Go Bucket Yourself

From Scarcity to Abundance: Brandon Clark's Financial Metamorphosis

• Season 5 • Episode 79

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What if the life you've always dreamed of is just a few mindset shifts away? Join us on a fascinating exploration as we pick the brain of financial professional and coach, Brandon Clark. With over 15 years of experience, Brandon walks us through his inspiring journey towards financial independence and entrepreneurship. Drawing from his frugal upbringing and his own set of trials and errors, he brilliantly deciphers how to gain control over one's mindset, time, and money.

Did you ever stop to think about how your unconscious scripts and rules shape your reality? Brandon leads a candid discussion about the common mental roadblocks we often encounter on our path to success. From the scarcity of time and money to the inherited values that unknowingly influence our decisions – we examine it all. We also explore the power of self-reflection in identifying and overcoming these hidden barriers.

As the conversation unfurls, Brandon opens up about his experiences in creating an accounting firm and how shifting perspectives led him to the life he yearned for. The importance of action, no matter how intimidating, is a recurring theme throughout the discussion. So, gear up for an enlightening journey that underscores the significance of perseverance, self-awareness, and personal impact. Brace yourselves, as Brandon's story might just nudge you into taking the first step toward your dreams.

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Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Go Bucket Yourself podcast. Today we're joined by Brandon Clark. He is a coach who partners with people to gain control over their most precious resources their mindset, time and money. This allows his clients to pursue a life of their own design and to truly be free. Wow, that really speaks to us here.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

As a coach, he works with people to create a life filled with joy, purpose, passion, impact, connection and fun. With over 15 years experience as a financial professional, he's also a financial planner who helps his clients build the financial plan to underwrite their dream life. at Tolar Financial Group, he works in his own coaching practice, reexamine wealth and has owned and exited through acquisition his own accounting firm. Thank you so much for joining us today, brandon. We're excited to dig in.

Speaker 2:

Thanks, Deb. Really appreciate it. Great to be here with both of you, Chris and Deb.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, great to get to meet you. Deb said she met you at an economy. Was it this year, 23? Okay, cool Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that was a really great conference. I told Deb at the conference I was like I really like, i really like you guys podcast And it was so cool to meet in person just because, like, as I was starting to go into like the coaching portion, of my journey.

Speaker 2:

It was cool to hear people in the five space who are, you know, who are talking about this type of stuff that you guys tend to talk about. So I think, like more and more people are coming and, you know, in the five space, like moving in this direction, and I feel like you guys were some of the first people I saw out there doing it. Oh, thank you so much That was so affirming.

Speaker 1:

So of course I invited you on the podcast. No, i had some really good conversations with you at economy and I thought it would be such a good fit to have you on. So we are grateful that you had listened to the podcast and also equally as grateful that you'll be on today. So I thought we could sort of get things started with getting to know you a little bit better. I think we could clearly make some assumptions about how a CPA and financial advisor may have been led to five, but you know what they say about assumptions and from experience I know that, like, positive personal finance is less common than CPA, with CPAs and financial advisors, than you might expect. So I wonder how and what drew you to financial independence and entrepreneurship yourself?

Speaker 2:

Sure, that's a great question and great setup for the question as well. Yeah, i definitely am naturally a money nerd a bit. I feel like as I left college and like moved into the working world many years back, you know I was just I actually didn't like plan on doing anything like accounting related. I knew I wanted something maybe business related, but I naturally gravitated towards like I started reading personal finance columns. There was this particular lady named Michelle Singletary So people in the DC area might know who she is but she had a column called a color of money and I used to read it probably every couple days at work when it would come out. It was like one of the things I really looked forward to reading. And then I started gravitating more and more towards just I feel like back in like there, maybe like 2010s or something like that or maybe even before that, there's little drips and traps of different, you know, personal finance content and I always gravitated towards it. So anyway, it's, you know, kind of fast forward a bit.

Speaker 2:

You know, at that period where I got out of school, i also picked up the. I did economics and sociology as my two majors in school. I guess I graduated in 2004 wasn't the best economy, And so, you know, i just knew that getting out of school that I wanted to be able to write my own ticket and kind of have a life of freedom and security myself And I took my accounting class, you know, through that econ degree and just econ and accounting seemed like this really secure thing where I could build enough security, you know, potentially have a level of freedom by having my own practice. I remember I had an uncle who was an accountant and had his own practice And I remember him having like an office in his house and me being like, oh, that's really cool, that must be, that must be some level of freedom, and he also just was smart and you know things like that, and so it was just this like, oh, that's an option for me, but anyway, i'm pretty early on, was always focused on, you know, a level of freedom for myself, but also, you know, enjoying financial knowledge as well. That was another piece to my story, i guess.

Speaker 2:

Maybe a few other things that I'll kind of bring in to or just that.

Speaker 2:

You know I have really I have really frugal parents. I always had really good examples of money, you know, i guess, especially as you're on the path to find, the easier you can make it, the better in terms of not having to get over like some of those negative scripts about like earning money and what to do with money. So that that was definitely a key piece of kind of my five journey as well. But I guess, in terms of you know some of the maybe some of the mistakes that I've made on the five journey just to bring in a couple of those You know, because don't want to make it sound like it was all rose this per se Yeah, i definitely went to five from this space of you know, like wanting to achieve a certain like level of success and like being really hyper focused on like growing my wealth and like what that kind of meant about who I am as a person And a little bit of like some of the scarcity that can come along with what, along with that, were part of my journey as well.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, let me let me talk to that point real quick. Like you mentioned, that part of your money story is being raised around parents that were pretty frugal And I definitely had people in my family that that taught me those in those lessons as well, or the, the, the benefits, the values of frugality and all that. But I think each time we learn like some superpower, there's a kryptonite side or a shadow side of that. Have you experienced anything like that in your life or could you touch on if that frugality has always served you well, or has there been moments where that's maybe been a hindrance more than a benefit?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's also a really great question and kind of that shadow side to it. Yeah, definitely something in my own, you know, like my own life, where I don't think I would have like, as I've gotten to the point where I was getting closer and closer to buy and sort of starting to see this pattern of like, wow, i've actually achieved a pretty good level of success. But like, why does it feel like I'm still kind of like on this treadmill And I guess you know that's kind of like the hedonic treadmill? I didn't even necessarily like plan to make that sort of metaphor, but you know, it's definitely that sort of thing where, like you know, as my career progressed, i started to also get a little bit more curious about like, well, like, why am I still like? why am I being such a jerk to myself When, like you know, i've got a good level of wealth And you know I am pretty secure? But like, why do I like? why do I still feel like I can't sort of? you know, like like I need the money And I can't get off of that?

Speaker 2:

And then I started looking at some of my own families, kind of like how money is viewed like in my family. You know how, like my, you know, i guess, my mother, my grandparents, you know some of their views towards money, and there's there was always this kind of framing of and it was all a good thing, so to speak. Because you know, when I look at my grandparents, you know these were, like on my mom's side, they didn't have college educations But they were able to move to Washington DC area, which is, you know, pretty great place to be, and secure federal government jobs which gave them pensions and achieve a really good level of success for themselves, and so they kind of instilled that same like hardworking mindset and, you know, like taking care of your money, doing working hard And those kind of being like the big pillars. But I do feel like there wasn't as much of a focus, and partially it's because they didn't have like the luxury to maybe to just to think about like what else is there in life besides hard work, you know, and what are some of like like you know, what is it that you really would love to do in the world that you could then create?

Speaker 2:

you know, like not only just have work, basically have work that's like meaningful to you in addition to work that just provides money to you, and so I feel like that. That kind of key piece is something you know. When I think of sort of like the shadow side is, i don't even think I really focused as much on that And to me it was definitely one of those things where work was to provide for money And like that's what you do, is like you know a part of your life, that's what it means to have a good life, and so forth.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, i really want to dig into that with you because I know something we talked about discussing was this idea of scripts Right. So, specifically in your instance, it was like almost like work is life, you don't really think about what else you want outside of that. And so I wonder in a more general sense, like what are some of these common scripts? you probably hear a lot with your coaching clients or I'm sure you've unpacked a lot as you've come to your own place of consciousness of them, but basically, just like these stories we tell ourselves about our lives, possibly around work and money, that we aren't always conscious of and aware of that bringing consciousness to might be of benefit us, of benefit to us.

Speaker 2:

Sure, yeah, and so I did a recent HAMP-FI talk at Mid-Atlantic on this area and I guess I call them, you know, like they're commonly called money scripts. I guess, like Dr Bradclont's kind of like coined them and that's kind of a related thing. I use the term rules because I want it to be a little bit simpler, and so this idea of rules is just that like, when you think about it, we all have these things that we've like heard out there in the world, these kind of like generalities about like whatever topic you know it can be work, it can be money, and sort of like what we can expect, you know, around those topics, and they can start to like frame how we view, you know, any given thing. They're just like our default and so like the lens that we view the world through without us even really having to think about it. So, at any rate, some of those rules are, you know, i guess one particular one for me, and one that I see a lot, is just that you know work is hard, and so that's the one that I was kind of talking about earlier, which is this idea that you know you go to work and it's hard, and like that's what it is, and so, i guess you know, one of the things I like to focus on is this idea of you know that, like sure, that is the thing that exists And I definitely don't want to downplay it for that, for people, because that is people's reality.

Speaker 2:

But it's also important to be able to find, like alternatives to those rules that that exist out there, and I think one like, especially when I hear that you know, like that work is hard, one, one alternative that I helped to bring into awareness for clients and that's helped me as well, as this idea of, instead of work at hard, like what if work became, instead, we use the alternative that work is our vehicle for impact in the world, and so instead, that's that forces you to take this obstacle or to make work, this obstacle that you have to go through in order to find impact in your world, and that could be useful, and for me, that is one that I'm kind of like currently, you know, like living into as well.

Speaker 2:

You know, some other common ones are, you know, just time, you know scarcity of time, and, just like you know, i just you know, we all have heard people saying like, oh, i just, you know my sample so, so full. You know I can't find enough time to do x or y. You know, money scarcity, definitely probably a big one in our, in the five community, where it's just like Oh well, you know, i just need. You know, this promotion and this bonus is, you know, one more year, whatever it is, before I, you know, take action on you know, whatever it is.

Speaker 2:

So, I mean, there's millions of them out there. I think that's the thing about our brains, is it's actually a good thing and that we have to like, come up, you know, our brain just brings these pictures and we fully understand like the whole world of things And we don't have to, like, you know, research everything again. but then it also, you know, it can be a hindrance at times too.

Speaker 3:

And it's. It's funny too, like the what, how, how we pass those things on or how we take this thing that worked for us And then we relay that where I'm going with. That is like with your grandparents, you know they are. Your parents taught you frugality and maybe your grandparents taught you the success and hard work And while those were things that worked well for them, maybe they were the the biggest, you know, i don't want to say the biggest accomplishment, but like they were, that had a monumental impact to their life. So it feels like it is probably their greatest privilege and duty and obligation to pass that on to future generations.

Speaker 3:

But if that's like, if you're taking that one microcosm of life and instilling that into their identity, which instills into they're going to be happy when Brandon does this, this and this, which lines up well with that, then little Brandon's going to be like Oh well, hard work is good, being frugal is good, i am good, i'm going to do all those things, whereas then you know there's probably still some other colors to your life that might get overlooked if you just focus on work as hard, saving money as good and all of that kind of stuff. And so I think that's just the beauty of of this human experiences, like we can only accumulate and pass on so much in our lifetime, and then it's up to us, as this next generation, to take those gifts that we've been handed, take those negatives that maybe we don't want to pass on, and then pass those on to those future generations. So I just I feel grateful for the privilege, experience, the information age, to where we can now share our stories in such an easy format that your parents and grandparents definitely could not have, and then we can, you know, take that, those benefits and then pass those on. So thanks for, you know, sharing that, that piece And you know, i don't know if we want to dive into that more, but just that that piece because the hard work is good is something very much.

Speaker 3:

And I have caught myself recently not recently, i've caught myself throughout my existence as a father also basically modeling to my kids that kind of concept, to the point where I was like when I was a kid, if I could hear my parents coming down the hall, it was like I had to be busy cleaning up my room or working on my home worker, like something quote unquote productive, because hard work is good. I shouldn't just be laying here and enjoying myself And I do that often with my girls, where it's like I want to just let them relax.

Speaker 1:

But my default behavior is like Oh, you could have cleaned your room a little bit better, oh, you could have made breakfast, or you could have done this or you could have done that, and so yeah, Yeah, i definitely want to keep kind of getting into that, from maybe this idea of unconscious to those stories versus conscious to those stories, right, because I for a long time, um, identify with that right, saying I'm too busy or I don't have enough money or like that's not available to me, right, but I wasn't aware of those stories and I imagine in your coaching practice, brandon, you see a lot of people that may not be aware of those scripts or rules They're telling themselves, right.

Speaker 2:

And.

Speaker 1:

I wonder how you bring someone to consciousness, or what are common things that bring people awareness of these stories or scripts, or rules they're telling themselves so that they can, you know, go from there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question, um, and you know and I think I can sort of relate it back to some parts of what Chris was talking about too Um, because I do feel like parts of what he was kind of like distilling in there from like our conversations sort of so far, is is, um, you know, some pieces of like my own experience and that I also see in clients as well. Um, so some of the pieces where, um, in particular, like you know, my own mindsets and sort of uh, like just sort of seeing like my own, being able to see some of my own views towards like my grandparents, my parents and some of their behaviors, like, i definitely got to this point where, um, some sometimes things that they did would like rub me the wrong way or I'd be sort of like agitated at them for like these pieces of myself, um that I didn't like or that I was finding fall with, and it was one of those that was at the point where it was sort of, uh, you know it wasn't fully in my consciousness, um, but that anger was an annoyance, was a place for me to start to look as to like well, like, why am I so annoyed by this trait that they have, like why am I getting down on them for this thing rather than being able to appreciate, like the place that they've gotten me to, where I've got this? you know, i kind of like I have a pretty great life, i'm not. You know, I'm not going to complain at all And I definitely have it better than them. I don't think in the wildest dreams that my grandparents would think that they'd, you know, have a 40 year old millionaire grandson who, you know, have done all these things. So, yeah, at any rate, um, but to answer your question, deb, it's that it is really a thing of like talking, like coaching is a lot of talking And it's one of the like I feel like a lot of people, especially in the Levi community and, like you know, executive and things like that, at times can be so results oriented and so like, like want the quick answer, um, but a lot of and stuff also avoid, you know, like what's deep inside of them, so to speak.

Speaker 2:

But it really is to just like having these conversations, being like really candid and truthful with yourself and saying like exactly what comes to come, so like your mind, um, and then you know, being able to reflect that back to people. Um, that helps bring the awareness. So it's really different for different people, Um, you know, like when they're ready to get there or how it might look. But a lot of times it's one of those things. It's very hard when you're having a conversation and someone's reflecting back to you like what they're hearing to be. Like. That was what I said So like to not own it.

Speaker 2:

Um, and I guess that's one of the parts about coaching that's enjoyable to you. It's just happens. I think it's also the piece about having someone there to kind of like support you through those thoughts that are like, oh, i don't, like I don't really want to go here, like there's something behind there that just I don't want to touch.

Speaker 1:

But then also working with, like having someone there who's like supportive, that you trust feel makes it a little bit more comfortable to Yeah, I love that you mentioned using your agitation and anger as a place for curiosity and questioning, versus just staying stuck in that agitation and anger. Right, That's a really that's very clearly a coaching framework. But we can do that with ourselves, Right? So in my case, I just got so annoyed at myself for saying I'm too busy all the time that eventually it was like Oh, I'm so annoyed at myself for saying I'm the only one that can do something about this, Right.

Speaker 1:

Um so, yeah, i hadn't really thought about that until you brought that up, but I was really annoyed at my own behavior that was repetitive, that I wanted to get rid of and get to the bottom of. So I like that we can be curious about those parts of ourselves and use that to bring us to a place of greater awareness. Um, i'm going to try and make a tie here, because I feel like I'm going to try to make this Like these parts of ourselves that are unaware, um, or unconscious to these rules, we think we have to live by your scripts, we tell ourselves. I think those are the parts of ourselves that are fractured, right?

Speaker 1:

So it's like the part of yourself that just needs to do right by your parents or your grandparents or live by their script. Um, isn't really the whole self, for you said it's maybe about taking where they're at and what they taught you and building your own new set of rules or scripts from that, And so I would call that awareness, or like coming to your own truth and authenticity as wholeness, And that's what really draw me to having this conversation with you, Brandon, because you were talking about how do we make life decisions and choices from a place of wholeness instead of from this fractured place, And so I I hope maybe we can um get into that kind that piece of this conversation in some way that I don't know if I'm smoothly transitioning there or not, but, um, how do I go from.

Speaker 2:

it feels smooth over here, oh good.

Speaker 1:

It's like how do I go from I'm too busy to taking autonomy over my life And and building it in a way that feels more true to myself, less annoying, less agitating, whatever it might be. What are maybe some steps I could take to begin to work that way?

Speaker 2:

So there's like two things that I think that are bringing in here that are like quickly becoming my two of my favorite topics to talk about with my clients And, just like it was, people in general. Um, so I think one is like integrity and the other is integration. Um, so one of the things around like integration is just like is this concept of really listening to yourself and not like kind of like, rather than just choosing to listen to yourself and like getting angry. Uh, like, how can you take, how can you like really listen to whatever your body is telling, like whatever your mind is telling you. Like you know, when you hear, when you notice agitation, you know getting curious about like what is that that's going on? You know what is it that you're trying to tell yourself, and then you know how can you like integrate that into like your own being like your own, like what it is that you want in the world. So you know, i knew that, like for my grandparents, it was important to work, using that as an example for my grandparents, you know hard work was important, was really important for them to get them to where they want in their life and to provide for their kids and to get their kids a good quality of life. And you know, obviously I got that. And then at some point I was realizing, you know what I'm tired of this Um, and so you know, i guess the part you know, for, while I was banking my head against the wall, um, not really like feeling stuck in that, but then the uh, the kind of integration piece of it was figuring out. Okay, well, what is it that I really do want? You know, like, how can I listen to myself and say, oh, wow, like I think I should be at a good place and like what's the next step? Um, so it is the thing of just like curiosity, i feel like in general, like journaling, to kind of, you know, just get thoughts down and like, once you see those thoughts written down, it enables you to kind of like go back and revise them and say what you really think and really mean. Um, but the really, i guess that process of like taking you know whatever rules that you have, you know that exist for you, but then being able to create your own reality out of them is something that's really important to that integration piece, um, and so that's a lot of the. You know the, the, the, the, the, the, the. It's the idea of journaling. You know how I feel about.

Speaker 2:

In realized now that I wanna make pieces that are not best in the cloud But um, from a, um, great answer to be everything in this phase. There She gives me like a tip And I get a rad буде habit, and so I mean, just like I have been working with she goes, marglings, appearance and embroidery, kendall. Um, i've been like you know, when, i guess, when I'm working with clients, that's the type of thing we're trying to do. What do you know, if I was ever to do sort of like group coaching, I'd be. You know just the process of being able to write things down, see what I've written, then kind of like reintegrate there and sort of revise, like make what I really want to exist out in the world and what I want to be my reality and what I want to share to be the thing that shows up.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, i love curiosity. I don't know how many times I use it as that lens of like, follow curiosity. Like if you feel like you're stuck somewhere in life or if you have this problem or obstacle, follow curiosity, because almost anything that you're curious about, or if you can find a way to become curious about that. So, like, as an example, this morning I went on a quick walk because I was like, oh, we got two podcasts today. We got da, da, da, da, da, da da. So I was like I don't have the luxury of my normal long walk that I usually have, and so then I could feel this tension in my chest And it just so happened I was reading at Cartole a couple of days. So he's great about helping you to come into the now and into presence and feeling, into what's going on right now. But I think where I'm going with this, with your curiosity, is like I did that. I was like, okay, i'm just going to, i'm gonna shut off whatever I was listening to And I'm gonna ask myself why or what am I feeling right now? Like, what's my emotional state right now? And then I was able to say like, okay, i'm feeling a little tension, it's on my upper chest. Okay, why am I feeling that way?

Speaker 3:

So, just following that curiosity, then it was like, okay, i'm feeling that way because I've got these two podcast interviews. I don't want to, you know, flub them or do the guest disservice by not being prepared, so I better speed up this walk and get back. And then I have 20 things in my to-do list app that from all these travels that I haven't done, and yada, yada, yada. And I mean seven to 10 years ago I wouldn't even ask myself that anything, any of those questions whatsoever. I would have just simply been like I'm nervous, i'm tense. If I see anyone around me that's not nervous and tense, i'm going to most likely give them my energy and now make everyone around me nervous and tense, and I'm not going to get to the root of why I'm feeling that way.

Speaker 3:

And I think, if we can just get curious, if we can do some journaling I actually got busted out my phone and did a couple of voice memos while I was walking because I was like this is important And in retrospect they were very small things Like that was probably only five minutes to my day today, but just so helpful to where now I'm at a place of relaxation and ease and all of that. But those are all just small little steps, hearing things like what you've just mentioned, brandon, and integrating those into my life over these last years. And so if anyone's wondering what is some takeaways from this or how they can do that integration piece, journaling is a great one, just giving yourself some peace to be curious, to ask yourself some questions and be okay with that. Not like not trying to jam that in between, like just do yourself a service and give yourself some time and peace to do that And some really amazing things will come from that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, i mean right away, if you just think about it a little bit, shifting from irritable, agitated, angry upset to curiosity right, we're already late like raising our energy, energetic vibration, if you like that. Or we're just raising where we're at, just by shifting like that. So it's not like you mentioned early in our conversation, brandon. We're not denying that there are irritating things going on in our life, right. We're not saying like, some things aren't hard, but if we can make little shifts in the way we examine those things, we set ourselves up for so much more joy or success or awareness than if we stay in those low energy states, right? So I love curiosity. For that reason, if I'm really pissed off at you, chris, and I'm like how could he?

Speaker 3:

Which never happens. This is hypothetical.

Speaker 1:

Why is he doing it this way? Like that doesn't go very far, i just keep rehashing the same script I already have.

Speaker 3:

And you're gonna find the next thing that I do, which there are a lot of that could piss you off, and they're all very valid.

Speaker 1:

We're not denying that. But if all I do is just say like oh, i wonder why he's doing it that way. I already move out of the recycled script and I have a little bit of curiosity.

Speaker 3:

Or you wonder why it brings this emotional state to you too.

Speaker 1:

yeah, That's a really good point, or I just wonder about why that's irritating me so much. So thank you for bringing that up. I love these words for some reason. When you say them, brandon, integrity and integration they're just resonating with me so much, and you talked a lot about integration. I just wanted to give you a moment to say like are you separating integrity from integration? Are looking at them the same or together?

Speaker 2:

Sure, yeah, i wanted to also bring in the definition of integrity too, because integrity is not like in the way that I'm saying it.

Speaker 2:

There's a few definitions out there and you know the dictionary, but the one that I'm referring to is one that's a little bit more like alignment.

Speaker 2:

It's more similar to alignment, and so I guess the way it's, you know I'd sort of define it is that your thoughts, your actions, your words are all like in alignment with you personally.

Speaker 2:

And there's a great book that I read during my sabbatical, just to kind of like name another resource where this that was the first time I'd heard it used this way, but it was called The Way of Integrity by Martha Beck, and so that's, you know, if people are in this area, this place where they're trying to, you know, explore a bit like that was a great book for me to read and then to do some journaling, you know along with as well, you know just like explore things, but you know, really listening to yourself and sort of like honoring whatever that little piece is that's coming to you. But, yeah, answer your question, deb, around you know, integrity and integration, i feel like it's I don't know, they're kind of two separate terms. You know there's definitely some like interrelatedness, but I feel like you know, if you, if you can accept, you know just that your actions are an integrity, then that brings you a step closer to being able to like, integrate all the pieces.

Speaker 2:

I don't know that might be like interrelationship between the two.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's really helpful.

Speaker 2:

But I do feel like they're both just I don't know. I just think they're really interesting concepts and, for whatever reason, they just a lot of the stuff that I hear and notice in myself or in other people at least at this point in life they resonate a lot.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, martha Beck's book was also the first time I had understood integrity the way she explains it in the way of integrity right Cause sometimes I feel like it depends on how you were raised and what your traditions are. Integrity can be off putting word to some people.

Speaker 1:

And the way she describes it is just like your own personal truth and being true to that personal truth. So I like the way that you put that that if we are like solid in the knowing that these actions are in line with our own personal truth or our integrity, then it makes it that much easier for us to integrate them without feeling you know bad about maybe not being true to our family's story or abandoning this type of thing or this type of work. So yeah thank you for explaining that. That makes sense.

Speaker 2:

One little other thing I wanted to add as well onto this topic of integrity is that a lot of times when we have those like pangs, you know, or some things like something's up agitation, it's because we're not in integrity in some way. You know something that someone else did, how we reacted. You know how we're being like, the words we're saying, how we treated you know this family member, what we're doing with our money, all of that's you know, ultimately stems, like you know, especially when, like when we're off, our body knows, you know, our subconscious knows we don't always personally know it.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, if we can tune into those clues that we're agitated, that our body hurts in some unexpected way, that we're sick all the time, then, yeah, we can use those as hints toward being out of alignment with ourselves or our own integrity And just be, curious about how to get back there, right.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and I think so, like when I hear integrity, like being in alignment, being in congruence with ourselves. another word that was mentioned a little bit ago was living from a place of wholeness. Bernay Brown calls it wholeheartedness, and I think those are all like if, if you had to, you're like they're all the same thing. It's like if you're, if you're operating from a place of wholeness, if you're living in integrity, if you're congruent with your thoughts and your feelings and your external circumstances, or even, i guess, even in the face of some really tricky external circumstances, if you're able to stay in integrity with yourself, if you're able to stay wholeness within yourself. I think that's how you hear stories of people like Victor Frankel or the Buddha or whatever, having these really shitty situations going on all around them, but they were still to operate, still able to operate in a place of I'm here to have impact, i'm here to serve, i'm here to love and have compassion for my fellow man. even though I'm not sitting in a field of flowers with birds chirping in the background, it's like no, victor Frankel was in a concentration camp, his wife was dead, his parents were dead, everyone he loved dearly was dead, and they were still able to operate from that place of wholeness and integrity.

Speaker 3:

And so that's just an exaggerated example of, hopefully, something that none of our audience on this ever has to experience. but we have some level of that, like you said, those pangs of difficulty or those tricky situations, and when we can shine that light inside of us to find out why is it making us angry, why is it making us scared, why is it making us anxious, and we can start to integrate into that place of wholeness, then that beautiful, grounded, integral person that you are then becomes contagious to the people around you and it's an inspiration to the people around you where it's like, oh my God, how is Brandon able to be going through this tricky situation and still operate in this place of love? And so it's like that's where I feel like I want to be in my life, having that level of impact. And so, yeah, Goals for sure.

Speaker 1:

I think some of your verbiage before this conversation, brandon, that I want to link to now that's kind of the opposite. Example of that is, in some ways, how some people get to fight right. They go running from something that's making them feel fractured and they run toward fight or reaching out whatever they think will make them feel whole So more money, a different job or financial independence so I can have freedom. And I wonder what happens when we go running towards something that may appear positive but we're doing it in this unconscious way and grasping at something that isn't from a place of wholeness or awareness.

Speaker 2:

Is there. Can you speak to that?

Speaker 1:

a little bit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, i think a lot of what I have noticed, like once again in myself, just different parts of my own journey, but then also, and people that I've worked with, it's just usually it's this people are attracted to fight because and they're kind of like using fight, they're running towards fight. Fight is going to the money that they see and it's going to solve all their problems. If they can just get that gold and all of their problems will be alleviated. And I just feel like that's. It's related to a lot of this conversation, like this idea of kind of being like in integrity and out of integrity, like ultimately it's this kind of like self sacrifice that we're doing, that we're kind of self sacrificing our life and the current for this future that's gonna come one day And I just feel like it causes a lot of stress, a lot of scarcity and also sort of just like the expectations aren't exactly realistic but magically everything's gonna change because you have this number.

Speaker 2:

And so what I encourage people to do is to like not be, not be fooled by you know their brains sort of finding this one thing that seems like an easy way out, which really isn't that easy of a way when you think about it Now, that I'm like looking at this just sort of problem, so to speak, or this way that people are dealing with things, and instead start to figure out, like you know what is like if I can put it out there that you know really what most people, people don't really want to have, you know, a couple million dollars to be a millionaire. Like no one really cares about being a millionaire. Of course, we all like know that everyone knows to say that that's what they think about. What everyone really wants is to the life that they think that that's going to bring them. And so instead, like how can we focus on that? And then like really create the life that it is that you want and start to move towards that. And so then instead it's a thing where you're you know you're running towards this life that you're trying to create. Instead And usually for most people, that's you know something, where they have impact, where they've got connection.

Speaker 2:

You know to others, where they're living in integrity. You know to themselves they're treating themselves right, they're treating others well. I guess that's the piece that I feel, like a lot of you know like. When you look at people in the five movement who have been able to create so much impact, that's like the thing that they really have, and people think that it's because you know they've got the money, but instead these are also just the. Instead of these are people who've just been really deliberate about the hard stuff, you know, the stuff that's not accumulating money, but instead of they, they focused more on you know, what is it that I really want, what would be interesting, you know, and fun to me, or what would be impactful, and then they've gone for that And then the money's been a byproduct, yeah, and it's continued accumulating. I guess that's the thing I don't feel like. It's like talked about enough in the five community.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's not as quick they were. Yeah, i think. Sorry, but I think a lot of people learn that the hard way, brandon, they run, they run away from something. That's how they end up with five And they learn later that the money wasn't really the answer. But luckily it might lead to a deeper answer and deeper meaning. Right, and one way I like to talk about it. You said what do you really want, which is such a good question Like what do you really want? Because it's probably not $2 million.

Speaker 1:

A way that really helped me reframe that for myself and make it tangible was to quit asking like what I wanted to accomplish or achieve And instead how did I want to feel, and you mentioned a lot of those right, i want to feel impactful, i want to feel true to myself, i want to feel I mean in abundance, right. A lot of those things, and that's probably more what we're searching for than something we can keep in a bank account, right.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and that's what I think you know. Even playing off of what you're saying, how do I want to feel We've been able to I think someone shared this with us but we've been able to deal. Still, it down to almost everybody. If they just had peace and freedom. Those are the only two things that we're ultimately seeking, but a lot of us seek that through these external measures.

Speaker 3:

We seek that through financial independence. We seek that through what we think is going to happen if we buy the fancy car and our parents say like oh wow, that's a cool car.

Speaker 3:

You must, it must be nice to have that and all that kind of stuff. And so it's like, if we can, if we're ultimately on that journey, I will posit that, that we ultimately on that journey. To that it's just, it never in the moment probably feels like that. No one's ever really saying like I want peace and freedom. They're saying like I want the car, i want financial independence, i want to go to Greece, i want to. You know that kind of thing And where, where?

Speaker 3:

I think, yeah, if we can take that external North Star goal as as that place to kind of aim our ship and then just be curious along the way and checking in with ourselves along the way, i think that has. That's where the you know, the big change happens. Like we did get to a place of financial independence, we did retire early, we have seen growth in that chapter and in that space. However, i don't think it was crucial and necessary. It just did happen to give us the space to then start to have these kinds of conversations more frequently with other people, with ourselves, with Deb and I between each other. So it did give us a better platform to do that, but ultimately it was not boom. We hit financial independence. All our problems are done the next day were you know, we're super happy and we never have any fights or arguments or feel icky inside or any of that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, So it was actually Martha Beck in that book The Way of Integrity that said everyone's searching for peace and freedom that we've mentioned.

Speaker 1:

I'm glad you brought up in this episode Brandon, and I think it's Brandon who says mostly people want connection, and impact is probably what they really want, and I think you have some tools or some tips for people to sort of go about that. I don't know, hopefully I'm not like springing this on you, but how do people go towards what they really want, like maybe connection and impact, versus running away from a job that's making them unhappy?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a. You're going right where I was hoping. So the word I will say is action. You know we can. You know part of it is like curiosity definitely helps, But really action is something, and that's one of my biggest things is just, you know, taking action around things that seem scary.

Speaker 2:

You know like whatever that thing is that you know that, especially for people on their five journeys where you know staying at work seems like that, feels like that's the thing that you're defaulting to, is like staying at work, getting the bonus, What's that other thing that's like out there, that's just like, yes, you can't even make a good enough sound in there, You want to like vomit. You know that's probably the thing that you don't have to take. You don't have to bring it, do a huge action to bring it in your life, But what's just like a teeny, tiny step that you can do to get there. And I feel like that was one of the things that I I did own my five path a bit more And it was one of those things where pursuing entrepreneurship was something where it was just like I had to, like I was pushing myself so hard towards it, But it ended up being one of the best things I ever did, Just because it opened up this whole new world to me, like this idea of coaching, like who I could actually be in the world in terms of, like leadership, developing people, and like, you know, the relationships that you're able to cultivate, you know, when you have that kind of leader, mentor type of role.

Speaker 2:

So but it, you know, it also was one of those things where I did not when I chose to go into entrepreneurship. You know, I did a couple of spreadsheets but like there was no spreadsheet that told me that that was the right way to go. It was just one of those like all right. So so one of my big things is, you know, especially in the five communities, to like put down the spreadsheet and kind of go into your gut a little bit more.

Speaker 1:

Love that tip Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so.

Speaker 1:

I think what I hear you saying, though, is that sometimes, those things make us feel uncomfortable or a little scared, and if we just take small actions and the steps of those, it will lead to the other actions. I think, sometimes, where people get stuck is maybe they have that feeling like. It feels like, oh, this is probably what I want to do, but it's so uncomfortable and scary. What if I make the wrong choice, or what if it's not right, or what if I take the wrong action? Does that ever happen, brandon? Do you ever see that?

Speaker 2:

Sure, of course, but I guess there there are no. I guess that this brings us back to integration a little bit, where it's like there aren't. You know, i guess this is so hippy and coach, but whatever, there are no wrongs. You know, how do you just integrate whatever that experience was into your like, into your life? I guess I just feel like we all take things like way too seriously, and especially from a standpoint of taking like small steps. You know I'm not talking, like you know, sell your house and go out and buy a farm, or I mean you know something like super extreme, just so that you're moving towards a goal. But just, you know, if you're interested in farming, like go down the street and, like you know, participate in the community garden.

Speaker 2:

So, making an excuse about being too busy at work you know, like whatever those small things are that can get you a little bit closer and start to open things up a little bit more.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so good.

Speaker 3:

And on the sense of the wrong path, we did a book review of Boyd Vardy's The Lion Tracker's Guide to Life, and I love the way he says it is like you know, let's say, for the ease of a situation, it's if there's a hundred paths in front of you and only one is the right path. I'll disagree with that right on the gate, but let's pretend that that is the case. Then, by discovering that path 97 wasn't the right path for you, you've now eliminated one of the 99. And so now you're that much closer to finding the one right path. And all of that. And so action is what gets you there. If you just sit there staring at all 99 paths and never take a step down any of those, you're not going to get any closer to, you know, to connection and peace and freedom and all those beautiful things and everything like that.

Speaker 3:

So, yeah, taking action is and that's where it like. We have a daughter that is going to turn 18 tomorrow, just graduated high school and that's what I'm hoping to try to. I've definitely said the words, but to hope to guide her or lead her to is that each action you take may not be the one perfect. You never change anything else again. But by knowing that that is not the connection, the relationship, or by knowing that's not the career or the city, by learning what you don't like, you're so much closer to what you do like compared to just being, you know, overly anxious and just don't make a decision.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. I love it that you said action, brandon, because for me that was really unexpected And I think, if we just take it all as a compass, right, it's just a calibration, like I took this action and now I'm going to recalibrate and go this way Each action is just part of our compass. That's like leading us to our next action and hold it lightly, like you said, like man, yeah, don't make such a big deal out of it.

Speaker 3:

And taking some of those I'm throwing quotes here, but it's taking some of those quote unquote wrong paths is what gives you color and gives you clarity and what makes your life interesting. We just wrapped up an interview with someone that was a sex worker and she's not today, but that was part of her past And that has added color to her life and helps to see the world in a unique lens that only she can see as she's trying to make her impact on the world.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, Do you know? Barbara Sloan Brandon?

Speaker 2:

I do. I was. I was wondering if that was Barbara. Yeah, we we met at the afford anything retreat along to a little while back to pandemic. And then I got to see her again at the Congo, so happy about. You know how well she did in her speech. So I'm also going to promote her that episode of this podcast. And then, you know, see her economy talk. She's awesome.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, agree, definitely One other really quick thing around around that topic of, like, how we view these mistakes. So when you, when I think about probably one of my biggest successes, i could, i could actually view that as a mistake, because in that so like when I decided to start my own accounting firm, what I was really looking to do in that position was to have created, was to get into financial planning and investment management, and so it's like a six year detour and created a business, an accounting business, instead of that, and now I'm finally getting into financial planning, you know, for the last couple of years. But I don't look at that, as you know, as a mistake. Instead, i look at it as just a step. Yeah, it brought me a ton of things, so it's one of those things. Also, perspective is really important to when you're when you're making those decisions, taking those actions.

Speaker 3:

And a couple other points to to support what you were saying to about like when, when you look at the thing that makes you really scared or really uncomfortable, there's a chance you may want to lean into that or take a small action towards that to see. So I read a book last year called the Comfort Crisis and it it's it helps to to teach us how to expand our comfort zones or expand our ability to be uncomfortable, and if we can do that, then we're going to be more OK to take action because we're, like this is going to be scary. Like when you were talking before we hit record, you were talking about doing some webinars and you want to talk about the thing that makes me want to throw up It's like hitting, hitting, go on, i'm live, and now I have to interact live and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3:

This I can edit, this I can feel comfortable doing, since I've done it so many times. But like that makes me want to, you know, and so, but if Anyways, so I just I want to, i guess, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So that might be leading you you're saying to something that you might want to be curious about.

Speaker 3:

Exactly, yeah, there's. There's a reason that it's uncomfortable for me and that could that that discomfort could be an obstacle from getting to that next place that I would be in, in a place to you know have further impact to help the, the purpose and the meaning that I'm cultivating in my life right now.

Speaker 1:

That can be very unexpected, like creating your own accounting firm. Right, we can't see the whole picture like we're in the forest, so we just have to take one step through it. We can't see the whole forest when we're down in the trees. I don't. Before we start to wrap and talk about how people can get to know you or get in touch with you.

Speaker 1:

I want to dig into a couple of things you said, and one was that you created an accounting firm instead of just doing the thing you really wanted to do, which is what you're beginning to do now, and so I'm just super curious about what was the script that had you creating the accounting firm instead, or was it just like an awareness of what you truly wanted?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, that's actually a really good question. I'm glad you didn't let me slip away. Good listening, yeah, i would say it was.

Speaker 2:

Honestly, it was stuff about not being worthy, like the you know being a finance, but, like I'm an introvert, you know the kind of number crunching and you know taxes being this area that you know there's. There's a lot more opportunity there. Hey, no one wants to learn the tax code. No one wants. There's so much fewer accountants and you know out there than there are financial advisors, and so I saw it as away from me, a more introverted person, to get into that field.

Speaker 2:

And so definitely some of the work when I decided that I needed to leave accounting because it was a crutch for me, a lot of that work was honestly personal work around some of those beliefs. You know what was it that had me thinking that I didn't have enough knowledge or, you know, ability to connect with people enough and to finally say like, finally get to the point where I was saying like, oh, wow, this is actually more of a hindrance to me that it is, you know, going to benefit me in this next life that I'm in, or that I did, i see, is the life that I want for myself. Well, that's amazing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah it's helped me. Helped me get out of that accounting firm and you know we could do a whole nother podcast on like my various things that led to my scripts, but I'll spare us that for now.

Speaker 1:

Well, that's good. I will affirm that you are skilled at connecting and talking with people. Like, in the short time I was around you in the conversation we had, you were already coaching me and I was like, well, i didn't, i didn't really want to go there. So, yeah, that that's great. The other thing you said was perspective is important. So if you don't mind just elaborating on that a little bit, i think that would be helpful.

Speaker 2:

Sure, yeah, we really do. we are way more powerful than we all realize, and I mean that from another number of different ways. But you know, as I really start to like, believe that more and more, it's one of those things where, like, our perception does create our reality. And you know, there there was definitely a time where I viewed you know where I was in that career, but my career in building that firm, and I let that be my existence, which was just like I'm not, you know, i'm not successful, i'm not, you know, capable, this firm is garbage, like all these various things in my mind. But then, once I was able to get rid of that stuff and start to actually see, like, like I'm really successful, like I was never born to be an accountant that was, and I even remember telling myself that when I went into it. But I wanted this, you know, i wanted the skill, i was interested enough, i appreciated it, but it wasn't. I never felt like it was that like my ultimate thing. I think coaching feels a bit more like it's my ultimate natural fit.

Speaker 2:

But at any rate, once I was able to get rid of that garbage around myself and like, start to lean into, like, how successful I am and how, you know, i built that firm. You know I learned. I learned tax, i learned accounting, i learned to work with small businesses. I did all of these things and built up a valuable firm and was able to you know, to, to sell it, and so on. I'll have a pretty good night's session with you guys and I'll. So it's like how can all of that be? you know, obviously, that there's some stuff going on there, there's some disconnects. So, yeah, that was, you know, just some pieces of some of the work that I had to do around getting to my next level.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and the work led to a shift in perspective which led you to where you are now, so very good. Thank you. You have maybe a question you want to ask him.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, before we land the plane or as we're landing the plane? One question I like to ask is you know what's something on your bucket list or what's something on your dream? list something out there that you have as something exciting in your life.

Speaker 2:

That's a that's such a great slash triggering question, especially for a coach, because now I'm like I'm just doing this on air, uh, quote, unquote. Yes, Oh something on my bucket list or dream list, maybe that resonates more, i think it's probably surfing, oh, and not just like you know, not just like going out and surfing for like a day, but like getting, like doing surfing and like becoming not like a full on surfer, but just you know yeah, okay. Yeah, so one who knows how to surf and is comfortable with it.

Speaker 3:

What is it about surfing? Do you think that draws you to it?

Speaker 2:

Um, it's some ass. I love yoga, um, so I'm definitely a yogi, so part of me is like I should be able to do that. There's just something like really beautiful about it, like like being in the ocean, like the way that it kind of like the waves are like pushing you. There's something cool about just like probably the connection you'd have to have to the ocean to be able to do it. Well, i'm also not a confident swimmer. I do okay, but like I'd like to get better at that too, so it's one of those things we're like in order to make this happen. There's a number of things It also just represents kind of like. To me. That's one of probably like one of my biggest fears is the idea of drowning, so like yeah, there's a number of those, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's real stuff, something we share. not the drowning part, necessarily, but when you're out there learning to surf, i feel almost every time like, oh, this is the time I die because I drown. I guess this is when I die.

Speaker 3:

So you're able to really surrender into those moments. Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 2:

That's what goes through my head when I go too far out in the ocean as well, so I guess I'm not alone there.

Speaker 1:

Oh gosh, it's scary. right, it's vast, it's like powerful. Maybe that's part of the draw, but yeah, if you ever want to go on a surf retreat, i might have one like that.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to in the next year.

Speaker 1:

So but a goal like a dreamless thing for go bucket yourself is Costa Rica retreat that involves surfing, so maybe someday our dream list will converge and we'll hang out together in the ocean.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that would be awesome. Yeah, put me on the, put me on the waiting list for that. Cool, very good.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you so much, Brandon. This has been an even better conversation than I anticipated, and I knew it was going to be good, so thank you for your time. How might people get in touch with you or get to know more about you if they're interested?

Speaker 2:

Sure I. so my business is called reexamined. well, that's my coaching business. You know that's my URL. It's also my Instagram handle And I guess, on the financial planning side, if you want a, i guess, a five fluent coaching, fluent financial planner, that's called toller financial group And so that's. you know, that's where I practice. So those, any of those two places you can also feel. if you go on the website, feel free to email me. I'm always, i'm one of those people who I'm accessible, okay very good.

Speaker 1:

We have all that info. We'll link to it in the show notes And, once again, thank you so much for your time, for your inspiration and encouragement.

Speaker 3:

Yes, it's great to get to know you, Brandon.

Speaker 2:

Thank you guys so much. It's been great talking with you, so honored to be on the podcast.

Speaker 1:

Thank you.