Calculations, Consternations and Cures!: Solving Math Phobia with the fastest human calculator Neelkantha Bhanu Prakash

At the age of 5, Neelakantha Bhanu Prakash in his own words was good at Math, however not fantastic. Fast-forward to age 13 he bagged the title of India’s fastest human calculator and by 15 he became the world’s fastest human calculator beating the greats like Shakuntala Devi and Scott Flansburg.

Titled by BBC as ‘The Usain Bolt of Mathematics’, participating in competitive Math exams gave him that adrenaline rush and made him love the process of solving complex calculations mentally. Tune-in as we explore the binaries of Neelakantha’s wonderful mathematical journey.

Transcript

Go-Beyond Podcast Transcript: Neelakantha Bhanu Prakash 

Speakers:

Akshay Kapur

Neelakantha Bhanu

Akshay Kapur

Welcome to the Sony Pictures Networks Go-Beyond Podcast, where we go beyond the squareroots and differentials and uncover the extraordinary.

I’m your host Akshay Kapur and joining us today on the show we have a master of a subject that has probably both amazed and put the fear of God in your heart at some point in your academic career. 

Marvelous, mystical, and menacing is the subject of Mathematics, and it takes a special kind of motivation to make and break 4 world and 50 Limca records for speed calculations. Well, that’s just the kind of motivation that our guest today has. 

At just 15 he became the world’s fastest human calculator, breaking the previous records of Shakuntala Devi and Scott Flansburg. At 20 he won Gold for India at the World Math Olympiad. And today, at 23, he runs his very own edu-tech start-up, Bhanzu, with a mission to eradicate math phobia around the world.

It is a distinct pleasure to welcome the man who BBC News dubbed the “Usain Bolt of Mathematics”, Neelkantha Bhanu Prakash!

So Bhanu I thought we could start off with an extremely broad question. Can you describe a day in the life of the fastest human calculator?

Neelakantha Bhanu

Yeah, that's an interesting question. I think it was different when I was training to be one and I think it's slightly different today. When I was training it was as rigorous as what a sportsperson's day would look like. It involved a lot of practice, a training regimen, a lot of finding your method around, how do you become better every single day pushing the limits of your cognition and that's pretty much what my day was - trying to beat the day before. 

Fast forward to today, my day currently is about building Bhanzu, which is a math education company where I capture my learnings becoming the world's fastest human calculator and make sure that these learnings can actually be replicated in students across the world. So today my day looks like handling a team of 500 people building curriculum which is here to change how people look at mathematics.

Akshay Kapur

I think that's quite a interesting switch and growing up, did you have to change the way you looked at the subject or did you always have an affinity towards the subject?

Neelakantha Bhanu

My encounter with mathematics has been rather very interesting. I was a regular school going kid who was 5-years old and was pretty good at math, was not fantastic at it. I don't think anyone was good at math like every other child is but, a series of events led me to be introduced to mathematics in a very different way. 

I met with an accident when I was 5 and I was bedridden for an entire year and my parents were told that Bhanu might actually have some problem with regards to cognitive stimulation in the times to come. And more like a survival need I was introduced to the world of puzzles and mathematics to keep myself engaged. I was introduced to mathematics through the world of solving tricky questions through the world of solving mind problems. So, I had a rather very interesting incubation with the subject of mathematics. 

Akshay Kapur

Right! You talked about puzzles, and we started by talking about your daily routine today. But what got you hooked into competitive mathematics and breaking records I mean puzzles is one thing, but competing on puzzle mathematics or math-based Olympiads is a totally different ballgame right? How did that transition happen?

Neelakantha Bhanu

So, Akshay it didn’t happen overnight. I was introduced to puzzles etc… But I was 5 years of age I slowly went on to be a regular school going kid who did everything which academic asked you do. Little did I know that I've actually come back to this field a little later.

This is when I actually came across speed math competition which was being conducted across the state. I was born and brought up in Hyderabad, India and there is this regional championship which was about being able to do quick calculations which caught my parents’ eye. Being introduced to this I realized that solving math questions or going behind doing a certain set of calculations quicker than anyone else is very similar to what sports were. I was someone who was very inclined to sports as a child. I absolutely love the competitiveness, the adrenaline rush which you get when you sort of score better against another team or an individual, so maths games was pretty similar I was introduced to that through a competition which was regional capacity back in 2007 and I went to my first championship and not phenomenal at it. I finished fourth in state, and I think what I took back from that was speed mathematics and doing quick calculations in your mind, which is being able to do addition subtraction multiplication division quickly in your mind is like giving it the challenge to grow incrementally every day. 

Now that I look back into it, I am trying to analyze it. But I think back in the day it was just hey this looks nice! I love solving and I would want to become better at this. So, what happened was a series of competitions which I went to um, understanding every concept or every kind of speed mathematical training regimen there is and there exists. Not only in India but across the world and I think that journey from me being that eight-year-old who just went into a regional competition to let's say a eleven-year old who won the national championship in speed arithmetic and at the age of 13 being someone who won the international speed arithmetic championship that happened through me finding out that I loved mathematics, not just as something which I would love to be taught. But as something which I would want to compete in and prove that I can do better than a lot of other people.

Akshay Kapur

Right? So, it was it the winning that made you fall in love with mathematics, or do you think it was the love for mathematics that made you pursue the wins?

Neelakantha Bhanu

I think winning keeps you going it never is the motivator and it never is the hook. I think my efforts are giving back the respective outcomes. But I think what I loved was the process of being able to do a big multiplication or a big addition in your head.

It's sort of like a superpower, it's like you are training your mind to do things which people otherwise tag impossible. So, it's pushing your limit, humanity's limit a little forward every single time and I think that was fun right? I do tell people when I catch up with them was that doing quick calculations just like running and sprinting. What people who love about running is not just winning but it's actually the process of them running and feeling exhilarated by their surroundings and the way they move past. It's the pleasure which I think, you derive by being immersed into something so much that the world around you slows down.

Akshay Kapur

(laughs) I like the analogy especially given the fact that you are essentially the flash of mathematics in the world today and yeah, it's interesting to me the way you've explained this process to us because you often look at people who break world records and you're like wow they broke that world record. You hold 4 world records, you hold 50 Limca records and what doesn't always get spoken about is the actual training routine that you went through to sharpen those skills, in order to achieve these amazing goals and you talked about you know it was a process and you started with puzzles.

Could you tell us what kind of work went in behind the scenes? You talked about sprinting as an analogy one thing is very obvious so as part of your training routine as a sprinter you have to sprint as someone who's competing in mathematics what kind of like training goes into that?

Neelakantha Bhanu

So Akshay, You need your body to obey, you need to have the stamina to make sure that you go all the way you need to know what gives you the extra edge which is not just your ability to sprint over and over again. But what gives you the unfair advantage. Being a mental athlete or being a mental calculator if you were to solve an addition problem or a subtraction problem or a multiplication problem or a division problem, the problem can be 10-digits big which means that it demands your mind to be able to visualize 10 numbers in the head and for you to process them, it requires you to have phenomenal working memory which can be trained by being able to memorize things quickly being able to iterate through things quickly and all of this by let's say towards the end I need to read a question, analyze it and give an answer. My ability to read a question, my visual sensory precision has to be better which means the way I look, process and say put the answer down he entire structure of it requires you to challenge a lot of your cognitive abilities.

You might know the method to do a calculation quicker but for you to be someone who does that quicker than anyone else in the world. You need to understand that method by breaking it down towards what in your brain, what in your mind does this question demand for it to become easier than it is for a lot of people, right? It's very similar to how human beings have mastered the art of creating computers. Back in the day of 16 bit or an 8-bit computer could do so much but a 64-bit computer can do so much more today and the RAM which we've created is able to let's say put virtual reality in front of us, right? So the entire trajectory is to actually incrementally update your mind hardware, contextualize it to read better, process better and the entire rigor of getting there is so beautiful that it makes you change the way you look at the world around you. You stop looking at things as linear process inputs and linear process outputs. 

You look at how radial and how three dimensional the world is around you when it comes to how you perceive information, process information, and come up with answers because the world is dictated by patterns and mental mathematics and Mathematicians do just that right! Read into patterns quicker than anyone else. There were days when I used to remember um, looking at a newspaper and say can I read this entire article in 20 seconds and then come up with a gist. Can I do that in 10? Can I do that in 5? so that you are challenging your eyes right? You're challenging your eyes and your mind to perceive. 

Akshay Kapur

Right?

Neelakantha Bhanu

It's not just mathematics. so you just have to sit with a pencil and a pen or and a paper to solve all day. It's actually challenging your mind.

Akshay Kapur

Right. Is there any practical example from like in your life. How like you looked at something just out there in the world differently because of the fact that you started breaking down these complex mathematical problems into simple patterns like you said?

Neelakantha Bhanu

Akshay, absolutely because mental mathematics is one of the closest ways in which a human being can develop their cognitive abilities. In fact, that's what I actually speak about when I talk about education. Today I'm an entrepreneur who has let's say moved beyond being the fastest human calculator and I have been a stage performer I've performed 500 plus stage shows conducted more than 2500 classes, traveled across the world talking about math, but I would see that my training in maths has given me the unfair advantage of picking up new skills quickly. 

Akshay Kapur

Wow!

Neelakantha Bhanu

If X happens Y happens? Why does Z change the way it does? so parametrically thinking you are a better individual to factor in things, you stop thinking linearly or or two dimensionally you don't look at only single degree logic, but you look at how multiple things factor into you taking a decision.

So, I would say that the best mental calculators or mind sport athletes are better decision makers. They're quicker on their feet when it comes to let's say contouring a new subject or a new problem thrown at them and you have the ability to take multiple point of views very quickly which means that I can look at you from the point of view of what a Bhanu would let's say look at the same problem and saying in the absence of this knowledge how would I look at this which makes you even more empathetic to be honest. So, I think there's a lot of wins when it comes to understanding mathematics and being able to process things in a fairly Innovative manner.

Akshay Kapur

Wow! I think that really like gives me a holistic sort of perspective of the way you know training for competitive math has actually helped change your perspective. But I have to ask you, when you were in school, what was the subject that you had a fear of or like that you least liked?

Neelakantha Bhanu

I have been surprised by this and I think one of the subjects which I had a very big and a tough time while in school was to actually understand and memorize historical facts and let's say history as a subject to begin with, but I've actually grown my fondness towards understanding history a lot more now. That's probably because of the way it was put in front of me I would not blame the subject as much because I think for me it was here's a bunch of facts which you need to remember and replicate. I'm not going to talk about what caused what and what led to what but I'm going to give you 10 sets of information which I would want you to replicate when you go into an exam, that's probably how I was introduced to it. 

Akshay Kapur

Right

Neelakantha Bhanu

That's why I was bad at it and I think that's what this? Ah, there's always a negative side towards you being good at second degree thinking is that you don't accept facts. You're not okay with accepting facts without logic which is why you're significantly worse often than someone who can accept that fact. Which is what I usually used to complain for a fairly long time. But I think as I grew and went to St. Steven's college in New Delhi which was fairly what do we say widespread college in terms of what majors had offered and interacted with multiple history majors have realized that second degree thinking is even more applicable than you move into social sciences. So, I would say I was introduced to it bad which is why I was bad at it. 

But today there is a lot more, because I think when you want to excel in any different field right? Be it STEM or be it social sciences, art, music or whatever other fields, rational thinking and building buttons up by not accepting facts but programmatically saying here's a bunch of things which we know and here's how you can infer the latter parts of the subject from it, That's sort of a skill set which a Mathematician builds, makes you understand and empathize with every subject now, but as a school child I was bad at history.

Akshay Kapur

(laughs) well we can say that it's a good thing that then that history and school is now history for you right?

Neelakantha Bhanu

(laughs)

Akshay Kapur

But ah, but it's good to know that what you're saying is that it creates a foundation later on in life. You are able to grow even with history like your appreciation for it changed and it grew and actually I asked you that question with a bit of an ulterior motive. We know that your mission with Bhanzu is to eradicate the fear of mathematics. So with this in mind, What do you feel is the biggest factor that contributes to young children developing the fear of mathematics? You talked with history. You talked about the way it was taught is that the same thing with math?

Neelakantha Bhanu

Absolutely I think if you're lucky you get a great context when you were introduced to the world of mathematics and most of the people are not lucky. 3 out of every 4 students across the world are scared of mathematics and not saying that the remaining one is good at it. That's because math which is taught in schools goes with the following set of ideas, here's a definition please learn it, here's the formula, please remember it and here's a bunch of questions which I'm going to throw at you which you will have to solve.

Akshay Kapur

(Laughs)

Neelakantha Bhanu

Right? It never is about how I’m equipping you with a toolkit which you're to use to let's say build something. It's more about here's bunch of facts here's something that you know and here's something which you should remember regardless of what happens whether you can make sense out of it or not, right? 

That's the general theme of how mathematics is taught which is why I don't think it's a problem that people are scared of mathematics. if I were to give you a quick example Akshay, think of a seven-month or a six-month baby who just discovered their love for chocolates. Let's assume they probably don't know what chocolates are, but they know that they taste well, and they know how to crawl. Imagine putting the child in the center of a room with 2 chocolates on one end and 1 chocolate on another the baby walks towards the 2 chocolates.

That's because the baby intuitionally knows that 2 is greater than one. It's way more human centered the fact of identifying quantities and making relationships out of them, right? 

It's historically you observe that you don't require mathematical teaching to be understanding quantities which is why I would go ahead to an extent and say children pick up mathematics before even language, right? They pick up the ideas of quantities even before they pick up the way to communicate with the world around you. 

But today if I talk about how many people are scared of languages. How many people are scared of English how many people are scared of Hindi? Not many, but people and children are scared of mathematics this is because the objectives of teaching language to a child was never about how can you get 100 marks in your exam. It was never about how can you get a 10-grade point in your exam. It was more about how you can communicate with the world around you? It was about how you can understand stories. I think that's because human beings thrive when it's about themselves. We are very narcissistic that way right? 

Akshay Kapur

(Laughs)

Neelakantha Bhanu

We don't associate language outcomes to grades. We associate language outcomes to the journey of being better at it. We don't ask a child to start reading dictionary on day one and start talking after they finish reading the dictionary. We actually say you don't have to look at the dictionary you can talk to me, right? 

The reverse happens when it comes to mathematics. You take away their license to go experiment and solve. Imagine a child who's just learning English being told you need to remember every definition in the dictionary, and then I will allow you to speak, the child will never speak right? That is because you don't give them context nor do you give them confidence which is where students across the world fear mathematics because there is no context. Phenomenal things can happen when you give children the context and confidence that's how we believe at Bhanzu right?

That's what we do which is you make children get confident in mathematics by making them quicker and better at doing calculations. Imagine a 6-year old being able to do 876 multiplied by 8 in their mind and exactly knowing how it works. It can do wonders with the child's confidence and then making the child understand the concepts which are around them and apply it in more relevant fields which is science technology, engineering, music, art, social sciences, etc… because any toolkit is worth nothing if you don't show me where to use it right?

The sort of environment which we don't usually get children into which is why students across the world are scared of mathematics and that's a big problem because when you're scared of mathematics then you don't understand why Mathematics make sense, if you don't understand why mathematics makes sense, then you dissociate from the subject. Arithmetic is one of the best ways to exercise your brain. So, you lose out on that opportunity and over time you dehumanize mathematics as a subject which is like you're not given any other chance and finally, how good are you at mathematics you would determine your career progression when it comes towards how you'd want to go be a part of the STEM fields or build businesses or be the financial leader of tomorrow. The gap between dreams and competence when it comes to STEM carriers is the mathematics you know, and this is where a lot of people miss out because I can be a child who's fascinated when I look up at the sky and look at the stars and say I want to be an astronaut. But who's going to tell the child that you can't do that without knowing your definite integrals right? That's what I would say Mathematics is the bridge between dreams and competence and we failed as a society historically to actually make sure that we handle this with utmost care.

Akshay Kapur

That is a fair assessment. For me personally Calculus Level 2 was my threshold beyond which I could not surmount mathematically speaking but, you know I was going to ask you about like room for improvement in the way Mathematics is currently taught in schools. But I think you've already answered that question. What I'm sort of left with is you know I wanted to get a sense of any direct example that you might have like we can take anything like multiplication tables that you learn in school or take Calculus as an example since you talked about differentials for becoming an astronaut. Do you have like any sort of case study or an example of like the students who have come to Bhanzu and anything that you've seen the way in which like they have interpreted. You know like you said other fields that they wanted to go on and pursue be it in sciences. Be it in Economics. Be it in business etc. Arts. even.

Neelakantha Bhanu

Absolutely, as I would maybe take a step back and talk about what according to me makes a child learn mathematics in a fun way. I think point one is that the onus is on the educator to treat mathematics as a friendly subject. Learners can actually have an experience of the subject being more interesting if they're given context about the history of how mathematical learning has evolved because while it's very intuitional that mathematics exists today. A lot of it has been built because of human evolution. The discovery of zero is as impactful on human evolution as the invention of a wheel or the discovery of fire was right? It's as intrinsic to us, we would not have been able to record this podcast had that not happened, its as simple as that right? or not let the people here listening to this be able to do that. There would be no TikTok, there would be no Instagram, there would be no video games, there would be no TV, there would be not everything which is digital nature among other things. 

Akshay Kapur

Right.

Neelakantha Bhanu

So um, If you strike this chord with the student then the student is convinced of the importance of any concept the moment that layer is established. They're receptive to learning more that is the chronology which is you make math friendly. Because every child is a creator, every child is an innovator at heart and you just have to light it up for magic to happen. I think we've seen that in our journey with Bhanzu which is children being introduced to binary numbers being asked questions like why does the number 10 come after number 9? If I were to ask everyone who's listening to this why does the number one zero come up to number nine. why?

Akshay Kapur

I wouldn't know. 

Neelakantha Bhanu

Why is it not 0 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 a b c d e f g h I j k l m o and then 10 right that does not have its answers in logic answer to that question is more biological in nature located the number of fingers you have on your hand. That's the answer that's because human beings felt hey here's how I'm counting I have ten fingers. So, I'm running out of symbols to give for me to be more convenient I'm going to call this 10 which is one zero.

So, the number 10 um is not an outcome of human beings rather discovering that the number 10 exist asit actually came out from the fact that we had 10 fingers and human beings felt that that's the best proxy to invent numbers, the same ideas when you translate to a child and ask them questions of should it have really been 10 what if human beings had just 7 fingers? What if they are just 6 right? What if they just had 2 you can actually nudge the child into creating alternate number systems which means that they are questioning the nature of how things are being built? You're building a curious individual And the moment you say what if I just had one finger? How would you count? 

The child actually discovers binary numbers which is the way computers function among each other. A very structured nudge from a story to a child encountering computer science through mathematics and them being introduced to the world of computers through a nudge like this, is a phenomenal impact because this prepares the child into understanding that the maths you know is the computer science. You know the better math. You become an AI scientist the even better, become the person who recommends those videos or those podcasts which you might like, right.

Akshay Kapur

Right.

Neelakantha Bhanu

So, I think you make children curious, and I think this is one of the case studies if I would want to talk about the other being that once a child is equipped with mental math skills. It is about being able to do quick calculations in their mind we have seen them actually go back to school and say I know how math is done I'm good at it I'm actually here to ask you why? I'm going to ask you why to every single question you ask me, and I think every single thing which you tell me I'm going to ask you why? And if I get that reasoning well, then I'm going to accept that fact, then you've created a thinker and that thinker is not going to stop today, that thinker is not going to stop tomorrow that thinker is not going to stop until they make a huge, stride forward into being the innovator of tomorrow. 

How do you nudge people intobeing someone who's good at mathematics through structured curriculum like what we do at Bhanzu, it's by leaving lose ends which would want students to tie themselves, so that they feel that hey I know this it's not by spoon feeding everything which you need to know, it's by giving them enough so that they can question how they are to learn in the times to come.

Akshay Kapur

I think that's very interesting the way you said that the students in the first case study come up with alternate number systems and they end up discovering binary numbers, which is the world of computer science and Bhanu as we're nearing the end of the conversation here. There are just ah, 2 more questions I want to get your opinion on does that then mean that the world of mathematics for humanity as we know it today is it a discovery? Or is it an invention?

Neelakantha Bhanu

I think we've discovered the need of numbers very early into civilization. But it would go without saying that we've invented it I think let's be proud about it right? I think humanity in general has created what it did to take those strides forward. Animals understand quantities animals understand a certain sense of counting, but we have taken that a long-long way from being people who counted on sticks and drew tally marks to let's say a civilization today which is self-sustenant to that extent and know so much about the universe. I think we should give us a pat on our back and say that math today as you see is an invention, which I think humanity should be most proud of and I don't think any other invention comes close.

Akshay Kapur

Bhanu, as we end the near the end of our conversation today, wanted to ask you, any takeaways that you have for our listeners about the subject of Mathematics that you think could help change the way they view the subject going into the future?

Neelakantha Bhanu

Um, yeah, So Akshay I believe and I think is true is that every student and every individual out there regardless of their age, regardless of where they are in their professional career, regardless of what kind of education they've gone through, is capable of learning and loving Mathematics. There's no individual who's good and who's bad at mathematics and I think once you truly believe that you stop looking at this as mathematics being just defined by a bunch of assessments which have been put up by education institutions. 

You start looking at it as a true human experience, right? You start looking at it as - I'm good at one kind of math and you can be at another, and I think once we start believing that and we stop measuring Mathematical success with only understanding about how we get better grades, that's when our progress towards a society which has eradicated global math phobia would begin. 

My journey as the world's fastest human calculator is to bring together as much intel, information and context as I scale Bhanzu to be the world's largest math education company which can make such an experience possible. What I would say is for every parent who's listening to this, the evaluation of how your child does in mathematics by a school, by an institution might not be accurate and most likely is not if you create a fun-loving experience to make them learn mathematics by narrating stories, I think you can get them hooked. 

If you do not know how, you can actually go see what we do in Bhanzu. And if you're a student who has just started out on their journey into discovering higher mathematics then I would encourage you to ask – “Why do I care?” If people teaching you can answer that question, they're great people, if they cannot then I think you can find better resources to study from and if there is no answer to that, then I think you should discover more.

The biggest custodians towards making mathematics an exclusive subject and not something which everyone's good at are mathematicians themselves. I think human beings in general can do a lot better thanlearning from a bunch of people who thought that they're good. Though if I were to summarize this in one sentence it would be every student and every human being is capable of learning and loving mathematics and it all starts with if you ask, “Why do I care?” and get your answers and I think you will have the best experience into the subject.

Akshay Kapur

Perfect! I think on that note Bhanu, thank you so much for taking the time to join us on the Go-Beyond Podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure speaking with you today and I do hope that our listeners can take your message to heart and that the future generations definitely will have less of a math phobia than we saw in our classrooms growing up.

Neelakantha Bhanu

Absolutely looking forward to it! Thank you. Akshay.