{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1.68,"endTime":3.9,"body":"I recently had a full body scan."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3.9,"endTime":9.15,"body":"In this room. You can hear the sound of the MRI machine behind me, a large tube that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":9.15,"endTime":15.51,"body":"contains powerful magnets to peep inside my body, head to toe, to screen for possible"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":15.51,"endTime":20.67,"body":"medical problems, try to head off or get an early warning about potentially life"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":20.67,"endTime":22.02,"body":"threatening conditions."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":23.31,"endTime":30.3,"body":"The result is a series of very detailed images covering every organ, every nook and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":30.3,"endTime":33.39,"body":"cranny of my 62 year old body."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":33.39,"endTime":35.04,"body":"But is it worthwhile?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":35.07,"endTime":39.84,"body":"Is it worth the money to have such a procedure, even if you're not experiencing any"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":39.84,"endTime":45.21,"body":"symptoms? And what about the angst and worry it could cause you if they find something?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":45.21,"endTime":49.83,"body":"We now have patients that come in routinely every year or two, and it's not a scary thing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":49.83,"endTime":53.04,"body":"It's additional knowledge to help them live their lives better."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":53.04,"endTime":57.36,"body":"The likelihood of anything really crazy coming up is quite low and intentionally so."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":57.36,"endTime":61.08,"body":"If you do it routinely, they know that if anything's caught, it's going to be caught very"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":61.08,"endTime":62.1,"body":"early because it wasn't."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":62.1,"endTime":64.29,"body":"There was nothing on the scan the year before."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":64.32,"endTime":68.43,"body":"The challenge is getting over that initial, I would say hesitation."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":68.52,"endTime":73.32,"body":"Once you do that, the hope is that you can sort of outsource a lot of your anxiety or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":73.32,"endTime":77.31,"body":"concerns about health to companies like Prenuvo and other people that are operating in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":77.31,"endTime":78.51,"body":"the preventive health space."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":78.51,"endTime":84.21,"body":"Andrew Lacy is the founder and CEO of Prenuvo, a company that offers a one-hour screening"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":84.21,"endTime":90.42,"body":"using MRI - magnetic resonance imaging - with the goal of catching abnormalities while"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":90.42,"endTime":93.03,"body":"they're at a stage that can be successfully treated."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":93.27,"endTime":98.34,"body":"It's a practice that has many critics, with some health professionals saying there isn't"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":98.34,"endTime":104.19,"body":"enough evidence to justify screening for patients with no clinical symptoms or a family"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":104.19,"endTime":106.53,"body":"history suggesting they could be at risk."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":106.53,"endTime":108.12,"body":"We'll look at those arguments."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":113.96,"endTime":118.94,"body":"Hello again. Welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast, I'm Peter Bowes."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":118.94,"endTime":124.16,"body":"This is where we explore the science and stories behind human longevity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":124.16,"endTime":126.23,"body":"Andrew, thanks for joining us."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":126.32,"endTime":127.73,"body":"Hi Peter, it's great to be here."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":127.73,"endTime":129.14,"body":"Looking forward to diving in."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":129.68,"endTime":136.25,"body":"Good to talk to you. And we first met a few weeks ago now at the Live Long Summit in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":136.25,"endTime":142.67,"body":"Florida. We took part in a panel on this subject you invited me to at your facility here"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":142.67,"endTime":144.47,"body":"in Los Angeles to have a scan."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":144.47,"endTime":148.46,"body":"And just for full disclosure, that was done at your expense."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":148.46,"endTime":150.83,"body":"That was a complimentary scan for me."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":150.83,"endTime":152.18,"body":"I've since had my results."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":152.18,"endTime":156.95,"body":"We'll discuss my results in a few moments time, but I think it's probably best."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":156.95,"endTime":161.99,"body":"First of all, just to talk a little bit about you and how you came into this business, I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":161.99,"endTime":165.35,"body":"guess the first, perhaps important thing to say is that you are not a doctor."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":165.35,"endTime":166.94,"body":"You are a businessman."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":166.94,"endTime":170.51,"body":"So I'm just curious what your background is and what brought you to this."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":171.23,"endTime":172.97,"body":"Yeah, no, I'm happy to share that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":172.97,"endTime":177.62,"body":"In fact, it's so interesting as I start to travel to some of these longevity summits, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":177.62,"endTime":181.91,"body":"sometimes feel a little bit like I'm the, I'm sort of the odd duck."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":181.91,"endTime":189.62,"body":"I, you know, I'm not a Iron Man running triathlete, performing six pack wearing,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":189.62,"endTime":191.63,"body":"longevity, advocate."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":191.63,"endTime":193.28,"body":"I'm a pretty average person."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":193.28,"endTime":199.94,"body":"And how I got into this was, you know, I entered my 40s and like many of your listeners"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":199.94,"endTime":205.25,"body":"can probably relate to, I lived a life where I was working too hard."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":205.28,"endTime":209.54,"body":"I was not exercising enough, I wasn't eating well enough, and I was doing all this in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":209.54,"endTime":213.47,"body":"service of a future that I sort of automatically expected I was going to be part of."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":213.47,"endTime":217.04,"body":"And I remember waking up one day and looking in the mirror and asking myself the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":217.04,"endTime":220.88,"body":"question, wow, you know, like, is all this effort and work going to be worth it?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":220.88,"endTime":222.95,"body":"Will I be around? How do I know?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":223.07,"endTime":228.8,"body":"Just the impact that the way I was living my life was having on my underlying physiology."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":228.8,"endTime":230.81,"body":"And so I went in search of answers."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":230.81,"endTime":235.91,"body":"And that journey led me to a very small clinic in Vancouver, Canada, that were doing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":235.91,"endTime":238.58,"body":"these very detailed whole body scans."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":239.39,"endTime":247.19,"body":"I went and did that scan, the same scan that you did, last week and sat down afterwards"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":247.19,"endTime":249.38,"body":"and went through every single organ in my body."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":249.38,"endTime":252.59,"body":"And I felt like I was meeting myself for the first time."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":253.76,"endTime":259.85,"body":"I learned that there was nothing crazy serious that was happening under the skin."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":259.85,"endTime":265.1,"body":"But I learned a lot of practical information about how I can make small adjustments to my"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":265.1,"endTime":270.56,"body":"lifestyle that hopefully will change the trajectory of my life."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":270.56,"endTime":275.33,"body":"And as soon as I went through this process myself, I, I sort of fell so in love with it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":275.33,"endTime":280.46,"body":"that I just wanted to work harder, even still, to bring this to as many people as"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":280.46,"endTime":285.02,"body":"possible and that, you know, the fruits of that labor is Prenuvo and the clinics that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":285.02,"endTime":286.52,"body":"we're building across North America."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":287.48,"endTime":290.3,"body":"And what is your professional background?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":290.3,"endTime":294.92,"body":"As I say, you're not medically trained, but you've been in business for a long time."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":294.92,"endTime":298.58,"body":"In other words, what brought you to the point that you were able to launch your own"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":298.58,"endTime":299.84,"body":"business doing this?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":300.02,"endTime":304.43,"body":"Well, you know, part of being an entrepreneur is just believing that you can, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":304.43,"endTime":308.48,"body":"build something new, that you can bring a perspective that's different and unique."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":308.48,"endTime":313.1,"body":"And I've been fortunate enough to have built several different types of companies, never"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":313.1,"endTime":314.48,"body":"in the same industry."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":314.93,"endTime":324.29,"body":"I was really personally looking for a endeavor where the KPI of success was not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":324.29,"endTime":329.72,"body":"necessarily just how big the company was, but in the case of Nuvo, how many lives that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":329.72,"endTime":335.96,"body":"were potentially saving and of course, this is a medical business, so and I'm not a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":335.96,"endTime":342.89,"body":"medical person. So I've have a wonderful team of medical experts that help us bring these"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":342.89,"endTime":344.3,"body":"scans to as many people as possible."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":344.3,"endTime":350.9,"body":"But, you know, for the most part, my job is to make sure that the company is well funded"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":350.9,"endTime":355.76,"body":"enough so we can continue to grow and and expand as fast as we're able to as a business."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":356.3,"endTime":357.83,"body":"The company's called Prenuvo."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":357.86,"endTime":359.66,"body":"What does Prenuvo mean?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":361.78,"endTime":371.74,"body":"It was originally a name that was based around a person whose name was Renu, actually"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":371.74,"endTime":376.0,"body":"a friend of the founding radiologist who had passed away from late diagnosed cancer."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":376.0,"endTime":379.36,"body":"So it was sort of a alliteration of prevent another Renu."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":379.36,"endTime":383.44,"body":"So, it was meaningful for us as a company."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":383.47,"endTime":389.47,"body":"And spoke to what it was that we were hoping to achieve as a business."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":389.89,"endTime":391.9,"body":"Just give me idea of the scale of the business."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":391.9,"endTime":395.59,"body":"Now, I mentioned that I went to your facility here in Los Angeles."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":395.83,"endTime":399.49,"body":"Sure. We have ten locations right now, across North America."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":399.85,"endTime":405.55,"body":"We are looking to build another 10 or 15 over the next 18 months."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":405.55,"endTime":411.04,"body":"Most of those clinics are in large metropolitan areas like San Francisco, L.A., New York,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":411.04,"endTime":414.49,"body":"D.C., Chicago, Miami, and so on."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":414.55,"endTime":418.99,"body":"But obviously, there are a lot of people for whom these scans can be very beneficial that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":418.99,"endTime":422.38,"body":"don't live in those cities. And that's why we're working to scale as fast as we can."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":422.56,"endTime":424.24,"body":"So let's get into the detail."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":424.24,"endTime":426.19,"body":"What is an MRI?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":427.72,"endTime":431.71,"body":"Wow. Straight out with the the physics question."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":431.95,"endTime":436.27,"body":"So obviously an MRI is a very big magnet."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":436.3,"endTime":444.7,"body":"When we place you inside that magnet, we are, we send these EF (sic) pulses into your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":444.7,"endTime":450.19,"body":"body, and that orients the hydrogen atoms in our bodies."},{"speaker":"[Ed note","startTime":450.19,"endTime":451.54,"body":"the term, as intended, is RF pulses - 'radio frequency'] And most all of the"},{"speaker":"[Ed note","startTime":451.54,"endTime":454.15,"body":"components of our body have hydrogen some where in them."},{"speaker":"[Ed note","startTime":454.15,"endTime":458.68,"body":"And then as we switch off that pulse that relaxes back in the direction of the magnet,"},{"speaker":"[Ed note","startTime":458.68,"endTime":465.49,"body":"and we are able to pick up a very, very tiny signal of that happening, from these coils"},{"speaker":"[Ed note","startTime":465.49,"endTime":470.92,"body":"that we put on people's bodies, and we're able to turn that radio frequency data into"},{"speaker":"[Ed note","startTime":470.92,"endTime":472.27,"body":"images of the body."},{"speaker":"[Ed note","startTime":472.27,"endTime":479.37,"body":"And these images are sensitive for anything containing hydrogen, so fat, blood, fluid,"},{"speaker":"[Ed note","startTime":479.37,"endTime":481.66,"body":"proteinaceous tissue."},{"speaker":"[Ed note","startTime":481.66,"endTime":486.61,"body":"And so we're able to take these very, very detailed images of the entire body and filter"},{"speaker":"[Ed note","startTime":486.61,"endTime":489.58,"body":"for all of the different types of tissue we expect to see in there."},{"speaker":"[Ed note","startTime":489.58,"endTime":497.26,"body":"And this enables us to look in each organ in tremendous detail and be able to diagnose"},{"speaker":"[Ed note","startTime":497.26,"endTime":500.38,"body":"most anything that we can see physiologically in the body."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":500.74,"endTime":503.23,"body":"And of course, MRIs have been around for a long time."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":503.23,"endTime":506.11,"body":"There's nothing particularly new in that technology."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":506.11,"endTime":509.11,"body":"Just give me an assessment of the safety factors here."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":509.11,"endTime":513.31,"body":"I think that is a big concern of a lot of people when they go into something like this."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":513.31,"endTime":518.35,"body":"And maybe just the physical experience is is quite daunting for some people disappearing"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":518.35,"endTime":519.79,"body":"into that long tube."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":519.79,"endTime":521.59,"body":"But how safe are they?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":521.89,"endTime":523.09,"body":"Well, they're very safe."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":523.09,"endTime":526.93,"body":"In fact, you could do one every day if you had an occasion to do it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":526.93,"endTime":531.43,"body":"There's no radiation, unlike an x ray or a CT machine."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":531.52,"endTime":535.0,"body":"We don't use ionizing radiation to collect these images."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":535.0,"endTime":540.04,"body":"And then secondly, unlike many other medical imaging exams, we don't use a contrast agent"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":540.04,"endTime":544.48,"body":"either. So in the case of MRI, that would be a heavy metal contrast that we would inject"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":544.48,"endTime":545.68,"body":"into your body."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":545.68,"endTime":549.22,"body":"In order to visualize the blood vessels a little bit easier."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":549.55,"endTime":554.74,"body":"There are great diagnostic reasons to do contrast imaging, but when it comes to screening"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":554.74,"endTime":559.6,"body":"an exam that we hope people will do once every year or two, we don't want that heavy"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":559.6,"endTime":560.95,"body":"metal to accumulate in the body."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":560.95,"endTime":565.48,"body":"And our principle generally is we want a screening exam that's 100% safe that you could"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":565.48,"endTime":568.12,"body":"do as frequently as you have a medical reason to do it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":569.07,"endTime":573.03,"body":"And I mentioned this is quite literally a head to toe scan."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":573.03,"endTime":580.14,"body":"You're screening the entire body, but to greater or lesser extents, what can it screen"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":580.14,"endTime":584.73,"body":"for? Because MRIs are better at some things than other things, aren't they?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":585.27,"endTime":588.87,"body":"Yeah. The MRIs are generally really good at resolving soft tissue."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":589.2,"endTime":595.11,"body":"And what they're not so great at is resolving bone or calcium."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":595.11,"endTime":598.44,"body":"In fact, calcium is completely invisible on an MRI machine."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":598.44,"endTime":604.32,"body":"So if someone has a large kidney stone, we see it through the absence of signal on an"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":604.32,"endTime":606.18,"body":"MRI. It's almost like a black hole."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":606.6,"endTime":612.69,"body":"And so this is why if you break your arm, you get an x ray, because x ray is very good at"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":612.69,"endTime":615.45,"body":"seeing that bone. A CT is a spinning x ray."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":615.45,"endTime":618.96,"body":"So that also works very well for bone and is used for other organs as well."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":618.96,"endTime":622.8,"body":"But there's nothing better than MRI when it comes to resolving the soft tissue."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":622.8,"endTime":628.74,"body":"And of course in the soft tissue is where all of the problems that we can have, um, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":628.74,"endTime":629.94,"body":"know, are manifest."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":629.94,"endTime":636.78,"body":"So cancers tend to begin in the organs and only at a later stage do they move to bone."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":637.23,"endTime":643.23,"body":"Obviously there are many other sort of chronic conditions, kidney disease, liver disease,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":643.59,"endTime":644.7,"body":"etc., etc."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":644.7,"endTime":645.87,"body":"that are in the organs."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":645.87,"endTime":649.59,"body":"And so MRI has always been the modality of choice."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":649.86,"endTime":653.85,"body":"For a screening the challenge has been that's just been very, very slow."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":653.85,"endTime":656.04,"body":"And what Prenuvo does is speed that up."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":656.19,"endTime":658.02,"body":"You know, an order of magnitude."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":658.71,"endTime":664.77,"body":"So for some people who might be concerned about calcification, their arteries, their"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":664.77,"endTime":670.23,"body":"cardiovascular health, this isn't necessarily the screening plan for them."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":670.41,"endTime":677.67,"body":"Correct. No. We we often recommend folks, particularly when you're, you get into your late"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":677.67,"endTime":681.39,"body":"40s, if you haven't already, perhaps to go get a calcium score to make sure that you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":681.39,"endTime":691.02,"body":"not depositing -- you know, you don't have calcification in the arteries"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":691.02,"endTime":697.44,"body":"supplying the heart. And so that's probably the main area where MRI struggles."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":697.44,"endTime":699.0,"body":"We can resolve the heart very well."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":699.0,"endTime":701.97,"body":"And we take very beautiful pictures and videos of the heart beating."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":701.97,"endTime":705.84,"body":"The challenge with MRI is because the heart is beating and because you are breathing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":705.84,"endTime":710.49,"body":"There's just a lot of movement to have to gait for, and that makes MRI very slow, whereas"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":710.49,"endTime":713.58,"body":"CT, being a lot faster, does a much better job of the heart."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":713.79,"endTime":721.47,"body":"So tell me typically what you do find in people and the range of potential problems that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":721.47,"endTime":726.27,"body":"they could reveal, from potentially fatal conditions to things that you might just want"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":726.27,"endTime":731.61,"body":"to keep an eye on, things that are just intrinsically there as part of our bodies that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":731.61,"endTime":735.21,"body":"are maybe will show up on a scan, but are not going to cause us any problems."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":735.36,"endTime":737.64,"body":"Sure, there's really three categories of findings."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":737.64,"endTime":741.36,"body":"The first are potentially life threatening conditions."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":741.36,"endTime":746.67,"body":"And here I would say the vast majority are cancers and various types of aneurysms."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":746.67,"endTime":751.68,"body":"You can get aneurysms not just in your brain, but also aortic aneurysms, abdominal"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":751.68,"endTime":756.12,"body":"aneurysms. And these are things that if they burst, they often, more often than not tend"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":756.12,"endTime":762.57,"body":"to be fatal. We find cancer and aneurysms in about 3 to 4% of people, so about 1 in 20 to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":762.57,"endTime":766.05,"body":"1 in 25, depending on the market and the age of the patient."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":766.89,"endTime":772.95,"body":"The vast majority of those cancers are stage one, which means that they're often times"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":772.95,"endTime":778.65,"body":"resectable and, you know, treatable with a much higher probability of a successful"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":778.65,"endTime":784.5,"body":"outcome, including cancers, that there are no screening modalities for, like ovarian or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":784.5,"endTime":786.73,"body":"pancreatic cancer."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":786.73,"endTime":791.55,"body":"The second category are things that we consider serious enough that we want you to pay"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":791.55,"endTime":796.53,"body":"attention to, because these are conditions that might evolve into a chronic,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":796.59,"endTime":801.84,"body":"debilitating medical issue in the future."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":801.84,"endTime":810.06,"body":"So things that fall into this category are medical conditions like fatty liver, severe"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":810.06,"endTime":817.98,"body":"spinal issues, small vessel ischemia, which tells us that there's something going on with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":817.98,"endTime":822.57,"body":"the plumbing, so you maybe have a cardiovascular issue, and that's affecting the blood"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":822.57,"endTime":823.74,"body":"supply to the brain."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":823.74,"endTime":828.15,"body":"So there's any number of these conditions that you should pay attention to because they're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":828.15,"endTime":831.75,"body":"important. And we find those in around 10 to 15% of patients."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":831.93,"endTime":835.83,"body":"And then the vast majority of other patients, what we give is peace of mind that there's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":835.83,"endTime":837.81,"body":"nothing going on under the skin."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":837.81,"endTime":843.54,"body":"And oftentimes some incidental findings that are useful to know but are not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":881.0999999999999,"endTime":886.26,"body":"medically relevant. And these range from benign conditions like cysts or hemangiomas,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":886.26,"endTime":887.8800000000001,"body":"which is good to know they're benign."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":887.8800000000001,"endTime":894.0999999999999,"body":"If someone ever finds them later on, you may be avoid additional testing or biopsy or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":894.0999999999999,"endTime":899.0999999999999,"body":"congenital issues like people that don't realize they're born with only one functioning"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":899.0999999999999,"endTime":907.0799999999999,"body":"kidney or they might notice we've found women that have double uteri, for example."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":907.4100000000001,"endTime":914.6400000000001,"body":"There's obviously we're all very unique and there's a lot of unique, anatomy inside all"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":914.6400000000001,"endTime":918.1800000000001,"body":"of us that oftentimes is not necessarily medically relevant but is good to know."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":918.9300000000001,"endTime":924.24,"body":"And what do you find is the main motivation for people to do this kind of scan?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":924.24,"endTime":930.1800000000001,"body":"Is it a preventative tool in the box that they just want to prevent, as you've just"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":930.1800000000001,"endTime":934.56,"body":"described, perhaps conditions that could be very harmful in the future?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":934.56,"endTime":939.21,"body":"Or is it because they're experiencing a symptom, and perhaps they've been recommended by"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":939.21,"endTime":941.8800000000001,"body":"a doctor to have this kind of full body scan?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":941.8800000000001,"endTime":943.8299999999999,"body":"What is the main motivation?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":944.0699999999999,"endTime":948.75,"body":"Well, I would say the biggest misconception about these scans is that this the sort of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":948.75,"endTime":956.01,"body":"market for this are young, worried well, life, lifestyle and longevity optimizers."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":956.01,"endTime":958.1400000000001,"body":"The healthy wealthy as they're sometimes...?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":958.1400000000001,"endTime":961.8900000000001,"body":"The healthy wealthy, and the vast majority people that fit in that category do come in and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":961.8900000000001,"endTime":966.5999999999999,"body":"get screening. So I'm not saying this is not a small segment for us, but I would say the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":966.5999999999999,"endTime":971.3699999999999,"body":"two largest segments are, first of all, patients that might have had cancer and they're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":971.3699999999999,"endTime":974.52,"body":"worried about coming back or have a family history of disease."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":974.52,"endTime":978.3599999999999,"body":"And for these folks, not being screened is causing them anxiety."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":978.3599999999999,"endTime":982.4100000000001,"body":"Not knowing the status of their health is concerning to them."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":982.44,"endTime":986.22,"body":"And then the second category are people that have these indeterminate findings."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":986.22,"endTime":988.77,"body":"So these are folks that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":989.6300000000001,"endTime":994.3399999999999,"body":"You know, they might have migraines periodically or they might, `women that have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":994.3399999999999,"endTime":998.27,"body":"abdominal pain and they're struggling to get the health system to actually do testing to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":998.27,"endTime":999.44,"body":"figure out what's going on."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":999.44,"endTime":1001.3,"body":"And they sort of come to us."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1001.9300000000001,"endTime":1003.0699999999999,"body":"To sort of House M.D."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1003.0999999999999,"endTime":1006.73,"body":"the thing and figure out exactly what's going what is actually the issue with their"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1006.73,"endTime":1009.04,"body":"health so that they can get treatment a lot faster."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1009.04,"endTime":1014.56,"body":"And those two use cases, in some ways, are the two largest use cases that we have."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1014.56,"endTime":1018.8499999999999,"body":"And speak to the notion that really health is important for everyone."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1018.8499999999999,"endTime":1024.07,"body":"There's a lot of people that, again, don't have six packs and aren't, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1024.07,"endTime":1028.18,"body":"triathletes that for which they want to make sure that they can live a long and healthy"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1028.18,"endTime":1030.82,"body":"life and they make use of these services."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1030.82,"endTime":1033.76,"body":"What about the and I heard a lot of people discuss this."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1033.76,"endTime":1039.07,"body":"What about the anxiety factor that goes into going through a scan like this?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1039.07,"endTime":1043.39,"body":"And clearly there's a level of anxiety between the scan and getting the results."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1043.39,"endTime":1048.64,"body":"But the results themselves, and especially those results that are inconclusive, that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1048.64,"endTime":1053.44,"body":"perhaps need some follow up that may not be serious but could potentially be a problem in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1053.44,"endTime":1058.96,"body":"the future that is going to, to greater or lesser extent, create anxiety for individuals."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1058.96,"endTime":1064.3,"body":"And I've heard some people say they literally went through hell worrying about what had"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1064.3,"endTime":1067.72,"body":"been found before it could be conclusively diagnosed."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1067.72,"endTime":1077.1399999999999,"body":"How, as a provider, do you deal with that and guide people and advise people how to cope"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1077.1399999999999,"endTime":1080.29,"body":"with that mental anguish that a lot of people could feel?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1080.29,"endTime":1086.1399999999999,"body":"Well, I think this question of anxiety is not really something that's limited to Prenuvo"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1086.1399999999999,"endTime":1087.46,"body":"and the screening that we're doing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1087.46,"endTime":1090.4299999999998,"body":"I mean, any screening exam comes with a certain level of anxiety."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1090.4299999999998,"endTime":1091.6299999999999,"body":"And we see this."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1091.6299999999999,"endTime":1096.7,"body":"I mean, we've seen this in studies for mammogram, for example, or colonoscopy or lung"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1096.7,"endTime":1097.78,"body":"cancer screening."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1097.78,"endTime":1103.1799999999998,"body":"And these are standard of care screenings where we've decided that in spite of that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1103.1799999999998,"endTime":1106.8999999999999,"body":"anxiety, you know, these tests are worthwhile."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1106.8999999999999,"endTime":1108.19,"body":"They save lives."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1108.34,"endTime":1109.51,"body":"At the same time."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1109.51,"endTime":1113.4099999999999,"body":"Really, we have to start thinking and evaluating, you know, where does this anxiety come"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1113.4099999999999,"endTime":1120.22,"body":"from? Why is it that, you know, I don't have anxiety about taking my car to go get a, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1120.22,"endTime":1122.9199999999998,"body":"know, a 500 point checkup on it?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1122.9199999999998,"endTime":1126.31,"body":"But I do have anxiety about going to get a big checkup on my health."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1126.31,"endTime":1128.44,"body":"So what has created that anxiety."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1128.44,"endTime":1133.3899999999999,"body":"And I'll put it to you that the source of that anxiety is our reactive health care"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1133.3899999999999,"endTime":1138.97,"body":"system, because you only enter the health care system when there's something very wrong"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1138.97,"endTime":1147.4299999999998,"body":"with you. And any medical diagnosis is in and of itself, you know, concerning worrying,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1147.4299999999998,"endTime":1152.47,"body":"life threatening, expensive, poor probability of a great outcome."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1152.47,"endTime":1157.1499999999999,"body":"And so we've been trained to think about health issues and disease."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1157.99,"endTime":1160.06,"body":"As something that's horrible and scary."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1160.06,"endTime":1165.04,"body":"And I think if anything, the world that we're trying to create at Prenuvo is one where"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1165.04,"endTime":1166.06,"body":"it's affirming."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1166.06,"endTime":1171.55,"body":"We catch things, Everything early, you know, we focus on keeping the engine running."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1171.55,"endTime":1176.95,"body":"So all we need are oil changes and, you know, maybe being told not to ride the brakes as"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1176.95,"endTime":1181.8999999999999,"body":"heavy as we have been and versus having to like get the transmission changed out, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1181.8999999999999,"endTime":1188.8,"body":"know, when our car sort of stops working and and I think that's a much more I mean,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1188.8,"endTime":1192.9099999999999,"body":"that's a world that I want to live in where, you know, I'm in control and I'm not scared"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1192.9099999999999,"endTime":1196.54,"body":"because I know that I'm catching everything early when I can do something about it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1197.35,"endTime":1203.74,"body":"One of the phrases that is often used is 'false positive.' And we've kind of covered this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1203.74,"endTime":1208.81,"body":"already, but that is finding things that that may be a problem that needs some further"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1208.81,"endTime":1213.01,"body":"diagnostic testing that actually turn out not to be an issue at all."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1213.19,"endTime":1214.51,"body":"That's my understanding."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1214.51,"endTime":1219.01,"body":"You tell me, though, what is your definition of a false positive?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1219.01,"endTime":1224.74,"body":"And how do you explain that to people and help them to move on from it?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1224.74,"endTime":1230.08,"body":"Well, it's such a weird, it's a sort of a weird expression in the context of screening."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1230.08,"endTime":1232.76,"body":"Right? Because we are."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1232.76,"endTime":1235.81,"body":"There are many conditions where we can ultimately diagnose it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1235.81,"endTime":1238.9299999999998,"body":"We're gold standard. So things like fatty liver, you don't really need to go and get"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1238.9299999999998,"endTime":1245.08,"body":"another test. But many things like cancer, we don't definitively diagnose it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1245.11,"endTime":1247.72,"body":"We risk stratify everything that we see."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1247.81,"endTime":1252.01,"body":"So we see a lesion in someone's liver and we say, okay, this is because of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1252.01,"endTime":1253.3,"body":"characteristics of this lesion."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1253.3,"endTime":1255.94,"body":"This is this is highly likely to be benign."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1255.94,"endTime":1259.1499999999999,"body":"And you know, the best course of action here is to just check again next year when you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1259.1499999999999,"endTime":1264.94,"body":"get a scan. Or this is, you know, highly likely to be concerning, you absolutely should"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1264.94,"endTime":1268.84,"body":"go and follow up with a specialist to get this further checked out."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1268.84,"endTime":1275.05,"body":"So so the real question is, you know, how much of that further investigation leads to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1275.05,"endTime":1281.08,"body":"dead ends as opposed to, you know, diagnoses that help save lives?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1281.08,"endTime":1284.47,"body":"I'm not even sure which outcome I'm sort of rooting for, because obviously, you hope that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1284.47,"endTime":1288.46,"body":"if you find something concerning that, you know, it ends up being, you know, a dead end"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1288.46,"endTime":1294.0,"body":"for the patient. But I would say these."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1294.0,"endTime":1297.48,"body":"Any medical image test has a certain level of false positives."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1297.48,"endTime":1301.26,"body":"The more you try to push the sensitivity of the test, the more you pick up things that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1301.26,"endTime":1303.75,"body":"ultimately aren't medical conditions."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1303.75,"endTime":1306.96,"body":"And so any test, you're balancing these two factors."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1306.96,"endTime":1311.1,"body":"How sensitive do I want to be and how specific do I want to be for the things that I'm"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1311.1,"endTime":1312.36,"body":"able to diagnose?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1312.36,"endTime":1317.79,"body":"And, you know, these have been studied, they've been studied by us internally."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1317.79,"endTime":1319.9199999999998,"body":"They've been studied internationally."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1320.01,"endTime":1325.86,"body":"In fact, there was a big meta analysis that just got published a few months ago where we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1325.86,"endTime":1330.06,"body":"found that indeterminate findings from whole body exams are around 16%."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1330.06,"endTime":1333.4199999999998,"body":"And this compares favorably to standard of care screening."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1333.4199999999998,"endTime":1338.22,"body":"So we don't think that there's a higher rate of false positives here than other imaging"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1338.25,"endTime":1340.3799999999999,"body":"tests that are already part of standard of care."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1340.3799999999999,"endTime":1345.3899999999999,"body":"And we continue to work to establish evidence to prove that to the medical establishment."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1346.35,"endTime":1350.1299999999999,"body":"Well, I mean, you've hit on exactly the point that I was coming to that the medical"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1350.1299999999999,"endTime":1354.9299999999998,"body":"establishment doesn't seem to be convinced yet in terms of the evidence."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1354.9299999999998,"endTime":1360.51,"body":"And I just want to read you a statement from the American College of Radiology."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1360.51,"endTime":1365.6699999999998,"body":"This is a statement they released last year outlining their position."},{"speaker":"It says","startTime":1365.6699999999998,"endTime":1371.49,"body":"\"The American College of Radiology, the ACR at this time does not believe there"},{"speaker":"It says","startTime":1371.49,"endTime":1377.19,"body":"is sufficient evidence to justify recommending total body screening for patients with no"},{"speaker":"It says","startTime":1377.19,"endTime":1383.1,"body":"clinical symptoms, risk factors or a family history suggesting underlying disease or"},{"speaker":"It says","startTime":1383.1,"endTime":1384.51,"body":"serious injury."},{"speaker":"It says","startTime":1384.51,"endTime":1389.61,"body":"To date,\" - the statement goes on - \"there is no documented evidence that total body"},{"speaker":"It says","startTime":1389.61,"endTime":1394.59,"body":"screening is cost efficient or effective in prolonging life."},{"speaker":"It says","startTime":1394.62,"endTime":1400.26,"body":"In addition, the ACR is concerned that such procedures will lead to the identification of"},{"speaker":"It says","startTime":1400.26,"endTime":1406.1699999999998,"body":"numerous nonspecific findings that will not ultimately improve patients health, but will"},{"speaker":"It says","startTime":1406.1699999999998,"endTime":1412.62,"body":"result in unnecessary follow up testing and procedures, as well as significant expense."},{"speaker":"It says","startTime":1412.62,"endTime":1417.81,"body":"The ACR will continue to monitor scientific studies concerning the utility of screening"},{"speaker":"It says","startTime":1417.84,"endTime":1425.97,"body":"total body MRI.\" So that is a statement from a body representing radiologists who as a"},{"speaker":"It says","startTime":1425.97,"endTime":1430.1699999999998,"body":"profession, you would think would benefit if more people were having scans like this."},{"speaker":"It says","startTime":1430.1699999999998,"endTime":1431.9099999999999,"body":"What's your response to it?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1434.31,"endTime":1437.22,"body":"Well, it's a big sort of nothing statement, to be perfectly honest."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1437.22,"endTime":1443.49,"body":"I mean, you know, saying - the question I guess you have to ask is when folks are asking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1443.49,"endTime":1450.03,"body":"for evidence, what evidence are we looking for generally and with any test where you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1450.03,"endTime":1454.05,"body":"evaluating whether the screening test is something that you want to apply at the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1454.05,"endTime":1458.55,"body":"population level, you're typically looking for all causes, reduction in mortality."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1458.82,"endTime":1464.82,"body":"And when you when you are assessing all cause reduction mortality, you automatically and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1464.82,"endTime":1471.71,"body":"instantly require something like a 20 or 30 year study.So."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1473.02,"endTime":1479.23,"body":"Just as there is no yet definitive evidence of all causes reduction in mortality, there"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1479.23,"endTime":1484.09,"body":"is no definitive evidence that these tests are not valuable for people's health."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1484.09,"endTime":1488.1699999999998,"body":"There's no evidence that these tests are not cost effective."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1488.1699999999998,"endTime":1493.72,"body":"There's no evidence that these tests do not, you know, there's no evidence against these"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1493.72,"endTime":1498.07,"body":"tests saving lives. So we need more study and evaluation."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1498.22,"endTime":1499.78,"body":"That takes time."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1499.78,"endTime":1501.1299999999999,"body":"I wish it was faster."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1501.1299999999999,"endTime":1509.46,"body":"I wish the health system,you know,worked off sort of first principles a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1509.46,"endTime":1512.19,"body":"than require 30 or 40 year studies."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1512.31,"endTime":1514.44,"body":"But unfortunately, that's been the history of screening."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1514.44,"endTime":1519.78,"body":"And it's part of the reason why we have 3 or 4 different screening exams and not more."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1519.78,"endTime":1522.81,"body":"Each one of them took a tremendous amount of time."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1522.81,"endTime":1525.51,"body":"Mammogram 30 years, pap smear 30 years."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1525.51,"endTime":1529.1399999999999,"body":"Lung cancer screening 25 years, PSA 20 years."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1529.1399999999999,"endTime":1533.85,"body":"So all of these tests had exactly the same critics at the outset."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1533.85,"endTime":1538.3799999999999,"body":"And now these are standard of care and acknowledged as saving millions of lives."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1539.1599999999999,"endTime":1545.07,"body":"Isn't it the nature of science, though, that to do things properly, it takes time?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1547.71,"endTime":1556.56,"body":"Sure. Again, the Peter Attia in his book Outlive, he sort of talks about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1556.56,"endTime":1560.34,"body":"standards of proof. And he said the first level standard of proof is, you know, is does"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1560.34,"endTime":1564.57,"body":"this do harm, you know, and is there a is there potential upside for this individual"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1564.57,"endTime":1567.36,"body":"given their individual circumstances?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1567.36,"endTime":1571.95,"body":"And I think he he asked this question in the context of whole body screening and found"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1571.95,"endTime":1573.3899999999999,"body":"the answer to be favorable."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1573.3899999999999,"endTime":1574.86,"body":"Beyond that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1575.22,"endTime":1579.36,"body":"You know, is there evidence of cost effectiveness at a population scale?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1579.36,"endTime":1581.28,"body":"Well, that's a totally different question."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1581.7,"endTime":1589.23,"body":"And again, requires population level evidence, appropriately weighted, sometimes double"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1589.26,"endTime":1591.75,"body":"blinded, over a period of time."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1591.75,"endTime":1595.5,"body":"And we're working to collect that evidence, but unfortunately you just can't collect it,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1595.59,"endTime":1597.0,"body":"tremendously fast."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1597.0,"endTime":1601.05,"body":"And so then the question becomes, well, is this a test that's appropriate for me as an"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1601.05,"endTime":1603.96,"body":"individual? Do I understand the risks of the test?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1603.96,"endTime":1605.4299999999998,"body":"Do I understand the potential benefits?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1605.4299999999998,"endTime":1613.08,"body":"And am I prepared to, make that choice, in the interest of furthering my own health?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1613.08,"endTime":1614.49,"body":"That's an interesting argument."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1614.49,"endTime":1620.25,"body":"And the phrase population level evidence is something that we hear quite a lot in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1620.25,"endTime":1622.2,"body":"relation to this debate."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1622.2,"endTime":1627.75,"body":"And I think for I'm trying to put myself in the position of a layperson, someone with no"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1627.75,"endTime":1633.03,"body":"medical background, no advanced degree in population health, that someone who is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1633.03,"endTime":1639.33,"body":"concerned about their own health, hearing that something at a population level isn't"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1639.33,"endTime":1644.58,"body":"justified. And I'm just curious to get your, again, definition of that and what it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1644.58,"endTime":1648.84,"body":"actually means. And I think to some extent what my understanding is that something that a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1648.84,"endTime":1655.95,"body":"population level isn't justified suggests to me that something could be detrimental to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1655.95,"endTime":1660.54,"body":"all of us, because perhaps it could put an unnecessary burden on the health systems that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1660.54,"endTime":1662.6699999999998,"body":"we are all working within."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1662.6699999999998,"endTime":1666.1499999999999,"body":"Perhaps,you know, maybe to the benefit of an individual."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1666.1499999999999,"endTime":1671.22,"body":"But at a population level, as, as many professionals say, it simply isn't worth the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1671.22,"endTime":1671.76,"body":"money."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1672.95,"endTime":1678.3799999999999,"body":"Yeah, I think the difference here is, what health system are we trying to either create or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1678.3799999999999,"endTime":1682.25,"body":"prevent? And the health system that Prenuvo is trying to create is one that's transformed"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1682.25,"endTime":1685.46,"body":"and built around, preventative precision medicine."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1685.46,"endTime":1688.07,"body":"And we fundamentally believe that that health system."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1688.07,"endTime":1693.8899999999999,"body":"Yes. Although we may spend more money up front doing screening to test for disease, we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1693.8899999999999,"endTime":1698.27,"body":"will catch things early at a point where just lifestyle intervention oftentimes is the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1698.27,"endTime":1704.3,"body":"only thing that's required to be done, or if there is a requirement to access medical"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1704.3,"endTime":1707.36,"body":"treatment, that that treatment is easier to perform and therefore cheaper."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1707.36,"endTime":1711.53,"body":"And if we do that at population scale, the makeup of our entire health care system would"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1711.53,"endTime":1716.03,"body":"look very different and we believe would be much smaller, which is fantastic because with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1716.03,"endTime":1720.2,"body":"an aging population, we already have a health system that's bursting at the seams."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1721.07,"endTime":1726.11,"body":"If you look at these tests and evaluate them just sort of incrementally, then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1726.11,"endTime":1729.59,"body":"then you run the risk of sort of missing the bigger point here, which is that we have a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1729.59,"endTime":1735.5,"body":"health care system that's pretty unsustainable as it is, and is only going to get worse."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1735.5,"endTime":1741.4099999999999,"body":"And there needs to be a willingness and openness to evaluate much more fundamental and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1741.4099999999999,"endTime":1747.26,"body":"transformative approaches that might,you know, represent the future, you know, of health"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1747.26,"endTime":1753.05,"body":"care, versus evaluating incremental improvements, new drugs, or, you know, new"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1753.05,"endTime":1756.53,"body":"interventions to help people with advanced disease just live a little bit longer."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1756.53,"endTime":1759.62,"body":"That seems like the wrong thing to be optimizing for."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1761.1599999999999,"endTime":1766.86,"body":"I'm putting myself in the position of the layperson, wondering why there is such a gulf,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1767.01,"endTime":1771.12,"body":"such a wide gap in opinion when listening to you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1771.12,"endTime":1775.86,"body":"At the surface, very reasonable arguments about personal health care."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1775.86,"endTime":1778.2,"body":"And the professional bodies."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1778.2,"endTime":1779.52,"body":"And I've quoted from one."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1779.52,"endTime":1785.49,"body":"But there are others who are very significantly critical of what you're doing."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1785.49,"endTime":1788.22,"body":"There seems to be no middle ground in the profession."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1788.22,"endTime":1793.77,"body":"No one has to really understand that what they're making is a scientific statement."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1793.8899999999999,"endTime":1798.69,"body":"And there's a risk when you make a scientific statement to a consumer audience that you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1798.69,"endTime":1800.85,"body":"interpret this in the way that it's not intended."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1800.85,"endTime":1806.4299999999998,"body":"The statement that these bodies are making is there is not yet sufficient evidence, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1806.4299999999998,"endTime":1809.82,"body":"we stand ready to receive that evidence and evaluate it on its merits."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1809.94,"endTime":1817.44,"body":"However, when you when some of these bodies or sort of experts speak to a consumer"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1817.44,"endTime":1821.6399999999999,"body":"audience, the way that this is often received is that there's something wrong with these"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1821.6399999999999,"endTime":1824.31,"body":"exams, there's not necessarily anything wrong."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1824.52,"endTime":1828.48,"body":"There's just not been evidence that these things are something that we necessarily want"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1828.48,"endTime":1830.04,"body":"to adopt yet at a population level."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1830.04,"endTime":1835.2,"body":"And, and that's why when you first asked the question, I said this is a very innocuous"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1835.2,"endTime":1838.44,"body":"statement because I interpret that as a scientific statement."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1838.44,"endTime":1843.48,"body":"I don't interpret that sort of I don't sort of.."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1843.48,"endTime":1845.55,"body":"I don't go any further than that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1845.55,"endTime":1854.49,"body":"And unfortunately, I think these types of scientific statements should be, measured if"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1854.49,"endTime":1856.32,"body":"they are given in a consumer context."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1856.95,"endTime":1862.1699999999998,"body":"So a big part of the disagreement then, is how long do we wait for the evidence - that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1862.1699999999998,"endTime":1866.22,"body":"there is some evidence that you are basing your activities on, but you would like to see"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1866.22,"endTime":1868.3799999999999,"body":"more, others would like to see more."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1868.3799999999999,"endTime":1875.82,"body":"And that in your view, there's enough evidence, at least now, to justify what you're"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1875.82,"endTime":1878.49,"body":"doing, but you're acknowledging that there could be more evidence."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1879.09,"endTime":1884.01,"body":"Absolutely. And and I would love to go back and talk to all of the folks in the 60s, when"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1884.01,"endTime":1889.4099999999999,"body":"mammogram was first clinically proven and who spoke out against mammogram and speak to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1889.4099999999999,"endTime":1892.2,"body":"them 30 years later and ask them the question, well, how do you feel about those"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1892.2,"endTime":1894.57,"body":"statements? Because they haven't aged very well."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1894.57,"endTime":1899.28,"body":"And what about people that relied on them in the intervening period who didn't perhaps"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1899.28,"endTime":1903.03,"body":"get a life saving screening exam that they might otherwise have got?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1903.06,"endTime":1908.79,"body":"I think we just have to be very careful where there is a lack of evidence that we, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1908.79,"endTime":1914.01,"body":"know, empower patients with the knowledge so that they can make an informed decision"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":1914.01,"endTime":1916.86,"body":"about what's right for their own health."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1917.1299999999999,"endTime":1919.9199999999998,"body":"So let's talk about my experience."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1919.9199999999998,"endTime":1926.07,"body":"I started by saying that I had a scan at your facility in Los Angeles, and I'll just talk"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1926.07,"endTime":1929.25,"body":"you through. It was, more than an hour that I was at the facility."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1929.25,"endTime":1932.22,"body":"The scan itself lasts for an hour."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1932.22,"endTime":1933.6299999999999,"body":"You arrive, you check in."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1933.6299999999999,"endTime":1935.3999999999999,"body":"It's a pretty quick process."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1935.3999999999999,"endTime":1938.6399999999999,"body":"You go into a changing room, you undress down to your underwear."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1938.6399999999999,"endTime":1943.77,"body":"You wear a gown, two piece gown, and you're taken into the screening area."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1943.77,"endTime":1947.1299999999999,"body":"Having taken off your watch and all the metal that's attached to your body."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1947.1299999999999,"endTime":1952.23,"body":"And you're given some instructions by the the technician, and you're offered the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1952.23,"endTime":1955.9199999999998,"body":"opportunity to listen to some music or even watch a video."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1955.9199999999998,"endTime":1957.03,"body":"I actually chose the."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1957.03,"endTime":1961.29,"body":"I actually initially chose nothing because I kind of wanted to experience what it was"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1961.29,"endTime":1965.1,"body":"like without any distractions, but did eventually get some music."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1965.1,"endTime":1968.9099999999999,"body":"And I think probably the first thing to say about the experience of being in this long"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1968.94,"endTime":1974.19,"body":"tube and people's concerns about it being claustrophobic is that, well, at least I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1974.19,"endTime":1975.6299999999999,"body":"didn't. And I'm just one person."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1975.6299999999999,"endTime":1979.71,"body":"You can't really judge at a wider level just based on my experience, but I didn't find it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1979.71,"endTime":1984.6299999999999,"body":"claustrophobic. And in fact, your head is heading out of the back of the the tube for a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1984.6299999999999,"endTime":1987.6599999999999,"body":"significant amount of time and you're actually looking into the room."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1987.6599999999999,"endTime":1992.01,"body":"I know you offer don't use sedatives to to some people who are particularly worried about"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1992.01,"endTime":1993.3,"body":"that. I refused that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1993.3,"endTime":1997.62,"body":"And apparently most people don't feel as if they need a sedative to go into this tube for"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1997.62,"endTime":1999.36,"body":"an hour. So you lie there."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":1999.36,"endTime":2001.3999999999999,"body":"You're asked to breathe in, to breathe out."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2001.3999999999999,"endTime":2006.1699999999998,"body":"A number of times your body is moved on a kind of a trolley device."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2006.1699999999998,"endTime":2007.73,"body":"You're moved in and out."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2007.73,"endTime":2014.96,"body":"It's very similar to having a scan atany other medical facility, an MRI or a CT scan."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2014.96,"endTime":2019.97,"body":"And you emerge after about an hour and you get dressed and and off you go."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2019.97,"endTime":2021.83,"body":"And I had mine, I think, on a Thursday."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2021.83,"endTime":2025.49,"body":"By the following Monday, I had my test results."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2025.49,"endTime":2026.6299999999999,"body":"It's not always that quick."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2026.6299999999999,"endTime":2030.95,"body":"I guess it depends, Andrew, on how busy your people are in terms of how quickly the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2030.95,"endTime":2036.1399999999999,"body":"results come through. Then I had a consultation online with one of your doctors, and we"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2036.1399999999999,"endTime":2041.6,"body":"spent over an hour talking in quite a lot of detail about what the scan found about my"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2041.6,"endTime":2043.22,"body":"body. You've referred to it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2043.22,"endTime":2047.27,"body":"The images themselves are really quite graphic, aren't they?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2047.27,"endTime":2048.26,"body":"There are."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2048.26,"endTime":2048.7400000000002,"body":"There's nothing that you can't see."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2048.7400000000002,"endTime":2050.39,"body":"There's nothing you can't see."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2050.39,"endTime":2055.13,"body":"The first thing that I was told within the first 10s of the conversation that was nothing"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2055.13,"endTime":2059.27,"body":"was found that could be, or at least appeared to be."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2059.53,"endTime":2061.09,"body":"Serious and problematic."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2061.09,"endTime":2065.23,"body":"That was going to cause me a real difficulty in the future, which is, I think, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2065.23,"endTime":2069.25,"body":"the question that most people want to know right off the bat that there's nothing there"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2069.25,"endTime":2070.27,"body":"are no serious findings."},{"speaker":"Radiologist","startTime":2070.27,"endTime":2077.08,"body":"And then looking at the pancreas itself, on these two images here, this is this is the"},{"speaker":"Radiologist","startTime":2077.08,"endTime":2078.4,"body":"head right here."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2078.4,"endTime":2078.85,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Radiologist","startTime":2079.3,"endTime":2082.7200000000003,"body":"This is the neck, body and tail."},{"speaker":"Radiologist","startTime":2082.7200000000003,"endTime":2084.91,"body":"So it goes all the way across the abdomen here."},{"speaker":"Radiologist","startTime":2084.91,"endTime":2091.27,"body":"Right and again, I don't see anything concerning in terms of a worrisome mass other than"},{"speaker":"Radiologist","startTime":2091.27,"endTime":2093.58,"body":"these, just these low risk cysts that will."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2093.58,"endTime":2099.0099999999998,"body":"But for anyone aged I'm 62 that they're inevitably going to be things that you see and you"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2099.0099999999998,"endTime":2102.97,"body":"spot that maybe warrant some follow up with your doctor."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2102.97,"endTime":2105.91,"body":"And there will be 1 or 2 things that I'll talk to my doctor about."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2105.91,"endTime":2110.5,"body":"But I think I'm, I'm in that that big category that you refer to, that really there were"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2110.5,"endTime":2116.02,"body":"no significant findings that I should worry about, and perhaps 1 or 2 things that I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2116.02,"endTime":2117.25,"body":"should keep an eye on."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2117.25,"endTime":2120.79,"body":"And it was interesting to me that there were things that were observed that clearly"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2120.79,"endTime":2124.15,"body":"tallied with my own knowledge of my medical history."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2124.15,"endTime":2128.62,"body":"You could see that. You could see again, very graphically, some of the results of some of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2128.62,"endTime":2131.08,"body":"the surgeries, for example, that I've had in the past."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2131.08,"endTime":2135.7,"body":"So I guess coming out of it, for me, obviously there's that reassurance that there's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2135.7,"endTime":2142.69,"body":"nothing seriously wrong with me, but it does give you that feeling of satisfaction that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2142.69,"endTime":2148.54,"body":"everything is okay and also a determination to continue with a lifestyle."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2148.54,"endTime":2153.31,"body":"And I think you reflected this from your first scan - a determination from what you're"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2153.31,"endTime":2155.7999999999997,"body":"seeing, that you need to do everything possible."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2155.7999999999997,"endTime":2162.85,"body":"We're talking the basics - diet, exercise, sleep to maintain that healthy body that you"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2162.85,"endTime":2168.91,"body":"seem to have at the moment, while understanding that this isn't a scan for everything and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2168.91,"endTime":2171.64,"body":"that there are still some gold standard scans."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2171.64,"endTime":2174.19,"body":"And you can explain this to me like a colonoscopy."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2174.19,"endTime":2178.75,"body":"Like a mammogram for a woman, that you should still have to be absolutely certain about"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2178.75,"endTime":2180.37,"body":"particular parts of the body."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2180.37,"endTime":2182.2,"body":"Yeah. No, I think that's a great summary."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2182.2,"endTime":2184.39,"body":"And I was going to ask you what was the peace of mind like?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2184.39,"endTime":2188.23,"body":"And were you one of those folks that always had a little niggle in the back of your head"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2188.23,"endTime":2190.96,"body":"that you were concerned about something?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2190.96,"endTime":2196.27,"body":"Or, you know, you know, and, and if so, was that this something that really changed your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2196.27,"endTime":2197.74,"body":"outlook around your health?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2198.0099999999998,"endTime":2200.98,"body":"Well, I'm somewhat you know, I do this podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2200.98,"endTime":2202.6,"body":"I'm interested in longevity."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2202.6,"endTime":2208.81,"body":"So I think, maybe almost to an extreme compared with most people, I am very interested in"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2208.81,"endTime":2213.52,"body":"personal health and the interventions that we can do to and I mentioned sleep, diet and"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2213.52,"endTime":2217.9,"body":"exercise as being absolutely the key interventions that we can all apply to ourselves."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2217.9,"endTime":2219.25,"body":"So I'm very interested."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2219.25,"endTime":2223.72,"body":"And there was nothing there were 1 or 2 things that I was concerned about that actually"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2223.72,"endTime":2228.79,"body":"this scan did highlight and I will eventually talk to my doctor about, but that wasn't, I"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2228.79,"endTime":2231.22,"body":"mean, the reason I did this was because you offered it to me."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2231.25,"endTime":2232.9,"body":"We met at a conference."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2232.9,"endTime":2236.08,"body":"We talked about it. I moderated a conference, debate."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2236.08,"endTime":2237.5499999999997,"body":"And that was the ..."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2237.73,"endTime":2242.2599999999998,"body":"So the key question here is, would I have done the scan off my own bat?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2242.2599999999998,"endTime":2245.89,"body":"And we should say, and we haven't mentioned yet, it costs 2500 dollars."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2245.89,"endTime":2252.82,"body":"So out of the range for most people, and certainly the price tag would make me think"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2252.82,"endTime":2257.62,"body":"twice. And maybe I wouldn't have done it because of of that significant outlay."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2257.62,"endTime":2260.98,"body":"And I think the question, the debate for most people, is it worth it?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2260.98,"endTime":2267.07,"body":"Is it worth paying 2500 dollars for what is based on your statistics, what is likely to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2267.07,"endTime":2270.25,"body":"be a peace of mind situation?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2271.36,"endTime":2276.22,"body":"Well, I mean, for let's call it 90, 85 to 90% of people."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2276.22,"endTime":2280.18,"body":"Yeah. I mean, it's peace of mind, and that -  a lot of people would consider that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2280.18,"endTime":2284.11,"body":"priceless, particularly if you have family history or you've previously had cancer."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2284.11,"endTime":2289.06,"body":"I mean, our health system, you know, if you if you have a breast cancer, for example,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2289.06,"endTime":2291.52,"body":"they they patch you up, you get treated."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2291.52,"endTime":2295.33,"body":"And often times there's not a lot of follow up that happens in the years since."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2295.33,"endTime":2298.0,"body":"And and as an individual you're always looking over your shoulder."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2298.0,"endTime":2301.36,"body":"So I think for many people peace of mind is really important."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2301.36,"endTime":2305.32,"body":"If you feel pain and you're not sure what it is, and the health system is sort of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2305.32,"endTime":2309.85,"body":"ignoring it, knowing either what it is or what it isn't."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2309.85,"endTime":2312.31,"body":"Also, it can be tremendously relieving."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2312.31,"endTime":2316.0,"body":"And then for the small set of people where we find something early, I mean, that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2316.0,"endTime":2321.31,"body":"really, those are the folks that sort of are grateful for the rest of their lives."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2321.31,"endTime":2325.06,"body":"And, so it's obviously it's a complex question."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2325.06,"endTime":2326.29,"body":"It's expensive."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2326.41,"endTime":2328.39,"body":"We're working hard to bring the cost down."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2328.39,"endTime":2331.18,"body":"We actually have a cancer screening exam that costs $1,000."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2331.18,"endTime":2334.54,"body":"So, that's much less expensive."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2334.72,"endTime":2339.82,"body":"If folks are mainly concerned about cancer, um, I believe one day in the future, these"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2339.82,"endTime":2344.32,"body":"scans should be three, four, five hundred dollars covered by insurance and part of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2344.32,"endTime":2347.65,"body":"health system. And that's the future that we're working towards."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2347.65,"endTime":2352.0,"body":"We? When we started Nuvo, we never said that we wanted to build something that would be,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2352.18,"endTime":2355.6,"body":"you know, just sort of concierge medicine."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2355.6,"endTime":2357.88,"body":"We wanted to build something that could really change the world."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2357.88,"endTime":2358.96,"body":"And that's what my."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2359.07,"endTime":2360.75,"body":"Team is really focused on doing."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2361.32,"endTime":2363.69,"body":"How close do you think we are to that?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2363.69,"endTime":2367.71,"body":"Because at the moment, as you imply this, the insurance companies will not cover this"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2367.71,"endTime":2369.48,"body":"kind of testing."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2369.48,"endTime":2371.97,"body":"Are you in discussions with insurance companies?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2371.97,"endTime":2377.2799999999997,"body":"What what is your sense of how close they are to, in terms of a meeting of minds that"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2377.2799999999997,"endTime":2381.33,"body":"this would be a beneficial intervention for most people?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2381.57,"endTime":2387.6,"body":"Yeah. Our philosophy as a company really has been, first and foremost, how do we bring the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2387.6,"endTime":2389.61,"body":"cost down assuming it's not covered?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2389.61,"endTime":2391.14,"body":"So what can we do here?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2391.14,"endTime":2394.2,"body":"And, you know, there are three things that we're working on."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2394.2,"endTime":2397.83,"body":"One is, bringing down the time it takes to screen you."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2397.83,"endTime":2400.17,"body":"Obviously, the machines are very expensive."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2400.17,"endTime":2401.7599999999998,"body":"The facilities are expensive to operate."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2401.7599999999998,"endTime":2408.57,"body":"So the faster we can, bring people through, the screening process, the more people we can"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2408.57,"endTime":2411.15,"body":"get through, the more we can spread those costs across more people."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2411.87,"endTime":2413.85,"body":"The second is just through scale."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2413.85,"endTime":2418.41,"body":"We operate in Los Angeles, for example, an MRI center that has five machines."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2418.41,"endTime":2421.29,"body":"That's probably one of the biggest, the biggest centers in North America."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2421.29,"endTime":2426.27,"body":"So these MRI facilities are not are not operating at very big scale."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2426.27,"endTime":2429.7799999999997,"body":"And we believe as we build bigger and bigger centers, that we'll be able to bring the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2429.7799999999997,"endTime":2434.82,"body":"cost down. And then the third is to use AI, frankly, to help make the radiologists more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2434.82,"endTime":2439.62,"body":"efficient. And here I believe there's a lot of promise, the radiology is the most"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2439.62,"endTime":2441.36,"body":"expensive cost in these procedures."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2441.36,"endTime":2445.7999999999997,"body":"So we're working on all three of these."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2445.7999999999997,"endTime":2449.09,"body":"And we hope that that will bring the cost down."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2449.15,"endTime":2451.34,"body":"For every $100, we can take off the cost."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2451.34,"endTime":2454.13,"body":"You know, the market becomes bigger and more and more people can access it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2454.13,"endTime":2458.0,"body":"But also the cheaper the exam becomes, the more likely it will be covered by insurance"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2458.0,"endTime":2459.44,"body":"and health systems anyhow."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2459.44,"endTime":2463.2799999999997,"body":"So I hope that ultimately the goal is it's covered for everyone."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2463.43,"endTime":2467.93,"body":"But you know, as a company, we're working to bring the cost down as much as we can so"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2467.93,"endTime":2470.93,"body":"that if that takes time, at least more and more people can access it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2470.99,"endTime":2477.92,"body":"Just to dive into the AI thing, at the moment, all of the scans are reviewed by a human"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2477.92,"endTime":2479.75,"body":"being, by a radiologist."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2479.7799999999997,"endTime":2483.41,"body":"Do you do you involve any AI at all?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2483.56,"endTime":2489.5,"body":"We do. We have some AI involved in speeding up the image acquisition to some extent."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2489.5,"endTime":2496.7,"body":"We have AI that helps us understand what's happening with the volume of certain organs,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2496.7,"endTime":2499.0099999999998,"body":"particularly as we scan people longitudinally."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2499.0099999999998,"endTime":2503.5099999999998,"body":"That can tell us a lot about underlying health conditions and just underlying trajectory"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2503.5099999999998,"endTime":2508.88,"body":"of health. Obviously we're working on a lot of models too, that are diagnostic models."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2508.88,"endTime":2515.2999999999997,"body":"So training AI to help really get to the point of being able to diagnose various medical"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2515.2999999999997,"endTime":2521.72,"body":"conditions. And here the challenge really is, you know, we need to make radiologists much"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2521.72,"endTime":2523.54,"body":"more efficient."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2523.54,"endTime":2528.74,"body":"Because if we did want to offer these screenings at population scale, unfortunately"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2528.74,"endTime":2530.42,"body":"there's not enough radiologists."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2530.81,"endTime":2533.63,"body":"You know, probably in the world to do that, even just in the US."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2533.63,"endTime":2540.41,"body":"So, whatever to do this at population scale will require AI in one form or another just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2540.41,"endTime":2541.67,"body":"to make that feasible."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2541.7,"endTime":2546.35,"body":"And of course, this is a massive growth area in the health sphere."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2546.35,"endTime":2553.5499999999997,"body":"If you look at clinical trials, the use of AI to analyze mass data is I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2553.5499999999997,"endTime":2556.85,"body":"revolutionizing science in so many ways."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2557.09,"endTime":2561.5299999999997,"body":"Well, it's funny, we always think of AI as being very, sort of, this kind of like unique"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2561.5299999999997,"endTime":2566.81,"body":"solution. It's funny, we live in a world of chat, you know, chat GPT and OpenAI and, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2566.81,"endTime":2569.81,"body":"know, I have a young child. And so you just see the way a child learns and you sort of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2569.81,"endTime":2574.2799999999997,"body":"start to imagine it gives you a great appreciation of how AI learns to some extent."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2574.2799999999997,"endTime":2576.56,"body":"And, even with medical imaging."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2576.56,"endTime":2578.45,"body":"So, you know, what makes a great radiologist?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2578.45,"endTime":2582.62,"body":"Well, they've looked at thousands of studies in the past, and they can sort of apply the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2582.62,"endTime":2585.29,"body":"sum total of that knowledge to the case right in front of them."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2585.29,"endTime":2586.85,"body":"And really, that's what AI is doing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2586.85,"endTime":2591.08,"body":"It's evaluating thousands or tens and thousands of studies and then being able to say,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2591.08,"endTime":2595.73,"body":"okay, you know, based on all of the brains I've looked at before that, you know, I knew"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2595.73,"endTime":2597.5,"body":"what what they were diagnosed with."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2597.5,"endTime":2599.54,"body":"When I look at this brain, this is what I'm seeing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2599.54,"endTime":2604.34,"body":"So those models obviously benefit from having more data."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2604.34,"endTime":2609.56,"body":"And as we continue to grow, there are more and more medical diagnoses that become sort of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2609.56,"endTime":2614.54,"body":"low hanging fruit. There's enough data that's available in order for the algorithms to do"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2614.54,"endTime":2616.04,"body":"a pretty good job of diagnosing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2616.04,"endTime":2622.25,"body":"And always there's the radiologist there to, you know, make sure that there's a human in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2622.25,"endTime":2624.47,"body":"the loop, which for us is very important."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2624.47,"endTime":2627.83,"body":"Let's just talk about some of your positive outcomes."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2627.83,"endTime":2630.98,"body":"You've touched on this, but can you give me some examples?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2630.98,"endTime":2635.84,"body":"We talked about the range of findings from a potentially life threatening condition to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2635.84,"endTime":2637.46,"body":"something that maybe just needs to be monitored."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2637.46,"endTime":2639.5,"body":"Or something that's just nothing at all."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2639.5,"endTime":2645.11,"body":"What about those examples where you have quite literally helped save someone's life?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2645.14,"endTime":2649.61,"body":"Sure. I mean, we've, there's been a number of public cases."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2649.61,"endTime":2656.0,"body":"We found a pancreatic cancer in Maria Menounos, who's quite well known personality in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2656.0,"endTime":2665.12,"body":"US. We have lots of sort of unsung heroes that we've found stage one or stage two early"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2665.12,"endTime":2669.71,"body":"cancer out there in the communities, and what we see happen is."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2669.71,"endTime":2674.45,"body":"You know, we see these clusters of patients coming into us from certain suburbs and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2674.45,"endTime":2678.5299999999997,"body":"oftentimes the sort of like the genesis of that is that we've made a life saving"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2678.5299999999997,"endTime":2683.81,"body":"diagnosis and that's got around the community, and then new folks come in, be it sort of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2683.81,"endTime":2685.94,"body":"a geographic community or a school."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2685.94,"endTime":2688.52,"body":"You know, the parents start coming in because we find something."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2688.52,"endTime":2694.25,"body":"So, I mean, we've probably found now thousands and thousands of cancers and aneurysms,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2694.4,"endTime":2697.49,"body":"leading to life saving diagnoses."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2697.49,"endTime":2703.61,"body":"The key being you would find a stage one cancer in a particular organ at a stage where it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2703.61,"endTime":2705.35,"body":"can be operated on."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2705.35,"endTime":2708.77,"body":"The cancer could be surgically removed before it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2708.77,"endTime":2714.68,"body":"And I think this is the key before it has spread outside of the source organ, before it"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2714.68,"endTime":2716.39,"body":"is affected other parts of the body."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2716.39,"endTime":2723.29,"body":"Yeah. I mean, the the thing that we, we need to bear in mind is there are only 3 or 4"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2723.29,"endTime":2731.27,"body":"standard of care screening modalities for cancer, and that helps us catch about 14% of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2731.27,"endTime":2732.71,"body":"all the cancers that we can find."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2732.71,"endTime":2736.73,"body":"So 86% of cancers are not found in routine screening."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2736.73,"endTime":2740.87,"body":"And in the UK, there was a study that showed the vast majority of those cancers are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2740.87,"endTime":2744.7999999999997,"body":"caught in an acute setting in the hospital when the cancer is already advanced."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2745.2799999999997,"endTime":2750.08,"body":"So, you know, Prenuvo's philosophy in some ways is almost like no organ left behind."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2750.08,"endTime":2757.7,"body":"We want one screening test that is does a good enough job, in some cases a great job"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2757.7,"endTime":2761.57,"body":"depending on the part of the body of screening every single organ for everything that we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2761.57,"endTime":2771.24,"body":"can see. And if we do that, then we're going to find things that are in patients where"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2771.24,"endTime":2772.59,"body":"they're still asymptomatic."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2772.59,"endTime":2774.96,"body":"And in many cases, those are life saving diagnoses."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2774.96,"endTime":2776.46,"body":"And I'll give you two examples."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2777.2999999999997,"endTime":2782.91,"body":"The first example is we are seeing for reasons which are not well understood, we're not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2782.91,"endTime":2784.5299999999997,"body":"the only people seeing this."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2784.5299999999997,"endTime":2791.97,"body":"They believe it's maybe environmental, that we are seeing an increase in lung cancer in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2791.97,"endTime":2793.92,"body":"young women that have never smoked."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2794.77,"endTime":2798.61,"body":"And when we have found it thankfully these have been stage one."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2799.24,"endTime":2805.87,"body":"And successfully resected and absolutely lifesaving because lung cancer is a very, very"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2805.87,"endTime":2809.5299999999997,"body":"deadly cancer. Another example is ovarian cancer."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2809.89,"endTime":2816.5499999999997,"body":"The challenge with ovarian cancer is that women obviously, premenopausal women, they have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2816.5499999999997,"endTime":2818.62,"body":"periods all the time. They have pain down there."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2818.62,"endTime":2822.52,"body":"And as a health care system, we often ignore abnormal pain."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2822.52,"endTime":2826.5099999999998,"body":"We write it off as, you know, something that women are expected to have."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2826.96,"endTime":2834.04,"body":"And ovarian cancer is so deadly because it's typically caught when, it bursts from the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2834.04,"endTime":2836.5,"body":"ovary and basically fills the abdominal cavity."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2836.5,"endTime":2843.31,"body":"And that's just, you know, that's, you know, a horrible situation with very poor sort of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2843.31,"endTime":2844.57,"body":"expected outcome."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2844.66,"endTime":2848.71,"body":"Most of the ovarian cancer we've caught has been stage one limited to the ovary."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2848.71,"endTime":2853.66,"body":"And so, you know, we should remember that other 86% of cancers, which there isn't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2853.66,"endTime":2859.69,"body":"screening. And, you know, we want to make a dent in those while still acknowledging that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2859.69,"endTime":2864.13,"body":"people should continue to get the standard of care screening that is covered for by"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2864.13,"endTime":2864.73,"body":"insurance."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2864.73,"endTime":2870.22,"body":"Yeah, I was going to raise that point that, again, you can't emphasize enough that this is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2870.22,"endTime":2871.5099999999998,"body":"if people choose to do it."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2871.5099999999998,"endTime":2878.02,"body":"This is an add on to the other types of screening, whether it's a scan or a blood test or"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2878.02,"endTime":2883.99,"body":"whatever they would get from their regular doctor, that this isn't a 100% catch all."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2883.99,"endTime":2888.97,"body":"And that people I guess you tell people this, this don't be lulled into a false sense of"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2888.97,"endTime":2893.59,"body":"security. We've talked about that feel good feeling of being told that you're you're"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2893.59,"endTime":2898.18,"body":"doing okay and that there's nothing, at least in the scan, that suggests that you have"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2898.18,"endTime":2900.97,"body":"any fatal, potentially fatal conditions."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2900.97,"endTime":2902.7999999999997,"body":"But but this isn't everything."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":2902.7999999999997,"endTime":2905.62,"body":"And that those gold standard tests are still important."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2905.62,"endTime":2911.29,"body":"Yeah. I think the biggest, I think most exciting outcome of the scan that I see in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2911.29,"endTime":2914.95,"body":"patients that I interact with every day is just being able to see the images as kind of a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2914.95,"endTime":2916.24,"body":"catalyst for change."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2916.5099999999998,"endTime":2921.67,"body":"And I remember in the very early days, we had a young software engineer who was a smoker"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2921.85,"endTime":2926.7999999999997,"body":"and, you know, all of our employees at Prenuvo, we get scanned once a year."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2927.04,"endTime":2932.77,"body":"And so we put this person in the machine."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2932.77,"endTime":2936.04,"body":"And of course, he knew theoretically that smoking was a bad thing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2936.04,"endTime":2937.6,"body":"And at some point he should give it up."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2937.6,"endTime":2940.9,"body":"Maybe he tried a few times before, but we took him out and we showed him."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2940.9,"endTime":2943.36,"body":"Okay, see this white in your lungs?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2943.36,"endTime":2945.43,"body":"This is inflammation from smoking."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2945.43,"endTime":2948.94,"body":"And this white is in exactly the place where cancer likes to start in the lung."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2949.6,"endTime":2952.24,"body":"And just being able to show someone that picture."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2953.17,"endTime":2959.11,"body":"As a catalyst for positive change, or someone that might have high blood pressure and you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2959.11,"endTime":2960.91,"body":"think, oh, high blood pressure. What does that mean?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2960.91,"endTime":2966.19,"body":"You know, it's like such a it's something that you can't grasp, you know, without it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2966.19,"endTime":2968.86,"body":"just a number on a report."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2968.86,"endTime":2972.88,"body":"But we showed the end organ damage to the brain from high blood pressure."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2972.88,"endTime":2977.98,"body":"We we can show, like, the little area, little patches of, damaged brain tissue because"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2977.98,"endTime":2980.41,"body":"you might have high blood pressure or cholesterol or..."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2980.41,"endTime":2985.09,"body":"So these pictures are real catalyst for change in health trajectory."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2985.21,"endTime":2987.61,"body":"You know, sometimes that's learning something that you don't have."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2987.61,"endTime":2990.4,"body":"Sometimes that's learning that you don't have something you thought you had."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2990.67,"endTime":2993.64,"body":"But you can't escape from a picture tells a thousand words."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2993.64,"endTime":2995.0499999999997,"body":"It's there, it's in your face."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":2995.0499999999997,"endTime":3000.0299999999997,"body":"And at least for me, it's always been a catalyst for, you know, making positive change."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3000.0299999999997,"endTime":3005.7,"body":"I now spend two hours a day on a walking treadmill desk because my cervical spine, like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3005.7,"endTime":3009.87,"body":"most people from Silicon Valley, you know, was ruined by spending too much time sitting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3009.87,"endTime":3011.61,"body":"at computers and looking at phones."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3011.61,"endTime":3016.0499999999997,"body":"And I now walk about six miles a day."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3016.65,"endTime":3022.17,"body":"And my spine, the condition of my spine has not only not progressed, but it's got better."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3022.56,"endTime":3027.63,"body":"And that all came from looking at a picture and saying, Holy cow, you know, that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3027.63,"endTime":3030.96,"body":"look good. And maybe, you know, pretty soon we'll probably have AI that will tell you,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3030.96,"endTime":3033.69,"body":"okay, if you keep doing what you're doing, this is what your spine is going to look like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3033.69,"endTime":3034.71,"body":"in 20 years."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3035.13,"endTime":3040.56,"body":"And hopefully that, you know, that's going to be a real catalyst for change."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3041.19,"endTime":3046.38,"body":"Interesting, isn't it, how technology can help to inform us or tell us that some of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3046.38,"endTime":3049.71,"body":"most basic of interventions are probably the best for us?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3049.71,"endTime":3053.85,"body":"Like you've been informed that constant movement, or a lot of movement during your day"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3053.85,"endTime":3056.37,"body":"can be ultimately very good for you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3056.37,"endTime":3061.44,"body":"I'm curious what you would say, Andrew, to those people who say, I just don't want to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3061.44,"endTime":3065.16,"body":"know. I wouldn't want to have one of these scans because I would rather."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3065.16,"endTime":3066.75,"body":"And you hear it? Well, I've heard it quite a lot."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3066.7799999999997,"endTime":3067.95,"body":"I just rather not know."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3067.95,"endTime":3070.23,"body":"I'd just rather get on with my life and not know."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3070.23,"endTime":3074.13,"body":"Now, clearly at your facility, you probably don't interact with these people because they"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3074.13,"endTime":3075.39,"body":"don't come to you in the first place."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3075.39,"endTime":3077.22,"body":"But what would you say to them?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3077.88,"endTime":3083.31,"body":"Well we do, I mean, oftentimes how that works is the that usually it's the wife that comes"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3083.31,"endTime":3085.83,"body":"in first and she has a great experience."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3085.83,"endTime":3088.62,"body":"And then she drags the, you know, husband in by the ear."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3088.74,"endTime":3097.23,"body":"And I don't know, it's this is sort of we this is the sort of a weird quirk of human"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3097.23,"endTime":3098.85,"body":"nature that we don't want to know."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3099.12,"endTime":3103.23,"body":"You know, at the same time, we're the first person to tell a friend, hey, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3103.23,"endTime":3104.97,"body":"you don't look healthy, go and get checked out."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3104.97,"endTime":3108.42,"body":"But we don't see, see that same need in ourselves."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3108.87,"endTime":3114.18,"body":"I think the most scary of these scans is the first one, because the first one is sort of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3114.18,"endTime":3115.89,"body":"you having been."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3116.19,"endTime":3120.27,"body":"It's like not it's like going to the dentist, not having been for like 3 or 4 years."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3120.27,"endTime":3123.45,"body":"You know, the likelihood that you're going to have a root canal is probably a lot higher"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3123.45,"endTime":3125.0099999999998,"body":"than if you go every six months."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3125.0099999999998,"endTime":3128.49,"body":"But we now have patients that come in routinely every year or two."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3128.49,"endTime":3130.02,"body":"And it's not a scary thing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3130.02,"endTime":3135.21,"body":"It's additional knowledge, to help them live their lives better."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3135.21,"endTime":3140.07,"body":"The likelihood of anything really crazy coming up is quite low and intentionally so if"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3140.07,"endTime":3141.72,"body":"you do it routinely."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3141.93,"endTime":3145.2,"body":"They know that if anything's caught, it's going to be caught very early because it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3145.2,"endTime":3147.36,"body":"there was nothing on the scan the year before."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3147.36,"endTime":3153.93,"body":"So the challenge is getting over that initial, I would say hesitation."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3153.93,"endTime":3158.7599999999998,"body":"And then once you do that, the hope is that you can sort of outsource a lot of your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3158.7599999999998,"endTime":3162.9,"body":"anxiety or concerns about health to companies like Prenuvo and other people that are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3162.9,"endTime":3164.67,"body":"operating in the perennial health space."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3164.67,"endTime":3170.07,"body":"And I think it's fair to say that some people might be motivated to come to see you and to"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3170.07,"endTime":3176.61,"body":"have one of these scans because they've read or seen a celebrity endorsement in social"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3176.61,"endTime":3181.0499999999997,"body":"media. And I'm just curious to know what how you feel about that."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3181.0499999999997,"endTime":3183.39,"body":"I know clearly it motivates some people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3183.39,"endTime":3186.99,"body":"For others, it can have quite the opposite effect, that it can be a turn off that a"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3186.99,"endTime":3188.2799999999997,"body":"celebrity has said something."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3188.2799999999997,"endTime":3191.2799999999997,"body":"Therefore, should I do it? And the reaction might well, no."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3191.2799999999997,"endTime":3192.2999999999997,"body":"What do they know?"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3192.66,"endTime":3196.47,"body":"Do you embrace what celebrities say?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3196.47,"endTime":3197.88,"body":"Well, yes."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3197.88,"endTime":3201.18,"body":"And it's almost never completely the deciding factor."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3201.18,"endTime":3205.73,"body":"I would say for most patients that come in, health care is a very ..."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3205.73,"endTime":3209.2799999999997,"body":"it's a high trust, purchase."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3209.2799999999997,"endTime":3213.7799999999997,"body":"And because these scans are not inexpensive, it's a very considered purchase."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3213.7799999999997,"endTime":3217.71,"body":"And so most people are coming in, have heard about us from two, three, four different"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3217.71,"endTime":3221.13,"body":"locations. So that might have been they heard an influencer talk about us."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3221.13,"endTime":3224.73,"body":"They had a friend that came in and had a great experience, a colleague at work."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3224.73,"endTime":3227.19,"body":"They found something and they're very grateful."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3227.19,"endTime":3231.09,"body":"So it's a combination of these things that help people, you know, I guess, like get up"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3231.09,"endTime":3232.7999999999997,"body":"the courage to come in themselves."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3233.04,"endTime":3236.73,"body":"Having said that, obviously we're very grateful for celebrities because the biggest"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3236.73,"endTime":3242.49,"body":"challenge when you're building something new and transformative is just word of mouth and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3242.49,"endTime":3245.79,"body":"having people really understand that these are the tests are available and might be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3245.79,"endTime":3246.84,"body":"relevant to them."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3246.84,"endTime":3255.64,"body":"And so celebrities have big audiences and we're excited every time that you know they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3255.64,"endTime":3260.5299999999997,"body":"themselves are excited to share their experience with their audience and hopefully save"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3260.5299999999997,"endTime":3267.34,"body":"lives. So, it's absolutely not the only factor that most people take into account, but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3267.34,"endTime":3271.6,"body":"absolutely, we're really excited to continue to lean into that, because the more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3271.6,"endTime":3276.16,"body":"awareness there is, at least the more people out there have the possibility to consider"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3276.16,"endTime":3277.72,"body":"whether this is right for them."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3277.72,"endTime":3280.21,"body":"Well I Andrew, I'm going to follow your work with interest."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3280.36,"endTime":3286.24,"body":"Certainly looking out for that additional research that we talked about earlier, that may"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3286.24,"endTime":3290.89,"body":"well show that you're doing a fantastic job and more people should have scans like this."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3290.89,"endTime":3295.6,"body":"I will follow the criticism of what you are doing as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3295.6,"endTime":3297.5499999999997,"body":"And we've talked about it during this interview."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3297.5499999999997,"endTime":3302.83,"body":"I'm hoping to speak to someone, a radiologist, maybe that has an opposing view, and put"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3302.83,"endTime":3307.21,"body":"some of your points to that person, because I think it is important, and I would hope"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3307.21,"endTime":3312.16,"body":"that you would agree with this that these discussions are had, that when something is"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3312.16,"endTime":3317.59,"body":"controversial like this, that we really do dive into to all sides to get a full picture"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3317.59,"endTime":3321.94,"body":"as to whether something like this is going to be beneficial for most people."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3321.94,"endTime":3327.13,"body":"And I always come back to the idea that we are all hopefully ultimately working on the"},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3327.13,"endTime":3330.5499999999997,"body":"same side here. We want better health for everyone."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3330.5499999999997,"endTime":3337.63,"body":"Yeah, I think maybe just to close off on that, look, there has been a history of whole"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3337.63,"endTime":3340.75,"body":"body screening over the last 20 or 30 years that has not been great."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3340.75,"endTime":3345.04,"body":"About 30 years ago, you could go to a shopping mall in the US, and there were companies"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3345.04,"endTime":3351.85,"body":"that put you inside a CT machine that was not low dose, that would screen you for cancer."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3351.85,"endTime":3355.7799999999997,"body":"And the only thing we know for certain is if you did it enough times, they would probably"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3355.7799999999997,"endTime":3359.23,"body":"find cancer. What we don't know is whether they would have caused it in the first place."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3359.23,"endTime":3363.95,"body":"So the medical system has unfortunately ..."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3363.95,"endTime":3367.09,"body":"has a lot of sort of bad institutional memory for screening."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3367.09,"endTime":3371.56,"body":"And so a lot of the challenge on Prenuvo and other companies in the space is really to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3371.56,"endTime":3376.06,"body":"help educate folks on how the modality we're using is different."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3376.06,"endTime":3378.82,"body":"The imaging techniques are significantly more advanced."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3378.88,"endTime":3384.82,"body":"And it's important to really recognize that these exams or similar exams to what we're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3384.82,"endTime":3390.37,"body":"doing are already considered best practice for many areas of medicine, for people that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3390.37,"endTime":3394.96,"body":"have a high genetic risk of cancer, like Li-Fraumeni Syndrome."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3394.96,"endTime":3399.97,"body":"These people are getting whole body MRIs every year."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3399.97,"endTime":3404.0499999999997,"body":"In certain markets in Europe they're used for patients that might have had certain"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3404.0499999999997,"endTime":3406.15,"body":"cancers to make sure they don't come back."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3406.33,"endTime":3408.31,"body":"Again, part of standard of care."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3408.31,"endTime":3412.66,"body":"So the exam itself actually has a lot of clinical support."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3412.66,"endTime":3416.47,"body":"The real question here is really a question of cost versus benefit."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3417.04,"endTime":3425.41,"body":"Which again is a question that is should is a different sort of question when you apply"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3425.41,"endTime":3428.0499999999997,"body":"it to the individual as when you apply it to the population."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3428.0499999999997,"endTime":3432.64,"body":"And I think that's what the, you know, that's the evidence that it still needs to be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3432.64,"endTime":3433.21,"body":"gathered."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3433.7799999999997,"endTime":3435.5499999999997,"body":"Indeed. Andrew, really good to talk to you."},{"speaker":"Peter Bowes","startTime":3435.5499999999997,"endTime":3436.72,"body":"Thank you very much indeed."},{"speaker":"Andrew Lacy","startTime":3436.96,"endTime":3438.52,"body":"No worries. Thank you Peter."},{"speaker":"DISCLAIMER","startTime":3438.52,"endTime":3443.77,"body":"This podcast is for informational, educational and entertainment purposes only."},{"speaker":"DISCLAIMER","startTime":3443.77,"endTime":3446.29,"body":"We do not offer medical advice."},{"speaker":"DISCLAIMER","startTime":3446.29,"endTime":3451.63,"body":"If you have health concerns of any kind or you are considering adopting a new diet or"},{"speaker":"DISCLAIMER","startTime":3451.63,"endTime":3455.32,"body":"exercise regime, you should first consult your doctor."}]}