How Neuroscience Can Empower Marketing with Louisa Dunbar

Guest Speaker: Louisa Dunbar

Louisa is the founder of a web design agency called OrangeGrove. She has been involved in the webby world ever since leaving university! Design and psychology are her biggest passions! She is figuring out what makes people tick (and click) and do the things they do. I have been following her on LinkedIn and everything she shares is truly valuable.

In this episode, we have an AMAZING talk about neuroscience and how it can influence marketing. We discussed the following topics: 1. What is neuromarketing, 2. Basic principles of neuromarketing that someone can apply to retain existing customers, as well as to acquire new ones, 3.  How easy it is to use neuromarketing, 4. What skills someone should have to use neuromarketing theories, 5.  How neuroscience, fits into the different stages of the marketing funnel, 6. Trends & innovations in neuromarketing, 7. How easy it is to be ethical in digital marketing and most specifically in neuromarketing. 

You can find Louisa via email at louisa@orangegrovedesigns.co.uk

Websites:

• orangegrovedesigns.co.uk/ 
• orangegrovelabs.co.uk/  

Transcript

Unknown: 0:06

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another podcast episode of Growthtale. Today I have with me Louisa Dunbar. And we will go on to discuss about how neuroscience can empower marketing. Louisa is the founder of a web design agency called Orange Grove. She has been involved in a Webby World ever since leaving University design and psychology or her biggest passion, sees figuring out ever since what makes people think and click and do the things they do. And that's why I have here, here with us in this episode, I have been following share on LinkedIn and everything he says is truly viable. So Louisa, can you please describe your experience in the digital marketing industry? What inspired you to begin a career in web design? Yeah, so I guess it started off at university, I did an interactive media production degree over here in England. And it's so that covered, you know, lots of aspects of digital marketing. It was called New Media back then, which was basically now It means digital. And yeah, we dabbled a little bit in web design. And from there, it just sort of flourished. I, I helped my mom with her, she had a business and I designed her website for her. might in fact, I designed three websites for her. And then yeah, I just kind of got hooked. I loved web design, because it for me, it encompassed both the design side, and also the technical side. So I like in the early days, in the early days it needs. I liked the design and the development. And so yeah, it kind of hooked me in from there. And I have been hooked ever since and grew my business as a result. So I was employed for a little while. But then yes, I just wanted the freedom to kind of follow this path in the way that I felt it should best go. Yeah, that's where we are today. Awesome. And so we you had a white background, web design thing? And how did you found yourself? experiment again, implementing neural marketing? Wow, yes. So yeah, I guess it progressed. So in the early days, I was just designing websites, for clients. But I always felt that if you're designing something for a business, it really should get results, you know, it shouldn't just look pretty it needs to work for them. And yeah, my knowledge sort of progressed down that route, investing more in the UX side of things user experience. And, and, you know, it was all about creating websites that drove those results that got the achieve the goals that those businesses were looking to achieve. And so it's always been for me looking for the next thing that can really, really enhance that for clients. So UX came first, then the psychology and then the neuro marketing kind of came after it was sort of always looking for the next thing that's going to deliver the best results that we can possibly accomplish. So yeah, that's how it came to pass. Perfect. So for this episode, I want for everyone to be like a pro guide and to understand neuro marketing, especially for SMEs and startups, and why it's important for their marketing strategy. So my first question related to that is, what is your marketing? Can you explain to the audience in simple terms? Yeah, sure. So neuro marketing or consumer neurosciences, it's also called. So in its basic terms, it's the commercial use of tools used in neuroscience to better understand consumers responses to marketing efforts. So in other words, it's another bit more science backed way of gathering insight to improve our marketing efforts. So yeah, basically, scientific market research. And traditional forms of market research focused more on the verbal or conscious responses, such as feedback surveys and questionnaires that you know, our users or target audience might respond to. But these are all conscious things. However, around 95% of the decisions we make in life, and online, are subconscious. So you know, these feedback surveys and questionnaires aren't really very accurate because we are unable to actually articulate those decisions that we've made or the reasons behind those decisions. So for deeper insights and more accurate insights, we need to be able to access consumers subconscious and the only way that We can do that is through the use of neuroscience tools. And they allow us to extract data from physiological responses like heart rate, temperature, perspiration brain activity, in conjunction with the eye tracking. So we know what is causing reaction at any given time. And but of course, since we're focusing on the brain here, the term neuro marketing has since also been stretched to kind of encompass not only the physical research methods to gain those insights, but also the application of behavioral science or psychology to achieve desired outcomes. So yeah, you explained it perfectly. We can say so that neuro marketing, technology helps marketers understand how the brain is safe, have a specific persona react to a particular situation using different resources and tactics. Other aiming principles are for new marketing that someone can apply to retain existing customers as well as to acquiring new ones. Yeah, there are plenty of theories within behavioral science that can help us with this, with neuro marketing, and psychology is all about putting the users first and making websites we produce as human centered as possible, as opposed to business business centric. So basically, includes probably eliminating as much friction from the website as possible. And so in simple terms, removing anything that could annoy users and add in features which make the journey as easy as possible, and therefore, you know, answering the users questions and pre empting them whenever they need. And, and in terms of retaining customers, if the experience is so seamless and pain free, that that should be enough alone to provide that sticky content, and to get them back repeatedly. But of course, you know, the offline customer experience has to match it as well. But yeah, along with this, there are plenty of you know, psychological theories, which can help us persuade users, you know, push them a little bit more to the point of conversion or resonate with them on another level. So a couple of examples might be a scarcity effect. So this is the theory that we value goods that are in short supply over those that, you know, there might seem to be loads of that. So we don't want to miss out essentially. So by showing low stock status on a product, for example, we'll help convert those who might be worried about missing out. So it's just about, you know, pushing them to the point that they think we're better do this now, rather than put it off. And another one is authority. So it's another really strong theory that we tend to use a lot on websites. And it's basically human nature to follow and believe those who are in authority, so added endorsements to your website from those who are in authority, for example, you know, doctors or thought leaders or influencers. And they that will help boost your website's or your business's credibility. But of course, you know, we can't use all the theories, you know, blanket across all different types of businesses, we very much need to assess the goals of what you're trying to achieve through the website in the business, who your target audience is, among other things. So yeah, we need to remain flexible and kind of look out book before we provide the answers. What are some questions someone should ask when trying to use neuro marketing for the websites or any other marketing funnel. So whether you're using neuro marketing, just in terms of the behavioral science point of view, or whether you're interested in actually using the tools to gain insights on your website users, and then optimize the user journeys from their results? It's really important Firstly, to align yourself with the business goals. What are you hoping to achieve? And if the website has clear goals, then yet neuromarketing can bring some really big returns. But not only that, it can provide insights into your customer base, which can help all areas of the business from you know, sales and marketing, you know, even product and business development teams as well. So it's Yeah, I hope that answers a little bit. Is it easy to use neuro marketing to applied to a marketing strategy? Wow. Effective neuromarketing can only really be done by people who have, you know, the proper experience, it might be academic experience, and you know, being having been trained properly. The reason for this is that it's really, really easy to incorporate subconscious biases into the results of that can basically lead it to be have the results completely skewed. And a lot of it can basically start to give this field of neuro marketing A real unfair reputation for inaccuracy if it's not used correctly. But it is a field that is evolving quickly to technology is thankfully, you know, improving each year, and is able to provide us with a lot of insights. There are businesses out there who offer a service, but they aren't really qualified. So it's just about making sure that you work with a reputable supplier, or just make sure you get the experience and training required to be able to get the results that you're you're hoping for. So you said actually, the most important thing is to have an academic background, right? Well, this is what this is our interpretation of it. Not all businesses see it this way, but from my point of view, and it's an area which is evolving so much that having that academic mind within the service, helps it stay on track and stops you being biased. with anything that's commercial, any activity that's commercial, it does risk those biases creeping in, and you're wanting to give the client what they want, you know, so to be able to negate that it's about bringing in people who don't have any, you know, preconceptions or they don't have any loyalties necessarily, and to be able to offer the interpretations and analysis of the data in the correct way. So yes, great. However, we may find some research some papers and we try to implement maybe this theory, like the ones you mentioned before. Should we take for granted the results of this research? Or should we do of course, another A B test, to experiment with our case, our products? And to see the reaction of the customers? Yeah, exactly. Because? Because every if you're seeing a paper from someone who's done it separately to you, then yes, you know, every user is different. Every customer base is different. Every product is different. Every user journey is different. Therefore, one size doesn't fit all, no matter how similar you think it might be. Therefore, yes, it is always important to you to do your own testing, and come up with your own results. Yeah, great. Another question I have is how this fits into the different stages of their marketing funnel? For example, do we have different things we need to consider whether a customer is on the awareness phase, or in different strategies? Maybe whether they are in the close of the conversion? I see. Yeah. So there are usually stages that businesses need to go through before the research phase. And yeah, and your marketing can be bought in at different sort of stages of the marketing funnel, and also the marketing process as well. But yeah, it can only really work when you're from a website point of view Anyway, when you're trying to analyze a journey or a specific page on a website. So yes, but before that, other stages of the marketing funnel, and you might be able to do incorporate other elements of your marketing or user experience, such as UX and customer workshops, to make sure that everyone within the business is on the same page, and that goals are really understood and aligned. And so yes, there is definitely the potential Do you think it is easier to practice neuro marketing before or after the launch of a new product or service or ID or anything? When what would you suggest someone to do before they consider using your marketing for their brand, so for the best results, and to maximize sales or signups and it should be brought in as part of the testing phase prior to launch really, but it's then you know, really important to test and tweak regularly on real customers to continually optimize the performance. But there are also circumstances where it could be brought in well after launch to, to optimize the journey at that point. It kind of depends when a company is basically ready to invest in improvements. A lot of it comes down to budget or just knowledge of this field. Can you predict some trends, innovation senior marketing for the next year maybe or the next years? Yeah, it is a tricky one is a tricky one. But the in terms of the technology there's you know, at the moment we have eg we have GSR galvanic skin response, you know that with in conjunction with the eye tracking and facial coding, some of Those need more improvement improvements before they are 100%. There. So I think, you know, improvements with regards to eg and how that's interpreted. And also facial coding and how exactly that fits in, is going to be something that will come to light more over the next year or two. But the big one, which remains slightly elusive is fMRI, which is functional MRI scans. And those are when you know, for those of you who don't know, those are when you're in an MRI scanner, you know, like you would in the hospital. And you're asked to respond to stimuli that you're presented with. And they can see your areas of the brain lighting up. And, and so that at the moment is obviously not very accessible. There are not many of these MRI fMRI scanners around and and also the ones that are that are extremely. Yeah, that's something that I hope will be innovated further in the next year or two, maybe more than that just to make it more accessible. Nice. Since the moment you said about the example you gave about the scarcity theory, every then visiting millions of free soaps and websites, and I see a lot of people applying this theory, however, they not understand that they're using neuroscience neuro marketing theories. And I'm sure they're not applying it 100% correctly. Have you experienced any other examples like that, that you can get that you say, Okay, this is a big favor, they need to know, for example, to enhance this, what are the biggest things you have seen? Yeah, yeah, that scarcity is the biggest one, though. So many, so many people, so many businesses apply that and falsely, and there have been recent examples of brands being investigated for it as well. So it's not something you can get away with. There's a big example over here that they were, you know, pulled out for and have corrected their ways. I think, anyway, basically, they use the concept of scarcity, but they it's fake, it's not true. You know, it's they say that there's what, five people watching this item, we're really that's not true. And so that's how they're using it falsely, it's fine. If you use scarcity, you know, morally, and it's correct. And you know, that that's fine. It's fine. And I don't have issue with that. But yes, it's there are other examples. And we call these dark patterns. So there are aside from, you know, immorally, putting data in one, which is incorrect. And there are things such as ads, which are disguised to get clicks, confirm shaming, you know, trying to move out of opting out, that kind of thing. And they are tricks, really, they are designed to manipulate audiences rather than persuade them, which is what we do as part of neuro marketing. Yeah, businesses use them for quick wins, but they really just need to understand that they will come at the expense of loyalty and repeat business. So in the end, it's it's their own brand that they're doing harm to. So yeah, it's aside from that day. There's, aside from the sort of the psychological tactics that are being used. immorally there's the whole field of neuro marketing and subject to that as well. Many people, many businesses get tempted to use neuro marketing, as neuroma as marketing. And so they throw the term about to impress and attract clients, but really, they don't implement it properly. If at all, the results aren't great. So it can, you know, bring this field into disrepute, which is something that really bugs me, which is why we came up with University College London, as I said, the academic side of it, so that, you know, we can prove everything we do in ethical. So yeah. Guys, this leads to my last question, actually, something that I started using the last years and continuously discuss with other professionals. And I really want to hear your thoughts on that. What ethics in some marketing means to you, do you think it is says it to be ethical in the term marketing and more specifically in your marketing? And yeah, I mean, it does really, it means a lot to me to be ethical in digital marketing. And I think it's easy to be ethical, if you have that inclination. You know, and so as I said, with regards to using your marketing as marketing people are just using that to gain businesses. When to gain business when really they're not actually implementing your marketing. But they know that it's kind of a bit of a buzzword at the moment. So they're using it from from that point of view. But yeah, as I said, I think, you know, if it isn't if they're always going to be unethical businesses out there, you know, who will use the dark patterns and psychology tricks and to manipulate users? And so, but yeah, it's down to personal choice. I think it is easy to be ethical, if that's the kind of image that you want to project. And that's the kind of person you want to be in business you want to be it's a choice at the end of the day. Exactly. It's it's choice. As you said, I don't know if you want to add anything more to our discussion. I concluded with my equations, I can talk about your marketing day. But um, no, I think you've covered the main bits, actually. And I think, yeah, if there's any other questions, then then feel free to ask or, you know, feel free to get in touch as well. Perfect. So thank you very much for joining this episode. It was lovely having you here. I won't keep the one that you said. And to repeat it. We shouldn't manipulate the audience just to persuade them. The goal of marketing is actually to identify and satisfy customer needs only that and it is easy to be ethical. As you said. It's, it's always at the end of the day. So thank you very much. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Thank you all for hearing and see you at our next episode.