Cancelled Travel: What to do Now?

As a result of the COVID-19 Coronavirus, the Travel Industry has taken an incredibly hard hit, impacting people all over the world.  If you have travel plans that you need to cancel, my guest has EXCELLENT information to help you navigate these confusing times.  Melanie Lake is a Travel Agent with Sherry Lane Travel, and she is my guest today!



Hi!  I'm Mary, The Curious Cowgirl.

I'm a Texas Based Travel Blogger, focused on Empty Nester Travel throughout the United States and Europe.

Thanks so much for tuning into my Podcast!

You also might enjoy checking out my Travel Blog, The Curious Cowgirl!  

Be sure and check back often, as there's ALWAYS a great travel tale to be told, here at The Curious Cowgirl!

Transcript

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Hey,

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y'all. Welcome to the curious cowgirl podcast. In today's episode, I have a fantastic guest. Her name is Melanie Lake. She is a travel agent with Sherry Layne Travel, and Melanie has some very good information and tips for any of you all who are facing and having to deal with canceled travel plans to stay with me. This is gonna be a very informative episode. Welcome to the curious cowgirl podcast where we're talking about all things travel and maybe some other stuff that I find interesting. Let's jump into today's episode now be

spk_1:   1:01
sure and

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stick with me until the end of this episode because I have a very, very good travel tip that you're for sure gonna want to get your hands on. Hey all OK, well, before we jump into the meat of this episode, I just have to begin by saying kind of a big wow, I don't even know what to say about this whole Corona virus mess that we're all in. And, um, you know, I know that every emotion that I'm feeling y'all are feeling, too. It's just feels like an out of body experience, kind of. But I first of all more than anything, pray over you and your family and your community and this world, I believe confidently that we're going to get to the other side of this. I have complete and total faith that as a world we will get through this together and come out on the other side stronger. And, um, you know, somehow better for it. I definitely believe that. So blessings over you blessings and protection over you and your family and your community right now. So one of the, uh you know, I guess news items that we're hearing about a lot is how all of this is impacting our economy. And the travel industry has was hit early and hit hard and will continue to feel the significant impact of the Corona virus. And so, regarding travel, I know that for most people, travel is an expenditure that is not 1/2 to it. So want Thio and, you know, as we sort of moved through the month of March and lots and lots of families had travel plan related to spring break. As we look forward to April and, you know, lots of travel takes place in April and then even moving into May in June. I think about couples who are getting married and had big honeymoons planned. Or kids were graduating from high school or college, and families had big trips planned to celebrate those moments. There's just a lot of people who had spent a lot of money, not necessarily typical money, not necessarily budgeted money, but spent money on travel. And now they're sort of sitting back, going, Okay, now what? What do I do about that? And so I'm definitely a person. When faced with a challenge, I like to take a deep breath and think through action steps, concrete action steps of how I can deal with whatever the situation is. So in this case, I turned Thio, my friend Melanie Lake, who is also a travel agent. I've known Melanie for years. I think I've known her for about 15 years, maybe even longer than that. We met when our daughters were in elementary school together. They graduated from high school together, and then Melanie and I have worked together professionally, planning trips for me and will. But then also we've done a little trip, planning for some other people who approached me for some help, and I immediately turned to Melanie. She's fantastic. And I love that Melanie is a very calm, linear, organized thinker. I think that's what we need in this moment is somebody who can say All right. Here. Step one. Here, Step two. And Melanie is definitely that personality type. So I will bring her on. And I've got some questions that she and I talked about ahead of time. She's got some fantastic answers. I definitely want you to be sure and stick around until the end because I've got some good resource is for you,

spk_1:   4:56
Melanie. Like welcome, Thio. The Curious Cabral podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Well, thank you so much for inviting me to be part of this great podcast. I'm excited to be to be on this. Well, we've been talking about doing this for a while, so I'm glad that, you know, whatever that the timing was perfect for both of us. So we have got a ton to talk about today. But before we jump into the meat of the episode, tell the people about yourself, who you are and why you decided to be a travel agent. All the things wonderful. I would love to. Okay, so Melanie Lake, I am. I will go ahead and describe myself as I have for the last almost 23 years. I'm a mom of a 22 year old son and 2019 year old daughters. My husband, Chris, and I had a wonderful time raising them. I'm a former attorney who was able to spend time at home with the kids and raising them, and then a few years ago started thinking I needed to find my next my next adventure of my next plan for life. After everyone left the house and one of my favorite things and the whole world is travel. I think that it is essential Thio well being. I think it's essential to learning. I just think it's essential to the soul to connect with people here in the United States and especially all over the world. So I was extremely excited when my good friend Kelly Gruber, who owns Sherry Layne Travel, approached me about if I would be interested in joining her agency and at the time it wasn't the right time because I wanted to wait until my daughter's graduated from high school so I could be as present for them as possible. But starting their senior year, I I started. I jumped on, I jumped on board and got my feet wet and started learning the business and really was full throttle. But the time they graduated, And so I'm coming on two years now, and I absolutely love it. Even love the exhausting car parts and the headache hearts, which are what's going on right now. Yeah, no kidding. This is This is kind of a challenging moment for everybody in the travel world, that is for sure. And I'm very grateful for all the information that you're gonna bring to us today because I think that one of the ways to kind of combat worry and fear is with knowledge. And, you know, especially when it comes to finance, is this is kind of Ah, you know, I don't know. This is a hard moment where people have spent money and maybe money's not coming in. And some of that money stunt may be related to vacations that we're planning. So I know that you're gonna have a lot of get info for everybody today. So less kind of jump into the meat of the episode here, and I guess what I'm gonna start Melanie is what would be kind of you're best advised to people who are really concerned right now about trips that they both to travel with the books and they did not use a travel agent. Let's kind of start there and give him a bit of your two cents on how you would advise them to proceed. Okay, So for people who have booked their travel, let's start with airlines because I feel like, ah, lot of the suppliers, like hotels and tours are following what the airlines air doing. At least that's the trend I'm seeing. So before we started this podcast, I just checked American Airlines, Not not for any other reason, except that that tends to be the one that I personally used the most because I have a credit card that generates Miles. And so I went on there and saw that American Airlines has extended their date to May 31st where they will offer vouchers for travel. You can go online and cancel it online without calling, because the whole times are terrible right now that you can cancel online. Keep your record andric indicator and then 3 May 31st you can get a voucher that is good for 12 months from the date you booked your travel or you can change your trip. Uh, you can do it for the same destination and they will waive the change fees because domestically, I think they're usually around $200 internationally they could go up to around $750. Um so, ah, lot of times the or what I'm seeing as a trend. I'm not saying it's going to be this way tomorrow, but what's trending is hotels will then take their cue. Oh, okay. The flight might you know, the for this client? The flight has been canceled. They can't get to their destination. What am I going to dio? I want to keep this client. So here are some things that maybe I can do, and the hotel will either give a refund a partial refund or they'll give a credit That's good for X amount of months or years, in some cases, for people to travel back to that hotel because they also are wanting thio engender that goodwill. So that people will come back and I haven't found any. I haven't really found suppliers who are just full out, not giving refunds and not giving credit. It's It's been rare, but again, I'm a travel agent. I'm working on that. So if you booked your own trip, I would in You're having trouble getting a refund. See if you can negotiate a future credit. See if you can negotiate, you know, six months from now a year from now, even even two years from now. Just see if they will if they will do that, because I feel like suppliers are more likely to be helpful if you're not looking for a full refund. Also, if you've booked with 1/3 party site, liken Expedia like a booking dot com something like that, that consent. That can be tricky because you are needing to call that third party site and not the hotel or the airline, because the third party site has to make the changes in their system. For them to go into the system at the hotel or airline or tour company that those wait times are well. Last week I was on wait for four hours I can only imagine that that has not really changed. So I'm confident that it's a headache for the independent booking traveler. Uh, be patient. If you can cancel online, cancel online and maybe try to negotiate the refund later. Because if you try to cancel after your dates of travel, then then you've lost your negotiating power. If you're canceling before and then, then you can oftentimes go back and negotiate that refund that credit, whatever it happens to be. And also, if you are able to cancel and you are due a refund, please be patient because a lot of those refunds can take 30 to 60 days because the system is flooded and they are trying to triage for a better word. Who comes first, whose travels, dates or first and then they're working down the line. So that's really my best advice. If you have booked on your own, is try to follow what the airlines are doing, what their dates are before you just cancel, and then also try to negotiate Ah, credit or refund with the hotel. If you booked directly and then also for third party sites, uh, you're gonna have to hold you're going to have to be patient. And if you have a refund or credit coming, you're probably going to be waiting 30 to 60 days to see that in your in box or on your credit credit card statement. Oh, my gosh. Melanie, that was unbelievably helpful. Information. Let me ask you a follow up question. Uh, he's actually will. And I were talking about this last night. So in the case, let me give you something that I'm facing. And maybe some of my listeners are, too. I have booked a hotel directly through their website. I didn't use 1/3 party, I but directly through a hotel websites. And I am wondering, Yeah, sometimes when you book online, I'm just gonna say not know like Hilton dot com. Sometimes you're going through, like a a main switchboard or whatever with a person who is just looking at their, I guess, inventory across every hotel in that chain. Would it be more helpful to try and get the local phone number at the hotel you booked and try and talk to that local hotel? Um, rather than you know, the person that's kind of on the switchboard would that make a difference? I think it could make a difference. I always like to try the local hotel first. And then if they're not able to do something and they refer you to that, you know, main switchboard or or they're more global contact, then go there. Because if that's the hotel where you're wanting to stay, you may have Maur uh, look with that general manager of that hotel. So that's my I always like to start at the source and then if I have to go higher up than I do that, okay, that's really helpful. And I really appreciate what you said about being patient. I mean, I think there's, I mean, nobody wants to make everybody happy. More than the travel industry does mean, you know they are. They want everybody to come back, fly back, go back, take the tour, whatever. But I'm kind of, you know, overwhelmed is a great word, and triage is a great word. You used both of those words and just think all of us have to take a super deep breath right now and know that we're one of a lot of people that are in the same situation and they want it to work out for us and for them to. So I thought that was very wise of you. Tha encourage people to have that perspective. Absolutely. You just this This is uncharted, uncharted territory. Excuse me for everyone, it The travel industry has never seen anything like this. I have a wealth of information through a Travel Advisor forum and even the 40 year travel agents. They just never seen anything like this. Nothing has shut down travel to this degree. And I think the last thing that we experienced was 9 11 and it's that was nothing compared to this. And so, uh, it's very frustrating. It is a service industry, just like you said. It's it's, ah, industry where we want our clients to be happy. The suppliers want our clients to be happy. It's a joy travel, supposed to be a joy. And so when we can't make that happen, just everyone's trying to get to the point where we can solve the problems. We can get money refunded, we can get credits restored and hopefully not go bankrupt in the process. And all the people said Amen for sure. Yes, right Okay, Let me, um let me ask you this. So I said in the introduction that, you know, full disclosure. I am, You know, Melanie, like the travel agents. Biggest fan are, you know, and I have not always been a travel agent user. I'm definitely the person who on doesn't mind Beckham and spread she doing all that research. That's why I'm a travel blogger on. And I used to really forge ahead on my own a lot. But over the last couple of years, I have so appreciated your help and have had incredibly good experiences. I'm with you. So once we get through this moment, Melanie, let's kind of talk about as people begin to plan travel going forward, why should they consider using a travel agent as opposed to just trying to do it on their own? Well, first of all, thank you so much. I love that I have brought you around and I take That is very high. Praise. So police know how much I appreciate that. Uh, I I didn't use a travel agent before. I really started doing this either. And I am blown away at what being that travel agent could do for people. So I think first and foremost especially given the situation we're in now we answer the phone, we answer the phone in a timely way. When you have a question when you need Thio, make a change when you need Thio ask advice when you are frustrated with I haven't seen this refund or what have you? I mean, just speaking to the situation where and now you're not gonna be on hold for hours if you used a travel agent. So I think that's first and foremost, uh, Secondly, in in this situation in this travel crisis that that we're in now for lack of a better word and then also just going forward, I am part of an agency. So I'm part of Sherry Layne Travel, which is then an affiliate of a larger group called Montecito Village Travel. And we I am so grateful and so thankful for both of those groups and their savvy about the travel industry and truly their weight that they carry in the travel industry. With that with a Montecito Village travel, which is part of virtuoso, we have an ability to negotiate. We get to come to the table with thes hotel suppliers with these tour suppliers that are global, and we just have an ability to negotiate that the independent traveler is not going to have. We are able to get that better rate. Get those perks added were able Thio. Uh, an example is I had a client who was booked to go to Europe on spring break. Uh, they booked themselves and then came to me to fill in some blanks. But one of the hotels they booked on their own is a virtuoso hotel. They booked a nonrefundable rate because they wanted to be ableto spend a little less. And then when all of this came up, they panicked and said, Oh my gosh, it's a non refundable rate and they won't they won't refund. So because of the relationship I had with that hotel in Europe due to my affiliation with Cherry Lane and Montecito Village, I was able Thio negotiate a refund. And so they said, because of our relationship and because this is your client, well, go ahead and refined the full amount of their stay. And I'm not saying that happens every time because it doesn't another. So I don't want people to think I can wave a magic wand and get them out of every non refundable rate I can't. But because of the crisis because of my relationship and because this was my client, I was able to negotiate that refund. And I just think that having the weight of a travel agent who has that affiliation really benefits the client instead of booking on their own of. And so really, I think the most important thing that you're going to find if you hire a travel agent is relationships and its relationships domestically abroad, with tour companies, with hotels, with airlines, just with everything I mean we have. We cultivate these relationships. We meet people for lunch. We d'oh ah, webinars toe, learn more about products. We do all kinds of interviews. We just We really try to stay connected to everyone in the industry as much as we can. It's impossible to become an expert on everything, but we try to become as knowledgeable as we can. And so that's part of why you hire a travel agent is to be have access to that wealth of knowledge and the inside relationships so that it can make your trip even better and certainly better than if you just book it on your own. Another reason I think that it's important Thio hire an agent is that I think that we can be a voice of reason and during times of uncertainty and then also just in what's now looking like mundane travel planning. Uh, I would say that during this crisis, I have been able to talk to clients, advised them when to cancel when the weight when. Thio. Let's push for this Ah, this agency to give a refined instead of waiting for a credit, depending on what I know about a certain, uh, hotel chain or tour supplier or what have you. I feel like we're able to give reason, were able Thio, help people not panic and and get through this and with with saving as much of their hard earned money that we can and then also a voice of reason when people are planning their trips during happy times when which they are coming, this will be over. People will want to travel again, and especially if you're gonna be, you know, in our house with our families for days and weeks on end. Everybody will want to get out. I'm I have a huge list. I've never had this big of a list of where I want to go other than my home, but I do right now. But even when we get to that part where we're planning, travel for the joy again of it and people come to me and they say I want to see these five countries in 10 days Well, there's what the travel advisor says. Okay, hold up. So do I. That's a great idea, But let's get the most bang for your buck. Let's look at this trajectory. Let's look at these countries. Let's look at you know, the things that are important to you. And so I feel like we are. We're the voice of reason when people want Thio have that trip of a lifetime or when they just want to go check off one more country or when they just want to go sit on the beach or they want that ultimate ski vacation. I think we can help me that voice of reason because we know what's out there. We know it's available. We've had other clients what's worked for them what hasn't worked for them. And plus, we also have this huge network of other travel agents that we can put out questions too. I have Ah, on a Facebook group with others for Montecito Village trouble. Uh, are we have a sherry line Travel Greek tax. So I always If I have a question, I can put it out to people who have way more experience than I do and say, Hey, what do you think about this? What's worked for you? And so I feel like we have these resource. Is that just that independent person booking travel isn't going tohave. And then lastly, I would say that we also as travel agents have a heads up two trends. We have a heads up to what's going to be really overcrowded this year. We have a heads up on. The airlines are going to start making these cancellations. We just have this consistent influx of information that is so helpful when planning when trying Thio make a determination on where should I go this year? Where should I not go this year? Oh, my goodness. It looks like you know there's going to be weather threatening what dough I d'oh. So I just feel like we get this influx of information that is certainly helpful to us when we're trying to plan for clients. But then that also benefits the client. That doesn't have that access to information coming in about travel advisories about hot spots and just about anything else that would be related to travel. Okay, I That's awesome information. And I you know, everything that you said makes so much sense. Happy times or if you know, there's a I don't know. You know something happens if your family's someone gets sick or, you know, someone suddenly can't leave their job. For some reason, having I'm your travel agent in your corner helping you make changes, what if, for whatever reason, is unbelievably powerful? And, you know, like I said, at the beginning of kind of this segment, you have a vast network and vast knowledge, and, um, that is invaluable, a CZ you're beginning to play in trouble. I really think so. I it's it's humbling to have so many qualified people that I can reach out to, and it also it takes the stress off of my clients. I love, um I love to be able to tell them. Don't worry about this. You I'd let my favorite part I'll just say this. My favorite part is when I get that phone call and people say I want to take this trip This is where I want to go. This is what I want to do But I have no idea how to do it. And I love being able to say Give me a couple of days, Let me put together some sample itineraries and then let's go from there. And I think it empowers people feel like they can make those great trips come true without having to have to deal with all the stress. And they don't have to deal with the stress of the planning, even if they like to do it. I can always say, Okay, here's your homework. Your homework is you figure out all this part and then I'll figure out all this part. And so to the to the person who says, I don't wanna have to deal with any of it. Just planet and I love both of those because it's a human interaction were we're both working on something we love to d'oh. But then also, once that fabulous trip is planned, it's something happens that I'm there. I've got your back. I've got your back. If something goes wrong, I've got your back. If you get sick, I've got your back. If there are strikes in Paris, I've got your back. If you know a global pandemic breaks out and we've got to cancel everything, and so I just think that is a source of comfort. That's a source of relief when it should be something that's that brings joy, it shouldn't have to be. I mean, it shouldn't have to be like a tax return that you've done on your own. You want it to be something that brings happiness. And so that's That's what I think travel agents are able to provide. Oh, my gosh, that needs to be made into a poster. Planning travel should not be like completing your tax. That's exactly okay. Well, let me ask you this because I've seen this pop up. You mentioned Facebook groups, and I'm in a number of Facebook groups as well for travel writers and trouble bloggers. And one of the questions I'm seeing come up a lot is the benefits of having travel insurance. So can you kind of speak to that? I can, uh, with the caveat. I am not an insurance agent. I definitely want to say that I do not know all the ins and outs of travel insurance. That is definitely a question for, you know, people who are qualified in all of that. But what I will say is what I know from my experience. Ah, because of this global pandemic, it is changing daily. Uh, we work with vetted companies through, uh, Sherilyn Travel and Montecito Village Travel. They have identified partners who who we like to work with, And so I try not to just go rogue and just by any travel insurance or suggest any travel insurance. Uh, in the past, I will say that we have recommended travel insurance for our clients that normally being like the normal travel insurance policy you would purchase would be one that would cover in case anything happens to you is the way I like to say it. If you get sick, if there's a death in the family, if there's an injury, if your trip gets canceled, if you're luggage gets lost. It helps cover all of those hiccups that, uh, that would usually render a trip nonrefundable. And so, if you have that travel insurance and something happens to you, then the insurance company will work to refund you for the amount you lost because of whatever happened. So in the past, we have definitely recommended people get travel insurance. I would say probably 50% of my clients do decide to purchase it, and about 50% down, they would rather pay a higher price and get a refundable rate. They booked flights with miles possibly, and they can know that they can get their miles reinstated. I mean, there's a whole host of reasons why people you know wouldn't wouldn't get the insurance. But then a lot of people do like to have that safety net under them. Another level of insurance that was available, and this is the part that's that's changing, and I can't fully speak to it because it honestly is changing every day right now. But there was a cancel for any reason writer that you could get in addition to your normal travel insurance and that we can't that would that would really protect you from almost anything cause you could just cancel for any reason, just like the just like it says. And so I think that because people have purchased that, it's it's everybody is claiming that right now anyone who has that writer has claimed it and said the insurance companies are paying out. So it's you know, as you can imagine, it has the potential to be devastating to the travel insurance industry. So it will be interesting to see. I know, I know there are changes coming through Travelex and Ali ons, and they're changing the way that they are wording that policy. I don't I don't know exactly what that's going to mean yet. But when travel starts picking up again, uh, obviously all of that will be firmed up. And I will still give those options to my clients because I do still think travel insurance can be of value. I know personally, we've had to use it twice. Four family trips where flights got canceled. Uh, and so, you know, maybe we lost today or it got cancelled on the departing end and we had needed a hotel room, and that really wasn't our fault. So we've been able. We've used it. It's been valuable, it's paid. And so I do think for trips that are especially the really expensive ones that you're pouring in, money you've saved or this is a celebration trip for, ah, 25th anniversary or graduation. I do think it makes sense to protect your investment, But again, I'm not an insurance agent. I don't know exactly where all of this is going at this point, but circling back Thio if you booked a trip on your own and you have travel insurance definitely. Look at that policy. What? What kind of policy did you buy and call the insurance company and talk with a representative and see what you can d'oh, to salvage your investment? Well, I needn't, Melanie, that goes back Thio kind of what you said earlier about having a a community that you're part of. You know, as these insurance companies kind of refine and redefine, which makes sense that they're gonna do that to be able to have a travel agent like you said in your corner then can kind of help explain. All right, this is what this really means, you know, as opposed to you know me by myself. Trying to figure it out, I think is you're really helpful. And so, you know, kind of another tick mark in the column of why you should use a travel agent. Somebody else that can kind of help exploiting that, you know, sometimes kind of funky, hard to understand language is really you know, um is a good thing. Absolutely. And one thing I've really appreciated is because of our connections. I feel like we have sales representatives with thes travel insurance companies who are amazing. And they will do a conference call with me and my client as we go through the policy and because again, like, I've tell them I'm not I'm not an insurance agent, but I know someone who is. And it's been it's been invaluable tohave. I have that conference call and go through, you know, Does this make sense? What does this mean? Do you think I need this cancel for any reason? And so I'm able to to be on the phone and hear that conversation and get that wealth of advice and experience so that my client can make the best decision. That's awesome. Wow, I didn't even know that that was possible. That's that's really good information. Okay, Melanie, I feel like I mean, I feel just personally person who has a couple of trucks, you know, and hotels and step that I've got book. I've got some answers now about what I need to do going forward. And I am sure that my listeners have been taking tons of notes and have, you know, a path forward. And I feel like knowledge is power. Knowledge fixes, also more calm. And you have brought incredibly good knowledge to the table today. And, you know, as we are kind of joking about, we all have nothing but time on our hands right now. So I appreciate you kind of laying out of the road map for how we can be using this time to you kind of sort through this tangled mess. And I'm 100% with you. It is gonna come back. We're gonna get through this Travel again will become a joyful thing that we look forward, Thio and well, you know, after all this state of him, does this run going? Need to go on a trip for sure? Absolutely. I told I told a friend the other day. I said, Look through your photos of past trips and enjoy that with your family. And then, you know, when you're sitting around the table and you're running out of things to say, start making a list of the places you want to go because there is hope this is going to get better. And all of these countries, including our own, are going to need that travel industry to pick up again so that we can we can help restore the economy that we can help restore the relationships that have, you know, been strained because we haven't been able to be together with people. And so I feel like travel is going to be a huge uniting, uh, joy when all of this is over. Amen. 100% agree, Mellie. Like you're awesome. So I I'm gonna if you will please share with everybody. And I will, of course, linked to this information in the show notes. But would you please share your email and again the name of the company that you work with so that if any of my listeners would like to reach out to you, they have that information. I would love to. Okay. So again, I'm Melanie Lake. My email address is Melanie, and that's M e l a n i e. At sherry Layne travel dot com. And that's my agency. Sherry Layne, travel. We have got some amazing, fabulous women who work in that agency. And I am so proud and thankful to call them my partners. We have our group text going 90 miles an hour every day, all day, even when there isn't a pandemic. And so I'm super grateful for their support and are just our friendships. But yes, that's my information. Okay, great. And again, all linked to it in the show notes and Mellie like, I appreciate you so much, friend. Thank you for being here and first of thoroughly answering all of these really complicated questions. And we're gonna look forward to happier times. And I personally cannot wait to start planning another trip with your help. Well, I would love to marry. You're amazing. Thank you so much for inviting me to do this. This has been a true joy. And, um, I hope I hope you're right. I hope it is a big help. And If anybody has questions, please feel free to email me. Even if you didn't even if you booked on your own, I'm happy to answer your questions because I have a lot of free time right now. Thank you. Appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks, Mary.

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While I hope you all found that as helpful as I did, I had several questions in my own mind that were answered by Melanie. And hopefully you all did, too. So, as I mentioned in the beginning, I've got some Resource is for you. Also. Let me go through these really quickly. First of all, I've created a cheat sheet for you all. Basically, it's a summary, a bulleted summary of everything that Melanie talked about in this episode. I will link to it in the show notes. When you click on the link, you'll be taken to a landing page where you have to enter in your email and then I could e mail you back this cheat sheet and hopefully that will help you. She gave us so much information. I think that will be a great tool for youto have printed out and sitting on your desk as you kind of figure out what your strategy is for dealing with any travel tangles that you may have. I also am going thio link to a blogger post that I have written. That is, again a more detailed summary of this podcast, so that rather than going back and listening to this episode many, many times, if you would rather read it. You know, everybody learns differently, and you may want to listen to it again. Or you may want to read the information again. I have created a blogger post that from the transcript of this episode and so you can go back and read and again on access all of those great tips that Melanie gave s. So hopefully this to resource is will be helpful to you. As always, you all. I am so glad that you are on this journey with me. I wouldn't wantto wouldn't want to do by myself. And I'm glad to be doing it with you all. And I look forward very much Thio. A future episode of the curious Calgary podcast. All right, you'll take here, but