it sounds terrible, but knowing in advance that people are going to pass. So, he was always there to help with the passing at the moment of passing. So, he was very well known in the area back in the day.

Ann  

Gosh, it's amazing, great story.

Sandie  

And so yes, so I suppose my own journey starting from when I don't remember a time where I didn't see spirit, okay. And I think, you know, if you talk to a lot of children when they're young, they would also have similar stories of seeing people or things happening. I mean, for example, I don't believe in imaginary friends, I believe it's our spirit guides or spirit relatives around us. So, because there was this understanding within our family, that, you know, spirit were always around us. We never, nobody ever said to me, you're imagining it, or you can't talk about those things, or anything. It was always very welcome. And it was brought into the conversation. So, for example, even though I lost my grandmother, when I was seven, I do have a lot of memories of her because she was so helpful to me at that point of my life. So, if I was at my grandmother's house, or whatever, and you know, sometimes the door would open, you know, sometimes the door would push up and randomly, my grandmother would always say, Oh, come in and sit down and join us and she would literally put an extra cup on the table and fill it with tea. You know, so she would welcome the spirits into the house always. And she had a great way of seeing them as well. So, as I say, she originally came from a village, she moved here after she got married to Thurles, but she came from a village called Dundrum. And her mother was a very, very well known, palm reader and medium. And there is a story for when my grandmother was very young. I think she was about 13 or 14 and the neighbour was ill. So, it very Irish thing, you'd make a pot of stew or a casserole or some food, and you'd bring it to the house, you know, to help out to make sure everybody was fed when the lady of the house was sick. So, my grandmother had made a big pot of stew. And she headed off with my great grandmother beg your pardon, apparently had made a big pot of stew, and herself and my grandmother headed on down to the neighbour’s house, and on the way, they met the neighbour on the street, you know, on the road, and they had a chat with her. And my great grandmother said to my grandmother, really go home and get me my bag. So, she was also someone that would have helped out, you know, to lay somebody out, whatever. And my grandmother ran home and then came back and met the two and the women were just saying goodbye. And my, my grandmother said to her mother, she said, why am I getting your bag? She said, sure that lady is obviously better. And she said, no, she just stopped to say goodbye. She's on her way to heaven. So literally, the two women had encountered the spirit on the road, but the lady had passed. She was on her way to heaven. And she just stopped to say, goodbye. And another time it happened at the same lady, she she had a friend who was in hospital, and she'd been friends with this lady for many, many years since they were young children. And she wished she had walked to Clonmel to visit this lady in hospital it was a long walk at the time, but nobody had cars. And she spent a couple of hours visiting with this lady in hospital. And then she walked home. But as she arrived home in the village, she met this lady so she was walking along the road and there was a stone wall, you know, between her in the field. And inside the stone wall, her friend was walking towards her. And my mother can remember exactly, you know, her grandmother telling her about the story. And she said, she said I knew the minute I saw her, she said, and I said to her, what are you doing here? And she said, I just wanted to come and tell you what a good friend, you've been to me all these years. She said, we've been through so much together. And she said, You're the only person that's come to see me in hospital, she said, You're the only one that took the time. And she gave her a big hug. And she said, I'll never forget you. And so, my grandmother continued walking into the village, and she went straight to the family house. And she arrived just before the priest because the nobody had telephones back in those days in the villages. So, the priest would get the phone call from the hospital to say this person passed away. So, my grandmother arrived just before the priest, who had come to tell the family that their loved one had passed. So, she met her. Yeah, so this was a common occurrence for my great grandmother. So, she would see spirit a lot. So, a lot of people, as I say she didn't have a phone or anything in the house. So, people used to come and queue up outside her little cottage in the village from like six o'clock in the morning, waiting to get a reading from her, like, she was very well known. And my mother, my mother can remember going out with her grandmother, like doing the shopping or whatever. Back in the days, we used to go on holidays to your grandmother's house, you know, and she'd go shopping with her grandmother and she said he'd be walking like to the village or whatever. And people would be putting their palms, their hands out in front of her going what's happening here, what's, you know, what's gonna happen with this, just to get readings off her on the street. So, she was quite well known around for her readings as well. So, I feel myself that I was very, very lucky to have had this background. Although I think I was two when my great grandmother passed away. I don't have any living memories of her. And then I was seven when my own nanny passed away my own grandmother. Now, she was teaching me to read tea leaves at the time that she passed. So, I got a good background from her. And unfortunately, she was only 56 when she passed. So she was very young when she passed. So I really felt that I missed out a lot with her. However, I do know that she helps me a lot, but she's somebody that never comes through in readings. This year actually marks 40 years since she passed. She died in 1982. And she's never come through in a reading. Never. And this lady, people find it hard. And I'm not going to tell you what you should or you shouldn't believe. But a lot of people find it hard to marry their religious beliefs with their spiritual beliefs. And my grandmother was the most religious person that you would ever meet. She had such a faith. She had a picture of the pope in every room of the house. She had statues of Our Lady all over the place. She had more rosary beads than I care to remember, but she had an ultimate belief in life after death. Really and truly, but when she was alive, she only read tea leaves for close friends and family because she had 10 children, she didn't have the time to give to the readings. So, my great grandmother, she had less children. But she also took in two children. During the war, she took in two children that were sent over from London during the war. Bear in mind, this is a family that didn't have anything. So she took in these two little boys. And they stayed with her and she raised them. I don't know the full story; I think their parents may have been killed during the war. In the first war, obviously, because the two boys went back and both fought in the Second World War. When joined when they both joined the Air Force One was a pilot, and one was a Tail Gunner. If anybody knows that the Air Force and what that means, so, and luckily, they both survived the war, thank God. So, there's a little bit of a synopsis of my history, and my family. So there is a lot going on. My grandfather's, as I say, his father used to help out with laying out bodies. But his mother was also very spiritual. And she was very in touch with the fairies. And she had an incident when she first married my great grandfather, she moved to where he lived, and they were farmers. And she got caught overnight in a fairy fort, she got trapped in a fairy fort overnight. So it was harvest time, and they were cutting the hay. And so literally, my great granddad and his brothers whenever they would cut the hay, and then she went out with a waggon in the evening to collect all the bits around the edge of the fields and the bits of leftover, and she stayed in there after dusk. So, as it got dark, the what happens in a fairy fort is that the fairies don't like you to be in there on their space, especially after dark. So, what they do is they move the gate. So every time she went to the gate, it wasn't where she thought it was. And it moved the gate again. So she ended up sleeping in this waggon overnight until the following morning when she actually could get out of the fairy fort.

Ann  

That's such a brilliant story. 

Sandie  

Yeah. So there's lots of them around Ireland, the fairy forts. I know, you've talked about that in detail before.

Ann  

We have, but for those that maybe haven't listened to those other episodes, tell us a little bit about the fairy fort.

Sandie  

So, fairies, I suppose wouldn't be my general area of knowledge. But basically, they're there's little patches, if you like of land, okay, generally surrounded by trees. So, this was a small kind of field that she was in, okay. There's one actually at the back of my house, okay. And it's like a huge, huge field and the farmer sews crops there all the time. And right in the central field, it's like a circle of trees, okay. And it's, it's overgrown and there's bushes and everything in it. But nobody will disturb us, because if you disturb the fairies there, it's supposed to bring bad luck. So for example, where I live, there's a lot of hunting that goes on. Okay, so you see people on a Sunday on the horses, hunting foxes and stuff, okay. And that's something that I've ever taken part in, but it does happen around, and some of the farmers let them on on their land, and some don't. But there was a day last summer where they actually ended up in the field at the back of our house, it doesn't belong to us. But this field where the fairy fort is, if you can imagine it's a very lush field, but right in the centre, is one undisturbed patch, because people would call it superstition, I would, personally would not disturb it. Okay. I mean, there's motorways and everything that are routed around these, okay, that's the feeling of the bad luck that they bring. So the hunt chased this fox into the fairy fort, okay, the dogs followed the fox in. But the horses would not go in. The horses all refused to go into this, like little circle of trees, only the dogs went in there. And I think, you know, I don't know, what I, I'm not inside the brain of a dog. But I think the dogs were just running and just kept running without thinking. But the horses literally refused. They just stopped dead in the field and wouldn't even go within three metres of this fairy fort. So there's definitely something there because I think animals are very, very perceptive. If you want to know if there's something going on in your house, bring a cat or a dog or some animal into the house or into the room, you will know immediately if there's something going on there.

Ann  

Yeah, that's a really good point. And it's interesting, you talk about this fairy fort. And you said, the fairies don't like you to be there after dark. And it's very interesting. Once upon a time back in the day, I had an allotment in London. It's just a little patch of land that I used to grow fruit and veg on for fun. And in the winter months, when the nights began to draw in, I would come to the time where it was getting dusk, and there's just this overpowering feeling would come over me like I have to leave now I have to go. Immediately - I cannot be here. And I couldn't describe it. And until you just said that just now, I, I could never really understand what that was. But I really do feel it was a time, it's that dusk time, that's something very important needs to be done.

Sandie  

This is their time. Yeah. Yeah, it's their time to come out. And you know that they own the the field or the area or whatever. And they can come out and you know, do whatever. Now there's lots of books, there's actually a lady that lives not too far from me who's written a whole book about fairies, and the legends about fairies and all the rest of it. So, I mean, I really would have to defer, you know, the deeper meaning to those people, because it's not something that I've researched, or had a lot of experience with. But I know that you don't mess with a fairy fort, and you don't especially go near it after dark. But like that, because you're so spiritual, you get the feeling yourself, you know that you're not supposed to be there. But you can see them if you're driving around Ireland, you will see a lot of them, the roads are routed around them, you know, house plans are moved because of them. And they literally just sit in the middle of fields untouched. And people wonder why do they not plough that one area of land, you know, right in the middle of a field. And that's why, you know, because it is the fairy fort. Gives me the shivers. Honestly. Yeah. You know, can bring a lot of bad luck. 

Ann  

Yeah, it's amazing. It's absolutely fascinating. Let's go back. Can we go back a little bit over some of the things you've just said there? Because because all of this just fascinates me, I love it. I absolutely love it. I think you're so lucky to have this understanding in your family. You talked there about the Banshee visiting the neighbours and that you're, one of your members of your family, I can't remember whether it was your grandfather or Grandfather's father, great grandfather.

Sandie  

Yeah.

Ann  

Thank you. Yeah, your great grandfather, who saw this Spirit coming to visit the neighbours. And you said that they the Banshee follows people with an O or a Mac in their name. Do you know why that is specifically? Or does everybody else not get followed? Or what happens?

Sandie  

You know, I think that they do there is this understanding that anybody with an O or a Mac in their name, but everybody in Ireland has an O in their name. Historically, everybody's an O something, or a nee something, okay? Because it's the Irish name.  O means son of, and nee means daughter of. So everybody in Ireland would have had those names until we were, I suppose I don't know what you might call it, we became part of Britain. And we weren't allowed to speak Irish, we weren't allowed to use the O in the name. So for example, even though I'm Byrne, I'm only Byrne. I'm only Byrne by marriage. But you know, before my husband's grandfather, it was always O'Byrne. So, the O's were dropped by certain generations, because of, you know, it wasn't, it was very frowned upon to use it. And if you go back before, you know, 1921, we weren't allowed to use it. So technically, we're all O something here in Ireland, but for some reason, it said that they follow anybody with O or Mac in the name.  Why, I honestly would be lying if I if I gave a guess, because I really couldn't be sure, but they're the only people that seem to report having heard or seen the Banshee. So technically what the Banshee is, so she is a spirit and she's a woman, okay, she's a female. And she sits outside the house of the person who is going to pass. And she is said, to comb her hair, so she's got really long hair, and she combs her hair. And she wails. So you hear this wailing, wailing sound outside. So people just hear her, some people see her my great, my great grandfather would have seen her a lot, okay. And even with my own grandfather, his brother died very young. He had, I can't remember what you call, they used to call them blue children, something used to make, some heart condition, or some virus that they used to get at the time, used to turn their lips blue and that. So, he'd been in hospital for like three or four months. And then when he came home, he wanted some fresh air. So my grandfather, my great grandfather took him outside and sat him in at the side of the field wrapped in a blanket and taught him to stay there because he wasn't supposed to exert himself, but he was allowed to get a chair. So my grandfather, my great grandfather was going around and he was ploughing the field. And of course, being a 13-year-old boy, this boy said I want to do something. So, he tried to climb the tree while his father was at the other side field. And he had a heart attack and passed. Why and when, when he did this, so my grandfather lost a brother when he was very young. And so, you know, they had all heard, it was a couple of nights before but they'd all heard this. And you know, the first instinct when you hear this is that somebody older in your family is going to pass? Don't you, you don't think of the young people, and especially the fact that he just come home from hospital, they said he was going to be okay. And you automatically start to think of the older people. You know, it's just, it's just human nature. So it's not always easy to know exactly who is going to pass, you probably know that yourself from your experience. You know, I think, you know, everybody that's listening, I'm sure would have heard of Princess Diana of England. And I remember, I can't remember what was I, 22 or 23, when she died. And I had a dream. And about two nights before she passed, that there was a death. And that for some reason, you know, that Princes Harry and Prince William were told, and I could see a funeral. And I thought in my dream, that was Princess Diana. But when I was telling my husband, he's my husband now, but when I was telling him about it the following day, he said, oh, well, it has to be the Queen Mother, you know, because she was really old at the time. He said, sure Diana is only in her 30s, it's not going to be her. But lo and behold, a couple of days later, it was Diana. So it's very hard, you know, yourself, to read the signs and always know that this is exactly who it's going to be. But yeah, it's very. A lot of people report it, I suppose. I haven't really looked into it as to why exactly it's the O's. I really couldn't say.

Ann  

People would say, oh, yeah, but the Banshee, that, that calling is just foxes yowling outside. What do you say about that?

Sandie  

I mean, you know, if, I always say, you know, people are going to believe what you want to believe I'm not here to convince anybody of anything, I can only tell them of our experiences. And it happened to me here a few years ago in my house, and I was up half the night, even though technically, I don't have O in my name and this actually is a good example. And I was up half the night and I could hear howling. And I actually put it on Facebook, you know, I'm awake, there's howling outside, I'm afraid it might be the Banshee. You know, even you and I will be scared to look out the window and see if we can see the Banshee. And everybody's like, Oh, it's just a fox. It's just a fox or whatever. But my father-in-law passed away a couple of days later, very suddenly, totally unexpected. He was only a couple of weeks after his 65th birthday. And he passed away at home in his apartment in London, have a heart attack. So, you know, you can ignore it. But it doesn't mean that you want to stop what's going to happen. happening?

Ann  

Well, I find it very interesting. You see, because I thought once upon a time, I was going bonkers. I came out of a parents evening with my son who was probably about 12-13 at the time. And it was in northwest of London, a little part called Harrow. So, we came out of the school and I was walking back to my car. And all I can describe it as was this huge, shaggy, black dog. It was so big, that sort of a sized dog couldn't exist in this physical world. And it crossed like a shadow, slinking across the road right in front of my eyes. And I grabbed my son, I said, oh my gosh, can you see that dog? He couldn't see it. And, and I just had this overwhelming feeling that it was to do with my father and my father was going to pass away. And sure enough, that is what came to pass. And I've seen that dog a second time in my house, in like, not in my house in London but I came out of the front door, and I walked past somebody else's house. And I saw the black dog again, that huge, I don't know if you call it a Grim or some big black shadowy dog Grim thing. And it came out of this house. Actually, he was walking into the house. He walked into the house. And sure enough, the lady there passed away. So I find it really fascinating. You talk about the Banshee I hear foxes yowling all the time outside in London, especially. but I really feel that there is something that we can see between worlds that informs us. So, I yeah, I think it's fascinating.

Sandie  

I have to agree with you. And you know, you're talking about that. It just reminded me if you don't mind if I share another incident. My uncle that I was very, very close to, my mother was a single mother and raised me my sister on her own. We were very, very close obviously to her family, and a lot of her younger brothers and sisters of course she was the fifth of ten children. So there were a lot of younger than her, so we were raised with younger ones, like brothers and sisters. So my uncle Kevin, we were very close to and when I was 14, my grandfather passed away my mother's father and he had come to live with us because he was a widower, and he had cancer. So he passed away. And we had the funeral and everything. And my uncle Kevin had been left to the home house and I spent a few weeks out there with him when he was getting the house ready to move into, you know, because it hadn't been lived in a little while because my granddad was living with us. So I was out there with him. So, one night, it was a believe, Wednesday night. It was a small cottage and it was about it's about four or five miles from town. And my uncle jumped in his van and he ran into town to well, he drove into town to get, you know, some milk and bread and whatever, and we were getting ready to have dinner. So when he came back in, he ran it in the door and he said, everybody come come and look at this. He said, There's a bird outside, it's like an albatross. So, and literally across the road from the cottage, there was a deep wood, we always played in it when we were young. And the trees were right upside the road. And there was a canopy of trees literally over the road. And there was this massive bird.  Now we didn't see it. When we all came back out. It was gone. But he said, he said, I've never seen a bird like this. He said it was like an albatross. He said the size of this bird, he said, and it was so big. It was actually weighing the branch of the tree right down to the road. But he said I took a picture of it because his fiancée at the time, always had a camera on hand and she was brilliant for taking photographs. He said, I grabbed the camera, he said I hopped out and I took a picture of it. So, he left, those days, it was 1989, in those days, you had to leave a film into the chemist for 48 hours to get your photos back. We didn't have digital cameras back then. So, he left the film into the chemist. And he was away he was racing, he used to race motorbikes. And he, on the Saturday morning, he lived actually in Limerick, so he was driving from Limerick to where he was racing up outside Mullingar in County West Meath. And his fiancée told us that morning she said every single Magpie that was in the country, must have landed on the road in front of them. She said they were they were literally flying at the van. They were literally on the road daring us to drive over them. She said I've never in my whole life, seen so many birds. And unfortunately, he had a fatal crash that afternoon. He was 31 years old. And he passed away that afternoon. So, when she collected the photos from the chemist area the following week, the only picture that didn't come out on that roll of film was the one he took of the birds. It didn't come out. Every other photo came out perfect, except the one he took the bird.

Sandie  

That gives me shivers all over my body.

Sandie  

Yeah. And as I say, the birds she said, they will literally just flying at the van, they were flying at the front of the van, the back of the van, you know the windscreen, they were just all over the place. And they said that never seen anything like it. And he had had a dream as well. I don't forget his my uncle and his mother and my grandmother was his mother. So, you know, he came from the same lineage as I had. And that Friday night before they left for the racing, he didn't sleep a wink. He told her that this was a fit man. He was 31 years old. He only drank socially. He didn't smoke. He went to the gym quite often. He was into his weightlifting. He always watched what he ate. And he could not sleep. And he said, I had this dream last night and he said that something was chasing me. He said, and no matter how fast I ran, I couldn't get away from this person. And he ran a lot. He used to jog and he used to run a lot as well. Very intense fitness because of the racing. And he said, I just get this funny feeling that something's coming for me. Now he wrote it down to stress because the following Monday, he was supposed to sign a huge contract, which, he had his own business, it would have catapulted his business into the stratosphere. And he kind of thought that maybe this was just the stress of you know, you know, the extra work and whatever he was taking on the responsibility if you like, but no, we really believe that it was all signs that his time here was coming to an end. 

Ann  

Yeah, it's incredible. Absolutely incredible. I love these stories.

Sandie  

You don't think that someone's going to go at 31, do you? 

Ann  

No, absolutely not, not at all. And I was gonna say to you until we've talked further, I was gonna ask you, do you think that in this modern day, it's more difficult for us to be as in tune as the generations before, because we're so overwhelmed with our notifications on our phones and things like that. And yet, I know 1,000,000% that I saw that Grim, that Black Dog twice, completely out of the blue when I was just going about my business, it just suddenly came out of nowhere. And those two people passed away afterwards. I know that for an absolute fact. And so maybe we are, still close. I don't know, what are your thoughts on it?

Sandie  

I agree 120% We are because, you know, we have television, we have computers, we have calculators, we don't even have to use as much of our brain as we used to do the little things anymore. Okay. So, my grandmother was a huge believer. I mean, they didn't have obviously television, when you know, the kids were very small. They only got television at some stage in the 60s, I believe in the house. But even when we were small, she was always very, you know, aware that to turn off the television in the evening time, and sit down as I have a family and talk and I can remember, as I was sitting down around the stove, in my grandmother's house, just exchanging stories about things that we'd experienced, whatever, some of them would be spiritual, some of them wouldn't. And in our house in town, we were very close to our next-door neighbour’s beautiful family and the mother there, I was very, very close to. And again, this lady had originally, she trained to be a nun, she spent years in a convent, you know, as a student nun and just before she took her final vows, she got really, really sick. So, she was actually in the Isle of Man, as a nun and, the Mother Superior sent her home to recuperate before she took her final vows. She came home, met the man she eventually married and the rest is history. But she was also really, really spiritual. So even when we were in town, and not at my grandparents’ house, we used to have what we just call story nights where we just sit down and chat, we'd have no radio one, we'd have no television or nothing. And of course, back in those days, when I was a teenager, we didn't have the internet, you know. And so, we just used to talk. And she herself had so many stories about, you know, about experiences that she had had. So, one that always stuck out with me, because it just really stuck with me when I was a child was the fact that her brother had passed. So, when she went to see her dad before they buried her brother with him, as she was leaving the graveyard, of course she, went to make sure, you know, you go and you say, Daddy, please make sure you look after him. You know, I'm so worried about him. I hope he's okay, I hope you've met him, all this kind of stuff. And as she walked out of the graveyard, she heard her dad's footsteps behind her. And she knew it was him because he had a limp. And he slightly dragged one of his legs. So she knew the walk. You know, and I remember her telling us that story. And, you know, I think it's important that we share these experiences with other people. Because otherwise people tend to write things off as their imagination as coincidences, you know, they start to think like me, thinking that I was schizophrenic when I was younger, you know, because especially with children, nobody wants to be different. So therefore, if you're not talking about what you're experiencing, and believe me more people around, you are experiencing that too. But nobody's talking about it. Because my cousin, and her her dad was my mother's brother. I remember as teenagers, we were always together, we were just stuck together. Either she slept at my house, or I slept at her house. And she said to me, one night, Sandy, I need to talk to you. And I said, why, what's wrong? And she said, I hear people. She said, I hear people talking at me all the time. And I just said, oh, thank God for that. Because I can see that. You know,

Ann  

That's, that's great. 

Sandie  

We just don't open up enough. And we think that people are going to think that we're mad, okay. But I think you have to take that leap of faith. Because there's an Irish saying, I don't know do you use it over there. But we always say, anybody who knows you knows you better. And anyone who doesn't you don't care about. Okay, so the ones that know you they know you're not mad, they know what's coming from experience, and likely they'll, they'll relate their own experiences. And this chat time that not enough people have in my opinion, okay, I'm sure there are people out there that do. But I have always made it a point, I'm not a perfect parent, don't get me wrong. But I've always made a point that we all sit down to dinner together, no phones, no telly, nothing. And we talk about everything that's going on during the day and what we've experienced or anything, and I have two boys and I don't know do you find with your son that he has spiritual experience? Because I have loads to share about my boys.

Ann  

Oh, share away? Yes, I do. And I'm, I was the same as well with my children. Again, it was the way I was brought up. We sit around the tea table, the dinner table, whatever we're eating at the end of the day and we discuss things, the phones are banned. Nobody is able to, we have to talk to each other. And yeah, it was lovely. We used to, it's  real sharing time. I think it's really important for families as well. But all kinds of things come out when you're having these just very informal chats together yeah, it's brilliant. So yeah, my, my both my children are very spiritual.  Tell, tell me about yours?

Sandie  

Well, both of them are spiritual but I have a story that is my favourite about my youngest boy, Charlie. Now we have an older boy, there's eight years between my two boys. So we have Donica who's my oldest son. He's 21 currently so he was our honeymoon baby. He was born two weeks before our first wedding anniversary. And then it took us each years before we had Charlie. So we had four miscarriages between the two boys. And then I had two miscarriages after I had Charlie. So we're so lucky to have them. They're both here, and they're both healthy. But when Charlie was about three, so we moved into this house where we're currently living when Donica was two. Okay, so there was not even a thought of having Charlie at that point. So when Charlie was at the age, about two and a half, three, you know, where they're totting around, and they're starting to put sentences together and all of this. So he was in the conservatory off the kitchen. And I was kind of just you know, faffing about and next thing I looked out and there he wasn't, he was knocking on the wall. There's a very low wall, obviously below the window. And he was knocking on this wall and put his ear up against the wall. And I was like, What are you doing? And he said, I'm looking for brothers Dodi okay. So when he couldn't say the name Donica so he used call him brother and a Dodi was my eldest son's name for his soother because he couldn't say soother or dummy. He used to call it Dodi when he was young, Charlie never took a dummy ever. So he didn't know what a Dodi was. So I was like, I was looking at him with this  really confused look on my face. And I said, what do you mean? And he said, Brother dropped his dodi in here. And then it dawned on me.  When the house was being built, we came out one evening to see the progress on the house. And my son dropped his dummy in the cavity of the wall. Okay, so he was two years old, he dropped his dodi in the cavity of the wall, and we laughed, and we said, Leave it there. You will always be a part of the house. And subsequently, we forgot about it. So here we are, six ...  about nine years later, and my youngest son was knocking on the wall. And I literally sat down on the, on the couch in the conservatory, and I was like, wow, how does he know that? I'd completely forgotten. Next thing he ran and jumped at me, right? And you know, when they jump on top of you, and you nearly fall over, and he gave me this big hug. And I said, Wow, I said, I'm such a lucky mammy get hugs like this, what did I do to deserve it? And he said, he went like this. Kevin told me to give you that hug he said, and I totally forgot. And I was like, what? And I was like, who is Kevin I said, you know, is Kevin somebody at the creche  or whatever. And he, like leaned back and looked at me out of the corner of his eye. And he said, you know, Kevin that died off of the motorbike. He said to me, my uncle that died when I was just kind of 50. And he was only young. I hadn't spoken to about Kevin I told him about Kevin or anything.  Well there's pictures up around the house, but I never said oh, he died off motorbike, you know. And I looked at him. And I said, uh, when did Kevin tell you this? And he said, When I was in heaven, and I was choosing you to be my mammy. He told me that you were going to be the best mammy ever. And he said, and he said my brothers and sisters that didn't get to be born. He said, they told me that I picked a good mammy.

Ann  

Oh my goodness.

Sandie  

How would he know that I had had  miscarriages?

Ann  

Well he wouldn't.

Sandie  

No. And he taught me so he gave me a big hug and a kiss from Kevin. And then a few years later, in 2017, God rest my poor father-in-law that I had spoken about who passed away suddenly. So, my father in law, my husband was born and raised Irish parents in London. And I imported him here when he became an adult. I brought him back. I had worked in London for a few years, myself, and I brought him back to Ireland with me. So, my father-in-law, was divorced from my mother-in-law. And he had an apartment in London. So, one Monday morning, we were getting, well I say we were getting ready for school, we were getting up. It was about 25 past seven, and I heard this, you know when you've got a child, so Charlie must have been about, I don't know, nine. And you could hear this across the landing ...steps. And he burst into my bedroom. Now my husband goes to work every morning at half five, so he was long gone. And the alarm was due to off at half seven. And he burst open the door in my bedroom and he said, where's, where's granddad? He said to me, I said well he definitely aint in here wherever he is. I said, grandad's not here, he's in London. And he said, no, he's here. He said, and you didn't even tell me that granddad was here and he just came into my bedroom to say goodbye to me. And I said granddad's not here, I said, he's in London. He wasn't here. He said he was here. Next thing you know, I was having this argument with the youngest, the oldest came out of his bedroom, who was 17 at the time, typical teenager, just walking across the land and scratching himself, yawning. He came into the bedroom, and he said, I didn't know granddad was in Ireland. And I said, he's not. And he said, he is he said, he just came into my bedroom. And I said, He's not here. And he said, he is he said, Because he bent over and he kissed me. And he said, goodbye. And he said, I even felt, the zip off his coat on my face. So we used to make fun of my poor father-in-law, because he had this coat and it was like a fisherman's jacket, almost. It had all these zips on it. And he likes to keep his gases in one part and his phone in the other pocket, a hanky in the other pocket, you know, and we used to make fun of the picking of the zips. And he said, the zip of his jacket, he said, hit me in the face when he bent over to kiss me. And I could hear his walking stick. And he said, he just said goodbye and that he loves me. And I said, well, the two of you must have had the same dream. I said because granddad's not here. I said, Now, come on, chop, chop, let's get ready for school. So it was quick whizz around the house, get ready for school, breakfast, whatever. So I just dropped, I used to drop the youngest fella to school first. And then the eldest fella, so about twenty past eight or so I had dropped the younger fella, he'd literally just got into the gate of school when the phone rang. My father-in-law had passed a 10 past seven that morning. So, at 25 past seven, he was in our house saying goodbye. At the time, they were the only grandchildren that he had. He has another granddaughter now, but at the time, they were the only grandchildren that he had. 

Ann  

What a beautiful story. And what did your children say to you when you said, you know, he did actually pass away this morning.

Sandie  

They both just went, I left the younger fellow at school for the day, because there's no point in dragging him out of school and upsetting him. The oldest fella was there when I got the phone call. So he was upset. But he just said to me, he's like, I told you granddad came to say goodbye to me this morning.

Ann  

It was just beautiful that he came to say goodbye. And they had that from their grandfather. That is just extraordinary.

Sandie  

Yeah. So sad but nice at the same time, you know that he did come to say goodbye. I agree with you they'll always have that.

Ann  

So it's beautiful. So let's talk about you, Sandie, because you are a psychic medium and you're reading for people. Tell us a little bit about the, if somebody wanted to come to you for a reading what sort of what sort of things are you offering?

Sandie  

Okay, so I'm, I'm doing all my readings online. I'm also a trance, medium and trance healer. But I haven't been doing that for a while because with personal circumstances. My mother's been quite ill the last few years. She's battling cancer still. So I've kept all my business online. So at the moment, I'm just offering psychic and mediumship readings online. I say just and so I assume your listeners know the difference between the psychic and a medium reading. 

Ann  

Well, why don't you explain it as well, because some people may not. And this may be the very first episode they've ever listened to. So that would be very interesting. Thank you.

Sandie  

So in a simple way, a psychic is someone who reads the energy of the living. And a medium is someone who reads the energy of the dead. Okay. So a psychic is someone that would read you what's going on in life, what's coming up in the future, the medium, just, I say just in inverted commas, just talks to dead people. So that's just like having a conversation with your loved ones that are past getting their opinion on things, finding out what's going on for them who they're with, and gaining evidence of life after death, okay? Whereas if you want answers about what's going on for you, what's coming up, the best route to take, that's the psychic reading, okay? Because your, your loved ones and spirit can give you their opinion on something. But it doesn't mean that it's right or that it's gospel, you need to get the psychic reading if you're looking for advice on life. So in short, that's the difference between the two. So I offer both. So the psychic readings that I do, they're an in depth reading. So it's a three-year reading. It's a mixture of tarot cards and a Numerology forecast. So I would give people as well as an in-depth tarot card reading. I give people a three year and month by month forecast of what's coming up for them. Okay. And then with the mediumship reading, we just see and speak to whoever comes through, okay, I can't promise anybody I know everybody comes with expectations of this person or that person coming through. No medium can promise anybody in particular, it depends what the energy is like. You know yourself we get good results, but you can never promise anybody. You know, there's a lot of things going on. You know, if someone's depressed if they're under pressure, if they've just had a bereavement, there's lots of things that can affect the energy but, yeah, it's a good way to get closure from the mediumship. It really is a good way to get closure.

Ann  

Are you teaching as well. Sandie, sorry to interrupt you there.

Sandie  

No, you're absolutely fine. Yes, I, I've taught some courses, I've just finished a six week, beginners or introduction course, which covered a bit of psychic and mediumship. And I offer one to one mentorship as well. So all details, obviously will be on the website, if anybody's interested in that, or contact me for one-to-one coaching, which I do with a lot of people. Because, you know, everybody learns at different rates, and everybody has different experiences. So the one to one can be very tailored for people, and it can get them, you know, I suppose on their spiritual journey a lot quicker than sitting through a class with other people. So the one to one coaching is very, very popular at the moment. 

Ann  

Yeah, that's beautiful. And you've got a picture on your website of you holding up a trophy, which says Winner, Medium Of The Year, tell us about that.

Sandie  

Yes. So, I won a trophy last year, and I won it again this year. So, it's, it's prestige awards. So, they're a company that does, you know, small business owners like you or I. So, they recognise the efforts that we put out. And, you know, because there's lots of corporate events, and you know, I suppose awards for bigger companies that, that are on the international stage, whereas you and I hardly ever get recognised for anything. So, this company, they monitor, a lot of the smaller companies, but you generally get nominated by maybe a customer or something like this. So I've never heard of this company. So it just so happened that one of my customers nominated me for this award. And the then they look into to the business, what you're doing what you're putting out there, they get people to vote. So as it happened, I won this award last year. I won it again this year, I'm delighted to say. So they kept monitoring the business. And I started my own podcast, if you don't mind me saying so, during the lockdown for people, and we did regular lives, and we had people, you know, offering healing and self-help and all kinds of stuff. I had them live on my Facebook page during the pandemic to help people to get through this. You know, it really was an exceptional year, well, two years, I suppose. And a lot of people were in a lot of dark places. So I tried as much as I could to help people through this. So they rang me up and said, look, we never give this award two years running to anybody, because we'd like to recognise as many people but we wanted to recognise, you know, the effort that you've put out. So I got that award. And I won a second award as well, this year, an Irish Enterprise Award for 2022. So look, they don't mean anything, they don't mean that I'm any better a medium or psychic than anybody else. You know, they don't mean that I'm any more special than anybody else. But it just means that somebody's recognised something that I've done, and that they have, I suppose gelled with that in some way and appreciated the efforts. Okay, so I, even though I was delighted to receive them, because you already know that when you're working by yourself, you feel very isolated. And you wonder if you're making a difference at all, because that's all we're here for is to make a difference, and to spread the word of spirituality. So it doesn't make me any better than anybody else. I do want to point that out was okay. I don't necessarily think that I'm special just because I got an award. But it is nice to be recognised. And it's a confidence boost. Because I'm sure a lot of people that listen to you have been on a spiritual journey, maybe they've done some circles of development, whatever, you know, mediumship. And psychic work is all about confidence, confidence and trust. They're the two things, confidence in yourself and trust in your spirit guides. And if you've got those two things, then you're a good medium, in my opinion.

Ann  

I just want to say congratulations for those awards because I think they're amazing. And I think I'm so thrilled for you. I think it's brilliant to be recognised in that way. So congratulations. That's, that's massive. And I'm thrilled for you. And it's a pleasure. And secondly, we want to listen to good podcasts. We want to learn about things if and my listenership will want to listen to your podcast too. So, can you tell us what your podcast is called?

Sandie  

Yes. So, it's Life After Life with Sandie Byrne. And it's available on all the main ones Apple, Google, I broadcast from Podbean, but it's also, I have it embedded onto my website. So sandiebyrne.com and click the podcast and you'll get all the episodes there.

Ann  

Fantastic. And just before we finish Sandie, because you've given us a lot of your time, I won't keep you but we spoke about or you certainly spoke to me about how people read in different ways. I just wonder if we could finish by sort of speaking about that a little bit,

Sandie  

Yeah. 100% You know, I get a lot of phone calls, inquiries, emails, whatever, about how do I read, you know, do I use tarot cards? Do I use tea leaves people looking for palm readings, whatever? So, it just want to let people know that, you know, it doesn't matter how somebody is reading you, okay? So, for example, when I started reading years ago, I didn't use to use anything, but people liked to see something. So, I started using tarot cards. Okay. Now, I've never read a book on tarot cards. I've never done a course on tarot cards. I just bought a deck of tarot cards that I felt that I could connect with and started reading. So, my grandmother, as I said, she read tea leaves, okay. And she was teaching me to use God rest her, at the time she passed away. And her mother, my great grandmother, she used to read palms, and my great great grandmother, she used to read bones and stones. So, it's a really old way of reading and you know, Dolly Parton has a song about these old, is it These Old Bones, I think the song is called. So, each lady in my family has read a different, they've used a different modality to read, okay, but the readings are all the same. Okay, there's no difference in the way that we read. So it doesn't matter. I've been, I worked in Canada and there was a guy that used to travel around there. And he used to hold people's hair to connect with them, all people are doing is they're using something doesn't matter if it's a crystal ball, whatever. They're using something to connect with your energy. Okay. Now, I was interviewed on Canadian television, and I said this, and I got a lot of backlash from readers, but it's my opinion that whatever we're using to read, it's only a distraction. Okay, because when I used to see people at my home, I, I just had a few crystals on my desk. Okay. So, because everybody that kept comes in, they're like, Okay, well, I'm not going to give anything away with my body language or my face, they sit there and we stoic. So, when they come in, and they'd see some crystals or whatever, on the desktop, they go oh that's a pretty colour, what's that, and the minute something took their attention away, it left their energy wide open to be read. So no matter what people are doing, it's taking your attention, because people are there and they're looking at the tarot cards, or they are waiting to see a picture come up on the, on the crystal ball, where or they're looking at their hands to see the lines. And when their attention is taken away, bam! Their energy is wide open for the reader to read. So, you could say it's just a distraction. I did a psychic course some years ago. And we read each other through tissues. So the lady went round with a box of tissues, and we all took a tissue fresh out of the box. And we scrunched it up and held it in our hands. Okay. Then after a few minutes of explaining the exercise and everything, we passed it to the person on our left, and that person had to read us using this tissue. Okay. And we got the most accurate readings. Why? Because everybody was looking at the tissue wondering where's she getting that from? You know, and it left our energy wide open. So it doesn't matter if you're looking for a reading. I mean, unless you specifically have a preference, which I totally understand. Okay. Some people like in person readings, not online. Some people like tarot cards, like crystal balls, that's absolutely fine. But if you don't have a preference, and you're just looking for a good reading, you know, look at somebody's reviews rather than how they read because the readings should be the same. Does that make sense?

Ann  

Yeah, that's brilliant. And it's very well described. So thank you very much for that, Sandie. And it makes me think, you know, when I started off years ago, I was the Tarot person, I just adored Tarot. But what I found, and I am now teaching, ancient divination and scrying techniques so it is interesting, we were doing tea leaf readings, and we're reading stones and bones and things. Yeah, and it is exactly the same. But what I find is, when I'm working, I can pick up some fantastic information using these psychic tools. But equally, if I'm in a reading with somebody, I find them a little bit constrictive. And I'd rather not use anything at all and just sit with that person and tune into their energy. But I love your top tip here about getting them their energy field open. I love that. Were they are distracted a little bit? 100

Sandie  

One hundred percent, because what I say to people when I'm teaching, and I'm sure you say the same thing, if you're gonna get something psychically, it's gonna come straight head on to you. If you're getting something from spirit, it generally comes in from the sides. And you are gonna get, you know, the odd one that will be slightly different. But if you just think of that, then you can tell the difference between what you're getting from somebody psychically, and what you get from them mediumistically.  Because the one thing that I'm always, and this happened to me for the first time actually in the last few weeks, I had a lot going on. It was just like one of the busiest weeks I've had in a long time. By the time I got to Friday, I was exhausted. And I was reading this lady. And her mother came through, I thought, but then when I sat back, and I realised, and I said to myself, where's this energy coming from? And it was hitting me head on. So I knew I was getting this information psychically. And I said to her, I'm sorry, but I'm not reading you. And she said, you are, the information you have given me is exactly right. And I said, well I'm getting it from you not from your mother.  Because when she was sitting there, she was sitting there thinking, please, mam, come through. Please. Mam. I just need a message from you today. Please, Mam, please. You know, and she had this picture in front of her of her mother at her brother's wedding. Okay, I couldn't see the picture. But she had it on the desk in front of her. So as I was reading her, I said, okay, your mother's, your mother is here. She's only passed three years. And I can see her dressed in this blue dress with this certain pattern on and everything. And then I realised, okay, I'm actually getting this from her, not from her mother. And I was able to say to her, I'm getting this psychically. So it's so important that people understand what they're getting psychically, and what they're getting mediumstically, because they are two different energies, you know, so just that people are aware of that. And, you know, honesty, I think is always the best policy. Because I said to that lady, okay, well, I can refund you, I said, and she said, no, would you read me another day when you're not so tired? So I read her a few days later, her mother came through no problem at all. Okay. So I think honesty as well, in our profession, is the main, main thing.

Ann  

Yeah, I think that was great. Yeah. And, and wonderful that you've highlighted that. I think that's really brilliant.

Sandie  

It's very important.

Ann  

It is really important that we know that we're not putting words in spirits mouth, that's the key.

Sandie  

Yeah, we should be giving what we're getting. Although I was getting it. But I was able to recognise that I was getting it psychically. And not mediumistically, because, you know, we always look, when we're talking about spirit, we always look at it as a hierarchy and one being above another, we know logically that they live parallel to us, not above us. But it's an easy way for people to picture it. So if you picture that, above us is what we get.  The next level of energy wise is psychic, then you have to raise your energy even more to get to the mediumistic level. And just because I'm so tired, you know, I just done so many readings that week. I couldn't raise my energy enough. And you know, there's nothing wrong with admitting that because we're not perfect.

Ann  

Yeah, that's great. That's absolutely fantastic. So, Sandie, it's been wonderful talking to you. If people want to find you just once again, if you could let us know your website.

Sandie  

Sure. So, it's sandiebyrne.com. So, it's Sandie with an IE like Sandie Shaw. I was named after a UK singer called Sandy Shaw.  So, it's sandiebyrne.com.  And you'll find all the contact information there.

Ann  

Fantastic. Once again, Sandie, thank you so very much for joining us on Psychic Matters. 

Sandie  

Thanks for having me.

Ann  

 Pleasure. 

Ann  

Sandie Byrne there, everybody. I'm so delighted I'm able to introduce her to you all. Her website is Sandiebyrne.com. Go over there. Go get yourself a reading with her. She does all her readings online all around the world. An incredible woman from generation upon generation of readers, most definitely go and check her out. I'm afraid that's all I've got time for this week. Well, I've got plenty of time, actually, I'd love to chat to you all day, but one has to bring an episode to an end. So that's it for this week. I've got some brilliant guests lined up for you. Beautiful interviews all lined up. I just can't wait to meet all these fabulous people. I'm so lucky. I'm just so blessed to be able to meet these wonderful experts in their field and bring their work to you the listener. I'm just delighted I'm able to facilitate that for all of us. So, if you are enjoying this podcast, please do leave a written review.  Written reviews really help the podcast climb up the podcast charts and that means more people get to listen to the content, which is a win-win all round. Thank you so much for listening. I look forward to next week's episode already even though I haven't made it yet. And it's gonna take ages to get it together and I'm now behind because I've been visiting my mum in Ireland and she had no Wi Fi and everything is all like stacked up in terms of workload. But once I plough through it all, I look forward to bringing you further episodes. For now. My name is Ann Théato and thank you so very much for listening to Psychic Matters!