{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1.1,"endTime":5.48,"body":"One of the messages I could take from this is no matter how much exercise I do, if I"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":5.48,"endTime":8.58,"body":"haven't got the right genes, I'm not going to be able to punch those levels."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":8.6,"endTime":12.11,"body":"The turnaround for that is to say no, or I should be just enjoying my exercise, and I"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":12.11,"endTime":15.29,"body":"should enjoy the way it makes me feel for the rest of the day, because it does make me"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":15.29,"endTime":15.89,"body":"feel gr`eat."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":23.81,"endTime":27.77,"body":"Perfectionism, calorie restriction and good genes."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":27.8,"endTime":29.57,"body":"Our topics for this episode."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":29.57,"endTime":30.98,"body":"Hello again, I'm Peter Bowes."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":31.01,"endTime":33.92,"body":"This is the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":33.92,"endTime":40.07,"body":"Peter Allison, my school pal from 50 years ago, is with me for another conversation in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":40.07,"endTime":46.52,"body":"which we contemplate the future, review the latest longevity science, and ruminate over"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":46.52,"endTime":48.08,"body":"the aging process."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":48.08,"endTime":54.15,"body":"We're both settling into our 60s and have a vested interest in that subject."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":54.17,"endTime":55.28,"body":"Peter, I'm in Los Angeles."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":55.28,"endTime":60.95,"body":"You're in the UK, where I gather the big decision of the week is whether or not to switch"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":60.98,"endTime":64.6,"body":"on the central heating as the winter encroaches."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":64.61,"endTime":66.74,"body":"Oh, I cracked this morning."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":66.74,"endTime":68.42,"body":"I came and switched it on."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":68.42,"endTime":71.09,"body":"My wife was complaining about the cold, so she went to."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":71.33,"endTime":73.01,"body":"I'll tell this to everybody who's listening."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":73.01,"endTime":77.57,"body":"My wife found a spare pair of pajamas and was wrapped her head up in her spare pair of"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":77.57,"endTime":83.48,"body":"pajamas last night, so I felt a little bit guilty about just being sort of a combination"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":83.48,"endTime":87.56,"body":"of just refusing to try and refusing to put the heating on so that I'll give up."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":87.56,"endTime":88.01,"body":"So put it on."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":88.01,"endTime":92.45,"body":"That creates an interesting mental image of the pajamas wrapped around her head."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":93.41,"endTime":96.38,"body":"I woke up this morning and I thought, well, you've got a turban on."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":97.61,"endTime":100.46,"body":"So Peter, I want to talk to you this week."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":100.52,"endTime":102.89,"body":"At least one of the topics I just mentioned, perfectionism."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":102.89,"endTime":108.17,"body":"The last episode that I published a couple of weeks ago with an assistant professor of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":108.17,"endTime":112.64,"body":"psychology at the London School of Economics, Thomas Curran, who has written a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":112.64,"endTime":118.19,"body":"fascinating book about perfectionism, everyone's favorite flaw."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":118.19,"endTime":122.93,"body":"It's something you might describe about yourself at a job interview."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":123.15,"endTime":124.31,"body":"You got any flaws?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":124.31,"endTime":130.37,"body":"Yeah, I'm a perfectionist, supposedly to impress someone, whereas his theory is that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":130.37,"endTime":136.07,"body":"perfectionism actually can be, or at least can lead to quite a stressful lifestyle, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":136.07,"endTime":139.73,"body":"that it might be better just to focus on good enough."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":139.76,"endTime":144.17,"body":"I was interested just to apply this to what you and I talk about, and that is aging and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":144.17,"endTime":152.3,"body":"longevity with the the thought, are we sometimes striving to be too good, too perfect in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":152.3,"endTime":154.55,"body":"what we were seeking to achieve?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":154.55,"endTime":164.27,"body":"I think perfectionism is often portrayed as a beneficial trait."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":165.09,"endTime":167.7,"body":"And I'm not quite sure that it is."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":167.97,"endTime":174.9,"body":"I think sometimes that perfectionism is the enemy of success."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":174.9,"endTime":184.77,"body":"I think because sometimes perfectionism means that you are ever striving to achieve"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":185.07,"endTime":187.98,"body":"goals which are no longer cost effective."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":188.01,"endTime":193.53,"body":"Because if you put the cost that you're putting into the achievement of the goal, well,"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":193.53,"endTime":196.2,"body":"sometimes you get to a point of diminishing returns."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":196.2,"endTime":200.47,"body":"And so then perfection means that you are striving for diminishing returns, when maybe,"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":200.55,"endTime":205.8,"body":"perhaps the right choice is to think, I will now have another goal."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":205.8,"endTime":213.15,"body":"I wonder if a little bit like a genetic predisposition to get certain diseases, whether"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":213.15,"endTime":219.15,"body":"perfectionism is something that is built into us, and it's just like some people stay up"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":219.15,"endTime":220.95,"body":"late at night, they are night owls."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":220.95,"endTime":222.6,"body":"Some of us get up early in the morning."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":222.6,"endTime":227.82,"body":"I wonder if some of us are predisposed to be perfectionists, and that it's something that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":227.82,"endTime":232.02,"body":"we maybe have to work quite hard to shake off?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":232.02,"endTime":239.37,"body":"Well, it's difficult to well, I'm thinking about that because I think I have at times, I"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":239.37,"endTime":246.27,"body":"have at times been something of a perfectionist, and I think that I probably got it off"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":246.27,"endTime":253.29,"body":"my father, probably from behavior, and I could easily have been from behavior rather than"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":253.29,"endTime":254.43,"body":"genes. Right."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":254.97,"endTime":261.09,"body":"And looking back at my, the way my if I was, it was if I was doing some sort of like DIY"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":261.09,"endTime":264.12,"body":"work type thing, I would view my dad as being a perfectionist."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":264.12,"endTime":269.04,"body":"Although in hindsight he seemed to be a perfectionist because he was so much better at it"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":269.04,"endTime":271.35,"body":"than me. So it seemed like perfection."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":271.35,"endTime":275.88,"body":"But the reality of it was he would get something good enough, and then he'd say, nobody's"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":275.88,"endTime":277.5,"body":"going to spot the difference, so just leave it."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":277.5,"endTime":279.21,"body":"So it was my perfect, my."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":279.21,"endTime":283.98,"body":"I perceived him to be a perfectionist, but really, he was just so much better than me."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":283.98,"endTime":286.89,"body":"But he managed his own performance."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":286.89,"endTime":291.72,"body":"So maybe he wasn't such a perfectionist, but I think that's probably where I picked it up"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":291.72,"endTime":292.71,"body":"from."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":292.71,"endTime":300.24,"body":"And as I say, I try to apply this idea to what we do in terms of diet, exercise, thinking"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":300.24,"endTime":301.62,"body":"about longevity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":301.62,"endTime":308.37,"body":"And I guess sometimes in my life I've applied or tried to apply a certain exercise regime"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":308.37,"endTime":313.32,"body":"or diet to 100% to to not have the cheat days in the diet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":313.32,"endTime":318.6,"body":"And over the years, I've developed the mindset that I think we need cheat days, whether"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":318.6,"endTime":324.12,"body":"it applies to what we eat or even the exercise regime, that we don't do the full five"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":324.12,"endTime":329.82,"body":"miles every day or every allotted day, and that some days you don't go to the gym at all"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":330.0,"endTime":333.39,"body":"and still feel okay about it, still feel happy about it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":333.39,"endTime":337.02,"body":"And I think there's probably a broader message there in terms of what we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":337.02,"endTime":339.45,"body":"achieve. I think you're right."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":339.69,"endTime":341.37,"body":"There has to be a balance, isn't there?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":341.37,"endTime":349.8,"body":"Because I feel there is a need for me to develop a habit because it's so easy for me to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":349.8,"endTime":353.94,"body":"slip and lie in bed a little bit longer or whatever."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":353.94,"endTime":359.64,"body":"It's so easy not to do it or think of all sorts of reasons why I shouldn't exercise."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":359.64,"endTime":366.69,"body":"It's important to make that habit, but it's equally important that if I don't do it, the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":366.69,"endTime":371.1,"body":"failure to do it does not seem as some crushing defeat."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":371.1,"endTime":372.43,"body":"I mean, it just has to be."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":372.45,"endTime":375.72,"body":"I'll all right. I'll just be happy doing what I'm doing today instead."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":375.72,"endTime":378.51,"body":"And that probably also applies to the ultimate goal."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":378.51,"endTime":384.0,"body":"And I often talk in terms of, of years, what the goal might be, whether it's the average"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":384.0,"endTime":392.16,"body":"lifespan of about 78 years old in the Western world now, or 80 or 90 or 100 and what in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":392.16,"endTime":398.16,"body":"terms of our mindset, we actually settle on as being okay, and is it becoming more"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":398.16,"endTime":400.8,"body":"stressful for us to think about?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":401.01,"endTime":405.21,"body":"We can actually get onto this subject with the topic that we're coming onto in terms of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":405.21,"endTime":411.63,"body":"genes in a moment, but yeah, getting to 80, 90 or 100, it's either going to happen or it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":411.63,"endTime":417.12,"body":"isn't going to happen. And I think my point is that let's not stress about it too much in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":417.12,"endTime":419.52,"body":"our 50s, 60s and 70s."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":419.52,"endTime":423.75,"body":"Well, yes, because I mean, the whole point of it, it's the journey rather than the"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":423.75,"endTime":424.92,"body":"destination, isn't it really?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":424.92,"endTime":429.9,"body":"Because if you get really stressed about getting to 80 and then just spend all your time"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":429.9,"endTime":432.69,"body":"stressing out, I've been a terrible person."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":432.69,"endTime":434.1,"body":"Well, I shouldn't say I've been a terrible person."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":434.1,"endTime":438.78,"body":"I've been terrible for focusing on the destination rather than the journey."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":438.78,"endTime":441.78,"body":"And there's so many times you get so busy."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":441.78,"endTime":445.74,"body":"And I think that's where I think some of the negatives of perfectionism come that it"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":445.74,"endTime":451.2,"body":"stops me enjoying the journey because you're so focused on the destination, and that can"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":451.2,"endTime":455.37,"body":"be such a waste, I think, and I think that implies to the whole thing of trying to get"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":455.37,"endTime":459.12,"body":"exercise to maintain health span as well is enjoy it."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":459.12,"endTime":461.04,"body":"And if you're not enjoying it, there's a problem."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":461.04,"endTime":464.49,"body":"Yeah. And the returns can be negative pretty quickly."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":464.76,"endTime":470.34,"body":"If you're not enjoying it, that you give up, then there's a mental effect of that feeling"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":470.34,"endTime":471.63,"body":"of failure."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":471.78,"endTime":476.88,"body":"So I think you're absolutely right in terms of the balance that we need to achieve these"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":476.88,"endTime":477.45,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":477.46,"endTime":482.58,"body":"Well, I tried to walk 50 miles a week and I set out that was my target."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":482.58,"endTime":487.32,"body":"I was going to try and walk 50 miles a week, and I walked 50 miles the first week."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":487.32,"endTime":494.27,"body":"And then the second week as my legs started to feel really a bit sore and I and I and I"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":494.28,"endTime":495.84,"body":"sort of like lagged down a little bit."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":495.84,"endTime":501.57,"body":"And I suppose my goal and this was prompted by that song, if I could walk 500 miles, I"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":501.57,"endTime":504.0,"body":"thought, can I walk 50 miles a week for ten weeks?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":504.0,"endTime":510.39,"body":"So I am going to try and do walking 500 miles, but I'm going to have to try and see if my"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":510.39,"endTime":515.4,"body":"legs can improve here, because actually walking ten miles a day, five days a week."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":516.06,"endTime":518.19,"body":"And on top of that, of course I'm going to the gym as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":518.19,"endTime":522.72,"body":"So it's also the time it takes because it just does take an awful lot of time."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":523.17,"endTime":529.38,"body":"But yeah, so that comes into this conversation that we're having about and being able to"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":529.38,"endTime":534.45,"body":"sit back and say, the perfectionist, well, I wanted to do that, but then I just have to"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":534.45,"endTime":538.74,"body":"sort of like say, well, maybe I have to scale that back a little bit and maybe try it"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":538.74,"endTime":540.21,"body":"again or not."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":540.24,"endTime":543.42,"body":"That's not to say, of course, that the goals aren't good for us."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":543.42,"endTime":548.55,"body":"And like you, I have lists of things to achieve, and especially when it applies to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":548.55,"endTime":555.42,"body":"exercise. And you can't deny the positive impact of reaching a goal and sticking to the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":555.42,"endTime":562.02,"body":"target and getting the whatever it is 50 miles a week, 100 miles a week, or a modest five"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":562.02,"endTime":567.93,"body":"miles a week if if that is in your capacity to achieve that, there is certainly an"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":567.93,"endTime":573.18,"body":"impetus to do more after you've reached the goal, which I think is is good and is to be"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":573.18,"endTime":574.46,"body":"encouraged for a lot of people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":574.47,"endTime":577.11,"body":"Let's move on to this next story."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":577.11,"endTime":583.83,"body":"This study about calorie restriction caught my eye a few days ago by the National"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":583.83,"endTime":588.0,"body":"Institutes of Health and published in Aging Cell."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":588.18,"endTime":594.99,"body":"They looked into whether moderate calorie restriction can have a tangible benefit for"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":594.99,"endTime":599.49,"body":"well-being. And the key to this is a definition of moderate."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":599.52,"endTime":606.24,"body":"The goal on this study over two years for the participants, was to reduce their daily"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":606.24,"endTime":613.02,"body":"caloric intake by 25%, which is quite a lot, but the highest the group was able to reach"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":613.02,"endTime":616.53,"body":"was 12%, but even that 12%."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":616.53,"endTime":620.22,"body":"And the researchers call this a slight reduction in calories."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":620.22,"endTime":626.25,"body":"That was enough to activate most of the biological pathways that are important for"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":626.25,"endTime":627.69,"body":"healthy aging."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":627.69,"endTime":632.94,"body":"And I just did a quick calculation for your average man, maybe 2200 calories."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":633.03,"endTime":637.65,"body":"That is a reduction of only 264 calories in a day."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":637.65,"endTime":644.43,"body":"It isn't a huge amount, and the outcome of this was that individuals on calorie"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":644.43,"endTime":651.03,"body":"restriction as part of this study, they lost muscle mass and an average of 20 pounds of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":651.03,"endTime":653.49,"body":"weight over the first year."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":653.49,"endTime":656.31,"body":"But they maintained their weight for the second year."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":656.43,"endTime":664.11,"body":"But despite losing muscle mass, the calorie restriction participants didn't lose muscle"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":664.11,"endTime":666.96,"body":"strength. So they lose muscle mass."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":666.96,"endTime":673.29,"body":"But they don't lose muscle strength, suggesting that calorie restriction improved the as"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":673.29,"endTime":679.68,"body":"they put it, the amount of force generated by each unit of muscle mass called muscle"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":679.68,"endTime":681.09,"body":"specific force."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":681.09,"endTime":687.0,"body":"And so going right to the bottom of the page, the conclusion here is that a moderate"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":687.0,"endTime":692.76,"body":"amount of calorie restriction, seemingly only a couple of hundred calories a day, can"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":692.76,"endTime":695.19,"body":"have significant benefits."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":695.4,"endTime":698.22,"body":"Yeah I know, yeah, I was fascinated by this."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":698.22,"endTime":703.05,"body":"I mean, one of the things that fascinated me, following on from our previous discussion,"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":703.05,"endTime":709.71,"body":"was that there were people were trying to get a 24% calorie reduction, and 12% is what"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":709.71,"endTime":711.06,"body":"everybody achieved."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":711.06,"endTime":716.49,"body":"So just following on from our conversation of perfectionism, I just thought, well, you"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":716.49,"endTime":718.65,"body":"know, that's a that's a case in point."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":718.95,"endTime":724.35,"body":"Yeah. But yeah, I mean, and it was all of these it's all of these markers."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":724.35,"endTime":729.96,"body":"It switches on all of the right genes for longevity and healthspan just really great."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":729.96,"endTime":735.36,"body":"I mean, I've tried some fasting diets before, and I think we've discussed this before."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":735.36,"endTime":741.03,"body":"And when I've tried them, I've lost muscle mass, particularly upper body strength."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":741.03,"endTime":742.68,"body":"And it sort of put me off a little bit."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":742.68,"endTime":744.81,"body":"I think I was probably not doing it right."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":744.81,"endTime":749.22,"body":"I was I'm sure I was doing something wrong, but this is I mean, but again, as you say,"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":749.22,"endTime":751.74,"body":"this is really interesting because they don't lose muscle strength."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":751.74,"endTime":752.67,"body":"It's great."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":752.67,"endTime":757.65,"body":"It is great. And you're right, we've discussed fasting regimes before and I've"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":757.68,"endTime":763.64,"body":"experimented with quite a number, some clearly much more extreme than this in terms of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":763.64,"endTime":769.88,"body":"calorie Restriction over a restricted period of time, and one of the very noticeable"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":769.88,"endTime":772.13,"body":"effects is loss of of muscle mass."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":772.13,"endTime":777.08,"body":"But interestingly, and these are very different regimes and it's important, I think, not"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":777.08,"endTime":779.87,"body":"to confuse regimes."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":779.87,"endTime":784.19,"body":"Intermittent fasting, periodic fasting where you just fast for a couple of days a week."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":784.19,"endTime":789.83,"body":"But the one that I did was a fasting mimicking diet over a five day period, a very"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":789.89,"endTime":795.71,"body":"significantly reduced calorie intake, about 700 calories, at least on the final four of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":795.71,"endTime":797.99,"body":"the five days. A little bit more on the first day."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":797.99,"endTime":801.32,"body":"So much more significant than the 12% reduction here."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":801.32,"endTime":809.24,"body":"And although I lost muscle mass during that time, during the refeeding process, as the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":809.24,"endTime":815.66,"body":"scientists describe it, getting back to a normal diet on day six onwards I returned to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":815.66,"endTime":823.07,"body":"normal, but very quickly surpassed my abilities in terms of strength compared with what I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":823.07,"endTime":825.74,"body":"was when I started the five day regime."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":825.74,"endTime":831.47,"body":"And I think that is essentially the renewal process, the building of new muscle cells"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":831.47,"endTime":835.43,"body":"within the body, as opposed to the muscle cells that you had previously, which might have"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":835.43,"endTime":838.28,"body":"been a little bit past their sell by date."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":838.31,"endTime":843.47,"body":"You grow new muscle cells and you actually feeling physically better and physically"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":843.47,"endTime":845.81,"body":"stronger very quickly after the fast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":845.81,"endTime":851.85,"body":"I would say within 5 to 10 days I was actually performing much better post fast than pre"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":851.9,"endTime":858.2,"body":"fast. And I think there's something of that in what has been identified in this study,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":858.2,"endTime":863.36,"body":"that the reduction of calories is longer term, going to be beneficial for us."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":863.75,"endTime":869.6,"body":"Yeah. I mean, what's good is this is coming out for just such a small reduction in"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":869.6,"endTime":876.59,"body":"calories. I mean, it just causes me to pause a little bit and think about we ultimately,"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":876.59,"endTime":881.39,"body":"our distant ancestors were all hunter gatherers, and so we were all as hunter gatherers."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":881.39,"endTime":887.06,"body":"You just programed to go away and gather and hunt and eat while you've got stuff and"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":887.06,"endTime":893.57,"body":"store fat up. And, you know, that's been selected for for generation upon generations."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":893.57,"endTime":898.97,"body":"And now here we are essentially, for most of us, we're just surrounded by constant"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":898.97,"endTime":903.98,"body":"plenty. And so we're just really just doing all of the things that evolution has selected"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":903.98,"endTime":910.61,"body":"for over thousands of years just by constantly eating almost 24 over seven, isn't it"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":910.61,"endTime":913.7,"body":"really? It's just easy just to open a cupboard and have a little snack."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":913.7,"endTime":917.39,"body":"Yeah. So really we've just been programed to do that by all of our evolution."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":917.39,"endTime":920.21,"body":"And now now it's just not good for us."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":920.21,"endTime":924.77,"body":"Well yeah, I think it shows that the the feast, famine lifestyle, which is basically what"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":924.77,"endTime":929.84,"body":"you're describing, the hunter gatherer food is plentiful during certain times and it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":929.84,"endTime":931.58,"body":"isn't at other times."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":931.85,"endTime":936.44,"body":"A big part of that kind of lifestyle that is still very positive for us today."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":936.44,"endTime":940.31,"body":"The problem with now is when you talk about being able to grab a snack, I think that is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":940.31,"endTime":941.51,"body":"that is the problem."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":941.51,"endTime":947.69,"body":"How easy it is to get some petrol and buy a snack, which is, you know what, many people"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":947.69,"endTime":952.34,"body":"will do that you've got a refrigerator, you work from home and you're feeling a little"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":952.34,"endTime":956.21,"body":"stressed. You open the fridge door and there are lots of snacks to eat."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":956.21,"endTime":958.1,"body":"It is too easy to snack."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":958.1,"endTime":963.35,"body":"And all of this, of course, is promoted in advertising, TV advertising especially."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":963.35,"endTime":965.21,"body":"There's some really interesting."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":965.39,"endTime":967.16,"body":"I'll not dive too deeply into this right now."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":967.16,"endTime":974.6,"body":"There's some really interesting research about television, advertising of food and the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":974.6,"endTime":979.49,"body":"processes that we go through, especially our brain when we're watching television,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":979.49,"endTime":983.45,"body":"suspenseful television drama, the way that the brain is working."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":983.45,"endTime":988.94,"body":"Perhaps when it's coming to a climax, it's five to the hour and your program is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":988.94,"endTime":994.85,"body":"finishing, and then there's a commercial break reinforcing your need to have a snack."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":994.91,"endTime":995.39,"body":"I mean."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":995.39,"endTime":999.35,"body":"That's that's quite interesting because when I've tried to lose weight before and I, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":999.35,"endTime":1005.32,"body":"I've tried to really get into become disciplined, what I do is I, I give in to my"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1005.32,"endTime":1009.19,"body":"snacking, but I just try to snack on something that's very low calorie."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1009.28,"endTime":1015.25,"body":"So eating raw carrots or other things, you know, similar, similar things."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1015.25,"endTime":1016.87,"body":"So yes, that's where I would snack on."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1016.87,"endTime":1021.28,"body":"So yeah, I would just snack on things that's not really going to cause any so much"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1021.28,"endTime":1021.7,"body":"damage."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1021.7,"endTime":1026.08,"body":"But I think again, bottom line of this, I think as you've identified the very positive"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1026.08,"endTime":1032.89,"body":"message here, is the small number of calories you need to reduce your daily intake by to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1032.89,"endTime":1035.44,"body":"have some sort of tangible effect."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1035.44,"endTime":1037.6,"body":"So a couple of hundred calories."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1037.6,"endTime":1040.72,"body":"What is that? That's a small bagel if that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1040.72,"endTime":1045.01,"body":"Yeah. It's not that difficult to eliminate that number of calories during the day."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1045.01,"endTime":1048.31,"body":"In the UK. That would be a jumbo bag of crisps."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1048.31,"endTime":1051.4,"body":"There you go. There's nothing positive in that bag of crisps either is there."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1051.49,"endTime":1058.06,"body":"No, I mean so just just what is your what is your, your guilty secret snack of choice"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1058.06,"endTime":1058.54,"body":"then."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1058.57,"endTime":1059.04,"body":"Cheese"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1059.07,"endTime":1059.78,"body":"Cheese."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1059.8,"endTime":1067.02,"body":"I love cheese and I think we all know that cheese is laden with fat, it is high calorie."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1067.17,"endTime":1072.15,"body":"I'm certainly not of the opinion that cheese is necessarily bad for you, but you don't"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1072.15,"endTime":1079.71,"body":"need to eat much cheese to be getting 500, 600 calories in a tiny little cube of cheese"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1079.71,"endTime":1081.36,"body":"is about 100 calories."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1081.36,"endTime":1082.62,"body":"But that's my little."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1082.62,"endTime":1085.32,"body":"That is my go to in a stressful moment."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1085.44,"endTime":1091.83,"body":"And you know, if you want to be really extravagant, it's a nice, large, crusty brown"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1091.83,"endTime":1095.34,"body":"bread sandwich with cheese and pickle."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1095.67,"endTime":1097.68,"body":"Delightful. Calorie laden."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1097.92,"endTime":1099.21,"body":"Oh, that's very. That's very Northern Peter."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1099.21,"endTime":1100.02,"body":"That is, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1100.02,"endTime":1100.32,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1100.53,"endTime":1102.27,"body":"Cheese and pickle sandwich."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1103.32,"endTime":1104.49,"body":"Still enjoy my cheese."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1104.49,"endTime":1105.84,"body":"So, what about you?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1105.84,"endTime":1111.63,"body":"Well my current nibble of choice would be a handful of almonds."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1112.35,"endTime":1114.18,"body":"I just love almonds."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1114.18,"endTime":1116.31,"body":"So my almond story is this."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1116.31,"endTime":1117.84,"body":"And I'll keep it very, very brief."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1117.84,"endTime":1120.63,"body":"I was of the same opinion a few years ago."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1120.63,"endTime":1122.01,"body":"Almost ten years ago."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1122.01,"endTime":1125.04,"body":"In fact, California almonds delicious."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1125.04,"endTime":1131.01,"body":"Quite easy to get hold of and they were my go to snack, usually in the car and I really"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1131.01,"endTime":1133.08,"body":"enjoyed them. Thought I was eating healthy food."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1133.08,"endTime":1135.99,"body":"It was providing me with some energy in the middle of the day."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1136.17,"endTime":1139.23,"body":"And then I got kidney stones."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1139.71,"endTime":1149.28,"body":"Nuts are full of oxalate and calcium oxalate kidney stones resulted from my feasting on"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1149.31,"endTime":1151.98,"body":"nuts and especially almonds."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1152.34,"endTime":1154.77,"body":"And you don't want to get kidney stones."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1154.77,"endTime":1157.89,"body":"It's one of the most painful situations that you can."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1157.89,"endTime":1164.46,"body":"Now, I can't 100% say it was because of the almonds, but at that time I was eating a lot"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1164.46,"endTime":1165.69,"body":"of nuts in my diet."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1165.69,"endTime":1173.4,"body":"I used to make smoothies with spinach, which is also extremely high in oxalate and other"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1173.4,"endTime":1177.27,"body":"leafy greens that are high in it as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1177.27,"endTime":1184.77,"body":"And I'm pretty certain that it was my supposedly healthy dietary regime at that time"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1184.77,"endTime":1191.07,"body":"because I haven't stopped eating all those foods, but I've reduced significantly and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1191.07,"endTime":1193.59,"body":"haven't had a repeat of the kidney stones."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1193.95,"endTime":1196.56,"body":"It's just a cautionary warning of."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1196.56,"endTime":1200.88,"body":"And it goes back to what we were talking about a couple of weeks ago about moderation in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1200.88,"endTime":1202.29,"body":"all things, everything."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1202.29,"endTime":1206.25,"body":"Not everyone is susceptible to kidney stones, but I think, you know, you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1206.25,"endTime":1209.31,"body":"put yourself in that kind of situation where where that can happen."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1211.32,"endTime":1216.3,"body":"No, not at all. Well, my other nibbles, bread my wife makes, she's just going back into"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1216.3,"endTime":1221.31,"body":"bread making and she makes really rather nice sourdough focaccias."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1221.31,"endTime":1223.65,"body":"And. Oh, that's just fresh out the oven."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1250.63,"endTime":1252.85,"body":"It goes very, very, very, very quickly."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1252.85,"endTime":1253.78,"body":"It's delicious."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1254.23,"endTime":1257.32,"body":"You're listening to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1257.32,"endTime":1262.48,"body":"Peter Allison is with me, and we're talking about this week's new longevity science."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1262.75,"endTime":1263.76,"body":"Let's move on."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1263.77,"endTime":1266.71,"body":"The secret to living to 100."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1266.74,"endTime":1271.24,"body":"This is a Wall Street Journal article just a few days ago."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1271.24,"endTime":1273.34,"body":"It's not good habits."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1273.3700000000001,"endTime":1277.78,"body":"Good genes matter more the older you get."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1277.81,"endTime":1282.01,"body":"Habits like getting enough sleep, exercising, and eating a healthy diet can help you"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1282.01,"endTime":1285.73,"body":"stave off disease and live longer, they say."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1285.73,"endTime":1293.2,"body":"Yet when it comes to living beyond 90, genetics start to play a trump card, according to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1293.2,"endTime":1298.0,"body":"the researchers. And the thing that really leapt out at me from this article was that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1298.0,"endTime":1303.6,"body":"they say about 25% of your ability to live to 90 is determined by genetics."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1303.6100000000001,"endTime":1304.8700000000001,"body":"This is the professor."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1304.8700000000001,"endTime":1311.5,"body":"Dr. Thomas Perls, professor of medicine at Boston University, leads a study, the New"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1311.5,"endTime":1313.6,"body":"England Centenarian Study."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1313.6,"endTime":1323.56,"body":"But he says by the age of 100, it's roughly 50% genetic, and by around 106, it's 75%"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1323.77,"endTime":1326.1100000000001,"body":"genetic. That is a big leap, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1326.1100000000001,"endTime":1332.8600000000001,"body":"From 25% at 90 to 75% at 106?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1333.25,"endTime":1338.89,"body":"So I think when I was reading this part of it, for me, instantly I start thinking about"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1338.89,"endTime":1344.2,"body":"the longevity of my parents and my grandparents to think, what sort of genes have I got?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1344.2,"endTime":1350.05,"body":"And then I started thinking back about the lessons that I could learn from the"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1350.05,"endTime":1353.38,"body":"perfectionism, the striving for perfectionism, in a way."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1353.38,"endTime":1358.15,"body":"And I think the lesson from that is to enjoy the journey rather than be focused too much"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1358.15,"endTime":1359.41,"body":"on the destination."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1359.41,"endTime":1365.56,"body":"So in this case, maybe one of the one of the messages I could take from this is no matter"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1365.56,"endTime":1369.19,"body":"how much exercise I do, if I haven't got the right genes, I'm not going to be able to"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1369.19,"endTime":1370.6,"body":"punch those levels."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1371.02,"endTime":1376.09,"body":"But maybe then the turnaround for that is to say no, I should be just enjoying my"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1376.09,"endTime":1379.51,"body":"exercise, and I should enjoy the way it makes me feel for the rest of the day, because it"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1379.51,"endTime":1381.49,"body":"does make me feel great for the rest of the day."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1381.52,"endTime":1384.13,"body":"There's no two ways about it, so I should enjoy that."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1384.13,"endTime":1389.17,"body":"And I just take the genes as they come because I've got no control over them."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1389.32,"endTime":1390.52,"body":"I agree with that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1390.52,"endTime":1396.02,"body":"It. Did make me think, though, that essentially what they are saying is that up to the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1396.02,"endTime":1404.33,"body":"age of about 90, our lifestyle, diet, exercise regime, sleep regime has a quite"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1404.33,"endTime":1408.43,"body":"significant impact on our ability to get to that age."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1408.44,"endTime":1414.77,"body":"And then they're saying that after the age of approximately 90, genetics begins to take"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1414.77,"endTime":1419.78,"body":"over, that you have that it's often described as the longevity gene that you can just"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1419.78,"endTime":1424.31,"body":"keep on going. And you hear these stories of 105 year olds who say that they love a glass"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1424.31,"endTime":1427.88,"body":"of whiskey and a and a cigaret every day, and you think, well, why?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1427.88,"endTime":1429.53,"body":"And how can they get to that age?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1429.53,"endTime":1434.84,"body":"It seems that some people are just predisposed to get to a great age despite their"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1434.84,"endTime":1440.63,"body":"lifestyle. But it does tell me that there is a lot we can do, clearly to get to that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1440.63,"endTime":1446.03,"body":"initial great age of 90, which is a fantastic age and perhaps reinforces my enthusiasm to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1446.03,"endTime":1447.05,"body":"keep at it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1447.05,"endTime":1451.49,"body":"And then, yes, and then maybe just joking a little bit here live and let live after the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1451.49,"endTime":1453.71,"body":"age of, of 90 if you get there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1453.71,"endTime":1458.3,"body":"Well, maybe that glass of whiskey and I would draw the line at cigarets, but a glass of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1458.3,"endTime":1461.66,"body":"whiskey and a. Yeah, a couple of almonds might be quite good fun."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1461.66,"endTime":1462.26,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1462.29,"endTime":1463.34,"body":"Do you drink whiskey?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1463.34,"endTime":1464.75,"body":"I do quite like whiskey."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1464.75,"endTime":1468.44,"body":"I drink and again, alcohol perhaps is another conversation for another day."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1468.44,"endTime":1474.02,"body":"But I drink very, very little alcohol these days because it just doesn't it doesn't like"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1474.02,"endTime":1475.46,"body":"me. It makes you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1475.46,"endTime":1476.75,"body":"Which is kind of frustrating."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1476.75,"endTime":1478.79,"body":"I like whiskey, I like red wine."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1478.82,"endTime":1480.29,"body":"The first drink is great."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1480.29,"endTime":1484.6100000000001,"body":"It's usually just wondering if I do have a drink these days, but then after about 30"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1484.6100000000001,"endTime":1487.07,"body":"minutes, after about an hour, the headache starts."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1487.07,"endTime":1489.8,"body":"It's it's clearly not a hangover at that stage."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1489.8,"endTime":1494.3,"body":"You haven't drunk that much alcohol, but it just dulls my senses and it's the dulling of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1494.3,"endTime":1500.93,"body":"the senses. And especially the next morning when I still feel maybe only 75% that I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1500.93,"endTime":1502.4,"body":"really dislike."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1502.43,"endTime":1504.02,"body":"Yeah, I do too."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1504.05,"endTime":1510.08,"body":"To be perfectly honest, I, I don't know how many bottles of wine I've got in the house"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1510.08,"endTime":1519.8700000000001,"body":"40, 50, and I think I've drank two bottles of wine in the last 3 to"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1519.8700000000001,"endTime":1521.45,"body":"4 months."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1521.45,"endTime":1524.3600000000001,"body":"I just don't really touch it."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1524.3600000000001,"endTime":1528.53,"body":"And yet I've got loads of it and I and it's because of the way I feel."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1528.53,"endTime":1529.94,"body":"I'm exactly the same as you."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1530.1200000000001,"endTime":1535.94,"body":"I just, I get the way I respond to it, it's just getting worse and worse and worse."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1535.94,"endTime":1540.47,"body":"And so I just don't like that feeling of being slow unless it's a really nice occasion."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1540.47,"endTime":1544.52,"body":"You know, if my family around and stuff like that, then then maybe, but otherwise I"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1544.52,"endTime":1545.0,"body":"don't."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1545.18,"endTime":1550.94,"body":"I agree with you. I so if on the few occasions that I do drink any alcohol these days, I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1550.94,"endTime":1556.94,"body":"try to make it fairly early in the day, after 6 or 7 in the evening probably isn't going"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1556.94,"endTime":1558.68,"body":"to be much fun for me."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1558.68,"endTime":1564.47,"body":"But if it's a mid afternoon, if it's a barbecue situation or even a lunch when the rest"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1564.47,"endTime":1569.51,"body":"of the day doesn't really matter, that is the time for me to have a quick glass of wine,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1570.2,"endTime":1576.6100000000001,"body":"a quick closing thought, Peter related to this story about genes and growing older."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1576.6200000000001,"endTime":1580.19,"body":"Just I just want to quote you something from the article, which I think is quite"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1580.19,"endTime":1586.28,"body":"inspiring. Chuck Ullman, who is a 97 year old, lives in a retirement community in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1586.31,"endTime":1589.13,"body":"Thousand Oaks, very close to him in California."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1589.34,"endTime":1594.83,"body":"He says he's free of health problems, aside from a sore right shoulder from a recent"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1594.83,"endTime":1596.66,"body":"electric biking accident."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1596.66,"endTime":1598.04,"body":"Yes, I saw that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1598.04,"endTime":1602.06,"body":"97. He has no desire to live to a particular age reflects what you are saying."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1602.06,"endTime":1607.46,"body":"He hopes to live as long as he feels good and can do the things he loves, such as"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1607.49,"endTime":1613.6100000000001,"body":"woodworking, attending political discussion groups and getting dinner with some of his"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1613.6100000000001,"endTime":1615.17,"body":"many friends."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1615.17,"endTime":1617.72,"body":"I think that just sums it all up nicely, doesn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1617.72,"endTime":1618.26,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1618.26,"endTime":1622.01,"body":"I mean, that was yes, that was in one of the papers that we were that we've read."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1622.01,"endTime":1625.73,"body":"One of the things that we've read today that we're talking about the importance of having"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1625.73,"endTime":1630.44,"body":"really good friendship groups, really good circles, and how that that's very beneficial"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1630.44,"endTime":1630.98,"body":"as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1630.98,"endTime":1632.9,"body":"Yeah, I interviewed a lady."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1632.9,"endTime":1634.28,"body":"She she's since passed away."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1634.28,"endTime":1637.94,"body":"She was 102 at the time and very healthy."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1637.97,"endTime":1639.53,"body":"Similar sort of attitude to this."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1639.53,"endTime":1645.32,"body":"She had a book club with some of her girls, her girls being her friends in their 90s."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1645.35,"endTime":1649.04,"body":"They used to read a book and then choose a restaurant, go to the restaurant and discuss"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1649.04,"endTime":1653.48,"body":"the book. That was her life and the friendships she had."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1653.51,"endTime":1658.25,"body":"Often long term friendships within this group were what kept her going."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1658.25,"endTime":1662.93,"body":"She was physically okay as well, but it was the social side of just meeting people and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1662.93,"endTime":1664.34,"body":"having something to look forward to."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1664.34,"endTime":1667.6100000000001,"body":"I think that is one of the most crucial things about being very, very old and that is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1667.6100000000001,"endTime":1671.54,"body":"always having something tomorrow, next week, next month to look forward to."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1671.54,"endTime":1677.06,"body":"Yeah, I think there is something to be said for having lots of human interactions, because"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1677.06,"endTime":1681.68,"body":"if you interact with lots of human beings, you have to realize that you have to moderate"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1681.68,"endTime":1684.1100000000001,"body":"your own thoughts and your own behaviors."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1684.1100000000001,"endTime":1690.1100000000001,"body":"Because to be congenial, to be agreeable, you have to just say, well, you have to back"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1690.1100000000001,"endTime":1695.92,"body":"off on some. Things and somehow or other, that sort of level of moderated balance in"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1695.92,"endTime":1699.82,"body":"one's own behavior and capacity to opinionate."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1700.06,"endTime":1702.01,"body":"That's a story of moderation, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1702.01,"endTime":1706.6,"body":"In itself, learning to be moderate oneself, to be agreeable, to be able to get on with"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1706.6,"endTime":1711.73,"body":"other people and allow other people to be right, and to let other you know and accept"},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1711.73,"endTime":1713.6200000000001,"body":"that perhaps you're wrong at times."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1713.74,"endTime":1717.1,"body":"I mean, that's a that's a that's also part of the story of moderation, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1717.1,"endTime":1720.55,"body":"Yeah, it is. It is a theme we keep on coming back to."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1720.55,"endTime":1723.16,"body":"Peter enjoyed this conversation as ever."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1723.16,"endTime":1725.34,"body":"We will talk again very soon."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1725.35,"endTime":1726.57,"body":"Get that heating turned up."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1726.58,"endTime":1727.84,"body":"Yeah. Will do. All right."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1727.8700000000001,"endTime":1728.95,"body":"Take care. All right."},{"speaker":"Peter Allison","startTime":1728.98,"endTime":1729.7,"body":"Thank you. Same to you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1734.8600000000001,"endTime":1737.71,"body":"The LLAMA podcast is a Healthspan mMdia production."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1737.71,"endTime":1740.6,"body":"We'll be back with another conversation very soon."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1740.6200000000001,"endTime":1743.1100000000001,"body":"In the meantime, thanks so much for listening."},{"speaker":"Disclaimer","startTime":1743.1100000000001,"endTime":1748.18,"body":"This podcast is for informational, educational and entertainment purposes only."},{"speaker":"Disclaimer","startTime":1748.21,"endTime":1750.67,"body":"We do not offer medical advice."},{"speaker":"Disclaimer","startTime":1750.7,"endTime":1756.04,"body":"If you have health concerns of any kind or you are considering adopting a new diet or"},{"speaker":"Disclaimer","startTime":1756.04,"endTime":1759.79,"body":"exercise regime, you should first consult your doctor."}]}