{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":0.47,"endTime":6.71,"body":"This almost sounds like the opening lines of a science fiction movie."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":6.71,"endTime":10.34,"body":"And I think the issue isn't so much that these particular nematodes came up."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":10.34,"endTime":15.86,"body":"The broader issue is that there's an awful lot of stuff frozen in permafrost."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":16.85,"endTime":20.72,"body":"Hello again. Welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":20.72,"endTime":22.61,"body":"I'm Peter Bowes in Los Angeles."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":22.64,"endTime":25.98,"body":"Peter Allison is in Reading in the south of England."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":26.0,"endTime":28.76,"body":"We went to school together in the 1970s."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":28.76,"endTime":35.93,"body":"We've led different lives, but we have a common goal now in our 60s of pursuing as long a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":35.93,"endTime":37.97,"body":"healthspan as possible."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":37.97,"endTime":43.56,"body":"In this podcast, we review the latest science that could help us in that mission."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":43.56,"endTime":48.98,"body":"Today topics as varied as the best exercises to lower blood pressure."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":49.01,"endTime":51.62,"body":"The power of walking to live longer."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":51.83,"endTime":59.94,"body":"MRI scans for prostate cancer and those little worms that survived 46,000 years in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":59.94,"endTime":62.58,"body":"permafrost. Could we."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":62.58,"endTime":64.14,"body":"Maybe? One year?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":64.17,"endTime":65.64,"body":"Peter, you're a geologist."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":65.64,"endTime":68.37,"body":"We'll get to that topic in a second."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":68.4,"endTime":69.6,"body":"Good to talk to you again."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":69.63,"endTime":73.2,"body":"You've been doing some diving, haven't you, since we last spoke."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":73.2,"endTime":73.95,"body":"How did it go?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":73.98,"endTime":75.9,"body":"It went really well."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":76.14,"endTime":81.87,"body":"We dived around the Isle of Man, and then I, my wife and I had a trip to the north west"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":81.87,"endTime":86.34,"body":"of Scotland. And then I went back for a second, helping on my own with another scuba"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":86.34,"endTime":91.86,"body":"buddy. And we went and dived some very isolated sites with cold."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":91.86,"endTime":98.79,"body":"Well, not very cold, but blue water, good visibility teeming with life, fast currents,"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":99.0,"endTime":100.74,"body":"just great diving, great British diving."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":100.74,"endTime":102.0,"body":"Sounds excellent."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":102.0,"endTime":106.51,"body":"And how is how is the body holding up to all of this exercise?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":106.53,"endTime":109.74,"body":"So there's some lots` of of interesting exercise."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":109.74,"endTime":114.75,"body":"So when we're on the boat, we were on a converted trawler and we're living aboard the"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":114.75,"endTime":118.41,"body":"boat. So if you're moving around, this is a converted trawler, it's moving through swells"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":118.41,"endTime":122.3,"body":"and there's this constant and I don't know this, but I just feel that there is this"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":122.3,"endTime":127.34,"body":"constant core exercise that you get because as the boat's pitching, your body is"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":127.34,"endTime":131.0,"body":"stiffening and moving in different directions to try and counteract the movement because"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":131.0,"endTime":132.51,"body":"the movement is constant."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":132.53,"endTime":136.01,"body":"So I suspect that that's probably a very good core exercise."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":136.01,"endTime":140.59,"body":"And then it's moving my dive kit around, which is pretty heavy."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":140.6,"endTime":144.53,"body":"So when I stand up with my dive kit, I've probably got."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":145.27,"endTime":151.49,"body":"But I know 60 kilos of stuff that I've got to walk around about, so I'm okay with that."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":151.49,"endTime":156.95,"body":"And but I mentioned to you an email that I was hoping to get back to going to the gym,"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":156.95,"endTime":161.39,"body":"and I don't know if you can identify this or suspect identify with this."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":161.39,"endTime":162.5,"body":"I suspect you can."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":162.53,"endTime":165.74,"body":"You know, you sitting there thinking, I've got to get back to the gym."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":165.74,"endTime":168.17,"body":"I've got to start doing that exercise."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":168.86,"endTime":174.08,"body":"Oh, but I should also be doing something else, like tidying up or doing something else."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":174.08,"endTime":179.84,"body":"Well, anyway, I was going to go to the gym today and because I live in Reading and it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":179.84,"endTime":186.44,"body":"the Reading Musical Festival this weekend, my gym is closed because it's part it's very,"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":186.44,"endTime":189.41,"body":"very close to the venue for the musical thing."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":189.41,"endTime":192.74,"body":"So in part I was sitting there thinking, Oh."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":193.59,"endTime":196.8,"body":"You know, it's a pity. But there's also this little part of me think, Oh, that's a cast"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":196.8,"endTime":198.06,"body":"iron excuse."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":198.06,"endTime":200.34,"body":"That thought just whizzed through my mind."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":200.37,"endTime":202.35,"body":"Peter Yes"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":202.35,"endTime":207.45,"body":"Yes! And it was a cast iron excuse because the gym was closed, but I thought so I am"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":207.45,"endTime":213.12,"body":"putting myself as a hostage now to say I must get back into the schedule by the next time"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":213.12,"endTime":213.86,"body":"we speak."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":213.87,"endTime":215.73,"body":"Well, maybe. Peter, here's some inspiration."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":215.73,"endTime":219.04,"body":"Let's talk about the first paper we're going to look at today."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":219.06,"endTime":225.97,"body":"Interesting headline That wall squats and planks are the best at lowering blood pressure."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":225.99,"endTime":231.09,"body":"This is a paper published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, and it reveals that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":231.09,"endTime":233.1,"body":"in the gym, indeed, we don't need to be in the gym."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":233.1,"endTime":238.8,"body":"You can do these kinds of exercises anywhere, but they are supposedly the best and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":238.8,"endTime":241.43,"body":"they're quite simple exercises to do."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":241.44,"endTime":245.12,"body":"This is a study involving 16,000 people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":245.13,"endTime":250.62,"body":"They found that all exercise lowers high blood pressure, but wall squats and the plank"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":250.65,"endTime":257.32,"body":"led to larger falls than aerobic exercise, in large part because isometric exercises"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":257.32,"endTime":262.63,"body":"place a very different stress on the body to aerobic exercise."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":262.63,"endTime":264.61,"body":"I think it's interesting."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":264.61,"endTime":267.04,"body":"I mean, so they talk in terms of doing a plank."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":267.04,"endTime":271.52,"body":"It's a two minute plank and the wall exercise is two minutes."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":271.52,"endTime":273.07,"body":"So two minute planks."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":273.07,"endTime":276.12,"body":"I think most people could do a one minute plank."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":276.13,"endTime":279.37,"body":"Two minute plank probably requires a bit of practice."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":279.37,"endTime":279.73,"body":"It's quite challenging."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":279.73,"endTime":282.94,"body":"It's not an exercise I do very often."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":282.94,"endTime":285.32,"body":"I can do press ups, a limited number of press ups."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":285.32,"endTime":288.1,"body":"So anyway, so it's two minutes."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":288.1,"endTime":291.85,"body":"My take home from this is it's great."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":291.85,"endTime":297.37,"body":"It shows that you can get you don't have to do an awful lot of exercise to get positive"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":297.4,"endTime":299.2,"body":"benefits. So that's great."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":299.35,"endTime":304.63,"body":"It also shows that the differences between some of these different exercises in terms of"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":304.63,"endTime":308.83,"body":"the blood pressure variation, I mean, they're all good, but one of them is is slightly"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":308.83,"endTime":313.36,"body":"better than the others because the benefits that you get are the good benefits, but"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":313.36,"endTime":315.16,"body":"they're not massive benefits."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":315.16,"endTime":319.0,"body":"They're not reducing somebody's blood pressure from a you know, from very, very high"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":319.0,"endTime":321.61,"body":"levels down to down to normal healthy levels."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":321.61,"endTime":328.36,"body":"They are one feature that's beneficial amongst a whole suite of things that you have to"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":328.36,"endTime":331.36,"body":"be able to do to try and manage your health as you get older."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":331.45,"endTime":332.74,"body":"I think that's what I took from it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":332.74,"endTime":335.38,"body":"I agree with you and I think it's interesting."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":335.38,"endTime":340.96,"body":"I do do planks quite frequently, and the reason I like them is that they are quite"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":340.96,"endTime":343.75,"body":"challenging, as you say, in two minutes is is pushing it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":343.75,"endTime":345.4,"body":"And I would encourage anyone."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":345.4,"endTime":349.66,"body":"Well, the first thing I would say is before you start any exercise that's different to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":349.69,"endTime":353.74,"body":"what you're doing already, you need to speak to your doctor just to make sure that it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":353.74,"endTime":355.69,"body":"good for you. That's always the best advice."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":355.69,"endTime":360.55,"body":"Just don't leap into something that you've heard about on a podcast, but if you are doing"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":360.55,"endTime":365.07,"body":"planks, start slowly. Start 15 seconds 30s move up to a minute."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":365.08,"endTime":366.25,"body":"But I find them."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":366.25,"endTime":369.94,"body":"I like them because they're actually once you get into the rhythm, they're quite easy to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":369.94,"endTime":372.97,"body":"do. You just flop down on the ground, on your arms."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":373.09,"endTime":374.98,"body":"You just stay there and the benefit."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":374.98,"endTime":379.0,"body":"Oh, well, clearly the benefit from this study is quite significant."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":379.0,"endTime":384.46,"body":"But I like to intermingle what I see as the easier exercises to do."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":384.46,"endTime":389.92,"body":"And I don't mean easy in terms of exertion because you got to be good to do this, but"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":389.92,"endTime":395.5,"body":"intersperse them with the push ups, with the squats, some of the more challenging"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":395.5,"endTime":400.0,"body":"exercises that sometimes I think I just want to get this over with with a plank."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":400.03,"endTime":402.4,"body":"there's a point you get to that you quite enjoy it."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":402.61,"endTime":405.22,"body":"I've never got to that point with a plank yet."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":405.7,"endTime":409.72,"body":"I should. I need to try."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":411.01,"endTime":415.54,"body":"So I've been going to the gym for a bit and I've improved my upper body strength quite"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":415.54,"endTime":420.1,"body":"considerably. I think some of my core strength I really need to improve."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":420.1,"endTime":425.23,"body":"And I think for in terms of the weight of some of the stuff I've put on to go diving, I"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":425.23,"endTime":427.27,"body":"think that's probably pretty important."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":427.27,"endTime":431.98,"body":"Apart from anything else. It's just to prevent sort of the sort of trivial injuries where"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":431.98,"endTime":435.82,"body":"you put a foot wrong and all of a sudden you pull a muscle and you limping about."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":435.85,"endTime":438.46,"body":"It's to try and protect me against that sort of thing, really."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":438.46,"endTime":442.63,"body":"So I really think so this resonated with me because I just thought I do really need to"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":442.63,"endTime":444.49,"body":"improve my core strength."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":444.49,"endTime":448.06,"body":"And I think this speaks to some of these exercises."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":448.06,"endTime":449.08,"body":"Speak to that as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":449.08,"endTime":450.21,"body":"So I thought that was good."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":450.22,"endTime":454.36,"body":"We're both in agreement that we got to try and do a sort of a diverse, a diverse series"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":454.36,"endTime":457.12,"body":"of exercises to try and do as much as possible."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":457.12,"endTime":462.28,"body":"Yeah. And in a similar vein, another study, the European Journal of Preventive Cardiology,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":462.31,"endTime":466.78,"body":"suggests and this was a surprise to me, maybe it shouldn't come as a surprise because I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":466.78,"endTime":472.6,"body":"think the when people talk about walking, the number of 10,000 steps a day is often"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":472.6,"endTime":475.72,"body":"quoted. That is, quite frankly, just an arbitrary number."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":475.72,"endTime":483.85,"body":"But this study suggests that fewer than 5000 steps can begin to show positive results."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":483.88,"endTime":491.2,"body":"Walking at least, he's a very specific number 3867 steps a day started to reduce the risk"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":491.2,"endTime":492.94,"body":"of dying from any cause."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":493.13,"endTime":496.1,"body":"2337 steps a day."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":496.1,"endTime":500.12,"body":"Not that we ever count that precisely when we're walking, but that number of steps"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":500.12,"endTime":505.13,"body":"reduced the risk of dying from diseases of the heart and blood vessels."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":505.13,"endTime":510.44,"body":"And again, I think it's just positive to report this kind of study, just to show that the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":510.44,"endTime":512.45,"body":"power of walking. I know you do a lot of walking."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":512.45,"endTime":513.95,"body":"I do tremendous amount of walking."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":513.95,"endTime":516.94,"body":"And we'd probably put it as number one of all of the things that I do."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":516.95,"endTime":520.52,"body":"Yeah, well, I'm just looking I've just pulled up this graphic on the screen, which is"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":520.52,"endTime":526.75,"body":"associated with the paper, and it's essentially going, you've got four exercise for four"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":526.76,"endTime":532.19,"body":"numbers of steps with a straight line in between in between them looking at the reduction"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":532.19,"endTime":538.82,"body":"in mortality going from 3867, right up to 11,529."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":538.82,"endTime":543.53,"body":"With on those four points, there's no sign of a plateau on the data."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":543.53,"endTime":549.29,"body":"It's just the reduction in mortality is just going as a straight line between those"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":549.29,"endTime":553.01,"body":"points, which implies if you do a little bit more, even even better."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":553.11,"endTime":559.11,"body":"And I think I think one of the things this really speaks to me is."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":560.05,"endTime":565.3,"body":"Well, it's walking is just a great exercise, isn't it, really?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":565.3,"endTime":567.22,"body":"And it's it's a natural exercise."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":567.22,"endTime":570.28,"body":"It's the it's what we do."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":570.28,"endTime":572.35,"body":"It's what we've been doing as a species."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":572.35,"endTime":574.81,"body":"It's what we've been doing for tens of thousands of years."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":574.81,"endTime":577.6,"body":"So we, we are we well capable of that."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":577.6,"endTime":579.61,"body":"And so I like that."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":579.61,"endTime":585.1,"body":"I mean, it reminds me a little bit about some of the things that my father used to do,"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":585.1,"endTime":589.45,"body":"and he used to describe his father and grandfather when they were going to work."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":589.48,"endTime":592.9,"body":"If they're going to work, their workplace was four miles away or five miles away."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":592.9,"endTime":594.52,"body":"They'd just get up and walk there."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":594.52,"endTime":595.84,"body":"And that's now."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":595.84,"endTime":598.03,"body":"How often do things change?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":598.03,"endTime":599.2,"body":"Yeah, I'm with you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":599.2,"endTime":601.03,"body":"I mean, I walk to the gym."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":601.03,"endTime":602.11,"body":"I've got to drive to my gym."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":602.11,"endTime":605.08,"body":"It's several miles away, but I park half a mile away."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":605.08,"endTime":609.28,"body":"And so there's a decent amount of steps before I even get there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":609.28,"endTime":611.98,"body":"It's a nice warm up and then you've got to walk all the way back again."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":611.98,"endTime":615.64,"body":"I think if you can just work into your lifestyle, your daily lifestyle, these little"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":615.64,"endTime":620.42,"body":"extra walks and one little bit of the statistics, it's really struck me the risk of dying"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":620.42,"endTime":624.95,"body":"from any cause or from cardiovascular disease decreases significantly."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":624.95,"endTime":629.12,"body":"With every 500 to 1000 extra steps you walk."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":629.12,"endTime":632.12,"body":"That's not many steps to make a significant difference."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":632.12,"endTime":639.38,"body":"Yeah, well, we've just become so as a society, it's just so easy not to walk, right?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":639.38,"endTime":645.02,"body":"So some years back I was in, I was in the States, I was in upstate, I was in Rochester in"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":645.02,"endTime":647.99,"body":"upstate New York, and I was visiting a colleague."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":647.99,"endTime":653.33,"body":"Rather than stay at his house, he'd arranged for me to stay at one of his friend's house,"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":653.33,"endTime":654.71,"body":"and I was introduced to this friend."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":654.71,"endTime":659.18,"body":"When I'm jet lagged and I'm tired, he tells me, you know, mi casa su casa, you know, make"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":659.18,"endTime":661.34,"body":"yourself at home. Very, very nice gentleman, George."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":661.7,"endTime":663.35,"body":"He was introduced to me while I was jet lagged."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":663.35,"endTime":665.78,"body":"I went to bed. He said, Right, I'll be gone at work."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":665.78,"endTime":667.94,"body":"I'll be gone to work. You're the only one in the house."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":667.94,"endTime":668.96,"body":"Here's the key."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":668.99,"endTime":670.04,"body":"Anyway, I got up."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":670.19,"endTime":675.26,"body":"There was one of these aluminum mobile home breakfast places, you know, one of these"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":675.26,"endTime":677.54,"body":"great American icons that wasn't too far away."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":677.54,"endTime":679.01,"body":"And I thought I could remember the walk there."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":679.01,"endTime":685.96,"body":"So I walked there, had a great big, massively calorific breakfast, walked back, and as I"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":685.99,"endTime":692.29,"body":"walked back, I was stopped by the police and the American police car pulled up and said,"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":692.29,"endTime":693.85,"body":"Excuse me, sir, what are you doing?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":693.85,"endTime":697.54,"body":"I said, I'm you know, I'm just going here and I'm staying at that house."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":697.54,"endTime":700.09,"body":"What's the name of the person whose house you're staying in?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":700.09,"endTime":703.33,"body":"And I just had a blank and I just thought, Well, I remember."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":703.33,"endTime":705.19,"body":"Really? Where have you been?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":705.19,"endTime":707.11,"body":"I've just been to this place for breakfast."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":707.41,"endTime":708.58,"body":"That's a long way away."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":708.58,"endTime":710.41,"body":"That's over a mile and a half."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":710.62,"endTime":711.82,"body":"Well, I'm just walking."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":711.82,"endTime":714.22,"body":"And then he said, People don't walk around here."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":714.22,"endTime":717.25,"body":"It's been. You've been reported as being suspicious, so."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":717.25,"endTime":717.68,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":717.73,"endTime":719.05,"body":"That doesn't surprise me."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":719.08,"endTime":722.89,"body":"Tragically and sadly, that kind of experience I've had as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":722.89,"endTime":727.63,"body":"Not exactly like that, but I've been in strange neighborhoods where you do feel as if"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":727.63,"endTime":730.84,"body":"people are the curtains are flickering, that they're looking at you because you're"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":730.84,"endTime":732.67,"body":"walking and no one else is."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":732.67,"endTime":735.07,"body":"And there are many neighborhoods just around where I live."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":735.1,"endTime":736.33,"body":"They don't have payments."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":736.33,"endTime":739.24,"body":"They have homes on both sides and a road."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":739.24,"endTime":743.39,"body":"But there's actually no pavement because no one walks."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":743.39,"endTime":747.02,"body":"And it's just a regular suburban neighborhood."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":747.02,"endTime":752.03,"body":"It's just not made for walking, which I think is is clearly a huge mistake."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":752.03,"endTime":757.73,"body":"And but it just goes, doesn't it, to the psyche about walking not only as a form of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":757.73,"endTime":761.09,"body":"exercise, but the necessity to walk for anything."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":761.09,"endTime":765.74,"body":"I think it does something about the way you treat other people or the way you think about"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":765.74,"endTime":766.88,"body":"other people as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":766.88,"endTime":771.59,"body":"I think because if you just live in your house and if you go to a car or you go to these"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":771.59,"endTime":776.27,"body":"little enclosed environments, I wonder whether or not it makes you feel more suspicious"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":776.27,"endTime":781.58,"body":"about people. And if you are out and about and you're walking, you can I'm sure you can"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":781.58,"endTime":785.12,"body":"remember going for a walk when you were young in the north east."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":785.15,"endTime":788.84,"body":"You might be going for a walk out in the country somewhere and every time you saw"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":788.84,"endTime":790.6,"body":"somebody, they would just say hello."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":790.61,"endTime":795.44,"body":"Yeah, nowadays, you know, depending on where you are, if you somebody says hello, you're"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":795.47,"endTime":797.78,"body":"treated with suspicion or they treated with suspicion."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":797.78,"endTime":802.7,"body":"You're right. Although I've got to say, last time I was back home in Darlington in County"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":802.73,"endTime":805.4,"body":"Durham, I continued my walking."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":805.4,"endTime":808.04,"body":"I do it every morning from my mum's house."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":808.04,"endTime":812.72,"body":"And I was actually struck by the number of people who did say good morning."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":812.72,"endTime":817.73,"body":"I actually found it quite uplifting compared with when I walk here in in the Los Angeles"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":817.73,"endTime":824.72,"body":"area of California, where I actually feel that fewer people make eye contact and want to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":824.72,"endTime":827.57,"body":"people have their earbuds in and they're focused on what they're doing."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":827.57,"endTime":829.94,"body":"And I was actually struck in a very positive way."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":829.94,"endTime":834.86,"body":"And I found it quite uplifting that, you know, friendly northeast of England, that it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":834.86,"endTime":837.17,"body":"still produced that kind of reaction, which is quite nice."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":837.17,"endTime":841.73,"body":"Just going back to the study, one line of information that came out from it that I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":841.73,"endTime":846.38,"body":"thought was interesting, they're saying that the authors are saying that further studies"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":846.41,"endTime":851.57,"body":"are still required to see whether these kinds of benefits that we're talking about exist"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":851.57,"endTime":859.16,"body":"for more intensive types of of walking or indeed running, such as marathon running and."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":859.28,"endTime":864.29,"body":"Triathlons that the jury is still out in terms of whether they are positive or perhaps"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":864.29,"endTime":866.41,"body":"even negative for us."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":866.42,"endTime":871.55,"body":"And I've always found that with my marathon running and triathlon running, that I was I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":871.55,"endTime":874.82,"body":"wasn't convinced that it was the best thing I could be doing for my health."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":874.85,"endTime":880.04,"body":"It was great for my the competitive nature of what I do and maybe the social nature of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":880.04,"endTime":881.54,"body":"what I'm doing in terms of exercise."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":881.54,"endTime":888.68,"body":"But I was never convinced that it was better than just an hour long walk in the morning."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":888.68,"endTime":893.42,"body":"Well, yes. I'm just immediately struck by the fact that the word marathon comes from this"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":893.42,"endTime":896.21,"body":"runner who was running in Greece."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":896.21,"endTime":901.52,"body":"Right. And to warn of the and he managed to run this immense distance to warn people of"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":901.52,"endTime":902.75,"body":"the approaching enemy."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":902.75,"endTime":908.24,"body":"And then apparently he just collapsed and died because of the intense run that he'd just"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":908.24,"endTime":910.97,"body":"done. So. So even the origin of the word marathon."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":911.06,"endTime":912.23,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":912.23,"endTime":915.29,"body":"I mean, that said, I'm still a big fan of marathons and triathlons."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":915.29,"endTime":917.27,"body":"I think the you've got to be careful."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":917.27,"endTime":920.07,"body":"You've got to make sure you're in good shape to approach it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":920.07,"endTime":925.53,"body":"And the number of casualties are absolutely minuscule in terms of the number of people"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":925.53,"endTime":928.91,"body":"that are involved in these competitive large scale sports."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":928.91,"endTime":933.24,"body":"So I think they're good and they make you feel fantastic when you've actually finished."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":933.24,"endTime":937.47,"body":"Well, because I'm 62 and I'm now start thinking about things that I'd like to do, I'm"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":937.47,"endTime":941.34,"body":"actually thinking about trying to run a marathon myself, but I haven't decided whether or"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":941.34,"endTime":945.15,"body":"not to do that yet. But I it's something that I just think I'd like to do it just to say"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":945.15,"endTime":945.78,"body":"I've done it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":945.78,"endTime":947.28,"body":"You slipped that in, Peter."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":947.31,"endTime":948.6,"body":"You slipped that in there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":948.6,"endTime":951.48,"body":"It's almost like you're committing to do it in my eyes."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":951.48,"endTime":953.58,"body":"Yes, it is, isn't it? It is, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":953.88,"endTime":955.89,"body":"But I'm right."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":955.98,"endTime":957.87,"body":"Yes, it is. Yes, I did slip it in there."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":957.87,"endTime":960.0,"body":"And it is it is a sort of a commitment, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":960.24,"endTime":963.6,"body":"Once I say it on on the air and it's recorded."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":963.6,"endTime":964.77,"body":"Yes. Good luck."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":964.77,"endTime":966.24,"body":"We'll follow with interest."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":966.48,"endTime":971.52,"body":"On a little side tangent if you if you've got the time for this, have you come across the"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":971.52,"endTime":974.46,"body":"concept of immersion pulmonary edema?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":974.67,"endTime":976.28,"body":"It's kind of familiar, but tell me."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":976.29,"endTime":979.89,"body":"So it's essentially what happens for certain."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":979.89,"endTime":985.47,"body":"It's when the your blood, your body fluids starts rather than gas coming from your lungs"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":985.47,"endTime":986.61,"body":"into your body fluids."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":986.61,"endTime":989.31,"body":"You start having body fluids coming into your lungs."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":989.55,"endTime":993.36,"body":"So it's very, very bad because it impacts upon your ability to respire and all the rest"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":993.36,"endTime":998.52,"body":"of it. It's an issue for scuba divers and it's something that's very big in the scuba"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":998.52,"endTime":1000.38,"body":"diving medical literature at the moment."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1000.38,"endTime":1006.17,"body":"But most of the documented evidence of it is associated with people doing these iron"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1006.47,"endTime":1008.12,"body":"Ironman challenges."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1008.24,"endTime":1014.06,"body":"Who and one of the risk factors is overhydration and blood pressure issues as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1014.06,"endTime":1018.68,"body":"But overhydration is one of the risk factors and it's associated bizarrely, it's one of"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1018.68,"endTime":1020.21,"body":"these things that's associated."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1020.21,"endTime":1026.81,"body":"It has been documented in people who are auditioning for special forces who are doing"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1026.81,"endTime":1031.73,"body":"these ridiculous well, I shouldn't say ridiculous, but these, you know, very, very"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1031.73,"endTime":1033.53,"body":"intense levels of exercise."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1071.6599999999999,"endTime":1074.6299999999999,"body":"You're listening to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1074.6299999999999,"endTime":1076.28,"body":"Peter Allison is with me."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1076.28,"endTime":1079.85,"body":"And we're talking about this week's new longevity science."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1079.8799999999999,"endTime":1085.6699999999998,"body":"Let's move on to this next study which came out just a few days ago, which again, is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1085.6699999999998,"endTime":1089.06,"body":"really interesting to me because you and I talk a lot about exercise and the importance"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1089.06,"endTime":1095.6,"body":"of exercise. When I look at my longevity and the pursuit of a long healthspan, it really"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1095.6,"endTime":1102.44,"body":"is combining all the tools in the box, and that includes the latest medical evidence and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1102.44,"endTime":1107.54,"body":"the latest medical interventions that we can apply to ourselves, as well as the simpler"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1107.54,"endTime":1111.35,"body":"things that involve doing more exercise and eating a better diet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1111.35,"endTime":1118.31,"body":"But in terms of medicine, one of the biggest killers of men is prostate cancer."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1118.31,"endTime":1126.2,"body":"And this interesting study that shows that a simply a ten minute MRI scan could be better"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1126.2,"endTime":1131.6599999999999,"body":"at screening for prostate cancer than the traditional PSA test."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1131.6599999999999,"endTime":1136.01,"body":"And I know there's a lot of there are a lot of questions regarding the PSA test, which"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1136.01,"endTime":1140.72,"body":"and it does vary according to country, how routinely that test is used."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1140.72,"endTime":1145.49,"body":"I think it's perhaps more routinely used here in the States than it is in the UK at the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1145.49,"endTime":1152.69,"body":"moment. But this simple MRI, from what I read and this is a study from the BMJ Oncology"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1152.72,"endTime":1155.3899999999999,"body":"Journal, it seems to be very promising."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1155.3899999999999,"endTime":1156.86,"body":"It does seem to be promising."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1156.86,"endTime":1163.61,"body":"And I and I guess if we go back in time, I don't know how many years you go back in time."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1163.61,"endTime":1166.9099999999999,"body":"The PSA test was very cheap."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1166.94,"endTime":1175.52,"body":"It still is very cheap and the MRI scan was very expensive and MRI scans are now just not"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1175.52,"endTime":1177.95,"body":"as expensive as they used to be."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1178.49,"endTime":1186.53,"body":"And I was the I know that in the the British hospital system, we've obviously got MRI"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1186.56,"endTime":1189.02,"body":"machines in the in the major hospitals."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1189.02,"endTime":1195.08,"body":"But the satellite, smaller hospitals have their own little MRI machines which are which"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1195.08,"endTime":1196.31,"body":"seem to be like semi portable."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1196.49,"endTime":1200.81,"body":"And I've just transferred by a small vehicle and they just go there."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1200.81,"endTime":1205.4299999999998,"body":"So for people who might have difficulty getting to the big hospital, they go to this"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1205.4299999999998,"endTime":1210.86,"body":"little small hospital that's a satellite hospital and the MRI scanner comes to them."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1211.01,"endTime":1216.86,"body":"I mean, and so I think the availability of the technology has meant that the MRI scan is"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1216.86,"endTime":1218.03,"body":"better at doing this."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1218.03,"endTime":1223.7,"body":"And now MRI scans are so much cheaper to do and so much more available that that's why"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1223.7,"endTime":1231.4099999999999,"body":"this now becomes this screening process of using the PSA is perhaps less valuable because"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1231.4099999999999,"endTime":1235.01,"body":"the MRI scans are more available and they're relatively cheap now."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1235.04,"endTime":1237.53,"body":"I suppose that's that's the underlying story."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1237.53,"endTime":1243.32,"body":"I think this was a study involving men in London aged between 50 and 75."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1243.32,"endTime":1246.02,"body":"So we're right in the middle of that age group."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1246.02,"endTime":1253.73,"body":"More than half of the men whose cancer was picked up on MRI had low PSA scores of scores"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1253.73,"endTime":1258.4199999999998,"body":"of below three nanograms per milliliter, which is considered normal."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1258.4199999999998,"endTime":1262.56,"body":"So they would have been those people would have been with those results would have been"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1262.56,"endTime":1268.31,"body":"falsely reassured that they were free from the disease, which is quite significant."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1268.32,"endTime":1275.1599999999999,"body":"Well, yeah, because I think prior to this, the sort of like the my word of mouth"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1275.1599999999999,"endTime":1282.6599999999999,"body":"discussions with other people about PSA was I was aware of the overdiagnosis issues."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1282.6599999999999,"endTime":1284.19,"body":"So I was."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1284.3999999999999,"endTime":1291.21,"body":"And so overdiagnosis in a screening to screening tool is more acceptable, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1291.21,"endTime":1294.96,"body":"If there's an overdiagnosis in a screening tool and then you go for the subsequent"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1294.96,"endTime":1300.33,"body":"analysis and then you get screened out, that seems like an acceptable process because"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1300.33,"endTime":1302.55,"body":"that's what a screening tool is supposed to be."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1302.55,"endTime":1306.78,"body":"But if a screening tool says you're okay when you're not, well, that's a different kettle"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1306.78,"endTime":1307.6699999999998,"body":"of fish, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1307.6799999999998,"endTime":1313.29,"body":"Exactly. I guess overdiagnosis is probably more acceptable on the part of the the patient"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1313.29,"endTime":1318.0,"body":"than it is the institution that is overdiagnosing because of the, let's say, the fiscal"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1318.0,"endTime":1322.71,"body":"and financial consequences of that of pursuing it and and following it up."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1322.71,"endTime":1324.4199999999998,"body":"So yeah, it's interesting."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1324.4199999999998,"endTime":1329.97,"body":"I think it's positive and maybe it's just worth saying and I've had a lot of prostate"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1329.97,"endTime":1331.1699999999998,"body":"cancer screening."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1331.1699999999998,"endTime":1334.83,"body":"There is prostate cancer in my family."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1334.83,"endTime":1340.1699999999998,"body":"I would encourage every man to go ahead and get whatever screening is available wherever"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1340.1699999999998,"endTime":1345.09,"body":"you live in the world. And I know it does vary around the world, but even if it is PSA"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1345.12,"endTime":1349.86,"body":"that is still the the gold standard in your particular area, I think it's probably still"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1349.86,"endTime":1351.3,"body":"worth having it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1351.4199999999998,"endTime":1358.08,"body":"And let's hope that these MRIs come online soon, although I did see that it may be up to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1358.08,"endTime":1363.36,"body":"ten years that further studies are required, but it could be quite a while before this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1363.36,"endTime":1364.62,"body":"becomes the standard."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1364.86,"endTime":1367.02,"body":"Let's move on to those little worms."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1367.02,"endTime":1371.31,"body":"This is one I'm really looking forward to talking to you about, Professor Peter, the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1371.31,"endTime":1375.72,"body":"geologist who probably understands these things a little bit better than I do, how they"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1375.72,"endTime":1382.62,"body":"could possibly happen. But a worm, a nematode, a worm survived 46,000 years."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1382.6499999999999,"endTime":1384.6299999999999,"body":"Is that your grandchildren? I can hear in the background."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1385.11,"endTime":1388.02,"body":"It is. Would you like me to go and ask them to be quiet a little bit?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1388.2,"endTime":1390.6599999999999,"body":"Let's keep going. Okay. It's nice to hear kids in the background."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1391.32,"endTime":1391.95,"body":"Yeah, it is."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1391.95,"endTime":1393.69,"body":"So. And she's happy, so that's great."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1393.69,"endTime":1399.72,"body":"Well, that's good. So nematode worms, one worm that survived 46,000 years in permafrost,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1400.26,"endTime":1403.98,"body":"essentially, I was going to say brought back to life, but I guess it never died."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1403.98,"endTime":1409.62,"body":"It was just the increase in temperature revived it and it actually managed to produce"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1409.6499999999999,"endTime":1412.11,"body":"offspring before then dying a few days later."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1412.11,"endTime":1416.49,"body":"And the lifespan of these nematode worms is is short anyway."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1416.49,"endTime":1418.83,"body":"But it's just the scale of this thing, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1418.83,"endTime":1420.8999999999999,"body":"46,000 years. That is so astonishing."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1420.8999999999999,"endTime":1427.9199999999998,"body":"I mean, this almost sounds like the opening lines of a science fiction movie, doesn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1427.9199999999998,"endTime":1430.6799999999998,"body":"Really? You know, it's really interesting."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1430.6799999999998,"endTime":1434.73,"body":"But I think there's a sort of like a broader, genuine concern here."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1434.73,"endTime":1438.6,"body":"And I think the issue isn't so much that these particular nematodes came up."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1438.86,"endTime":1446.12,"body":"I mean, the broader issue is that there's an awful lot of stuff which is frozen in"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1446.12,"endTime":1453.8,"body":"permafrost. And as we have global warming, that permafrost is starting to disappear."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1453.8,"endTime":1457.82,"body":"So whatever's in the permafrost becomes released."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1457.82,"endTime":1459.97,"body":"So more broad."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1459.98,"endTime":1464.9299999999998,"body":"And and so for me, this story is actually just flagging up this broader risk."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1464.9299999999998,"endTime":1469.94,"body":"And there's a whole suite of I mean, so there is there geochemical risks because we got"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1469.94,"endTime":1473.4199999999998,"body":"these things called methane hydrates, which are in permafrost."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1473.4199999999998,"endTime":1477.83,"body":"And if they are defrosted, then they get in the atmosphere and that's a potent global"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1477.83,"endTime":1480.29,"body":"warming gas if the methane gets in there."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1480.29,"endTime":1484.85,"body":"So that's a concern. But on a more biological risk, then there is there have been a suite"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1484.85,"endTime":1488.96,"body":"of papers which have been published in the last few years, people who've extracted"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1488.96,"endTime":1494.09,"body":"viruses from permafrost, live viruses."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1494.09,"endTime":1499.9199999999998,"body":"So there's a virus which can infect amoebas, and this virus was extracted from"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1499.9199999999998,"endTime":1504.87,"body":"permafrost. And lo and behold, it was in fact, still infecting amoebas today."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1504.87,"endTime":1509.76,"body":"So it was viable and was doing the same thing as it was doing X thousand years ago."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1510.24,"endTime":1518.28,"body":"More. There is studies which have been people have extracted genetic material from the"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1518.28,"endTime":1525.09,"body":"1918 flu pandemic associated with burials in permafrost."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1525.09,"endTime":1533.79,"body":"So then the worry is when the permafrost melts, is there any risk of previous the bugs"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1533.79,"endTime":1535.3799999999999,"body":"from previous pandemics getting out?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1535.3799999999999,"endTime":1536.52,"body":"So is that a risk?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1536.55,"endTime":1541.29,"body":"There was a study done in of anthrax."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1541.74,"endTime":1549.1499999999999,"body":"So there was an anthrax incident, I think, in Russia in about 2016, and that was"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1549.1499999999999,"endTime":1553.26,"body":"associated with a lot of deer dying and a number of people being infected."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1553.26,"endTime":1556.96,"body":"And that was thought to be from melting permafrost."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1556.96,"endTime":1562.75,"body":"So there's the interesting stuff about the about longevity and about this bug being able"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1562.75,"endTime":1564.97,"body":"to survive in the permafrost."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1565.06,"endTime":1571.45,"body":"But the broader risk for me is that there's a whole bunch of stuff in there that is will"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1571.45,"endTime":1577.87,"body":"have been adapted and been held in check by an environment that is tens of thousands for"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1577.8999999999999,"endTime":1580.1499999999999,"body":"the environment tens of thousands of years ago."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1580.1499999999999,"endTime":1586.87,"body":"And people might not have the immunity that was around that that was there then."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1586.87,"endTime":1592.36,"body":"So I think that's a bit more of a that's a bit more of a concern, I think."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1592.36,"endTime":1593.56,"body":"Yeah, it is interesting."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1593.56,"endTime":1597.97,"body":"And they are now studying the descendants of this worm."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1598.33,"endTime":1599.77,"body":"It did reproduce. So they are."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1600.1299999999999,"endTime":1604.72,"body":"So there'll be more questions, there'll be more answers hopefully to to glean from this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1604.72,"endTime":1606.76,"body":"one little tiny worm."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1606.76,"endTime":1612.25,"body":"I know the longevity community got quite excited on hearing this story because nematode"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1612.25,"endTime":1615.36,"body":"worms are used a different type of nematode."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1615.37,"endTime":1618.71,"body":"This was this was new, but a different type, so related.."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1618.71,"endTime":1625.12,"body":"Are used extensively in laboratories in terms of longevity research, in large part because"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1625.12,"endTime":1629.1399999999999,"body":"of the short lifespan, just in the same way as fruit flies."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1629.1399999999999,"endTime":1633.8799999999999,"body":"And mice are very good models in the laboratory because the entire lifespan is short and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1633.8799999999999,"endTime":1635.32,"body":"therefore you can get results."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1635.32,"endTime":1639.7,"body":"But the very fact that nematodes are perhaps the first creature that are used in that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1639.7,"endTime":1643.54,"body":"chain of events or chain of study for whatever particular issue."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1643.54,"endTime":1648.3899999999999,"body":"So I'm just and I think we can probably discount this, but as to whether there are"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1648.4299999999998,"endTime":1654.1,"body":"there's anything in this that we can correlate with human longevity or the possibility"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1654.1,"endTime":1657.97,"body":"and there are some people that believe that if we freeze our brains now, we could one day"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1657.97,"endTime":1663.97,"body":"in centuries time be brought back to life that ourselves our I don't know whether how you"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1663.97,"endTime":1668.35,"body":"describe it, whether it would be the same person, whether it would be just the beginning"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1668.35,"endTime":1671.83,"body":"of life for a new being, if we could be brought back to life."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1671.83,"endTime":1676.6299999999999,"body":"Does this finding with this one single nematode tell us anything, do you think?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1676.87,"endTime":1685.12,"body":"I think the jump from nematodes to humans, I think is a big jump in terms of cellular"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1685.12,"endTime":1686.3899999999999,"body":"complexity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1686.4099999999999,"endTime":1686.74,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1686.74,"endTime":1692.1699999999998,"body":"So I kn`ow that there are microscopic organisms which are adapted to living in cold"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1692.1699999999998,"endTime":1696.94,"body":"environments, also have some of them have antifreeze."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1696.94,"endTime":1701.6499999999999,"body":"So there are algae or bacteria, green algae that have bacteria present within their"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1701.95,"endTime":1706.48,"body":"within their cell, within their cellular material to prevent their cells from being"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1706.48,"endTime":1709.3,"body":"damaged by the formation of ice during freezing."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1709.3,"endTime":1712.27,"body":"And I don't know about the nematodes."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1712.4199999999998,"endTime":1715.6,"body":"I mean, we've all frozen stuff in the freezer, right?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1715.6,"endTime":1719.47,"body":"And we've seen how badly damaged the meat's been when we've got it out."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1719.47,"endTime":1720.8799999999999,"body":"If we haven't done it right."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1720.8799999999999,"endTime":1726.46,"body":"I think in terms of human beings being frozen, I would say I think that's a long, long,"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1726.46,"endTime":1727.72,"body":"long, long way to go."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1727.75,"endTime":1732.58,"body":"I suspect my concern more I would think that my concerns are bigger risk than that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1732.58,"endTime":1735.07,"body":"I think I am on the same page with you there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1735.07,"endTime":1736.56,"body":"I think it's far better."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1736.57,"endTime":1737.9199999999998,"body":"It's fascinating. It's interesting."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1737.9199999999998,"endTime":1743.23,"body":"But I think focusing on the here and now and coming full circle, focusing on healthspan"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1743.26,"endTime":1744.97,"body":"is probably the best thing we can do."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1745.0,"endTime":1746.59,"body":"Peter, it's always good to talk to you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1746.6799999999998,"endTime":1747.58,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1747.61,"endTime":1748.09,"body":"Take care."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1749.44,"endTime":1753.3999999999999,"body":"And Peter and I will return with another conversation about the longevity science that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1753.3999999999999,"endTime":1755.4099999999999,"body":"piques our interest very soon."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1755.4099999999999,"endTime":1760.0,"body":"If you see something you think is worth discussing or sharing, please let us know."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1760.0,"endTime":1764.47,"body":"Or if you just want to comment on the topics that we raise, do drop me a line or send a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1764.47,"endTime":1768.34,"body":"voice memo. My email is Peter@LLAMApodcast.com."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1768.34,"endTime":1772.81,"body":"You can also get in touch through our website LLAMApodcast.com."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1773.11,"endTime":1775.26,"body":"L-L-A_M_A podcast dot com."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1775.27,"endTime":1778.0,"body":"This has been a Healthspan Media Production."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1778.0,"endTime":1779.5,"body":"Thank you so much for listening."}]}