Burnout Isn’t Weakness, It’s a Warning with Tiffany Leader

In this raw, real, and deeply reflective episode, James sits down with burnout expert and full-time RVer Tiffany Leader to unravel the truth behind burnout, self-worth, entrepreneurship, and the power of taking a damn pause. From hitting rock bottom in her career to launching a mission-driven business that gives her freedom and healing, Tiffany shares how she moved from barely holding it together to helping others build sustainable, soul-nourishing lives.

This isn’t just about success—it’s about staying sane, centered, and unstoppable.

🎙️ What You’ll Take Away:

• The "burnout incident" that changed Tiffany’s life forever—and what she did next
• How to know if you’re in fight-or-flight… and what to do about it
• Why failure isn’t the end—it’s just feedback for the pivot
• The small, icy trick that could instantly regulate your nervous system

📚 RESOURCES MENTIONED

• EFT Tapping (Emotional Freedom Technique)
• The Take a Moment Collective – Tiffany’s soul-nourishing membership for driven women
• Instagram: @seethewonder.llc
• Email: tiffanyleader@seethewonder.net

#EntrepreneurHealing #BurnoutRecovery #NervousSystemRegulation #PurposeDrivenBusiness #WomenInLeadership #UnstoppablePodcast #MentalHealthForEntrepreneurs #EFTTapping #MindBodyConnection #TakeAMoment

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Transcript

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James Dunn: All right. Hello, Hello, and welcome everybody to the unshorted, unstoppable. Podcast my name is James Dunn. I'm your host as always, and I've got a fun guest a guest that I'm excited to have on here with me today. She's a friend of mine that I've known for a while, and we've been kind of going back and forth on getting this conversation set up. And so I'm excited to have you here, Tiffany, how are you doing today?

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: I'm good. I'm doing great. I'm glad it's spring. We're recording this like at the beginning of spring. And so I'm just like energized by the weather and being able to be outside more, and I just hope it sticks, and that we're not going back to more winter. So

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James Dunn: Man.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah. Just energized by it.

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James Dunn: I Amen. I am energized as well, and I'm right there with you. I hate the people that listen to the show. They know I cannot stand the cold weather, and like we talked about before. This show is like, I pray to God we're not in that the fake spring where it pretends that it's spring, and it's not really spring. And it's already dealt with that a little bit. But we're calling in warm weather today, Tiffy. That's what we're doing. We

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Time of agreement.

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James Dunn: Yes, and well, and and as I mentioned you and I've known each other for a while so obviously I know who you are and what you're all about. But can you give my audience just a little bit of introduction to who you are and what you do

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah. Yeah. So my name is Tiffany leader. I am a licensed, clinical social worker, and I'm a burnout coach, and my company is called see the wonder, because we believe that the beginning stages of healing starts when you get to see and observe the awe and wonder in the world. And so I have 3 lanes to my business. I do the coaching. I have a therapy, a virtual

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: therapy practice, and I do trainings on burnout and compassion, fatigue, and a fun fact about me is that my husband and I are full time, rvers.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: We are like planted a little bit right now in Springfield. But we go out from here, and we love being on the road and camping and exploring, especially in this weather, is great camping weather right now. So that's that's how I prevent. That's what I said. That's how I prevent is for us to be on the road

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James Dunn: There you go. That's awesome, and I love the fact that you, you are our full time, our viewers. And so, if it is too cold where you're like, you know what? Let's let's move down the road, honey. Let's just let's just drive till it gets a little bit warmer. Then we can stop, and then, hey, now we're in warm weather again.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Exactly, and we it takes an hour for us to pack up and hook up, and it's like the best feeling to know that you can. You can do that.

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James Dunn: That is awesome. That is awesome. Well, very, very cool. And so before we dive into the show for yourself and anybody who may be new to the show that hasn't listened to it before. What this show is about. At least this specific interview series that I'm doing right now is I'm reaching out to people, you know, who are successful in some form in life. You know, whatever that happens to be, whether that be business in relationships, in.

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James Dunn: You know. How are they choosing to find being successful? But I want to talk to people and ask them about their past, their history, the challenges, the struggles they've gone through and the experiences they've had, and how sometimes we look at those things at the time, maybe as Mom and this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. But later on down the road we recognize that was an amazing opportunity, and something that helped us grow and have them share those stories, because

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James Dunn: all too often we can find ourselves in this. It's all me. I'm the only person ever gone through this. And why do I suck so bad? Why is life so mean to me? Well, it's not as mean to everybody some days, so is does this sound like a conversation that you would love to join me in today and share your experiences

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah, yeah, cause we all have that story

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James Dunn: Yes, yes.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: We all have that story, and I think, too, is to normalize it, to normalize that we all have a story. We all have

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: times in our lives where life like sucks. But I think, like we need to normalize it like my passion is to like, share my story, to help people normalize like, Hey, we all go through stuff.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: But the cool thing about us as human beings is that we can be resilient, and we can rise up, and with things can change, and I'm sure we'll like, talk about some of that stuff. But there's always hope

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James Dunn: Yeah. Yeah. And that's really exactly what the show is all about is just sharing those stories. So people don't feel like, Hey, I'm alone in this, and to recognize that we all go through these challenges, these struggles, and and we can go through them and become come out on the other side so much stronger, so much better, and so much happier than we ever imagined. If we just keep that hope alive, and keep believing so with that. Let me dive into my very 1st question. So, Tiffany, what's the biggest risk you've taken in life, or the biggest challenge you had? And what did you learn from it?

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah, so many things. But the thing that comes into my mind 1st is is becoming an entrepreneur.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: I always said that was for my sister. She has. She's had her own business for a long time. My dad's side of the family. They're entrepreneurial minded, and I was like, oh, that's them. I will always work.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: I don't want that responsibility. I think it's gonna be too hard. And then I got to a place I call it my burnout incident, where I was burnt out on multiple levels, and my health was tanking to the point where I had to ask the question of myself. Am I going to continue to do what I'm doing?

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Or am I going to do something different? Because if I continue to do what I was doing, my health would get worse, and not that I would die, but it felt like I was on that path, because my body was failing me in some some aspect.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: And I was like, I have to do something that's different. And so, even just the thought at that time of being an entrepreneur, I was like, what is this gonna be like? So it was a challenge. But there was like this little tiny flame inside of me that was like, you can do that.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: and you can live the life that you want, because the the biggest thing for me was to I wanted and I desired, and I dreamed of a life where I could balance my health, my well-being, and taking care of myself and doing work that I love to do.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: because I was doing work that I love to do. But my health was tanking because of the hours and all the different things, and so I think the challenge was like changing my mindset of what it means to be an entrepreneur, and what that looks like, and how how does that feel? It's actually not as scary as sometimes people say it is, or other people's experiences

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: are with it. So I had to like, overcome those those thoughts. Really, a lot of it was like the mindset of like, what do I expect it to be like? What do I want it to be like?

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: And when I started stepping into it I was afraid like I'm not gonna lie. I was afraid I didn't know everything, but like it was the best thing all at the same time

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James Dunn: Yeah, yeah, I love that. And hopefully, it won't throw me off too much on my other questions. I've got set up for you. But, like, you know, changing that perspective of entrepreneurship and shifting that mindset. How are you able to do that?

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah. So lots of help.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: It's like.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: it's a village. So I have some really great friends that I can be honest and transparent with. They were with me, and I did at the time I did hire a coach that was in the kind of the same

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: the same. She had the same similar journey that I was going through. She had the same clinical license that I have, and she stepped out in entrepreneurship, and so she knew the mindset that I had as being a social worker, and how we are. You know a lot in our field. It's like we don't do it for the money we love doing this for we're gonna save the world type thing, which is a great, sometimes mentality to have. But when you're in this field as long as I've been in it like

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: that, mentality goes away really quickly, and you get a little bit jaded. And you just you know

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: you have to like like she was able to pull some of that stuff, especially about the selling and about you know, showing up and being visible, and so I I used to be afraid of asking for help, like I'm the kid in school that would raise my hand and like turn bright red, and I was just so embarrassed. I perfectionistic. I thought I had to have the answer

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: and so for me to be like. You know what I need help. So I'm gonna talk to my friend and hire a coach. I'm going to do all these different things with a really big step for me and saying, like, you know what it actually takes a village to be able to do this because what I found was that being an entrepreneur.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: personal development direct is directly tied to professional development. If my business was going to

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: work, I had to work on the things that were coming for me, I had to work on. Why, I was

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: burnt out at that time.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: And so a lot of journaling a lot of insight from other people, a lot of accountability of me like you gotta face your stuff. You got. You got to do this in a kind and gentle way, but like we've got to do this.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: It was almost like I have to do this to save my life.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: It's a mess.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: because if I didn't I would repeat the same thing, thinking things would be different. We call insanity.

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James Dunn: Yeah, yeah, wow, that's that's awesome. And I commend you for taking that deep dive and challenging yourself and not being afraid to ask for help, because I think so many people are afraid to ask for help. Unfortunately, and society has kind of taught us to not ask for help, you know, at least for myself, as a man specifically. But I think in general we're taught more. So to be. We're going to be tough. We got to be strong, and we got to be

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yes.

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James Dunn: I can take care of all

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: No.

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James Dunn: Yeah, yeah, but I but I love what you did. There was you found somebody who had gone down the path that you'd gone down before somebody who knew your specific story, and exactly the thoughts and challenges that you were having, because so often we can see, you know

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James Dunn: somebody talking about. I've had mentors in the past to tell me. Do this or don't do this, and I listen to it, and it sounds like great advice on one level. But I'm like, but you're not going down the path that I specifically want to go down. And so it's not making sense for what I want to do. And so that is a really important key factor. When you're seeking out help is find people who know your path not

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah.

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James Dunn: Necessarily their path, because I mean they're giving you best advice based on what they've experienced and the path that they've tried to take or they're taking. But it's not always going to be the best for you. So always, always understand just because they're successful, doesn't mean it's always going to be best for you.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Exactly. And I, I'm a researcher by nature. So I'm like, I watch this coaches. I probably like consumed, like all her Youtube, videos, all her podcast maybe not all of it, but like a lot of it. Just so I could get the. So I could get a feel for who she was

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James Dunn: Yeah.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: And get a feel for her integrity and things that I valued in my own life. And so that's what I encourage other people to is like. Watch them

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James Dunn: Yeah.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Watch the coach that you want to hire and ask questions if you need to, but like we'll just watch what they're doing and how they're showing up and does it fit in your

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: what? Where you're going?

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah. Yeah. One of my coaches, he loves to say, eat the fruit, spit out the seeds, you know. So take what works for you, and get rid of everything else.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: I say, I say, eat the meat and throw out the bones

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James Dunn: Well, there you go. There you go, all right, perfect, cool. So let me ask you on your journey. You know, through personal development, through the business that you built and everything. Has there ever been a specific failure that you've had the time you thought. Man like this is the worst thing ever. But now that you look back on the journey, you couldn't get to where you've gotten now without having gone through that. And it was actually a beautiful blessing in disguise.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah, I think of like putting my offers out there for the 1st time for coaching, and like

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: not knowing everything about marketing and just trying to do it, and just like failing at it, like as far as like. Nobody's like crickets.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: I think, to some extent, as we evolve as entrepreneurs like. You're always learning something. You're always growing. And so

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: because, like, recently, I just launched something, too. And it's not what I expected. The outcome wasn't what I expected, even though I did things differently and whatnot. But it's like

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: we just keep going. We just have to keep going. And like I

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: I learned I've learned so much about failing, and that it's not a bad thing so like working on the mindset of like, what if I fail like, what does that mean about me? What does that mean about my worth like for me? It was like, I'm not good enough. I can't do. I'm not worthy enough to put this stuff out there, and I had to work on them, saying, You know what that's not true. Yes, this sucks. This hurts like, I'm trying to build this business

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: and it doesn't feel like it's working. But I knew that like I couldn't, I couldn't stop.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: And just because I feel it doesn't mean the business is over. It's just like I just had to PIN it.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: And I learned a lot about pivoting, and I think, as an entrepreneur like we have to pivot all the time whether it's the market, whether it's algorithms. If you're social media marketing, it's it's all the algorithms, all the platforms.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: The different things are changing all the time.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: And for me, I had to learn like, just because it didn't work doesn't mean it's over.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: It's just a learning lesson to build.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: and I don't think if I didn't have those quote what I thought were failures. I don't think I would be as strong as I am in my business now, because now, if something doesn't work, I'm like it's a blip instead of a mountain back. Then it was a mountain, and I was like, Oh, my gosh!

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Happening

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James Dunn: Yeah, it was like, the ever, yeah.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah, I'm like, maybe I'm not supposed to do this. But

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: now, I'm like, Oh, okay, let's just pivot and see what's gonna happen.

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James Dunn: There you go. There you go, and that kind of perfectly leads into the next question I have for you, and you kind of answered it, maybe, and maybe got a little bit of different version of it. But what's 1 belief that you had to let go of to move from a place of unsure to unstoppable

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah, there's so many I feel like I work. I have worked on so many over in my entrepreneurial

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: journey, but I think the one

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: that keeps coming up, that I still am working on. I think I feel like I'm way better at it and doesn't like derail me.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: The core belief is like, am I worthy

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: to do this? Do I have a seat at the table.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: and like I know that in my mind, and I can intellectualize it, and I can say all the different things of why and I believe in that. But like in my heart, in the depth of my soul, do I really believe that I'm worthy to show up to have a business to be a woman, to lead this company

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: to face all the challenges that I face or could face.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: And like, today, I can say, Yeah, very quickly.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: It's like, Yes, I do believe in that. Does it crop up every now and then, of course, anytime you expand and do new things, they may come up.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: So now I know it. But

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: I can remember it presenting as all different types

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: of all different. What if questions of like, what if I can't learn this? What if this platform doesn't work like it presented in those ways. So I didn't really know what it was until I started really like digging in and working. And I'm like, Oh, this is like a

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: self worth saying. It's not if all these different things are going to work or not, like the core of it is like, Am I worthy

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James Dunn: Yeah.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Do this

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: and like I said, like even just talking about it. Now it's like, Yes, there's like a grounding. Yes, I am. But I'll you know. In the beginning it was. It was very shaky

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James Dunn: Yeah. Well, I know that that's something that so many of us, you know, struggle with on some level, especially as we put ourselves out there in an entrepreneurial space, because, like you talked about before, you know, we're getting rejected over and over and over, especially in the beginning. And we start to internalize that way. Does that mean I suck? Does that mean I'm terrible? I mean, I'm no good, you know. We can let that beat us down until we realize. Well, no, it's not me.

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James Dunn: They just don't like the offer that I put out. You know. They liked me because they talked to me. They obviously had some connection to me, but they didn't really care for the offer that I put out, and, like you said, as we can start to disconnect from the offer, or disconnect ourselves from the offer and say, Okay, they just didn't like the offer.

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James Dunn: I just tweaked the offer. Let me change that. Let me maybe just offer itself. Just wasn't that good? Maybe it's just the way I presented the offer. Let me just keep focusing on that and learning from and growing from it.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah, yeah, and tweaking it, because, you know, I always hear the statistic, especially about social media marketing, because that is my like main way that I market somebody has to see it 16 times before they actually click on it. So

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: when I 1st heard that statistic, I was like, oh.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: okay, because I think sometimes we get so nervous. And we're like, okay, we're gonna put it out in the world. It's gonna be so exciting. But like probably, like your people haven't never saw it, and so

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James Dunn: It's like one time in the whole world like takes it and runs with it. And I'm a millionaire instantly. That's not how it

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: That would be great.

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James Dunn: Oh, darn it!

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: That's

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James Dunn: What I'm doing wrong in this business

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Oh, right!

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James Dunn: Why didn't somebody tell me this? But I mean I and it's crazy as it sounds as much as we laugh about it. So many of us. Even still, today, I still feel like even the veterans in this business will still sometimes put something out there and expect these massive results. And then it doesn't happen. And then, like Oh, my gosh! What happened? I thought I knew how to do this. I had it all figured out my last

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Exactly.

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James Dunn: Seen reels went viral or whatever. I got a great response last 4 offers I put out. And suddenly, this one's not working. It's a constant evolution. It's a constant going back and doing that work that you've talked about. It's always going back and knowing that it's never, ever going to stop, and I always.

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James Dunn: I'm always. I don't want to say I'm hesitant to say that, but I always I'm a little afraid to say that to people, because then they're like, Oh, shit what? The fuck's even the point if I got to do this forever. Yeah. Well, because what's the option? Just to sit on your couch and eat Cheetos all day long, and say, life sucks. No, thank you.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Right and going back to self worth like. Whoever's listening to this like you're worth it

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James Dunn: Yeah.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: And your passion and your purpose and your impact, and the people that you're going to you will get in front of it's worth it. It's worth it every time, every tweak, every quote failure, everything that we do that doesn't feel right or doesn't feel like it went the way that we expected it. Like, I always think of that next person that I'm going to impact. And that next person that's gonna be

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: what I'm putting out there. And it's it's worth it because you're worth it, because you have gifts and talents and abilities, but also the people that you're serving. They need you

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James Dunn: Yeah, they do, they do. And the more you're willing to show up, the more shows them that they can show up. And they can do this

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah.

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James Dunn: I love that. So what if you can think of anything specific? What do you think would be the best advice that you've ever received yourself about how to push through self-doubt

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah. That's a good question.

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James Dunn: Hmm.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Like my therapist. That kind of goes on

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: as well. I think the 1st thing I think of is like you have to regulate your nervous system like, you gotta regulate your body

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: activated every time. So yeah, here, here we go. My therapist

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James Dunn: Yeah, well, and that's

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: So I love neuroscience and the study of the brain and all of that. So what happens when we go into an activated state when we go into that fight, flight or freeze state the logical part of our brain, which is like the top part of our brain, literally goes offline.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: It disconnects from our system, and we are just in the emotions, and we're flying by the seat of our pants of our emotions. So sometimes like when you're so overwhelmed. By your emotions. You're like, I can't think I can't make that decision. Well, it's true you literally can't, because that part of your brain is turned off.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: and so I think, regulating your body, allowing yourself to come back down, allowing yourself to plug in that logical part of your brain back in

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: helps. You start to see the lies that you're maybe you're hearing

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: or see the truth about yourself, so it's combating those self-doubt thoughts of like, I can't believe you did this, or why are you doing this? Are you even worthy of that? You should have done this, or known this better, like all those start.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: all of those thoughts start swirling. But when we can regulate the body, when we can turn that part of our brains back on, then we can think more clearly, we can process better. And so I feel like it's a connection of working in our brain and our body regulation

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: in order to combat the self doubt that comes up

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: cause I know for me like I would be activated. And I'm like, I can't think I'm so like stressed out. I'm like.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: I feel like I have to like do something about it. I have so much energy inside of us and emotions or energy. And we're so activated that I couldn't. I couldn't think I was like, Okay, so I feel like, the best thing that I've learned is that regulate your system. Take care of yourself and then work through.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: What? Where is that doubt coming from?

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: What's the core belief that's attached to that, so that you can, so that you can move through that new partner

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James Dunn: Yeah, I love that. And you know, talking about that nervous system regulation, you know, it's something that I've been really working on myself quite a bit over the last year or so, because it was something that I never recognized

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James Dunn: growing up in a very turbulent childhood. You know, in certain aspects. It's weird, because I look back now, and I see I can. As I've been doing more and more work, I can see more and more clearly some of the really really good parts, whereas for the longest time all I could see was the negative parts, because I was in that fight or flight, you know, freeze mode and that mentality. It was just I felt like survival. And so I blocked out so many of the memories, and I can see even now, like in my current life.

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James Dunn: where

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James Dunn: too often I'll find myself in this survival mode. I'm very good at being able to go ahead and jump into chaos mode, and make decisions very quickly and get through it. But then, when I'm done, I don't remember hardly anything about it, because it was just like you said the brain has shut off, and I survived it. But then I can't remember anything about what happened. I couldn't relay much of the experience. I couldn't really.

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James Dunn: I don't say I couldn't learn so much from it, but I don't get the beauty of the true experience of being there and being a part of whatever it was, and it could have been something truly magical. It could have been something really amazing, but I was just so disconnected from it because my body was in that freaked out mode. And so I love that you brought that up because it is so so powerful. Now, is there a specific habit that you would suggest people if they're trying to get out of that mode, maybe that they could try and use

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah, there's so many different things. I'll tell you the one thing that has worked for me, and then I'll tell you some kind of easy practical ways to do that as well. The thing that has worked for me is eft tapping, which is emotional freedom, technique. I actually have worked with the coach in the last year and a half, and we've been doing a lot of tapping, and what I've learned is the tapping

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: helps my body. Release the fastest, like within 4 to 10 min I can. My body will release, and I feel everything just like open back up. I'm not in that activated state.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: So if you you want to find somebody that will do that with you like, find somebody that will do that with you or let me know, and I will refer you because it is a training that you have to be trained in and have somebody lead you through again. You can look it up, too. You can. There's lots of information on Youtube and

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: whatnot. But I suggest having somebody there because I'm such a physical person that, like I feel the tension. I'm so aware of what's happening in my body that I feel the tension and even just feeling like the tension in my neck. I'm activated. It like throws me.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: And so now that I have a technique that can calm it all down, it's like a game changer, and I feel so confident in that

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: a couple of like practical things that you can do is actually if you have a I face roller.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: So the fullness of the face roller. It shocks your nervous system. It's like Whoa! And it will release that tension right away. And like the nerve, the main nerve in your body, which is the vagus nerve that runs from your brain to your gut that is like integrated closely in your face. And so when you use that face roller, or you could just drink ice water. That will also shock your system

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: so that your body will break

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: the tension, and you will start to regulate

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James Dunn: Nice. Yeah, I love that. I don't have a face roller. But I've yeah.

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James Dunn: few people do it. I've actually done. Yeah. And I've actually what I have done in the past to accomplish the same thing is just get a big bowl, put a little bit of ice in it, put some water in the kitchen, and just go

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James Dunn: get my face in the 1st thing in the morning.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Mentor is, yeah.

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James Dunn: Yeah, I've also done some cold showers. I hate those. Those are terrible.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: There you go!

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James Dunn: But they they do. It is weird, you know. And obviously, you know

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James Dunn: cold lunges. You know, we're a big thing. I'm sure they're still around. But you don't see people doing nearly as much, but that's that's a that's a pretty big thing to try and go

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James Dunn: get you a cold plunge tub, or even to fill your bathtub full of ice and put water in there, but you can. Every single one of us have a shower, I assume, if you listen to this, you probably got access to a shower. You know. Crank that sucker well, and this is part of the whole thing, too, is you don't have to take a full 15, however long you take a shower 1015 min shower of all cold. Take your normal shower. But that last 2 or 3 min, or however long you can handle it. Just crank that sucker over to cold, and it

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James Dunn: gives you that shock, and you're like whoo!

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James Dunn: But it does it. It helps like you, said you.

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James Dunn: It. It almost tenses you so much in a way that then you have to relax yourself through it.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yep.

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James Dunn: Yeah.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: This is you to relax. So, yeah, yeah.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: yeah. And I always like to say, like, take a moment, whether it's 30 seconds. Actually, a really good deep breath is 10 seconds.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: So if that's all you have to help regulate your nervous system, it works.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: And so just know that you can take that moment and take to breathe, or to look outside, or to pet your pet, or to take a drink of water.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Do some something like that to break the cycle that you're kind of in. Because when we're activated, we kind of get in the thought spiral, I know I do. At least my mind starts swirling. And so we need something to break that. So like the ice and the different things we've talked about will help break that so you can come down from it

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James Dunn: And what I think is really important to build on to what you just said. There, you know, talking about just literally taking 10 seconds. There's almost no situation in your life that you can't just stop for 10 seconds

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Exactly.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: You know,

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James Dunn: We? We're afraid that somebody's gonna make fun of us. Somebody's gonna say something, somebody's gonna do whatever. But regardless of what anybody else, if there's even anybody else in the room.

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James Dunn: just stop and breathe, just to go.

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James Dunn: Just do that 2 or 3 times. If somebody else is in the room. They're going to back the fuck up. They're like, Oh, they need a second, you know. They're they're going to see that you need that second to regulate, and that it's okay. But whatever your situation is, take that couple of seconds. Take just that moment to step back and pause and breathe. I caught myself in a situation literally. Just last night I was gonna do an Instagram live, and I was

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James Dunn: I was. Gonna I was gonna talk to the person that's like, let's what time was it? Last night I think 6 30 had that call set up for whatever like 6, 10, I sat down. I was trying to jot out a few questions, because there's a little getting to know you kind of Instagram live kind of thing.

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James Dunn: and

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James Dunn: I I was having a hard time coming up with questions to talk about. And so my mind started spiraling in this like, well, wait a minute. You're going to get on there, and you're going to freeze up, and you're gonna look like an idiot. You're not going to know what to say. And blah blah blah and just and I literally just did what you just talked about where I just stopped. And I was like, just okay, just stop and breathe. It's gonna be okay. And I literally just asked for grace. I said, Spirit, God, universe, because I'm not a religious God, spirit, God, universe! Whoever whatever, where, was out there? Just

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James Dunn: help me get through this. Give me the strength to get through this moment. Help me find the questions. Help me, have, you know, a good conversation and bring some value to people that we're gonna have this conversation in front of. And lo and behold! We got on the call, and had an amazing conversation for almost 30 min, you know, and with no prescript or anything. And so it's literally just having that awareness to catch yourself and recognize what's going on and saying, Okay, let me just step back. It's going to be okay.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah. And so often we feel like we have to push through. Because what if you just push through like, how does that felt? You know.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Because there's so many times I've pushed through in my life, and that's where it led me to burnout. That's why I have a passion about talking about burnout, because there's like an expectation. Sometimes I think in our culture that you just got to push through that you got to grind that you gotta hustle. But the fix, or some of the solution, is what we've talked about is taking that step back

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James Dunn: Yeah.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Taking that deep breath, giving yourself just a little space so your brain can come back down, your body can, so that there is more clarity

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James Dunn: Yeah. And I. And I think that that is one of the biggest challenges, too, is understanding the difference between when it's just a little bit of nerves. You need to go ahead and push through versus when you need to take that step back. And so that's a very nuanced kind of

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James Dunn: you got to make, and that's only going to come from experience when you know like. Oh, come on, just breathe, man, just you know you know better just do this. You got this. It's okay versus like, Oh, this is really something I should freak out about

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Right.

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James Dunn: Is what it is. So all right. Cool, then. My last question for you here, at least of the the original main questions I got for you. So what's 1 piece of advice that you would give somebody who might feel stuck or unsure about their potential

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah, go back to your why?

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Why are you doing what you're doing? Why did you choose to go down the path that you're going down

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: and remember that moment of excitement, of joy. Like for me, I'm a faith led person. So like I remember the moment that God dropped into me you're gonna start your own business.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: I was terrified, but also I remember the joy that came, the passion, the flame, the little flame that was stewing inside of me

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: was there, and I often go back to that moment when I have self doubt or when I'm uncertain, or when I'm just not sure, because I know that I know that I know

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: that this is what I'm supposed to do, and that if I'm called to it, then I will be led through it.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: and it's it's worth the hardship it's worth. The stuckness like are coming out and moving through the stuckness

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: is to like, go back to that. Why, and remember.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: So I think that's just so important. That's been important, my journey as an entrepreneur, because I just. But really I think every month I have a moment where I just want to tear it all down.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Welcome to entrepreneurship.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Right? Exactly.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: And so I do. I go back. I reflect on that. Why, I reflect on the wins. I reflect on the passion that I have like the purpose and impact that I want to make.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: and it helps me move through feeling stuck

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James Dunn: Yeah, so great, so great. I love that Tiffany so wrapped up the initial questions I had for you and this conversation. So where, if people want to connect with you more and find out more about you, where can they connect with you? And what do you have going on? Maybe that you might want to share with people right now.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah, so my Instagram, it's my company's Instagram. It's see the wonder. Llc, so you can find me there. I'm on Facebook, Tiffany leader. It's still my like. It's still my maiden name. So you can. As far as like the Facebook URL. So do you see? Like Tiffany Chen 61 or something like that. It's me.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: But my profile, says Tiffany Leader, you can email me. I have been enjoying conversations with people through email. It's been a little different than just dming. But I've really enjoyed it. So you can email me at tiffanyleader@seethewonder.net.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: And I was like, what do I have going on. I have a lot of things going on, but the main thing that I do want to talk about this is geared towards your female listeners. But I have what's called the take a moment collective. It's a membership for high achieving internal driven women who desire a soul nourishing lifestyle that couples with their internal drive for entrepreneurship, or just their big dreams and goals in your life. I think that we have to find a balance.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Or I like to say rhythm in life to be able to pursue our dreams, but also take care of ourselves, as I've mentioned. That's my story. And so the take a moment. Collective is all about finding the soul nourishing moments, those intentional pauses and resources to be able to help nourish your soul, nourish your body

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: so that you can pursue those dreams so that you aren't going to a place of burnout, that you are aware

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: that you can take that pause, and you have community around

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James Dunn: Good, awesome, all right. Well, let me wrap this up with one final question for you. Here, Tiffany, how do you define? Unstoppable in your own words?

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Gosh! Like I have this like like openness feeling. When I think of them, it's like anything is possible

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James Dunn: Hmm.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: It's like anything is possible, and the road ahead is cleared

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James Dunn: Yeah, I love that

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: And just like, go for it

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James Dunn: Yeah.

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah.

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James Dunn: There we go. Awesome

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Tiffany Leader, LCSW | Burn Out Expert: Yeah.

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James Dunn: Well, definitely, everybody that's watching, listening. If, however, you're enjoying this podcast. Today, go for it. And until next time, my friend, get out, there have an amazing fucking day, and we'll see you next time