Planting hope: George Remedios’ quest for eco-sustainability through food forests

In a city with a rapidly dwindling green cover, comes a hero planting several man-made ‘food forests’ — a diverse planting of edible plants that attempts to mimic the ecosystems and patterns found in nature. With a remarkable passion for working with the earth, George Remedios left his job in advertising of almost a decade to become a full-time environmentalist and the founder of The Turning Tide Foundation, to combat climate change through social initiatives. Today, George has successfully created food forests, planting over 2,600 trees by tying up with orphanages, old age homes, while also helping communities like the tribals of Yeoor hills among others benefit from the harvest. This innovative initiative prevents waterlogging, managing waste that ends up in landfills, and helps create a source of income for vulnerable communities.

Tune in as we dive into George’s journey of helping positively impact the biodiversity through waste management in urban areas, and indigenous communities by turning the tide, one sapling at a time 

Transcript

Speakers:

AK: Akshay Kapur

GR: George Remedios  

AK:  

Welcome to the Sony Pictures Networks Go Beyond podcast where we plunge our hands into the soil to uncover the extraordinary. I'm your host Akshay Kapur, and today we are joined in conversation by a man with a remarkable passion for working with the earth. With a deep-rooted love for nature in steal from a young age, he quit his job as an advertising professional nine years ago, to be a full-time environmentalist. The journey led to him founding the Turning Tide now known as ‘Turning Tide Foundation’, an organization that drives impact through the power of food forests. Through his tireless efforts, he has not only supported the growth of the green footprint but has also provided a sustainable source of food for local, rural and indigenous communities.

His unwavering dedication to his cause is evident in the way that he has utilized his personal savings, network, and resources, to kickstart this endeavor. It is a true pleasure to welcome George Remedios to the Go Beyond Podcast. George, welcome to the podcast and I think we should dive right in with the first question. And that is what inspired you to leave your corporate job and dedicate yourself to environmental causes?

GR:  

Akshay, thanks so much for having me over here. Thanks to Sony also for having me on. And, you know, also helping us talk about the environment which is something that we need to do more of. So, I've always had a love for nature, the environment, plants, trees, birds, squirrels running around and, you know living in one of the oldest societies in Bombay we had a lot of birdlife at least about 15-16 varieties that I could identify in my own housing society.  

AK:

Right. 

GR:

So, I was drawn to nature, and I've had my mom who's suffered from asthma for as long as I can remember. So, watching her suffer especially, you know during Diwali when there were a lot of crackers, and I was party to it too not proud of but that's just what we did back then. There wasn't, you know a lot of awareness back then.

AK:

Right.

GR:

I just needed to take a stand because I was fed up of the air quality, rising temperatures because roughly around 25-years ago, in the afternoon in the month of May we could play cricket on the ground. I’m not saying it wasn't hot, but now it’s next to impossible. 

So, there was a change that needed to happen and we just needed to do something about it.

AK:

Right but was there a pivotal experience which helped you decide what you want to do the moment you decided to take this switch off profession?

GR:

So, from the time I was a kid, we’re originally from Goa, Goa still does have a lot of, you know greenery and wildlife and stuff around. You know big, huge species like tigers and stuff which are there, but you still see a lot of peacock Porcupine, wild boar, various birds and trees, right? I've always wanted to bring a bit of that to Bombay from the time I was a kid. It was a kid's childhood dream kind of a thing. My inner child was still strong, and I just needed to kind of make a difference.

AK:  

Right. Well, that's lovely to hear. And now that you are making a big difference through food forests, can you start by telling us a little bit about how the concept of permaculture aligns with the mission of Turning Tide Foundation and how maybe just start by explaining what Permaculture is for our listeners before getting into how it aligns with the work that you do. 

GR:

Sure, so Permaculture is all about permanence in agriculture. Now, I got drawn into that not because I wanted to get pro agriculture, we need more trees. That was the whole point of things. However, in order to kind of get more trees going, it's better to work initially with institutions. When I was in Bombay, I found that an easier route because they had some kind of staff to look after them, because you couldn't be or rather, I couldn't be in 10 places at one time, but we could help people align with, you know, the whole cause of having more trees by helping them grow more. And why food forest? Because your fruit tree is not only a tree, it's also a flowering tree before a fruiting tree. So, it's going to feed pollinators and it's going to have a fresh air with some kind of birds, squirrels in the city and if it's outside city, maybe monkeys or when food falls down, could be wild boar, could be porcupine, could be deer, could be a whole host of animals.

So initially I started off in the city and gradually, you know, have the opportunity to create these spaces and other places as well through you know, partner organisations since I do a lot of work with Hope Foundation, one of the best NGOs in the country, one of the cleanest NGOs and very passionate people that have allowed me to kind of take this food forest concept all the way down to Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, and also, you know, tribal landswhere we were able to really make a difference in the lives of people right from orphanages to age homes, farmers, and even tribals who, you know because of situations have to switch over to agrarian cultures. So, permaculture fits in beautifully well, because it's a whole bunch of natural systems that come together, it's kind of beyond organics. 

AK:

Interesting!

GR:

There’s no chemicals, there is fresh air with nature, the ethics and ethos of it are just beautiful. 

AK:

Right, Can you elaborate a little more about how these food forests contribute to the biodiversity and how they positively impact the waste management in urban areas, as well as then we can get to talking about how they impact the indigenous communities after that. 

 GR:

Sure! So that's actually a wonderful point you raised because waste management is at the forefront of it.

AK:

Interesting!

GR:

So, the whole game over here has to do with soil, and why I got stuck into permaculture is because it's figuring out what was going wrong with certain saplings. And was it something I was doing incorrectly in the beginning the led to a few losses, because there was enough care being taken. But we still had maybe 10 - 15% losses. Then I started trying to pay attention to soil and then gradually soil led to composting, composting led to mulching, mulching led to add more organic matter to the soil. And we then figured out the whole game is the soil. 

AK:

Right? 

GR:

Right. And it's kind of like gut bacteria.

AK:

Absolutely. 

GR:

So, for instance, if I have a plate full of something really delicious to eat, is that going to directly give me the energy? No! It's the microbiology that's in my gut. 

AK:

Absolutely. It's the microbiology that breaks it down.

GR:  

Right. So, in the same way, in the soil its the bacteria, the fungi, the microbes, that process everything even the most basic thing that we've learned of trees giving us oxygen taking in carbon, what really happens with that carbon. It's released, down in the microbes that process it, and give it back to the trees so they can absorb it and create all the structures like leaves, bark, branches, then finally when the life cycle is over, drops it to the ground.

AK:

Right. 

GR:

I know forest. You know, it's God's designed design and there is no gardener has, you know, to sweep it away, so it breaks down. And that's how you have this thing known as a carbon sink.  Carbon gets returned back to the soil.

AK:  

Right. And I have to follow up with an interesting question over there. We're talking about the microbiome in the soil and in modern agriculture, we studied this in you know in school biology, also about having the right chemicals, right compounds, different types of nitrogen and carbon compounds in the soil, phosphorus added to the soil to improve soil quality. Where's the correlation here? What is the difference between doing it the permaculture way or the organic way, using organic waste as opposed to using chemicals or industrial fertilizers? What is your view on where these two align, where these two differ? 

GR:

So that's an excellent question. So. chemicals basically focus only on three main nutrients for the soil. 

AK:

Okay 

GR:

N P and K - nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus. 

AK:

Right. 

GR:

Now there are many more nutrients that you know are plant available in natural forms. They may not have the same potency as a chemicalized additive. However, when you work on soils and you keep adding the organic matter, you keep adding different types of manures you are able to kind of bring the land back in homeostasis. So, you might not have in the beginning, you might not have exactly the same amounts of productivity in terms of hoping and things like that. But organic farmers, especially in the US have proved that over a six-year cycle, they're able to come on power.

AK:  

Interesting. So, you are saying there is a compounding effect to actually doing things the organic way. 

GR:

Yes. And when you know, apply permaculture principles to monocultures. So, agriculture today says, Oh! I'm only going to grow wheat or only going to grow rice in one patch. So interestingly enough, we've been experimenting last couple of years with banana circles.

AK:  

Interesting 

GR:

Banana circles are basically a big pit that you dig out about a meter deep in the center. Now Akshay, these develop as composting pits in the center and when you compost, you can add large volumes of organic matter like fallen leaves, twigs, and stuff like that into the soil. When the rains come, subsequent monsoons and so it's a little longer term composting method, it gradually breaks down because you thrown a little bit of liquid fertilizer, or a bit of you know, cow dung broken down into more water making so you make it more bioavailable and gradually it all rots down, breaks down into kind of nutrients that can be applied to the soil it forms a sponge.

When the rains come these pits also double up as rainwater infiltration pits. Roots of the banana plants and we mix them up with papayas, Moringa trees, or for that matter, you can have turmeric growing, you can have sweet potatoes, you can have tapioca, you can have trees growing a whole host of things on the bund, the circular wallets created from the soil that's pulled out from there.

AK:

Interesting 

GR:

And trees and plants would work with one another. So individually, they may not give you the amount of production that you would get in a monoculture thing with chemicals. However, collectively, they give you many more harvests. And this helps you know communities that are vulnerable, like tribals and farmers to climate change, because even in unseasonal weather event, you may lose one crop or two crops, but there will always still be something.

AK:  

Absolutely. And so we're going to pull on that thread a little further in a minute. But I do want to ask you speaking of this, the biodiversity and the structure of these permaculture farms and having different crops as opposed to monoculture, is there a strategy that you can use where you select crops that can support each other's existence as well? Is that something that fits into this permaculture structure? 

GR:

Yes, they do. One observation that we've noticed in the orphanage where we've done a food forest project in Tamil Nadu, we've noticed flat beans — what we consider ‘papdi’ over here up north, what they call ‘awrai’ down south — seem to be pushing away pests that attack brinjals sapling that are planted in the center of same garden bed. 

AK:

Wow! interesting. 

GR:

So what’s happening then that there are certain plants that will repel other pests. For instance, basil works really well with tomatoes. They help in terms of increasing enhancing the flavor profile, 

AK:

Right. 

GR:

They also repel certain pests.

AK: 

I was just gonna say it seemed it seems like they work well, not just in a pasta sauce. 

GR:

No, no (laughs)

AK:

Right, which is which it's fascinating to hear. Since you work so closely with soil, I have to ask you, what does working with the earth really mean to you?

GR:

It literally means everything! Because you get connected, grounded. It's definitely destressing. So, it’s brought a lot of calm in my life. I remember going through my early years in college, you know, kind of walking few kilometers just so that I could buy a plant, go ahead and plant it somewhere in my building in a pot or in an old bottle or somewhere in the garden. That would give me peace. It helped me be calm.

AK:

Okay. It's interesting. And when you say it grounds you and it makes you feel calmer, there's a lot of talk about, you know, connecting with the earth even from a scientific perspective. There are some there's talk in the community today about whether or not there are actually scientific benefits to us, you know, being barefoot, or putting our hands on the ground or putting our hands in the soil standing in the ocean. Is there an element of that that you've noticed? Is there any research that you've come across that talks about the positive benefits? 

GR:

I've spoken with friends who are psychologist, there is definitely a connection. I cannot elaborate on it since I am not an expert on psychology. What they've told me is there's definitely a release of serotonin.

AK:

Interesting. 

GR:

Serotonin is a hormone that has a calming effect. And that's something I've experienced. I've had volunteers, friends of mine who have come in, partaken in it. They're also saying the same thing. Same kind of emotions, some kind of calm feelings.

AK:

And I'm sure that when you get your hands dirty, and especially when you talk about having organic feed for the soil, we're talking about composting, the one thing you can't avoid is other than the smell of decomposing organic material is the creepy crawlies, the bugs and all the insects that come along with it. Is this something that you were used to from the get go? Or is it something you had to develop a comfort with? How would you speak to someone who has either blatophobia or entomophobia, and overcoming this when they have to work with the soil?

GR:

So, Akshay, interestingly enough, when the moisture levels are right, and things are decomposing in a compost pile, the smell is not found. 

AK:

Oh interesting!

GR:

And this is something I found later, in fact, you get a sweet smell out of it. 

AK:

Oh lovely! 

GR:

And people have called me crazy for saying this. I thought I was crazy until I stuck my head into a compost bin that I had created, (Akshay Laughs) which has the right kind of moisture level. Because if it's if it's above 30% moisture level or green matter — what they consider — you are going to get a foul smell because of the whole breakdown process. If it's too dry, it wont break down the fish or meat. Or it will take very long to breakdown. 

So basically, we take a whole pile of leaves, and you put them in a pit and make them go to through monsoon and stuff. It will take between six months to a year to fully biodegrade. Okay? Even longer. We've seen certain cases, because see it's amazing how God’s created leaves. He created them to be porous, so, when you really want composting to happen fast, the leaves need to be crushed, When you crush a leaf — a dry leaf — you’re opening up a surface area.

AK:

Ah, interesting. 

GR:

And then it rots more efficiently. And, you need to have the right percentage of moisture. That it's a beautiful process. Now, when it comes to insects, your question about the insects.

AK:

And worms! 

GR:

I've always been very curious. And yes, initially, it was a little uncomfortable when I was maybe three or four. But my dad did something wonderful when I was a kid. So, in order for me not to be afraid of soil or insects and stuff, he made me pick up snails, put them on his hand, let them crawl. This was to show me that listen this is safe, you don't need to worry about it. He also showed me to stay away from the dangerous ones like centipedes. 

AK:

Right.

GR:

So right from the start, you know, having surroundings like plants and trees around us, we were more in tune with nature. It's sad to see kids nowadays. They can't tell the difference between a mango leaf and probably an Ashoka leaf. Which is sad!

AK:

(laughs) No, it definitely brings me to a question which I am curious about, who do you feel is the most critical stakeholder for the longevity of your mission? 

GR:

The most critical stakeholder would be vulnerable communities like tribals, farmers, because they get to play this game on a much, much bigger scale. You see, they have open land.

AK:

Right. 

GR:

And open land means many more trees that can be planted. 

AK:

Right. (laughs)

GR:

So there’s the whole thing of you know, crop cycles, the waste material, instead of getting burned, converted to compost, returned back to the soil that reduce the amount of water requirements that are needed, increase the nutrient profiles, definitely help biodiversity. Biodiversity is not the creatures about the soil only. It's also to do with millions and billions in the soil, even at a microscopic level. And we might find that little odd, right?

So Akshay, it's kind of like the life on a beach. it's all crabs – all crabs, fiddler crabs, you have various other types of mussels and things like that and all life in the sand that basically affect the amount of sand and the tidal patterns. In the same way microbiology in the soil is so important not only to feeding the trees and seeing to the health of these trees, making, you know sugars, minerals, all that stuff available to plants. But there are also many creatures that go into the subterranean surface to feed off these insects. And many of these insects that come out climb up the plants. Like for instance, during lockdown one thing that I noticed was a lot of moths were pupating in the mulched soils. So basically, the soil where we left the leaves became their hope.

AK:

Interesting. 

GR:

One of the biggest mistakes that we can make is sweeping the soil and clearing the leaves. The leaf litter is another part of the ecosystem that you know needs to be replicated in many moreplaces. 

Now those same moths would feed birds, rats, rodents, and so many other creatures. So, it’s a whole ecosystem. 

AK:

So, it's interesting to see you get this knock-on effect that you're talking about. And I'd love to learn a little more about it. So, you talked about how rural communities, farmers, indigenous communities have the land, and they have the potential. Could you tell us a little bit more about how you've seen the food forest positively impact these communities, and how there's been a change in perhaps their perspective on how to utilize the land?

GR:

Certainly, so in this place called Palghar, which is roughly around 100 kilometers away from Mumbai. There is a tribal community that we've been, you know, working with and helping through Hope Foundation. And they've given me the platform, you know, to act on a much bigger level environmentally. 

So what we've done is just on a 1.5 acre plot of land, we applied this technique of these circles –  permaculture circles,  where we added various types of saplings papayas, moringa, banana to begin with. Also, we started off on this plot of land in Jan with cashew saplings. There was this old hill slope that whole hillslope was barren. Barren for decades, because this community relies on the ecosystem in a very, very heavy way. Most of their energy needs comes from burning of biomass, because they need to cut limbs of trees, dry wood. They cannot afford to spend something like about 1100 rupees on a gas cylinder every now and then.

AK:

Right.

GR

It’s too expensive for them. And many of them don't even have access to electricity, to gas, to water; things that we completely take for granted. So, in these places, the benefit that they are seeing is that there are 1.5-acre plot of land that was barren, now, we've gotten roughly about 1100 saplings planted.

AK:

Wow!

GR:

These are short term as well as long term species. So, your cashews will be the nut varieties. Right? bananas are actually a herb, but you know, fruit that you get. The beauty of growing bananas is that there's a lot of biomass that can be composted easily because they're about 80-90% water. 

AK:

Interesting. 

GR:

When added in those pits that we have created, they help biodegrade a lot faster.

AK:

interesting. 

GR:

Now moringa trees will provide drumsticks as well as the leaves that can be done powders in the future for the community to earn from. The bananas can be turned into banana chips in the future when we set up the cooperative for them. We've got papayas growing there, which the community can enjoy. The beauty of that is that it has more biomass that can be composted. 

AK:

Right, right. 

GR:

Later on we will try and put pepper that hopefully will climb up the Moringa trees in future, maybe a year or two down the line. 

AK:

Right because it's a creeper plant, right? 

GR:

Yeah, that’s a creeper. We’ll add turmeric, various other things down below. Plus, we've also got alleyways in which we're gonna do millets and various other types of crops. Even cassava, probably. 

AK:

Which is fascinating! Is the aim of this incredibly dense fruit forest or food forest – on one level it seems to be it's catering to the food needs immediately off the community in some level. But on another side of the spectrum, it seems to be, it's also giving an opportunity for them to do, perhaps a little more business, more trade to earn more income for their entire community?

GR:

That’s correct. That’s the whole objective, and It goes much further because these pits that we have 110 in this 1.5 acre and they are large. They are about eight to ten feet wide. 

AK:

Right.

GR:

Now what’s gonna happen is the organic matter we’ve begun dumping in there gradually, maybe in a year or two it will turn into compost, and it takes roughly about 11 times that volume of biodegrade to form that quantity. So, you can imagine the scale of the composting operation that we can achieve here. When the rains come those will also become water infiltration chambers. So, you will have a lot of water soaking into the landscape. Subterranean landscape will get enough moisture and flow of water, which will help the farmers downhill.

AK:

Right. Right.

GR  

So, we're already touching on watershed management practices. But on a passive scale, it's rainwater harvesting. So suddenly, we've got all these things happening. We're going to be planting seeds of flowers on the boundaries, maybe some citrons will come a little later in the future. We could even have honeybee hives in there. So, there's so much that can be done. But if applied correctly, and you're working with nature you are working with the ecosystem.

AK

Right. I'm curious about your experiences in working with the soil, working with these communities working with some of these food forests. Have you had any interesting experiences how these forests can cater to supporting our efforts to combat climate change other than efforts to combat food security, which we seem to have been speaking of already.

GR

So Akshay, afforestation is something that's definitely required. Food forests and permaculture works with nature and natural systems, so it mimics how the ecosystem actually works. So, it doesn’t damage the land. In fact, it adds more diversity. Now what we’ve noticed maybe just about a month after we planted only the cashew saplings. We started noticing that there were ladybugs coming in. I believe there was nothing here. There was just dry grass. In the monsoon there would come to life with grass, some wild lilies, but that's as far as it went.

AK

I'm gonna push you to perhaps, you know sort of shed a little more detail what is the significance of having these ladybugs?

GR

Ladybugs are actually excellent predator species. They are a good friendly farmer species. So what they do is they will land up eating aphids and various other types of pests that you find attacking plants. And abroad there is an actual industry where they breed ladybugs and supply them to farmers and go and release them in their landscapes, as you know a pest remediation strategy. In a school in Bangalore, we noticed that there were praying mantises. So, I pulled one down and everybody was scared of them but I’ve handled these before so I know that they're not really dangerous. There's a lot of superstition about if you go too close they will pluck your eyes out (laughs) You need to understand that we are atleast a thousand times bigger than them. If you come too close being a bug with you know multi celled eyes you will be an even larger target.. So we got all the kids to come around and it took a little while. Can I have your hand up trust me? And I gradually put them on and before you know it, they didn't want to stop playing with the praying mantises. Now praying mantis’ are another wonderful thing to see because they will catch flies. They will catch wasps they will catch various other pests that come in to attack fruits and vegetables. So, we see them, and we keep them.

 AK  

So, they have a symbiotic relationship to the plants and I guess to what human beings are also desire from these food forests. 

 GR

Even what we consider bloodsuckers, they are not bloodsuckers. They are garden lizards.

AK

Are you talking about Dracula, or mosquitoes? I'm curious.

GR  

Chameleons, basically. (Both laugh)

GR

So, We’ve been always thought to fear them. They are blood suckers and they will suck your blood. No that doesn't happen. They come in and eat a lot of pest and  insects around. So at an orphanage in Tamil, implanting and these are some of the kids that the whole life on the whole nest of eggs they brought in, I wasn't sure what eggs these were. They'd be a type of snake species could there be a lizard or the type of bird eggs, not sure, I thought we were just common lizards. So, I said, listen very carefully, go place them back. It's meant to be the ecosystem. And one of those things happened to kind of hatch. All the kids brought this half hashtag. And this tiny little garden lizard popped out of it. Right, most people will get creeped out. But I’ve begun to have a little bit of an affinity for what's out there in nature. So, I realized from the start that there wasn't anything harmful. So, I picked it up. It was cute little, chameleon. We decided to call it Camilla. (Akshay Laughs) And then we let the kids good look at it and place back on the tree. And you see these kind of garden lizards when they are smaller also feed species for birds. You don't want to go and spring chemicalized pesticides and stuff on. Live and let live and they will help you.

AK 

Right. And we are talking about you know you’re working in these communities, in these gardens, whether it is urban or rural you are encountering these species of wildlife whether it is a praying mantis, the lady bugs or garden lizards and you’re also involved in educating children and the community about the importance of these various creatures. How has your perspective on this changed over time and what role do you feel that the education for young children, children in school plays into the entire mission that we talk about?

GR 

Excellent question Akshay. So, it's a constant cycle of learning. I learn things almost on a weekly basis. And why is it important for children is it's very simple. It's not only children, it's you know, people also.

So, they used to kill the praying mantis in this school in Bangalore. Thinking oh, no, it's a pest! I said, No, yes, it's something that's helping you. So let it be. So the thing is, if you don't understand something, what is it that we fear? We fear things we don't know. If we know what it is, we know what the function and form is, we begin to appreciate or we begin to appreciate them we want to protect. And in doing so we're propagating a whole lot of goodness, not only for the species, not only for the other birds that rely on that as a feed, but also for protection of our own ecosystem.

AK

Hmmn. And speaking of learning about things that we don't know, and understanding the way they fit in who have been some of your biggest educators in your journey, how have you sort of paved the way for yourself, as you've been involved with Turning Tide Foundation, as you've developed more processes for the food forests, and as you've tried to scale these, these permaculture hubs across India?

GR

So, the thing is. There wasn't very much information when I started off about nine years ago, so guys like Geoff Lawton one of the best permaculturists I guess has done a lot of work in Jordon and Gaza, a lot of his videos, a lot of information there to reading about loads of others, books. So, the thing is, I'm always reading even right now, to kind of help tribal reading a book called Margin Lands. So, Akshay there’s another book by one who's become one of my favorite authors, Mridula Ramesh, she wrote a book - the climate solution, that’s a book that has been out there for a while. But it's specific to the changes we can make in the Indian context. So, reading up, checking out videos, trying things out, experimenting, I’ve been through a lot of failures. (Akshay Laughs) Oh yeah, we did this, and this worked! or things don’t, which is a bummer. But that’s alright. For me failure is when you don’t try.

AK 

Which, I like the way you phrase that. And it's interesting to see, because I know you mentioned that I believe it's up to 80% is the is the current yield from the bulk of the permaculture food forests that you've set up? And I'm curious about, we’re talking about marginalized, we're talking about. We've talked about the communities’ impacts, marginalized tribal communities, indigenous populations, rural communities, and even urban populations. And we also talked about how education has played into catering to changing perceptions amongst students, and even amongst adults. Just throwing this out there. What is the theory of change that you've envisioned? Or rather, what is the future that you envision in a perfect world What is what is George Remedios’ perfect world? And then how do you with The Turning Tide foundation, what is your long-term vision for achieving that future?

GR

So, my friends always call me George of the jungle.

AK 

(laughs) Well, it's either that or curious George, but I like George of the jungle.

GR: 

So the perfect future for us will definitely be we'd have opportunities to create more food, forest projects around, have people into the benefits of doing things in a natural manner, which is difficult, because there's a lot of work in the beginning to kind of set the tone, to get things going, you know, permaculture manner. Because it needs a lot of waste management, it needs a lot of inputs into the soil in the beginning, by way of natural method, Right? Which, unfortunately, people have lost knowledge of with the Green Revolution. The Green Revolution has done amazing things for this country. It's taken us from being in food deficit to food surplus, which is wonderful. However, it's kind of killed microbiology, that you know, a lot of chemicals and food that leads to too many issues. And it's sad, take for instance places like Jalgaon, one in five people in those districts over there suffer from some degree of renal failure. And that's because there's no knowledge they are spraying chemical aerosols and various other chemicals that carried the wind and they are inhaling it without suits or masks.

AK:  

Wow. So they're inhaling it and it's getting cross contaminated. Well that is definitely a concern. And definitely, I guess something that education hopefully, and knowledge sharing will hopefully help.

GR:  

See, it's not about us doing things perfectly! It's about many more of us doing things imperfectly and achieving a better situation.

AK:  

Right. And I think that that perfectly keys into the final question that we would like to ask you. Looking back on your journey and seeing the way the foundation has evolved, since when you left your job nine years ago, and started really spending time as a full time environmentalist, working with these projects, working with communities working with the Earth, is there any specific lesson that you have learned any takeaway that you have, that you would like to share with our listeners, something that you think might help change their perspective or catalyze their passion for pursuing an environmentally driven solution?

GR:

Akshay, one thing that I've learned is patience. And also, being curious. There's always something to learn. There's always something new and exciting out there. There is no silver bullet, for remediating the environmental situation or making it better. Technology does have its benefits. But unfortunately, a lot of people are relying too heavily on it. Yes, there are technological solutions that will help us but there's also natural solutions. And that's something that, you know, we need to kind of pay a little more attention to, or at least try on our own personal levels. Be it you know, from gardening on your windowsills or going and putting something down in your own building area or driving an initiative in your own community. Be it composting, be it rainwater harvesting, be it growing something.

The beautiful part about this whole journey is realizing that there is hope there is always a way unless we try, we are not going to succeed. So many of us sit back and wonder, could we have done this? Would we do this? Can I do this? Try. Fail at it. It's okay. It will get better.

AK:

Absolutely. I think, to add, a slice of humour to our conversation; You said earlier that your friends call you George of the jungle, and you've talked about patience and curiosity being two key virtues. So, I guess we can now call you Curious George of the jungle (laughs) So, the two different famous George's from popular media. But with that, George, I think we've come to the end of our conversation today. And I just want to thank you for taking the time to join us here on the Go Beyond Podcast. It's been a true pleasure. And it's been an illuminating conversation with you.

GK:

Thanks so much, Akshay. It’s lovely talking to you.

                                                                           ~ Ends ~