{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1.14,"endTime":6.9,"body":"When I think about my own attitude to aging and growing older, I'm sure I'm much more"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":6.9,"endTime":10.44,"body":"optimistic about it than I was five or six years ago, because I've seen people just turn"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":10.44,"endTime":14.07,"body":"their lives completely upside down, finding themselves doing things that they hadn't"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":14.07,"endTime":15.93,"body":"imagined for a moment they'd be doing."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":18.18,"endTime":23.03,"body":"Katie Waldegrave is an anti ageism activist and a campaigner."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":23.04,"endTime":29.07,"body":"She co-founded the UK based charity Now Teach, which promotes the employment of older"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":29.07,"endTime":33.48,"body":"people as teachers so their experiences and wisdom can be shared with younger"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":33.48,"endTime":35.34,"body":"generations. Hello again."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":35.34,"endTime":38.4,"body":"Welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":38.4,"endTime":43.95,"body":"I'm Peter Bowes. This is where we explore the science and stories behind human longevity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":44.13,"endTime":49.53,"body":"Now there is clearly much more to living a long, healthy, fulfilling life than diet and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":49.53,"endTime":54.57,"body":"exercise. Two topics that we, I think quite rightly, spend a lot of time on during this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":54.57,"endTime":60.6,"body":"podcast. During this episode, we're going to explore societal attitudes towards growing"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":60.6,"endTime":66.57,"body":"old and how negative impressions of the aging process can start at a very young age and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":66.57,"endTime":69.69,"body":"possibly influence how long we live."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":69.69,"endTime":70.86,"body":"How long you live?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":71.04,"endTime":74.88,"body":"Katie Waldegrave, welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":74.91,"endTime":76.56,"body":"Thank you very much for having me."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":76.56,"endTime":81.3,"body":"And I've never heard myself described as an anti-agist, anti-aging campaigner, but I like"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":81.3,"endTime":82.38,"body":"it. So thank you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":82.83,"endTime":87.36,"body":"Well, I've read a few of the the articles that you've written, and I think that's what you"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":87.36,"endTime":89.34,"body":"do and you do it very effectively."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":89.34,"endTime":89.79,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":89.79,"endTime":94.71,"body":"I just want to start with that final thought from my introduction, that ageist attitudes"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":94.71,"endTime":100.23,"body":"can actually start at a very young age, and there is research to back this up that it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":100.23,"endTime":102.96,"body":"could actually affect how long you live."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":102.99,"endTime":104.01,"body":"It actually does."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":104.01,"endTime":106.26,"body":"And this is what I find totally fascinating."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":106.26,"endTime":111.06,"body":"So as you say, a lot of research showing it starts very, very early on."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":111.42,"endTime":116.43,"body":"I'm interested. I have three small children and I've begun to notice that the six year"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":116.43,"endTime":121.83,"body":"olds already use old as a sort of pejorative, as a kind of."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":121.92,"endTime":123.84,"body":"And I think they get it from books."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":123.84,"endTime":127.77,"body":"You know, there's they're always I mean, you get some wise witches or wise wizards, but a"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":127.77,"endTime":133.42,"body":"lot of older sort of, you know, Roald Dahl and people are full of old is generally bad."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":133.44,"endTime":134.58,"body":"So it does start early."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":134.58,"endTime":138.9,"body":"But just as you say, that is bad for the current older people, if you like."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":139.02,"endTime":146.58,"body":"But overwhelmingly it's also bad for that younger agist person that if we have older if"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":146.58,"endTime":152.22,"body":"we have agist, attitudes, assumptions around decline and sort of things all getting worse"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":152.31,"endTime":155.55,"body":"the older we get, then it's a self-fulfilling prophecy."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":155.55,"endTime":159.87,"body":"And actually as a teacher, which is my background, that makes perfect sense when you"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":159.87,"endTime":165.12,"body":"think about it. The first thing you learn when you learn to teach is how much it's about"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":165.12,"endTime":170.46,"body":"high expectations and how much pupils will fulfill the expectations you place upon them."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":170.46,"endTime":171.96,"body":"So of course, of course."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":171.96,"endTime":176.64,"body":"If we think that we won't take exercise at 70 or whatever it is, we probably won't."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":176.64,"endTime":177.69,"body":"And then we won't be so fit."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":177.69,"endTime":178.89,"body":"And so it all goes."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":178.89,"endTime":184.26,"body":"And it's interesting to me that the more you look into this, the more the the symbols, the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":184.32,"endTime":190.08,"body":"agist symbols are around us, whether it's drawings in children's books, whether it's road"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":190.08,"endTime":193.62,"body":"signs of the older people stooped with a walking stick."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":193.62,"endTime":194.85,"body":"Well, not necessarily."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":194.85,"endTime":198.06,"body":"Are you going to be like that, as you say, 70 or whatever the age is?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":198.06,"endTime":203.49,"body":"And it's clear, it's quite easy to see how these impressions are implanted on on young"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":203.49,"endTime":205.86,"body":"people very, very early on."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":205.86,"endTime":208.32,"body":"And presumably, I don't know, it's like training a dog."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":208.32,"endTime":211.71,"body":"The earlier you teach something, the harder it is for them to forget something."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":211.71,"endTime":213.96,"body":"Those attitudes are going to stay with them for a long time."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":213.96,"endTime":215.55,"body":"I think that's exactly right."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":215.55,"endTime":220.44,"body":"And so I think teaching is a particularly interesting profession for us to be thinking"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":220.44,"endTime":225.42,"body":"about that. I belong to various forums called things like Diverse Ed, which are all very"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":225.42,"endTime":229.77,"body":"important, but I do feel in education at least I don't know if it's the same elsewhere."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":229.77,"endTime":235.47,"body":"That age is the sort of forgotten protected characteristic, if you like, that we we talk"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":235.47,"endTime":240.03,"body":"to young people a lot. I don't know how well we always do it, but about race, about"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":240.03,"endTime":242.01,"body":"gender, about sexuality and stuff."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":242.25,"endTime":247.62,"body":"We are we we understand that we have a big role to play there in in challenging some of"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":247.62,"endTime":253.02,"body":"the stereotypes and some of the sort of egregious comments in society attitudes."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":253.02,"endTime":257.28,"body":"But we we don't really talk about age, I don't think and I don't want to be one of those"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":257.28,"endTime":258.99,"body":"people that adds with every problem."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":258.99,"endTime":260.67,"body":"The answer is, well, make the teachers teach it."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":260.67,"endTime":266.16,"body":"It's not that, but it's that if we, the grownups, are conscious of it and understand it,"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":266.16,"endTime":270.57,"body":"then we must. It is part of our job as parents, as teachers, as everybody else to think"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":270.57,"endTime":273.12,"body":"about, you know, to think about the messages we're giving."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":273.12,"endTime":277.5,"body":"And it's such a peculiar ism in that sense, because, God willing, we'll all get there."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":277.5,"endTime":279.57,"body":"And yet, why are we other our future selves?"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":279.57,"endTime":282.21,"body":"So much is increasingly mysterious, really."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":282.21,"endTime":286.41,"body":"So, Katie, just before we delve into the subject even more, tell me about your own"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":286.41,"endTime":289.38,"body":"background and essentially how you got to this point."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":289.38,"endTime":294.6,"body":"And, and our conversation so far, I think perhaps reminds me to ask you about any"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":294.6,"endTime":299.4,"body":"influences on you as a younger person that maybe have stuck with you that you've with"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":299.4,"endTime":302.6,"body":"experience and wisdom, tried to shake off."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":302.6,"endTime":307.52,"body":"Tried to shake off or or perhaps hold on to as well, is when I thought you were going."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":307.94,"endTime":314.21,"body":"But I think so my, my sort of working background, if you like, is that on leaving"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":314.21,"endTime":319.58,"body":"university? I started teaching with a newly formed organization called Teach First in its"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":319.58,"endTime":322.55,"body":"first year, which is they have the equivalent in America, Teach for America."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":322.55,"endTime":328.61,"body":"It's essentially putting graduates into quite challenging secondary schools to to work"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":328.61,"endTime":333.8,"body":"there. And so I worked for five years, I think, in that school and towards the end of it"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":333.8,"endTime":337.85,"body":"set up a charity called First Story, which works in that sort of type of school, if you"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":337.85,"endTime":339.86,"body":"like, on creativity and literacy."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":339.86,"endTime":344.66,"body":"So I set it up with the writer, the author, William Fiennes, really trying to do the kind"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":344.66,"endTime":348.41,"body":"of thing that happens in some of the most fancy private schools here, but doesn't"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":348.41,"endTime":352.31,"body":"typically happen in what we tend to call challenging schools."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":352.31,"endTime":356.69,"body":"And it was wonderful and it continues and we publish books and it's all about trying to"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":356.69,"endTime":358.01,"body":"find give children a voice."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":358.64,"endTime":362.75,"body":"I then did various things, including moved off to India for a bit and when I came back"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":362.75,"endTime":369.2,"body":"from India I met the writer journalist Lucy Kellaway of the F.T.."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":369.83,"endTime":375.79,"body":"She was at that stage 57, I think, and beginning to think that maybe her days at the F"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":375.86,"endTime":379.7,"body":".T. She loved it in one sense, but actually she also knew she wasn't learning anything"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":379.7,"endTime":385.16,"body":"anymore. She wasn't necessarily getting better at her craft, and she wasn't sure she"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":385.16,"endTime":387.38,"body":"wanted to do it for the next 20 years."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":387.38,"endTime":391.22,"body":"And she was thinking of becoming a teacher and was interested in my experience as someone"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":391.22,"endTime":393.47,"body":"who'd been a teacher but also set up a social enterprise."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":393.47,"endTime":398.66,"body":"I had just had twins a couple of months earlier, so I was just in the market for an adult"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":398.66,"endTime":403.43,"body":"conversation and she came for a coffee in the morning and she stayed all day."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":403.52,"endTime":406.73,"body":"And by the end of that Now Teach, I think, had been born really."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":406.73,"endTime":412.1,"body":"And the idea for Now Teach was simply whether would there be some other crazy people like"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":412.1,"endTime":417.56,"body":"Lucy, who'd had long, successful, interesting careers or who would consider jacking it"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":417.56,"endTime":421.85,"body":"all in starting again, by definition being bad at something for a while, at least because"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":421.85,"endTime":426.89,"body":"you are when you start to teach in the interest of being useful, of returning to the"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":426.89,"endTime":431.93,"body":"community, of working with younger people, of some sense of sort of giving back."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":431.93,"endTime":435.92,"body":"And, you know, these these phrases are hackneyed but but real, I think, as you begin to"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":435.92,"endTime":437.51,"body":"look at the work next."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":437.6,"endTime":439.06,"body":"So we started on a wing and a prayer."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":439.1,"endTime":441.59,"body":"Not sure if anyone else at all would join us."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":441.59,"endTime":444.23,"body":"And we made lots of mistakes along the way."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":444.23,"endTime":448.37,"body":"But I think in that instinct that there would be other people in that boat."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":448.52,"endTime":451.16,"body":"After all it said generation ago, it's sort of 57."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":451.16,"endTime":454.67,"body":"You were probably thinking, well, not that long ago and long to hold on until I sort of"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":454.67,"endTime":455.96,"body":"golf or whatever you do."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":455.96,"endTime":461.06,"body":"And now at 57, that's neither desirable nor feasible for lots of reasons."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":461.06,"endTime":468.53,"body":"And so we've now got this this drive of 500 teachers will be closer to 700 by September."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":468.53,"endTime":474.47,"body":"And it's been incredibly humbling and a sort of fascinating experiment in a way to do"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":474.47,"endTime":479.45,"body":"that. So that's that's now teach and what I guess I've been focusing on doing for the"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":479.45,"endTime":479.46,"body":"last, well, six years because the twins are now six."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":483.8,"endTime":488.12,"body":"It's fascinating. And what I'm curious about is and I'm in that age group, I just turned"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":488.12,"endTime":492.26,"body":"60 a few months ago and a lot of people in my profession, the broadcasting and journalism"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":492.26,"endTime":497.93,"body":"profession, they get to this age and might have spent 30 years with whatever broadcasting"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":497.93,"endTime":503.09,"body":"organization and decide that, as you've eloquently described, now isn't the time for"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":503.09,"endTime":505.94,"body":"retirement. For a lot of people, it is time to do something."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":505.94,"endTime":510.68,"body":"But taking that leap involves a leap of faith for a lot of people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":510.68,"endTime":515.33,"body":"It involves a brave decision to turn their back on what they've been doing and to try"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":515.33,"endTime":518.51,"body":"something new. So I'm just wondering, from the people you've spoken to that have done"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":518.51,"endTime":520.4,"body":"this, what is the thought process?"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":520.4,"endTime":526.16,"body":"Well, I think for a lot of people, there's been a niggling idea of teaching or changing"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":526.16,"endTime":528.38,"body":"more broadly for a long time."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":528.59,"endTime":532.46,"body":"And I think, too, that it often takes a life event."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":532.46,"endTime":536.53,"body":"So people might have had that thought they might even have semi seriously investigated it"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":536.54,"endTime":539.87,"body":"at some point and then usually."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":540.78,"endTime":545.99,"body":"Yeah. I think I would say usually there's something like a parent dying is quite often a"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":546.0,"endTime":549.24,"body":"trigger. Children moving out, perhaps a divorce."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":550.14,"endTime":556.8,"body":"Lucy had all three of those actually within sort of swift succession and perhaps just"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":556.8,"endTime":561.93,"body":"make people think with a slightly greater degree of urgency that this is the time."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":561.93,"endTime":563.72,"body":"You know, it isn't going to go on forever."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":563.73,"endTime":569.35,"body":"Or indeed that if it's, you know, children moving out say that actually, you know,"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":569.37,"endTime":573.93,"body":"weirdly, you suddenly become a little more time and perhaps even cash rich then you've"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":573.93,"endTime":575.79,"body":"been for, you know, 20 years."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":575.79,"endTime":580.77,"body":"And that makes you reassess what you want to do with that time as well."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":580.77,"endTime":585.66,"body":"So that is often a kind of there's often a more personal, immediate trigger to something"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":585.66,"endTime":591.21,"body":"that kind of has been rumbling along underneath for a while can be dissatisfaction."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":591.21,"endTime":596.01,"body":"I think more often it's less dissatisfaction with what everyone is doing."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":596.01,"endTime":600.9,"body":"But but the sense of not learning and not getting better, I think matters sort of not"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":600.9,"endTime":605.88,"body":"looking ahead with excitement or indeed with anxiety, which is part of both of those"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":605.88,"endTime":606.69,"body":"things, I think."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":606.69,"endTime":611.85,"body":"And what do you say to people who might have a yearning to to start learning again, but"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":611.85,"endTime":614.61,"body":"also a fear of starting to learn again?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":614.61,"endTime":620.01,"body":"Because learning for a lot of us was 30 or 40 years ago in school and in college or"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":620.01,"endTime":622.8,"body":"university. And it wasn't always a pleasant experience."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":622.8,"endTime":624.54,"body":"It was for some of that time."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":624.54,"endTime":627.57,"body":"It was just something you got through to get on with your career and you couldn't wait"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":627.57,"endTime":632.07,"body":"for it to be over. And I think that feeling might stay with you, even though you feel"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":632.07,"endTime":633.69,"body":"like you want to do something new."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":633.69,"endTime":636.54,"body":"You want to get those, you want to glean that knowledge."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":636.54,"endTime":640.41,"body":"But something might be in the background saying, hang on a minute."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":640.41,"endTime":645.96,"body":"I think the fear is very real, even if even if perhaps you quite enjoyed learning then or"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":645.96,"endTime":647.34,"body":"enjoyed formal education."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":647.34,"endTime":650.01,"body":"And yes, certainly if you if you didn't."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":650.28,"endTime":655.5,"body":"Having said that, all now teachers, I think, without exception, would say that there is"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":655.5,"endTime":659.85,"body":"something rejuvenating as a word that comes up a lot, which is odd because it's"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":659.85,"endTime":662.64,"body":"exhausting and tiring and all the rest of it."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":662.88,"endTime":667.26,"body":"But some of those things that we actually we associate with being young because there are"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":667.26,"endTime":672.51,"body":"things we do when we're we're young, is to is to be learning, is to be afraid."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":672.51,"endTime":676.38,"body":"It's to be not sure we're going to get it right that that sort of part and parcel of"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":676.38,"endTime":681.6,"body":"being young and actually, weirdly, perhaps counterintuitively, it's something people"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":681.6,"endTime":686.28,"body":"quite relish experiencing again, because they haven't done it for some time."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":686.28,"endTime":690.96,"body":"And in a funny way, although it is tough being in that position when you're older and"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":690.96,"endTime":695.79,"body":"you've expected to become you know, you're very good at what you do when you've been used"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":695.79,"endTime":698.85,"body":"to being that person who knows exactly what they're doing and can explain to incompetent"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":698.85,"endTime":702.72,"body":"people like me how to put the microphone and all the rest of it to not be good at things"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":702.72,"endTime":710.34,"body":"tt's hard, but there is also a way in which you have a greater confidence than you did"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":710.34,"endTime":712.56,"body":"when you were 21 and proving yourself."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":712.56,"endTime":714.0,"body":"You know, you can do this."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":714.0,"endTime":719.1,"body":"You don't quite judge yourself entirely on whether or not you can do the next thing."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":719.1,"endTime":722.46,"body":"And so it's a different kind of fear."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":722.46,"endTime":725.4,"body":"But people, you know, I have been endlessly humbled."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":725.4,"endTime":729.51,"body":"We weren't honestly sure we would find people who thought this was a good plan."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":729.51,"endTime":731.58,"body":"But I think there's something really exciting."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":731.58,"endTime":738.15,"body":"And when I think about my own attitude to aging and growing older, I'm sure I'm much more"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":738.15,"endTime":742.17,"body":"optimistic about it than I was five or six years ago, because I've seen people just turn"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":742.17,"endTime":746.58,"body":"their lives completely upside down and find those doing things that they hadn't imagine"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":746.58,"endTime":748.14,"body":"for a moment they'd be doing."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":748.23,"endTime":750.57,"body":"That's energizing and exciting in itself."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":750.57,"endTime":754.62,"body":"And is this something invigorating about the process of learning?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":754.62,"endTime":759.51,"body":"Of course, by its very nature, you will be learning potentially alongside people who are"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":759.51,"endTime":761.67,"body":"significantly younger than yourself."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":761.67,"endTime":765.66,"body":"Is there something invigorating about the generations mixing together like that?"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":765.66,"endTime":769.98,"body":"Yeah, and as you imply, it's a two way process or three way if you include the sort of the"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":769.98,"endTime":774.39,"body":"younger teachers and the younger students, you know, it's we don't do enough of that."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":774.39,"endTime":776.7,"body":"And I think probably COVID exacerbated that."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":776.88,"endTime":782.07,"body":"But it feels like that's been a trend over many, many years is to split the generations"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":782.28,"endTime":785.47,"body":"more than than would have been the case in the past with more."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":785.47,"endTime":788.82,"body":"You know my husband's Indian. I said we lived in India for a while and it is much more"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":788.82,"endTime":792.39,"body":"common to have multigenerational families at home and so on there."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":792.54,"endTime":797.01,"body":"We don't have as much as that and I think that's where the kind of works both ways,"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":797.01,"endTime":799.74,"body":"doesn't it? Assumptions about what young people are like and assumptions are what old"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":799.74,"endTime":803.76,"body":"people are like are only really possible when you don't know that many of them because"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":803.76,"endTime":805.41,"body":"because you can't generalize about everyone."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":805.56,"endTime":810.06,"body":"So, yes, I think it works both ways that people get great depth."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":810.06,"endTime":814.56,"body":"And one of the things I've loved is hearing stories of how, you know, whilst there may be"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":814.56,"endTime":820.68,"body":"a 26 year old teaching the now teacher how to teach and getting them reengaging with the"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":820.68,"endTime":825.93,"body":"science curriculum or whatever it is and being the absolute expert there, they may at one"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":825.93,"endTime":830.28,"body":"at the same time be being guided through why it is quite important to sign up for a"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":830.28,"endTime":836.76,"body":"pension and how they could perhaps be thinking about their own career or you know, how to"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":836.76,"endTime":839.84,"body":"sign up for a mortgage, you know, life stuff that is."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":840.26,"endTime":844.43,"body":"And I love that those kind of shared learnings that will happen inadvertently."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":844.43,"endTime":845.81,"body":"Nothing to do with teaching really"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":876.34,"endTime":876.35,"body":"You're listening to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast. Our guest is Katie Waldegrave,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":876.35,"endTime":876.36,"body":"co-founder of the UK charity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":876.36,"endTime":876.37,"body":"Now Teach, just picking up the thought and the strand of our conversation just now."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":876.37,"endTime":876.38,"body":"I think one of the great attributes of older people is the wisdom of having lived for a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":876.38,"endTime":876.39,"body":"long time for several decades."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":876.39,"endTime":876.4,"body":"That presumably is a great asset when you decide that you want to do something very"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":876.4,"endTime":876.41,"body":"significantly new and learn a new craft."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":876.41,"endTime":877.57,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":877.89,"endTime":880.36,"body":"Not least, I suppose, just the sense of time."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":880.36,"endTime":882.33,"body":"I mean, I remember start learning to teach."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":882.34,"endTime":884.83,"body":"I think I must have cried every day that first year."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":884.83,"endTime":889.9,"body":"And it also felt like it was sort of all the world would ever be and that it would go on"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":889.9,"endTime":892.48,"body":"forever in some way that I never articulated to myself."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":892.48,"endTime":897.76,"body":"And I think when you're a little older, you've, you know, a year it will pass."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":897.76,"endTime":902.23,"body":"There's something about kind of keeping things in perspective in a different way, knowing"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":929.21,"endTime":934.22,"body":"that things change, knowing what you can hope for, that just brings a different a"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":934.22,"endTime":936.03,"body":"different way of perceiving all of that."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":936.0500000000001,"endTime":942.11,"body":"But absolutely, you form, you know, it's a slightly a thing that bugs me as a wise old."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":942.11,"endTime":946.4,"body":"People are all wise and some wise young people and some very foolish old people."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":946.4,"endTime":951.65,"body":"But you definitely, you know, if you select the right ones anyway, the Right Now teachers"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":951.65,"endTime":955.58,"body":"there's something that is gained about the way you relate to people."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":955.58,"endTime":960.89,"body":"At the very least, you know, you form a different type of relationship and in a way that"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":960.89,"endTime":964.34,"body":"is quite hard to articulate, but also in some ways that are very simple to articulate in"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":964.34,"endTime":969.71,"body":"that school context. You know, when I started teaching, I was teaching 11 to 18 year olds"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":969.71,"endTime":970.94,"body":"and I was 22."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":970.94,"endTime":973.5500000000001,"body":"So I was four years older than these children."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":973.76,"endTime":976.97,"body":"And that is quite complicated in obvious ways."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":976.97,"endTime":980.9,"body":"Whereas if you are 50 something teaching an 18 year old and you probably had children"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":980.9,"endTime":984.44,"body":"yourself or likely had children, so you're going to relate in a very, very different way."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":984.44,"endTime":989.12,"body":"And likewise their parents, who to me were sort of terrifyingly old, you know, 45 year"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":989.12,"endTime":991.76,"body":"olds or something, are also quite young."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":991.82,"endTime":996.2,"body":"And I would try and sound very authoritative and say, oh, well, the thing is very"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":996.2,"endTime":999.6800000000001,"body":"important that, you know, Rashmi must do such and such and such."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":999.6800000000001,"endTime":1002.89,"body":"And actually, I had no idea."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1003.22,"endTime":1007.0600000000001,"body":"And I think as a parent or anyway, doesn't matter about a parent, an older person who is"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1007.0600000000001,"endTime":1011.5600000000001,"body":"engaged with the world and younger people, you talk to parents differently."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1011.5600000000001,"endTime":1015.3100000000001,"body":"You you can sort of see it from their their side."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1015.3100000000001,"endTime":1019.0,"body":"You don't go into a parent's evening terrified of all these grown ups who are going to be"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1019.0,"endTime":1023.14,"body":"cross. And so but it just it just is so different to my experience of training to teach."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1023.14,"endTime":1026.1399999999999,"body":"And I think I would have valued training alongside a Now Teacher."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1026.1399999999999,"endTime":1030.01,"body":"Yeah, it's really interesting just, just hearing you talk there, thinking back to when I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1030.01,"endTime":1034.27,"body":"was at school and most of my teachers were probably quite young, I mean, significantly"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1034.27,"endTime":1036.43,"body":"younger than I am now."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1036.43,"endTime":1041.08,"body":"And clearly, therefore, they're going to relate to those people who are probably old"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1041.08,"endTime":1044.74,"body":"enough to be their grandparents now teaching them in the classroom."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1044.75,"endTime":1048.22,"body":"Have you, in terms of the teachers that you've worked with that have gone through this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1048.22,"endTime":1054.6100000000001,"body":"process, have you heard any sort of anecdotal stories about those relationships between"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1054.6100000000001,"endTime":1058.1100000000001,"body":"students and teachers that are significantly different?"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1058.1200000000001,"endTime":1062.71,"body":"Well, I think one very simple thing, which is, I suppose, linked to age but not only age,"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1062.71,"endTime":1067.48,"body":"it is the way in which now teachers talk about the things they did before."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1067.51,"endTime":1069.43,"body":"That is interesting to children."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1069.43,"endTime":1071.56,"body":"You know, the best will in the world."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1071.56,"endTime":1077.23,"body":"I at 22 couldn't have talked about anything from, you know, whether it's the experience"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1077.23,"endTime":1082.84,"body":"of having a children or, you know, or traveling or the work I had done or the jobs, the"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1082.84,"endTime":1087.49,"body":"careers. And when it came to thinking about work experience and all that kind of stuff, I"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1087.49,"endTime":1090.16,"body":"wouldn't have known really where, where to begin."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1090.16,"endTime":1095.65,"body":"So I think, you know, there's a lot of just very tangibly different things that you"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1095.65,"endTime":1100.81,"body":"bring. And I think also the funny thing is, of course, I remember when I started to teach"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1100.81,"endTime":1102.85,"body":"somebody, a student saying to me, how old are you?"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1102.88,"endTime":1104.82,"body":"She must have been in year seven of 11."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1104.83,"endTime":1106.3,"body":"I said, well, guess."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1106.3,"endTime":1107.35,"body":"Stupid thing to say."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1107.5,"endTime":1112.3600000000001,"body":"And you know, the guess is ranged from 72 to whatever and I was 22."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1112.6,"endTime":1115.21,"body":"The children tend to have fairly little idea."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1115.24,"endTime":1120.52,"body":"Like you say, your teachers just seemed all they seem to be fairly kind of unable to"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1120.52,"endTime":1122.38,"body":"distinguish between maybe the older ones."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1122.38,"endTime":1124.27,"body":"But, you know, the older children can."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1124.27,"endTime":1130.03,"body":"But I think amongst staff there is something kind of wonderful, but not least because if"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1130.03,"endTime":1137.83,"body":"you go from being a sort of acclaimed journalist, whatever you are to a trainee teacher"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1137.83,"endTime":1143.38,"body":"who's clearly not very good at what they're doing, that's immensely flattering as a start"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1143.68,"endTime":1149.29,"body":"for somebody, you know, to think, actually, this job I'm doing and I'm now quite good at"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1149.29,"endTime":1155.02,"body":"age 30, this person thinks is important and interesting and valuable enough to to give up"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1155.02,"endTime":1161.44,"body":"probably salary, certainly ease and degree of autonomy to do because it's that important."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1161.44,"endTime":1164.44,"body":"So I think that's powerful and it doesn't always work."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1164.44,"endTime":1169.45,"body":"We've certainly had Now Teachers who've had to learn to kind of in those first couple of"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1169.45,"endTime":1174.88,"body":"years, not not necessarily give too much advice about the way the management might be"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1174.88,"endTime":1176.02,"body":"wrong, which it might be."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1176.02,"endTime":1178.09,"body":"But, you know, there's a kind of degree of."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1178.72,"endTime":1179.6,"body":"Not be too outspoken."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1179.64,"endTime":1183.73,"body":"To us, but it doesn't you know, it's not always perfect, but there is often something kind"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1183.73,"endTime":1187.8700000000001,"body":"of amazing in, for example, a relationship between a now teacher and a head teacher where"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1187.8700000000001,"endTime":1193.6,"body":"perhaps by age and stage, you know, by age, rather, they are very close, perhaps, but by"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1193.6,"endTime":1195.34,"body":"stage, top and bottom."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1195.49,"endTime":1199.63,"body":"But it almost can give space for a different kind of relationship that the head teacher"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1199.63,"endTime":1201.7,"body":"can sort of almost use as a sounding board."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1201.7,"endTime":1203.17,"body":"They're not threatening. They don't want the job."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1203.17,"endTime":1206.08,"body":"They tend not to want to rise sort of up in a typical fashion."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1206.08,"endTime":1207.46,"body":"They've done they've done that."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1207.46,"endTime":1209.14,"body":"They're here to be classroom teachers."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1209.14,"endTime":1211.15,"body":"And so that can be a very valuable relationship I think."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1211.15,"endTime":1215.8,"body":"You're obviously talking about teaching, but the obvious extension to this is what about"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1215.8,"endTime":1217.19,"body":"Now Write."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1217.19,"endTime":1219.01,"body":"Now Professional Gardener."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1219.01,"endTime":1220.3,"body":"Now Compute."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1220.3,"endTime":1224.53,"body":"I mean, it could apply to not every profession for probably physical reasons, but"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1224.53,"endTime":1224.8,"body":"certainly many."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1224.8,"endTime":1229.57,"body":"You know it's funny you should say that because we've just been toying with this idea."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1229.57,"endTime":1233.17,"body":"Well, there's two things. One is a sort of not temporarily, at least called."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1233.17,"endTime":1238.57,"body":"Now what, Twitch? Which wouldn't in my case be about things like now garden, though I"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1238.57,"endTime":1240.01,"body":"think it's a wonderful concept."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1240.01,"endTime":1244.93,"body":"But thinking about the sort of frontline public sector roles, you know, we are in a"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1244.93,"endTime":1249.6100000000001,"body":"period of huge sort of strife in all kinds of ways."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1249.6100000000001,"endTime":1253.54,"body":"As everybody knows, the economy is declining recruitment crisis in so many of these"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1253.54,"endTime":1256.63,"body":"public sector roles that are completely critical."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1256.63,"endTime":1262.24,"body":"And we have meanwhile, you know, the missing million people falling out of the work place"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1262.24,"endTime":1266.26,"body":"in this country at least, and I imagine similarly in the US and elsewhere."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1267.01,"endTime":1270.64,"body":"And it's a very strange time in that sense."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1270.64,"endTime":1275.02,"body":"Meanwhile, it feels to me that with things like Ukraine and even COVID, there's been this"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1275.02,"endTime":1280.33,"body":"sort of renewed sense of maybe the importance of community and how we do need to be"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1280.33,"endTime":1284.56,"body":"pulling together, not perhaps from the top, but from in a more grassroots way."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1284.56,"endTime":1289.3600000000001,"body":"So I feel like my hope is that Now Teach showed that people would do this entirely"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1289.3600000000001,"endTime":1296.44,"body":"illogical thing and quit sensible, well-paid jobs, often to do something very, very hard,"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1296.44,"endTime":1298.1200000000001,"body":"not very well paid, at least at the beginning."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1298.1200000000001,"endTime":1303.43,"body":"And so I'm just working on the idea of launching Now Foster."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1303.43,"endTime":1306.82,"body":"We have a huge issue here with not being able to recruit enough foster carers, and I think"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1306.82,"endTime":1311.89,"body":"one could look at it in a similar way and say, you know, perhaps that gap between"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1311.89,"endTime":1316.82,"body":"children living home and grandchildren, that's a great moment to potentially foster."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1316.99,"endTime":1323.38,"body":"Just just to focus in on the precise role of Now Teach - you are there to advise people to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1323.38,"endTime":1325.6,"body":"encourage people to make the connections?"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1325.6,"endTime":1326.6200000000001,"body":"Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1326.6200000000001,"endTime":1332.73,"body":"So our job is to attract them to it, essentially to create the market, if you like, that"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1332.77,"endTime":1334.8700000000001,"body":"it might be a thing worth considering."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1334.8700000000001,"endTime":1336.4,"body":"And lots of people have considered it."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1336.4,"endTime":1338.44,"body":"But you kind of want to be asked if you know what I mean."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1338.44,"endTime":1342.52,"body":"All the posters have a picture of a young person or the campaigns have been for young"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1342.52,"endTime":1346.15,"body":"people. So you a lot almost everybody's first question is, am I too old?"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1346.15,"endTime":1347.5,"body":"I am. Fill in the blank."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1347.5,"endTime":1349.75,"body":"I don't really matter what age they are, they think they're too old."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1349.93,"endTime":1353.8,"body":"And then, you know, it's been too long since I studied or, you know, schools won't want"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1353.8,"endTime":1354.85,"body":"me all this kind of stuff."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1354.85,"endTime":1358.06,"body":"So our job is to yes, to market, to attract, to advise."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1358.06,"endTime":1360.85,"body":"In this country at least, teacher training is ridiculously complicated."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1360.85,"endTime":1364.27,"body":"It's one of those classic examples of a thing where you would never invent it like this,"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1364.27,"endTime":1365.71,"body":"but you can't really unpick it."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1365.71,"endTime":1368.47,"body":"So it's wildly complicated, lots of different routes and options."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1368.47,"endTime":1372.19,"body":"So we advise and support and partner with training providers, but we aren't the training"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1372.19,"endTime":1373.69,"body":"provider itself."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1373.69,"endTime":1378.64,"body":"And then and in my view, almost the most crucially, we form a network of these now"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1378.64,"endTime":1383.23,"body":"teachers and that's where I get really optimistic is that of course it's fantastic to"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1383.23,"endTime":1388.6,"body":"have these individuals in different schools, but if you could have a group of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1388.6,"endTime":1394.03,"body":"ex accountants getting together and thinking, well, hold on here, we could we could have"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1394.03,"endTime":1397.45,"body":"a different look at the way that, you know, I now understand more about how my school"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1397.45,"endTime":1402.79,"body":"budget operates and we should have a think about this or X broadcasters and journalists"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1402.79,"endTime":1406.33,"body":"thinking about how you might integrate some of those things into the English curriculum."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1406.45,"endTime":1410.1100000000001,"body":"You know, that's where to me it becomes really exciting and that's not immediate, but"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1410.1100000000001,"endTime":1412.15,"body":"it's three or four, ten years down the line."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1412.15,"endTime":1415.54,"body":"The opportunities are endless when you think about it and and you explain it in that way."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1415.54,"endTime":1416.17,"body":"I believe so."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1465.04,"endTime":1465.05,"body":"I'm curious. This is obviously a podcast about human longevity. It is not about living"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1465.05,"endTime":1465.06,"body":"forever, but this is about living as long as we can and enjoying good health, physically"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1465.06,"endTime":1465.07,"body":"good health, good mental health as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1465.07,"endTime":1465.08,"body":"And what I've learned, apart from the exercise that I mentioned, the diet, which is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1465.08,"endTime":1465.09,"body":"hugely important, but it is about how social connections, as we grow older, it's what we"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1465.09,"endTime":1465.1,"body":"do with our lives, it's who we mix with, who we learn from, what we aspire to do in the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1465.1,"endTime":1465.1100000000001,"body":"future. It's often about looking forward that keeps people going, especially their mental"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1465.1100000000001,"endTime":1465.1200000000001,"body":"health. From your perspective, how do you view the years ahead, the decades ahead?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1465.1200000000001,"endTime":1465.13,"body":"You've probably you've thought about this much more deeply than most."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1465.13,"endTime":1465.14,"body":"You've gleaned clearly a lot of knowledge from the people that you associate with."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1465.14,"endTime":1465.15,"body":"But has it affected your view of the years ahead?"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1465.15,"endTime":1466.72,"body":"Yes, I think I think it has."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1466.72,"endTime":1470.41,"body":"And you would think I would have thought about it much more perhaps than I have."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1470.41,"endTime":1477.93,"body":"But I think that what I see in Now Teach is all the things that you describe that so"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1477.93,"endTime":1481.89,"body":"often as people get more senior in their job, actually, even irrespective of COVID."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1481.92,"endTime":1485.95,"body":"People sort of fit into the little kind of boxes that you and I are looking at now."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1485.97,"endTime":1491.04,"body":"You become more and more removed from from real life, real people, a real place, if you"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1491.04,"endTime":1496.44,"body":"like, to travel about. And that, I think, is something that people relish belonging, as"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1496.44,"endTime":1498.3,"body":"you said, to have a community."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1498.3,"endTime":1502.23,"body":"And, you know, everybody talks about the flexible working revolution, you know, working"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1502.23,"endTime":1503.25,"body":"from home. It's it's wonderful."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1503.26,"endTime":1504.81,"body":"There's lots of reasons. It's great."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1504.9,"endTime":1510.18,"body":"But actually what we need as humans, I think, is a real connections and my goodness, the"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1510.18,"endTime":1514.07,"body":"schools give that I more real."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1514.07,"endTime":1515.76,"body":"And a sense of purpose."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1515.77,"endTime":1520.68,"body":"Clearly, I was listening to your podcast with the wonderful Katharine Etsy earlier and"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1520.68,"endTime":1524.79,"body":"her talking about that that thing of a sense of purpose and a sense, you know, she may"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1524.79,"endTime":1529.2,"body":"have retired from from her day job, but she's still writing and she's still, you know,"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1529.2,"endTime":1531.33,"body":"that sense of future possibility."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1531.33,"endTime":1537.1200000000001,"body":"I think when you lose that, surely that's when it begins to feel very, very depressing."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1537.1200000000001,"endTime":1545.19,"body":"And so for my self, what I think I have seen and loved is the sense of of possibility of"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1545.19,"endTime":1549.48,"body":"of starting again, that question that they all ask aged whatever it is."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1549.48,"endTime":1551.88,"body":"But let's say 58, I must be too old for this."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1551.88,"endTime":1556.1100000000001,"body":"And when the answer is a resounding no, that applies to a whole bunch of stuff."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1556.1100000000001,"endTime":1557.97,"body":"And the 58 year olds ask it, the 68 year olds."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1558.24,"endTime":1562.08,"body":"You know, that seems to me the biggest lesson."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1562.08,"endTime":1565.98,"body":"It gives me hope when I'm in that stage of life with a six, six and a two year old."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1565.98,"endTime":1569.7,"body":"So sometimes it all feels a bit kind of treadmilly to get back to where we were again in"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1569.7,"endTime":1573.53,"body":"the beginning with the house vaguely under control and everything's all quite ...."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1573.63,"endTime":1578.64,"body":"But the sense that I might just start again and do something entirely different and I"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1578.64,"endTime":1580.89,"body":"don't know what I'll be doing when I'm 55."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1580.89,"endTime":1616.1100000000001,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1616.1100000000001,"endTime":1616.1200000000001,"body":"And does it help? And you mentioned Katharine there, does it help to hear the stories of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1616.1200000000001,"endTime":1616.13,"body":"other people in your same sort of age frame?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1616.13,"endTime":1616.14,"body":"Those I mean, she is an inspiration, as you say, and there are many others like that who"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1616.14,"endTime":1616.15,"body":"have made that decision."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1616.15,"endTime":1616.16,"body":"At whatever age that I'm going to write another book or I'm going to design another"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1616.16,"endTime":1616.17,"body":"garden, I'm going to teach another classroom, whatever the aspiration is."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1616.17,"endTime":1616.18,"body":"I think personally, I think that hearing those stories is a source of huge encouragement"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1616.18,"endTime":1616.19,"body":"to a lot of people. And we live in a quite a especially the last couple of years, quite"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1616.19,"endTime":1676.1100000000001,"body":"an isolated kind of world that we need to hear this."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.14,"endTime":1676.15,"body":"I absolutely agree. And I think it's almost more than than kind of encouragement when I"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.15,"endTime":1676.16,"body":"look at I look at my parents, who are 76 and 70 and their parents at 76 and 70 were"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.16,"endTime":1676.17,"body":"really old. You know, that just was old."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.17,"endTime":1676.18,"body":"I mean, they were all pretty much at my age, I'm 41 and my mum does not look 70."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.18,"endTime":1676.19,"body":"Doesn't behave in her head what 70 probably is because her in her head, 70 must be what"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.19,"endTime":1676.2,"body":"her mother was at 70 really."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.2,"endTime":1676.21,"body":"And her mother's friends and it isn't anything like that."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.21,"endTime":1676.22,"body":"Doesn't wear the same clothes, doesn't do the same things."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.22,"endTime":1676.23,"body":"Doesn't you just say the generation above mine is kind of making it up?"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.23,"endTime":1676.24,"body":"You know, we've added these years somewhere in life and there's that gymnast whose name"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.24,"endTime":1676.25,"body":"I've forgotten, a German lady."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.25,"endTime":1676.26,"body":"They keep inventing categories for her."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.26,"endTime":1676.27,"body":"She's now 105 or something ridiculous, and she's still doing routines on the beam and"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.27,"endTime":1676.28,"body":"stuff, you know?"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.28,"endTime":1676.29,"body":"So it's almost it's more than encouragement."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1676.29,"endTime":1679.56,"body":"It's a kind of invention of what is possible, I guess, of what the model of being, a way"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1679.56,"endTime":1681.15,"body":"of being that just hasn't been there."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1681.15,"endTime":1684.8,"body":"And I suppose people like Katharine are making up that model."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1684.81,"endTime":1687.18,"body":"There wouldn't have been 87 year olds when she was young."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1687.18,"endTime":1691.25,"body":"Who were they? Just I just don't think they would have been or very, very, very few with"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1691.25,"endTime":1719.88,"body":"great good fortune to be that healthy and that everything else."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1719.88,"endTime":1719.89,"body":"And one thing I think that is helpful is although we're using it in this kind of isolated"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1719.89,"endTime":1719.9,"body":"world, we're moving out of those times, obviously."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1719.9,"endTime":1719.91,"body":"But technology is clearly helpful."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1719.91,"endTime":1719.92,"body":"And you and I are talking in little boxes because, well, it's serving a purpose."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1719.92,"endTime":1719.93,"body":"And I think there's there are a lot of benefits to it in this world."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1719.93,"endTime":1719.94,"body":"It's helping make the world actually, I think, a smaller place."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1719.94,"endTime":1719.95,"body":"But for those people in their sixties, seventies, it doesn't have to be as isolated as it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1719.95,"endTime":1779.88,"body":"once was."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1779.88,"endTime":1779.89,"body":"Absolutely. I mean, and I think sixties, seventies feel to me at least very different to"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1779.89,"endTime":1779.9,"body":"what they were. But I think of you know, I think of my aunts and great aunts in their"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1779.9,"endTime":1779.91,"body":"sort of late eighties, ninety, although actually my aunt, who's 88, still working very"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1779.91,"endTime":1779.92,"body":"hard. But people can connect with their grandchildren even if they're not in the same"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1779.92,"endTime":1779.93,"body":"country. All that kind of stuff is just it must be must be so different."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1779.93,"endTime":1779.94,"body":"I know you could write letters and things, but they're not quite the same."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1779.94,"endTime":1805.71,"body":"Not quite the same."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1805.71,"endTime":1805.72,"body":"Yeah, exactly. I just. Little story. I was working with someone much younger than me a few"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1805.72,"endTime":1805.73,"body":"days ago, 36 years old I think he was and age wasn't the topic of conversation, but I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1805.73,"endTime":1805.74,"body":"just happened to throw into the conversation without really thinking about it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1805.74,"endTime":1805.75,"body":"I said 'people of our generation'and I thought, hang on a sec, I'm almost twice your age."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1805.75,"endTime":1805.76,"body":"And I think it does illustrate how generations can be closer together in mindset."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1805.76,"endTime":1805.77,"body":"We were working on a project together."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1805.77,"endTime":1805.78,"body":"Doing exactly the same thing, but from different generations."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1805.78,"endTime":1805.79,"body":"When I was perhaps a child or entering my profession, I wouldn't have had the same train"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1805.79,"endTime":1843.07,"body":"of thought working with someone so significantly older."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.09,"endTime":1843.1,"body":"It's really interesting, isn't it? But I think it's so important that there are those"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.1,"endTime":1843.1100000000001,"body":"opportunities to be working on the same project with a 36 year old, because there aren't"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.1100000000001,"endTime":1843.1200000000001,"body":"in all industries."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.1200000000001,"endTime":1843.13,"body":"You know, I think we have a clichéd idea that old people are rubbish at technology."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.13,"endTime":1843.14,"body":"I think that is one of those things that we say and in fact that older people, often that"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.14,"endTime":1843.15,"body":"whole internalized ageism thing I find completely fascinating."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.15,"endTime":1843.16,"body":"You know, my mum is always saying to my grandchildren, her grandchildren and I try and"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.16,"endTime":1843.17,"body":"stop, but she was, oh, silly old granny."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.17,"endTime":1843.18,"body":"You know, I can't remember anything these days."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.18,"endTime":1843.19,"body":"She's amazing."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.19,"endTime":1843.2,"body":"She doesn't. But she sort of it's almost instinctive."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.2,"endTime":1843.21,"body":"She doesn't she doesn't not remember or not more than me, but the opportunity to do that"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.21,"endTime":1843.22,"body":"so that when we have now teachers we recruit with Now Teach, I'm going to make it up"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.22,"endTime":1843.23,"body":"maybe wrong on this, but I think we recruit more or almost as many computer science"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.23,"endTime":1843.24,"body":"teachers as as as there are practically in the whole country."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.24,"endTime":1843.25,"body":"I mean, there are so few computer science teachers."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.25,"endTime":1843.26,"body":"So but we seem to have spotted that actually people who have made a career in computer"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1843.26,"endTime":1845.01,"body":"science, this may be the time they want to go back and go and give back, as opposed to"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1845.01,"endTime":1848.46,"body":"the young graduates who've got the world at their feet in terms of what they can do with"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1848.46,"endTime":1849.63,"body":"a computer science degree."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1849.72,"endTime":1853.17,"body":"And that upends people's ideas of what what old you know."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1853.17,"endTime":1856.65,"body":"Of course, they know far more than anyone else in the school about it."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1856.65,"endTime":1860.67,"body":"They may not know the details of Snapchat, but they understand computers in a different"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1860.67,"endTime":1924.96,"body":"way. And so so having that opportunity to realize that just changes our perception."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1924.96,"endTime":1924.97,"body":"So just in closing, Now Teach has, I think, a great future. We've touched on lots of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1924.97,"endTime":1924.98,"body":"different avenues that you could potentially go down."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1924.98,"endTime":1936.84,"body":"Do you have a vision of what you might be doing in a decade's time?"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1937.38,"endTime":1937.39,"body":"In a funny way, I kind of I hope I mean, Now Teach feels feels like a baby, so I hope I'll"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1937.39,"endTime":1937.4,"body":"always have a role in it matches with first story."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1937.4,"endTime":1937.41,"body":"But I think I suppose I sort of hope I might be doing something entirely different that I"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1937.41,"endTime":1937.42,"body":"might have decided to do another qualification or gone to art school."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1937.42,"endTime":1937.43,"body":"I don't know. And but I suppose that's the part that feels liberating."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1937.43,"endTime":1937.44,"body":"I think that I, I honestly don't know, I might still be doing this."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1937.44,"endTime":1937.45,"body":"And if things grow and expand, that would be wonderful."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1937.45,"endTime":1937.46,"body":"And if it still feels exciting and interesting."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1937.46,"endTime":1937.47,"body":"But it seems to me that our whole relationship with sort of education, work education,"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1937.47,"endTime":1937.48,"body":"you know, this model of you learn at the beginning, then you work, then you sort of"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1937.48,"endTime":1937.49,"body":"retire and then die. That's all just got to shift."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1937.49,"endTime":1937.5,"body":"It's going to be learn, work, learn, learn and work, learn, you know, and relearn and"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1937.5,"endTime":1937.51,"body":"change. And that seems interesting to me."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":1937.51,"endTime":1991.68,"body":"That seems good."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1991.68,"endTime":1991.69,"body":"Yeah, I think it's fascinating. I think the fact that it is to some extent an uncertain"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1991.69,"endTime":1999.88,"body":"future is what makes it exciting and worth leaping into."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":2000.8600000000001,"endTime":2000.8700000000001,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2004.79,"endTime":2004.8,"body":"Katie Waldegrave really, really interesting. Thank you very much indeed."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":2019.16,"endTime":2019.17,"body":"Thank you so much for having me and good luck with the rest of the podcast, which I think"},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":2019.17,"endTime":2019.18,"body":"is brilliant."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2019.18,"endTime":2019.19,"body":"And I appreciate that and good luck with everything you do. I think it's really worthwhile"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2019.19,"endTime":2019.2,"body":"and I'm gonna follow it closely."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2019.2,"endTime":2019.21,"body":"And who knows? I might be doing something entirely different in five years time."},{"speaker":"Katie Waldegrave","startTime":2024.05,"endTime":2024.06,"body":"I was going to say, I might send you an expression of interest form just in case."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2025.64,"endTime":2025.65,"body":"There you go. We shall see. Katie, thank you. If you look at the show notes for this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2025.65,"endTime":2025.66,"body":"episode, you'll find a transcript of this conversation and some other resources."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2025.66,"endTime":2025.67,"body":"I'll put a link to Katie's work and to Now Teach and you can explore it much more."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2025.67,"endTime":2025.68,"body":"The LLAMA podcast is a Healthspan Media production."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2025.68,"endTime":2025.69,"body":"We will be back with another episode very soon."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2025.69,"endTime":2048.47,"body":"In the meantime, do take care and thanks for listening."}]}