{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":3.33,"endTime":9.81,"body":"Having some sort of daily routine, just something that tells you 'I'm in this body."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":9.81,"endTime":11.03,"body":"It's my body."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":11.04,"endTime":15.84,"body":"I'm the boss of my body, and I can progress with this body.'"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":19.35,"endTime":25.35,"body":"Judith Sachs is the founder of Anyone Can Move a program that promotes movement in all of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":25.35,"endTime":30.84,"body":"its forms dancing, walking, swimming as a tool to stay healthy for longer."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":31.05,"endTime":34.61,"body":"Hello again. Welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":34.62,"endTime":40.08,"body":"I'm Peter Bowes. This is where we explore the science and stories behind human longevity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":40.26,"endTime":46.95,"body":"If there is a constant in our lives, it is that the body is built to move and we ignore"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":46.98,"endTime":48.63,"body":"that at our peril."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":48.66,"endTime":54.15,"body":"Judith is a teacher, a certified Dance for PD teacher in the US city of Philadelphia."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":54.18,"endTime":57.5,"body":"That's Dance for People with Parkinson's disease."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":57.51,"endTime":63.75,"body":"And she is a longtime enthusiast for the empowerment of people through movement and music"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":63.75,"endTime":69.84,"body":"in ways that are refreshing, enjoyable, stimulating and creative.Judith Sachs welcome to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":69.84,"endTime":72.27,"body":"the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":72.3,"endTime":73.7,"body":"Thank you so much, Peter."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":73.71,"endTime":75.38,"body":"It's wonderful to be here."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":75.39,"endTime":77.38,"body":"Yeah, great pleasure to talk to you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":77.4,"endTime":81.99,"body":"Looking at the work that you do, it made me think aside from, I guess, breathing and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":81.99,"endTime":85.11,"body":"other essential bodily functions just to stay alive."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":85.11,"endTime":87.3,"body":"Movement is a common denominator, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":87.3,"endTime":91.23,"body":"From the moment that we are born, in fact, probably way before we're born."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":91.23,"endTime":96.6,"body":"But movement stays with us all of our lives, and the challenge is to maintain that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":96.6,"endTime":100.11,"body":"movement to a significant level to benefit our health."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":100.11,"endTime":106.8,"body":"Yes. And actually, science is finding now that even elders such as myself, I'm 75, that"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":106.8,"endTime":112.23,"body":"the best thing that we can possibly do is to I'm not even going to use the word push, but"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":112.23,"endTime":119.46,"body":"to move ourselves beyond where we thought we might actually be moving and to not simply"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":119.46,"endTime":126.21,"body":"be content with maybe a chair yoga class or a little bit of standing meditation with"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":126.36,"endTime":127.71,"body":"Qigong movement."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":127.71,"endTime":134.37,"body":"But to really do something that is both aerobic and cardiovascular and also challenges"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":134.37,"endTime":140.88,"body":"the brain. Because we do know that as we begin moving, there are various different"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":140.88,"endTime":147.63,"body":"centers in the brain, the basal ganglia at the bottom of the brain that controls balance,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":147.63,"endTime":151.95,"body":"which is now my new go to, everybody needs to learn balance."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":152.07,"endTime":157.71,"body":"And also up at the top of the brain where our motor control is."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":157.71,"endTime":163.38,"body":"And since I have been working with people with Parkinson's, a lot of dopamine is is"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":163.38,"endTime":164.46,"body":"created here."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":164.46,"endTime":171.63,"body":"And that's one of the brain hormones that really helps us to move in a smooth and steady"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":171.63,"endTime":177.15,"body":"fashion. So we need to be working on the whole brain and really think about what that"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":177.15,"endTime":179.49,"body":"implies in terms of getting older."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":179.61,"endTime":183.54,"body":"It's interesting and I want to delve into those issues with you, and especially the one of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":183.54,"endTime":188.46,"body":"balance, which I think is fascinating and underestimated by a lot of people as an"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":188.46,"endTime":193.56,"body":"essential tool to to optimize the our ability to to balance as we get older."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":193.56,"endTime":197.4,"body":"Just before we do that, though, let's talk about how you got to this point."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":197.4,"endTime":203.1,"body":"You've got a fairly unique background in terms of the combination of medical experience"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":203.1,"endTime":206.22,"body":"and especially through your parents and a life in the theater."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":206.22,"endTime":210.81,"body":"Yes. So my both my father and my grandfather were physicians."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":211.23,"endTime":214.11,"body":"My grandfather was was known as the Broadway Doc."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":214.11,"endTime":217.89,"body":"He had a lot of the New York Philharmonic as patients."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":217.89,"endTime":220.05,"body":"Eddie Cantor was one of his patients."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":220.17,"endTime":225.63,"body":"And my father, after World War Two, actually went into business with my grandfather and"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":225.63,"endTime":232.44,"body":"he got the girl in the in the bargain - my mother - and I grew up in a medical family"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":232.44,"endTime":238.89,"body":"where my father in those days kept a little black bag up at the foyer of our apartment in"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":238.89,"endTime":239.91,"body":"New York City."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":239.91,"endTime":244.29,"body":"00 in the morning, he was out the door."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":244.36,"endTime":250.62,"body":"Families really counted on the doctor as part of their family to increase wellness."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":250.62,"endTime":256.86,"body":"I have to say, however, that when I once stood on my head in front of my father as I was"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":256.86,"endTime":261.84,"body":"getting all excited about yoga, he said, I don't know why in the world you would want to"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":261.84,"endTime":264.36,"body":"do that and bring all that blood to your brain."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":264.57,"endTime":271.35,"body":"So we had a little bit of contretemps about what makes you a healthy person."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":271.35,"endTime":274.47,"body":"But I do think that it's in my blood."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":274.47,"endTime":282.87,"body":"And what I found as I went into theater and dance was that part of the reason that I"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":282.87,"endTime":288.33,"body":"didn't want to do those as a profession was that it's not really the healthiest thing for"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":288.33,"endTime":293.55,"body":"your brain to always be auditioning and putting yourself in front of people and saying,"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":293.55,"endTime":294.66,"body":"Am I good enough?"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":294.66,"endTime":299.97,"body":"And so what I actually did was I continued to teach those things."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":300.39,"endTime":303.99,"body":"And I went into the book writing business with doctors."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":303.99,"endTime":307.62,"body":"So I collaborated with a variety of different physicians."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":307.65,"endTime":311.51,"body":"I wrote some books myself on movement and stress disorder."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":311.52,"endTime":317.76,"body":"And at the end of all of this, our daughter was about to go to college and we realized we"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":317.76,"endTime":320.39,"body":"needed some more cash in the family."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":320.4,"endTime":325.92,"body":"My husband was also a writer and I got a job with a pharmaceutical marketing company."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":325.92,"endTime":329.91,"body":"One of those places where you write Ask your doctor if X is right for you."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":330.21,"endTime":332.49,"body":"Because I did know about medicine."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":332.49,"endTime":337.2,"body":"I knew about health care, and I did know a lot about the Internet at that point."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":337.41,"endTime":344.43,"body":"And one of my last jobs for them was the distinction between Parkinson's disease and"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":344.43,"endTime":348.81,"body":"essential tremor, which is a difficult but benign condition."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":348.99,"endTime":354.06,"body":"And in looking around for a picture to put on this website, I found 50 people with"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":354.06,"endTime":358.62,"body":"Parkinson's disease doing the Jets and the Sharks from West Side Story."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":359.25,"endTime":363.99,"body":"And when I called to get permission to use the photograph, I called the Mark Morris Dance"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":363.99,"endTime":368.94,"body":"Group in New York City because that was the credit and found that they were training"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":368.97,"endTime":371.52,"body":"teachers in Philadelphia the following weekend."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":371.52,"endTime":374.55,"body":"And I said, Oh my goodness, I'm a dancer."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":374.55,"endTime":376.05,"body":"I would love to go."},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":376.23,"endTime":383.16,"body":"I was at this point 65 years old, and it was the beginning of my new life, which I have"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":383.16,"endTime":391.05,"body":"been living ever since, where I now can in this big stew of information and joy and"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":391.05,"endTime":396.21,"body":"celebration of the body in terms of its movement potential, put all of these things"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":396.21,"endTime":402.57,"body":"together in a variety of new programs, as well as a dance program that I have been doing"},{"speaker":"And if people called at 3","startTime":402.57,"endTime":409.05,"body":"with with people first in studios and then, of course, after zoom in their own homes."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":409.68,"endTime":413.97,"body":"And you are indeed involved in quite a variety of different programs, different"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":413.97,"endTime":419.37,"body":"disciplines, but the central, the dominating factor is movement, hence the name of your"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":419.37,"endTime":421.2,"body":"company. Anyone Can Move."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":421.23,"endTime":426.57,"body":"That's right. And I just go back for a moment to the idea of balance."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":426.6,"endTime":431.13,"body":"It's not just to teach people how to stand on their own two feet."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":431.31,"endTime":436.71,"body":"There's a reason we have that expression, meaning that we feel stable, we feel confident,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":436.71,"endTime":440.64,"body":"We feel like we want to get up every day and go do whatever we have to do."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":440.76,"endTime":443.7,"body":"But balance is also something inside."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":443.7,"endTime":448.41,"body":"And I think again, in the last few years it's been severely shaken."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":448.68,"endTime":455.46,"body":"So what I try to do in all of the work that I do with people is to give them a sense of"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":455.46,"endTime":462.6,"body":"how the brain and the body work together to keep equilibrium and to keep us feeling like"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":463.5,"endTime":469.14,"body":"falling apart is is an interesting expression because it has falling in it, which means"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":469.14,"endTime":470.34,"body":"we are out of control."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":470.34,"endTime":476.22,"body":"We are out of balance and coming apart, meaning everything that we've been trying to"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":476.22,"endTime":479.58,"body":"assimilate is no longer stable."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":479.58,"endTime":481.92,"body":"We don't have that center of gravity."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":481.92,"endTime":485.22,"body":"So that's a big part of what I try to teach people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":485.22,"endTime":488.49,"body":"And this some people would see it as a struggle with balance."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":488.49,"endTime":493.86,"body":"As you get older, it is ultimately part of the aging process and the processes that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":493.86,"endTime":500.85,"body":"you've just described, failures as we get older, I think the the central point is based"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":500.85,"endTime":506.1,"body":"on the work that you do, is that there is something we can do about that failing ability"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":506.1,"endTime":512.25,"body":"to to balance, to stand on one leg or to stand still for a longer period of time, which I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":512.25,"endTime":514.41,"body":"know a lot of people actually find quite challenging."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":514.41,"endTime":518.97,"body":"So I just I just want to go back to a word you just kept using, which was fail."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":519.39,"endTime":524.67,"body":"And I, I just want to try and remove it from everybody's vocabulary."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":524.67,"endTime":530.25,"body":"And and because failure means that there's no recovery."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":530.43,"endTime":534.63,"body":"And I do in fact feel it's a slow process."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":534.63,"endTime":538.89,"body":"My Tai Chi teacher used to say a little, a little, a little, a little."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":538.89,"endTime":545.4,"body":"And each day, if that's all you can do, if standing still is all you can do, actually"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":545.4,"endTime":548.16,"body":"balance in terms of what we need it for."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":548.19,"endTime":554.01,"body":"We don't have to stand on one leg, but we have to perambulate across the floor, which"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":554.01,"endTime":557.85,"body":"means that and if we were on video, I'd show you."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":557.85,"endTime":564.15,"body":"But we have to have one heavy leg when we take that first step and then our back leg"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":564.15,"endTime":565.5,"body":"becomes the light leg."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":565.5,"endTime":571.23,"body":"And for a second we have to take it off the floor as we bring it in front of that first"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":571.23,"endTime":573.51,"body":"leg. And that's how we walk."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":573.51,"endTime":575.43,"body":"That's how humans move."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":575.58,"endTime":577.32,"body":"We don't walk on all fours."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":577.32,"endTime":580.17,"body":"We would have a little bit more balance maybe if we did."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":580.83,"endTime":586.2,"body":"But I just talked to people mostly about moving on two feet, but there is always a"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":586.2,"endTime":588.33,"body":"possibility for better balance."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":588.33,"endTime":594.84,"body":"And one of the things we do in class is simply shift weight from one foot to another"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":594.84,"endTime":599.52,"body":"foot. You don't ever have to take a foot off the floor and then when you feel up to it."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":600.03,"endTime":604.8,"body":"You just begin to really make that first leg heavy and the second leg light."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":604.8,"endTime":609.42,"body":"It's interesting to me and this is perhaps at a more extreme level, but I used to take"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":609.42,"endTime":616.13,"body":"part in obstacle course race events, and one of the challenges was a balance beam."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":616.14,"endTime":620.84,"body":"And this is a beam probably standing five or six feet in the air."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":620.85,"endTime":624.03,"body":"And initially I actually found it very, very difficult."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":624.09,"endTime":628.77,"body":"Much more difficult than some of the larger jumps or some of the more challenging"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":628.77,"endTime":633.87,"body":"obstacles. But I built one at home and just practiced and practiced and practiced every"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":633.87,"endTime":636.87,"body":"day and significantly got better."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":636.96,"endTime":641.01,"body":"It was a matter of getting on there, focusing and using my arms."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":641.01,"endTime":646.02,"body":"But after quite a short period of time, I gave myself confidence, which I think was a big"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":646.02,"endTime":650.46,"body":"part of it, but actually got better to the point that I could get from A to B without"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":650.46,"endTime":652.89,"body":"needing anyone to hold my hand at the side."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":652.89,"endTime":659.13,"body":"Absolutely. Now, one of the hardest things about a balance beam or a tightrope, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":659.13,"endTime":664.62,"body":"not going to suggest that anybody out there listening to this podcast do this is that we"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":664.62,"endTime":666.42,"body":"don't have a broad base, right?"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":666.42,"endTime":668.61,"body":"I don't know how wide your balance beam was."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":668.61,"endTime":672.15,"body":"I'm assuming it was maybe 4 to 6 inches."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":672.16,"endTime":674.31,"body":"I was going to say four inches thereabouts.Yes."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":674.31,"endTime":675.93,"body":"Four inches, yes."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":675.93,"endTime":679.95,"body":"So that's a very tough it's almost like a tightrope."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":680.16,"endTime":685.14,"body":"And what we want to do is get people to balance while they have a nice broad center of"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":685.14,"endTime":691.23,"body":"gravity so that each foot the nice thing about the human body is it's kind of divided in"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":691.23,"endTime":696.37,"body":"half from the torso and trunk to the two legs that split out on either side."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":696.39,"endTime":702.24,"body":"One of the reasons that people fall a lot as they get older is they get one foot tangled"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":702.24,"endTime":706.83,"body":"up in front of the other as though they were going to be on a balance beam or they were"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":706.83,"endTime":708.33,"body":"going to be on a tightrope."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":708.45,"endTime":714.42,"body":"And what we want to do is get them to stand like a sumo wrestler to begin with so that"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":714.42,"endTime":716.91,"body":"they have that great broad base."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":717.0,"endTime":720.15,"body":"We think of the body as having a center of mass."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":720.15,"endTime":725.43,"body":"So you're the bottom half of you is obviously heavier than the top half of you."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":725.46,"endTime":730.05,"body":"You want that center to be balanced in between the two legs."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":730.08,"endTime":736.71,"body":"Now, for some people who have had a stroke or people who have in any way had a cardiac"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":736.71,"endTime":742.05,"body":"rehab, where one side of the body started to be a little bit weaker than the other."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":742.05,"endTime":744.96,"body":"We have to work toward that very slowly."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":744.96,"endTime":750.63,"body":"And again, anybody out there who has had balance problems and who is falling, I would"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":750.63,"endTime":756.78,"body":"really recommend having a great either Tai chi teacher or some kind of physical therapist"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":756.78,"endTime":758.76,"body":"who can work with you on this."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":758.76,"endTime":760.89,"body":"But it's definitely possible."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":760.89,"endTime":765.93,"body":"And we can remove the word fail from the idea of balancing."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":765.93,"endTime":772.56,"body":"Part of it also, Peter, I think is in our mind, not the brain, but in the mind."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":772.56,"endTime":778.29,"body":"As you said, as you practiced more each day, you became more confident, You got up there"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":778.29,"endTime":783.15,"body":"and you said, Oh, I remember the brain says, I remember doing that."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":783.15,"endTime":784.71,"body":"I did it before."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":784.74,"endTime":789.15,"body":"It was tough, but let's see if I can do maybe a little bit more today."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":789.36,"endTime":795.36,"body":"Some days will be better than others because we wake up in a new body every day, but we"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":795.36,"endTime":797.58,"body":"have to give ourselves the opportunity to do it."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":797.58,"endTime":802.32,"body":"And having some sort of daily routine, some sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":802.32,"endTime":808.08,"body":"It doesn't have to be the balancing, but just something that tells you, I'm in this body."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":808.08,"endTime":809.34,"body":"It's my body."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":809.34,"endTime":814.05,"body":"I'm the boss of my body and I can progress with this body."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":814.05,"endTime":819.42,"body":"And I guess one of the essential components here is that we do things in our lives that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":819.42,"endTime":825.36,"body":"can help with issues like balance before it becomes a significant issue for us."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":825.36,"endTime":829.47,"body":"And essentially at an extreme level, I suppose that's what I was doing because that was"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":829.47,"endTime":834.42,"body":"to take part in a competition, but it wasn't something that was affecting my everyday"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":834.42,"endTime":840.51,"body":"life. But I guess ultimately it was beneficial just on the assumption that as we age"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":840.51,"endTime":844.05,"body":"balance could well become an issue for us."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":844.05,"endTime":848.61,"body":"What can we do in younger life apart from just acknowledging it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":848.64,"endTime":851.37,"body":"What can we do to help ourselves as we grow older?"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":851.37,"endTime":853.8,"body":"Again, we should be doing this at every age."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":853.8,"endTime":858.69,"body":"And you're absolutely right that once when your body is in the best condition it's been"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":858.69,"endTime":866.25,"body":"in, so if you're in your thirties or forties, that this is the time to really stay on top"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":866.25,"endTime":871.36,"body":"of all that kind of new appreciation of what it can do."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":871.38,"endTime":877.59,"body":"So I would say starting something new and I go back to my wonderful Tai Chi teacher who"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":877.59,"endTime":879.96,"body":"talked about having beginner's mind."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":879.96,"endTime":887.22,"body":"And after you've done whatever your swimming or your tennis or your volleyball for years"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":887.22,"endTime":891.99,"body":"and years and years, it's not that it becomes boring, but your body is sort of clicking"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":891.99,"endTime":894.84,"body":"into that mode and that's wonderful."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":894.87,"endTime":899.43,"body":"It's wonderful to be doing that and to have whatever they used to call cross training."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":899.77,"endTime":904.72,"body":"So that you're doing something that is, say, you know, speed walking and something that"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":904.72,"endTime":905.85,"body":"is tennis."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":905.86,"endTime":908.49,"body":"I just started tennis at 75."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":908.5,"endTime":915.4,"body":"Okay. So the idea of having beginner's mind means you haven't done that thing 10,000"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":915.4,"endTime":918.37,"body":"times. And I go back to my tennis."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":918.37,"endTime":924.91,"body":"I did play when I was, I guess 14 or 15 and then, you know, so I haven't played in a"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":924.91,"endTime":930.79,"body":"while. However, I know a whole lot more about exercise physiology now than I did then."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":930.79,"endTime":935.83,"body":"And I am so aware now of the fact that I have to be pivoting."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":935.83,"endTime":940.36,"body":"I have to move my trunk in opposition to my legs."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":940.36,"endTime":947.29,"body":"My arm has to extend and reach out with the tennis racket and my brain has to say, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":947.29,"endTime":948.97,"body":"that's where that ball is."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":949.0,"endTime":952.0,"body":"Go, go try and make contact with it."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":952.24,"endTime":958.81,"body":"And when I first began doing this, the 10,000 things that I had to think about were"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":958.81,"endTime":964.09,"body":"overwhelming. And luckily I have a partner who sort of at the same level that I am."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":964.63,"endTime":969.55,"body":"She's 20 years younger, but again, had not done this in a very, very long time."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":969.7,"endTime":974.71,"body":"And as we were working with one another and we specifically didn't want to do I don't"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":974.71,"endTime":976.48,"body":"know if you know what pickleball is."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":976.48,"endTime":977.74,"body":"Oh, I've heard a lot of people talk."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":977.8,"endTime":982.27,"body":"I've never played pickleball, but a lot of people, a lot of friends are getting involved."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":982.27,"endTime":983.89,"body":"So people move."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":984.55,"endTime":991.0,"body":"They move to that because it's it's about half the size of a tennis court and there are"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":991.0,"endTime":993.31,"body":"four people playing as opposed to two."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":993.34,"endTime":997.78,"body":"So that's one eighth the amount of space you have to move."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":997.93,"endTime":1002.1,"body":"And the racket is more like a very large ping pong racket."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1002.22,"endTime":1005.52,"body":"And I thought, I don't know, I don't want to do that."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1005.52,"endTime":1011.1,"body":"I want to have beginner's mind about tennis because I know that part of my body has"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1011.1,"endTime":1016.41,"body":"muscle memory for how I used it in in the old days."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1016.41,"endTime":1022.86,"body":"And sure enough, I would say we've now been playing maybe two or three times a week for a"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1022.86,"endTime":1025.95,"body":"couple of months and we are amazed."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1026.1,"endTime":1027.48,"body":"We still can't serve."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1027.67,"endTime":1031.92,"body":"But but we are getting this thing back and forth over the net."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1031.92,"endTime":1033.66,"body":"Both forehand and backhand."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1033.66,"endTime":1037.89,"body":"Backhand is just like, Oh, oh my goodness, it's so hard."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1038.13,"endTime":1044.1,"body":"The more that we do this, the less of those 10,000 things we have to think about."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1044.1,"endTime":1049.98,"body":"So I go back to your initially saying, why do you start this when you're 30 or 40?"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1049.98,"endTime":1051.81,"body":"You want that muscle memory."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1051.81,"endTime":1059.22,"body":"You want the idea that the body remembers how it reacted when something came at it."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1059.52,"endTime":1067.71,"body":"And then when you get to be 75 and a kid is coming past you on a skateboard, you had that"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1067.71,"endTime":1073.56,"body":"muscle memory to immediately dodge, pivot, turn and get out of the way of the skateboard"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1073.56,"endTime":1075.48,"body":"so that you don't fall over."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1075.48,"endTime":1081.6,"body":"And I cannot tell you, sadly, how many of my contemporaries have had an experience like"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1081.6,"endTime":1086.43,"body":"that. You have to be the body wants to be alert."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1086.64,"endTime":1094.38,"body":"And so rather than than use the bad word you used, I'm going to use if the body is"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1094.38,"endTime":1098.01,"body":"slightly stiffer, it's slightly going to sleep."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1098.01,"endTime":1101.49,"body":"It's less reactive as we get older."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1101.49,"endTime":1108.99,"body":"And there certainly are a variety of physiological things that that slow down or cramp"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1108.99,"endTime":1115.08,"body":"up. But the muscle memory gives us that ability to have beginner's mind."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1115.08,"endTime":1116.7,"body":"At the moment we need it."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1116.7,"endTime":1123.78,"body":"So if a projectile is coming toward us like a skateboarder, we can safely get out of the"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1123.78,"endTime":1124.29,"body":"way."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1124.34,"endTime":1128.16,"body":"I think what's interesting is and you've just nicely described really what is a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1128.16,"endTime":1134.16,"body":"combination of activity that exercises both your mind and your body."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1134.16,"endTime":1139.65,"body":"It is both physical and mental and it is the, I says, quite unique combination of those"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1139.65,"endTime":1144.24,"body":"two extremes at the same time that is benefiting you."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1144.24,"endTime":1145.89,"body":"I think that's really true."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1145.89,"endTime":1152.73,"body":"And I have been working this this past two years on a program where I deal with couples"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1152.73,"endTime":1159.3,"body":"where one of them has some kind of movement disorder, has has been ill, has been injured,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1159.3,"endTime":1162.42,"body":"and the other has been called the care partner."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1162.42,"endTime":1168.45,"body":"So we had when they came to me, a patient and a care partner, and I have said in this"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1168.45,"endTime":1174.75,"body":"program, which is called close contact for couples, I want both of you to be helping each"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1174.75,"endTime":1179.91,"body":"other. I want both of you to have that beginner's mind about your relationship."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1179.91,"endTime":1184.5,"body":"Many of these people have been married for 40, 50 years."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1184.59,"endTime":1191.7,"body":"But I want both of you to be the assistant and the assisted and to whatever extent you"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1191.7,"endTime":1197.13,"body":"can do it. Some people are in wheelchairs, but they may be able to help their partner,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1197.13,"endTime":1199.38,"body":"say, with a hand exercise."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1201.17,"endTime":1208.49,"body":"It's again getting into the mindset of I'm not helpless, I'm not old and forgotten."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1208.49,"endTime":1214.76,"body":"And I do feel that the younger you start this kind of participation with somebody else,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1214.76,"endTime":1221.06,"body":"and if you are by yourself living alone, that you again are using yourself as a partner"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1221.06,"endTime":1222.44,"body":"to encourage yourself."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1222.44,"endTime":1227.0,"body":"Each day you can have two of you on either side of your mental ability."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1227.51,"endTime":1232.94,"body":"And it doesn't mean that there aren't days when you feel like, Oh, this is just so hard."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1232.94,"endTime":1235.01,"body":"I mean, it really it really is."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1235.01,"endTime":1241.37,"body":"And I have to say, perseverance is is everything on days when you don't have so much"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1241.37,"endTime":1247.13,"body":"energy. That would be a great day to do some chair yoga or some qigong just standing."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1247.43,"endTime":1249.77,"body":"But it really adds up."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1249.77,"endTime":1251.51,"body":"The benefit really adds up."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1289.07,"endTime":1294.9199999999998,"body":"And you mentioned earlier that you work with people with Parkinson's disease dancing in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1294.9199999999998,"endTime":1297.11,"body":"particular. How does that work?"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1297.11,"endTime":1304.82,"body":"So I come from a 20 year program called Dance for Parkinson's, which was piloted by the"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1304.82,"endTime":1311.54,"body":"Mark Morris Dance Group 20 years ago, when one of the audience members in a talkback with"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1311.54,"endTime":1318.2,"body":"with Mark Morris asked if there could be a class for people who had a movement disorder."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1318.2,"endTime":1322.97,"body":"Because just the way that a dancer has to think, Oh, I'm going to take my arm and I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1322.97,"endTime":1327.29,"body":"going to make a beautiful, smooth arc with it, how do I do that?"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1327.29,"endTime":1335.09,"body":"How does my brain tell my arm where to move in space, with what texture, with what speed,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1335.21,"endTime":1336.62,"body":"with what cadence?"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1337.28,"endTime":1342.05,"body":"In the same way a person with a movement disorder, whether it's Parkinson's or MS or"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1342.05,"endTime":1347.54,"body":"somebody recovering from a stroke, they also have to think like that or essential tremor."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1347.54,"endTime":1354.1399999999999,"body":"How do I get that spoon to my mouth so that I can have the soup that I wanted for lunch?"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1354.4099999999999,"endTime":1358.55,"body":"So in a dance class, we deal with that all the time."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1358.55,"endTime":1362.48,"body":"We deal with the rhythm of movement, we deal with the quality."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1362.51,"endTime":1364.01,"body":"Is it going to be soft?"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1364.01,"endTime":1365.1499999999999,"body":"Is it going to be jerky?"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1365.1499999999999,"endTime":1370.22,"body":"Is it going to fit the the marching beat of the music we play, or is it going to go"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1370.22,"endTime":1375.47,"body":"against that? Sometimes we will create a piece together, but we also do a lot of"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1375.47,"endTime":1381.23,"body":"improvization, and that means the dancers have to use their brain to think, think ahead."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1381.47,"endTime":1387.98,"body":"But what we do is we'll sometimes pick music specifically that will evoke a particular"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1387.98,"endTime":1394.28,"body":"mood. And most of the people in these classes, if they danced, maybe they went to dancing"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1394.28,"endTime":1398.69,"body":"school a little girls who did ballet or tap when they were five or six."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1398.69,"endTime":1404.99,"body":"Most of the people in these classes have never danced, and so they have beginner's mind"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1404.99,"endTime":1408.95,"body":"about how do I want the body to move to music?"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1409.4299999999998,"endTime":1414.71,"body":"And I feel that a lot of the work of myself and all of the dance teachers, this is an"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1414.71,"endTime":1416.1499999999999,"body":"international program."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1416.1499999999999,"endTime":1422.1799999999998,"body":"I think it's in something like 40 states of the United States and maybe 46 countries"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1422.1799999999998,"endTime":1423.29,"body":"around the world."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1423.59,"endTime":1427.3999999999999,"body":"All of us teachers come from a particular dance background."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1427.49,"endTime":1432.74,"body":"I studied with Alvin Ailey when I was very young with Arthur Mitchell from the New York"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1432.74,"endTime":1438.1399999999999,"body":"City Ballet. I also did a lot of Bob Fosse type jazz things."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1438.1399999999999,"endTime":1444.5,"body":"I also, oddly enough, studied flamenco and Indian Bharatanatyam dance when I was a"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1444.5,"endTime":1446.84,"body":"teenager at a dance camp."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1446.84,"endTime":1451.52,"body":"And I bring all of those things into the Dance for Parkinson's program."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1452.12,"endTime":1458.4199999999998,"body":"We may be doing seated dancing where we are imagining walking through a jungle in India"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1458.4199999999998,"endTime":1460.46,"body":"and we are being the elephant."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1460.46,"endTime":1466.55,"body":"So our arm is being the elephant's trunk, and then our head is rearing back and forth to"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1466.55,"endTime":1468.79,"body":"take the trunk up in the air and down."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1468.8,"endTime":1470.51,"body":"I hope you can all imagine this."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1471.32,"endTime":1479.03,"body":"And then we can become a flower using our hands to bring fingers together and then a fan"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1479.03,"endTime":1480.9199999999998,"body":"as we take fingers apart."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1481.1299999999999,"endTime":1487.76,"body":"So a lot of it has to do with the imagery that we as teachers offer to students who,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1487.76,"endTime":1493.25,"body":"again, they may not know what plié is or what a pas de chat is."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1493.55,"endTime":1500.54,"body":"We try to stay away from jargon and simply use the idea of this is a movement that can"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1500.54,"endTime":1502.25,"body":"turn into a dance."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1502.25,"endTime":1504.11,"body":"And you mentioned music."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1504.11,"endTime":1509.87,"body":"We talked on this podcast before about the power of music, especially with people with"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1509.87,"endTime":1517.46,"body":"neurodegenerative conditions, that ability of music to activate something in the brain or"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1517.46,"endTime":1522.98,"body":"the mind, however you want to describe it,associated with physical activity is quite"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1522.98,"endTime":1525.83,"body":"extraordinary. I've seen it myself in people with Alzheimer's."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1525.83,"endTime":1530.96,"body":"How it can just ignite something that is is clearly there, and whether it is muscle"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1530.96,"endTime":1536.51,"body":"memory or something else that in effect brings people back to life in some respects."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1536.6299999999999,"endTime":1542.78,"body":"Yes. A colleague and friend of mine made a film called Alive Inside, where it is"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1542.78,"endTime":1549.02,"body":"demonstrated people who had been in vegetative states from dementia for years and years,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1549.03,"endTime":1553.6699999999998,"body":"their their children or grandchildren were asked, well, what kind of music did he like"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1553.6699999999998,"endTime":1555.1399999999999,"body":"when he was a teenager?"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1555.32,"endTime":1557.81,"body":"And they put headphones on these people."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1557.81,"endTime":1565.85,"body":"And it is it is simply astonishing, the wakeup that happens in the brain and watching"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1565.85,"endTime":1567.05,"body":"bodies move."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1567.32,"endTime":1575.84,"body":"In one instance in this film, the person was a Broadway dancer in the 1930s or forties,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1575.84,"endTime":1582.05,"body":"and they actually played a clip from a show that he had been in and his feet began doing"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1582.05,"endTime":1586.9099999999999,"body":"the choreography that he had done 50 years earlier."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1587.06,"endTime":1589.19,"body":"So, yes, it is extraordinary."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1589.19,"endTime":1595.19,"body":"I, too, in my own class have seen people walk in with profound tremor, with enormous"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1595.19,"endTime":1601.31,"body":"contracture. That means when the body is completely like turned into itself, very rigid"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1601.55,"endTime":1605.24,"body":"hump back and head facing down."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1605.24,"endTime":1614.09,"body":"And I turn on whatever, whether it's blues or jazz, big band sound, sometimes gospel from"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1614.09,"endTime":1615.8,"body":"the African American church."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1615.98,"endTime":1625.04,"body":"And there is an extraordinary reaction of a recognition of the brain to something that"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1625.07,"endTime":1629.03,"body":"eases perhaps some of the symptomology."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1629.03,"endTime":1634.1299999999999,"body":"But there is actual research about the production of dopamine and the fact that different"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1634.1299999999999,"endTime":1640.01,"body":"areas in the brain can light up when certain areas have been deadened."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1640.04,"endTime":1645.5,"body":"So it's not that suddenly they're producing dopamine because when they walk out of class,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1645.5,"endTime":1651.6499999999999,"body":"they may have the same tremor, but the brain is such an amazing interior space, we don't"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1651.6499999999999,"endTime":1654.83,"body":"really understand its potential at all yet."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1655.25,"endTime":1660.11,"body":"When we do, we hope to cure Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1660.35,"endTime":1666.56,"body":"But at the moment we can be using music for this beneficial and healing effect that it"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1666.56,"endTime":1667.22,"body":"has."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1667.25,"endTime":1671.9299999999998,"body":"And what do you think this knowledge of the beneficial healing effects of music, what do"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1671.9299999999998,"endTime":1677.8999999999999,"body":"you think it tells us about how we live our lives and the younger years in our twenties,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1677.8999999999999,"endTime":1679.21,"body":"thirties, forties?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1679.22,"endTime":1683.9299999999998,"body":"It can have this extraordinary effect on people in later life with some of these"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1683.9299999999998,"endTime":1685.61,"body":"conditions that you talk about."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1685.61,"endTime":1688.94,"body":"But surely it's there to help us as we're younger as well."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1688.97,"endTime":1694.07,"body":"It certainly is. And I think the fact that you see people all over walking around with the"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1694.07,"endTime":1698.6599999999999,"body":"earbuds in kind of driving down the street is is great."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1698.75,"endTime":1704.6,"body":"One of the things that concerns me is the decibel level that a lot of young people use to"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1704.6,"endTime":1713.6299999999999,"body":"listen to their music and sometimes the the lack of variety, because I do feel that music"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1713.6299999999999,"endTime":1718.25,"body":"is not just this great big block of stuff called music."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1718.55,"endTime":1725.1499999999999,"body":"There's such a variety, just the way there is of dance, and that the more people can"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1725.1499999999999,"endTime":1731.72,"body":"begin to incorporate different types of music, different performances of music, even if"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1731.72,"endTime":1737.48,"body":"you listen to one person sing Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, and then you listen to Leonard"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1737.48,"endTime":1742.8799999999999,"body":"Cohen sing Hallelujah, you get a whole different flavor, same deal."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1742.8799999999999,"endTime":1750.98,"body":"If you listen to Handel's Messiah, sung by one group in Africa as opposed to a group in"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1750.98,"endTime":1754.3999999999999,"body":"in New York City, there's a big flavor difference."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1754.6399999999999,"endTime":1757.52,"body":"This is the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1757.52,"endTime":1762.99,"body":"Our guest for this episode is Judith Sachs, the founder of Anyone Can Move."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1762.99,"endTime":1769.07,"body":"Now,Judith, what do you say to people who and maybe I will use that word again who feel"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1769.1,"endTime":1774.53,"body":"that they are failing and might say, actually, you know, I can't move anymore."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1774.56,"endTime":1780.4099999999999,"body":"People who almost feel defeated by the aches and pains that come with aging and that can"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1780.4099999999999,"endTime":1783.53,"body":"happen in fifties, sixties, seventies."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1783.53,"endTime":1786.23,"body":"It's a different time for all of us."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1786.23,"endTime":1791.48,"body":"But there are many people, perhaps including myself, at certain times, where you almost"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1791.48,"endTime":1795.1499999999999,"body":"feel defeated by what you feel is happening to you."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1795.1699999999998,"endTime":1797.54,"body":"I certainly know people who feel that way."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1797.54,"endTime":1803.9299999999998,"body":"I have a very dear friend who has had a variety of different physical problems throughout"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1803.9299999999998,"endTime":1811.22,"body":"his midlife to later life, and rather than just sounding like a cheerleader, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1811.22,"endTime":1815.72,"body":"always ask people, they always say, you know, the movement you will do is the movement"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1815.72,"endTime":1816.8899999999999,"body":"you enjoy doing."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1817.1,"endTime":1822.53,"body":"But if somebody does not have that background, they don't have that past of playing"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1822.53,"endTime":1828.08,"body":"sports or going for walks in the woods where everything is beautiful and it smells good,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1828.1699999999998,"endTime":1833.33,"body":"or going to a dance class or a fencing class, if they don't have that."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1833.36,"endTime":1840.1599999999999,"body":"I mean, I, I would suggest finding another person, maybe not the person they live with"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1840.1599999999999,"endTime":1846.73,"body":"because they will be too familiar with the 'Oh, I can't do it today.' But to find a buddy"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1847.51,"endTime":1857.23,"body":"who is not an Olympic walker or jumper or whatever, but is a person of of about their own"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1857.95,"endTime":1865.09,"body":"physical ability and perhaps in their generation and then that the two of you make a kind"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1865.09,"endTime":1870.82,"body":"of pact you know we'll start out once a week and one of us is going to pick what we do."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1870.82,"endTime":1877.6299999999999,"body":"And I think I mean, going for a walk right now is is kind of the best beginning."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1878.23,"endTime":1880.72,"body":"Going for a walk in a place you don't know."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1880.72,"endTime":1882.73,"body":"Again, it gives you a beginner's mind."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1882.73,"endTime":1888.1299999999999,"body":"I found that during COVID, I live right in the middle of the city and I would get in the"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1888.1299999999999,"endTime":1893.59,"body":"car and drive 10 minutes to this bird sanctuary that was right next to the airport."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1893.59,"endTime":1897.97,"body":"I have no idea why it's there, but it was my saving grace."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1897.97,"endTime":1904.12,"body":"I would go early in the morning and I would see birds and I would not hear traffic."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1904.24,"endTime":1911.5,"body":"And walking through the woods really made me feel much more in control of my emotions."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1911.6799999999998,"endTime":1916.06,"body":"And I think that defeatist attitude, again, it was pervasive."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1916.06,"endTime":1918.37,"body":"It still is in many cases."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1918.37,"endTime":1924.07,"body":"But I think having somebody to do this with to be able to make a commitment, I mean, one"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1924.07,"endTime":1929.44,"body":"of the reasons perhaps that I have started tennis and continue tennis is it takes two."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1930.1,"endTime":1931.51,"body":"There are two of us."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1931.75,"endTime":1937.6599999999999,"body":"Not that one day I may say, oh, I just can't do it today or it's too hot outside, then"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1937.6599999999999,"endTime":1940.54,"body":"find something to do together inside."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1940.54,"endTime":1945.83,"body":"There are a bazillion things that you can look at on you."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1945.85,"endTime":1950.9199999999998,"body":"Just Google easy exercise for the top of the body."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1950.9199999999998,"endTime":1953.11,"body":"If you have an Apple Watch."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1953.11,"endTime":1954.52,"body":"Oh my goodness."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1954.52,"endTime":1958.6,"body":"You have an entire fitness library."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1959.02,"endTime":1965.86,"body":"I have to say most of the instructors are very young, which I find kind of not so great."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1965.86,"endTime":1973.57,"body":"But there's one young man who has a prosthetic leg and there's another woman of size who"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1973.57,"endTime":1975.04,"body":"is one of the instructors."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1975.04,"endTime":1982.1499999999999,"body":"And that is very exciting for me to see that no one in in the Apple family is considered"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1982.1499999999999,"endTime":1986.77,"body":"either debilitated or not appropriate as a teacher."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1986.77,"endTime":1993.19,"body":"And you can, of course, because you are by yourself with your device, you can do as much"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1993.19,"endTime":1994.48,"body":"or as little as possible."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":1994.48,"endTime":2000.48,"body":"I think when I told a friend of mine about this who was again, not an exerciser and"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2000.48,"endTime":2004.74,"body":"there's a range of things you can do from yoga and meditation, you can just do the"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2004.74,"endTime":2010.53,"body":"cooldown. The cooldown is 10 minutes and really just involves breathing."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2010.53,"endTime":2013.4099999999999,"body":"That is one of the best ways to start."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2014.19,"endTime":2020.73,"body":"And I again, I don't like to use the word exercise or get in shape, in shape of what you"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2020.73,"endTime":2024.1499999999999,"body":"are in a shape, your body is in a shape."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2024.54,"endTime":2028.6699999999998,"body":"But to make yourself feel like movement is a part of your day."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2028.6799999999998,"endTime":2035.34,"body":"So lying in bed to begin with, stretching a little bit, taking a few bigger breaths and"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2035.34,"endTime":2037.8,"body":"longer exhales than inhales."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2037.98,"endTime":2041.58,"body":"I also happen to teach qigong and pranayama breathing."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2042.1799999999998,"endTime":2046.77,"body":"All of that can get you in the mindset of, Well, what am I going to do today with my"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2046.77,"endTime":2052.89,"body":"Apple Watch, with my buddy, or with something I have never tried before?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2052.89,"endTime":2057.51,"body":"And I think it's interesting what you say about finding someone else, finding a partner,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2057.51,"endTime":2062.1,"body":"finding a group of people that doesn't necessarily have to be the person you live with,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2062.1,"endTime":2065.4,"body":"that it's someone outside of your very inner circle."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2065.4,"endTime":2070.02,"body":"And there is things, something I think there's something invigorating about that you can"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2070.02,"endTime":2074.9700000000003,"body":"feed off the enthusiasm of other people and of course you can support each other as well."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2074.9700000000003,"endTime":2081.3,"body":"And I think again, for people who are not die hard, you know, go out there and sweat the"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2081.3,"endTime":2083.88,"body":"fact that you might be able to have a conversation."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2083.88,"endTime":2089.07,"body":"They always actually say that whether you are a walker or a runner, it's very good to"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2089.07,"endTime":2094.68,"body":"keep yourself at a level where you can carry on a conversation because, you know, again,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2094.68,"endTime":2096.84,"body":"you're not going to do yourself any harm."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2096.84,"endTime":2102.15,"body":"I don't want people to go out after this podcast and decide that they have to run a"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2102.15,"endTime":2107.04,"body":"marathon. That's really what I am not talking about."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2107.04,"endTime":2112.32,"body":"I'm talking about little, little, little steps and something that you will do on a"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2112.32,"endTime":2118.44,"body":"regular basis or some several things, because variety is the spice of movement."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2118.44,"endTime":2124.17,"body":"It is. And I would say to people, please don't listen to this podcast and rush out and run"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2124.17,"endTime":2125.4,"body":"your first marathon."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2125.4,"endTime":2129.27,"body":"I would say actually go and speak to your doctor first because we're all different and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2129.27,"endTime":2134.37,"body":"long distance running has unique challenges and clearly can be dangerous for some people"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2134.37,"endTime":2136.17,"body":"depending on your physical condition."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2136.5,"endTime":2138.21,"body":"Let me ask you this, Judith."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2138.21,"endTime":2140.69,"body":"This is a podcast about human longevity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2140.7,"endTime":2144.35,"body":"We look forwards generally rather than looking backwards."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2144.36,"endTime":2150.75,"body":"And I'm curious to know what your longevity aspirations are as far as your own life is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2150.75,"endTime":2151.36,"body":"concerned."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2151.38,"endTime":2153.29,"body":"So my father E."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2153.29,"endTime":2161.19,"body":"Milton Sachs, who died at the age of 93, worked at the - he had sold his medical practice,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2161.79,"endTime":2167.1,"body":"I'd say, probably ten years before his death, and then went to work at the Ladies Garment"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2167.1,"endTime":2168.2999999999997,"body":"Workers Union."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2168.2999999999997,"endTime":2173.58,"body":"And he only did he only did examinations where he could sit down."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2173.58,"endTime":2178.86,"body":"So he did gynecological and rectal exams because he said, I want the patient is already"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2178.86,"endTime":2181.74,"body":"on the table. I don't have to stand on my feet."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2181.7999999999997,"endTime":2189.2999999999997,"body":"And when they closed down the facility, I think he was probably 92 when this happened."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2189.5099999999998,"endTime":2191.07,"body":"And I said, you know what?"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2191.07,"endTime":2196.2,"body":"You should call the unemployment agency and you should apply for unemployment insurance"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2196.2,"endTime":2197.66,"body":"because you got laid off."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2197.67,"endTime":2198.99,"body":"And he said, really?"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2198.99,"endTime":2205.0499999999997,"body":"Okay. So he called up and the young man on the phone said, And can you tell me your age?"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2205.0499999999997,"endTime":2207.66,"body":"Doctor ... Oh, your date of birth, Dr."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2207.66,"endTime":2211.35,"body":"Sachs? And he said, 1910."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2211.83,"endTime":2215.13,"body":"And the guy said, Yeah, sure, buddy, And hung up on him."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2215.13,"endTime":2215.85,"body":"Oh, no."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2216.15,"endTime":2223.2,"body":"So I do absolutely hope to be teaching people to move and dance when I'm in my nineties,"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2223.2,"endTime":2228.84,"body":"but I may do it from a chair, you know, the great Russian ballet masters, after they had"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2228.84,"endTime":2234.48,"body":"stopped dancing with the Bolshoi or any of the companies, they were the people in the"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2234.48,"endTime":2237.09,"body":"room who taught the younger dancers."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2237.09,"endTime":2244.71,"body":"And I have a great mentor in Amsterdam and she's in her late eighties now and the kids"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2244.71,"endTime":2246.09,"body":"can't keep up with her."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2246.18,"endTime":2252.06,"body":"Well, Judith, you're clearly the kind of person who embraces life and enjoys every moment."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2252.06,"endTime":2255.84,"body":"You've got such a wide variety of activities going on."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2255.84,"endTime":2257.58,"body":"And I think that is a big part of it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2257.58,"endTime":2260.73,"body":"It is not necessarily having to always look to the future."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2260.73,"endTime":2263.46,"body":"It is embracing the moment."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2263.46,"endTime":2267.5099999999998,"body":"It is. And I like this moment and the next moment and the next moment."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2267.5099999999998,"endTime":2271.92,"body":"Well, that's just the point, isn't it, that if we like what we're doing, it invigorates"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2271.92,"endTime":2275.67,"body":"us. It gives us some enthusiasm and I think it gives us meaning."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2275.67,"endTime":2281.13,"body":"I've met so many people, some some very, very old people, over 100 centenarians that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2281.13,"endTime":2288.15,"body":"still have that get up and go that drive to be physical, but also sociable as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2288.15,"endTime":2289.77,"body":"And I think it's the combination of the two."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2289.7999999999997,"endTime":2293.94,"body":"We haven't really specifically talked about social connections, but then I suppose we"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2293.94,"endTime":2297.81,"body":"have, haven't we? Because a lot of what you do involves being social."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2297.81,"endTime":2300.96,"body":"Yes. And I think again, that's sort of what gives us balance."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2300.96,"endTime":2305.34,"body":"You know, we talked about the center of mass of the body, but there's also a kind of"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2305.34,"endTime":2311.58,"body":"center of mass of your life where you are on one side and those you love and those you"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2311.58,"endTime":2313.71,"body":"associate with are on the other side."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2313.71,"endTime":2319.7999999999997,"body":"And the more balance and equilibrium you have about that, hopefully you will be wanting"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2319.7999999999997,"endTime":2325.38,"body":"to move together as well as talk together and eat together and take trips together and go"},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2325.38,"endTime":2327.39,"body":"listen to birds in the morning together."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2327.5099999999998,"endTime":2329.82,"body":"Judith I think that's a great final thought."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2329.82,"endTime":2331.64,"body":"This has been really interesting."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2331.65,"endTime":2334.19,"body":"I wish you all the best with everything you're doing."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2334.2,"endTime":2335.43,"body":"Thank you very much indeed."},{"speaker":"Judith Sachs","startTime":2335.43,"endTime":2336.33,"body":"Thank you, Peter."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2336.72,"endTime":2340.5299999999997,"body":"My pleasure. And if you'd like to find out more about Judith's programs, I'll put the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2340.5299999999997,"endTime":2342.9,"body":"details into the show notes for this episode."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2343.02,"endTime":2348.0299999999997,"body":"You'll find them at our website, LLAMApodcast.com There's also a transcript of this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2348.0299999999997,"endTime":2352.68,"body":"conversation. You'll also find more information in the notes section of the podcast"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2352.68,"endTime":2357.54,"body":"platform of your choice, whether it be Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, which is our"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2357.54,"endTime":2362.64,"body":"latest outlet for the podcast, or one of the many other places that you will find our"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2362.64,"endTime":2366.11,"body":"episodes. The LLAMA podcast is a Healthspan Media Production."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2366.11,"endTime":2367.29,"body":"We'll be back very soon."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2367.29,"endTime":2369.48,"body":"In the meantime, thank you so much for listening."}]}