{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2.01,"endTime":7.11,"body":"If you stress this jellyfish, then you can actually get it to go from its adult stage back"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":7.11,"endTime":8.76,"body":"to something called the polyp stage."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":8.88,"endTime":12.69,"body":"It's practically an example of, you know, the holy grail of aging research."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":12.78,"endTime":15.54,"body":"That's an animal that's actually biologically immortal."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":22.47,"endTime":28.56,"body":"Nicklas Brendborg is a biotechnology researcher and the author of Jellyfish Age Backwoods:"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":28.59,"endTime":30.87,"body":"Nature's Secrets to Longevity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":30.9,"endTime":36.6,"body":"It is a fascinating read and addresses with a critical eye some of the fundamental"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":36.6,"endTime":44.04,"body":"questions related to the current state of aging science and man's quest to live longer"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":44.04,"endTime":45.69,"body":"and better. Hello again."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":45.69,"endTime":48.51,"body":"Welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":48.54,"endTime":54.0,"body":"I'm Peter Bowes. This is where we explore the science and stories behind human longevity."},{"speaker":"SPONSOR","startTime":54.03,"endTime":58.86,"body":"This episode is brought to you in association with Clinique La Prairie, the award winning"},{"speaker":"SPONSOR","startTime":58.86,"endTime":63.9,"body":"spa clinic and pioneering health and wellness destination nestled on the shores of Lake"},{"speaker":"SPONSOR","startTime":63.9,"endTime":65.91,"body":"Geneva in Montreaux, Switzerland."},{"speaker":"SPONSOR","startTime":66.06,"endTime":71.85,"body":"Combining preventative medicine with bespoke lifestyle and nutrition plans, Clinique La"},{"speaker":"SPONSOR","startTime":71.85,"endTime":76.95,"body":"Prairie offers a holistic approach to living fuller, healthier and longer lives."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":78.84,"endTime":83.43,"body":"Now the search for the Fountain of Youth has intrigued and challenged scientists for"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":83.43,"endTime":87.33,"body":"centuries. Longevity these days has become a buzzword."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":87.33,"endTime":93.96,"body":"But are we any closer to fully understanding what it takes to extend healthy lifespan or"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":93.96,"endTime":99.04,"body":"healthspan? Nicklas Brendborg welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":99.06,"endTime":100.5,"body":"Thank you very much for having me."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":100.8,"endTime":102.99,"body":"You're joining us from beautiful Copenhagen."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":102.99,"endTime":104.19,"body":"Yes, indeed."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":104.19,"endTime":106.2,"body":"Which is where you've been studying."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":106.2,"endTime":111.18,"body":"And we'll get to the details of your book in a moment, which you wrote while you were"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":111.18,"endTime":112.86,"body":"conducting your studies there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":112.86,"endTime":118.29,"body":"But I think it might be useful just to start off by talking about this phrase, the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":118.29,"endTime":119.53,"body":"fountain of youth."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":119.55,"endTime":122.7,"body":"It means different things to different people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":122.91,"endTime":126.06,"body":"When you hear that expression, what do you think of?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":126.09,"endTime":131.73,"body":"Is it a quest to live forever or is it just a quest to live for as well as we can for as"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":131.73,"endTime":132.69,"body":"long as we can?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":132.78,"endTime":139.83,"body":"Well, of course, there's there's always the, you know, the dreamer in you that wants to"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":139.86,"endTime":142.05,"body":"see just how far we can take this stuff."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":142.05,"endTime":147.39,"body":"But I would say, at least from engaging a little with the science and stuff, we're"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":147.39,"endTime":152.64,"body":"probably still at the point where we should be thankful for progress in general."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":152.64,"endTime":155.73,"body":"And then let's see what we can we can get from it."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":156.18,"endTime":162.84,"body":"Obviously, I hope I have a long career where I can contribute in this field, so who knows"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":162.84,"endTime":165.42,"body":"if we dream, what can happen."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":165.42,"endTime":169.8,"body":"But right now there's still some, I would say, fundamental stuff that we need to get"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":169.8,"endTime":170.37,"body":"settled."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":170.73,"endTime":172.48,"body":"And aging itself."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":172.48,"endTime":175.53,"body":"There are so many different definitions of what aging is."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":175.53,"endTime":179.94,"body":"And of course, we hear an anti-aging anti-aging all the time."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":179.94,"endTime":185.46,"body":"And I think we're bombarded with commercials these days from various different places to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":185.46,"endTime":190.41,"body":"encourage us to do things that will turn the clock back for ourselves."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":190.41,"endTime":194.64,"body":"But for a lot of people, aging is just a chronological process."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":194.64,"endTime":199.68,"body":"It is something that moves forward with the days and the months and the years."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":199.68,"endTime":203.34,"body":"So I'm curious to know where you stand on aging."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":203.34,"endTime":204.88,"body":"What does that word mean to you?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":204.9,"endTime":209.85,"body":"Well, to me it means the physical decline that tends to happen in organisms, biological"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":209.85,"endTime":211.14,"body":"organisms over time."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":211.26,"endTime":216.69,"body":"That doesn't necessarily have to happen, but that we see in organisms from mice to"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":216.69,"endTime":217.86,"body":"whales, basically."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":218.61,"endTime":224.73,"body":"So there's physical deterioration where your body stops functioning like it did at its"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":224.73,"endTime":231.3,"body":"peak and which eventually increases your risk of diseases and also just increases your"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":231.3,"endTime":236.25,"body":"risk of not really having a lot of wellbeing."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":236.52,"endTime":238.77,"body":"So let's go back to the beginning for you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":238.77,"endTime":242.74,"body":"I mentioned that you wrote this book while you were studying."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":242.74,"endTime":245.43,"body":"What in the first place got you interested in aging?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":245.46,"endTime":252.99,"body":"Well, I really like of course, when you study biomedical stuff, you you have to find some"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":253.74,"endTime":257.61,"body":"niche. You have to find something that you're going to study is some thing you're going"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":257.61,"endTime":263.58,"body":"to specialize in. And what I like about aging research in general, is just this fact"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":263.58,"endTime":268.07,"body":"that, yes, we can try to cure cancer practically."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":268.09,"endTime":272.67,"body":"We could cure any type of every type of cancer or dementia or heart disease."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":272.67,"endTime":277.08,"body":"But at the end of the day, even if we could, these diseases, first of all, we'll still"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":277.08,"endTime":278.28,"body":"have an old body."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":278.67,"endTime":281.97,"body":"So if we cure one disease, the risk of getting the other one."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":282.72,"endTime":287.61,"body":"But then still, even if we could somehow magically make every disease disappear, we"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":287.61,"endTime":293.37,"body":"wouldn't. You would still not be as well at this point in your life as you've been"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":293.49,"endTime":299.94,"body":"previously. So I like that the number one risk factor for all these diseases by far is"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":299.94,"endTime":306.78,"body":"aging. So it just makes this like deeper form of sense that you go to the root of the"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":306.78,"endTime":312.6,"body":"problem to begin with, because you know someone my age who's 27, I don't suddenly get"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":312.6,"endTime":316.44,"body":"dementia, I don't get a heart attack."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":316.44,"endTime":319.41,"body":"I have a very low risk of most types of cancers."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":319.41,"endTime":324.27,"body":"So clearly, at some point the body is naturally able to protect itself against this"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":324.27,"endTime":330.81,"body":"stuff. So yeah, it was basically this observation that I think we should we should go all"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":330.81,"endTime":334.05,"body":"the way to the root of this problem and attack it there."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":334.05,"endTime":341.61,"body":"And that would also allow me to to have a career where I could maybe contribute to to do"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":341.61,"endTime":342.39,"body":"the most good."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":342.6,"endTime":344.49,"body":"And tell me about your studies."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":344.49,"endTime":346.07,"body":"What are you specializing in?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":346.08,"endTime":350.94,"body":"Yeah, so I did what's called the program that's called Molecular biomedicine at the"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":350.94,"endTime":358.59,"body":"University of Copenhagen and a program called Biotechnology, which is mostly different in"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":358.59,"endTime":362.43,"body":"name. There's a lot of the same courses and so stuff is involved."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":362.97,"endTime":370.17,"body":"And then once this I was supposed to start this, my PhD actually back in time a year ago,"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":370.17,"endTime":374.22,"body":"but then when my book came out and it just went absolutely crazy, you know, with"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":374.22,"endTime":377.72,"body":"translations into 26 different languages and all this stuff."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":377.72,"endTime":382.73,"body":"Then I talked to my advisor and she was like, okay, take it, take a year, see what you"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":382.73,"endTime":387.17,"body":"can get from this, and then you're free to come back after that and start your studies"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":387.17,"endTime":390.23,"body":"there. So that's what I what I've just done."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":390.38,"endTime":392.51,"body":"And what was the impetus?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":392.51,"endTime":397.91,"body":"What was the reason for writing a book while you're studying at least the starting the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":397.91,"endTime":403.91,"body":"process while you're studying, it's something that someone in your line of work in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":403.91,"endTime":408.35,"body":"longevity research might do 20 or 30 years into their career."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":408.35,"endTime":409.91,"body":"You've done it right at the beginning."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":409.91,"endTime":416.21,"body":"Yes. I mean, first what I wanted to do was to just take a course in aging science at the"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":416.21,"endTime":418.94,"body":"University of Copenhagen. But, you know, we don't have that."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":419.45,"endTime":422.09,"body":"Not actually an opportunity or an option."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":422.09,"endTime":426.08,"body":"So I started just reading a little by myself, you know, reading some reviews and stuff."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":426.08,"endTime":428.0,"body":"But quickly, that seems kind of futile."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":428.0,"endTime":430.24,"body":"You just sit there and you read and then watch."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":430.25,"endTime":434.81,"body":"So I started, you know, taking some notes and yeah, one thing led to the other and I was"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":434.81,"endTime":439.64,"body":"like, I think there's a lot of good information here that normal people don't really"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":439.79,"endTime":442.25,"body":"know, and it's a very, very important problem."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":442.25,"endTime":448.7,"body":"So then I decided, okay, all of this, I can turn it into a book and I really, really like"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":448.7,"endTime":451.4,"body":"writing and really enjoy it, like as a hobby as well."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":452.24,"endTime":458.48,"body":"So if I could then combine the fact that I wanted to get up to speed on everything"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":458.48,"endTime":463.97,"body":"longevity science wise, and then I also enjoyed writing, then I thought writing a book"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":463.97,"endTime":467.6,"body":"would be, yeah, a fun thing to do."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":467.9,"endTime":470.84,"body":"And then while I was writing, we also hit the pandemic."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":470.84,"endTime":475.64,"body":"So even though I did courses, you know, you sit at home a lot of the time and doesn't"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":475.64,"endTime":479.32,"body":"really take up all of your day, to be honest."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":479.33,"endTime":482.72,"body":"So then yeah, I had even more time to finish this project."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":482.96,"endTime":487.22,"body":"And it is a book and I mentioned this in the introduction, it is a book that's written"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":487.22,"endTime":488.78,"body":"with a critical eye."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":488.81,"endTime":493.07,"body":"You cover a lot of different bases in terms of longevity, science."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":493.07,"endTime":494.39,"body":"There's some history in there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":494.42,"endTime":496.55,"body":"There's this current science as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":496.55,"endTime":503.27,"body":"But you are quite skeptical in many respects in terms of which developments might"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":503.27,"endTime":508.97,"body":"actually have a meaningful practical impact on human beings if we were to apply the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":508.97,"endTime":513.95,"body":"science to ourselves, and especially the the comparison with research that's done on on"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":513.95,"endTime":518.51,"body":"rodents and mice and rats in the laboratory, which I know a lot of people are skeptical"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":518.51,"endTime":521.33,"body":"about, saying, well, mice are not human beings."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":521.69,"endTime":527.96,"body":"Did you deliberately want to set out to really pull apart the research and offer a very"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":527.96,"endTime":530.94,"body":"sort of practical, realistic approach to longevity?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":530.96,"endTime":535.97,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I started out completely with a blank slate, right?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":535.97,"endTime":542.87,"body":"And of course, at that point I'd already been reading a lot about this stuff, so I had a"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":542.87,"endTime":545.93,"body":"lot of expectations and stuff."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":545.93,"endTime":552.8,"body":"But then I basically just tried to read as much as possible and try to look at as much"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":552.8,"endTime":557.09,"body":"data as possible and then make up my own mind about what I thought about this stuff."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":557.09,"endTime":562.1,"body":"And it turns out that just like in every field of science, some of the stuff is maybe not"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":562.1,"endTime":567.98,"body":"that robust when you dive into it and some of the stuff maybe turns out to be better than"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":567.98,"endTime":570.92,"body":"you thought initially when you then dive into it."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":571.07,"endTime":577.19,"body":"But I don't really I don't really have like I don't really have like a feeling that I"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":577.19,"endTime":579.53,"body":"should, you know, I just want to learn the truth."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":579.53,"endTime":585.29,"body":"So I don't have I don't feel like if something is not the truth about aging, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":585.29,"endTime":588.05,"body":"really help me get any closer to my goal."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":588.05,"endTime":591.17,"body":"So I just wanted to actually see that."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":591.17,"endTime":598.04,"body":"And of course, I think it's a good thing when you want to go into science."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":598.04,"endTime":602.81,"body":"I think it's a good thing to look at stuff skeptically, especially also once you've tried"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":602.81,"endTime":605.15,"body":"doing a few experiments yourself and stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":605.15,"endTime":612.74,"body":"I mean, it's really, really, really hard to learn things in general in biology because"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":612.74,"endTime":613.91,"body":"it's so complicated."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":613.91,"endTime":617.48,"body":"So of course not everything that's being done is perfect."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":617.48,"endTime":624.65,"body":"And then the problem is also that, you know, the body is so complex that it's way easier"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":624.65,"endTime":628.76,"body":"to accidentally harm yourself than it is to find something that will actually benefit"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":628.76,"endTime":634.4,"body":"you. So if you're not critical, you will end up while trying to actually live longer."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":634.4,"endTime":636.95,"body":"You might end up shortening your own lifespan."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":636.95,"endTime":644.3,"body":"And that seems it seems like not the best use of time if you really, really start nerding"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":644.3,"endTime":649.31,"body":"out about this stuff and then it actually only ends up producing a shorter lifespan for"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":649.31,"endTime":649.58,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":649.58,"endTime":651.17,"body":"I think that's a really interesting point."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":651.17,"endTime":656.57,"body":"What is it that doctors say do no harm first when you're trying to treat a condition?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":656.57,"endTime":661.94,"body":"And I know from my experience looking at all the many of the different interventions, one"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":661.94,"endTime":667.16,"body":"thing that I've over a period of time come to believe is that and it sounds quite boring,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":667.16,"endTime":672.53,"body":"but that moderation in everything is actually probably one of the best longevity"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":672.53,"endTime":676.04,"body":"interventions that we can apply to ourselves because there are so many."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":676.3,"endTime":681.76,"body":"Different interventions, whether it's supplementation or diet or extreme exercise."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":681.91,"endTime":688.84,"body":"Any of these elements in extreme or excess can and probably are most likely to cause harm"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":689.23,"endTime":691.48,"body":"than good, at least in the short term."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":691.51,"endTime":697.93,"body":"I mean, at least with the stuff we have now, I completely agree that that's a lot of a lot"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":697.93,"endTime":703.48,"body":"of stuff where if your goal is actually to live as long as possible, you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":703.51,"endTime":709.48,"body":"double down on some random drug right now that doesn't really have safety safety data"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":709.48,"endTime":714.67,"body":"behind it and then just cross your fingers and hope that, you know, the papers are what"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":714.67,"endTime":719.68,"body":"they say they are. So I would definitely also, if you actually have this practical"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":719.68,"endTime":725.53,"body":"mindset of wanting to to to live as long as possible, it makes perfect sense to not just"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":725.53,"endTime":731.77,"body":"jump on to every single new discovery before it has had its time to get tested in"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":731.77,"endTime":735.55,"body":"multiple places and really thoroughly vetted."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":735.55,"endTime":736.81,"body":"So you don't end up."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":737.53,"endTime":740.35,"body":"Yeah, kind of on the wrong side of of this thing."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":740.35,"endTime":744.31,"body":"So let's look at the title of the book Jellyfish Age Backwards."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":744.31,"endTime":748.09,"body":"You've got an intriguing first section of the book where you talk about the animal"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":748.09,"endTime":751.69,"body":"kingdom and what we can learn from different species."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":751.87,"endTime":755.02,"body":"Let's focus in on the jellyfish story first."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":755.02,"endTime":758.02,"body":"Do some jellyfish literally age backwards?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":758.02,"endTime":763.42,"body":"Yeah. So the jellyfish I'm referring to in this in this title is a special species that's"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":763.42,"endTime":768.73,"body":"called Turritopsis dohrnii, which is this tiny jellyfish the size of a fingernail."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":769.0,"endTime":774.19,"body":"And if you just look at this jellyfish, it's, you know, it's not the most exciting animal"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":774.19,"endTime":777.34,"body":"ever. It's just a little jellyfish that swims around eating plankton."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":777.67,"endTime":781.96,"body":"But then if you stress this jellyfish by, for instance, changing the temperature of the"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":781.96,"endTime":787.36,"body":"water, or you can do it by mechanical damage, then you can actually get it to go from its"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":787.36,"endTime":789.91,"body":"adult stage back to something called the polyp stage."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":789.91,"endTime":794.17,"body":"So it would be a little bit akin to taking a butterfly and turning it into a caterpillar"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":794.17,"endTime":795.25,"body":"again, for instance."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":795.55,"endTime":799.66,"body":"Then from there, the jellyfish can grow up in you and you can practically repeat this"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":799.66,"endTime":801.01,"body":"rejuvenation step."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":801.22,"endTime":806.41,"body":"And I don't remember exactly what's the maximum amount of time it's been done, but it's"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":806.41,"endTime":809.26,"body":"been done at least ten times where it works."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":809.26,"endTime":815.47,"body":"So if there isn't a limit to this, it's practically an example of, you know, the holy"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":815.47,"endTime":816.58,"body":"grail of aging research."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":816.59,"endTime":819.85,"body":"So that's an animal that's actually biologically immortal."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":819.94,"endTime":821.2,"body":"That's it's interesting."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":821.2,"endTime":826.75,"body":"And there are other animals you write about a lot, and those especially that are used in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":826.75,"endTime":831.28,"body":"laboratories for longevity research I mentioned already, rats and mice are probably the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":831.28,"endTime":836.68,"body":"most common. There's something called a mole rat as well that longevity researchers are"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":836.68,"endTime":837.76,"body":"very interested in."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":837.76,"endTime":839.34,"body":"What's the reason for that?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":839.35,"endTime":846.79,"body":"So the thing is, in the beginning of the book, I tried to look out and see like, well, is"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":846.79,"endTime":849.25,"body":"aging something that's set in stone?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":849.25,"endTime":853.9,"body":"Because, of course, then it would be foolish to even try to to do anything about it."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":853.9,"endTime":859.03,"body":"But you pretty quickly learned that, yes, for instance, you see many of the same changes"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":859.03,"endTime":861.88,"body":"in old mouse as you see in an old person."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":861.88,"endTime":864.55,"body":"It just happens that vastly different speeds."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":864.79,"endTime":867.94,"body":"Then you also learn that there are animals that can live way longer than us."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":867.94,"endTime":872.23,"body":"So where we are kind of the mouse and you know, at the point where they're still young"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":872.23,"endTime":876.19,"body":"and fit, we start to show all these classic signs of aging."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":876.4,"endTime":878.38,"body":"For instance, it could be the bowhead whale."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":878.71,"endTime":880.18,"body":"They can live more than 200 years."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":880.18,"endTime":885.07,"body":"It could be the Greenland shark, which could potentially live all the way up to 400"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":885.07,"endTime":891.43,"body":"years. So then that's all good and well means we should be able to learn some stuff from"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":891.43,"endTime":896.23,"body":"these animals, right? If we want to live a long life, the problem is then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":896.32,"endTime":900.55,"body":"quite practical one. If you really want to learn, for instance, from a bowhead whale how"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":900.55,"endTime":904.9,"body":"to live a long life, you're not really going to be able to put it in the lab, Right."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":904.9,"endTime":907.18,"body":"So that's that's not an option."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":907.9,"endTime":912.79,"body":"And it just turns out that there is this general rule where larger animals tend to live"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":912.79,"endTime":918.25,"body":"longer. So all the longer, or at least a lot of the longest lived animals are really,"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":918.25,"endTime":923.26,"body":"really big. And that, of course, makes it a little hard if you want to do your normal day"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":923.26,"endTime":924.85,"body":"to day laboratory research."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":925.3,"endTime":931.84,"body":"So instead, scientists then take took a look and said like, can we find a species that is"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":931.84,"endTime":935.59,"body":"small but that lives a lot longer than we would expect from its size."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":935.83,"endTime":940.87,"body":"And that turns out the naked mole rat is just a perfect example because it's about the"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":940.87,"endTime":943.12,"body":"size of a mouth of a mouse."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":943.12,"endTime":949.66,"body":"So 30 to 35 grams, but a mouse in a laboratory will age and die in 2 to 3 years."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":949.9,"endTime":954.55,"body":"And mole rat can live above 35 years."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":955.87,"endTime":961.15,"body":"Has these really cool adaptations like it seems to be very, very resistant to getting"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":961.15,"endTime":966.94,"body":"cancer. I think it's in the tens of thousands of mole rats that have been studied now and"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":966.94,"endTime":969.64,"body":"something like six tumors ever found."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":969.64,"endTime":975.34,"body":"Whereas if you look at laboratory mice, it's something like 70 to 80% of mice have some"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":975.34,"endTime":977.64,"body":"kind of tumor. At the time that the die."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":977.67,"endTime":980.31,"body":"So the die with the cancer from the cancer."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":980.82,"endTime":985.95,"body":"And then it's also convenient because, you know, these animals are actually related."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":985.95,"endTime":991.23,"body":"So we have a short lived animal or short lived animals in mice and rats that we already"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":991.23,"endTime":998.31,"body":"know a lot about. And then we have one of the and we have an animal that is related to"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":998.31,"endTime":1002.36,"body":"them, one of the relatives, and just that just lived way, way longer."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1002.36,"endTime":1006.95,"body":"Then you can do all these sort of comparative studies and try to find out, well, what are"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1006.95,"endTime":1010.91,"body":"these adaptations that the mole that has that makes it live so much longer?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1011.51,"endTime":1013.79,"body":"This is the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1013.79,"endTime":1019.7,"body":"Our guest is Nicklas Brendborg, the author of Jellyfish Age Backwards Nature's Secrets to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1019.7,"endTime":1026.27,"body":"Longevity. Now, you mentioned that smaller animals tend to live longer."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1026.27,"endTime":1031.01,"body":"It's not an absolute golden rule there, but it's certainly interesting."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1031.01,"endTime":1035.99,"body":"And it leads me to a section of your book where you write about people with Laron"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1035.99,"endTime":1039.83,"body":"syndrome, and this is a very small group of people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1039.83,"endTime":1041.6,"body":"There's a community in Ecuador."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1041.63,"endTime":1046.58,"body":"There are other communities across Europe, but globally a very, very small number of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1046.58,"endTime":1049.04,"body":"people. And well, I'll let you tell the story."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1049.04,"endTime":1052.49,"body":"It's interesting to me because I've been to Ecuador, I've met these people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1052.49,"endTime":1055.61,"body":"I've met the researchers who are looking into their lives."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1055.61,"endTime":1062.51,"body":"And the key thing is that people with Laron syndrome tend to be and this isn't fully"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1062.51,"endTime":1068.81,"body":"understood yet, but they tend to be much less likely, almost exclusively less likely to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1068.81,"endTime":1074.87,"body":"get the killer diseases of old age like cancer, like diabetes, like heart conditions."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1074.87,"endTime":1081.2,"body":"So the really interesting thing about this whole size longevity thing is that once you"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1081.35,"endTime":1085.97,"body":"then establish that large animals tend to live longer than than small animals, at least"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1085.97,"endTime":1090.98,"body":"as a rule of thumb, then it actually turns out that within each species, this rule is"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1090.98,"endTime":1095.48,"body":"flipped on its head. So small dogs live longer than big dogs."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1095.48,"endTime":1097.58,"body":"Ponies live longer than horses."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1097.58,"endTime":1101.84,"body":"The longest lived mouse ever is something called an Ames dwarf mouse, which is like half"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1101.84,"endTime":1103.34,"body":"the size of a normal mouse."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1104.03,"endTime":1108.17,"body":"Yeah. And then naturally, also people start to wonder, well, is it the same thing for"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1108.17,"endTime":1112.64,"body":"people? Should I be very, very sad that I'm tall or very happy that I'm small?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1112.88,"endTime":1119.03,"body":"And it does seem that we can have some of the same pattern as we see in other animals."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1119.27,"endTime":1124.19,"body":"And for instance, if you go to to take a look at some of the oldest lived people ever,"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1124.94,"endTime":1129.98,"body":"for instance, Jeanne Calment, the longest lived person ever at the time."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1130.16,"endTime":1133.25,"body":"At the moment, she was a very small lady."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1133.25,"endTime":1138.35,"body":"Actually. Every every single person in the top ten or something is a very small like five"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1138.35,"endTime":1146.15,"body":"something five zero, typically 5-1 - 5-11 at the time, like before they started shrinking"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1146.15,"endTime":1147.44,"body":"due to old age."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1147.8,"endTime":1152.24,"body":"And then as I say, there's this, this is my mouse, the Ames straw of mouse, which is"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1152.42,"endTime":1155.78,"body":"which has dysfunction in this growth hormone signaling."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1155.78,"endTime":1160.43,"body":"And we actually know also people that have dysfunctions in growth hormone signaling, the"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1160.43,"endTime":1166.4,"body":"people with Laron syndrome, where the growth hormone receptor is is nonfunctional."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1166.4,"endTime":1171.08,"body":"So that means these people typically have normal or even high levels of growth hormone in"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1171.08,"endTime":1175.22,"body":"the blood. But it just can't it just can't really interact with the cells."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1175.22,"endTime":1178.01,"body":"So you don't really get a response to this growth growth hormone."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1178.01,"endTime":1182.72,"body":"And as a result, you get these people that are that are very, very short, but they don't"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1182.72,"endTime":1188.95,"body":"display like the typical characteristics that you would see in people with what we would"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1188.96,"endTime":1194.39,"body":"call like normal dwarfism, where they they have this these special proportions with a"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1194.39,"endTime":1197.51,"body":"larger head and limbs that are quite short."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1198.38,"endTime":1202.76,"body":"So these people are more like a miniature version of you and I."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1203.84,"endTime":1210.23,"body":"But then, as you say, the really interesting thing is that somehow this lack of growth"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1210.23,"endTime":1217.1,"body":"signaling seems to protect them against all these different things cancer, heart disease,"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1217.1,"endTime":1221.14,"body":"diabetes, even acne, it seems that they're protected against."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1221.48,"endTime":1227.48,"body":"And that's also despite, you know, as I read in your account, some of them being quite"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1227.48,"endTime":1230.51,"body":"overweight, that they still seem protected."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1230.51,"endTime":1233.84,"body":"They don't get high blood pressure anyways and stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1234.17,"endTime":1241.61,"body":"So it does really it just really suggest that there is something central about growth"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1241.61,"endTime":1248.69,"body":"signaling that is just crucial in determining both your aging and then also, of course,"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1248.69,"endTime":1252.35,"body":"as a byproduct of that, your risk of age related diseases."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1252.56,"endTime":1258.68,"body":"Now the hormone that you're talking about is IGF-1 insulin like growth factor one, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1258.68,"endTime":1261.95,"body":"people with Laron syndrome have plenty of IGF-1."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1261.95,"endTime":1267.29,"body":"It is the receptor that is the area of the problem, that the receptor is simply not"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1267.29,"endTime":1270.29,"body":"working to allow those individuals to use the IGF-1."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1270.29,"endTime":1275.32,"body":"And just to explain, IGF-1 is crucially important, especially when you're growing up as."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1275.72,"endTime":1279.26,"body":"As a child to achieve a normal height."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1279.26,"endTime":1286.37,"body":"And I think you can elaborate on this as you're an adult, IGF-1 probably becomes less"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1286.37,"endTime":1289.73,"body":"important because you're not continuing to grow."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1289.73,"endTime":1293.6,"body":"And that's the interesting area that there are interventions."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1293.6,"endTime":1299.32,"body":"And fasting is one that allows us to reduce our levels of IGF-1."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1299.33,"endTime":1306.95,"body":"And there seems to be some correlation between IGF-1 levels and the likelihood of getting"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1306.95,"endTime":1310.13,"body":"cancer or these killer diseases of old age."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1310.13,"endTime":1315.61,"body":"And and that's why for a wider community, this area of science is so interesting."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1315.62,"endTime":1320.75,"body":"Yeah. So normally growth hormone goes to the liver and promotes the production of IGF-1."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1320.75,"endTime":1325.91,"body":"So when the receptor doesn't work, then you just don't really get that response."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1325.91,"endTime":1329.09,"body":"And as you say, that's that's the reason for the symptoms."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1329.09,"endTime":1335.15,"body":"That's also why I mean, we can treat it by giving people IGF-1 and they will then don't"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1335.15,"endTime":1338.0,"body":"get this phenotype of being very, very small."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1338.15,"endTime":1344.18,"body":"But, you know, from at least from a cancer perspective, this makes perfect sense because"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1344.18,"endTime":1347.42,"body":"cancer is fundamental fundamentally about growth."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1347.84,"endTime":1354.71,"body":"So that if you have higher growth signaling, we would also expect all things equal that"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1354.71,"endTime":1357.77,"body":"it could put you at a higher risk of cancer."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1358.73,"endTime":1364.46,"body":"Now, from a more fundamental standpoint, why it has an effect on aging, that is something"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1364.46,"endTime":1369.14,"body":"that I think is absolutely fascinating because of course, yeah, we need growth signaling"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1369.17,"endTime":1373.4,"body":"to grow up to attain our final height and size."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1373.4,"endTime":1377.93,"body":"But from that point, you know, it is not as needed."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1377.93,"endTime":1381.32,"body":"You still you still use it to maintain your muscle mass."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1381.32,"endTime":1386.21,"body":"And you know, you can't just completely zap some of these hormones and then feel feel"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1386.21,"endTime":1392.96,"body":"well, but it could this could suggest at least that it would be beneficial to to at least"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1392.96,"endTime":1395.99,"body":"modulate these pathways in old age."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1396.32,"endTime":1401.78,"body":"The problem is, though, that even for for a lot of years, taking growth hormone actually"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1401.78,"endTime":1406.22,"body":"has been seen as some kind of anti-aging intervention that you could do where you could,"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1407.66,"endTime":1413.09,"body":"because apparently I haven't tried it, but it should feel quite nice to take growth"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1413.09,"endTime":1419.48,"body":"hormone. You feel you feel a lot of vitality and you gain muscle mass."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1419.48,"endTime":1427.16,"body":"And in general, you could feel like this stuff is helping you staying and staying young."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1427.37,"endTime":1430.88,"body":"But from the stuff that we can learn from laboratory animals and also the stuff that we"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1430.88,"endTime":1435.71,"body":"can see with patients, this is probably not the best thing you could do for yourself in"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1435.71,"endTime":1440.51,"body":"old age. And so there is this connection."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1440.51,"endTime":1448.01,"body":"But at this point, I think at least it's a little hard to say exactly why and how this"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1448.01,"endTime":1448.94,"body":"stuff works."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1449.12,"endTime":1455.75,"body":"And the other kicker in this story is that people with Laron syndrome tend not to live"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1455.75,"endTime":1457.4,"body":"excessively long lives."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1457.4,"endTime":1462.26,"body":"They tend to die at about the same age as as their peers, as are the people in their"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1462.26,"endTime":1464.87,"body":"families and their local community."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1464.87,"endTime":1467.87,"body":"And the reasons for that are not fully understood."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1467.87,"endTime":1470.27,"body":"They they are small people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1470.27,"endTime":1475.04,"body":"They suffer more road accidents than most people in their community."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1475.04,"endTime":1479.24,"body":"That might be obvious because if they're crossing a road and it's dark, they can't be"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1479.24,"endTime":1480.83,"body":"seen. It could be as simple as that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1480.83,"endTime":1487.4,"body":"They also tend to have a higher level of alcoholism than others in their community and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1487.4,"endTime":1488.48,"body":"and depression as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1488.48,"endTime":1493.25,"body":"And that depression may well be caused because they are short and because they're small"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1493.25,"endTime":1495.47,"body":"and they don't want to be they want to be normal."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1495.47,"endTime":1498.5,"body":"They want to be the normal height of of everyone else."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1498.5,"endTime":1500.57,"body":"So I don't know what this tells us."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1500.72,"endTime":1505.49,"body":"Perhaps it tells us that there's clearly more than one factor that goes into longevity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1505.49,"endTime":1507.47,"body":"It is about the whole body."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1507.47,"endTime":1512.99,"body":"And clearly for Laron syndrome people, one of the issues is to get IGF one, especially"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1512.99,"endTime":1517.49,"body":"for their children, to encourage growth in the early part of their lives."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1517.49,"endTime":1522.8,"body":"And IGF one is expensive and it's not always possible to to get supplies in the places"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1522.8,"endTime":1523.97,"body":"that it's needed."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1523.97,"endTime":1526.49,"body":"So this is a complicated area, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1526.49,"endTime":1530.84,"body":"I'm absolutely certain that there is also a mental health aspect of this."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1530.84,"endTime":1536.84,"body":"We we do know that, you know, your physical health and your mental health is, of course,"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1537.47,"endTime":1540.92,"body":"in so intertwined, it's not something that you can separate."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1540.92,"endTime":1546.56,"body":"So even if you have all these you could call them physical advantages for for longevity."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1546.56,"endTime":1550.55,"body":"If you don't feel well, that might negate some of it."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1550.55,"endTime":1557.3,"body":"And of course, it's of course, completely understandable that these people, you know,"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1557.45,"endTime":1563.6,"body":"maybe even if people don't like maybe even if people are not trying to do so, you will"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1563.6,"endTime":1568.43,"body":"just get looked at maybe a little differently from from sticking out so much."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1568.43,"endTime":1571.24,"body":"But by being like a curiously small."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1571.25,"endTime":1575.59,"body":"So then you could completely understand why some of these people would then."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1577.4,"endTime":1579.23,"body":"Not feel. Not feel well."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1579.23,"endTime":1581.63,"body":"And. And for that reason, maybe."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1582.56,"endTime":1588.41,"body":"Maybe from the loneliness or the stress coming from this stuff then."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1588.41,"endTime":1592.52,"body":"And the alcoholism not live as long as they could have."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1592.69,"endTime":1597.86,"body":"Because, of course, if you do a similar experiment with mice, there's not this whole"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1597.86,"endTime":1603.8,"body":"social factor, or at least the social factor is a lot a lot less complicated than than it"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1603.8,"endTime":1610.16,"body":"is in humans. So we do have all this extra stuff that just makes that just makes the"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1610.16,"endTime":1615.47,"body":"biology of aging even more complicated when you're talking about humans compared to when"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1615.86,"endTime":1618.41,"body":"you're just talking about an animal like a mouse."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1618.44,"endTime":1621.02,"body":"Nevertheless, the science is is fascinating."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1621.02,"endTime":1622.82,"body":"And it brings me on to the section."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1622.82,"endTime":1626.42,"body":"In your book, you talk about fasting and the work of Dr."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1626.42,"endTime":1632.78,"body":"Valter Longo here in Los Angeles at USC, who of course, is very closely related to the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1632.78,"endTime":1637.58,"body":"research that's going on with the Laron syndrome communities in Ecuador."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1637.58,"endTime":1642.56,"body":"And there's a very definite link between the kind of research that he's doing here and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1642.56,"endTime":1644.81,"body":"what we've seen in those communities."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1644.81,"endTime":1649.25,"body":"And the research here is focused around the fasting mimicking diet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1649.25,"endTime":1655.16,"body":"And one of I've already mentioned one of the the side effects of fasting is that your IGF"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1655.16,"endTime":1656.57,"body":"one levels come down."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1656.57,"endTime":1658.13,"body":"Lots of other effects as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1658.16,"endTime":1662.06,"body":"I'm curious to know what you think about fasting."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1662.09,"endTime":1664.52,"body":"Again, it's one of those buzzwords these days, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1664.52,"endTime":1668.27,"body":"Everyone seems to be fasting, whether it's an intermittent fast or a periodic fast or"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1668.39,"endTime":1673.22,"body":"time. Restricted eating is another one that a lot of people are doing."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1673.25,"endTime":1675.53,"body":"Do you think there's much in this in terms of the science?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1675.56,"endTime":1682.88,"body":"Yeah. So for one, like the whole calorie restriction field, if you could call it that,"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1682.88,"endTime":1688.01,"body":"like calorie restriction is the most reliable way to to prolong the life of laboratory"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1688.01,"endTime":1689.39,"body":"rodents at least."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1689.87,"endTime":1695.51,"body":"But that's just, you know, not entirely practical to transfer to humans, like don't eat"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1696.17,"endTime":1701.57,"body":"and then you might live a few years longer, like just by starving yourself your whole"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1701.57,"endTime":1707.78,"body":"life. That's just even if it's true, I doubt that we will ever find out in humans if it"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1707.78,"endTime":1714.65,"body":"is true. But even if it is not, a lot of people would make would make the the choice."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1714.65,"endTime":1720.02,"body":"So instead, the interesting thing about fasting in mice is that it's a way to replicate"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1720.02,"endTime":1725.33,"body":"some of this because it does seem that at least some of the benefits seen in calorie"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1725.33,"endTime":1730.46,"body":"restriction studies actually comes from the fasting, not just from the low amount of"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1730.46,"endTime":1733.91,"body":"calories. And of course, it's much more doable to fast."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1733.91,"endTime":1735.35,"body":"They can even feel good."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1735.35,"endTime":1738.32,"body":"So, I mean, it's something that I do myself occasionally."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1738.32,"endTime":1743.3,"body":"I'm not someone that fast every day, for instance, but I do like to do it twice a week."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1743.3,"endTime":1749.78,"body":"And the research that at least I've seen seems to suggest that if you skip a meal, it"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1749.78,"endTime":1751.31,"body":"should be the dinner."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1751.31,"endTime":1755.57,"body":"So you should get more of your calories early in the day as opposed to loading your"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1755.57,"endTime":1756.92,"body":"calories late in the day."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1757.28,"endTime":1761.57,"body":"So I confirmed that a little bit, a little kind of like a self experiment."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1761.57,"endTime":1766.49,"body":"I can just see, at least on my ordering, that if I eat within like 3 hours of going to"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1766.49,"endTime":1767.84,"body":"bed, I tend to sleep."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1768.44,"endTime":1769.46,"body":"Sleep worse."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1769.61,"endTime":1776.3,"body":"And just in general, it seems it seems logical this thing about then having like cutting"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1776.3,"endTime":1778.13,"body":"out dinner instead of cutting out breakfast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1778.31,"endTime":1782.9,"body":"Yeah, I do a very similar sort of regime, and that's probably one of the biggest lessons"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1782.9,"endTime":1788.51,"body":"that I've learned. I stop eating at five or six when it is practical to do so and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1788.51,"endTime":1791.12,"body":"generally have a much better night's sleep."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1791.27,"endTime":1795.96,"body":"You write about Roy Walford as well, which is something else I wanted to ask you about."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1795.98,"endTime":1801.41,"body":"I was lucky enough to meet Roy Walford a couple of decades ago and it was towards the end"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1801.41,"endTime":1804.38,"body":"of his career and he's a fascinating character, isn't he?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1804.38,"endTime":1809.72,"body":"Because he is one of the original researchers really, that kickstarted the whole interest"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1809.72,"endTime":1813.26,"body":"in longevity and especially caloric restriction."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1813.26,"endTime":1818.06,"body":"But I think the message that comes through from a lot of his work is that he went to an"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1818.06,"endTime":1825.29,"body":"extreme and an extreme that a tiny number of people could actually tolerate in their real"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1825.29,"endTime":1825.95,"body":"lives."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1825.98,"endTime":1831.62,"body":"Yeah. So, I mean, absolutely fascinating character in my opinion."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1831.62,"endTime":1839.39,"body":"I do sometimes, you know, when you look back at least a few decades, it does seem like"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1839.39,"endTime":1845.45,"body":"you had more of these, you know, I guess you could call them crazy scientist where, you"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1845.45,"endTime":1850.37,"body":"know, experimenting on yourself, having all these crazy ideas going on expeditions and so"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1850.37,"endTime":1855.02,"body":"on. And there's just something I don't know, there's something pure about that that I"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1855.02,"endTime":1856.13,"body":"just really, really like."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1856.61,"endTime":1858.29,"body":"And yeah, it's true."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1858.29,"endTime":1864.32,"body":"You know, he, he was very much into longevity and he didn't he didn't get to live that"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1864.32,"endTime":1865.55,"body":"long himself."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1865.55,"endTime":1872.12,"body":"But at least, you know, he was he was kickstarting this, all of this stuff for other"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1872.12,"endTime":1873.29,"body":"people to then follow up."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1873.29,"endTime":1878.36,"body":"And I'm actually thinking that, you know, the same thing with us today."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1878.69,"endTime":1881.57,"body":"There's a lot of people I know that are talking about."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1882.22,"endTime":1884.74,"body":"Soon we'll be able to control aging."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1884.77,"endTime":1886.57,"body":"I don't think I entirely by that."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1886.57,"endTime":1888.76,"body":"I mean, I would certainly be happy about that."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1889.15,"endTime":1891.82,"body":"But we don't know if that's going to be our own role as well."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1891.82,"endTime":1896.71,"body":"Like the people studying this stuff today, if we are actually going to be able to reap"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1896.71,"endTime":1901.75,"body":"the fruit of some of this stuff or if we are one of the last generations, just like"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1901.75,"endTime":1907.81,"body":"someone like Roy Walford, who won't actually, you know, see the full potential realized,"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1907.81,"endTime":1913.24,"body":"but at least we'll have contributed some of the, the foundation that, you know, other"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1913.24,"endTime":1914.77,"body":"people will then benefit from."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1914.8,"endTime":1919.84,"body":"You mentioned your own experiments with fasting and time restricted eating and how it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1919.84,"endTime":1921.56,"body":"affects you and how it affects your sleep."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1921.58,"endTime":1927.04,"body":"I'm curious more generally in terms of your research, has it affected the way that you"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1927.04,"endTime":1928.42,"body":"live your life?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1928.45,"endTime":1933.43,"body":"Well, I try to apply all of this stuff to myself, first of all, because, I mean, academic"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1933.43,"endTime":1939.13,"body":"science is a lot of fun as a career, but it's also just fun, you know, sometimes kind of"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1939.13,"endTime":1944.37,"body":"being a little egoistic and just focusing on yourself, studying what, you know."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1944.38,"endTime":1949.69,"body":"I think it's one of the weirdest things about the modern age that we know so little"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1949.69,"endTime":1953.29,"body":"actually about what's going on in our own bodies at any given time."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1953.29,"endTime":1959.56,"body":"So I think it's really interesting both to try to optimize things, but also just to see,"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1959.62,"endTime":1965.29,"body":"you know, what is my actual genetics like, what is my microbiome like, how is my sleep,"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1965.29,"endTime":1968.59,"body":"how is my heart rate throughout the day and so on and so on."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1968.59,"endTime":1972.61,"body":"So I really, really like these these things in general."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1972.61,"endTime":1978.4,"body":"And then of course, also one of the initial things once I started getting into this whole"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1978.4,"endTime":1983.29,"body":"field, it's also, of course, for for my own benefit for trying to see what can I do."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1983.29,"endTime":1991.54,"body":"I'm really interested in, you know, being as well as I can be, especially when you start"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1991.54,"endTime":1993.37,"body":"out with this stuff as a young person."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1993.37,"endTime":1997.36,"body":"I mean, I'm very happy about how I feel in my own body today."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":1997.36,"endTime":2002.04,"body":"So if I could keep feeling this way and not have this decline that you tend to see in"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2002.04,"endTime":2004.88,"body":"other people, that would just be absolutely amazing."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2004.89,"endTime":2014.19,"body":"So yeah, I tend to do a lot of experiments on myself, not as in taking random drugs, but"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2014.19,"endTime":2020.52,"body":"in trying to see how I can optimize the few parameters that I'm absolutely certain should"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2020.52,"endTime":2023.7,"body":"be optimized very tightly to to get a longer life."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2023.85,"endTime":2028.83,"body":"And I think as someone in their twenties, this makes you quite unusual because generally I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2028.83,"endTime":2034.56,"body":"find that people who are not longevity researchers really don't think about their their"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2034.56,"endTime":2038.98,"body":"health or their potential longevity to any great depth."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2039.0,"endTime":2043.17,"body":"You're young, you're focused on your life and your career, and you're going to live"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2043.17,"endTime":2046.68,"body":"forever. Maybe not literally, but it's not something to think about."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2046.68,"endTime":2052.14,"body":"It's not something to think about the diseases that you might see in your grandparents or"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2052.14,"endTime":2055.06,"body":"even your great grandparents if you're that young."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2055.08,"endTime":2061.08,"body":"My frustration sometimes is that if only people at a younger age would think about their"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2061.08,"endTime":2064.95,"body":"longevity and perhaps some of the interventions that could be applied, that it could"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2064.95,"endTime":2069.29,"body":"improve generally their health span and potentially their lifespan."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2069.3,"endTime":2074.97,"body":"Absolutely. I mean, there is the one I don't know if you're familiar with the ITP, the"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2074.97,"endTime":2080.04,"body":"Interventions Testing Program, I would say one of the the very optimistic or very"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2080.04,"endTime":2086.67,"body":"positive news we have gotten from there is that a lot of gero protective agents."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2086.67,"endTime":2091.08,"body":"So a lot of these molecules that are tested for the anti-ageing abilities seem to at"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2091.08,"endTime":2092.49,"body":"least have some effect."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2092.49,"endTime":2096.69,"body":"Even if you start them late, some of them might even have the same effect, whether you"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2096.69,"endTime":2101.4,"body":"start them kind of late in life at mid-life or whether you start them from a young age."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2101.4,"endTime":2103.98,"body":"So I would say there's great hope."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2103.98,"endTime":2110.61,"body":"But of course it is always better to not damage yourself and do not accumulate this"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2110.61,"endTime":2112.41,"body":"damage and then try to fix it."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2112.71,"endTime":2117.27,"body":"You know, it's a lot better to just not get the damage from the beginning and and start"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2117.27,"endTime":2121.47,"body":"when you're young, try to to keep all the stuff that you have."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2121.98,"endTime":2122.73,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2122.94,"endTime":2127.41,"body":"One of the things about longevity research is that especially if you're involving human"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2127.41,"endTime":2130.41,"body":"beings, it's actually very difficult to do."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2130.44,"endTime":2136.05,"body":"Certainly experiments involving a lot of people where they're dependent on results that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2136.05,"endTime":2139.32,"body":"might occur decades in the future."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2139.32,"endTime":2144.39,"body":"And clearly that's why laboratory animals are used, that's why fruit flies are used"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2144.39,"endTime":2146.91,"body":"because their lifespan is is quite short."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2146.91,"endTime":2150.89,"body":"And I think that's coming back to the experiments that you conduct on yourself as in any"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2151.17,"endTime":2156.6,"body":"one, just like I do looking at my sleep and comparing it with the diet or the exercise"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2156.6,"endTime":2162.9,"body":"I've had the day before, that makes that kind of experimentation, even though, more"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2162.9,"endTime":2166.95,"body":"broadly speaking, in the scientific world, it may not have any great value because you"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2166.95,"endTime":2168.03,"body":"just one person."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2168.03,"endTime":2174.66,"body":"I think for ourselves it is a value because we can really figure out what is good for us"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2174.75,"endTime":2183.3,"body":"as long as we base it on some semblance of research that is based on science and then try"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2183.3,"endTime":2184.57,"body":"to apply it to ourselves."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2184.59,"endTime":2185.64,"body":"I think there's a value there."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2185.64,"endTime":2186.66,"body":"I mean, definitely."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2186.66,"endTime":2192.12,"body":"And, you know, the problem also is sometimes in a study, if you read that this or this,"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2192.15,"endTime":2197.52,"body":"this, that agent improves some score by 20%, that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2197.52,"endTime":2199.92,"body":"has a 20% increase in what you're looking at."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2199.92,"endTime":2203.19,"body":"It means that there's, you know, the average increase."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2203.19,"endTime":2207.3,"body":"Maybe some people even, you know, had a huge benefit and other people didn't get any"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2207.3,"endTime":2209.61,"body":"benefit at all or even were harmed by this stuff."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2209.61,"endTime":2213.06,"body":"So, of course, we want to learn general stuff."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2213.06,"endTime":2216.81,"body":"We want to get a medicine that can be used to improve."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2217.86,"endTime":2222.93,"body":"But I think if you're really, really serious about this stuff, you don't get around doing"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2222.93,"endTime":2227.1,"body":"stuff where you test what helps and doesn't help yourself in particular."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2227.1,"endTime":2233.4,"body":"I mean, that is not, of course, for everyone to optimize everything like this."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2233.4,"endTime":2238.71,"body":"But if you really, really want to to take this to the next level, you have to know a lot"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2238.71,"endTime":2241.14,"body":"about what's going on in your own body for sure."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2241.14,"endTime":2243.84,"body":"And of all of the potential interventions."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2243.84,"endTime":2246.9,"body":"And they come into three or four broad categories."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2246.9,"endTime":2251.1,"body":"There's diet, there's exercise, there's sleep, and there's mental health, which you"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2251.1,"endTime":2252.48,"body":"mentioned earlier."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2252.63,"endTime":2254.19,"body":"Is there a pecking order?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2254.19,"endTime":2259.32,"body":"There is the one thing that's more important to the other, or is it really a case of we"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2259.32,"endTime":2262.23,"body":"are a whole body and it's all important?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2262.23,"endTime":2269.43,"body":"Yes. So of course, there's the whole don't smoke, which would be the number one, because"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2269.43,"endTime":2273.78,"body":"it's like the probably the worst thing you could do for yourself for longevity."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2273.78,"endTime":2278.37,"body":"But I mean, if you're generally a healthy person, I would say that you have to you have"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2278.37,"endTime":2285.63,"body":"to start out by by doing all that you can do in these you know, even some people think"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2285.63,"endTime":2289.77,"body":"it's a little boring, you know, like focusing on my diet, focusing on my exercise, my"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2289.77,"endTime":2291.81,"body":"sleep. I want some pill that I can take."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2291.81,"endTime":2298.44,"body":"I want to do some crazy experiment of, you know, driving into cold water or being a blood"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2298.44,"endTime":2300.81,"body":"donor or whatever, all this stuff that you can try."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2300.81,"endTime":2302.16,"body":"And that's all good and well."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2302.16,"endTime":2311.79,"body":"But I wouldn't say you could rank these, but maybe 80% healthy on the diet, getting a"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2311.79,"endTime":2317.94,"body":"little bit of exercise, especially aerobic exercise, making sure you sleep well, and then"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2317.97,"endTime":2321.18,"body":"only then you can start to actually look at the other stuff."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2321.18,"endTime":2324.48,"body":"You know, making sure you have a healthy weight as well would be another thing."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2324.48,"endTime":2327.84,"body":"And do you have a vision of your own longevity?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2327.84,"endTime":2332.13,"body":"Clearly, this is the subject, the number one subject for you to think about in terms of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2332.13,"endTime":2333.42,"body":"your academic research."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2333.42,"endTime":2338.58,"body":"But at a very personal level, do you think about yourself and maybe what you can do now"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2338.58,"endTime":2344.85,"body":"to have an impact on your life in your fifties, your seventies, your nineties, and who"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2344.85,"endTime":2346.68,"body":"knows as a centenarian?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2346.68,"endTime":2350.04,"body":"Well, I don't have the best starting point being a man, first of all."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2350.04,"endTime":2353.94,"body":"So that would already take a few years out."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2353.94,"endTime":2358.17,"body":"And then for some weird reason, and it's not something that's included in the English"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2358.17,"endTime":2364.8,"body":"book, but in the Danish book, Denmark just tends to have a really weirdly low life"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2364.8,"endTime":2368.31,"body":"expectancy, so much lower than the other Scandinavian countries."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2368.97,"endTime":2373.8,"body":"Some of the list we are aligned with something like Slovenia, which, you know, all due"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2373.8,"endTime":2380.46,"body":"respect to Slovenia, but a country that is way, way poorer than us, where people have"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2380.46,"endTime":2383.52,"body":"higher average BMIs, where they smoke more and all this stuff."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2383.52,"endTime":2388.65,"body":"But still, you know, it's not it doesn't seem to be the best starting point to be a"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2388.65,"endTime":2391.14,"body":"Danish man if you want to live a long life."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2391.8,"endTime":2397.68,"body":"That being said, of course, you know, I don't have a specific number, so depending on how"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2397.68,"endTime":2401.61,"body":"it goes, maybe maybe 100 would be would be incredible."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2401.61,"endTime":2405.24,"body":"Maybe that would be nothing when we get to that point."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2405.24,"endTime":2408.24,"body":"And my goal should really be 200 or 300, who knows?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2409.02,"endTime":2414.33,"body":"So I don't have a specific number, but of course, I'm doing this also because I hope it's"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2414.33,"endTime":2417.9,"body":"going to give me something in my life."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2418.02,"endTime":2423.21,"body":"And once you complete your studies, what are your immediate ambitions?"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2423.39,"endTime":2425.28,"body":"Well, I'm doing my PhD right now."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2425.79,"endTime":2429.87,"body":"Then I have my book that is out in 26 different countries."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2429.87,"endTime":2433.8,"body":"And, you know, I get to speak to people from all over the world."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2433.8,"endTime":2437.91,"body":"And yeah, right now, I mean, you never know."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2438.09,"endTime":2442.17,"body":"I don't know where the best place to have an impact would be if it is to continue in"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2442.17,"endTime":2444.48,"body":"academia, if it is to go to industry."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2444.96,"endTime":2451.5,"body":"So I haven't decided that, but it seems I feel pretty fortunate with what I have right"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2451.5,"endTime":2457.35,"body":"now with my book and also my research and being able to combine that."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2457.35,"endTime":2464.34,"body":"So honestly, if I could just continue like this, I have another book coming out in Danish"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2464.34,"endTime":2468.27,"body":"here in September and have a lot of other ideas I want to write about."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2468.27,"endTime":2474.27,"body":"So that would that would be an amazing career in my eyes."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2474.27,"endTime":2482.25,"body":"And then, of course, I want to I want to contribute a lot of original research as well."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2482.25,"endTime":2488.91,"body":"So that's what I'm also focusing on, of course, on my PhD and I actually think bring us"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2488.91,"endTime":2494.7,"body":"closer to understanding what aging even is, because I think that's still a big open"},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2494.7,"endTime":2496.23,"body":"question that we need to answer."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2497.16,"endTime":2501.3,"body":"I think it's a great question and a potentially very exciting career."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2501.33,"endTime":2502.86,"body":"Nicklas, thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2502.86,"endTime":2503.91,"body":"It's a great book."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2504.06,"endTime":2505.23,"body":"Thoroughly recommend it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2505.47,"endTime":2506.49,"body":"Really good to talk to you."},{"speaker":"Nicklas Brendborg","startTime":2506.67,"endTime":2507.75,"body":"Thank you for having me."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2508.44,"endTime":2513.63,"body":"And as I say, I thoroughly recommend Jellyfish Age Backwoods: Nature's secrets to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2513.63,"endTime":2517.38,"body":"longevity. And I'll put a link to the book into the show notes for this episode."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2517.38,"endTime":2523.65,"body":"You'll find them at our website LLAMApodcast.com LLAMA being Live Long and Master Aging."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2523.74,"endTime":2529.35,"body":"You'll also find a transcript of this interview there and more information in the notes"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2529.35,"endTime":2533.46,"body":"at our YouTube channel or your podcasting app of choice."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2533.46,"endTime":2534.63,"body":"Thank you so much for listening."}]}