{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":3.09,"endTime":8.7,"body":"In our subconscious minds, we think old is decrepit, bent over, whatever."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":8.73,"endTime":15.72,"body":"So I do try to push back against the toxic ageism that is infusing our culture."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":17.85,"endTime":23.04,"body":"Priscilla Long has written an eye opening book about thriving in old age."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":23.04,"endTime":29.61,"body":"Her optimistic outlook on life is infectious, and the stories she tells are inspiring and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":29.61,"endTime":30.84,"body":"deeply engaging."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":31.08,"endTime":35.03,"body":"Hello again. Welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":35.04,"endTime":36.2,"body":"My name is Peter Bowes."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":36.21,"endTime":41.23,"body":"This is where we explore the science and the stories behind human longevity."},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":41.25,"endTime":46.08,"body":"This episode is brought to you in association with Clinique La Prairie, the award winning"},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":46.08,"endTime":51.09,"body":"spa clinic and pioneering health and wellness destination nestled on the shores of Lake"},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":51.09,"endTime":53.13,"body":"Geneva in Montreux, Switzerland."},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":53.28,"endTime":59.04,"body":"Combining preventative medicine with bespoke lifestyle and nutrition plans, Clinique La"},{"speaker":"SPONSOR MESSAGE","startTime":59.04,"endTime":64.23,"body":"Prairie offers a holistic approach to living fuller, healthier and longer lives."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":65.16,"endTime":70.74,"body":"Priscilla Long is a prolific and award winning author of science, poetry and creative"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":70.74,"endTime":76.62,"body":"nonfiction. She is based in the US city of Seattle, and her latest book is Dancing with"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":76.62,"endTime":82.95,"body":"the Muse in Old Age, combining an understanding of the science with real life experiences"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":82.95,"endTime":89.34,"body":"to help its readers improve their chances of enjoying a satisfying, dynamic, happy,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":89.34,"endTime":92.1,"body":"productive time as they grow older."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":92.1,"endTime":95.68,"body":"Priscilla, welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":95.7,"endTime":97.11,"body":"Thanks for having me, Peter."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":97.11,"endTime":98.01,"body":"It's good to be here."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":98.01,"endTime":99.42,"body":"It's really good to talk to you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":99.42,"endTime":103.56,"body":"I'm going to start with a question that in fact, at the beginning of the book you pose"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":103.56,"endTime":108.66,"body":"for yourself, and that is why focus on aging?"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":109.08,"endTime":115.26,"body":"Well, the first and main reason is that my next birthday will be 8-0 - eighty."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":115.26,"endTime":122.94,"body":"And I thought coming into this new area of life, I should be educated, I should educate"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":122.94,"endTime":129.81,"body":"myself, I should know the science of aging and as much as possible."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":129.81,"endTime":131.03,"body":"I mean, there's a lot of it."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":131.04,"endTime":137.67,"body":"I should not just go along with kind of stereotypes or things you hear on the street."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":137.67,"endTime":140.34,"body":"A lot of there's a lot of misinformation out there."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":140.34,"endTime":147.87,"body":"So, you know, in the first place, I really wanted to know about, for example, most old"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":147.87,"endTime":149.28,"body":"people are happy."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":150.11,"endTime":151.19,"body":"That's science."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":151.19,"endTime":152.33,"body":"That's not my opinion."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":152.33,"endTime":158.72,"body":"I'm pretty happy person, but I'm very interested to know that, for example, it's not"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":158.72,"endTime":164.06,"body":"about cognitive maintenance, it's about cognitive development."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":164.78,"endTime":169.7,"body":"Wow. And then the exercise piece, for example."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":169.7,"endTime":173.66,"body":"So that was the first the real reason."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":173.66,"endTime":176.75,"body":"And then secondly, I just needed models."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":176.75,"endTime":181.91,"body":"I needed many models, as many models of people who are old."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":182.36,"endTime":184.25,"body":"And I'm only 79."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":184.25,"endTime":190.37,"body":"I mean, a lot of the people that I talk about are Wayne Thiebaud was 98 when he started a"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":190.37,"endTime":191.57,"body":"new body of work."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":191.84,"endTime":199.7,"body":"Don Pellmann I think his name is ran the fastest of anyone to I think it was a 100 yard"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":199.7,"endTime":204.41,"body":"sprint at the age of or anyone over 100 to to run that fast."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":204.74,"endTime":208.42,"body":"So I needed a lot of models and I found them."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":208.43,"endTime":211.82,"body":"You've already told us that you're approaching 80 years old."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":211.82,"endTime":217.4,"body":"I'm 60 years old, and I'm deliberately using the phrase 'years old.' And this is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":217.4,"endTime":219.47,"body":"something that you go into in your book."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":219.47,"endTime":224.75,"body":"Sometimes I ask people, and I'm not shy about asking people their age on this podcast,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":224.87,"endTime":229.46,"body":"because this is a podcast about aging and longevity and growing older."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":229.46,"endTime":235.79,"body":"But the use of the word old, some people prefer to say, Oh no, I'm 79 years young because"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":235.79,"endTime":240.56,"body":"they feel as if they don't want to be associated with that word old."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":240.56,"endTime":243.65,"body":"And that's something that you push back against, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":243.65,"endTime":250.4,"body":"I think that that very well meaning expression I'm know or you're oh, you're 90 years"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":250.4,"endTime":257.9,"body":"young is ageist it's because I mean without intending to be is because we think young is"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":257.9,"endTime":260.9,"body":"good and old is bad."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":260.9,"endTime":264.29,"body":"And I think that old is good."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":264.29,"endTime":265.73,"body":"I think young is good, too."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":265.73,"endTime":266.96,"body":"But if you're young."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":266.96,"endTime":269.63,"body":"But I think that old is good."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":269.84,"endTime":273.26,"body":"And so, yes, I push back against that."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":273.26,"endTime":278.51,"body":"And I also like, as you do, I state my age, you know, fairly often."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":278.51,"endTime":285.11,"body":"I'm not constantly stating it, but I stayed it fairly often because people in general"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":285.11,"endTime":289.43,"body":"tend to think historically have tended to think that I was younger than I am."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":289.43,"endTime":293.84,"body":"And I think that's because we think we all do."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":293.84,"endTime":295.88,"body":"This is not just, you know, other people."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":295.88,"endTime":301.94,"body":"We all think that old is decrepit and old is even in our subconscious minds."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":301.94,"endTime":306.56,"body":"We think old is decrepit and bent over and whatever."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":306.56,"endTime":314.21,"body":"So I do try to push back against the sort of the toxic ageism that is infusing our"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":314.21,"endTime":314.9,"body":"culture."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":314.9,"endTime":320.72,"body":"And people don't just have those thoughts about the the bent over old person, the to use"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":320.72,"endTime":323.0,"body":"that word, the decrepit old person."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":323.03,"endTime":324.86,"body":"They're actually fed the images."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":324.86,"endTime":329.3,"body":"We're all fed these images of older people from a very young age."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":329.3,"endTime":333.65,"body":"And for a lot of people, it influences them in terms of their attitude from that very"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":333.65,"endTime":334.37,"body":"young age."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":334.37,"endTime":337.13,"body":"And it's it's really destructive."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":337.13,"endTime":342.74,"body":"And I think Becca Levy's work at the Yale School of Public Health is really interesting,"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":342.74,"endTime":349.88,"body":"in which she has done studies which show that to have that type of negative view of aging"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":350.39,"endTime":357.32,"body":"actually causes you to live, from a young age, it causes people who have negative views"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":357.32,"endTime":360.83,"body":"of aging from a young age, live shorter lives."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":361.13,"endTime":363.62,"body":"It hurts them, it harms them."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":363.62,"endTime":369.5,"body":"And so ageism harms young people and of course old people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":369.5,"endTime":373.58,"body":"And in a similar vein, another expression that through reading your book you're not"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":373.58,"endTime":380.18,"body":"particularly keen on is senior moment, that phrase that is often used by people that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":380.18,"endTime":382.1,"body":"actually varying ages in their lives."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":382.1,"endTime":386.54,"body":"But as you get older, when you typically forget something where you've forgotten you've"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":386.54,"endTime":392.03,"body":"put the keys or forgotten a date or forgotten a birthday, it is excused by saying you're"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":392.03,"endTime":397.64,"body":"having a senior moment, which again, you don't think is a particularly positive use of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":397.64,"endTime":398.3,"body":"words."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":398.3,"endTime":405.14,"body":"The phrase senior moment assumes that when you're old, you're forgetful."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":405.95,"endTime":412.55,"body":"And the studies on this, this is why I wanted to really know what the on going science is"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":412.55,"endTime":420.41,"body":"about all of this, the studies on this are in the first place in communities where elders"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":420.41,"endTime":421.55,"body":"are respected."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":422.3,"endTime":424.43,"body":"The elders don't forget."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":424.52,"endTime":426.29,"body":"I mean, that's astonishing."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":426.74,"endTime":434.99,"body":"Like in traditional Chinese communities in China and the American deaf community, elders"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":435.2,"endTime":436.97,"body":"remember as well as anyone."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":436.97,"endTime":439.91,"body":"So that's in itself very interesting."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":440.0,"endTime":445.97,"body":"And then secondly, we have more information in our brains."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":445.97,"endTime":449.57,"body":"So there was a study with a computer that simulated the human brain."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":451.27,"endTime":455.62,"body":"And it was fed this computer brain was fed more and more information."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":455.62,"endTime":462.16,"body":"And the more information it was fed, the longer the computer took to come up with the the"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":462.16,"endTime":464.4,"body":"right memory, the right answer."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":464.41,"endTime":470.35,"body":"And so this scientist, he said, I believed in the dotage theory, but now I don't."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":471.7,"endTime":473.77,"body":"So we have a lot of information."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":473.77,"endTime":481.39,"body":"We have huge numbers of vocabulary words and huge numbers of names going back decades and"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":481.39,"endTime":486.4,"body":"decades. So if I forget a word, which I do sometimes, but I've always forgotten a word,"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":486.4,"endTime":489.01,"body":"sometimes it's not because I'm old."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":489.01,"endTime":492.64,"body":"I think it's not because I'm old, it's because I've forgotten a word."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":493.15,"endTime":498.7,"body":"One of my examples is I have a native plant garden, which gives me a great deal of"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":498.7,"endTime":500.74,"body":"pleasure in my yard."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":500.74,"endTime":509.02,"body":"And I broke my leg in 2019 and I couldn't basically go into it for almost nine months"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":509.02,"endTime":513.13,"body":"because of the the uneven terrain that I couldn't walk correctly."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":514.0,"endTime":520.81,"body":"So when I went back in, I forgot three of the names of the plants that I myself had"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":520.81,"endTime":527.32,"body":"planted. So I came back inside and I wrote down the names of all the plants that I could"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":527.32,"endTime":529.69,"body":"remember their names, which was 75."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":530.08,"endTime":537.58,"body":"And so I figured, okay, I forgot three, but I remembered 75, which is actually a lot more"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":537.58,"endTime":539.92,"body":"than a lot of people can remember."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":539.92,"endTime":546.91,"body":"So so I just don't believe and also I really think that when we talk about senior moment"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":546.91,"endTime":550.75,"body":"all the time, we're harming ourselves."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":550.78,"endTime":554.29,"body":"It's a negative view of ourselves."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":554.59,"endTime":558.04,"body":"And since I think it's basically false, we should drop it."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":558.04,"endTime":559.06,"body":"We should drop that term."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":559.06,"endTime":563.89,"body":"I think that's really interesting, the fact that as people are some people get older, the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":563.89,"endTime":568.85,"body":"language they use about themselves is almost instinctively negative."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":568.85,"endTime":569.12,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":569.17,"endTime":574.63,"body":"As if throughout their lives they've been building up to this point that life will take a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":574.63,"endTime":580.96,"body":"downturn, that things won't be as good, and then actually use that as an excuse for a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":580.96,"endTime":584.14,"body":"situation or for a type of behavior."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":584.14,"endTime":585.25,"body":"I want to delve into that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":585.25,"endTime":588.88,"body":"But overwhelmingly, the theme of your book is a positive one."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":588.88,"endTime":590.56,"body":"It is an optimistic one."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":590.59,"endTime":593.77,"body":"It is a forward looking attitude that you have."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":593.8,"endTime":597.58,"body":"Before we get into that, maybe you could just tell us a little bit about your life."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":597.58,"endTime":600.97,"body":"I refer to the fact that you are a very prolific writer."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":600.97,"endTime":603.94,"body":"You've written books on many different topics."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":603.94,"endTime":608.26,"body":"Just give me a kind of a quick potted history of what you've done that's brought you up"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":608.26,"endTime":608.98,"body":"to this point."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":608.98,"endTime":610.15,"body":"Well, I am a writer."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":610.15,"endTime":613.63,"body":"I'm a poet, and I'm a science writer also."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":613.63,"endTime":615.28,"body":"And I write books."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":615.28,"endTime":618.34,"body":"I write essays, I write memoir essays."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":618.34,"endTime":620.65,"body":"I compose a poem every week."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":620.65,"endTime":626.68,"body":"And so what I've found, I mean a I should say a draft of a poem, it takes longer to get a"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":626.68,"endTime":628.84,"body":"real poem than a week, but I."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":629.14,"endTime":630.4,"body":"I would take much longer than the week."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":631.12,"endTime":634.27,"body":"That's right. But I give it the good old try."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":634.27,"endTime":640.57,"body":"I produce a non embarrassing, I would call it poem every week,ready to show."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":642.43,"endTime":647.14,"body":"It's very important to me to do this creative work."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":647.5,"endTime":653.44,"body":"My whole communities around most are are writers or poets and not all though of course,"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":653.44,"endTime":659.89,"body":"but when I was like in my twenties and thirties, I worked full time as a printer and I"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":659.89,"endTime":663.31,"body":"struggled to find time to write."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":663.31,"endTime":665.23,"body":"But I did find time to write."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":665.23,"endTime":671.65,"body":"And I think the turning point moment was back in the early eighties."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":671.65,"endTime":677.53,"body":"I read a book called I think it's called Becoming a Writer by Dorothea Brande, where she"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":677.71,"endTime":682.45,"body":"advises to write for 15 minutes a day, which seems like nothing."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":682.45,"endTime":684.43,"body":"Well, that is not nothing."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":684.43,"endTime":691.24,"body":"And that ever since I've written every day, every day, I think the science writing."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":691.24,"endTime":696.88,"body":"I did write a weekly science column for the American Scholar, which is the columns are"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":696.88,"endTime":698.95,"body":"still up, the American Scholar website."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":699.25,"endTime":701.8,"body":"That was just fascinating to do."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":701.8,"endTime":703.81,"body":"Very, very time consuming."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":703.81,"endTime":709.72,"body":"I finally had to stop because I thought I would be losing my poetry if I kept on because"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":709.72,"endTime":717.25,"body":"each column, you know, it went from the Higgs boson to Mars to earthworms to How do birds"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":717.25,"endTime":722.86,"body":"Fly? And so each one took me 30 to 40 hours to find out all the information."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":722.86,"endTime":725.95,"body":"But it was great fun, and I just loved doing it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":725.95,"endTime":730.84,"body":"At the beginning of this project, did you have in your mind what you wanted to achieve"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":730.87,"endTime":734.59,"body":"from this book as you set out to research it and talk to people?"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":734.59,"endTime":737.29,"body":"I needed to know what lies ahead here."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":737.62,"endTime":739.87,"body":"It has really helped me."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":739.87,"endTime":741.91,"body":"That was, I hope, to help others."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":741.91,"endTime":744.4,"body":"I hope to help everyone who reads this book."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":744.4,"endTime":750.0,"body":"And I hope that the people who read it are middle aged and younger as well as older."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":750.0,"endTime":753.32,"body":"Absolutely. Because of how much it has helped me."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":753.56,"endTime":760.1,"body":"For example, the exercise piece, you know, the science is so clear on that."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":760.37,"endTime":761.78,"body":"It's so clear."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":761.87,"endTime":766.37,"body":"I was an and here I'm speaking as a very non-athletic person."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":766.73,"endTime":771.56,"body":"So I'm here to represent the non-athletic persons."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":772.16,"endTime":774.2,"body":"As a child, I could never catch a ball."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":774.2,"endTime":775.34,"body":"I just couldn't do it."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":775.46,"endTime":778.88,"body":"As it turns out, it's because I don't have depth perception."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":779.69,"endTime":781.85,"body":"That's very interesting."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":781.85,"endTime":788.09,"body":"So the exercise piece persuaded me that I don't have to become an athlete."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":788.09,"endTime":789.83,"body":"I don't have to jog marathons."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":789.86,"endTime":791.0,"body":"Neither does anyone."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":791.0,"endTime":795.06,"body":"But those 10,000 steps a day, I always do them now."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":795.06,"endTime":800.62,"body":"I'm bonded to my Fitbit and I do the 10,000 steps."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":800.63,"endTime":801.74,"body":"I find it fun."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":801.74,"endTime":806.57,"body":"I don't find it. And because I don't have depth perception and I don't drive, I walk."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":806.57,"endTime":811.7,"body":"And I live in a place with very good public transportation, but I also walk a lot."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":811.97,"endTime":818.24,"body":"And so I do that every day now, and I find it very gratifying."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":818.24,"endTime":825.26,"body":"I find it a nice time, a nice interlude walking from here to there to get either to the"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":825.26,"endTime":830.57,"body":"coffee shop where I sometimes do work, or to the grocery store or wherever I'm going."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":830.57,"endTime":836.18,"body":"I find it to be this interlude where, you know, you can look at the trees, the people,"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":836.21,"endTime":838.13,"body":"the cars, whatever."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":838.13,"endTime":842.48,"body":"That has really changed for me because of writing this book."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":843.05,"endTime":845.68,"body":"This is the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":845.69,"endTime":847.66,"body":"Our guest is the author Priscilla Long."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":847.67,"endTime":852.05,"body":"We're talking about her book, Dancing with the Muse in Old Age."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":852.05,"endTime":858.77,"body":"On this subject of activity, of movement, of walking, even for a non-athletic person."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":858.77,"endTime":862.82,"body":"What was interesting to me in the book, and it's something that I've explored as well"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":862.82,"endTime":867.17,"body":"myself, and that is how every day movement, it doesn't have to be."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":867.17,"endTime":871.22,"body":"Sometimes the term exercise is a put off for a lot of people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":871.22,"endTime":876.83,"body":"The fact that you have to go out and and run or go to a gym or play a sport, you don't"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":876.83,"endTime":880.94,"body":"have to do that. And I think that is crucial and it perhaps needs spelling out for a lot"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":880.94,"endTime":885.68,"body":"of people that maybe just choosing to wash the dishes by hand rather than using the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":885.68,"endTime":889.28,"body":"machine in the corner of the room will actually be helpful to you because it will take"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":889.28,"endTime":892.58,"body":"you a little longer and it'll involve bodily movement."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":892.61,"endTime":894.11,"body":"Exactly. Yes."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":894.11,"endTime":900.11,"body":"And that is the other learning piece that to get up and go across the room."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":900.11,"endTime":903.2,"body":"I mean, I'm a writer and so and I don't write standing up."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":903.2,"endTime":908.42,"body":"Some writers do write sending up, but I don't but to get up and move around and to you"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":908.42,"endTime":911.99,"body":"know, if you're trying to think of the next thing, get up and pace the floor, that's a"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":911.99,"endTime":913.13,"body":"good way."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":913.91,"endTime":917.24,"body":"Or to do a lot of your own chores."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":917.24,"endTime":922.76,"body":"Some people suggest do your chores, you know, cleaning, mow the grass, walk down the"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":922.76,"endTime":924.32,"body":"street, take the stairs."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":924.32,"endTime":927.07,"body":"All of that is just very helpful."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":927.08,"endTime":933.56,"body":"One thing that you say in the book is that there is nothing more vital to our well-being"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":933.59,"endTime":936.02,"body":"than a connection with others."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":936.02,"endTime":937.4,"body":"The connection with other people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":937.4,"endTime":941.9,"body":"Yes. And again, this this didn't come as a surprise to me because I've looked into this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":941.9,"endTime":944.36,"body":"myself and talked to other people with that view."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":944.36,"endTime":949.1,"body":"But I think it will come as a surprise to some people that as they look at their own"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":949.1,"endTime":955.7,"body":"health and perhaps analyze why they're not doing so good at a certain age, that social"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":955.7,"endTime":958.04,"body":"connections are so crucial."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":958.04,"endTime":959.57,"body":"Why do you think that is?"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":959.57,"endTime":961.94,"body":"Well, we're social animals."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":961.94,"endTime":966.68,"body":"One issue is, as we're growing older is that people predeceased us."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":966.71,"endTime":970.4,"body":"This is a big deal the older you get."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":970.4,"endTime":978.74,"body":"And so it's very necessary to become proactive in finding connections in the arts"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":978.74,"endTime":980.72,"body":"community, which is where I am."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":980.72,"endTime":983.6,"body":"And you know, a lot of people are in the arts community."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":983.6,"endTime":985.01,"body":"It's a wonderful community."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":985.01,"endTime":990.83,"body":"There are so many ways to make connections and so many different groups and different"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":990.83,"endTime":992.45,"body":"activities and so on."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":992.45,"endTime":998.24,"body":"So I think the fact that the older you get, the more of your old friends and family"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":998.24,"endTime":1005.2,"body":"members are predisposing you adds a complication to it where, say, you're a college age"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1005.2,"endTime":1009.73,"body":"student in college, I mean, connections come with the scene."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1009.73,"endTime":1012.1,"body":"I mean, it's hard, you know, that's what you do."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1012.13,"endTime":1016.3,"body":"You make new friends and you go to class together and you party together and whatever."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1016.3,"endTime":1019.42,"body":"But this is not so true as we get older."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1019.42,"endTime":1025.3,"body":"And we also if we change occupations or something like that, then we've lost a whole"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1025.3,"endTime":1032.92,"body":"context. So it's very important to find new connections and to keep and also to cross the"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1032.92,"endTime":1039.19,"body":"age lines, to find connections with younger people, older people, all ages of people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1039.19,"endTime":1040.69,"body":"I think that's really important."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1040.69,"endTime":1044.86,"body":"And again, I think it's something that a lot of people might not think about until"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1044.86,"endTime":1050.79,"body":"they're in that position, if they do enjoy longevity, if they do enjoy getting to a great"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1050.79,"endTime":1053.16,"body":"age, that that is all very well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1053.16,"endTime":1058.5,"body":"But if you're doing better than all of the people around you who, as you say, predecease"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1058.5,"endTime":1060.36,"body":"you who die before you do."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1060.39,"endTime":1063.87,"body":"One of the big problems for older people is loneliness."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1063.87,"endTime":1069.06,"body":"And clearly one of the big solutions to that is, as you say, is mixing with different"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1069.06,"endTime":1074.01,"body":"generations and starting that process as young in life as you can."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1074.01,"endTime":1078.96,"body":"Don't think about it when you get to 90, but try to apply that when you're 40 or 50 Or 60"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1078.96,"endTime":1079.52,"body":"or 70."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1079.53,"endTime":1085.38,"body":"Yes, exactly. I mean, a lot of m`iddle aged people, middle age like I don't know what"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1085.41,"endTime":1089.94,"body":"don't ask me to define middle age, but middle aged people are very busy."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1089.94,"endTime":1091.35,"body":"They're raising their kids."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1091.35,"endTime":1092.43,"body":"They have a job."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1092.43,"endTime":1097.47,"body":"Maybe they have two jobs, they're running a household and they really don't have time to"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1097.47,"endTime":1100.35,"body":"go out and sort of socialize with people they don't know."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1100.35,"endTime":1101.79,"body":"So understood."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1101.79,"endTime":1109.77,"body":"But to just understand that what is going to happen is that your dear friends of your"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1109.77,"endTime":1114.45,"body":"life are going to start predeceasing you, not you're going to maybe you'll predecease"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1114.45,"endTime":1117.18,"body":"some of them, but this has happened to me."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1117.18,"endTime":1124.08,"body":"I mean, I'm only 79 and I've lost at least 15 people, not counting family members, old"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1124.08,"endTime":1128.64,"body":"friends that I've known for many decades and that are dear friends of my life."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1128.64,"endTime":1130.98,"body":"And so that is going to happen."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1130.98,"endTime":1137.76,"body":"And we do need we are social beings and we and we need not only to like, socialize in"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1137.76,"endTime":1142.14,"body":"this like superficial way, but to really connect with people."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1142.14,"endTime":1148.11,"body":"And in fact, that's one reason I tell my age, by the way, because to connect to people,"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1148.11,"endTime":1151.83,"body":"what you're doing partly is you're revealing yourself who you are."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1152.01,"endTime":1157.77,"body":"And if you're pretending to be 60 when you're actually 80, it means you weren't here in"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1157.77,"endTime":1161.19,"body":"1963 in the civil rights movement sitting in."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1161.55,"endTime":1169.5,"body":"And I was so things like that, so thought given to really connecting with people."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1169.5,"endTime":1173.7,"body":"And who do you want to connect with and where are these people?"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1173.85,"endTime":1181.59,"body":"What social circle or social, you know, as a poet, Oh, there's like 17 venues."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1181.59,"endTime":1189.33,"body":"I could go and read my poetry at the open mic and meet people in every endeavor in life."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1189.33,"endTime":1191.85,"body":"There are circles of people doing that."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1191.85,"endTime":1195.66,"body":"There are knitting circles, there are book circles."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1196.83,"endTime":1201.66,"body":"I guess one of the challenges, therefore, for if you want to use this word, influencers,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1201.66,"endTime":1205.49,"body":"people who like you can tell a good story."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1205.5,"endTime":1209.88,"body":"One of the challenges is to get over the notion that you've just been describing to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1209.88,"endTime":1210.99,"body":"younger people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1211.08,"endTime":1217.08,"body":"A) To encourage and nurture younger people in terms of their involvement with older"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1217.08,"endTime":1223.47,"body":"generations, but also for younger people to appreciate the importance of just having"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1223.47,"endTime":1228.93,"body":"multi-generational associations, whether it's people older than them or indeed younger"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1228.93,"endTime":1233.31,"body":"than them. I think there is sometimes a resistance from younger generations to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1233.46,"endTime":1235.2,"body":"acknowledge that notion."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1235.2,"endTime":1242.94,"body":"And I think some of it is that we need to spread around this knowledge about aging better"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1242.94,"endTime":1250.92,"body":"because our society is so infused with toxic ageism that it affects us all."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1250.92,"endTime":1254.73,"body":"I mean, it's just not it's impossible not to be affected by it."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1254.73,"endTime":1257.73,"body":"And it affects young many young people."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1257.73,"endTime":1263.01,"body":"I think young people who have wonderful grandparents are helped very much by that."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1263.31,"endTime":1269.28,"body":"Of course, you know, adolescents and even college students are very involved with the"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1269.28,"endTime":1272.22,"body":"peer group. And that's perfectly that's natural."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1272.31,"endTime":1282.15,"body":"But it's yeah, it's very nurturing to find mentors and to find not only mentors, but"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1282.15,"endTime":1284.73,"body":"people you could teach about something."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1284.73,"endTime":1289.32,"body":"I mean, there are young people that I could learn from about all kinds of things."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1289.32,"endTime":1293.37,"body":"I mean, the obvious one is the technology, but that's just one."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1293.37,"endTime":1299.67,"body":"Everyone has a fund of knowledge and information and things that fascinate them."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1299.67,"endTime":1304.11,"body":"And perspectives and points of view that maybe I don't have."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1304.11,"endTime":1309.18,"body":"So it is fascinating to meet different people from different walks of life, and that"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1309.18,"endTime":1311.46,"body":"includes the intergenerational."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1311.49,"endTime":1314.55,"body":"You use the phrase toxic ageism."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1314.55,"endTime":1320.94,"body":"Do you think that as an issue to be aware of that ageism is underrated?"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1320.94,"endTime":1321.84,"body":"Oh, it totally is."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1321.84,"endTime":1328.17,"body":"We hear about and appreciate the importance of understanding the negative implications of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1328.17,"endTime":1332.73,"body":"racism and of sexism and many other isms."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1332.73,"endTime":1337.32,"body":"But ageism, I get the impression sometimes is one of those things that maybe people know"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1337.32,"endTime":1340.68,"body":"what it means, but it doesn't really concern them too much."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1340.8,"endTime":1344.7,"body":"Exactly. And I think that there is progress."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1345.87,"endTime":1355.46,"body":"You know, there are movements that have made racism more of an issue for people, for"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1355.46,"endTime":1358.13,"body":"white people, say the civil rights movement."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1358.16,"endTime":1359.6,"body":"Now Black Lives Matter."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1359.6,"endTime":1365.78,"body":"I mean, there are movements that sort of have a message like this is how it feels to be"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1365.78,"endTime":1367.04,"body":"in this position."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1367.04,"endTime":1369.83,"body":"And then people some people, you know, learn that."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1369.83,"endTime":1375.02,"body":"And so and there have there has been a movement against ageism, but it hasn't."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1375.41,"endTime":1377.81,"body":"Maggie Kuhn, of course, in the Gray Panthers."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1377.81,"endTime":1381.89,"body":"But in that she was, I guess, the pioneer, unless there's somebody else that they don't"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1381.89,"endTime":1384.83,"body":"know about. But but there needs to be a lot more."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1384.83,"endTime":1393.08,"body":"I mean, and it should be a publicly ongoing campaign of us personally to tell people the"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1393.08,"endTime":1399.89,"body":"science of it as well as, come on, you know, let's not be like Mark Zuckerberg, who said"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1399.89,"endTime":1401.99,"body":"young people are just smarter."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1402.68,"endTime":1404.99,"body":"You know, really, that's just so obnoxious."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1404.99,"endTime":1407.33,"body":"But it's also just not true."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1407.36,"endTime":1408.83,"body":"It's bad science."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1409.16,"endTime":1411.23,"body":"I couldn't agree more. It certainly isn't true."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1411.26,"endTime":1415.76,"body":"One issue that you write about in the book that really fascinates me is retirement."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1416.18,"endTime":1422.81,"body":"And you write about both the positive and negative implications of people who are forced"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1422.81,"endTime":1429.98,"body":"to retire, whether on the one hand, people feel liberated by the process of retiring and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1429.98,"endTime":1435.08,"body":"having a blank page in their diary the next day and the world at their fingertips."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1435.08,"endTime":1440.21,"body":"Whereas others, of course, react negatively to retirement and it clearly seems not to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1440.21,"endTime":1441.06,"body":"suit them very well."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1441.08,"endTime":1447.71,"body":"Well, I think that in the United States, I think forced retire, it's like forced is the"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1447.71,"endTime":1453.83,"body":"keyword here because forced retirement is very destructive."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1453.83,"endTime":1460.97,"body":"And I talk about Ann Truet, the artist who was the sculptor who was forced to retire."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1461.27,"endTime":1467.03,"body":"That would be illegal now in the United States, but of course, across the world, it's it"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1467.03,"endTime":1468.98,"body":"is legal and usual."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1468.98,"endTime":1470.24,"body":"I think. So."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1470.24,"endTime":1474.26,"body":"I think that people should, in my opinion."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1474.44,"endTime":1476.06,"body":"I mean, I'm never going to retire."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1476.06,"endTime":1477.08,"body":"I'm a writer."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1477.35,"endTime":1478.64,"body":"Am I going to retire?"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1478.67,"endTime":1481.69,"body":"Am I going to say, oh, okay, I'm retired now."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1481.7,"endTime":1484.12,"body":"No more poems? I don't think so."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1484.13,"endTime":1485.87,"body":"I don't think you are. No, I hope not."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1486.44,"endTime":1492.35,"body":"And plus, I teach, you know, and teaching a very stimulating to me and very it's hard"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1492.35,"endTime":1498.05,"body":"work, but it's I teach adult writers, developing professional writers, and it's just very"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1498.05,"endTime":1499.19,"body":"stimulating to me."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1499.19,"endTime":1506.09,"body":"And in the way I teach, I give the assignments and I do the assignments that I give and"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1506.09,"endTime":1510.59,"body":"give them. Give my work to the other writers."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1510.71,"endTime":1517.25,"body":"I think if you have a difficult job that you've done, I mean, my sister just retired from"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1517.25,"endTime":1524.12,"body":"she was an ICU nurse and that's a hard job and she was 70 this year."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1524.12,"endTime":1527.93,"body":"And of course, COVID made it even more difficult."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1528.41,"endTime":1532.34,"body":"And so she was happy, She loved and she loved her work."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1532.34,"endTime":1534.92,"body":"I have to say, she and she was really good at it."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1534.92,"endTime":1538.82,"body":"And that's like the most skilled nursing you can get."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1538.82,"endTime":1540.35,"body":"This is the ICU."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1540.35,"endTime":1542.54,"body":"This is the intensive care nursing."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1542.54,"endTime":1547.34,"body":"And she retired and she's having a wonderful time."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1547.34,"endTime":1549.86,"body":"And I think it was great that she did retire."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1550.07,"endTime":1551.18,"body":"She's hiking."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1551.18,"endTime":1552.95,"body":"She's a bird person."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1552.95,"endTime":1555.35,"body":"She's a she's a gardener."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1555.35,"endTime":1556.64,"body":"And this is her first year."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1556.64,"endTime":1563.57,"body":"So we'll see. But I think you can either stay where you are and not retire, which is an"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1563.57,"endTime":1570.5,"body":"option, or retire and then have what we call an encore career, a new mission, whether"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1570.5,"endTime":1577.4,"body":"it's paid or not paid, a new mission, a new skill to learn, a new skill, a new, a new"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1577.4,"endTime":1578.03,"body":"world."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1578.03,"endTime":1582.17,"body":"And in terms of your world, we get the message you are not planning to retire."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1582.17,"endTime":1584.6,"body":"And I'm very happy to hear that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1584.6,"endTime":1587.96,"body":"From what you learned yourself through writing this book."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1587.96,"endTime":1592.37,"body":"Perhaps the things that surprised you or things that you hadn't realized before."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1592.4,"endTime":1595.1,"body":"How do you see the years ahead for you?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1595.13,"endTime":1598.22,"body":"How do you think about your own longevity?"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1598.34,"endTime":1601.19,"body":"Well, I think a lot about it, actually."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1602.18,"endTime":1604.88,"body":"First of all, I plan to write ten more books."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1604.91,"endTime":1606.44,"body":"No, I think. Okay."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1606.47,"endTime":1607.82,"body":"Is that too few?"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1608.3,"endTime":1614.9,"body":"I mean, I'm only 79, so and I actually am not a fast writer, but I, I write several books"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1614.9,"endTime":1616.22,"body":"at a time, typically."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1616.4,"endTime":1621.08,"body":"So is ten is the ambition to write ten more books too modest?"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1621.77,"endTime":1626.87,"body":"I don't know how to answer that question, but yes, we can't control our fate."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1627.23,"endTime":1630.44,"body":"I mean, we could get run over by a truck this afternoon."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1630.59,"endTime":1631.76,"body":"Hopefully not."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1632.06,"endTime":1633.44,"body":"Hopefully not. Yes."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1635.15,"endTime":1638.27,"body":"But I hope to live a long time."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1638.27,"endTime":1646.43,"body":"And as I think most of us do in health, of course, and I at least plan to try to"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1646.43,"endTime":1654.18,"body":"influence that by not only the exercise and how I eat and so on, but also to keep"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1654.18,"endTime":1663.33,"body":"productive. And I think the big challenge in the creative arts is how do you be"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1663.33,"endTime":1665.76,"body":"productive but not repeat yourself?"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1665.91,"endTime":1671.28,"body":"I mean, I've done so much, not only the seven books, but also many, many, many, many"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1671.28,"endTime":1674.64,"body":"articles and poems and and different other writing."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1675.03,"endTime":1684.78,"body":"So how do I go forward and find new doors to open, not repeat myself, not just churn over"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1684.78,"endTime":1692.04,"body":"the same old stuff, but go in new directions with new forms, new discoveries, and new"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1692.04,"endTime":1693.72,"body":"ways of creating?"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1693.72,"endTime":1698.07,"body":"That's a big challenge for the older creator, I think."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1698.25,"endTime":1699.54,"body":"But that's how I see it."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1699.54,"endTime":1702.15,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I live in a little house."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1702.15,"endTime":1705.36,"body":"I love my little house and I hope to stay here forever."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1705.66,"endTime":1711.32,"body":"And when my nephew, I have a little nephew now, he's almost 40."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1711.33,"endTime":1717.72,"body":"But anyway, when he was quite small, he got he had this period of being very anxious"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1717.72,"endTime":1722.28,"body":"about death. And, you know, he was like three or four."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1722.61,"endTime":1729.18,"body":"And I assured him, I said, don't worry, you know, I'm not going to die until I'm 103."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1729.18,"endTime":1730.74,"body":"So don't worry about it."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1730.83,"endTime":1732.12,"body":"It's a long time from now."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1732.24,"endTime":1735.75,"body":"And so now I've changed that to 106."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1735.75,"endTime":1737.55,"body":"I think that's a good time."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1737.55,"endTime":1745.02,"body":"I don't know. So, yeah, I hope to live a long time and live in this house, hopefully, and"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1745.41,"endTime":1752.61,"body":"produce more work and connect with more people and connect with my work more and get to"},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1752.61,"endTime":1755.61,"body":"know people more and learn and learn."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1755.61,"endTime":1758.67,"body":"Learning the piece of learning is really important."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1758.76,"endTime":1761.67,"body":"Well, I think what you're doing is hugely inspiring."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1761.67,"endTime":1765.31,"body":"I think this book is excellent and I would really would recommend it to everyone."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1765.33,"endTime":1769.23,"body":"We've only just touched the surface in terms of the detail that you go into."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1769.5,"endTime":1773.19,"body":"It is richly researched and referenced."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1773.37,"endTime":1777.78,"body":"I really enjoyed reading through the references and it distracted me because I then went"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1777.78,"endTime":1779.4,"body":"off and pursued some of those references."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1779.4,"endTime":1782.1,"body":"It's that kind of book, so I really enjoyed that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1782.1,"endTime":1786.72,"body":"And I just, based on what you've just said, look forward to reading at least another ten"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1786.72,"endTime":1787.98,"body":"from you in the coming yearS."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1787.98,"endTime":1791.46,"body":"Thank you. Thank you so much, Priscilla."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1791.49,"endTime":1793.05,"body":"Priscilla thank you very much indeed for your time."},{"speaker":"Priscilla Long","startTime":1793.05,"endTime":1793.88,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1793.89,"endTime":1798.87,"body":"And if you would like to read the book, I will put a link to it in the show notes for this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1798.87,"endTime":1801.66,"body":"episode. Dancing with the Muse in Old Age."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1801.66,"endTime":1804.81,"body":"You'll find the details in the show notes for the LLAMA podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1804.81,"endTime":1807.19,"body":"It LLAMApodcast.com."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1808.05,"endTime":1810.27,"body":"This has been a HealthSpan Media production."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1810.27,"endTime":1812.4,"body":"You can contact me at Peter Bowes."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1812.4,"endTime":1815.22,"body":"We're also at LLAMA podcast in social media."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1815.7,"endTime":1816.93,"body":"Thank you so much for listening."}]}