SPEAKER_00: Father, we thank you uh for another opportunity uh to spend some time with Robert.
SPEAKER_00: We thank you for the ways that you uh have prepared him and and put uh all these different issues on his heart, the opportunity he has had um to explore the ways that you love us and care us and the good things that you have in store for us to use and understand.
SPEAKER_00: Um and as we have difficulty understanding some of those things and bring some questions today to Robert, we ask uh that you would speak through him.
SPEAKER_00: Um, Father, in your name we pray.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: All right.
SPEAKER_00: So we have been using this QR code.
SPEAKER_00: If you've if you've missed it, we had a technology conference this weekend, and Robert led that technology conference, and it's been great to have him with us.
SPEAKER_00: He also spoke to our men last night as we explored the meekness of masculinity, and it's been a great weekend with Robert.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and we know that a lot of you have questions.
SPEAKER_00: Um and so we wanted to take this hour and this space to be able to bring some of those questions to Robert to kind of maximize our time with him uh for the weekend.
SPEAKER_00: So we got a long list of questions, a really long list.
SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping that we can get through all of these questions, but I I'm feeling pretty doubtful.
SPEAKER_00: So don't be discouraged.
SPEAKER_00: We didn't make it.
SPEAKER_00: Some of them are kind of multiple, so I might ask a question that's similar to yours.
SPEAKER_00: We're trying to condense some of these as much as we can.
SPEAKER_00: Um, but thank you for submitting those questions to us and for being with us this morning.
SPEAKER_00: All right, Robert.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, can redemptive technology be compelling for non-Christians?
SPEAKER_00: What are the merits, limits, and even avenues of that project?
SPEAKER_00: And kind of their intended example is thinking about a partnership with Jonathan Height.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: Uh maybe it's because you all have worked me to death.
SPEAKER_01: What did you say?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I heard the first part.
SPEAKER_00: You said the first part, can it be uh Can redemptive technology be compelling for non-Christians?
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00: And what are the merits and limits or avenues of that project?
SPEAKER_01: What are the merits and limits and avenues of the project of I don't I I'm I'm losing the second half there, but yeah, maybe I'll maybe I'll as I get into this, I'll answer the second half.
SPEAKER_00: I think this person is probably thinking about and looking at what a partnership with Jonathan Hyde might look like.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: I see what you're saying.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: Uh yes, um, I think I think um when uh um I think God's people, wherever whatever cultural moment where God has placed them, there are always going to be unique, um, there are always gonna be unique opportunities for the Christian church to offer a better way, um, depending upon the reigning idols and um and destruction of culture that is taking place.
SPEAKER_01: I argued this weekend that I think uh technology and specifically what technology is doing to us probably represents the number one uh public health crisis of our time.
SPEAKER_01: And so trying to be faithful to the moment where God has us, I would say, as I went through in um as I went through those lectures and freaked everyone out about what is taking place in our society, the flip side of that is that boy, is the market ripe for a community that essentially opens its arms to a society that is lonely, anxious, depressed, cynical, angry, addicted.
SPEAKER_01: All of these things is the market ripe for some community to say, hey, would you would you like to come join us and find a better way, discover a better way?
SPEAKER_01: I think it's an incredibly, incredibly um relevant opportunity uh for uh for the church to say, we're gonna do it differently.
SPEAKER_01: And we know that this is unsustainable for humanity.
SPEAKER_01: We know that it is imploding and it is leading to epidemics in every way.
SPEAKER_01: And the question then becomes who's gonna be there to welcome in those who are suffering through uh the profound devastation of technologies um overtaking our society.
SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's actually an incredible um opportunity uh for our uh neighbors who do not know the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a it's a wide open door, so to speak, uh for them to come and find life in God's kingdom and God's ways.
SPEAKER_01: Uh regarding partnership with scholars like Jonathan Haidt, who are not um who are not Christians, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, we are uh you know, the you're you're a PCA church, you're within the Reformed tradition, which has a robust vision of common grace and um and you know, in the same way that I am just fine partnering with an unbelieving heart surgeon.
SPEAKER_01: Um I am also very comfortable partnering with the research and findings of um an unbelieving sociologist who is raising uh the alarm on these things and and and height is putting out some really good uh practical ideas that I think we can absolutely borrow from.
SPEAKER_01: So yes is the answer to uh both those questions.
SPEAKER_00: Is there any way that we can know from what source AI answers our questions?
SPEAKER_01: Is there any way we can know from what source AI answers our questions?
SPEAKER_01: Well, um in theory, AI uh positions itself as a neutral source that um a neutral source that is just taking the ocean of uh digital information and incredibly efficiently condensing it down to answer your questions.
SPEAKER_01: And so it is positioned as a neutral source, however, um there are guardrails uh built into AI um and those are not neutral.
SPEAKER_01: Um so if you were to you you could get an example would be um I'm trying to think of a non-controversial example.
SPEAKER_01: Um you could get you you could in theory get AI to produce a um a comedic image of Jesus Christ, but if you asked it to do a comedic image of Muhammad, it would not do that.
SPEAKER_01: Um and that's because they have built-in guardrails that um mocking Muhammad is off limits because they say that will lead to um of course Muslims would respond differently to that than Christians would respond uh to um mocking our savior.
SPEAKER_01: Um so yes, there are absolutely built-in worldviews there, but I think probably the biggest worldview that's directing AI in the end will be yours.
SPEAKER_01: So by its design, it is getting to know you, and it's and its goal is to feed you uh what you it's it's it's goal is to create an echo chamber and feed you what it knows you want to hear.
SPEAKER_01: It's not necessarily lying to you, although it does, but um, it will get to know you and it will reinforce what it knows are your presuppositions and your worldview.
SPEAKER_01: It will tailor itself to you.
SPEAKER_01: So there are uh worldview guardrails, depending upon the developer of the AI technology, and all of them are a little bit different.
SPEAKER_01: Uh Grog is is is a little bit freer.
SPEAKER_01: What Elon Musk has produced is a little bit freer than ChatGPT, for example.
SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, um it's it's interested in you, and and that's that's a dangerous thing, as we discussed.
SPEAKER_00: All right, Robert, AI doesn't seem to be going away.
SPEAKER_00: Should churches invest in training and how to use it in their ministries?
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so so you you'll remember if you were at the conference, I said uh that that technology is uh um ethicists view technology as with what they call instrumental value, which means the user determines its ethics, that it's morally neutral.
SPEAKER_01: So, like money um would be something similar.
SPEAKER_01: Um money in itself is not evil, but the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so money is morally neutral.
SPEAKER_01: How you steward and use money well um will determine whether um will determine the virtue of your money.
SPEAKER_01: And so I would apply the same to technology.
SPEAKER_01: I think, and I'm thankful that your church is willing to host the conference today, because I think at the forefront of critical thought and discipleship right now is is training um Christians how to think critically and steward well uh technology's potential for good.
SPEAKER_01: Um I agree with, if you're at the conference, I agree with uh Alull's thesis that the whole of humanity will always bend towards using things toward evil, though it's capable of good.
SPEAKER_01: But I think Christians uh with a redemptive approach to technology should be well trained in learning to use all technology that comes our way um in a redemptive way that that that glorifies God and blesses neighbor.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Robert.
SPEAKER_00: We've got uh a full overflow space.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Uh two KCs that are meaning our overflow space.
SPEAKER_00: We're using technology to technology, yes, in every every way this morning.
SPEAKER_00: QR codes, laptops.
SPEAKER_00: Um half of our young adults are in this space.
SPEAKER_00: The other half of our young adults are in that overflow space, and this kind of touches their realm.
SPEAKER_00: You talked about families in the context of technology boundaries and anonymity.
SPEAKER_00: Um I also want to take a second to just laugh.
SPEAKER_00: We set this QR code up before Robert got here, and we're talking a lot about like the danger even of anonymity in a lot of ways.
SPEAKER_00: And I let all of you submit your questions anonymously.
SPEAKER_00: So here we are.
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you talked about families in the context of technology boundaries and anonymity.
SPEAKER_00: What advice do you have for singles and their 20s?
SPEAKER_00: Anything different?
SPEAKER_01: Uh no, but it it it manifests differently.
SPEAKER_01: So uh young adults, college students, um, young professionals, um, those who are um who are living with roommates, living the celibate life at this point.
SPEAKER_01: Um so everything I said to parents and families and so forth applies to you, but here's here's the key.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and this does come from Jonathan Hyde.
SPEAKER_01: Part of the pressure with um technology is is the the social and the social dynamic of it.
SPEAKER_01: There was a fascinating study uh done that um basically took teenagers and they said and they they gave them a question of uh would you would you give up your cell phone and social, would you give up social media, I think it wasn't your cell phone, would you give up social media for, and I can't remember what the dollar amount was or something like that.
SPEAKER_01: And very few of the teenagers uh were willing to give up social media for this amount of money.
SPEAKER_01: And then the second question of the research said, if all of your peers gave up social media, would you and that and the answers to that basically say I'd do it for free if all my peers gave up.
SPEAKER_01: Meaning if we were in this together, I would happily rid myself of this anxious, burdening, vain addiction.
SPEAKER_01: And the point is, is that um for young adults, college students, and even teenagers, I think it'd be great for teens to do this together.
SPEAKER_01: For y'all to get together and say, hey, instead of each of us responding to this conference and going home and individually trying to implement uh screen time usage boundaries and software monitoring stuff.
SPEAKER_01: What if we as a group were just this counter-cultural young adult community that said, hey, within our friendships, we have all agreed upon this is our plan of usage and this is how we're going to do it.
SPEAKER_01: I think that'd be so cool.
SPEAKER_01: I think you'd I think you're dying to do it.
SPEAKER_01: I think creating an accountability group system where we're in this together, I think your group would grow candidly.
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people would want to join a group like that.
SPEAKER_01: And so I think teens, college students, young professionals, getting together like a family, like parents should get together and discuss what's it going to look like for our family, getting together and says, what should this look like with our peer group?
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
SPEAKER_00: I'm ministering to a college student who's told me that she seeks counsel from Chat GPT.
SPEAKER_00: And Robert, if you were here, explored this a little bit yesterday.
SPEAKER_00: Because she's been hurt by other people and friends.
SPEAKER_00: Any advice on how to acknowledge the brokenness of others and convince her that it's worth going to a real person while acknowledging the pain that she went the pain that she's been through previously.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I'm assuming um I'm assuming chat GPT, she when you say seeking counsel for chat GPT, it means like seeking counsel, not like how do I cook this recipe.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Boy, that's um I get the allure.
SPEAKER_01: Um I get the allure of I've been hurt so much by people that it's just safer to go to my phone.
SPEAKER_01: Um I I would say that um this is really tough to answer um because it's tough to answer anonymously disconnected from somebody's story.
SPEAKER_01: So maybe I will say to that person to go meet with you and and and say, tell me your story.
SPEAKER_01: Um because even even doing this via technology anonymously, I think it hurt more.
SPEAKER_01: Um that that therein lies the problem.
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I'll do my best to answer it as best I can without knowing this person's story.
SPEAKER_01: Um finding finding a safe person, um, an expert person.
SPEAKER_01: And that might not be uh you're you're blessed with a pastoral staff that I think knows their limitations.
SPEAKER_01: Um and what you you could meet with um a pastor or if this person's a female.
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm sure that there's there's people in the church that a pastor, a female in the church that a pastor could recommend is wise, uh caring, loving, safe counsel.
SPEAKER_01: But meeting with somebody and and and they would have they would have the humility to say, uh because of your story, I think this kind of goes beyond the level of my expertise.
SPEAKER_01: May I connect you with someone more capable with more expertise that could help walk you through this?
SPEAKER_01: But I get that people can hurt you, um, but um chat GPT can and will hurt you in ways that I think um you're probably underestimating and and image bearers are still worth it.
SPEAKER_01: Uh as as as as messy and difficult as we can be, image bearers still offer you counsel that chat GPT will never be able to offer you.
SPEAKER_01: And so it's still worth giving people a try.
SPEAKER_01: Uh just maybe ask for help of finding someone who would be safe to process that story with.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Robert.
SPEAKER_00: Author of the question.
SPEAKER_00: If you're out there, give us a call.
SPEAKER_00: We'd love to help you where we can.
SPEAKER_00: All right.
SPEAKER_00: My entire company is run off of social media.
SPEAKER_00: And I've struggled separating my personal life from social media because I'm constantly making content to make sales.
SPEAKER_00: This reality has slowly sucked the life out of me and has become an overdose of inspiration and directions.
SPEAKER_00: Any tips to separating personal life from social media and overconsumption and feeling the need to keep up with trends to sell when it is quite literally my livelihood?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Inevitably, uh when I when I do this conference, inevitably uh there will be people in the audience whose uh vocation is technology and um and it's a challenge.
SPEAKER_01: Um first thing I would say is just that question is so important.
SPEAKER_01: And here's here's why I say that.
SPEAKER_01: Um I cannot tell you how important it is.
SPEAKER_01: Again, we we you know we we in the Reformed tradition have this Kyperian view of of work and life and faith, and that, and that Christians uh need to be um involved and laboring and faithful in every sphere of society.
SPEAKER_01: I cannot tell you how important it is to have Christians in the tech spaces who are not just going along with the flow of society, but are thinking critically, like that question says, through the lens of virtue, is so important.
SPEAKER_01: So I do not discourage Christians from being in the tech uh world.
SPEAKER_01: We need more Christians in that space who are thinking through the lens of Christian virtue.
SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to discourage that.
SPEAKER_01: I want to encourage that.
SPEAKER_01: That being said, um, I think what I'm hearing from that question is because it's my work, it's so easy to bleed into social media addiction and um in personal life.
SPEAKER_01: Um, this comes back to my application um yesterday that I ended with of intentional boundaries.
SPEAKER_01: You're going to have to be intentional about, and I can't uh overstate intentionality, about boundaries of usage outside of work, so to speak.
SPEAKER_01: So my my my job is a perfect example uh because so much of my public theology work is speaking to culture.
SPEAKER_01: A part of my job is I have to be, um I I just simply have to be online following what's uh taking place in our world.
SPEAKER_01: Um but uh just to give you a picture of how intentional I'm talking about with boundaries, I um I literally have um I literally have an appointment on my calendar with Twitter.
SPEAKER_01: Um I have it a an appointment where I say I this is this is my hour to be with social media, to follow things, to bookmark things, to uh you know, put stuff into a file to read later and so forth.
SPEAKER_01: I have an appointment with social media and then um, or X, I guess is what it's called now.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and and when that's over, it's over.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's the level of intentionality I'm talking about when I talk about boundaries.
SPEAKER_01: And so if you're in that field where you're constantly immersed in that, it is even more important for you to be intentional about your personal uh tech and social media usage.
SPEAKER_00: All right.
SPEAKER_00: Two questions kind of wrapped up together here.
SPEAKER_00: Um What tech products do you use and not use?
SPEAKER_00: And to what extent do you use AI to develop your ideas and or organize your thoughts for publishing your books, talks, etc.?
SPEAKER_01: Uh very little.
SPEAKER_01: Uh AI is um the the way I use, I'll do the second one and then I already forgot your first one.
SPEAKER_01: Let me do the second one.
SPEAKER_01: Um AI is a helpful tool uh for editing, but not really.
SPEAKER_01: If you're I mean, it it AI is a helpful tool for editing if if your writings are, you know, memos and emails and stuff.
SPEAKER_01: Like that.
SPEAKER_01: It absolutely can clean things up and catch grammar and typos and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01: But I have never once asked uh asked AI to edit a document and been happy with their edits.
SPEAKER_01: I just don't think it's a good writer.
SPEAKER_01: I think I'm a better writer than ChatGPT at this point.
SPEAKER_01: Uh so I I've never liked the edits.
SPEAKER_01: I it is very helpful to throw a document in there and say, uh give it the command of just check for spelling and grammar, period.
SPEAKER_01: That's all I want you to do.
SPEAKER_01: Look for typos, spelling, grammar.
SPEAKER_01: So I use it for that.
SPEAKER_01: Um and I use it to track down sources, although it's not as reliable as you think.
SPEAKER_01: So um I um I will have a resource or something or a citing or something that that I've like, I remember this, whatever.
SPEAKER_01: And and it's helpful to track down uh those citations and resources, and I will use it for that.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I have never let AI write anything, formulate my thoughts um or anything like that.
SPEAKER_01: Um I just at this point, I just I just feel like um you know, my ability as a writer and researcher and all that is is uh I'm just more satisfied with that than than AI.
SPEAKER_01: What was the first one?
SPEAKER_00: What tech products do you use or not use?
SPEAKER_01: Tech product.
SPEAKER_01: Uh I wonder what tech products they're talking about.
SPEAKER_01: Like are they talking about like safeguard products?
SPEAKER_01: Like what safety products do we use?
SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
SPEAKER_00: We probably have a lot of different avenues we could take.
SPEAKER_00: Um I I would bet that the authors probably curious like what types of AI do you use?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, ChatGPT is is is is the one I'll use um for the stuff that I just referenced.
SPEAKER_01: Um I can't think of uh I can't think of any other tech products I use in my work.
SPEAKER_01: All right, going back, um AI is really helpful for parenting uh homework.
SPEAKER_01: Um and and you laugh, but I kid you not.
SPEAKER_01: So each of my kids have different learning styles.
SPEAKER_01: And um, like my my second son is uh he he he has dyslexia and and highly um um I mean we haven't we haven't we haven't gotten him diagnosed for ADHD only because we know he's got ADHD.
SPEAKER_01: And um and so I can say what I can do is I could say my son has uh so his name's Charlie and and I you know I've I've I've I've told ChatGPT, there's each of my kids as well.
SPEAKER_01: I could tell ChatGPT uh, hey Charlie's got this history test tomorrow.
SPEAKER_01: Here's the study guide.
SPEAKER_01: Um can you suggest, can can you help me, um, can you help me help him study here suggested questions and methods and all stuff?
SPEAKER_01: And it knows Charlie's dyslexia and his proclivity to distraction, and it will say, like, hey, uh uh go through these five questions with Charlie with these kind of picture things, and then give him a five-minute break to run around the house and then do this.
SPEAKER_01: Like it's really good uh with helping my kids with homework.
SPEAKER_01: That's that's honestly, I probably use AI for that the most.
SPEAKER_00: I agree.
SPEAKER_00: That's that's helpful.
SPEAKER_00: I want to circle back to a question, but we've got a question in a similar vein to where you're at, so we'll veer that direction.
SPEAKER_00: Um how to respond to someone who is a believer who's not writing the paper, um, but who is who is, I guess, who is writing the paper, but using AI to edit.
SPEAKER_00: I express still not using the brain that God gave and therefore not activating the learning abilities that God gave.
SPEAKER_00: So writing the paper, using AI to edit the paper.
SPEAKER_00: Um this person seems to be uh hey, expressing you're not using this brain that God gave you.
SPEAKER_01: Um therefore not so AI is not writing the paper for them.
SPEAKER_01: That's what it means.
SPEAKER_01: They're writing the paper and then using AI to edit.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I just I don't know.
SPEAKER_01: Again, these questions are hard because it would just be difficult to like I'd love to know that person.
SPEAKER_01: Um one of my kids, I would really, really, really hesitate to allow the because I know this person, I know this child, and I know uh his unique learning style and where he needs to press through and do harder work.
SPEAKER_01: One of my one of my children, I can see myself allowing um AI to do some editing, um, again, cleaning up work.
SPEAKER_01: I'm not talking about like, here's my paper, now make it look good.
SPEAKER_01: I'm talking about typos and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01: One of my kids, I think it'd be good for that kid to press through and find those things.
SPEAKER_01: Um it's really it's really user-dependent.
SPEAKER_01: Um, the key is is is to just never let your child avoid the rigors of learning because, like I said in the uh in my lecture, um we weren't created just for answers and data.
SPEAKER_01: We were created uh for the process of striving and laboring for knowledge.
SPEAKER_01: And when you remove that, you remove an essential part of knowledge.
SPEAKER_01: Um and so never, ever, ever let AI take away from the striving and sacredness of learning.
SPEAKER_01: Um and that just it's just it's just tough.
SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's it's so it's so unique for each learner.
SPEAKER_01: Um my my dyslexia child, I'm very I give him more leeway with that.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, because just quite frankly, it's just it is it is what would take his brother um an hour to do, takes him hours upon hours to do just because of his brain wiring.
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a great technology to help someone like that.
SPEAKER_01: So all right.
SPEAKER_00: Circling back, uh, just a minute ago, we touched on boundaries and anonymity uh for young adults.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Um we've got a lot of people in the room this morning that weren't able to be here yesterday.
SPEAKER_00: Would you kind of restate your boundaries and anonymity advice for those who weren't able to hear?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: So I I talked a lot.
SPEAKER_01: And then at the end, I said, I know you want practical help.
SPEAKER_01: So let me just kind of sum up all that I said with just two practical applications of how you can do technology well.
SPEAKER_01: And essentially what I said is what is new about modern technology, kind of this new frontier of technology, what is unique and a first for humanity is that it offers us uh boundless, uh, its boundless nature and its anonymous nature.
SPEAKER_01: So when you're talking about information, we now have access to boundless information.
SPEAKER_01: When you talk about relationships and community, we now have access to boundless relationships via social media.
SPEAKER_01: And then we we got into the same with humosexuality.
SPEAKER_01: So there's a boundless nature to modern technology combined with an anonymous nature of tech of modern technology, where um I know you tech folks who who um know this industry well know it's actually not as anonymous as we think it is, but it does give the user this illusion of anonymity.
SPEAKER_01: So I can access this boundless world in an anonymous way.
SPEAKER_01: Those two things are first for humanity.
SPEAKER_01: We used to be limited and we used to be known.
SPEAKER_01: And so my argument was if you are going to use technology well, your practical applications, convictions, commitments need to be directed in those ways.
SPEAKER_01: So you have to intentionally put boundaries around the boundless nature of technology and bring exposure to the anonymous nature of technology.
SPEAKER_01: And there is good technology that will they can help you do that, use technology against itself.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so boundaries and exposure to all of your technology usage will go so far in redeeming uh technology in your life.
SPEAKER_00: All right, we've got one uh from what it looks like to be a teacher.
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to teach teenagers how to actually think, not just how to generate answers.
SPEAKER_00: But right now, AI is doing a lot of the heavy lifting for them, and you can feel the critical thinking getting thinner.
SPEAKER_00: How would you handle that as a teacher?
SPEAKER_00: Would you go back to more handwritten in-class work and keep homework minimal to cut down on AI use?
SPEAKER_00: I'd love uh your real thoughts on what AI should and shouldn't be doing in the classroom.
SPEAKER_01: As a teacher.
SPEAKER_00: As a teacher.
SPEAKER_01: Uh yes.
SPEAKER_01: I think um so our church has a school um as well.
SPEAKER_01: And uh three of my three of my sons attend the school.
SPEAKER_01: And um what I tell what I have told teachers at our school is um of course you don't have control over what they're doing at home with homework and essays and Simons and tests and all that stuff, but you still have control over that classroom.
SPEAKER_01: And now more than ever, we need uh teachers who who appreciate the sacredness of learning and and want to inspire the next generation to love learning.
SPEAKER_01: And so your job has gotten harder, I think, in this way.
SPEAKER_01: Uh teachers, teachers tend to think my job is harder now in ensuring that they're not cheating with AI at home.
SPEAKER_01: And I yeah, I mean, that's a challenge.
SPEAKER_01: But I think really the real challenge now, and I would just say to you educators, the noble, necessary, God-ordained, holy vocation of education is so, I cannot tell you how important your job has always been important.
SPEAKER_01: It's so important now, is that within that classroom, you are you are putting everything you have into teaching those children to love learning and to reimagine um how you're doing education to create this critical thought environment.
SPEAKER_01: To if you want to use AI to do this, you can to use the AI to say, help me think through how to do my classroom in such a way where I don't use you.
SPEAKER_01: But but but but but teachers getting together and say, how how are you inspiring your children in the classroom to love learning?
SPEAKER_01: And then just practical, I think what what is she or she he or she say there?
SPEAKER_01: Do I go to written?
SPEAKER_01: Yes, written stuff, uh, that more than ever.
SPEAKER_01: And and here and and here's what I don't know how this practically works.
SPEAKER_01: I'm probably overwhelming you, like how whatever it is in my classroom.
SPEAKER_01: I think returning to oral exams, which are completely AI proof, but to just say, here's our here's our um, you know, here's the material, here's what we've been studying.
SPEAKER_01: I've found out a way within my classroom to sit down with a student and essentially not here's the question, you answer it, but essentially dialoguing with that student about the material in such a way where you can you can grade them upon their uh not just retention of the information, but their um apprehension and critical thought of the information, bringing back that old school oral exam and sitting, it's terrifying to a student.
SPEAKER_01: That's good for them.
SPEAKER_01: That's good for them because they don't know how to look in a face and talk.
SPEAKER_01: But I'm gonna sit down with students and I will be able to grade them based upon my conversations with them.
SPEAKER_01: I think that'd be a cool um educational change in our new age.
SPEAKER_00: All right, we got a lot of questions um from people about monitoring social media.
SPEAKER_00: But before we go there, you talked a little bit about um the access to social media that your sons have and what you monitor.
SPEAKER_00: Would you just start by talking about that?
SPEAKER_00: And I may insert questions.
SPEAKER_00: Just kind of my family plan.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: So um here's our parenting principle.
SPEAKER_01: Um we never want our children to be the first or the last uh when it comes to technology.
SPEAKER_01: We definitely don't want them to be the first, which they all want to be the first because of social cred.
SPEAKER_01: Um my kids are never the first, but because of the social dynamics, we also we they're not the last to the game.
SPEAKER_01: Um and so uh the way it works is um my nine-year-old has um he's got a uh uh what it's a Garmin watch that he can kind of text.
SPEAKER_01: He can kind of text and send like uh voice memos to us and to other people and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01: It's just this cool, they they there's a ton of cool kids gadgets out there that kind of makes them feel cool, but it's it's not.
SPEAKER_01: Um so when um when um when my when my kids get to uh when my when my children get into that 10 to 10's a little early, uh that that preteen age, they get their first device, um, but it is it is not um it's not connected to it, they don't have a data plan.
SPEAKER_01: So it's just like it's just an iPad with uh without a data plan, or even if they if it's if they want to feel cool because they have a phone, it's a it's a phone without a data plan.
SPEAKER_01: It has no number, it has no um um uh cellular data.
SPEAKER_01: It just has to be connected to Wi-Fi.
SPEAKER_01: And that just allows them to, you know, send iMessages to some buddies and to grandparents.
SPEAKER_01: It allows them to start getting into the training them in the world of apps and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01: And and when I say heavily monitored, I cannot tell you how heavily monitored that is.
SPEAKER_00: Can you explain that just a little bit more?
SPEAKER_00: I guess people want to know.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, I'll just tell you that.
SPEAKER_01: So so um everybody but my 17-year-old, uh, zero screen time during the week.
SPEAKER_01: Um every once in a while, um, you know, homework's done.
SPEAKER_01: Um I I feel like uh they they've sufficiently played outside.
SPEAKER_01: Um they or or maybe it's like kind of a rainy, nasty, gloomy day or something like that.
SPEAKER_01: And the responsibilities are done, their chores are done, all that's done.
SPEAKER_01: Maybe during the week, occasionally I'll approve uh 30 minutes an hour of screen time on their device, but no screen time during the week.
SPEAKER_01: Uh Friday night, Saturday morning.
SPEAKER_01: Uh my nine-year-old uh gets an hour of screen time on so my nine-year-old gets an hour of screen time on Friday and Saturday.
SPEAKER_01: That basically means Friday night and Saturday during the day.
SPEAKER_01: Um my teenager, my my two middle teenagers uh get uh I think it's two hours.
SPEAKER_01: Um and we try to do, as I just said in my sermon, we try to do uh screen-free Sabbaths.
SPEAKER_01: My 17-year-old um for the past uh for the past uh it's been about it's been about uh three months is the first time he has had his phone without uh screen time limits.
SPEAKER_01: Um because he, you know, it it's time.
SPEAKER_01: He I mean he's a he's a grown man.
SPEAKER_01: If y'all saw my son, you'd be like, he he looks older than you.
SPEAKER_01: I mean he's he's huge and and and and yeah, so it's like okay, this is getting weird.
SPEAKER_01: Um he needs he needs it.
SPEAKER_01: So he has no screen time limits on his phone.
SPEAKER_01: He also he also he he goes to school 30 minutes away and he has to drive and he's away all day.
SPEAKER_01: He just he needs it.
SPEAKER_01: Um but just in in his discipleship, it's um in his discipleship, it it's time for us to walk through how to have a phone with no screen limits and um and walk him through that.
SPEAKER_01: So instead of limits, uh, we have a weekly touch-in on his screen time usage numbers.
SPEAKER_01: And um and he knows that um if he if you know I said in the conference that the constant conversation I have with him is are you in control of your phone?
SPEAKER_01: Is your phone in control of you?
SPEAKER_01: And he knows that those screen time um limits are uh it I mean he doesn't have limits.
SPEAKER_01: If his screen time usage is getting out of control, he knows um that's gonna lead to a conversation.
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna identify what apps are doing this.
SPEAKER_01: We even look at like which apps are dinging the most and all of that.
SPEAKER_01: And um and it's just a constant conversation with him.
SPEAKER_01: Um and and and about a month ago, um I said, hey, listen, if you don't get this under control, I'm I know it's humiliating to you that you have to request more screen time from your father when you're out with your friends.
SPEAKER_01: I know that's humiliating for you, but I I've just seen the phone is out of control.
SPEAKER_01: I've seen it out when it shouldn't be out.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I I can put those limits back on and don't think if you I mean you can go to college and pay your own cell phone bill and you can do whatever you want.
SPEAKER_01: But if I keep paying the cell phone bill, I still have the right to do this.
SPEAKER_01: So um my oldest son is a conversation, the others are very rigid um with their screen time usage.
SPEAKER_01: And then of course everything they have is is is monitored with uh covenant eyes software and so forth.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: So maybe surprisingly, maybe not so.
SPEAKER_00: We have we've received this question like five or six different times.
SPEAKER_00: Will there be AI in the new heavens and the new earth?
SPEAKER_00: Six six times.
SPEAKER_00: Six times?
SPEAKER_00: Six times.
SPEAKER_00: It's included in longer questions, but I mean it is the most common theme so far.
SPEAKER_00: AI, new heavens, new earth.
SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
SPEAKER_00: I figured you were probably gonna say that.
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, everybody who asked.
SPEAKER_00: All right.
SPEAKER_01: Um I will say, I have no idea, but I but um I will say, remember my first talk, I said if if if we never fell into sin, it's not like we would not have advanced.
SPEAKER_01: The the entire goal was was holy dominion.
SPEAKER_01: We would have built cities and and industry and economies and technology and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_01: It is interesting.
SPEAKER_01: Um when you look at the story of scripture, it starts in the Garden of Eden.
SPEAKER_01: And then the end of the story, when um at the end of the story, when um when Christ returns and all things are made new, it's not a garden that comes down from heaven, as if, okay, you get a do-over.
SPEAKER_01: It's a holy city, a perfect city.
SPEAKER_01: And so what what seems to unfold in scripture is that, and this is a whole other conference I could do with you on cultural redemption and all this stuff.
SPEAKER_01: What seems to what what seems to come to place is that the end of all of this is what it would have been were it not for the fall.
SPEAKER_01: That that that God's redemption is not you get a redo and we're gonna go back to a garden.
SPEAKER_01: It's we're gonna be surprised to say this is what it should have been all along.
SPEAKER_01: And whether AI is in that city, I have no idea.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for entertaining it.
SPEAKER_00: All right, longer question.
SPEAKER_00: Bear with me for a second.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you mentioned in both the morning and evening sessions on Saturday that God likes you and that God is proud of you.
SPEAKER_00: These are curious comments from you for this reason.
SPEAKER_00: For most of your statements, you're very careful to offer scriptural proof and support.
SPEAKER_00: But for the comments above, if there was no scriptural support, you just put the comments out there.
SPEAKER_00: So this author would like to hear an explanation for how slash why God likes me and that God is proud of me and any scriptural support if you've got.
SPEAKER_01: enough.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that was maybe even more.
SPEAKER_01: Did I say than techno I think it was more to the men last night.
SPEAKER_00: Definitely definitely some of that there but you mentioned yesterday morning.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah to the men last night.
SPEAKER_01: I I wanted I wanted uh men, men, ladies, I know this won't surprise you, but we have fragile egos and um and uh one of the cures to that is is men need to know that God God yes God loves you.
SPEAKER_01: But I said to the men, God likes you.
SPEAKER_01: And and um and God's proud of you.
SPEAKER_01: Scriptural support.
SPEAKER_01: Well I did I felt like I did anchor that in uh biblically in um in uh the divine statement over Jesus this is my beloved son with whom I am well pleased not this is my beloved son with whom I love generically I am pleased with my son and I I said in that talk all that belongs to Jesus is now ours in Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: But you know biblical support for that the divine love is not just this stoic I love you but is a delight in you I would say our Father who art in heaven we you know we get numb to the fact that we call we're numb to it uh other religions are not numb to it we're numb to the fact that we call Almighty God our father um I what father what father does not take delight and not just of course love their children but like their children enjoy their children proud of their children now our we're sinful fathers um and so often our love and delight and pride in our children is conditional but Jesus says if your father who is sinful knows how to give good gifts how much more your heavenly father I think men and and all of us but this is the context last night men who had this insatiable craving for that paternal blessing and delight um oh I cannot wait for all these insecure men to get to heaven and for the heavenly father to say I'm so proud of you.
SPEAKER_01: Well done good and faithful servant so thanks Robert you've got five minutes left four minutes left now um I want to give you some time to wrap up I know there are a couple of times you're like hey we're gonna be able to nuance some things in the QA session um but yeah four minutes I want to turn it over to you um I think I think for this technology conference to be successful and maybe this would be a word to you and and and Jason the the the staff I think for this to actually go somewhere and not just be really interesting theological content that just tickles our ears for a weekend it I think it requires and this goes to Jonathan Haidt I think it's going to require a full on corporate commitment to be in this together.
SPEAKER_01: I think a church has to decide collectively that we are all committed to doing this.
SPEAKER_01: If one family leaves here or or one college student leaves here or young adult leaves here and says I want to make some changes it's just so hard to sustain that unless a church actually says all right we hosted a conference I'm just putting more work on on your on your plate we hosted a conference great how can how can we make it so that this wasn't just a conference that was fun to attend let's get the leadership together and let's creatively think through how this church community is going to be different.
SPEAKER_01: What are commitments that we're willing to make what what accountability measures are we going to be putting into place let's get really intentional and creative on how we can do this together.
SPEAKER_01: I would highly recommend um I would highly recommend specifically uh your the youth director it'd be an awesome youth night to get every parent together and say hey this is not a voluntary come to this youth event this is a mandatory if you're a member of this church parent event and we're gonna get together and we're gonna get all the parents in a room and we're gonna say we're not leaving here until we all agree together on what we're gonna be doing with our children so that our children grow up in a covenantal community where they don't there's not the weird kid with the weird social media restrictions.
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna get together and we're all and you can make them broad so there's room for family dynamics and differences, but we are going to come together as parents and say this is what child the our covenant children are going to grow up with in this church and have that event.
SPEAKER_01: So you got to be in all this together and then I I I didn't plug the last thing I would say is I will just plug the one device that I think is by far the best everyone should go purchase it today.
SPEAKER_01: It is you ask how do you hold these restrictions and these um you know it's so complicated for me to um figure out how to get into an iPhone and set screen time limits and and all this or or I you know I have an Android I don't know how to do that or the best product and it is not even close.
SPEAKER_01: It has been the savior of our home go buy it today is the brick I don't know if you've heard of the brick do you have a brick no but I heard of it.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah I've got a friend that has one get a brick a brick is the greatest invention ever and um I won't explain it to you just go look at it but it is a physical box brick that um you have to tap in order to have access uh to certain so so every one of my kids I have apps on their phones and I basically have ownership over where I say when they brick it, when they touch their phone to the brick it will shut down all of these apps until they brick it again.
SPEAKER_01: And I do it my wife does it we have a brick I brick my phone my wife bricks her phone at a time if a kid is talking back and sassing his mother go brick your phone.
SPEAKER_01: If it is it is the greatest technology invention everybody has to have a brick so that's the most practical thing I would say you the church should buy a bunch of bricks and just hand them out to your congregation.
SPEAKER_00: Go by brick y'all um awesome a couple of closing things one a lot of you submitted questions and we just couldn't get to them um we don't have enough time we could have spent all afternoon with Robert answering your questions but thank you for submitting them thank you for being here if you were not able to be here this weekend um Robert's talks from last night uh and yesterday for the technology conference and also the men's dinner have been posted you can go and listen to those I know that some of you already have but to take it a step further Robert really has condensed a lot of information for us this weekend.
SPEAKER_00: Um you can go to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, things like that.
SPEAKER_00: You can go find links on their website ChristforKentucky.org and um and hear a lot more of this information from him in greater detail.
SPEAKER_00: So it's been great to have him with us uh this weekend thank y'all for coming out