{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1.41,"endTime":5.71,"body":"Our most important source of energy, of all things we know, is the sun."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":5.73,"endTime":8.31,"body":"We are light beings more than we are any other thing."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":8.4,"endTime":11.71,"body":"But it's also interesting that the one thing we kind of take for granted."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":11.73,"endTime":15.93,"body":"It's so obviously a force and it has so much impact."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":15.96,"endTime":21.12,"body":"How important is light for our sleep, recovery and overall well-being?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":21.27,"endTime":26.58,"body":"Today we meet Bjørn Ekeberg, a Philosopher of Science, an expert in metaphysics,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":26.58,"endTime":30.87,"body":"cosmology and an enthusiast for red light therapy."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":31.47,"endTime":35.24,"body":"Hello again and welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":35.25,"endTime":40.59,"body":"I'm Peter Bowes. This is where we explore the science and stories behind human longevity."},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":40.83,"endTime":46.92,"body":"Aging is an inevitable reality for all of us, and as we grow, our bodies need more care to"},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":46.92,"endTime":48.24,"body":"stay fit and healthy."},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":48.63,"endTime":51.78,"body":"But is a good diet and plenty of exercise enough?"},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":52.5,"endTime":57.39,"body":"We can supplement our bodies with nutritional add ons to keep our energy up and make"},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":57.39,"endTime":59.04,"body":"healthy aging a reality."},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":59.43,"endTime":64.26,"body":"But even if we have the best information about what's needed, can we trust the products"},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":64.26,"endTime":70.56,"body":"we're sold? Vitality Pro has followed the latest in longevity science to produce a range"},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":70.56,"endTime":75.84,"body":"of premium quality nutritional supplements focused on supporting better cellular health,"},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":75.84,"endTime":77.79,"body":"sleep and energy levels."},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":78.06,"endTime":82.53,"body":"They're made with the purest raw ingredients and tested by third party labs."},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":83.1,"endTime":87.33,"body":"Their certificates are available to view so that you can have confidence in the"},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":87.33,"endTime":88.61,"body":"supplements you take."},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":89.07,"endTime":91.02,"body":"Restore your cellular health."},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":91.23,"endTime":96.69,"body":"Visit Vitality-Pro.com - Free worldwide shipping is available."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":98.72,"endTime":105.44,"body":"Dr. Ekeberg is the co-founder of Flex Beam, a targeted red light therapy device designed"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":105.44,"endTime":110.02,"body":"to accelerate your body's recovery and optimize health."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":110.02,"endTime":115.1,"body":"And red light therapy, although it has been around for a while, quite a long while, it is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":115.1,"endTime":117.34,"body":"becoming increasingly popular."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":117.35,"endTime":122.33,"body":"I've experienced the rejuvenating effects of full body red light therapy."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":122.33,"endTime":126.2,"body":"It certainly feels good at the time, but how does it work?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":126.23,"endTime":130.01,"body":"Bjørn, welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast, joining us from the beautiful"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":130.01,"endTime":131.75,"body":"city of Oslo in Norway."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":131.78,"endTime":133.28,"body":"Thank you, Peter. It's a pleasure to be on."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":133.31,"endTime":134.54,"body":"Really good to talk to you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":134.54,"endTime":137.66,"body":"We'll get on to red light therapy in a second."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":137.93,"endTime":139.85,"body":"I just want to really go back to where I started."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":139.85,"endTime":145.94,"body":"A Philosopher of Science, an expert in metaphysics and cosmology, the science of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":145.94,"endTime":149.0,"body":"origin and development of the universe."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":149.0,"endTime":154.58,"body":"Help me join the dots a little bit between that academic background and what you do now."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":154.58,"endTime":158.75,"body":"Yeah, I suppose, Peter, that all revolves around the use of doctor as you used in the"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":158.75,"endTime":163.55,"body":"beginning. I have a bit of an ambivalent relationship to this because one part of the"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":163.55,"endTime":169.31,"body":"doctor is it comes from I did a PhD, I did a long academic career in Canada, and that put"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":169.31,"endTime":173.48,"body":"me on the path to become sort of a professor somewhere and so on."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":173.48,"endTime":177.83,"body":"And I did a lot of research that landed me in this field of cosmology that we could"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":178.28,"endTime":182.79,"body":"revert to. But I ended up with a doctorate, and I always felt like an imposter, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":182.81,"endTime":186.98,"body":"that it's like that's a philosophical doctorate on philosopher and not an actual medical"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":186.98,"endTime":192.74,"body":"doctor. For people that I have huge respect for, I will get asked on airplanes before"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":192.74,"endTime":195.75,"body":"taking off. It's like can in case of an emergency Dr."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":195.75,"endTime":197.87,"body":"Ekeberg, can you assist?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":197.87,"endTime":202.52,"body":"And I have to say, I could only tell people's existential questions, maybe if I'm lucky,"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":202.52,"endTime":204.32,"body":"but it's like, yeah, I wouldn't put me there."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":204.56,"endTime":210.65,"body":"But then as fate would have it, I would actually I was sort of steered on a path toward"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":211.07,"endTime":213.05,"body":"just more medical clinical space anyway."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":213.05,"endTime":218.42,"body":"And these days in, in the business of something that work with like real doctors"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":218.87,"endTime":220.88,"body":"addressing very real health problems."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":220.88,"endTime":223.73,"body":"So that's quite a leap in journey."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":223.73,"endTime":227.42,"body":"And I mean, I suppose for me it's starting to make sense."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":227.42,"endTime":232.01,"body":"But it's a it's a strange combination that results from two different kind of hats that"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":232.01,"endTime":232.76,"body":"I've been wearing."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":232.97,"endTime":238.01,"body":"It's a good distinction to make, but I think also, and maybe increasingly these days, the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":238.01,"endTime":239.96,"body":"lines are a little bit blurred, aren't they?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":239.96,"endTime":246.83,"body":"When we talk about certainly philosophy and those those bigger universal issues and our"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":246.83,"endTime":252.47,"body":"own personal medical health, the physical well-being, it is all intertwined, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":252.47,"endTime":257.66,"body":"I mean, in a certain sense, it's all about like light is the main topic, I think, for the"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":257.66,"endTime":263.48,"body":"show. And that is upon reflection, this was not a conscious intent of mine, but it really"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":263.48,"endTime":269.12,"body":"is what I was interested in, in the philosophy of science and what I've ended up doing"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":269.12,"endTime":273.89,"body":"quite a bit as a public debating on questions around concern, the nature of light and how"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":273.89,"endTime":275.66,"body":"we understand it in the universe."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":276.53,"endTime":280.85,"body":"Everything about the cosmological model and so on is based on our interpretation and"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":280.85,"endTime":282.92,"body":"understanding of what light actually is."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":283.19,"endTime":288.44,"body":"And then to encounter a field which I did not by any conscious intent, but I was sent"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":288.44,"endTime":293.87,"body":"into a place in which the crucial part about how light affects us."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":294.17,"endTime":299.15,"body":"And this is very idea, which was very strange to me at the time, and a strange to most"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":299.15,"endTime":305.54,"body":"people. It's like, how could light possibly have such an impact on us and our health?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":305.9,"endTime":309.62,"body":"And then you start to realize we already we already know this really well."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":309.62,"endTime":311.39,"body":"We just don't kind of understand it."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":312.02,"endTime":315.17,"body":"I mean, like how, how important it is and what kind of force it is."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":315.17,"endTime":320.33,"body":"So I guess I've, I've come from the huge cosmological background."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":320.33,"endTime":325.07,"body":"Zeroing in on the actual effects on earth would be some way of forging the connection"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":325.07,"endTime":326.39,"body":"between the two, I suppose."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":326.42,"endTime":328.73,"body":"I think it might be useful then to, to go back"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":371.15,"endTime":374.96,"body":"to basics and explain, you know, what is red light?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":374.96,"endTime":382.22,"body":"Red light is on the long wavelength part of the spectrum that we can still see and beyond"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":382.22,"endTime":386.93,"body":"what the visible spectrum of light is, from blue to red, on the spectrum that we can see"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":386.93,"endTime":391.61,"body":"with our own eyes, there is a huge spectrum of different wavelengths that we feel."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":391.61,"endTime":395.87,"body":"We perceive they are there, but we don't see them."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":395.99,"endTime":398.27,"body":"Infra red is one such category of light."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":398.27,"endTime":402.52,"body":"Ultraviolet is another so on, that has, we know how certain impact on us."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":402.85,"endTime":408.76,"body":"Interestingly, over 50% of the energy radiating on us on any given day, I think it's been"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":408.76,"endTime":412.66,"body":"measured up to 53% is in the infrared range."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":412.75,"endTime":417.64,"body":"So actually when you're exposed to sunlight, you are mostly getting infrared light or"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":417.64,"endTime":420.49,"body":"like that's the warming effect of the sun."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":420.55,"endTime":424.99,"body":"And there's some very interesting things that happen physiologically at this range of"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":424.99,"endTime":428.89,"body":"light, just on the cusp of the of the visible and into the infrared."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":429.13,"endTime":435.4,"body":"And which aspects of sunlight are not so positive for us because we all understand the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":435.4,"endTime":437.55,"body":"dangers of getting too much exposure."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":437.56,"endTime":442.09,"body":"Yeah, I mean I think it's quite we are quite drilled in with the fear of overexposure to"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":442.09,"endTime":444.52,"body":"the sun in terms of skin damage and so on."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":444.52,"endTime":447.04,"body":"And this and that is clearly one issue."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":447.04,"endTime":452.32,"body":"I think in general though, for a lot of people living in the sort of modern world and"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":452.32,"endTime":457.45,"body":"listening to your podcast, for example, it's often a question of not getting enough light"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":457.45,"endTime":459.07,"body":"or the right kinds of light."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":460.06,"endTime":464.86,"body":"We are also surrounded by sources of light in our cities and our neighborhoods that are"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":464.86,"endTime":469.75,"body":"really not designed for humans, like they are designed for factories to be able to"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":469.75,"endTime":472.54,"body":"produce something very specific to sell in the marketplace."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":472.54,"endTime":476.8,"body":"And then later it's tested and it shows that it's actually you have some kinds of light"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":476.8,"endTime":481.78,"body":"can give an adverse effect and disrupt melatonin balance in the body."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":481.78,"endTime":484.78,"body":"And these kinds of issues are becoming more and more known."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":484.78,"endTime":487.3,"body":"So we have a lot of artificial light that's not healthy for us."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":487.3,"endTime":494.23,"body":"And we have often a kind of a fear of sunlight for fear of mixing with sunburn."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":494.23,"endTime":500.35,"body":"But our most important source of energy, of all things we know, is the sun like we are"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":500.35,"endTime":502.54,"body":"light beings more than we are any other thing."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":502.6,"endTime":506.53,"body":"But it's also interestingly, the one thing we kind of take for granted that's at least"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":506.53,"endTime":511.87,"body":"what I find somewhat puzzling is that it's so obviously a force and it has so much"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":511.87,"endTime":513.64,"body":"impact, clearly."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":513.64,"endTime":517.48,"body":"But somehow we just it's either on or off and we just don't think about it."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":517.48,"endTime":519.85,"body":"We don't think about medicine and health in these terms."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":519.85,"endTime":524.8,"body":"And one area that I think is increasingly being better understood is the impact of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":524.8,"endTime":532.24,"body":"sunlight on our circadian rhythms, the 24 hour rhythm that our body becomes accustomed to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":532.24,"endTime":537.79,"body":"and is modified by exposure to light and the importance of exposure to light, at least in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":537.79,"endTime":543.4,"body":"my view, as early as possible in your day to set that circadian rhythm perhaps into the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":543.4,"endTime":545.17,"body":"next stage, the wake up stage."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":545.17,"endTime":548.53,"body":"Yeah, indeed. And this is where red light therapy can really help is."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":548.53,"endTime":554.32,"body":"One of the aspects, for example, is that you can stimulate the body's own physiological"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":554.32,"endTime":559.36,"body":"response to sunlight because you are feeding it energy at the same wavelengths basically"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":559.36,"endTime":561.43,"body":"that you are exposed to in, in daylight."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":561.43,"endTime":566.05,"body":"And it seems to have a very positive impact on sleep and melatonin production."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":566.05,"endTime":571.99,"body":"So let's talk about your device then and go back to the beginning of its evolution."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":571.99,"endTime":576.82,"body":"I think I get a better sense now of what your goal is with red light therapy."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":576.88,"endTime":577.84,"body":"How did you start?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":577.84,"endTime":583.48,"body":"I came into this like I have three co-founders with me who I think were uniquely"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":583.48,"endTime":587.32,"body":"positioned to be able to get this off the ground because they happen to be Norwegian and"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":587.32,"endTime":589.27,"body":"Dutch hardware specialists."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":589.45,"endTime":594.31,"body":"They created solar cell lamps and all kinds of things for international companies based"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":594.31,"endTime":599.17,"body":"in Asia. And their expertise was like how to get products made, tailored and so on, and"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":599.41,"endTime":601.21,"body":"to the European or US market."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":601.42,"endTime":604.18,"body":"And they had stumbled on NASA research."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":604.18,"endTime":607.66,"body":"The chief engineer Arjen Helder was sort of - he discovered this because he was looking"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":607.66,"endTime":612.4,"body":"for a solution to like his wife had some sort of liver problem was only prescribed pills"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":612.4,"endTime":617.08,"body":"and he was searching online and then he found NASA PubMed, all this stuff about red light"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":617.08,"endTime":619.06,"body":"therapy photobiomodulation."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":619.06,"endTime":624.07,"body":"And he was in this very unique position that he could just look at all the, read all"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":624.07,"endTime":625.84,"body":"these papers and say, okay, I can just design one."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":625.84,"endTime":628.87,"body":"I just make one myself because he had it all at his disposal."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":629.17,"endTime":633.31,"body":"And then it worked on his wife and his wife gave it to the neighbor and then the neighbor"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":633.31,"endTime":637.36,"body":"wanted to the other neighbor wanted to come back and try it because it had a positive"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":637.36,"endTime":640.3,"body":"impact on his circulation in his legs and he could feel himself."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":640.3,"endTime":643.33,"body":"So all these health effects were being discovered."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":643.33,"endTime":649.48,"body":"And Arjen Helder longtime partner and friend of mine Christian Barmen he realized very"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":649.48,"endTime":653.08,"body":"quickly there has to be a business in this - there was a wow effect from what we were"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":653.08,"endTime":656.64,"body":"seeing. And they teamed up with Dr."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":656.64,"endTime":662.32,"body":"Zulia Frost who is a medical and clinical expert her company having worked for over 20"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":662.32,"endTime":667.78,"body":"years with laser light therapy, neurostimulation technologies like she knows about all"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":667.78,"endTime":674.11,"body":"these different ways of treating the body with light and light energy and really wanted a"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":674.11,"endTime":677.77,"body":"way to get this out to people because it's not commonly known yet."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":678.13,"endTime":683.05,"body":"And I think we realized when we all met in the same room, I remember it very well."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":683.05,"endTime":687.28,"body":"It was December 2018 and we were all sitting in the same place and we saw like the one"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":687.28,"endTime":691.72,"body":"thing that makes the difference, the reason why people haven't heard about this before is"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":692.02,"endTime":694.3,"body":"because it hasn't been made really accessible."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":694.69,"endTime":697.6,"body":"Like right now you can get red light therapy."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":697.6,"endTime":699.58,"body":"Let's say you read about this, we hear about it."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":699.58,"endTime":701.74,"body":"Then you want to experiment with these effects."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":701.95,"endTime":705.31,"body":"You have to be one of these types of super dedicated to I'm going to do whatever it"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":705.31,"endTime":708.7,"body":"takes. I'm going to set up a wall in my basement."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":708.7,"endTime":711.94,"body":"And, you know, it's like to get enough power."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":711.94,"endTime":715.77,"body":"I need a pretty large panel of all these lights and I'm going to get undressed."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":715.78,"endTime":720.16,"body":"I'm going to try to stick myself up against this and my body parts to sort of experience"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":720.16,"endTime":722.2,"body":"it. It's very doable."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":722.71,"endTime":725.71,"body":"You can do it, but you have to be very, very dedicated and very, very niche."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":725.71,"endTime":731.28,"body":"And so the route we wanted to go was to try to design something for humans, like actually"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":731.38,"endTime":734.89,"body":"for the human body, because the current light panels that you can get, they're actually"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":734.89,"endTime":739.15,"body":"they're designed for plants like they come from a factory in China that produces them for"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":739.15,"endTime":744.85,"body":"grow ups because lights also, like humans, respond very favorably to the right kinds of"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":744.85,"endTime":745.24,"body":"light."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":745.24,"endTime":750.55,"body":"These are the kinds of panels that I know quite a lot of wellness centers, red light"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":750.55,"endTime":756.46,"body":"therapy, as you've just described it, with the large panels of lights that you quite"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":756.46,"endTime":762.4,"body":"literally just stand between, that comes at a cost, and you need to be able to afford to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":762.4,"endTime":764.35,"body":"go to somewhere like that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":764.35,"endTime":769.03,"body":"And I suspect what you're talking about is something that is more affordable for everyday"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":769.03,"endTime":769.57,"body":"people."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":769.6,"endTime":773.83,"body":"Definitely compared to large panels, to give you that full body effect for sure."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":773.83,"endTime":779.56,"body":"I mean, what we set out to make was the world's first, as you say, a targeted wearable"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":779.56,"endTime":779.95,"body":"device."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":779.95,"endTime":780.18,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":780.22,"endTime":781.51,"body":"So it's like a belt."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":781.51,"endTime":783.3,"body":"You can wrap it around it for you."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":783.31,"endTime":786.46,"body":"It would probably fit if you had it around your stomach, it would cover your whole lower"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":786.46,"endTime":791.41,"body":"back if you have lower back pain, for example, or go around your shoulder or your knee"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":791.41,"endTime":793.42,"body":"joint and so on."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":793.42,"endTime":797.65,"body":"And I mean, one of the things we discovered is that also when you do it more targeted,"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":797.65,"endTime":802.48,"body":"it's like literally wrapping around where you are, wherever it hurts or wherever you have"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":802.72,"endTime":804.34,"body":"an issue you might want to treat."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":804.34,"endTime":807.31,"body":"The treatment also seems to be more effective because it's so targeted."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":807.31,"endTime":808.75,"body":"And that was part of Arjen's idea."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":808.75,"endTime":814.18,"body":"And the insight early on is that light actually, I mean, light coming from a bulb or from"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":814.18,"endTime":818.77,"body":"a panel. If you're five centimeters away from a ten centimeters away from it, like most"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":818.77,"endTime":820.24,"body":"of the power is already gone."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":820.66,"endTime":822.96,"body":"Like you don't get a lot of you can get very positive."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":822.97,"endTime":827.11,"body":"There are known positive benefits you can get from brief exposure, like being in a red"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":827.11,"endTime":832.09,"body":"lit room and so on for very certain things like eyesight and testosterone and these sort"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":832.09,"endTime":836.86,"body":"of interesting effects of red light therapy seems to work really well at low doses, for"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":836.86,"endTime":842.95,"body":"example, but most for most kinds of injuries or like pain reduction or any of things, you"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":842.95,"endTime":848.44,"body":"need quite a lot of power and you need to really get close to the site."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":848.74,"endTime":852.55,"body":"And infrared light has this quality that it can penetrate up to ten centimeters in the"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":852.55,"endTime":855.04,"body":"body. It's like a very long wavelength."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":855.04,"endTime":857.2,"body":"So it's able to go deeper than the skin."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":857.71,"endTime":862.09,"body":"And this means that it's possible if you are close enough and if you have something that"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":862.09,"endTime":866.17,"body":"really hugs the shape of the body, I mean, you can start treating at the core of a knee,"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":866.17,"endTime":869.56,"body":"for example, that's like torn or in your shoulder joint."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":869.74,"endTime":872.74,"body":"This, I would say, is somewhat unprecedented within red light therapy."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":872.74,"endTime":877.84,"body":"We haven't had a way to actually get this level of treatment, so to speak, and we made"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":877.84,"endTime":880.63,"body":"this in a portable way so everyone can use it."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":880.63,"endTime":885.28,"body":"And it's a $599 is the selling price for the device."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":885.67,"endTime":888.05,"body":"Whether people find that affordable or not, it still is."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":888.07,"endTime":893.35,"body":"Is the device generally more often used to treat conditions, to treat injuries, as you"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":893.35,"endTime":898.66,"body":"describe it? Or is there a preventative sort of maintenance mode as well?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":898.66,"endTime":902.86,"body":"I mean, there certainly is for people who are let's say I think a lot of listeners of your"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":902.86,"endTime":906.97,"body":"show as well will consider themselves health optimizers in some ways and looking for ways"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":906.97,"endTime":907.9,"body":"to improve your health."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":907.9,"endTime":908.25,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":908.44,"endTime":912.79,"body":"Then there is taking good care of your mitochondria, taking good care of your cells,"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":912.82,"endTime":916.81,"body":"getting taking good care of those parts of your body that are really stimulated by light."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":916.81,"endTime":918.25,"body":"It's a very sensible thing to do."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":918.25,"endTime":923.53,"body":"And then to use red light therapy can be very, very beneficial to support and to prevent"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":923.83,"endTime":931.18,"body":"and so on. What we saw is and what is sort of our main focus is still the ability to"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":931.18,"endTime":934.42,"body":"bounce back from injury or to drastically reduce pain for people."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":934.42,"endTime":937.9,"body":"It still seems to be one of the most effective applications of Flex Beam - our device."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":937.9,"endTime":943.36,"body":"And so this is the the one thing we tend to front now and we work a lot with athletes"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":944.08,"endTime":947.92,"body":"like in the sports and fitness sector where people actually are very conscious of"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":947.92,"endTime":952.57,"body":"injuries they create and they can really testify to the effects for everyday well-being."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":952.57,"endTime":956.47,"body":"It's a it's more of a subtle it's something you take every day to feel better."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":956.47,"endTime":959.89,"body":"You won't necessarily notice from one day to another that something has happened."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":959.89,"endTime":965.11,"body":"And that's the effect you can get if you are, for example, using it for an acute injury"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":965.23,"endTime":966.31,"body":"or something like this."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":967.51,"endTime":970.31,"body":"This is the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":970.33,"endTime":971.44,"body":"Our guest is Dr."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":971.44,"endTime":975.31,"body":"Björn Ekeberg, the co-founder of Flex Beam."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":975.34,"endTime":980.86,"body":"We've just been talking in some detail about what Flex Beam is, what it could potentially"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":980.86,"endTime":986.83,"body":"be used for. I'm curious to know how many or roughly how many scientific studies there"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":986.83,"endTime":992.98,"body":"are backing up what you say it can do and the level of research that's being done into"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":992.98,"endTime":993.44,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":993.46,"endTime":998.36,"body":"It's actually a lot more extensive than you would think when you get into it."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":998.38,"endTime":1003.75,"body":"There are on PubMed alone, which is peer reviewed studies, there are 5000 papers on red"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1003.75,"endTime":1009.99,"body":"light therapy. There's 7700 papers on what's called low level laser therapy, which is"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1009.99,"endTime":1016.35,"body":"equivalent to what we now have as LED lights, and then another 3400 papers on"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1016.35,"endTime":1020.1,"body":"photobiomodulation. And that is just within the peer reviewed sector."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1020.19,"endTime":1025.32,"body":"And NASA has been doing a lot of development of the technology since the early 2000s,"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1025.74,"endTime":1030.9,"body":"which is probably one of the main drivers of a lot of the applications around these"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1030.99,"endTime":1032.31,"body":"scientific studies as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1032.34,"endTime":1036.6,"body":"I think you said earlier that perhaps the benefits are not widely known amongst the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1036.6,"endTime":1042.36,"body":"general public, but the technology has indeed been around for some time and organizations"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1042.36,"endTime":1045.18,"body":"like NASA have been looking into it and using it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1045.18,"endTime":1049.89,"body":"And also elite athletes have been benefiting for quite a number of years."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1049.92,"endTime":1056.46,"body":"Yeah, it used to be a known treatment for especially Olympic level athletes with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1056.46,"endTime":1061.14,"body":"funding as you could go and lie in one of these extremely expensive beds and just expose"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1061.14,"endTime":1063.78,"body":"yourself to red and near  infrared light."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1063.78,"endTime":1069.15,"body":"And it would generally boost their performance or boost their recovery time, which is one"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1069.15,"endTime":1073.02,"body":"of the main things that you get from exposure to red light therapy and why it's so"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1073.02,"endTime":1078.24,"body":"powerful, for example, for sports like for athletes is that it improves your recovery"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1078.24,"endTime":1083.02,"body":"time. And so they would do this as a kind of advantage, but it's been only for the few."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1083.04,"endTime":1089.13,"body":"So I think a key point here is that this is a consumer market product that perhaps brings"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1089.13,"endTime":1093.93,"body":"the benefits of those few over the years to people like you and I."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1093.96,"endTime":1095.13,"body":"And that's the idea."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1095.13,"endTime":1100.05,"body":"And that's the really the vision of the company is to reach out with a kind of technology"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1100.05,"endTime":1102.45,"body":"that has transformative potential for a lot of people."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1102.45,"endTime":1104.73,"body":"They've never heard of it. It's usually been out of reach."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1104.85,"endTime":1109.98,"body":"But we believe and we had a sort of moonshot vision when we when we started that once"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1109.98,"endTime":1115.08,"body":"people realize this or you can break the awareness barrier that something can be so"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1115.23,"endTime":1119.25,"body":"positive and have so many positive health impacts, why wouldn't you want to have one at"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1119.25,"endTime":1124.38,"body":"home? When I first started, I mean, I interviewed if I if I may, Arjen Helder the"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1124.38,"endTime":1127.68,"body":"inventor, my first job was to make a film about the founders."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1127.83,"endTime":1132.93,"body":"And one of the things that stood out to me was when he learned about this and he tried it"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1133.29,"endTime":1138.63,"body":"on his wife and neighbors and discovered the effects, he was actually quite irate that"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1138.63,"endTime":1139.89,"body":"why have we not heard of it?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1139.89,"endTime":1146.1,"body":"Why can't I go and go to a pharmacy or somewhere and actually get a device that can help"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1146.1,"endTime":1150.12,"body":"me with my pain instead of painkillers or any of the things that's being prescribed?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1150.6,"endTime":1156.03,"body":"And I think part of that sort of that reaction is still forms kernel of the company,"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1156.03,"endTime":1159.94,"body":"which we call Research Health, which is behind this device Flex Beam."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1160.29,"endTime":1163.14,"body":"So we really think that there is a different, different way."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1163.14,"endTime":1168.27,"body":"And red light therapy is one particular application has a lot of potential."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1168.27,"endTime":1173.52,"body":"I think it might be helpful just to go through a very practical A, B and C as to how the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1173.52,"endTime":1174.96,"body":"flex beam works."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1174.96,"endTime":1178.8,"body":"In other words, what you do once you have it physically, what do you do?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1178.83,"endTime":1182.64,"body":"How long does it take and how often do you need to use it?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1182.82,"endTime":1188.16,"body":"It's set to function on a ten minute program and it's automatically you just you"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1188.16,"endTime":1190.77,"body":"literally, you place it and wrap it wherever you are."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1190.77,"endTime":1197.85,"body":"It's about the size of a belt, like a weight belt has three light pods on it that radiate"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1197.85,"endTime":1199.32,"body":"in different all different directions."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1199.32,"endTime":1202.53,"body":"So you get a very intense exposure to light once you turn it on."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1202.53,"endTime":1207.72,"body":"There are three programs you can choose, which has to do with how deep you want to treat"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1207.72,"endTime":1215.58,"body":"because red light, which is around 600 to 630 nanometers, that's a wavelength measure is"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1215.88,"endTime":1220.62,"body":"largely works on skin has very positive effects on collagen production and the elastin in"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1220.62,"endTime":1222.09,"body":"the skin and so on."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1222.09,"endTime":1225.45,"body":"But once you start adding infrared, you start getting deeper into tissue."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1225.45,"endTime":1229.35,"body":"And so we have three programs that allow you to determine if you what you want to treat"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1229.35,"endTime":1232.29,"body":"this like deep tissue, for example, it's mostly infrared."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1232.29,"endTime":1239.01,"body":"In terms of knowing what to do, in terms of medical advice as to what is best for you, how"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1239.01,"endTime":1240.45,"body":"do you help the user?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1240.48,"endTime":1246.24,"body":"Most of the applications that we've seen are quite intuitive, as in like you hurt your"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1246.24,"endTime":1250.05,"body":"shoulder and you would use it on your shoulder, but we have a throat."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1250.17,"endTime":1254.97,"body":"Doctor, Zulia Frost is one of the co-founders of the company, has developed a whole suite"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1254.97,"endTime":1255.99,"body":"of protocols."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1255.99,"endTime":1259.5,"body":"If there are specific things that you are wanting to treat because sometimes it's"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1259.5,"endTime":1264.51,"body":"beneficial, for example, to treat the hip if you have a knee problem because the energy"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1264.51,"endTime":1266.81,"body":"comes from a different place in your body and so on for."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1267.04,"endTime":1272.71,"body":"We have resources that were made available and this is part of our vision as well as it's"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1272.71,"endTime":1276.64,"body":"an education and awareness of how you can use it in different ways."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1276.67,"endTime":1281.08,"body":"I often in fact, I always say to people, especially listening to this podcast, if you are"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1281.08,"endTime":1287.59,"body":"thinking of a new intervention, whether it be diet, exercise or something else to try to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1287.59,"endTime":1292.12,"body":"improve your health, the first port of call should be your doctor to have a conversation"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1292.12,"endTime":1294.31,"body":"to see if it is good for you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1294.34,"endTime":1295.63,"body":"Would you echo that?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1295.66,"endTime":1302.26,"body":"I mean, absolutely. I would speak to people who practice on humans, like people like"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1302.26,"endTime":1307.9,"body":"physically treat people like physiotherapists, chiropractors, osteopaths and so on."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1308.17,"endTime":1313.84,"body":"I think often have a clear understanding of how the body works, the energy principle in"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1313.84,"endTime":1317.2,"body":"the body, that it's something that that light could have a certain kind of effect."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1317.47,"endTime":1322.06,"body":"You might if you ask your medical doctor, depending on which company sort of which"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1322.06,"endTime":1328.03,"body":"country you're in, you might get a lot of skepticism because the science of this is not"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1328.03,"endTime":1333.01,"body":"known where medical doctors are being trained very often because they're trained more in"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1333.01,"endTime":1337.12,"body":"a biochemical paradigm or a pharmaceutical approach, which can be valid."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1337.12,"endTime":1342.01,"body":"But this is a completely different kind of approach to health that is not so well known"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1342.01,"endTime":1343.42,"body":"in the medical establishment yet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1343.87,"endTime":1347.38,"body":"You touched on it earlier, but what are the benefits for sleep?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1347.38,"endTime":1353.92,"body":"And again, is that scientifically proven that this kind of red light therapy can improve"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1353.92,"endTime":1357.55,"body":"your sleep? And are we talking about deep sleep, R.E.M?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1357.7,"endTime":1358.15,"body":"What does it do."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1358.15,"endTime":1360.79,"body":"There are there are several studies."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1360.79,"endTime":1362.74,"body":"I'm happy to provide them for your show notes."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1362.95,"endTime":1363.67,"body":"That would be great."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1363.67,"endTime":1368.65,"body":"Yeah. If listeners want to see that are focused specifically on case studies of sleep"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1368.65,"endTime":1373.6,"body":"following people over time like basketball team of female basketball players is one study"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1373.6,"endTime":1378.91,"body":"that came out recently that has the practical applications, but the sort of the chemical"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1378.91,"endTime":1383.56,"body":"reactions that are being traced in terms of melatonin production in the body and how"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1383.56,"endTime":1386.97,"body":"that's affected by red light therapy or exposure to near-infrared light."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1386.98,"endTime":1392.92,"body":"There's quite a lot of studies on and it's complicated to say exactly what it is that is"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1392.92,"endTime":1397.3,"body":"happening, but it seems to have a positive impact on sleep induction."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1397.3,"endTime":1403.22,"body":"So for people who use Flex Beam on their chest late at night or just to calm down 10"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1403.22,"endTime":1406.75,"body":"minutes before bed, it seems to activate fall asleep more quickly."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1406.99,"endTime":1409.84,"body":"So we started seeing this and are doing studies of it in house."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1409.84,"endTime":1415.15,"body":"Like we have people who wear the sleep tracking rings and these kinds of things, but it's"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1415.15,"endTime":1416.47,"body":"not yet peer reviewed papers."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1416.47,"endTime":1418.09,"body":"These are effects that we are seeing."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1418.21,"endTime":1422.98,"body":"And the second way that I think it impacts sleep, which is important and also in the big"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1422.98,"endTime":1428.95,"body":"picture that we started talking about, is it helps your body's own circadian rhythm to"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1428.95,"endTime":1430.03,"body":"reset itself."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1430.03,"endTime":1434.2,"body":"So if you expose yourself close at around sunset, for example, you get a dose of this."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1434.53,"endTime":1440.8,"body":"It signals to the body that you are getting closer to bedtime, that it's the light in the"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1440.8,"endTime":1446.32,"body":"red spectrum does not irritate the body the same way short wavelength can do."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1446.35,"endTime":1450.88,"body":"It seems to have a more soothing kind of effect, and it's not picked up the same way in"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1450.88,"endTime":1454.75,"body":"the nervous system as some sort of light is on, the day is on."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1455.5,"endTime":1459.13,"body":"And all of that seems to translate into just a healthier circadian rhythm."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1459.13,"endTime":1462.91,"body":"So that's why we often for sleep, we recommend you use it as a daily."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1463.09,"endTime":1467.23,"body":"It's like your own dose of sunshine, like sunset or sunrise in the morning."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1467.41,"endTime":1471.69,"body":"And a lot of our users are reporting great effects from this long term."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1471.7,"endTime":1478.03,"body":"So is it generally the best use is just before you go to sleep for that red light as"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1478.03,"endTime":1481.03,"body":"opposed to in the morning. Would you is there any reason to use it in the morning as"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1481.03,"endTime":1481.62,"body":"well?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1481.63,"endTime":1487.03,"body":"I mean, we would like you could argue you use it both times like sunrise to to like to be"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1487.03,"endTime":1490.42,"body":"exposed, as you mentioned, I think early on from your own experience."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1490.42,"endTime":1490.63,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1490.69,"endTime":1494.95,"body":"The importance of being exposed to sunshine in the morning can be very, very beneficial."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1494.95,"endTime":1498.4,"body":"I myself live in such a way that it's like I can always the first thing I can do in the"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1498.4,"endTime":1499.45,"body":"morning is to get sunlight."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1499.45,"endTime":1503.71,"body":"It's important for me, but for a lot of people you don't have access to that."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1503.8,"endTime":1509.73,"body":"And then having a red light like flex beam can be a really nice look at dose of like"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1509.74,"endTime":1512.38,"body":"basically infrared spectrum."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1512.65,"endTime":1516.82,"body":"You know, why the sunrise is so red is because we can see more in the red spectrum at"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1516.82,"endTime":1518.59,"body":"that hour because the sun is so low."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1518.98,"endTime":1524.02,"body":"So you get that little extra dose of infrared that can mimic a sunrise will help your"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1524.02,"endTime":1525.7,"body":"hormonal system."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1525.7,"endTime":1527.95,"body":"But then in the evening it seems to be sleep inductive."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1527.95,"endTime":1530.29,"body":"So it's what we advise to try it."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1530.32,"endTime":1532.51,"body":"If it doesn't work, you will have a general systemic effect."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1532.51,"endTime":1537.88,"body":"But for a lot of people, it just kind of I mean, I try myself and I get knocked out and"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1537.88,"endTime":1539.23,"body":"then I just sleep more deeply."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1539.35,"endTime":1542.77,"body":"Those are the main case studies we've had have been on deep sleep."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1542.8,"endTime":1544.03,"body":"That was going to be my next question."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1544.03,"endTime":1548.11,"body":"There are obviously different types of sleep and clearly one of the most beneficial, REM,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1548.24,"endTime":1550.75,"body":"is important, but deep sleep."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1550.75,"endTime":1555.88,"body":"Generally, the sleep that you get in the first part of the the night of sleep is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1555.88,"endTime":1557.23,"body":"crucially important to you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1557.23,"endTime":1559.75,"body":"If you don't get enough deep sleep, you really feel it, don't you?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1559.75,"endTime":1560.5,"body":"The next morning?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1560.5,"endTime":1561.97,"body":"Yeah. It's almost like you."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1561.97,"endTime":1566.68,"body":"I mean, I follow I have an Oura ring myself, so I use sort of sleep track."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1567.65,"endTime":1573.53,"body":"And I can really see it if it's like you're coming close to bedtime and it's almost like"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1573.53,"endTime":1577.61,"body":"you're sliding, you're dipping and you're but you're not really getting into it and deep."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1577.61,"endTime":1581.48,"body":"And then you wake up a few hours later and it's like you had a rest and you didn't have a"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1581.48,"endTime":1583.18,"body":"deep sleep. That makes a huge impact."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1583.19,"endTime":1586.88,"body":"The effects that we've seen with Flex Beam, for example, is like it's just a steeper"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1586.88,"endTime":1590.23,"body":"climb right down on the curve, like right to deep sleep immediately."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1590.24,"endTime":1594.53,"body":"Whether this holds true for everyone, we cannot say we're doing because it's still early,"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1595.13,"endTime":1599.21,"body":"but we are definitely developing for our next version of this to like more in the sleep"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1599.21,"endTime":1603.71,"body":"range. That's something we discovered as a very positive effect and sleep is essential to"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1603.71,"endTime":1604.91,"body":"recovery overall."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1605.03,"endTime":1610.91,"body":"If you sleep better, you recover better, and therefore also your recovery goes faster,"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1610.91,"endTime":1614.72,"body":"not just from local treatment where it hurts, but also because you're sleeping better."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1614.72,"endTime":1617.96,"body":"Right. So Bjorn let's broaden this out a little bit."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1617.96,"endTime":1624.86,"body":"This is a podcast about human longevity in all its facets and forms and ideas."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1625.13,"endTime":1630.74,"body":"And we focus on the years ahead, hopefully the decades ahead of good health and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1630.74,"endTime":1636.02,"body":"well-being, focusing on healthspan, the number of years that we optimize our health and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1636.02,"endTime":1642.08,"body":"appreciate and benefit from 100% health as opposed to lifespan, which can possibly mean a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1642.08,"endTime":1644.21,"body":"few years at the end that aren't particularly good."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1644.21,"endTime":1649.82,"body":"So I'm curious, you are clearly an individual who's very well aware of his own physical"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1649.82,"endTime":1651.65,"body":"health and well-being."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1651.68,"endTime":1657.02,"body":"To what extent do you think about your own longevity and adapt your lifestyle"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1657.02,"endTime":1657.95,"body":"accordingly?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1657.98,"endTime":1659.03,"body":"Yeah, it's interesting."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1659.03,"endTime":1666.32,"body":"I had to reflect on it before our call as well that I've not been driven by the question"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1666.32,"endTime":1672.74,"body":"of aging personally, by doing a lot of these sort of optimizations, or I adopted about"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1672.74,"endTime":1677.39,"body":"eight years ago a lot of practices that are now known as biohacking, in some circles."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1677.6,"endTime":1679.76,"body":"I myself don't really identify with the label."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1679.76,"endTime":1683.0,"body":"I just thought there were certain approaches here that made sense and I adopted them."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1683.0,"endTime":1686.93,"body":"And just because they made me feel better, think better, be clearer."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1687.32,"endTime":1692.15,"body":"All of these effects of health that translated into my every day and immediately and what"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1692.15,"endTime":1693.38,"body":"I could accomplish now."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1693.38,"endTime":1696.44,"body":"But I'm starting to see it more in the long term picture."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1696.44,"endTime":1701.24,"body":"I think that these are the net effects, but it was never where I started from personally"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1701.24,"endTime":1703.37,"body":"that I wanted to live longer necessarily."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1703.37,"endTime":1709.73,"body":"I just wanted to experience more of the life that is just here and be more active in it"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1709.73,"endTime":1715.19,"body":"and more present. And if that comes along with what I believe or like to believe is that"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1715.19,"endTime":1718.73,"body":"that also gives its own health benefits, that you are driven, you're motivated, you're"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1718.73,"endTime":1724.88,"body":"into your into the life you have now, will also come with the upside of longevity,"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1725.3,"endTime":1726.79,"body":"because you stay healthier that way."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1726.8,"endTime":1732.17,"body":"Exactly. I think from talking to people like you and other entrepreneurs."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1732.17,"endTime":1733.85,"body":"Yes. Biohackers as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1733.85,"endTime":1739.94,"body":"The acknowledgment that it is more about how we are now and how we will be feeling"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1739.94,"endTime":1744.5,"body":"tomorrow, it is that healthspan as opposed to lifespan?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1744.5,"endTime":1749.15,"body":"I don't think there's - well, there are some people who aspire to genuinely believe that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1749.15,"endTime":1751.91,"body":"they're going to live to be 180 or older than that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1751.91,"endTime":1754.61,"body":"And, you know, there's a lot of skepticism around that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1754.61,"endTime":1759.35,"body":"But I think crucially now, and looking at the times that we're living through, we're"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1759.35,"endTime":1760.82,"body":"almost post-pandemic."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1760.85,"endTime":1766.04,"body":"It's still with us, but we're hopefully coming out of COVID that there is an"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1766.04,"endTime":1771.44,"body":"appreciation, I think a greater appreciation of what good health now and good health"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1771.44,"endTime":1775.34,"body":"tomorrow means to us as individuals and our families."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1775.34,"endTime":1776.36,"body":"You know, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1776.36,"endTime":1780.17,"body":"We see a change in this whole people's approach to health as well."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1780.17,"endTime":1786.47,"body":"And your general orientation about health is less likely to go through medical doctors"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1786.47,"endTime":1788.21,"body":"and pharmacies."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1788.21,"endTime":1792.44,"body":"And people are we see a lot of people are actively looking for solutions for themselves"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1792.44,"endTime":1797.36,"body":"and how this kind of mindset shifting, and that is much broader than a biohacking label."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1797.69,"endTime":1801.62,"body":"I think it's a very encouraging sign that people are looking for solutions like this."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1801.62,"endTime":1803.12,"body":"I totally agree with you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1803.12,"endTime":1807.38,"body":"I'm just wondering and it's interesting that you haven't given that much thought really"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1807.38,"endTime":1812.42,"body":"to the the aging question, but do you have maybe you have thought about it now?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1812.42,"endTime":1817.55,"body":"Do you have aspirations as far as your own lifespan is concerned?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1817.55,"endTime":1819.83,"body":"Does that register at all with you?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1819.83,"endTime":1823.46,"body":"I know there are lots of people that listen to this podcast who are very determined to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1823.46,"endTime":1826.34,"body":"get to at least 80 or 85 or 90 or maybe 100."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1826.34,"endTime":1827.81,"body":"Is the is the goal."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1827.81,"endTime":1829.46,"body":"Yeah, let's put it this way."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1829.46,"endTime":1835.37,"body":"I'm 44 and I think every birthday I've had recently has been a question of is this the"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1835.37,"endTime":1836.72,"body":"midpoint? Is this the midpoint?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1836.72,"endTime":1837.86,"body":"And every year it stretches."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1837.86,"endTime":1839.12,"body":"So it's something like this."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1839.12,"endTime":1843.32,"body":"They always like to think that it's that there is yet twice as much time left."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1843.32,"endTime":1844.58,"body":"I don't know personally."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1844.64,"endTime":1850.04,"body":"I mean, the one important link here and that I have discovered that if I have to reflect"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1850.04,"endTime":1855.35,"body":"on aging now, is that all of the stuff with red light therapy, for example, is I mean, a"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1855.35,"endTime":1857.48,"body":"primary way to take care of yourself."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1857.48,"endTime":1860.96,"body":"You have covered a lot on your show about mitochondrial health."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1860.96,"endTime":1862.16,"body":"We have."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1862.16,"endTime":1867.06,"body":"Recently you had on a very interesting mountaineer who hacked himself using supplements to"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1867.06,"endTime":1869.6,"body":"improve his mitochondria to show that this was possible."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1869.61,"endTime":1874.59,"body":"So I had to think that we should have given him a Flex Beam for that journey and see what"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1874.62,"endTime":1880.11,"body":"happened, because this is one of the most heavily researched and well documented sides of"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1880.11,"endTime":1884.04,"body":"red light therapy. Is this the impact it has on or on your mitochondria?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1884.07,"endTime":1887.49,"body":"The ability of your cells to generate more energy and better?"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1887.58,"endTime":1892.47,"body":"Basically, all your chemical process in the body work more smoothly when the mitochondria"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1892.47,"endTime":1893.97,"body":"are taken well care of."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1893.97,"endTime":1897.69,"body":"And the way the best way to take care of your mitochondria is through light by being"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1897.69,"endTime":1899.97,"body":"exposed to good light as opposed to bad light."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1899.97,"endTime":1905.34,"body":"For my own aging, I just feel like I'm sitting and I'm holding something in my hand that"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1905.34,"endTime":1908.37,"body":"at least gives me a little bit extra runway."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1908.76,"endTime":1909.51,"body":"It's how it feels."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1909.87,"endTime":1912.93,"body":"Well, I think what's interesting from what you say and you refer to that interview about"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1912.93,"endTime":1918.81,"body":"mitochondria and that was focused on Urolithin A the gut metabolite and increasing the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1918.81,"endTime":1922.23,"body":"amount of Urolithin A that's available to our bodies."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1922.23,"endTime":1927.45,"body":"It's interesting to me that there is more than one way to promote the health of something"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1927.45,"endTime":1928.34,"body":"like mitochondria."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1928.35,"endTime":1932.97,"body":"Yeah, certainly, and I think it's a very interesting that it's being the discovery of it,"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1932.97,"endTime":1935.07,"body":"which is also goes far back."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1935.07,"endTime":1939.87,"body":"But this kind of awareness around it, it's very recent, for example, how crucial it is to"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1939.87,"endTime":1940.35,"body":"your health."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1940.62,"endTime":1942.24,"body":"Bjørn this has been really interesting."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1942.24,"endTime":1945.33,"body":"I wish you all the very best with your product."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1945.33,"endTime":1946.67,"body":"I'm going to watch it with interest."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1946.68,"endTime":1947.72,"body":"Thanks a lot for having me on."},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1947.73,"endTime":1948.34,"body":"It was a pleasure."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1948.37,"endTime":1951.27,"body":"And if you'd like to read more dive even deeper into this subject."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1951.27,"endTime":1954.3,"body":"I will put some links into the show notes for this episode."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1954.3,"endTime":1957.99,"body":"At the LLAMA Podcast Website LLAMApodcast.com"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1958.62,"endTime":1962.46,"body":"Thank you so much. And if anyone wants to check out Recharge.Health.com that's also a"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1962.46,"endTime":1967.71,"body":"place to go to, to take a deep dive into a lot of these things that we have discussed"},{"speaker":"Bjørn Ekeberg","startTime":1967.71,"endTime":1967.98,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1968.4,"endTime":1970.38,"body":"This has been a HealthSpan Media production."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1970.38,"endTime":1975.18,"body":"In addition to the one that you're listening to now, we're at all the usual podcasting"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1975.18,"endTime":1981.48,"body":"platforms, including this new one by BuyMeACoffee.com, which also serves as a platform to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1981.48,"endTime":1982.77,"body":"support the podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1982.8,"endTime":1987.06,"body":"Only if you're able and feel that what we do brings you some benefit."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1987.06,"endTime":1992.37,"body":"Our goal is that this podcast will always be free for everyone to listen to on your"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1992.37,"endTime":1993.54,"body":"platform of choice."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1993.54,"endTime":1998.91,"body":"But if you are able to make a small contribution towards the costs, it would be hugely"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1998.91,"endTime":2003.17,"body":"appreciated. Whether you do or not, we'll be back soon and look forward to your company"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2003.17,"endTime":2008.24,"body":"again as we explore the fascinating world of human longevity and good health."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2008.24,"endTime":2009.41,"body":"Thanks so much for listening."}]}