{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":0.54,"endTime":3.82,"body":"A lot of people ask after the five days, What can I eat now?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":3.89,"endTime":5.24,"body":"You know, I feel so much better."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":5.25,"endTime":6.9,"body":"Why did I do what I used to do?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":6.93,"endTime":8.67,"body":"What can I do to improve my health?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":8.7,"endTime":13.35,"body":"Just giving yourself a little break, emotionally, biologically to the food that you're"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":13.41,"endTime":15.81,"body":"addicted to. It could do wonders for you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":21.57,"endTime":25.89,"body":"Hello again and welcome to LLAMA the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":25.89,"endTime":31.05,"body":"I'm Peter Bowes. This is where we explore the science and stories behind human longevity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":31.29,"endTime":37.74,"body":"Now, nine years ago, how time flies, 2013, I took part in a clinical trial at USC, the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":37.74,"endTime":44.28,"body":"University of Southern California, which explored the feasibility and safety of a fasting"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":44.28,"endTime":46.17,"body":"mimicking diet in humans."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":46.17,"endTime":52.2,"body":"It followed studies in rodents that showed that a very low calorie, low protein fasting"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":52.2,"endTime":59.25,"body":"mimicking diet, the FMD improved metabolism and cognitive function, decreased bone loss"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":59.25,"endTime":63.86,"body":"and the incidence of cancer and extended longevity in mice."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":63.86,"endTime":71.1,"body":"In humans, the trial I was part of,three monthly cycles of a five day FMD reduced multiple"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":71.1,"endTime":74.73,"body":"risk factors of aging, the scientists concluded."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":74.94,"endTime":79.5,"body":"Well, fast forward to the present day and the fasting mimicking diet is being used as a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":79.5,"endTime":83.1,"body":"tool to extend human healthspan around the world."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":83.1,"endTime":86.61,"body":"Today we're going to talk about the science and where it stands today."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":86.61,"endTime":88.92,"body":"We've done several interviews with Dr."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":88.92,"endTime":95.46,"body":"Valter Longo, whose original work inspired this research and also the diet that it led"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":95.46,"endTime":97.26,"body":"to. We've also spoken to Dr."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":97.26,"endTime":103.35,"body":"Joseph Antoun, the CEO of L-Nutra, the company which markets the ProLon Diet, as it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":103.35,"endTime":108.54,"body":"known. Those interviews are available at our website, LLAMApodcast.com well - worth a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":108.54,"endTime":112.86,"body":"listen to understand some of the background to what we're about to discuss with Dr."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":112.86,"endTime":114.27,"body":"William Hsu. Dr."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":114.27,"endTime":118.98,"body":"Hsu has been the Chief Medical Officer with L-Nutra since 2019."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":118.98,"endTime":123.18,"body":"He is an endocrinologist and joins us now from Los Angeles."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":123.18,"endTime":126.36,"body":"Dr. Hsu, welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":126.36,"endTime":129.03,"body":"Peter, thank you so much for having me on your show."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":129.03,"endTime":131.01,"body":"It's a real pleasure to talk to you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":131.04,"endTime":135.81,"body":"What brought you to this company and especially what brought you as an endocrinologist to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":135.81,"endTime":136.74,"body":"this company?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":136.74,"endTime":143.91,"body":"Yes. So as an endocrinologist, I took care of patients struggling with lifelong conditions"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":143.91,"endTime":147.96,"body":"such as obesity and diabetes and other conditions."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":147.96,"endTime":153.06,"body":"And one of the biggest challenges I've always had in the clinical practice was the fact"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":153.06,"endTime":157.59,"body":"that most of my patients knew what to do in terms of improving your health."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":157.59,"endTime":160.23,"body":"They knew what they ought to be doing, right."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":160.23,"endTime":164.01,"body":"That is eat better less and exercise more and lose weight."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":164.01,"endTime":169.92,"body":"Right. And these things, I think we've heard enough, but the challenge had always been,"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":170.28,"endTime":173.91,"body":"how do I do it? How do I do it consistently over time?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":174.18,"endTime":181.35,"body":"And so the separation between what we know and our inability to actually do it has always"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":181.35,"endTime":186.39,"body":"plagued my practice for as long as I've practiced, which was about 20 years."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":186.87,"endTime":192.12,"body":"And so when this whole story of fasting broke in the scientific world, I was thinking,"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":192.6,"endTime":198.78,"body":"how come the conventional medical world have never asked and never really look into the"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":198.78,"endTime":200.19,"body":"mechanism of fasting?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":200.4,"endTime":206.16,"body":"And because fasting is such ingrained in every living organism, right from the simple"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":206.16,"endTime":212.94,"body":"single cell organism to complex organisms such as, as humans, this is one of the most"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":212.94,"endTime":215.61,"body":"under tapped interventions."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":215.79,"endTime":221.04,"body":"And so I began to look at the signs and began to talk to my friends, other scholars in"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":221.04,"endTime":227.52,"body":"the area of longevity and health and looked at some of the research in the field."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":227.52,"endTime":229.71,"body":"And it intrigued me."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":229.74,"endTime":235.38,"body":"The evidence that the science and the potential to transform human health, I think, was"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":235.38,"endTime":237.72,"body":"what draw kind of draw me to the company."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":237.72,"endTime":243.36,"body":"And you referred there to the fact that people think about regular diet or traditional"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":243.36,"endTime":248.94,"body":"diets, maybe even yo yo diets when they are tackling a weight problem, they think about"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":248.94,"endTime":254.16,"body":"exercise and those maybe even old fashioned interventions."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":254.49,"endTime":259.32,"body":"I always try to stress from my understanding that they are still good things to do to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":259.32,"endTime":263.88,"body":"eat, let's say a sensible, balanced diet and plenty of exercise."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":263.88,"endTime":265.95,"body":"They can't be underestimated, can they?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":266.16,"endTime":271.07,"body":"You're absolutely right that I think while we know what is absolutely the best for us and"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":271.08,"endTime":276.72,"body":"that is, you know, living a lifestyle that's consistent with regular activities and good"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":276.72,"endTime":279.93,"body":"diets and good intake and more plant based diet."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":279.93,"endTime":284.28,"body":"I think the missing piece is our inability to do it now."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":284.28,"endTime":288.24,"body":"We like to have to do that every single day, of course."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":288.24,"endTime":291.09,"body":"Should we continue to strive towards that goal?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":291.12,"endTime":294.45,"body":"Absolutely. But the reality is far from perfect."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":294.66,"endTime":300.66,"body":"And so is there other interventions that can be easily done and can give you many of the"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":300.69,"endTime":305.77,"body":"of the benefits that we're looking for is sort of the next chapter in science."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":305.79,"endTime":309.84,"body":"Well, as you can probably gather, I've got quite a long term interest in this this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":309.84,"endTime":311.92,"body":"particular this very specific diet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":311.94,"endTime":316.05,"body":"Having been involved in that clinical trial, which I can tell you, I can remember it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":316.05,"endTime":321.36,"body":"vividly, it was quite an experience and it was new for all of us, the scientists involved"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":321.36,"endTime":322.68,"body":"in it at that stage."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":322.68,"endTime":328.74,"body":"And and it's led to something which is really quite big in terms of the expansion of this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":328.74,"endTime":333.87,"body":"diet. I think it might be useful just to go back to basics and explain what the Fasting"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":333.87,"endTime":336.84,"body":"Mimicking Diet FMD is and how it works."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":336.91,"endTime":342.3,"body":"Yeah, so so the Fasting Mimicking Diet is, is you could tell from the name it's about a"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":342.3,"endTime":343.91,"body":"set of meal plans."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":343.92,"endTime":349.74,"body":"It's a five day meal plan that mimics many of the benefits of fasting."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":349.8,"endTime":355.2,"body":"And so it's able to do that because, you know, we think about fasting is really has been"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":355.2,"endTime":360.45,"body":"designed by nature all throughout biological lifeforms because if you look at the"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":360.45,"endTime":367.5,"body":"environment around where we live, most of the days we struggle as well as any living form"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":367.5,"endTime":372.93,"body":"with paucity of these nutrients around us, where there is a lack of nutrients."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":372.93,"endTime":376.08,"body":"Animals have to go out to hunt in order to be fed."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":376.08,"endTime":377.21,"body":"Right. The tigers have to ."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":377.79,"endTime":379.8,"body":".. hunt even single organism."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":379.8,"endTime":382.05,"body":"It doesn't live environmental plenty."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":382.14,"endTime":388.05,"body":"So that means that over time, the each organism has developed a way to cope with times"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":388.05,"endTime":390.42,"body":"when there is no food around."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":390.69,"endTime":396.87,"body":"And the body uses those opportunities actually to recycle some of the older and more"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":396.87,"endTime":402.48,"body":"broken down stuff, a more worn out components of the cells and replace with new ones."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":402.48,"endTime":408.06,"body":"And so the body is actually able to leverage those times as fasting and turn that into a"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":408.06,"endTime":409.68,"body":"survival mechanism."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":410.19,"endTime":416.82,"body":"But the challenge is always that we want to get the maximum level of fasting into the"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":416.82,"endTime":423.03,"body":"body so that we can get most of the effect of it out of fasting, but not too long so that"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":423.03,"endTime":426.72,"body":"most of us can actually do and endure through periods of fasting."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":426.72,"endTime":428.49,"body":"That's always been the struggle there."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":428.49,"endTime":432.48,"body":"Right. We know that if you fast a little longer, you're going to get a little bit better"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":432.48,"endTime":437.37,"body":"benefits. But there is a limit to to how long you can fast and it's difficult to fast."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":437.37,"endTime":442.29,"body":"And therefore, Professor Longo has come up with this intervention called the fasting"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":442.29,"endTime":443.55,"body":"mimicking diet."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":443.55,"endTime":448.8,"body":"It took the understanding of the intersection between nutrients and nutrition, health and"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":448.8,"endTime":455.85,"body":"longevity, and figure out a way to mimic fasting by providing essential nutrients during"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":455.85,"endTime":462.24,"body":"fasting so the body can actually see some food be supported through the fasting period."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":462.24,"endTime":468.06,"body":"At the same time, the cells inside of the body actually would experience fasting as if it"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":468.13,"endTime":469.68,"body":"were water fast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":469.71,"endTime":475.8,"body":"You've just used a number of terms that we hear about a tremendous amount these days."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":475.8,"endTime":480.0,"body":"Longevity, fasting, intermittent fasting is a phrase."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":480.0,"endTime":481.83,"body":"It's an umbrella phrase really, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":481.83,"endTime":484.11,"body":"It doesn't refer to one specific diet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":484.11,"endTime":489.12,"body":"And I wonder sometimes if it is still confusing for people when you're talking about a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":489.12,"endTime":490.41,"body":"fasting mimicking diet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":490.41,"endTime":495.9,"body":"Others talk about an intermittent diet that involves maybe fasting on two days of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":495.9,"endTime":499.86,"body":"week. Others will do a 6.9 time restrictive eating regime."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":499.89,"endTime":501.96,"body":"It gets mighty confusing, doesn't it, Peter?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":501.96,"endTime":503.04,"body":"You're absolutely right."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":503.04,"endTime":505.83,"body":"So let me try to help here."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":506.31,"endTime":509.49,"body":"I think fasting is obviously a continuum, right?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":509.49,"endTime":511.8,"body":"So fasting one day within a day."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":511.92,"endTime":515.13,"body":"But a lot of people do what's called time restricted eating."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":515.13,"endTime":519.69,"body":"Right. That's you're limiting the number of hours you're eating within a certain period"},{"speaker":"of time. For example, if we say 16","startTime":519.69,"endTime":524.91,"body":"8, a lot of times that means 16 hours within the day"},{"speaker":"of time. For example, if we say 16","startTime":524.91,"endTime":529.68,"body":"you will fast and then you would limit the number of hours of consuming your food within"},{"speaker":"of time. For example, if we say 16","startTime":529.68,"endTime":531.84,"body":"8-hour window. So that's 16-8."},{"speaker":"Some people do, you know, 14","startTime":531.84,"endTime":538.26,"body":"10 so that could be 14 hours of fasting, 10 hours of eating"},{"speaker":"Some people do, you know, 14","startTime":538.26,"endTime":543.81,"body":"food. So that is the term that that's been used to describe that kind of pattern that's"},{"speaker":"Some people do, you know, 14","startTime":543.81,"endTime":545.19,"body":"called time restricted eating."},{"speaker":"Some people do, you know, 14","startTime":545.31,"endTime":548.31,"body":"That's the most common type of intermittent fasting."},{"speaker":"Some people do, you know, 14","startTime":548.73,"endTime":553.86,"body":"So intermittent fasting, again, we give definition to it, I mean, by nature is always a"},{"speaker":"Some people do, you know, 14","startTime":553.86,"endTime":554.94,"body":"continuum, right?"},{"speaker":"Some people do, you know, 14","startTime":554.94,"endTime":561.84,"body":"So intermittent fasting, most people really refer to fasting no longer than two days in a"},{"speaker":"Some people do, you know, 14","startTime":561.84,"endTime":566.34,"body":"row. So generally it's a day or less than a day."},{"speaker":"Some people do, you know, 14","startTime":566.34,"endTime":569.13,"body":"Generally, those two days are not consecutive days."},{"speaker":"Some people do, you know, 14","startTime":569.13,"endTime":574.53,"body":"So you could be two days out of the week where you are not eating or eating very little."},{"speaker":"Some people do, you know, 14","startTime":574.53,"endTime":579.39,"body":"And the rest of the week, the rest of the five days you eat, consume a normal diet."},{"speaker":"That's like a 5","startTime":579.39,"endTime":581.25,"body":"2 diet."},{"speaker":"That's like a 5","startTime":581.25,"endTime":584.91,"body":"They all fall under the umbrella of intermittent fasting."},{"speaker":"That's like a 5","startTime":585.39,"endTime":591.27,"body":"There is a distinct artificial category, we call that long, fast, right?"},{"speaker":"That's like a 5","startTime":591.27,"endTime":595.65,"body":"Some people call it periodic fasting, some people call it prolonged fasting."},{"speaker":"That's like a 5","startTime":595.65,"endTime":599.82,"body":"I mean, what they all means, it's more than two days of consecutive fasting."},{"speaker":"That's like a 5","startTime":600.58,"endTime":605.62,"body":"If you think about most of the fasting patterns around the world in history, in different"},{"speaker":"That's like a 5","startTime":605.62,"endTime":609.79,"body":"cultures, in different religions, those are the long fasts, right?"},{"speaker":"That's like a 5","startTime":609.85,"endTime":614.15,"body":"So people will fast for a couple of days for spiritual reasons, for health reasons."},{"speaker":"That's like a 5","startTime":614.17,"endTime":619.48,"body":"They generally involve these longer term fasting, not so much intermittent fasting."},{"speaker":"That's like a 5","startTime":619.48,"endTime":625.0,"body":"So they're and from a scientific angle, we separate the intermittent fasting from the"},{"speaker":"That's like a 5","startTime":625.0,"endTime":629.53,"body":"long fasting because they actually have distinct biologic impacts."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":629.83,"endTime":632.44,"body":"And the use of the word longevity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":632.44,"endTime":634.12,"body":"Is that the ultimate goal?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":634.12,"endTime":639.43,"body":"Whatever the precise regime that people are using, the goal is healthspan, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":639.43,"endTime":644.29,"body":"Which is you could say that is our own personal longevity, how long we're going to live"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":644.29,"endTime":649.15,"body":"and be healthy and active and involved in the world and physically able to do what we"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":649.15,"endTime":649.75,"body":"want to do."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":649.75,"endTime":654.7,"body":"That's absolutely right. I think modern medicine has prolonged the number of years we"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":654.7,"endTime":661.75,"body":"live. But as you and I could tell, as we see the scenes in the hospitals, they're full of"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":661.75,"endTime":665.68,"body":"elderly individuals who are struggling with multiple conditions."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":665.68,"endTime":671.74,"body":"And just give you an example, somebody living with diabetes on average would take eight"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":671.74,"endTime":676.27,"body":"medications. So modern medicine is prolonging life."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":676.27,"endTime":681.88,"body":"But I believe there's something more we can do to support living healthy for a longer"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":681.88,"endTime":682.63,"body":"period of time."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":682.63,"endTime":688.93,"body":"And so when the scientists on the original studies concluded that the FMD reduces multiple"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":688.93,"endTime":691.96,"body":"risk factors of aging, that's really what you're talking about."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":691.96,"endTime":698.35,"body":"Those risk factors are the risk of developing diabetes, heart conditions, cancers, other"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":698.35,"endTime":701.68,"body":"conditions related to old age?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":701.68,"endTime":708.04,"body":"Yeah, I think that's the aspiration of for all of our research is how can we incorporate"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":708.04,"endTime":715.48,"body":"fasting on a regular basis and in the most optimal way so we can give people the chance"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":715.48,"endTime":717.76,"body":"to live long and healthy?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":717.76,"endTime":722.65,"body":"And certainly that's an aspiration that we all have here at the company."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":722.65,"endTime":724.81,"body":"And you mentioned periodic fasting."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":724.81,"endTime":729.88,"body":"And my understanding of periodic fasting as it applies to the fasting mimicking diet is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":729.88,"endTime":732.85,"body":"that it is something you're not necessarily doing all the time."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":732.85,"endTime":735.43,"body":"In fact, explicitly you're not doing it all the time."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":735.43,"endTime":741.49,"body":"You're doing it in five day spells every perhaps three months, six months, nine months,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":741.49,"endTime":743.8,"body":"depending on you as an individual."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":743.8,"endTime":748.3,"body":"What I'm curious to understand is over the years that this diet has been developed, have"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":748.3,"endTime":753.31,"body":"you developed a better understanding of the necessary frequency of this diet for"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":753.31,"endTime":754.24,"body":"different people?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":754.27,"endTime":757.18,"body":"Right. And that's a really insightful question."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":757.42,"endTime":763.21,"body":"If you think about how fasting really improves health, it's really by causing a level of"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":763.21,"endTime":764.44,"body":"stress to the body."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":764.74,"endTime":767.08,"body":"A lot of people think all fasting is just low calories."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":767.08,"endTime":768.31,"body":"You're eating less food."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":768.34,"endTime":770.41,"body":"It's actually very different, right?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":770.41,"endTime":775.27,"body":"If you take the low calories, you have to do it for months to see results because it's"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":775.27,"endTime":779.17,"body":"the accumulation of a calorie deficit that results in weight loss."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":779.17,"endTime":781.75,"body":"Right. And that produces many of the effects."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":782.17,"endTime":788.53,"body":"The mechanism as to how the fasting impacts health is actually through a stress."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":788.53,"endTime":792.58,"body":"And a lot of people say, well, Will, why would you want to have stress in the body?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":793.18,"endTime":795.37,"body":"Actually, stress is could be very good."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":795.37,"endTime":797.08,"body":"For example, what's exercise?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":797.11,"endTime":800.26,"body":"Exercise is the stress onto your cardiovascular system."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":800.26,"endTime":801.88,"body":"It's a stress until muscle."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":801.88,"endTime":806.74,"body":"Without those stress, for example, astronauts in space, they don't have the stress of"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":806.74,"endTime":808.21,"body":"gravity. Guess what?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":808.21,"endTime":810.04,"body":"They're muscle fail to grow."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":810.07,"endTime":812.8,"body":"The muscle actually will become weaker in atrophy."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":813.25,"endTime":818.53,"body":"So stress is actually a natural and necessary part of making us healthy."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":818.53,"endTime":822.67,"body":"So let's take you through sort of the scientific world here."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":822.97,"endTime":825.37,"body":"When a cell - let's take a cell, right?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":825.37,"endTime":828.31,"body":"When you deprive it of nutrients, what does the cell do?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":828.31,"endTime":832.84,"body":"The cell says, hey, you know, all my sensors are telling me there's no glucose, there's"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":832.84,"endTime":834.79,"body":"no protein, there's no food coming in."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":834.79,"endTime":835.96,"body":"I cannot grow."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":835.96,"endTime":839.83,"body":"What does that mean? That means I need to find an energy source."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":839.86,"endTime":840.97,"body":"Where do I find it?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":840.97,"endTime":842.56,"body":"Let me look inside."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":842.68,"endTime":844.48,"body":"Are there things that are a little older?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":845.08,"endTime":846.79,"body":"There are things that are a little bit more worn out."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":846.79,"endTime":851.38,"body":"You know what? I'm going to take them and recycle them to produce to produce new ones,"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":851.38,"endTime":854.47,"body":"because I am not getting any nutrients from the outside."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":854.5,"endTime":857.26,"body":"That survival mechanism right."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":857.26,"endTime":862.96,"body":"In response to the stress of no food, it's actually turns out to be so healthy to the"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":862.96,"endTime":869.77,"body":"cellular renewal that the inventor or the discoverer of this of this pathway, this"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":869.77,"endTime":875.26,"body":"autophagy, what I just mentioned, describing that process, one won the Nobel Prize in"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":875.26,"endTime":882.46,"body":"2016. And so the question here is, how do we leverage that mechanism to allow the stress"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":882.46,"endTime":886.48,"body":"of no calories coming to the body and use it to our advantage?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":886.48,"endTime":889.0,"body":"Now, you certainly don't want to do it all the time."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":889.0,"endTime":893.41,"body":"If no food is good for health, then starvation should have been very good for all, for"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":893.41,"endTime":894.64,"body":"all the humanities."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":894.64,"endTime":897.52,"body":"But in fact it's terrible is detrimental to our health."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":897.52,"endTime":902.41,"body":"So there is a limit and finding that limit to make sure that you don't overdo the"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":902.41,"endTime":908.2,"body":"fasting. But doing it in such a way where it optimizes the stress to the cells can be"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":908.2,"endTime":910.18,"body":"critical to our health and wellness."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":910.21,"endTime":913.87,"body":"That's a very interesting point you make that, you know, we tragically live in a world"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":913.87,"endTime":918.4,"body":"where millions of people are starving and it's a horrendous situation."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":918.4,"endTime":922.78,"body":"Look at what's happening in Afghanistan at the moment with people just simply unable to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":922.78,"endTime":928.12,"body":"get food. And yet here you and I in the Western world, in the developed world, talking"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":928.12,"endTime":931.96,"body":"about an element of, it's not starvation, I think that's the wrong word to use."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":931.99,"endTime":932.44,"body":"That's the wrong word, yes"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":932.71,"endTime":934.03,"body":"...element of fasting."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":934.03,"endTime":939.34,"body":"But it is - it involves not eating as much and it involves perhaps not eating as much to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":939.36,"endTime":943.27,"body":"an extreme for some people over a very limited period of time."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":943.27,"endTime":948.25,"body":"And it's clearly important to make the clear distinction between what is enforced on some"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":948.25,"endTime":952.66,"body":"people simply because they don't have the means and the wherewithal to get food and what"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":952.66,"endTime":955.64,"body":"we can do to just pull back for the benefit of our own health."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":955.66,"endTime":962.17,"body":"Yeah. And so let's, you know, let me use an analogy to help us, our listeners, to"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":962.17,"endTime":964.36,"body":"understand this approach."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":964.69,"endTime":968.17,"body":"Let's recall the days of our our, when we were students."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":968.17,"endTime":971.97,"body":"You know, we were supposed to study for every day."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":971.98,"endTime":973.75,"body":"That's what the teacher always tells us."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":973.75,"endTime":975.76,"body":"You've got to do homework. You've got to study every day."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":976.63,"endTime":981.88,"body":"Peter I'm not sure about you, but I've never studied every day."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":981.88,"endTime":984.35,"body":"I cram before the exam, right?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":984.37,"endTime":985.42,"body":"Yeah, I think we all did that."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":985.42,"endTime":987.37,"body":"Yeah, we all did that. And did we survive?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":987.37,"endTime":988.69,"body":"We survived, right?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":988.99,"endTime":992.38,"body":"Did we learn something? We learn something would have been better if we were to study"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":992.38,"endTime":993.91,"body":"every single day. Yes, for sure."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":993.91,"endTime":999.58,"body":"But that cramming that stress of exam coming up forces us to digest a large amount of"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":999.58,"endTime":1002.07,"body":"information. And we did okay."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1002.1,"endTime":1004.59,"body":"We pass through the these tests."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1005.07,"endTime":1006.36,"body":"Fasting is almost like that."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1006.36,"endTime":1010.23,"body":"Right. So, you know, would have been better if we eat a healthy diet every single day."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1010.23,"endTime":1012.38,"body":"I'll give you $10m."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1012.66,"endTime":1014.61,"body":"Right. If you could do that every single day."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1014.61,"endTime":1016.41,"body":"That is the way we're supposed to do."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1016.71,"endTime":1021.51,"body":"But are there additional things, you know, those cramming the stress caused by the lack"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1021.51,"endTime":1028.05,"body":"of energy? You know, it forces us to really to change our biology from time to time."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1028.05,"endTime":1029.46,"body":"The stress cannot be every day."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1029.46,"endTime":1031.05,"body":"Otherwise we will be overstressed."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1031.05,"endTime":1037.23,"body":"Right. And but when it comes on on a periodic basis, hence the idea of periodic fasting"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1037.59,"endTime":1041.88,"body":"can really introduce another way to boost up our health and wellness."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1042.27,"endTime":1044.07,"body":"Again, please don't take me wrong."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1044.07,"endTime":1048.84,"body":"I've never say that fasting can replace a healthy living style lifestyle."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1048.84,"endTime":1055.08,"body":"No. When when it's incorporated, it can add to the the lifestyle that we we certainly"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1055.08,"endTime":1056.88,"body":"want and can benefit from."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1095.1599999999999,"endTime":1097.98,"body":"This is the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1098.01,"endTime":1100.1699999999998,"body":"Our guest for this episode is Dr."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1100.1699999999998,"endTime":1103.74,"body":"William Hsu, Chief Medical Officer with L-Nutra."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1103.98,"endTime":1107.03,"body":"Let's dig just a little deeper into the science."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1107.04,"endTime":1113.84,"body":"I know one of the effects of this regime and other fasting regimes is lowering of IGF-1"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1113.84,"endTime":1117.6299999999999,"body":"levels, the growth factor, insulin-like growth factor one."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1117.6299999999999,"endTime":1120.34,"body":"And this has been shown in numerous studies."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1120.36,"endTime":1123.03,"body":"Why is that beneficial for us?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1123.45,"endTime":1130.77,"body":"Yeah. So so IGF-1 is a global biomarkers it simply - it's a signal that there isn't too"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1130.77,"endTime":1132.72,"body":"much nutrients floating in the body."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1132.72,"endTime":1137.58,"body":"There's isn't enough pressure to push the cells to grow all the time."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1137.82,"endTime":1145.9199999999998,"body":"In a note, there was a recent study that showed that the correlation of that IGF-1 level"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1146.28,"endTime":1151.6699999999998,"body":"to mortality, which is the length of our life, is actually a U-shaped relationship."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1151.6799999999998,"endTime":1152.81,"body":"Surprise, surprise."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1152.82,"endTime":1155.19,"body":"Right. It's actually everything is like that, right?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1155.19,"endTime":1159.4199999999998,"body":"When your body weight, you know, when when you're too lean, it's not good for your"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1159.4199999999998,"endTime":1162.8,"body":"longevity. When you're too heavy, it's bad for your longevity."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1162.81,"endTime":1165.33,"body":"Same thing with this IGF-1 level."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1165.33,"endTime":1170.79,"body":"So what this is basically is telling us is that, for example, for adults like you and me,"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1170.82,"endTime":1173.8799999999999,"body":"do we need a signal for growth all the time?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1173.8799999999999,"endTime":1177.87,"body":"Do we want the body to be pushed to growing all the time in the growth mode?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1177.8999999999999,"endTime":1179.1,"body":"Probably not."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1179.31,"endTime":1185.34,"body":"If they think about a car, a performance car, a sports car, you're pushing your pedal to"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1185.34,"endTime":1187.23,"body":"the metal all the time."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1187.23,"endTime":1188.4299999999998,"body":"You know what's going to suffer."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1188.4299999999998,"endTime":1191.28,"body":"Your wheels are going to get worn out very quickly."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1191.28,"endTime":1193.02,"body":"The body works like that."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1193.29,"endTime":1195.54,"body":"Yes, it certainly needs to be sustained."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1195.54,"endTime":1198.3899999999999,"body":"It needs to grow, but not growth all the time."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1198.3899999999999,"endTime":1199.62,"body":"We need time, a break."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1199.8899999999999,"endTime":1201.84,"body":"We need time of rejuvenation."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1201.96,"endTime":1208.73,"body":"And that IGF one is that marker, that signal to tell the body, you know, if it's in a"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1208.74,"endTime":1212.7,"body":"good level, that means there are times of growth, there's times of resting ."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1213.69,"endTime":1218.52,"body":".. In our society where we have so much nutrients, we are pushing the body to grow all the"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1218.52,"endTime":1222.57,"body":"time. We're giving all the cells all the signal to grow, grow, grow all the time."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1222.57,"endTime":1227.94,"body":"I think the fear is that too much of that signal is actually not good for our health from"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1227.94,"endTime":1234.1799999999998,"body":"time to time. That break from nutrition, from over nutrition, it's amazing what a little"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1234.1799999999998,"endTime":1235.44,"body":"break can do to our health."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1235.44,"endTime":1239.58,"body":"And of course, growth hormone is crucially important to us as we are growing, as we are"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1239.58,"endTime":1245.1,"body":"babies, as we are young children, those vitally important first few years, and the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1245.1,"endTime":1250.6799999999998,"body":"syndrome known as Laron Syndrome, that affects just a few hundred people around the world"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1250.6799999999998,"endTime":1254.94,"body":"that results in stunted growth because there's a lack of IGF-1."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1254.94,"endTime":1256.3799999999999,"body":"And this is due to a genetic defect."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1256.3799999999999,"endTime":1260.19,"body":"I know this is something that Valter Longo has studied very closely, especially the the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1260.19,"endTime":1263.22,"body":"community of people with Laron Syndrome in Ecuador."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1263.25,"endTime":1268.32,"body":"That is, and I say, a very small community of people, but it does beautifully illustrate"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1268.35,"endTime":1271.8899999999999,"body":"what you're talking about and the role of IGF-1."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1272.1299999999999,"endTime":1276.74,"body":"Yeah, and it's important that much like exercise, right?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1276.78,"endTime":1282.24,"body":"We say exercise is great for our body, but can you imagine you'll have the exercise for"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1282.24,"endTime":1284.79,"body":"24 hours straight with no break."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1285.06,"endTime":1289.31,"body":"It's really the combination of exercise and then rest."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1289.35,"endTime":1294.81,"body":"Same thing is the combination, the proper combination of fasting and a way, right?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1294.81,"endTime":1297.99,"body":"Sort of the fast the feeding and the fasting, right."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1297.99,"endTime":1300.4199999999998,"body":"So the proper nutrition, right."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1300.72,"endTime":1308.85,"body":"following a periodic fast a fasting period that turns out to be really the I believe to"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1308.85,"endTime":1314.3999999999999,"body":"be a magic formula that we've not tapped into in conventional medicine."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1314.44,"endTime":1318.99,"body":"Of course, the thing I didn't mention there about IGF-1 and Laron syndrome is the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1318.99,"endTime":1324.99,"body":"fascinating scenario that as people get older with Laron's syndrome, the incidences of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1324.99,"endTime":1331.3799999999999,"body":"those killer diseases of old age almost don't exist, which is remarkable in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1331.3799999999999,"endTime":1335.28,"body":"science. And there's the link between what we are trying to do, what you're trying to do"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1335.28,"endTime":1342.36,"body":"with the diet by reducing IGF one levels to some extent, and what has been shown in real"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1342.36,"endTime":1346.86,"body":"life away from the diet in very remote communities in Ecuador, what is happening to these"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1346.86,"endTime":1347.6699999999998,"body":"individuals?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1347.6699999999998,"endTime":1348.96,"body":"That's exactly right."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1348.96,"endTime":1356.37,"body":"And I think we have now studied in multiple instances where we've shown multiple cycles"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1356.37,"endTime":1363.48,"body":"of fasting, mimicking diet done monthly for three or four cycles, has many of the same"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1363.48,"endTime":1366.9299999999998,"body":"benefits as being on an everyday, good diet."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1366.9299999999998,"endTime":1373.86,"body":"Again, you know, I'm a 100% proponent of having great diet every single day, but just the"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1373.86,"endTime":1381.1799999999998,"body":"mere introduction of stress brought on by fasting, followed by good eating that really"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1381.1799999999998,"endTime":1387.48,"body":"can push the body into that that growth and break and rest, you know, that combination."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1387.48,"endTime":1389.8799999999999,"body":"It's what I call the union of the body."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1389.8799999999999,"endTime":1397.01,"body":"And I think I think medical science has just begun to look at this and you will see"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1397.01,"endTime":1399.74,"body":"probably a lot more research done now."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1399.8899999999999,"endTime":1401.3899999999999,"body":"A lot of news right now."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1401.4199999999998,"endTime":1404.36,"body":"More on intermittent fasting and more on fasting."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1404.36,"endTime":1408.3799999999999,"body":"I think it's going to be very exciting in the next couple of years to see all the"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1408.3799999999999,"endTime":1411.74,"body":"research in this area and we'll learn a lot more."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1411.77,"endTime":1415.82,"body":"I think it is interesting broadening things out a little bit, coming out hopefully coming"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1415.82,"endTime":1421.25,"body":"out of this pandemic that people are realizing perhaps like never before, the importance"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1421.25,"endTime":1426.08,"body":"of everyday health and the importance of of not having those underlying conditions that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1426.08,"endTime":1428.69,"body":"we know through through many, many tragic examples."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1428.72,"endTime":1433.34,"body":"Oftentimes, those are the people who suffer worse from a virus, and maybe there'll be"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1433.34,"endTime":1435.6699999999998,"body":"another virus in the future that will have similar effects."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1435.6799999999998,"endTime":1441.29,"body":"Absolutely. And unfortunately, I think there was a recent report that 50% of all"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1441.29,"endTime":1447.08,"body":"Americans, or maybe even around the world have gained weight and meaningful amount of"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1447.08,"endTime":1449.29,"body":"weight gain over the pandemic period."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1449.3,"endTime":1451.97,"body":"So it's really a wake up moment for all of us."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1452.0,"endTime":1455.0,"body":"Let me ask you about the diet itself, and this really fascinates me."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1455.03,"endTime":1460.1599999999999,"body":"Having used the diet myself periodically over the last few years, following the initial"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1460.1599999999999,"endTime":1462.8899999999999,"body":"clinical trial and the clinical trial itself was quite intense."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1462.8899999999999,"endTime":1467.33,"body":"It was the fasting mimicking diet every month for three months, which is not something"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1467.33,"endTime":1471.11,"body":"that I've repeated. It's been over a period of several months, but I'm interested in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1471.11,"endTime":1476.1499999999999,"body":"terms of the feedback that you might have had from people around the world in terms of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1476.1499999999999,"endTime":1477.86,"body":"their ability to stick with it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1477.86,"endTime":1482.09,"body":"Because one of the things I found difficult was the sticking with it in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1482.09,"endTime":1486.4099999999999,"body":"mundane nature, relatively mundane nature of the food there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1486.4099999999999,"endTime":1492.8,"body":"Yeah, fairly tasty foods, they're plant based soups and little bars, but my interest was"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1492.8,"endTime":1495.9199999999998,"body":"slightly less each time in terms of diving into the diet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1496.04,"endTime":1501.05,"body":"How have things evolved in that respect to make the diet in terms of being flavorsome"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1501.05,"endTime":1504.62,"body":"food and attractive food perhaps more interesting to people?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1505.31,"endTime":1511.46,"body":"Yeah, I think, you know, the good news is that you don't have to in real life, right?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1511.52,"endTime":1514.85,"body":"You do not need to be on a monthly cycle forever and ever."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1514.85,"endTime":1517.3999999999999,"body":"I think that's never been the intention."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1517.3999999999999,"endTime":1524.1799999999998,"body":"Right. I think in the clinical trial, what we wanted to show is, is that initial in that"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1524.1799999999998,"endTime":1529.37,"body":"initiation period, after three or four months of monthly cycles, a lot of people actually"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1529.37,"endTime":1533.6,"body":"are able to go on to a every three, four months cycle."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1533.6,"endTime":1541.01,"body":"And I often think about that as almost like a a deep clean, almost like a spring clean of"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1541.01,"endTime":1546.02,"body":"the body. Right. So so every weekend we could be cleaning the house, but we would never"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1546.02,"endTime":1552.1699999999998,"body":"take down the curtain. We will probably not shampoo the floor or the carpet, but every so"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1552.1699999999998,"endTime":1555.8,"body":"often, right. Every season is probably a good idea to do that."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1555.9199999999998,"endTime":1565.04,"body":"And and the fast mimicking diet in this case would be the Prolon five day fast can be"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1565.4299999999998,"endTime":1568.19,"body":"very safely done every three or four months."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1568.19,"endTime":1574.85,"body":"And that would take the sort of the mundaneness as in the routineness out of our everyday"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1574.85,"endTime":1580.04,"body":"living. I think in the clinical trials, certainly we want to have that initiation start,"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1580.04,"endTime":1583.4299999999998,"body":"right, especially if you have a specific metabolic goal."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1583.4299999999998,"endTime":1588.8,"body":"That monthly cycle does drive the speed towards that goal."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1588.8,"endTime":1593.84,"body":"But once you're on a maintenance phase, it takes about three or four months every cycle"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1593.84,"endTime":1598.19,"body":"to continue to maintain the IGF-1level and other cellular effects."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1598.19,"endTime":1602.4199999999998,"body":"And I guess the incentive for the vast majority of people is results."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1602.4199999999998,"endTime":1607.6399999999999,"body":"And if people are seeing results from the earlier cycles, perhaps that's incentive enough"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1607.82,"endTime":1609.23,"body":"to do the next five days?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1609.35,"endTime":1612.4099999999999,"body":"I think there you know, the results really come in a couple of forms."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1612.4099999999999,"endTime":1615.71,"body":"You know, one is certainly the IGF-1."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1615.71,"endTime":1617.75,"body":"You don't experience it. That's a laboratory test."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1618.8899999999999,"endTime":1620.0,"body":"That's an objective test."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1620.0,"endTime":1625.22,"body":"But people what experience they experience immediately is they see that much of the"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1625.22,"endTime":1627.26,"body":"weight loss is actually in the trunk area."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1627.26,"endTime":1629.05,"body":"So that's always encouraging, right?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1629.06,"endTime":1633.02,"body":"Knowing our population, this is a fat driven weight loss."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1633.02,"endTime":1638.57,"body":"And so we have now numerous studies to show that when you go through a prolonged fast,"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1638.6,"endTime":1644.6,"body":"you're actually burning those fat in the mid trunk and you're not using your muscle to be"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1644.6,"endTime":1645.8899999999999,"body":"juiced up as a fuel."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1646.07,"endTime":1648.1399999999999,"body":"This is actually very important."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1648.1399999999999,"endTime":1653.36,"body":"A lot of people on a low calorie diet, they actually will lose both muscle mass as well"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1653.36,"endTime":1654.3799999999999,"body":"as fat mass."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1654.3799999999999,"endTime":1658.37,"body":"But because fasting is a stress, it's a stress onto the body."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1658.37,"endTime":1663.47,"body":"So you have increasing growth hormones that actually help to preserve your lean body mass"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1663.47,"endTime":1665.27,"body":"during the five day cycle."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1665.27,"endTime":1669.6499999999999,"body":"And also because it's just five days is not five months of a low calorie diet."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1669.6499999999999,"endTime":1672.9199999999998,"body":"Right. The mechanism is really about the stress."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1673.27,"endTime":1679.07,"body":"You actually preserve your muscle mass and muscle function as opposed to simply be on a"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1679.07,"endTime":1680.1799999999998,"body":"low calorie diet."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1680.33,"endTime":1685.85,"body":"And so there are these experiences people see, they look at their their waist size."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1685.85,"endTime":1689.24,"body":"It gets smaller, they feel strength after they fast."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1689.24,"endTime":1693.83,"body":"And then not to mention, there's a lots of mental health effect."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1693.83,"endTime":1698.98,"body":"Right. So people who've gone through these fasts, I mean, this is why people used to fast"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1698.98,"endTime":1703.71,"body":"for religious reasons or for cultural reasons is because it helped them focus."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1703.72,"endTime":1707.37,"body":"They have the mental health energy, they have the mental energy."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1707.3799999999999,"endTime":1708.7,"body":"There's sort of brain fog."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1708.7,"endTime":1712.46,"body":"They experience a resolution of that brain fog."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1712.48,"endTime":1714.6399999999999,"body":"They feel the sense of energy."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1714.6399999999999,"endTime":1717.28,"body":"And that's what people like feeling."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1717.4299999999998,"endTime":1718.9199999999998,"body":"They like feeling light."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1718.9299999999998,"endTime":1720.28,"body":"They like feeling better."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1720.28,"endTime":1724.3,"body":"And fasting does bring you many of these benefits."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1724.3,"endTime":1726.1,"body":"And that's one of the benefits."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1726.1,"endTime":1731.2,"body":"That's one of the implications of this diet that perhaps takes you by surprise after what"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1731.2,"endTime":1736.06,"body":"about day three, when you begin to feel that sort of mental energy."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1736.33,"endTime":1742.06,"body":"And that's when you're you're using ketone bodies for energy as opposed to glucose"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1742.06,"endTime":1746.47,"body":"because you've you've used up all your glucose and your body is working in a different"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1746.47,"endTime":1750.76,"body":"way. And I always remember the first time that that happened to me, and it's like a light"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1750.76,"endTime":1752.32,"body":"bulb going off to some extent."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1752.32,"endTime":1757.6599999999999,"body":"You're you're in this fasted state, but all of a sudden you're not craving food and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1757.6599999999999,"endTime":1758.5,"body":"you're full of energy."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1758.74,"endTime":1760.4199999999998,"body":"And a lot of people do report."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1760.45,"endTime":1768.1,"body":"I think now now the Prolon we probably have over a million units around the globe now."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1768.1,"endTime":1774.19,"body":"And one of the consistent feedback that we get is people feel that five day prolonged"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1774.19,"endTime":1777.1,"body":"fast changes their relationship to food."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1777.52,"endTime":1783.25,"body":"And that's actually very important because, you know, we're so used to to getting the"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1783.26,"endTime":1784.75,"body":"certain highs from certain food."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1785.02,"endTime":1791.44,"body":"We're addicted to certain flavors, certain composition that five day fast cuts away that"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1791.44,"endTime":1794.86,"body":"connection. It could be a biological connection."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1794.86,"endTime":1797.08,"body":"It could be a emotional connection."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1797.08,"endTime":1802.96,"body":"But a lot of times after five days, a lot of people ask after the five days, what can I"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1802.96,"endTime":1806.62,"body":"eat now? I want to eat better now you know, I feel so much better."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1806.62,"endTime":1808.47,"body":"Why did I do what I used to do?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1808.48,"endTime":1810.34,"body":"What can I do to improve my health?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1810.34,"endTime":1815.4099999999999,"body":"And that's really a testament to just giving yourself a little bit of a break"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1815.6799999999998,"endTime":1819.1599999999999,"body":"emotionally, biologically, to the food that you're addicted to."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1819.31,"endTime":1820.6599999999999,"body":"It could do wonders for you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1820.6599999999999,"endTime":1825.19,"body":"I always remember it had exactly the same effect on me and the five day."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1825.19,"endTime":1827.4099999999999,"body":"It's quite a simple way of living."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1827.4099999999999,"endTime":1832.36,"body":"It's all prepared for you that there isn't much thinking involved because it's all set"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1832.36,"endTime":1837.7,"body":"out there days 1 to 5 and as I say, mostly sort of plant based soups and tiny little"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1837.7,"endTime":1842.56,"body":"bars. What I became increasingly aware of, and this has happened several times over the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1842.56,"endTime":1846.34,"body":"five days, is the food advertising that's all around us."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1846.34,"endTime":1851.29,"body":"And that's impossible to escape because you continue your normal life by en large, maybe"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1851.29,"endTime":1853.84,"body":"reduce your exercise a little bit during those five days."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1853.84,"endTime":1855.07,"body":"But you're still watching television."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1855.07,"endTime":1858.58,"body":"You're still seeing burger and pizza ads on TV."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1858.58,"endTime":1864.46,"body":"And that, for me, was that kind of almost visceral response to just seeing food and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1864.46,"endTime":1871.24,"body":"seeing food that I know is bad for me, that is not healthy and not wanting to eat those"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1871.24,"endTime":1872.02,"body":"foods in the future."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1872.35,"endTime":1879.19,"body":"And coming back to my role as a clinician, I wish many of my patients could get to a stage"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1879.19,"endTime":1885.37,"body":"in their lives or in their health journey to be experiencing that, to say, wow, you know"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1885.37,"endTime":1888.4299999999998,"body":"what, look, I want to I want to eat differently."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1888.61,"endTime":1889.96,"body":"That motivation."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1889.96,"endTime":1894.22,"body":"I mean, I as clinicians, we cannot give patients that motivation."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1894.22,"endTime":1896.11,"body":"That motivation has come from within."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1896.44,"endTime":1902.56,"body":"And it's nothing like you walking through the five days of fast and you experience that"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1902.56,"endTime":1904.72,"body":"mental change, that energy change."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1904.77,"endTime":1909.22,"body":"You experience the lightness, the sense of lightness as you go through a five day fast"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1909.37,"endTime":1914.83,"body":"and reaching the conclusion yourself that, hey, I want to have a different relationship"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1914.83,"endTime":1920.8,"body":"with my food. I think it's every doctor's dream and I think many of our listeners being"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1920.8,"endTime":1928.06,"body":"the people who were struggling to get to a new level of health, and this could be a very"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1928.06,"endTime":1929.59,"body":"interesting tool to consider."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1929.59,"endTime":1933.61,"body":"Let me ask you, Will, just in concluding from everything that you've learned about this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1933.61,"endTime":1938.29,"body":"particular science and obviously your experience as a doctor, how do you live your life"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1938.29,"endTime":1941.02,"body":"every day with your longevity in mind?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1941.44,"endTime":1942.8799999999999,"body":"What do you think about most?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1942.8799999999999,"endTime":1944.6499999999999,"body":"So I thank you for asking that question."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1944.6499999999999,"endTime":1949.96,"body":"I think since I have joined the company, I certainly have changed the different, you"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1949.96,"endTime":1951.3999999999999,"body":"know, my eating pattern."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1951.3999999999999,"endTime":1957.97,"body":"I think there is a place for both intermittent fasts as well as these prolonged fasts."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1958.45,"endTime":1964.72,"body":"You know, I mean, I cannot use a spring cleaning to give me excuses for not tidy up my"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1964.72,"endTime":1967.99,"body":"room on a on a week, you know, a weekly basis."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1968.11,"endTime":1975.52,"body":"And so I do use Prolon once every three months that just for my to maintain a healthy"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1975.52,"endTime":1978.31,"body":"longevity, my own personal goal."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1978.31,"endTime":1984.76,"body":"But at the same time, while I'm not doing these long fasts, I do practice time restricted"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1984.76,"endTime":1990.9099999999999,"body":"eating and generally about I live with my consumption to about 8 to 10 hours a day and"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1990.9099999999999,"endTime":1994.48,"body":"for the rest of the 12 to 16 hours at times."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1994.8999999999999,"endTime":1999.6699999999998,"body":"I generally do not eat, so I give my body a break on a daily basis."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":1999.6699999999998,"endTime":2001.32,"body":"So it's a combination of both."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2001.32,"endTime":2003.7,"body":"And it's getting into a routine to do that, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2003.72,"endTime":2005.3899999999999,"body":"It's something that I do as well."},{"speaker":"Try to stop eating by 6` or 7 p.m., not start again, maybe 8","startTime":2005.3999999999999,"endTime":2011.07,"body":"00 or the next morning."},{"speaker":"Try to stop eating by 6` or 7 p.m., not start again, maybe 8","startTime":2011.34,"endTime":2016.32,"body":"It's a routine to get into, but once you're in the routine and you don't think about it,"},{"speaker":"Try to stop eating by 6` or 7 p.m., not start again, maybe 8","startTime":2016.32,"endTime":2021.1799999999998,"body":"all of a sudden it's part of your lifestyle and it becomes quite easy, perhaps easier"},{"speaker":"Try to stop eating by 6` or 7 p.m., not start again, maybe 8","startTime":2021.1799999999998,"endTime":2022.86,"body":"than you ever thought it could be."},{"speaker":"Try to stop eating by 6` or 7 p.m., not start again, maybe 8","startTime":2022.8899999999999,"endTime":2027.09,"body":"Contemplating this maybe a few years ago, having never heard of time restricted eating,"},{"speaker":"Try to stop eating by 6` or 7 p.m., not start again, maybe 8","startTime":2027.09,"endTime":2030.12,"body":"it actually becomes easy quite quickly if you do it regularly."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":2030.12,"endTime":2036.09,"body":"And a lot of us feel fasting's so far away from me because wow, that's that's like for"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":2036.09,"endTime":2041.34,"body":"those biohackers and no, no, I would say everybody fasts, believe it or not, when we"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":2041.34,"endTime":2042.78,"body":"sleep, we fast."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":2043.29,"endTime":2045.57,"body":"It's just a matter of hours, right?"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":2045.57,"endTime":2048.4500000000003,"body":"All of us, our body all go through fasting period."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":2048.4500000000003,"endTime":2055.8,"body":"So my advice is start today, start with a time restricted eating, you know, after certain"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":2055.8,"endTime":2058.9500000000003,"body":"hours at night, don't put food in your mouth."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":2058.9500000000003,"endTime":2061.4700000000003,"body":"I think that's a relatively easy to do."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":2061.59,"endTime":2064.98,"body":"Realizing that we don't eat always out of hunger."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":2065.34,"endTime":2072.33,"body":"We as human beings, we out of habits, out of emotions, out of our social connections."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":2072.54,"endTime":2077.4900000000002,"body":"And to factor those things into your decision making and just to say, you know, after"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":2077.4900000000002,"endTime":2082.14,"body":"this hour, there's no food, can go a long way to supporting your healthy longevity"},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":2082.53,"endTime":2083.2000000000003,"body":"lifestyle."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2083.2200000000003,"endTime":2087.72,"body":"Well, I think it's really fascinating research, obviously continuing and evolving"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2087.72,"endTime":2089.85,"body":"research. I wish you all the best with it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2089.85,"endTime":2090.81,"body":"Thank you very much indeed."},{"speaker":"William Hsu","startTime":2090.81,"endTime":2091.65,"body":"Thank you, Peter."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2092.13,"endTime":2093.75,"body":"And if you'd like to read more about Dr."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2093.75,"endTime":2098.19,"body":"Hsu's work, the fasting mimicking diet in particular, I'll put some details into the show"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2098.19,"endTime":2099.65,"body":"notes for this episode."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2099.66,"endTime":2103.89,"body":"You'll also find a transcript of this conversation at the Live Long and Master Aging"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2103.89,"endTime":2106.32,"body":"website at LLAMApodcast.com."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2106.32,"endTime":2112.11,"body":"That's double LLAMApodcast.com  And as I mentioned earlier, my interviews with doctors"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2112.11,"endTime":2117.15,"body":"Valter Longo and Joseph Antoun are also available at our website."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2117.15,"endTime":2121.65,"body":"Well worth a listen if you'd like some more background to this subject in social media,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2121.65,"endTime":2123.27,"body":"you'll find us @LLAMApodcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2123.27,"endTime":2128.85,"body":"You can contact me @PeterBowes or email me Peter@LLAMApodcast.com."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2128.85,"endTime":2130.29,"body":"It's always good to hear from you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2130.32,"endTime":2132.39,"body":"This is a Health Span Media production."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2132.39,"endTime":2133.59,"body":"You've already found us."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2133.59,"endTime":2137.34,"body":"If you feel like exploring a different platform, we're available at all of the major"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2137.34,"endTime":2143.52,"body":"podcasting sites, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Pandora and Audible to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2143.52,"endTime":2147.84,"body":"name a few. Wherever you listen to us, do take care and thanks so much for listening."}]}