{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1.94,"endTime":3.33,"body":"So to lifespan and healthspan."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3.35,"endTime":4.51,"body":"I will add my word."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":4.52,"endTime":5.9,"body":"Youthspan, right."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":6.02,"endTime":10.67,"body":"So I actually I was very surprised years ago when I introduced this word because it"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":10.67,"endTime":14.09,"body":"didn't exist. And I always thought this is the most important word that we don't have"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":14.12,"endTime":15.86,"body":"yet. How long can you stay young?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":18.2,"endTime":23.0,"body":"Professor Valter Longo is the director of the Longevity Institute at the University of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":23.0,"endTime":25.64,"body":"Southern California School of Gerontology."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":25.67,"endTime":30.83,"body":"He is one of the world's leading researchers on aging and age related disease."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":30.86,"endTime":32.52,"body":"Hello again. I'm Peter Bose."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":32.54,"endTime":35.9,"body":"Welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":35.99,"endTime":41.51,"body":"Dr. Longo is also the director of the Longevity and Cancer Program at the Institute of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":41.51,"endTime":44.54,"body":"Molecular Oncology in Milan, Italy."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":44.63,"endTime":49.97,"body":"And he's probably best known as the creator of the fasting mimicking diet, the FMD, a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":49.97,"endTime":55.97,"body":"science based regime that embraces the benefits of fasting without having completely to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":55.97,"endTime":58.82,"body":"give up food. I've been following the work of Dr."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":58.82,"endTime":60.84,"body":"Longo for more than ten years."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":60.84,"endTime":66.03,"body":"We did our first interview in 2012 and has since developed what he calls the Longevity"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":66.06,"endTime":69.92,"body":"Diet, which is also the title of one of his books."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":69.93,"endTime":74.31,"body":"So how has Valter's research developed over the past decade?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":74.34,"endTime":76.53,"body":"We met at his lab in Los Angeles."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":76.56,"endTime":81.0,"body":"We discussed the latest science behind the FMD, what he's learned as the diet has been"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":81.0,"endTime":86.31,"body":"embraced around the world, its implications for cancer and Alzheimer's, and where he"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":86.31,"endTime":90.82,"body":"stands now on the best fasting protocols to promote good health."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":90.84,"endTime":92.4,"body":"What about skipping breakfast?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":92.73,"endTime":97.83,"body":"A lot of people were under the impression that, 'Oh, well, I'm skipping breakfast, so it's"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":97.83,"endTime":101.79,"body":"good for me. I eat less and it's healthy for me.' But that's not the case, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":101.82,"endTime":106.62,"body":"When you have a pillar, a central pillar like epidemiology keeps telling you that people"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":106.62,"endTime":110.55,"body":"that skip breakfast live shorter, more cardiovascular disease, potentially more cancer."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":110.85,"endTime":111.96,"body":"Don't mess with it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":111.97,"endTime":116.29,"body":"Dr. Longo also addresses the global crisis caused by poor diets."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":116.31,"endTime":120.77,"body":"Where's the outrage at the number of people who are dying compared with COVID?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":121.62,"endTime":125.43,"body":"When the viru was spreading, the journalists went crazy and said, Hey, what's going on?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":125.45,"endTime":126.96,"body":"Are we going to deal with this? People are dying."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":126.96,"endTime":129.43,"body":"Right? And it's just all over the news, all over the place."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":129.45,"endTime":136.83,"body":"When 11 million people in one year die of bad food and too much food, okay, that's okay."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":136.83,"endTime":138.03,"body":"You know, that's part of life."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":138.03,"endTime":139.57,"body":"That's not right. That's not part of life."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":139.59,"endTime":145.35,"body":"Food, obesity, fasting and the evolving research on what it takes to reach a ripe old age"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":145.35,"endTime":147.6,"body":"and still enjoy good health."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":149.59,"endTime":153.64,"body":"Valter Longo. Welcome back to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":153.68,"endTime":155.14,"body":"Well, thanks. Thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":155.23,"endTime":160.9,"body":"And would you believe ten years since we probably sat in this very same laboratory here at"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":160.93,"endTime":164.77,"body":"USC and had our first conversation about human longevity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":164.86,"endTime":166.18,"body":"It doesn't feel like a decade ago?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":166.21,"endTime":169.45,"body":"No, not at all. I would say maybe five."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":169.99,"endTime":171.67,"body":"Yeah. So great."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":171.67,"endTime":173.41,"body":"You know, we're still going."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":173.56,"endTime":175.06,"body":"And how are things going?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":175.07,"endTime":176.38,"body":"You're telling me you're busy?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":176.89,"endTime":184.36,"body":"Things are going well, and I think we're very happy about the lots of results and lots of"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":184.51,"endTime":185.77,"body":"different arenas."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":185.77,"endTime":192.43,"body":"About aging and and cancer and diabetes and both the Longevity Diet and the Fasting"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":192.43,"endTime":200.35,"body":"Mimicking Diet. I think we're we're moving forward and beginning to show that it works in"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":200.35,"endTime":204.46,"body":"the clinical setting and especially in the randomized clinical trial setting."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":204.83,"endTime":209.03,"body":"Well, I want to talk to you more about those just big picture to start with."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":209.06,"endTime":212.96,"body":"If you look back over the last decade, what have you learned?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":212.99,"endTime":217.49,"body":"Maybe something you didn't fully understand ten years ago that's made a really"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":217.49,"endTime":223.73,"body":"significant impact on you over the last few years in terms of your science and your"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":223.73,"endTime":224.18,"body":"goals?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":224.48,"endTime":228.02,"body":"Yeah ten years is a lot for for our world."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":228.02,"endTime":233.99,"body":"So for sure, if we think about the genetics of aging, you were involved in covering the"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":233.99,"endTime":240.47,"body":"Larons - these little people that have growth hormone deficiency receptor deficiency."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":240.5,"endTime":248.75,"body":"And so now I think we're getting closer to showing that the last component, which was"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":248.75,"endTime":256.28,"body":"heart is also protected or these mutations that are protecting clearly against diabetes,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":256.31,"endTime":262.34,"body":"against cancer, against cognitive decline, people suspected that, yes, maybe you're"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":262.34,"endTime":265.52,"body":"protected against those, but you get more cardiovascular disease."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":265.52,"endTime":272.05,"body":"And so now we're very close to showing that's not the case, which makes it a very, very"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":272.05,"endTime":279.82,"body":"interesting drug target or nutritional target to prevent diseases, slow down the aging"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":279.82,"endTime":282.97,"body":"process. And so we're very happy about that."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":282.97,"endTime":287.53,"body":"And of course, that connects with 30 years of research from lots of different labs"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":288.13,"endTime":292.72,"body":"looking at growth hormone, IG-1, and also some of the original discoveries in our lab, in"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":292.72,"endTime":299.35,"body":"the lab of Cynthia Kenyon and others about IGF-1 and growth pathways like TOR or 6"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":299.35,"endTime":304.0,"body":"kinase. So that's very good at the at the genetics level,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":304.0,"endTime":307.66,"body":"Maybe you could just explain a little bit of the background there for anyone who hasn't"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":307.66,"endTime":309.07,"body":"seen our podcast before."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":309.52,"endTime":314.65,"body":"I went on a trip with you to Ecuador to meet the little people, as you call them, people"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":314.65,"endTime":320.59,"body":"with Laron syndrome that have a faulty receptor, which means they can't utilize IGF one."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":320.59,"endTime":324.85,"body":"What was the - that was a big breakthrough for you when you discovered this very small"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":324.85,"endTime":330.19,"body":"community of people and you were almost able to put pieces together in the jigsaw that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":330.61,"endTime":333.88,"body":"explained some of the research you'd already been doing."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":334.12,"endTime":341.26,"body":"Right? So the research from from my lab 30 years ago showed that if you take a unicellular"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":341.41,"endTime":348.16,"body":"organism and you mutate all its genes, the one gene that makes it live the longest, the"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":348.16,"endTime":352.06,"body":"mutation that makes it live the longest is in a growth pathway."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":352.06,"endTime":356.51,"body":"And so these mutants lived three times longer, but there were also dwarf."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":356.56,"endTime":359.5,"body":"So the cell is much smaller than normal."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":359.5,"endTime":363.15,"body":"So then John Kopchick and Andre Barki showed this in mice."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":363.15,"endTime":366.76,"body":"The mice that have growth hormone or growth hormone receptor deficient."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":366.76,"endTime":370.75,"body":"So the receptor is what responds to the growth hormone."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":371.17,"endTime":373.42,"body":"So it gets activated by the growth hormone."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":373.42,"endTime":379.24,"body":"And so and they shown in mice that these have actually the record longevity extension in"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":379.24,"endTime":380.52,"body":"a mammal, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":380.59,"endTime":381.67,"body":"So yeah."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":381.67,"endTime":386.2,"body":"So then connecting the dwarf yeast and the dwarf mice then there was obvious to look at"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":386.2,"endTime":389.41,"body":"the, the dwarf people or the little people."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":389.41,"endTime":395.95,"body":"We don't call them dwarf and, and that's when you came around, I think right when we were"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":395.95,"endTime":402.13,"body":"about to publish or we just had published the first results on diabetes and cancer just"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":402.13,"endTime":406.96,"body":"like the mice, these little people that have a deficiency in their receptor or the growth"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":406.96,"endTime":413.35,"body":"hormone they were, they rarely develop cancer, rarely develop diabetes."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":413.35,"endTime":419.29,"body":"And so at the time, first of all, the criticism was probably not real."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":421.09,"endTime":422.56,"body":"Because the numbers are quite small, aren't."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":422.56,"endTime":423.94,"body":"It's about 100 people."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":423.94,"endTime":427.09,"body":"It's about 350 in the world and there's 100 in Ecuador."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":427.09,"endTime":431.2,"body":"And so, yeah, the skepticism was there."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":431.2,"endTime":438.13,"body":"And so eventually then Zvi Laron in the Middle East and Europe showed something very"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":438.13,"endTime":445.3,"body":"similar with surveys that he was doing on 350 people and cancer and but also the parallel"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":445.3,"endTime":450.03,"body":"with the mice very similar effects on cognition."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":450.03,"endTime":454.74,"body":"So, you know losing learning and memories ability."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":455.25,"endTime":458.73,"body":"We clearly show that here."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":458.73,"endTime":464.22,"body":"We actually brought them to Los Angeles a few years ago, and we showed that with what's"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":464.22,"endTime":469.83,"body":"called functional MRIs, that they had a cognitive performance that was more similar to"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":469.83,"endTime":471.96,"body":"people much younger than they were."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":472.17,"endTime":474.45,"body":"Actually I was here that very week."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":474.45,"endTime":476.81,"body":"And you had a little party outside this building?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":476.82,"endTime":479.48,"body":"Oh, that's right. You were? Yeah, You were here for that, too."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":479.49,"endTime":480.63,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":480.63,"endTime":481.89,"body":"So so, yeah."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":482.34,"endTime":488.49,"body":"And then, of course, the last criticism, the big one since it's been 12 years since the"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":488.49,"endTime":492.99,"body":"original papers was, well, maybe they get more cardiovascular disease."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":492.99,"endTime":497.91,"body":"And so then of course if you're protected from diabetes, cancer and cognitive decline,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":497.91,"endTime":500.13,"body":"but you get more cardiovascular disease, you get a problem."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":500.13,"endTime":504.09,"body":"And and now it turns out that if anything, they seem to be protected from cardiovascular"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":504.09,"endTime":508.05,"body":"disease. I don't go into the details because we haven't published that yet, but certainly"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":508.65,"endTime":515.64,"body":"good news. Now, we brought a cardiologist down to Ecuador and we spent a lot of time with"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":515.64,"endTime":519.21,"body":"Ecuadorian cardiologists doing all kinds of tests."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":519.21,"endTime":524.88,"body":"And and we also brought them here and did tests here and by cardiologists here at USC."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":525.66,"endTime":531.75,"body":"And so the data in general confirms that they do not have increased cardiovascular risk"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":531.75,"endTime":537.18,"body":"factor, nor do they have increased any evidence of increased cardiovascular disease."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":537.18,"endTime":541.89,"body":"But what was interesting to me about that community is that they might well be resistant,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":541.89,"endTime":546.15,"body":"if you want to use that word, to getting cardiovascular disease, getting diabetes and the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":546.15,"endTime":551.13,"body":"killer diseases of old age, they they don't live exceptionally long."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":551.13,"endTime":555.3,"body":"And they weren't a particularly happy community of people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":555.3,"endTime":557.55,"body":"They didn't want to be small."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":557.55,"endTime":563.79,"body":"So it was almost the while you might see some benefits of having low IGF one for them, it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":563.79,"endTime":567.0,"body":"wasn't a benefit. It was a major hindrance to their lifestyle."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":567.42,"endTime":570.01,"body":"Yeah, of course. Right. So they're born with the mutation, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":570.01,"endTime":576.07,"body":"So nobody's is proposing that people should be small so that they can they can live"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":576.07,"endTime":577.24,"body":"longer and healthier."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":577.57,"endTime":584.74,"body":"The point was to identify the genes that can have that effect and then, of course, allow"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":584.74,"endTime":589.54,"body":"people to grow to a normal height and size and then intervene at that point."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":589.54,"endTime":594.19,"body":"Right. So with drugs or with with nutrition, they can control the genes."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":594.19,"endTime":596.38,"body":"They control the aging process."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":596.38,"endTime":602.59,"body":"Right? So, yeah, so and also we have other mutations that even in simple organisms that"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":602.59,"endTime":603.76,"body":"do not affect growth, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":603.76,"endTime":607.27,"body":"So we already know that you can intervene in other ways."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":607.27,"endTime":613.27,"body":"So the what we call the protein pathway, it's at the center of growth and longevity."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":613.27,"endTime":615.52,"body":"But then on the other side, we have the sugar pathway."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":615.52,"endTime":619.36,"body":"And the sugar pathway is not at the center of growth, just longevity."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":619.36,"endTime":626.77,"body":"Right. So then then yes, we we and this is why we've been then the other big side of what"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":626.77,"endTime":633.67,"body":"we work on is fasting and fasting mimicking diets and what's called the longevity diet."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":633.67,"endTime":640.15,"body":"And so these are are interventions that are controlling the genes that control the aging"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":640.15,"endTime":647.44,"body":"process. And sure enough, now we're we having more and more evidence that we cannot do a"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":647.44,"endTime":653.71,"body":"lifelong study, human study like we did for the Larons of Ecuador, because, of course,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":654.19,"endTime":655.86,"body":"they were born with a mutation."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":655.86,"endTime":657.76,"body":"And we can see how long did they live."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":657.76,"endTime":666.13,"body":"And but we can do risk factor studies and we can do also biological age studies where we"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":666.52,"endTime":673.09,"body":"where we look at our biologically young someone when they do these dietary interventions"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":673.09,"endTime":673.48,"body":"or not."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":673.81,"endTime":677.68,"body":"And we'll continue my conversation with Professor Longo in just a moment."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":677.68,"endTime":682.72,"body":"But first, I'd like to thank Timeline Nutrition for supporting this episode of LLAMA."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":682.75,"endTime":685.41,"body":"The Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":685.41,"endTime":692.02,"body":"Timeline make Mitopure, which is a highly pure form of Urolithin A the gut metabolite"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":692.05,"endTime":696.86,"body":"that's been clinically shown to energize cells from within."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":696.86,"endTime":701.23,"body":"The aging process affects our cells much earlier than you might think."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":701.26,"endTime":706.0,"body":"It leads to a slower metabolism, lower energy and weaker muscles."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":706.0,"endTime":709.36,"body":"But the evidence shows there's something we can do about it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":709.36,"endTime":714.55,"body":"Mitopure, which is generally regarded as safe by the US Food and Drug Administration,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":714.55,"endTime":720.67,"body":"boosts the health of our mitochondria, the battery packs of our cells and improves our"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":720.67,"endTime":721.78,"body":"muscle strength."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":721.87,"endTime":727.15,"body":"Now I want to do everything I can to stay strong and agile as I grow older."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":727.27,"endTime":732.34,"body":"I've been following this nutritional supplement since before it went on the market and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":732.34,"endTime":736.8,"body":"using it myself, buying it from Timeline from when it was first available."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":736.8,"endTime":741.13,"body":"For this podcast, I've interviewed many of the leading researchers who for more than a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":741.13,"endTime":747.24,"body":"decade have been unraveling the mechanisms involved in this aspect of nutrition."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":747.24,"endTime":749.97,"body":"And the published science is compelling."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":750.27,"endTime":755.49,"body":"If you'd like to join me on this journey towards a long and healthy life, Timeline is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":755.49,"endTime":758.31,"body":"offering 10% off your first order."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":758.34,"endTime":763.47,"body":"Go to timelinenutrition.com/llama and use the code LLAMA."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":763.5,"endTime":767.58,"body":"That's LLAMA to get 10% off your order."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":767.61,"endTime":769.92,"body":"The link is also in our show notes."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":769.95,"endTime":773.61,"body":"Go to timelinenutrition.com/llama."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":779.68,"endTime":781.99,"body":"This is the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":781.99,"endTime":786.58,"body":"Our guest is the longevity researcher, Professor Valter Longo from the University of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":786.58,"endTime":787.61,"body":"Southern California."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":787.63,"endTime":792.88,"body":"So in that first conversation ten years ago in this laboratory, you were just about to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":792.88,"endTime":798.13,"body":"and you were preparing to do your first clinical trial involving human beings to look at"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":798.13,"endTime":802.27,"body":"the feasibility and the safety of the fasting mimicking diet that you've just mentioned."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":802.27,"endTime":806.43,"body":"And full disclosure here, I was one of the participants, one of the first 19."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":806.44,"endTime":806.74,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":806.74,"endTime":809.07,"body":"In that trial. And I think eventually you had about 100 people in."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":809.11,"endTime":810.43,"body":"And we had 100 for that."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":810.43,"endTime":816.7,"body":"And then and then I think that the rest of it worked better than we would have expected."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":816.7,"endTime":823.54,"body":"So it went all the way to cancer patients, diabetes, patients, and every trial thus far"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":823.54,"endTime":829.27,"body":"done independently of us, meaning that it was run by oncologists at University of Leiden,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":829.3,"endTime":832.87,"body":"University of Heidelberg, University of Milan."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":833.02,"endTime":840.62,"body":"And and so patients, for example, cancer patients, breast cancer patients that received"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":840.83,"endTime":845.93,"body":"cycles of the fasting mimicking diet together with chemotherapy, they were much less"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":845.93,"endTime":848.87,"body":"likely to be resistant to chemotherapy."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":848.87,"endTime":857.84,"body":"And in fact, in the Leiden trial with 125 patients, the patients that did at least half"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":857.84,"endTime":862.85,"body":"of the cycles of the chemotherapy with the fasting mimicking diet were five times less"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":862.85,"endTime":870.83,"body":"likely to be resistant to the chemotherapy than if they did the regular diet."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":870.83,"endTime":871.04,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":871.04,"endTime":872.72,"body":"That's quite a remarkable figure."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":872.84,"endTime":875.36,"body":"Yeah, it's very impressive."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":875.36,"endTime":879.95,"body":"And so, I mean, it's a good start when you when you do the first large clinical trial and"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":879.95,"endTime":881.75,"body":"you see these kinds of changes."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":881.75,"endTime":889.73,"body":"And the interesting thing, I think that did this happen in spite of the relatively low"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":889.73,"endTime":896.48,"body":"compliance. So what happened in the trial was that we did not have dedicated, because we"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":896.48,"endTime":902.09,"body":"didn't run it. And so they just had the typical nutritionist dietician that has been"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":902.12,"endTime":905.54,"body":"trained to think that a cancer patient should eat more."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":905.54,"endTime":913.16,"body":"And and so we suspect that and we see this all the time that someone has been trained to"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":913.16,"endTime":919.04,"body":"tell a patient to eat more if they're exposed to a trial, they may not be as as"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":919.04,"endTime":920.33,"body":"encouraging to patients."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":920.51,"endTime":924.83,"body":"But in spite of that and in spite of the low compliance they still worked, which I"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":924.83,"endTime":926.18,"body":"thought it was remarkable."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":926.36,"endTime":931.58,"body":"So almost everybody completed one cycle, but then it went down to 50% of two cycles of"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":931.58,"endTime":936.02,"body":"the fasting mimicking diet and then down to 35% when it was four or or three or more"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":936.02,"endTime":943.01,"body":"cycles. And the reason now we the trial University of Milan, the National Cancer"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":943.01,"endTime":948.56,"body":"Institute in Milan, suggests, as we have shown for mice, that the reason for that may be"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":948.56,"endTime":956.27,"body":"that the T cells, the immune system is now recognizing the cancer cell."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":956.48,"endTime":962.21,"body":"So the fasting mimicking diet is making the cells much more recognizable by the immune"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":962.21,"endTime":968.72,"body":"system. So then all you need is that to happen once the cancer becomes an antigen for for"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":968.72,"endTime":971.54,"body":"the immune system, then it doesn't really matter if you keep doing it right."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":971.81,"endTime":973.07,"body":"So that's what's interesting."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":973.07,"endTime":977.9,"body":"And now we and a number of other labs have shown these effects with or without"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":977.9,"endTime":983.96,"body":"immunotherapy. So if you do if you do chemo plus fasting mimicking diet, it seems to"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":985.1,"endTime":987.35,"body":"stimulate immunotherapy like effects."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":987.35,"endTime":991.82,"body":"If you do the if you remove the chemo and you do the fasting mimicking diet plus"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":991.82,"endTime":996.47,"body":"immunotherapy, now the immunotherapy works a lot better or better."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":996.62,"endTime":999.26,"body":"So so, yes, so the cancer was very positive."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":999.26,"endTime":1003.4,"body":"And the other one even more positive and more solid than the cancer has been."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1003.4,"endTime":1012.04,"body":"The diabetes now because the diabetes now this is the the third trial one is published"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1012.04,"endTime":1018.16,"body":"and two are not yet published with either diabetes or prediabetes."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1018.16,"endTime":1022.6,"body":"And they all showing very clear effects and a onesie."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1023.23,"endTime":1029.36,"body":"And for example, Heidelberg published a randomized trial when they had five days a month."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1029.36,"endTime":1031.42,"body":"They took diabetes, diabetic patients."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1031.45,"endTime":1036.49,"body":"They did six cycles of the fasting, mimicking that once a month for six months."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1036.49,"endTime":1040.99,"body":"And then they compared it to six cycles of a mediterranean diet for five days, once a"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1040.99,"endTime":1042.1,"body":"month for six months."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1042.1,"endTime":1046.39,"body":"And those that had the Mediterranean diet cycles, nothing happened at all."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1046.39,"endTime":1053.26,"body":"And those that were on the FMD five, six cycles, there was a major drop in insulin"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1053.26,"endTime":1062.53,"body":"resistance. And then I think it was about a seven fold higher reduction in drug use than"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1062.53,"endTime":1064.64,"body":"with the drug in the drug group alone, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1064.69,"endTime":1071.32,"body":"So there were seven times more likely to reduce drug use if a diabetic if they're"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1071.5,"endTime":1076.57,"body":"combining the drugs with the fasting mimicking diet than if they were doing the the drugs"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1076.57,"endTime":1080.68,"body":"alone. So, yes, there was a very impressive and now there is another one, several"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1081.04,"endTime":1085.26,"body":"additional trials that are coming out that are going to show the same."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1085.45,"endTime":1088.24,"body":"You're also looking at Alzheimer's in relation to the diet."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1088.27,"endTime":1089.77,"body":"We are also looking at Alzheimer's."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1089.77,"endTime":1095.65,"body":"So we publish on the feasibility of the first I think 20 or 30 patients together with the"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1095.65,"endTime":1097.42,"body":"mouse. In mice work very well."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1097.45,"endTime":1100.45,"body":"But also it was it was nice."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1100.45,"endTime":1104.8,"body":"At least that's all we know thus far to see the Alzheimer's patients, which are much"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1104.8,"endTime":1109.47,"body":"older. We develop a special diet for Alzheimer's patients."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1109.48,"endTime":1114.07,"body":"And is the theory that the diet can help with the progression of the disease?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1114.07,"endTime":1119.17,"body":"This isn't a cure for Alzheimer's, but this is something that perhaps soften some of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1119.17,"endTime":1119.92,"body":"symptoms."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1121.0,"endTime":1128.8,"body":"We don't I mean, obviously, we don't know what it is yet, but in mice and in lots of"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1128.8,"endTime":1136.16,"body":"different models, let's say when we did say pancreatic damage, gut damage and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1136.21,"endTime":1142.34,"body":"damage to lots of different systems, blood, we actually repair."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1142.4,"endTime":1149.51,"body":"Right. We in lots of these, for example, we we damaged the pancreas in a mouse and then"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1149.51,"endTime":1151.13,"body":"they don't make insulin anymore."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1151.13,"endTime":1152.57,"body":"And then we start the fasting mimicking diet."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1152.57,"endTime":1158.72,"body":"And you probably remember this and they the pancreas there is a reprograming of the"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1158.72,"endTime":1161.48,"body":"pancreas that involves Yamanaka factors, by the way."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1161.48,"endTime":1168.2,"body":"Right? So the cell is now going into a more embryonic like state and then a transition to"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1168.2,"endTime":1170.27,"body":"the state and then starts making insulin again."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1170.42,"endTime":1173.45,"body":"So then we now know this from multiple systems."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1173.45,"endTime":1175.22,"body":"Does it happen in the brain?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1175.25,"endTime":1180.95,"body":"We don't know. So could it actually the brain become younger and repair itself?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1182.3,"endTime":1183.65,"body":"I don't know. It's science fiction right now."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1183.65,"endTime":1188.15,"body":"But but certainly in the mouse seems to be happening or certainly the slowing of the"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1188.15,"endTime":1189.86,"body":"cognitive decline is happening."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1190.52,"endTime":1194.78,"body":"Now, how much of that is rejuvenation versus slowing down in the brain?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1194.78,"endTime":1203.21,"body":"We don't know. But sometimes we start with mice that have already developed plaques and"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1203.21,"endTime":1207.23,"body":"tangles and then we act and it seems to still work."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1207.23,"endTime":1213.62,"body":"So so then that's suggesting that some of the effects at least in mice is, is making them"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1213.62,"endTime":1216.26,"body":"better and not just slowing down the progression."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1216.5,"endTime":1218.63,"body":"So let's talk about the diet itself."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1218.63,"endTime":1222.92,"body":"And I remember that clinical trial, little white boxes that are set out day one, two,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1222.92,"endTime":1227.27,"body":"three, four, five. And I subsequently did the diet several times over a period of years."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1227.36,"endTime":1232.31,"body":"What have you learned over the many, many years now that people around the world have"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1232.31,"endTime":1233.42,"body":"been using this diet?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1233.42,"endTime":1238.55,"body":"Clearly you have a lot of data in terms of people's tolerance of the diet, their"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1238.55,"endTime":1241.37,"body":"likelihood to want to do it again and again and again."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1241.37,"endTime":1243.2,"body":"I found it quite repetitive."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1243.23,"endTime":1248.08,"body":"But I'm just curious in terms of what you've learned through people's responses to it."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1248.09,"endTime":1255.95,"body":"Well, I think that in general, we tell we tell people that maybe they should do it when"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1255.95,"endTime":1259.04,"body":"they need to do it, and not just all the time."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1259.04,"endTime":1265.88,"body":"And so probably most people will have to do it, say, once every four months and it's five"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1265.88,"endTime":1272.42,"body":"days. Right. So I think even if it is repetitive, five days every four months or and and"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1272.42,"endTime":1277.79,"body":"some people slip and maybe do every six months, I think it's even hard to remember what"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1277.79,"endTime":1280.22,"body":"you ate for those five days, six months ago."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1280.22,"endTime":1285.47,"body":"Right. So I don't think that that's an issue, much more an issue in a cancer patient than"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1285.47,"endTime":1290.84,"body":"might have to do it every three weeks with the chemo or with the radiotherapy or with the"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1290.84,"endTime":1292.46,"body":"immunotherapy, etcetera, etcetera."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1292.46,"endTime":1294.32,"body":"So that's not an issue."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1294.32,"endTime":1302.78,"body":"I mean, I think that I'm I, I see that it's if people realize the benefits that they can"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1302.78,"endTime":1307.61,"body":"have the they don't mind doing it and keep doing it."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1307.61,"endTime":1313.94,"body":"And I see that we saw that they have an easier time doing it as they're used to it."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1315.02,"endTime":1324.7,"body":"But also I think that there is a lot of mentality, regulatory mentality."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1324.7,"endTime":1329.2,"body":"I think that is FDA driven and which is good and bad."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1329.2,"endTime":1330.22,"body":"I mean, it's good. Why?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1330.25,"endTime":1332.2,"body":"Because obviously you want to regulate things."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1332.2,"endTime":1333.46,"body":"You don't want to improvise."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1333.46,"endTime":1341.44,"body":"But it's also I'm thinking that pharmaceutical influence is such that that there is not"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1341.44,"endTime":1344.13,"body":"really a careful alternative for things, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1344.14,"endTime":1347.05,"body":"So basically the idea is you cannot say anything."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1347.35,"endTime":1349.84,"body":"You cannot even mention a disease."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1349.84,"endTime":1355.63,"body":"Right? Somebody told me some of the lawyers told me that I wasn't even able to describe"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1355.87,"endTime":1361.21,"body":"that I shouldn't even describe our clinical trials, that we run in an independent"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1361.24,"endTime":1364.24,"body":"hospital because I'm a founder of a company."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1364.99,"endTime":1374.44,"body":"And yeah, so so I think that it's it's very hard to unless"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1374.44,"endTime":1376.48,"body":"something even it's a food it's."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1376.6,"endTime":1379.06,"body":"Very hard to explain to people what it can do."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1379.24,"endTime":1384.88,"body":"So I can tell you about the diabetes trial, but but nobody can really know about that"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1384.88,"endTime":1388.21,"body":"unless they go and read the literature."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1388.21,"endTime":1393.25,"body":"So I think at some point the regulation should should just be careful as it is right now,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1393.25,"endTime":1400.81,"body":"but also allow for a more allow patients to have more options."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1400.82,"endTime":1402.55,"body":"Right. It's not all about drugs."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1402.55,"endTime":1409.39,"body":"Yes, you may need drugs or you may need drugs plus the diet, or you may need drug plus a"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1409.39,"endTime":1411.22,"body":"product that is based on food."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1411.22,"endTime":1417.13,"body":"You know, and that's that's what I hope is going to happen just to get people much more."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1417.13,"endTime":1418.99,"body":"And doctors and doctors, by the way."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1418.99,"endTime":1423.04,"body":"Right. More in tune with this having this in the toolkit."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1423.04,"endTime":1424.72,"body":"Right. That hasn't happened yet."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1424.72,"endTime":1427.9,"body":"And I think a lot of it is because of regulatory sciences."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1428.32,"endTime":1431.92,"body":"And just to explain the background here, you mentioned being the founder of the company."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1431.92,"endTime":1435.49,"body":"There is a commercial company that is selling this product around the world."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1435.49,"endTime":1438.29,"body":"This is presumably a question that you get asked a lot."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1438.29,"endTime":1442.52,"body":"And I know because you've explained to me in the past that any profits, any money that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1442.52,"endTime":1446.87,"body":"you potentially could make, in fact, you are putting that money into a non profit"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1446.87,"endTime":1447.62,"body":"organization."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1447.63,"endTime":1450.56,"body":"Yeah. Not just the potentially, you know, the one that I would make right now."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1450.56,"endTime":1456.38,"body":"They're all given to the charity and universities so I don't."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1456.38,"endTime":1459.98,"body":"I should have a consulting fee but I don't get it."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1459.98,"endTime":1461.54,"body":"You know, this is given to charity, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1461.54,"endTime":1467.12,"body":"So so I thought it was important to, to not say, oh, one day, but it was important to"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1467.12,"endTime":1469.13,"body":"also say right now I'm giving it up."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1469.13,"endTime":1471.11,"body":"And so anybody can come and check it."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1471.11,"endTime":1475.55,"body":"And yeah, so I just think that I thought that was very important."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1475.55,"endTime":1481.52,"body":"The shares I cannot use any of the, you know, the company was sold or it becomes public."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1481.52,"endTime":1485.93,"body":"I'm not I will not use the income or sell the shares."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1485.93,"endTime":1491.39,"body":"I mean I can sell it to give it to the to the charities but not to pocket anything."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1491.39,"endTime":1497.39,"body":"So I make exactly negative, you know, because sometimes I lose money out of out of this."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1497.39,"endTime":1498.41,"body":"Right. Just like my books."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1498.42,"endTime":1503.95,"body":"Also my book income all 100% goes to to the foundation."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1503.95,"endTime":1505.79,"body":"In fact, I don't even own my books anymore."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1505.94,"endTime":1507.41,"body":"They're owned by the foundation."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1507.41,"endTime":1510.14,"body":"And, you know, and the foundation bought in Los Angeles."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1510.14,"endTime":1512.78,"body":"Now we have three in in Italy."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1512.81,"endTime":1514.91,"body":"This is Create Cures"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1514.91,"endTime":1519.62,"body":"Create cures. And, you know, so it's like we're seeing thousands of patients a year with"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1519.62,"endTime":1523.4,"body":"cancer, with diabetes and also seeing people."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1523.4,"endTime":1529.76,"body":"They're seeing people that the clinical team without without pay."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1529.76,"endTime":1533.96,"body":"Right. So if you cannot pay, if you can show that you cannot pay the the treated for"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1533.96,"endTime":1534.41,"body":"free."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1534.71,"endTime":1539.6,"body":"Obviously feel and just from what you've been saying, a certain weight of responsibility"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1539.6,"endTime":1543.56,"body":"when you're talking when you're doing interviews like this and many other interviews that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1543.56,"endTime":1548.45,"body":"you do, the books that you write, the papers that you write a responsibility because you"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1548.45,"endTime":1550.46,"body":"are something of a rock star."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1550.73,"endTime":1553.91,"body":"I know you wanted to be a rock star once upon a time, but you're a rock star in the field"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1553.91,"endTime":1555.29,"body":"of of longevity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1555.29,"endTime":1560.54,"body":"And people listen to what you say and I just wonder to what extent that weighs on you in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1560.54,"endTime":1565.61,"body":"terms of the responsibility to talk accurately and especially not to give people false"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1565.61,"endTime":1566.3,"body":"hope."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1566.6,"endTime":1568.16,"body":"Yeah, it goes both ways, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1568.52,"endTime":1570.29,"body":"And that's the hardest part."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1570.53,"endTime":1572.78,"body":"Not giving false hopes is easy."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1572.81,"endTime":1574.13,"body":"Don't say anything. Right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1574.16,"endTime":1581.81,"body":"What's not easy is to say, okay, I want to give you some hope."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1581.81,"endTime":1584.0,"body":"Right. And so that's a harder part, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1584.0,"endTime":1588.08,"body":"So how do you do that without upsetting the oncologist, the neurologist?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1588.2,"endTime":1591.17,"body":"And that's where we've been navigating and that's the hardest part."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1591.17,"endTime":1593.93,"body":"So I don't think it's a responsibility more."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1593.93,"endTime":1600.47,"body":"It's like I feel like, you know, if I had that problem, I would probably want somebody to"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1600.47,"endTime":1603.35,"body":"say, I don't want to give you quackery, You know, I don't want to give you crazy stuff."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1603.35,"endTime":1604.7,"body":"I don't want to give you unsafe stuff."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1604.7,"endTime":1608.42,"body":"But if somebody just told you that you got to two years to live like we have glioma"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1608.42,"endTime":1612.89,"body":"patients almost every day, the contacts, glioblastoma, you're in trouble."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1612.89,"endTime":1615.68,"body":"Right? And so I don't accept anymore."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1615.68,"endTime":1619.07,"body":"And it took me many years to develop this this courage."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1619.07,"endTime":1621.89,"body":"But I don't accept anymore the explanation of the oncologist."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1621.89,"endTime":1626.11,"body":"You're going to die. It's like, no, we have people that have not died, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1626.12,"endTime":1627.5,"body":"We have people with advanced age."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1627.5,"endTime":1628.93,"body":"And we have just published."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1628.93,"endTime":1636.26,"body":"Vernieri just published on five cases, of advanced stage, breast cancer, pancreatic,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1636.29,"endTime":1642.89,"body":"colon, and the title in the European Journal of Cancer say exceptional responses."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1642.89,"endTime":1646.58,"body":"Right. FMD fasting mimicking diet together with the standard of care."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1646.58,"endTime":1652.04,"body":"Right. So so now I think the more than responsibility we feel like we have to say, hey,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1652.22,"endTime":1655.12,"body":"you know it may not work, but it may work, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1655.13,"endTime":1657.23,"body":"So work with your oncologist."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1657.26,"endTime":1662.21,"body":"Let's form a team, work with the Foundation, and let's see how far we can do this, you"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1662.21,"endTime":1664.21,"body":"know? So, yeah, that's that's the hard part."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1664.34,"endTime":1667.79,"body":"Tell people, oh, you know, I cannot tell you this is what we used to do."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1667.79,"endTime":1672.77,"body":"And, and then at some point we felt like, come on now we have, you know, ten clinical"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1672.77,"endTime":1675.83,"body":"trials, hundreds of papers in animals."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1675.83,"endTime":1680.91,"body":"I mean, at what? Point that you're going to, you know, at least say there is a chance,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1681.9,"endTime":1686.25,"body":"you know, we don't want to give you false hopes, but also we don't want to not tell you"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1686.28,"endTime":1688.53,"body":"what we know. Right. So we know what we know."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1688.53,"endTime":1693.63,"body":"And the clinical trials have results and you should be aware of it and you should have"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1693.63,"endTime":1697.68,"body":"professionals to get working with your oncologist unless the oncologist refuses."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1697.68,"endTime":1699.12,"body":"And sometimes that happens."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1699.12,"endTime":1703.92,"body":"And but even then, we still help them and we say, okay, you're going to have to get it"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1703.92,"endTime":1706.59,"body":"approved by your oncologist or find another oncologist."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1706.77,"endTime":1710.55,"body":"We cannot override the oncologist or they cannot override the oncologist."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1710.55,"endTime":1715.17,"body":"But that's the way we've been doing it with thousands of patients all over the world."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1715.17,"endTime":1717.69,"body":"And, you know, so far we haven't got a single complaint."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1717.69,"endTime":1719.58,"body":"So I think we're probably doing a pretty good job."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1719.59,"endTime":1721.29,"body":"I hope it doesn't start now."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1721.29,"endTime":1721.68,"body":"You know."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1722.22,"endTime":1725.07,"body":"So let's talk a little bit more about diet and food."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1725.07,"endTime":1728.79,"body":"And I guess another question that you get frequently is, well, okay, so you've got this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1728.79,"endTime":1732.9,"body":"five day regime that people might do every 3 or 4 months."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1732.9,"endTime":1734.76,"body":"What about the in-between times?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1734.76,"endTime":1740.14,"body":"And I know a lot of people gravitate towards and I have time restricted eating and that's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1740.19,"endTime":1745.23,"body":"essentially is watching the clock in terms of how many hours you fast for and for most"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1745.23,"endTime":1750.96,"body":"people, that's overnight and and what the optimum number is in terms of fasting hours."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1750.96,"endTime":1757.4,"body":"How have your thoughts on that developed and where are you now on those in-between times,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1757.41,"endTime":1761.37,"body":"not only the regime that you follow, but what we eat?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1761.43,"endTime":1768.0,"body":"Yeah. So as you know, I base everything on five pillars and we can list them if you want"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1768.03,"endTime":1770.31,"body":"or people can go look it up in the book."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1770.31,"endTime":1775.08,"body":"But you know, epidemiological data, clinical trials, basic research, centenarian studies"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1775.08,"endTime":1776.31,"body":"and complex systems. Right."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1776.31,"endTime":1783.51,"body":"So so we feel that this idea, this old idea, I just pick epidemiological studies, for"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1783.51,"endTime":1785.94,"body":"example, studies of populations, it's not enough."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1785.94,"endTime":1790.2,"body":"It's great. I mean, it's one of our big pillars, but it's not sufficient."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1790.2,"endTime":1792.42,"body":"So you want to have a common denominator effect, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1792.42,"endTime":1798.83,"body":"And so if you look at everything, you get, as I used to say, and I keep saying it, 12 to"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1798.83,"endTime":1805.48,"body":"13 hours of fasting, right, 12 to 13 hours are now combining safety, high, high safety."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1805.51,"endTime":1810.97,"body":"It's just hard to find a doctor that will tell you 12 hours of fasting per night is going"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1810.97,"endTime":1814.99,"body":"to be bad for you or a paper or anything in any pillar."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1814.99,"endTime":1817.3,"body":"Right. And that's really first do no harm."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1817.3,"endTime":1819.1,"body":"It's really rule number one."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1819.1,"endTime":1820.75,"body":"And that's pretty easy to do."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1820.78,"endTime":1826.25,"body":"Pretty easy to do. You finish eating at 6pm and you get up at 6am Well, there's your 12"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1826.25,"endTime":1826.57,"body":"hours."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1826.57,"endTime":1829.45,"body":"Yeah, exactly. But people don't do that anymore."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1829.48,"endTime":1836.44,"body":"People in part because this idea still in the back of people's mind that you should eat"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1836.47,"endTime":1837.79,"body":"five, six times a day."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1837.79,"endTime":1842.26,"body":"And so these were bad ideas that were given to the world some years ago."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1842.26,"endTime":1845.23,"body":"But a lot of people still have this in the back of their head."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1845.23,"endTime":1850.9,"body":"And so, you know, now Satchin Panda and others have shown that people go for 15 hours a"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1850.9,"endTime":1854.89,"body":"day on average, right, in America and probably in Europe."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1854.89,"endTime":1856.22,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1856.22,"endTime":1857.5,"body":"that's 15 hours of eating."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1857.65,"endTime":1858.97,"body":"15 hours of eating."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1858.97,"endTime":1860.11,"body":"Yeah, 15 hours of eating."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1860.11,"endTime":1862.72,"body":"So now you shorten it from 15 to 12."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1862.75,"endTime":1864.73,"body":"That's already a big deal, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1864.73,"endTime":1870.13,"body":"So lots of Sachin's studies are showing say going from 15 to 11."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1870.13,"endTime":1875.11,"body":"But you know, some people are probably doing 12 and some people are doing 11, 13 hours of"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1875.11,"endTime":1876.85,"body":"fasting, right? 12 to 13 hours of fast."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1876.85,"endTime":1883.4,"body":"But but I will say in, in that range, I think that's where Sachin and I meet, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1883.42,"endTime":1888.01,"body":"Because you might say 13 or 14, I say 12 to 13."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1888.1,"endTime":1893.82,"body":"And so let's say 13 seems to be a good compromise for those that are like gung ho, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1893.83,"endTime":1895.9,"body":"The ones that are saying, oh, I got to do more."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1895.93,"endTime":1896.32,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1896.32,"endTime":1899.53,"body":"And in fact, he says for some people up to 16."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1899.53,"endTime":1902.61,"body":"So that's the area that 12 to 16 is the area of."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1902.62,"endTime":1908.77,"body":"Yeah, but I will argue, and as I have always argued, don't go to 16 unless it's for a"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1908.77,"endTime":1909.91,"body":"short period. Right."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1910.08,"endTime":1911.5,"body":"And why?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1911.5,"endTime":1916.45,"body":"Well, because gallstone formation, gallbladder operation and most people that do 16"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1916.45,"endTime":1919.0,"body":"hours, they have to skip breakfast and skipping breakfast."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1919.03,"endTime":1920.89,"body":"Now, there's meta analysis on that."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1920.89,"endTime":1922.75,"body":"It's just bad for you, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1922.75,"endTime":1923.77,"body":"It's bad for you."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1923.77,"endTime":1928.66,"body":"And now, in fact, I wrote a little introductory article to three articles that just came"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1928.66,"endTime":1933.34,"body":"out in cell metabolism and other journals, and they're showing if you skip breakfast and"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1933.34,"endTime":1943.15,"body":"you start eating at 12 instead of 8, your energy expenditure is reduced and you're more"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1943.15,"endTime":1944.35,"body":"hungry, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1944.74,"endTime":1947.89,"body":"Hunger goes up and energy expenditure goes down."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1947.89,"endTime":1951.76,"body":"So now you're starting to have clinical explanation, not just epidemiological."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1951.76,"endTime":1955.3,"body":"Now you have two pillars, both of which are saying don't skip breakfast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1955.45,"endTime":1959.23,"body":"And when you say skip breakfast, what is your definition of skipping breakfast?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1959.23,"endTime":1962.73,"body":"Is it not eating within an hour of getting out of bed or what's the timeframe?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1962.74,"endTime":1968.86,"body":"No, it's say most people will have lunch and not breakfast and you may have black coffee"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1968.86,"endTime":1970.0,"body":"for breakfast."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1970.0,"endTime":1974.86,"body":"That's not breakfast. Right. So and some studies have gone into looking at calories, but"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1974.86,"endTime":1976.24,"body":"let's say in general."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1976.73,"endTime":1978.77,"body":"If people say, I don't have breakfast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1979.34,"endTime":1981.17,"body":"It means nothing till lunch time for most people."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1981.44,"endTime":1983.69,"body":"So it means that you had dinner and then you have lunch, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1984.05,"endTime":1989.42,"body":"A lot of people were under the impression that, Oh, well, I'm skipping breakfast, so it's"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1989.42,"endTime":1991.97,"body":"good for me. I eat less and it's healthy for me."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1991.97,"endTime":1993.39,"body":"But that's not the case, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1993.41,"endTime":1999.53,"body":"Well, you could argue and people argue all day long, but when you have a pillar, a"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":1999.53,"endTime":2003.82,"body":"central pillar like epidemiology, keep telling you that people that skip breakfast live"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2003.82,"endTime":2006.91,"body":"shorter, more cardiovascular disease, potentially more cancer."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2007.21,"endTime":2008.47,"body":"Don't mess with it. Right."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2008.5,"endTime":2009.82,"body":"It's not a good start."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2010.18,"endTime":2013.87,"body":"Now, could there be an explanation that people that skip breakfast, usually"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2013.87,"endTime":2015.39,"body":"epidemiologists adjust."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2015.4,"endTime":2017.26,"body":"Right. So they have adjustments for this."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2017.26,"endTime":2022.42,"body":"But let's say even if they didn't catch the right adjustment, still that's not a good"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2022.42,"endTime":2026.38,"body":"start, right? You want things that are associated with a longer lifespan and not a"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2026.38,"endTime":2029.02,"body":"shorter lifespan and less cardiovascular disease and not more."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2029.74,"endTime":2033.79,"body":"So I can see people thinking and applying what you just said to their own lifestyle and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2033.82,"endTime":2035.35,"body":"thinking, well, is this okay for me?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2035.35,"endTime":2036.95,"body":"So I'll tell you what I do."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2036.98,"endTime":2039.41,"body":"Tell me if it kind of fits in with your way of thinking."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2039.41,"endTime":2042.57,"body":"So try to finish eating by 6 p.m."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2042.62,"endTime":2047.0,"body":"thereabouts, which is quite easy to do and not snack during the evening and get up at"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2047.0,"endTime":2048.08,"body":"about 6 a.m."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2048.08,"endTime":2053.18,"body":"and the first thing I do is have coffee with a little splash of oat milk."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2053.18,"endTime":2055.1,"body":"So there's a few calories there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2055.1,"endTime":2059.21,"body":"But then I get out and do my exercise and I go for a long hike for three and a half"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2059.21,"endTime":2061.42,"body":"miles. And I like to do that on an empty stomach."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2061.43,"endTime":2065.96,"body":"So I don't feel good doing that kind of exercise having had a normal breakfast, which for"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2065.96,"endTime":2070.85,"body":"me is is fruits and grains and it's a mostly carbohydrate breakfast."},{"speaker":"But so I do that when I get back, which is 8:00, 9","startTime":2070.85,"endTime":2075.26,"body":"00 in the morning."},{"speaker":"But so I do that when I get back, which is 8:00, 9","startTime":2075.26,"endTime":2080.63,"body":"So there's roughly 14 or 15 hours between my 6 p.m."},{"speaker":"But so I do that when I get back, which is 8:00, 9","startTime":2080.63,"endTime":2083.21,"body":"meal and my substantial breakfast meal."},{"speaker":"But so I do that when I get back, which is 8:00, 9","startTime":2083.21,"endTime":2085.79,"body":"I've had a few calories in my coffee at 6 a.m.."},{"speaker":"But so I do that when I get back, which is 8:00, 9","startTime":2086.0,"endTime":2088.18,"body":"Where does that fall in compliance?"},{"speaker":"But so I do that when I get back, which is 8:00, 9","startTime":2088.19,"endTime":2090.32,"body":"Is that leaving it too long or is it kind of okay?"},{"speaker":"But so I do that when I get back, which is 8:00, 9","startTime":2090.32,"endTime":2092.06,"body":"Because I did have some calories in my coffee."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2092.09,"endTime":2092.73,"body":"Nobody knows, right?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2092.75,"endTime":2093.2,"body":"No one knows."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2093.62,"endTime":2099.95,"body":"Nobody knows. So you're you're now probably okay, because it is breakfast."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2099.95,"endTime":2105.65,"body":"It's just a light breakfast happening, you know, 14 hours after your dinner and you had"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2105.65,"endTime":2107.6,"body":"some calories in between."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2107.63,"endTime":2108.83,"body":"It probably is okay."},{"speaker":"And I will say probably the most of the data is based on people that have, say, 7","startTime":2108.83,"endTime":2116.54,"body":"00 pm"},{"speaker":"And I will say probably the most of the data is based on people that have, say, 7","startTime":2116.57,"endTime":2123.32,"body":"type of dinner or and then no, maybe black coffee and then noon."},{"speaker":"And I will say probably the most of the data is based on people that have, say, 7","startTime":2124.07,"endTime":2125.59,"body":"That's probably."},{"speaker":"And I will say probably the most of the data is based on people that have, say, 7","startTime":2125.6,"endTime":2130.28,"body":"And even in the trials that I just described, they either you ate at eight or you start"},{"speaker":"And I will say probably the most of the data is based on people that have, say, 7","startTime":2130.28,"endTime":2131.38,"body":"eating at 12. Right?"},{"speaker":"And I will say probably the most of the data is based on people that have, say, 7","startTime":2131.6,"endTime":2135.17,"body":"So that was the sort of definition of breakfast keeping."},{"speaker":"And I will say probably the most of the data is based on people that have, say, 7","startTime":2135.17,"endTime":2137.33,"body":"You don't do anything until 12."},{"speaker":"And I will say probably the most of the data is based on people that have, say, 7","startTime":2137.54,"endTime":2143.09,"body":"So in your case, because you have some calories and then you eat 8 or 9, that's probably"},{"speaker":"And I will say probably the most of the data is based on people that have, say, 7","startTime":2143.09,"endTime":2143.51,"body":"okay."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2143.84,"endTime":2147.92,"body":"I find that everyone's individual and I kind of raise my example because everyone's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2147.92,"endTime":2153.32,"body":"individual, different lifestyles, different morning routines, children, school, work,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2153.44,"endTime":2154.61,"body":"whatever people are doing."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2154.61,"endTime":2156.38,"body":"So it's difficult to generalize."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2156.38,"endTime":2161.06,"body":"But but from my perspective, having a slightly later breakfast, so eight nine makes it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2161.06,"endTime":2162.59,"body":"easier to get through most of the day."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2162.59,"endTime":2166.46,"body":"Like as we speak now, mid-afternoon, I've had my 8 a.m."},{"speaker":"breakfast. I had half a banana at about 12","startTime":2166.46,"endTime":2171.5,"body":"00 and that'll be it till my evening meal."},{"speaker":"breakfast. I had half a banana at about 12","startTime":2171.5,"endTime":2173.18,"body":"So it gives me the day."},{"speaker":"breakfast. I had half a banana at about 12","startTime":2173.18,"endTime":2177.08,"body":"And I know this is the kind of practice that you have, I think, of pretty much having a"},{"speaker":"breakfast. I had half a banana at about 12","startTime":2177.08,"endTime":2180.38,"body":"second mini fast during the middle of the day."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2180.5,"endTime":2184.16,"body":"Right. Yeah. So me and lots of patients that we follow the clinics."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2184.7,"endTime":2186.32,"body":"So that seems to work very well now."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2186.32,"endTime":2191.21,"body":"We started a large trial in southern Italy, 500 patients where we're applying that."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2192.14,"endTime":2199.04,"body":"So yeah, so we think that having this I have coffee for lunch five days a week, I don't"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2199.04,"endTime":2206.21,"body":"do a seven days a week. And it's also trying to play with with the understanding of maybe"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2206.21,"endTime":2213.95,"body":"some of these adaptive mechanisms that, you know, you don't want the body to necessarily"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2213.95,"endTime":2217.97,"body":"abandon the lunch component."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2217.97,"endTime":2222.05,"body":"And so that's why and this is hypothetical, we haven't never tested it."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2222.07,"endTime":2228.41,"body":"Now we're going to start testing it, but we to reduce the risk we rather have both."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2228.41,"endTime":2231.47,"body":"Right. So I have your week has lunches and no lunches."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2231.47,"endTime":2233.83,"body":"So your brain is now adjusted to both, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2233.84,"endTime":2239.12,"body":"So, for example, I didn't have lunch today and I don't care if I have lunch or not."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2239.27,"endTime":2243.32,"body":"So I can have it because in the weekend I'm used to have it and I don't have it during"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2243.32,"endTime":2244.37,"body":"the week."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2244.55,"endTime":2249.59,"body":"So I think it's a good way to go rather than than skipping even lunch, because I'm afraid"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2249.59,"endTime":2252.8,"body":"that eventually we're going to find out that people that always skip lunch have the same"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2252.8,"endTime":2254.6,"body":"problem than the breakfast skippers, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2255.23,"endTime":2260.51,"body":"Because ketone bodies actually start going high higher, not high higher."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2260.51,"endTime":2264.23,"body":"Even if you do this in within day fast."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2264.23,"endTime":2266.12,"body":"So I don't like that."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2266.12,"endTime":2271.16,"body":"I don't like to do spikes of ketogenesis and back down."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2271.61,"endTime":2275.84,"body":"I'm afraid that eventually we're going to see problems with people that do this."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2276.09,"endTime":2277.77,"body":"Yo you ketogenesis."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2277.77,"endTime":2284.67,"body":"And and that's why I, I like to avoid any potential problem."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2284.7,"endTime":2288.45,"body":"Now, any problem that we know of any problems that could arise 20 years from now."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2288.45,"endTime":2294.48,"body":"Right. So yeah, so our point, as you know, is getting can we get people to live to 110"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2294.51,"endTime":2299.94,"body":"healthy? And that's just a very complicated lots of thinking that goes into it and a lot"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2300.03,"endTime":2303.36,"body":"of sometimes not getting the best effect that you could."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2303.36,"endTime":2306.15,"body":"You get a little bit less, but much safer, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2306.15,"endTime":2309.84,"body":"So, yeah, I could go 16 hours and I would see a lot more benefits."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2309.84,"endTime":2315.09,"body":"I agree. But do I want to risk it knowing what I know about epidemiology, etcetera?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2315.09,"endTime":2316.11,"body":"No, I don't want to risk it."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2316.11,"endTime":2320.82,"body":"I go 12 to 13 and and that's a good compromise."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2320.82,"endTime":2321.06,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2321.06,"endTime":2326.85,"body":"And final question on diet, you have a mostly pescatarian diet, so a little bit of fish a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2326.85,"endTime":2332.04,"body":"couple of times a week, getting your protein, a relatively low protein diet protein from"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2332.04,"endTime":2334.23,"body":"legumes, beans, peas, that kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2334.23,"endTime":2335.25,"body":"Yeah, Yeah."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2335.25,"endTime":2341.08,"body":"So now as I'm getting older, I go to maybe 3 or 4 times a week fish."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2341.08,"endTime":2346.72,"body":"And that's, I think that the kind of age adjustments, right, that the legumes, it's not"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2346.72,"endTime":2350.68,"body":"just about protein, it's about also amino acid content."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2350.68,"endTime":2352.27,"body":"And I eat lots of legumes."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2352.27,"endTime":2359.26,"body":"And so I need maybe four days a week of four meals a week of fish or seafood, somebody"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2359.26,"endTime":2362.05,"body":"that might have lots of seeds, lots of nuts."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2362.08,"endTime":2367.33,"body":"I mean, it depends on how much, especially the essential amino acids you're getting from"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2367.33,"endTime":2370.12,"body":"the plant based non-legume sources."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2370.15,"endTime":2372.37,"body":"Legumes just tend to have very low levels."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2372.37,"endTime":2380.41,"body":"And that's why legumes are probably number one in the in the best food for longevity, at"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2380.41,"endTime":2384.85,"body":"least based on this new large Norwegian studies."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2385.25,"endTime":2386.68,"body":"They came up number one."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2386.83,"endTime":2391.72,"body":"So the life expectancy increased in people that have high consumption of legumes, but"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2391.72,"endTime":2396.46,"body":"they also have downside, which is because they have so little essential amino acids."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2396.46,"endTime":2400.12,"body":"They're very beneficial for certain things, but not so good for your muscle."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2400.15,"endTime":2401.32,"body":"Maybe your bones."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2401.32,"endTime":2405.94,"body":"Et cetera. Et cetera. Right. So this is why we're we're spending a lot of time and money"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2405.94,"endTime":2408.73,"body":"now researching this balance, Right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2408.76,"endTime":2412.39,"body":"What is the balance at every age, Biological, age now?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2412.39,"endTime":2414.72,"body":"Chronological age. Chronological age is irrelevant."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2414.73,"endTime":2415.87,"body":"Biological age."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2415.87,"endTime":2421.96,"body":"So what's your best diet for your for you, but also your biological age and how you"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2421.96,"endTime":2424.3,"body":"adjust it? And that's what we do at the clinic."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2424.3,"endTime":2425.95,"body":"In these longevity programs."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2426.25,"endTime":2431.8,"body":"We have a team of molecular biologists, physician, you know, nutritionist, etcetera, just"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2431.8,"endTime":2433.03,"body":"adjusting. Right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2433.03,"endTime":2438.16,"body":"Let's look at your muscle function, your muscle mass, your IGF-1, insulin, glucose ketone"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2438.16,"endTime":2440.29,"body":"bodies. Yeah, lots of different things."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2440.29,"endTime":2446.41,"body":"And then we just adjust so that we we get you in the right spot."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2446.41,"endTime":2446.83,"body":"You know."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2446.86,"endTime":2448.48,"body":"You mentioned ketone bodies."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2448.48,"endTime":2452.74,"body":"What about keto diets, which I suppose is the ..."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2452.74,"endTime":2453.07,"body":"don't do it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2453.07,"endTime":2455.23,"body":"...polar opposite of what you say."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2455.23,"endTime":2457.66,"body":"Yeah. Don't do it. So, so keto diet, don't do it."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2458.22,"endTime":2463.23,"body":"I mean it may be okay for some people like I've seen a used like temporarily to get"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2463.23,"endTime":2470.97,"body":"people from one state to another, let's say to improve glucose levels and a-1c."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2471.09,"endTime":2473.76,"body":"Could you give me a 1 to 3 of why not do it?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2474.63,"endTime":2482.37,"body":"One don't do it because studies, meta analysis and or large studies, epidemiological"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2482.37,"endTime":2483.75,"body":"studies show that you live shorter."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2483.75,"endTime":2485.83,"body":"If you have a low carbohydrate diet."},{"speaker":"Two","startTime":2485.83,"endTime":2489.09,"body":"it's very difficult to maintain."},{"speaker":"Two","startTime":2489.09,"endTime":2495.6,"body":"So most people will do it for a while and then and then abandon it because it's just"},{"speaker":"Two","startTime":2495.6,"endTime":2499.98,"body":"tough to eat mostly fats, let's say."},{"speaker":"Two","startTime":2500.16,"endTime":2508.86,"body":"And and three, also, there is a lot of at least some short term problems."},{"speaker":"Two","startTime":2508.86,"endTime":2513.42,"body":"Right. So some clinical trials are showing that there are problems."},{"speaker":"Two","startTime":2513.42,"endTime":2520.26,"body":"I mean, there are there is benefits and problems, both described for ketogenic diets."},{"speaker":"Two","startTime":2520.59,"endTime":2527.31,"body":"So, yeah, when you start seeing problems like this in all at all levels, I think is much"},{"speaker":"Two","startTime":2527.31,"endTime":2529.56,"body":"better to to not do it."},{"speaker":"Two","startTime":2529.83,"endTime":2531.96,"body":"And I always quote one study."},{"speaker":"Two","startTime":2531.96,"endTime":2537.0,"body":"I think it was the Lancet or either JAMA or Lancet is better to have an 80% carbohydrate"},{"speaker":"Two","startTime":2537.0,"endTime":2539.94,"body":"diet for longevity than having a low carb diet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2540.39,"endTime":2540.93,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2540.93,"endTime":2543.84,"body":"So 60% I think 50 to 60 was ideal."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2543.87,"endTime":2549.18,"body":"80% less years taken away than than a low carb diet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2587.7999999999997,"endTime":2590.98,"body":"This is the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2591.0099999999998,"endTime":2594.46,"body":"Our guest is the longevity researcher, Professor Valter Longo."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2594.49,"endTime":2599.56,"body":"So you mentioned the goal is to try to extend our lifespan and certainly extend our"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2599.56,"endTime":2604.72,"body":"health span, the number of years that we enjoy life and we can have full health and enjoy"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2604.72,"endTime":2610.34,"body":"what we're doing. But life span to about 110 you think is is possible."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2610.36,"endTime":2617.11,"body":"I know you've been studying centenarians mostly in Italy to learn, I guess, about their"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2617.11,"endTime":2620.11,"body":"history and the older ways of life."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2620.11,"endTime":2625.84,"body":"And is this correct to try to identify the benefits of some of those lifestyles and meld"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2625.84,"endTime":2630.67,"body":"that with the modern day science and the research that you do in laboratories like this?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2631.15,"endTime":2635.41,"body":"Yes, so the lifespan and healthspan, I will add my word 'youthspan,' right."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2635.5299999999997,"endTime":2640.18,"body":"So I actually I was very surprised years ago when I introduced this word because it"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2640.18,"endTime":2644.38,"body":"didn't exist. And I always thought this is the most important word that we don't have"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2644.41,"endTime":2646.6,"body":"yet. It's like, how long can you stay young?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2647.14,"endTime":2649.52,"body":"Can we make somebody stay young from 40?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2649.5499999999997,"endTime":2651.23,"body":"Can we switch it to 60 or 70?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2651.2599999999998,"endTime":2657.14,"body":"Right. Young in the sense that you can compete in a in a soccer game or like Tom Brady in"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2657.14,"endTime":2657.7999999999997,"body":"a football game."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2657.7999999999997,"endTime":2659.88,"body":"I was going to say how do you define young?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2659.9,"endTime":2664.34,"body":"Well, we had in the paper we described like you have like maximum performance."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2664.34,"endTime":2666.0499999999997,"body":"It doesn't have to be record."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2666.0499999999997,"endTime":2668.36,"body":"Right. But like marathon runners, right."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2668.42,"endTime":2672.14,"body":"They can still run world record levels around 40 years of age."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2672.14,"endTime":2677.15,"body":"Right. So even a lot less than that will still be young."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2677.84,"endTime":2681.68,"body":"But to answer the question about the centenarians, I think the centenarians have lived to"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2681.68,"endTime":2682.85,"body":"100."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2682.85,"endTime":2690.92,"body":"Right. So there are evidence of 100 ability to make it for 100 years, and some of them"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2690.92,"endTime":2693.2599999999998,"body":"are ability to make it for 100 years healthy."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2693.2599999999998,"endTime":2696.89,"body":"And yeah, so then talking to them is really."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2697.5299999999997,"endTime":2699.0499999999997,"body":"Yes. N of one."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2699.0499999999997,"endTime":2700.4,"body":"Each one you talk to."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2700.4,"endTime":2706.85,"body":"But then you talk to 200 and you just had 200 examples of what did it take to get you"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2706.85,"endTime":2709.72,"body":"there. Right. And some of them get to 110."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2709.73,"endTime":2716.72,"body":"So yeah, so then I think you learn a lot about, for example, one of the things, not"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2716.72,"endTime":2722.67,"body":"surprisingly, that we saw was that a lot of them had a very poor diet for the first 70 to"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2722.67,"endTime":2727.43,"body":"80 years of life, and then they start moving in a nursing home or they're moving with"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2727.43,"endTime":2730.2799999999997,"body":"their sons and daughters and they start eating a lot more."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2730.2799999999997,"endTime":2734.96,"body":"And that's exactly what the science would have predicted would be ideal for you."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2734.96,"endTime":2737.17,"body":"So you're restricted, but you don't."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2737.18,"endTime":2741.32,"body":"You're no longer restrict the heavily restricted when you're 75, 80, 90."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2741.32,"endTime":2746.87,"body":"And the epidemiological data and our own work shows that if you're reporting a very low"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2746.87,"endTime":2749.6,"body":"protein diet when you're 90, you're not doing so well."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2750.02,"endTime":2756.2,"body":"Right? So the person reporting a moderate protein intake is doing much better than those"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2756.2,"endTime":2757.64,"body":"reporting a low protein intake."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2758.39,"endTime":2766.04,"body":"So so yeah, I think that the centenarians are very important pillar and you just have to"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2766.04,"endTime":2767.69,"body":"be realistic."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2767.69,"endTime":2773.45,"body":"And so for example, sometimes we realize that there are genetically predisposed, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2773.45,"endTime":2775.22,"body":"So it's not just a lifestyle."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2775.22,"endTime":2777.65,"body":"It's this is like Sardinia, Calabria."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2777.65,"endTime":2783.92,"body":"It's very clear. These families that were born with, I always say to be Michael Phelps,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2783.95,"endTime":2789.65,"body":"you yes, you have to train and and eat well, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2789.65,"endTime":2795.86,"body":"Et cetera. But you also have to be born with the genetic predisposition that the height,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2795.86,"endTime":2797.06,"body":"the arm length."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2797.15,"endTime":2806.21,"body":"Yes. So I think they are starting out already as super, super longevity, genetic makeup"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2806.21,"endTime":2814.14,"body":"and then adding the lifestyle, the labor and the nutrition and all of that."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2814.14,"endTime":2816.47,"body":"And that's how they make it to this world record."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2816.62,"endTime":2820.1,"body":"Do you enjoy, you must enjoy speaking to centenarians."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2820.1,"endTime":2825.62,"body":"I've spoken to a couple at least for this podcast, and I have the same feeling when I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2825.62,"endTime":2827.63,"body":"come away from the conversation every time."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2827.63,"endTime":2832.82,"body":"It's it nurtures my enthusiasm for doing this kind of work."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2832.94,"endTime":2834.29,"body":"Do you feel the same?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2835.49,"endTime":2841.04,"body":"Yeah, I think that of course we go to the centenarian for scientific and technical reasons"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2841.04,"endTime":2847.43,"body":"and every time we walk away, we walk away with a smile because of a story, because of"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2847.61,"endTime":2853.79,"body":"something that we experienced the war and just really remarkable."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2853.79,"endTime":2857.27,"body":"And some of these words just stay in my head, you know?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2857.84,"endTime":2862.1,"body":"And so, for example, the lady I always talk about the lady and maybe I already did it"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2862.1,"endTime":2869.7799999999997,"body":"with you, but in southern Italy, where we asked her, So when you were, you know, 40, 50,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2869.7799999999997,"endTime":2873.86,"body":"60, how often did you eat red meat?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2873.86,"endTime":2877.46,"body":"And she turned to her niece and she didn't understand because she was from Calabria,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2877.46,"endTime":2880.13,"body":"Italy. And then she realized what we were asking."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2880.13,"endTime":2885.86,"body":"And she smiled and said, Yeah, I had red meat one time because we crashed our wedding."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2885.86,"endTime":2887.21,"body":"And so we."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2887.42,"endTime":2892.4,"body":"We are so poor that that's the only time in like 30 years that she had red meat."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2892.4,"endTime":2898.1,"body":"Right? So so here we are talking about thinking, asking epidemiological questions like"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2898.1,"endTime":2900.47,"body":"how many, how frequently do you have red meat?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2900.47,"endTime":2903.11,"body":"And the lady answering, never."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2904.88,"endTime":2908.06,"body":"Rarely. So so this is very interesting."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2908.06,"endTime":2912.86,"body":"And of course, telling about how poor they were and what conditions they lived in for for"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2912.86,"endTime":2913.82,"body":"a long, long time."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2913.82,"endTime":2919.31,"body":"When you mentioned I talked about healthspan and lifespan and you say youth span, youth"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2919.31,"endTime":2919.61,"body":"span."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2919.61,"endTime":2921.15,"body":"And you've anthology, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2921.2,"endTime":2925.58,"body":"You've ontology. So so I think the neither the word the study."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2925.58,"endTime":2929.21,"body":"So we're in the School of Gerontology, the most famous school of gerontology in the"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2929.21,"endTime":2931.49,"body":"world, and one of the few schools of gerontology in the world."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2931.64,"endTime":2934.88,"body":"And so the study of aging, gerontology, the study of aging."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2934.88,"endTime":2938.54,"body":"But I'm always very surprised that the study of youth was not there."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2938.54,"endTime":2943.7,"body":"So I always said I'm much more interested in learning how to stay young than why I get"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2943.7,"endTime":2945.68,"body":"old, right? So there's two different things."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2945.68,"endTime":2949.89,"body":"So you've just used in the same sentence there, young and old."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2949.89,"endTime":2953.79,"body":"And I've been having this debate recently about the use of the word old."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2953.79,"endTime":2957.45,"body":"It's almost always used in a negative sense."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2957.45,"endTime":2965.4,"body":"Society looks at old as being decrepit, as on the decline without any of the positive"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2965.4,"endTime":2966.9,"body":"aspects of being old."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2966.9,"endTime":2969.36,"body":"And you ask a child what their age is."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2969.36,"endTime":2970.77,"body":"They don't say, I'm ten years young."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2970.77,"endTime":2972.36,"body":"They say I'm ten years old."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2972.39,"endTime":2976.62,"body":"So my point is we're all old to a certain degree."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2976.62,"endTime":2984.33,"body":"And I see getting old, whether it's 110 or 99 as a privilege and something that people in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2984.33,"endTime":2989.7599999999998,"body":"the longevity space should be perhaps cheering a little bit more than society does."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2992.43,"endTime":2996.87,"body":"Yes. I don't have a problem with old."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":2997.35,"endTime":3004.4,"body":"I think that so yeah my mine is a view as a technical view on what's more interesting,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3004.41,"endTime":3008.75,"body":"the process of what keeps you young or what makes you old."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3008.75,"endTime":3018.02,"body":"But yeah, I think that I always say violins age and they get better and wine ages and it"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3018.02,"endTime":3023.72,"body":"gets better. So an old wine is oftentimes better than, than a young one."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3023.72,"endTime":3028.46,"body":"And yeah, so there is nothing wrong with the word old, especially like you say, it's"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3028.46,"endTime":3033.14,"body":"already used when you're three and and so yeah."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3033.14,"endTime":3039.38,"body":"So then the stigma of the word or associated with the word should go away."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3039.38,"endTime":3044.54,"body":"And I bet a lot of those centenarians that you speak to, by and large, they are happy"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3044.54,"endTime":3046.34,"body":"people. They're not depressed."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3046.34,"endTime":3051.71,"body":"The fact that they are 100 plus years old, generally, everything is great in that world."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3052.97,"endTime":3056.54,"body":"Uh, that's when you only talk to 2 or 3, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3056.54,"endTime":3063.11,"body":"When you talk to 2 or 300, a lot of them are like Emma Morano, the oldest person in the"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3063.11,"endTime":3066.56,"body":"world. When I was followed there in the last five years of her life."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3066.59,"endTime":3069.32,"body":"Was that the famous lady for eating eggs."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3069.35,"endTime":3072.98,"body":"Eggs and steak, and raw meat every day."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3073.31,"endTime":3077.2999999999997,"body":"And she's complaining all the time."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3077.2999999999997,"endTime":3081.86,"body":"Yeah. So very isolated and only dealt with a few people."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3081.86,"endTime":3084.06,"body":"Yeah. So you always get bored, you know."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3084.14,"endTime":3087.56,"body":"And this is also coming out of the demography studies."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3087.56,"endTime":3088.73,"body":"The demographers."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3088.73,"endTime":3092.84,"body":"Demographers will say, you get the two personality, you get the one you just described,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3093.5,"endTime":3094.82,"body":"nothing can kill them."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3094.82,"endTime":3100.49,"body":"And then you get the ones that are like tough, tough warriors like Emma Morano."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3100.49,"endTime":3104.2999999999997,"body":"And they'll they'll just they don't care you they'll just keep on going."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3104.39,"endTime":3110.0299999999997,"body":"And and they're not necessarily pleasant to be around and they they don't have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3110.0299999999997,"endTime":3114.65,"body":"friends but they just keep on going and yeah so it's interesting right that these two"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3114.65,"endTime":3119.44,"body":"person so I always say yes of course if you can have a lot of social interactions and"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3119.45,"endTime":3125.54,"body":"happy life have that but don't feel like, you know, if you don't have it, you're doomed"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3125.54,"endTime":3128.24,"body":"and you're going to die at 72."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3128.39,"endTime":3130.54,"body":"So you're fine."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3130.54,"endTime":3135.16,"body":"You can you can do well and you can keep on going and live live a long life."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3135.19,"endTime":3135.37,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3135.4,"endTime":3138.43,"body":"So we had our first conversation ten years ago."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3138.43,"endTime":3145.39,"body":"If we meet again in this laboratory or somewhere else in ten years time, 2033, I will be"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3145.39,"endTime":3146.7999999999997,"body":"71 years old."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3146.83,"endTime":3149.67,"body":"You I think I'm correct in saying we'll be 65."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3149.67,"endTime":3155.7999999999997,"body":"Yeah. What do you think we'll be talking about as it relates to this longevity space?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3155.7999999999997,"endTime":3164.14,"body":"I hope we'll be talking about the nutrition and fasting mimicking diets."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3164.14,"endTime":3168.22,"body":"Et cetera. Being in the teams, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3168.82,"endTime":3176.32,"body":"Having changed the way we keep people healthy and long lived and having, I just wrote an"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3176.32,"endTime":3183.07,"body":"article for the Milken Institute and and I was quoting, I think someone, Dana Goldman"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3183.07,"endTime":3191.14,"body":"here from USC and others and saying that the savings in the next 50 years, I think it was"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3191.74,"endTime":3193.21,"body":"$7 trillion."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3193.6,"endTime":3197.74,"body":"And that's probably way underestimated, way underestimated."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3198.31,"endTime":3203.7999999999997,"body":"If we think that the impact of really having the teams and the nutrition and the"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3203.7999999999997,"endTime":3210.4,"body":"lifestyle and the exercise and integrative medicine and trying to keep people away from"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3210.4,"endTime":3218.32,"body":"the expensive interventions, I think that, you know, that's what I hope we'll be looking"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3218.32,"endTime":3224.56,"body":"at, right? So we'll look around and say, you remember ten years ago people went to the"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3224.56,"endTime":3228.25,"body":"doctor once a year to get drugs and now look around."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3228.25,"endTime":3234.22,"body":"There's teams that practice a very different preventive juventology."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3234.5499999999997,"endTime":3237.46,"body":"Right. Or preventive gerontology."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3237.46,"endTime":3241.75,"body":"Right. And it's no longer just the doctor is the doctor, the molecular biologist, the"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3241.75,"endTime":3246.7,"body":"nutritionist, the psychologist, you know, the kinesiologists working in a team to say,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3246.7,"endTime":3253.84,"body":"okay. And the artificial intelligence people working at and the technologies, the"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3253.84,"endTime":3259.63,"body":"apparatus, that that is going to be necessary, that the portable technology that's going"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3259.63,"endTime":3263.41,"body":"to be necessary to not having to go to the hospital, to the doctor."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3263.41,"endTime":3266.17,"body":"So we want to just keep people away from hospitals."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3266.17,"endTime":3268.87,"body":"Right. That's going to be our goal."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3268.87,"endTime":3272.23,"body":"And yeah, I sincerely it's doable now."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3272.74,"endTime":3274.42,"body":"It's doable now. We already have the data."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3274.63,"endTime":3282.52,"body":"It is not some idea that that it's just a matter of can we influence enough the system to"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3282.52,"endTime":3285.64,"body":"allow this because a lot of people don't want to see this happening."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3285.64,"endTime":3291.31,"body":"Right? There's a lot of money going around into into the system that sells bad food, bad"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3291.31,"endTime":3292.5099999999998,"body":"drugs. Et cetera."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3292.5099999999998,"endTime":3294.46,"body":"Et cetera. I mean, there are a lot of good drugs, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3294.61,"endTime":3297.16,"body":"I'm not attacking the pharmaceutical companies."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3297.16,"endTime":3303.31,"body":"I'm saying we just need to take drugs when drugs are needed and not take drugs just"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3303.31,"endTime":3305.02,"body":"because. Oh, yeah, you're diabetic."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3305.02,"endTime":3306.7599999999998,"body":"Well, let me load you up with drugs."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3307.61,"endTime":3309.77,"body":"So society has to be on board with this."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3309.7999999999997,"endTime":3311.54,"body":"It can't be just the scientists."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3311.57,"endTime":3313.73,"body":"Journalists, number one, most important."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3313.91,"endTime":3315.7999999999997,"body":"Journalists number on?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3315.7999999999997,"endTime":3320.75,"body":"Journalist by far. Number one, the journalists have to make the decision that from now on,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3320.99,"endTime":3324.23,"body":"we're just going to talk about this revolution."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3324.23,"endTime":3325.2799999999997,"body":"Right? Well, that's what I'm trying to do Valter."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3326.12,"endTime":3327.29,"body":"Let's talk about the revolution."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3327.29,"endTime":3329.36,"body":"Yeah, the doctor is great."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3329.36,"endTime":3330.89,"body":"The doctor should be part of the team."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3330.89,"endTime":3332.93,"body":"The doctor should also make the final decision."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3332.93,"endTime":3341.39,"body":"But the team assembles the complex intervention and applies it in as easy as possible of"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3341.39,"endTime":3342.86,"body":"a manner to the patient."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3342.89,"endTime":3344.63,"body":"Less low invasiveness."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3344.63,"endTime":3349.7,"body":"Maybe you have a continuous glucose monitor or a ring or a blood pressure bracelet,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3349.73,"endTime":3353.69,"body":"whatever it is, so don't worry about it and don't need to come in."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3353.69,"endTime":3357.62,"body":"We're following you from the distance and maybe once every six months you come in and"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3357.62,"endTime":3360.7999999999997,"body":"this is what we already do at the clinic and the clinics."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3360.7999999999997,"endTime":3365.15,"body":"Yeah. So I think that's the journalists are going to have to sort of push the system,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3365.15,"endTime":3368.82,"body":"challenge the status quo and push the systems."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3368.96,"endTime":3369.98,"body":"What's going on?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3369.98,"endTime":3372.08,"body":"Why can we save trillions of dollars?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3372.08,"endTime":3374.9,"body":"And this is nobody's going to argue with that."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3374.9,"endTime":3382.67,"body":"And yet and this is why I say in my article in the 60s, over 10% of the US population,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3382.7,"endTime":3390.59,"body":"the prevalence of overweight of obesity when over 10% in the 60s in the 70 when over 20%"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3390.59,"endTime":3394.46,"body":"in the 80s, when over 30% in the 90s went over 40%."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3394.46,"endTime":3396.17,"body":"And nobody did anything about it."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3396.17,"endTime":3397.22,"body":"This is crazy right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3397.22,"endTime":3404.93,"body":"And I contrast it with COVID and I say, you know with COVID came around but everybody"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3404.93,"endTime":3409.52,"body":"that you can every journalist in the planet all they talked about was COVID is great."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3409.52,"endTime":3411.29,"body":"And it should even be more than that, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3411.29,"endTime":3417.32,"body":"Fine. Preventive, preventing viral and microbial diseases is extremely important."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3417.32,"endTime":3427.15,"body":"But in 2017 alone, 11 million people die of dietary preventable causes of death,"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3427.52,"endTime":3429.38,"body":"preventable by dietary changes."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3429.38,"endTime":3431.06,"body":"And nobody talks about this, right?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3431.12,"endTime":3436.73,"body":"So more podcast conversations like this and perhaps I through your eyes, should be talking"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3436.73,"endTime":3443.12,"body":"to decision makers, to politicians, people who can make things happen."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3443.12,"endTime":3448.22,"body":"Challenge them like you challenged the COVID when when the virus was spreading, the"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3448.22,"endTime":3450.92,"body":"journalists went crazy and said, Hey, what's going on?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3450.95,"endTime":3452.45,"body":"Are we going to deal with this? People are dying."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3452.45,"endTime":3454.94,"body":"Right? And it's just all over the news, all over the place."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3454.94,"endTime":3460.7599999999998,"body":"When 11 million people in one year die of bad food and too much food."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3460.91,"endTime":3462.2999999999997,"body":"Okay, that's okay."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3462.2999999999997,"endTime":3463.52,"body":"You know, that's part of life."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3463.52,"endTime":3464.99,"body":"That's not right. That's not part of life."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3464.99,"endTime":3466.1,"body":"This is not where we come from."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3466.1,"endTime":3469.4,"body":"We don't come from bad food and too much food we come from."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3469.4,"endTime":3470.93,"body":"And we don't come from eating all the time."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3470.93,"endTime":3473.24,"body":"We come from a history of eating."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3473.24,"endTime":3475.56,"body":"And then, you know, sometimes you fast, right?"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3475.61,"endTime":3480.68,"body":"And sometimes you have poor food and sometimes you have rich food, meaning sometimes you"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3480.68,"endTime":3486.38,"body":"might have had meat, but some lots of the other times you have whatever you can grab from"},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3486.38,"endTime":3486.92,"body":"your garden."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3487.22,"endTime":3489.38,"body":"So, yeah, a lot of work still to be done."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3489.59,"endTime":3490.97,"body":"Valter, it's always a pleasure."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3491.06,"endTime":3491.46,"body":"My pleasure."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3491.48,"endTime":3492.5,"body":"We'll continue talking."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3492.5299999999997,"endTime":3493.31,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Valter Longo","startTime":3493.82,"endTime":3494.17,"body":"You're welcome."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3499.14,"endTime":3501.99,"body":"The LLAMA podcast is a Healthspan Media production."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3501.99,"endTime":3504.18,"body":"We'll be back soon with another episode."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3504.18,"endTime":3507.87,"body":"In the meantime. I wish you the very best of health and thanks for listening."}]}