Leaders in Tech and Ecommerce

Dione Song Chief Commercial Officer at Love, Bonito

March 02, 2020 Alcott Global Season 1 Episode 17
Leaders in Tech and Ecommerce
Dione Song Chief Commercial Officer at Love, Bonito
Chapters
Leaders in Tech and Ecommerce
Dione Song Chief Commercial Officer at Love, Bonito
Mar 02, 2020 Season 1 Episode 17
Alcott Global

Dione Song is currently the Chief Commercial Officer at Love, Bonito, Dione is responsible for driving the growth and strategy of their global expansion, fundraising and overseeing the brand's performance, experience and innovation.

Discover more details here.

Some of the highlights of the episode:

  • Growing from a team of 50 to 250 in a span of three years.
  • Understanding customer’s behavior
  • The strength of omnichannel approach 
  • How Love, Bonito chooses their suppliers
  • Using data to automate the entire fashion design process

Follow us on:
Instagram: http://bit.ly/2Wba8v7
Twitter: http://bit.ly/2WeulzX
Linkedin: http://bit.ly/2w9YSQX
Facebook: http://bit.ly/2HtryLd

Show Notes Transcript

Dione Song is currently the Chief Commercial Officer at Love, Bonito, Dione is responsible for driving the growth and strategy of their global expansion, fundraising and overseeing the brand's performance, experience and innovation.

Discover more details here.

Some of the highlights of the episode:

  • Growing from a team of 50 to 250 in a span of three years.
  • Understanding customer’s behavior
  • The strength of omnichannel approach 
  • How Love, Bonito chooses their suppliers
  • Using data to automate the entire fashion design process

Follow us on:
Instagram: http://bit.ly/2Wba8v7
Twitter: http://bit.ly/2WeulzX
Linkedin: http://bit.ly/2w9YSQX
Facebook: http://bit.ly/2HtryLd

Andrei Palamariu:   0:01
Hello and welcome to the leaders in Tech n e commerce podcast. I'm your host, Andre. Problem are you and I am the effect director for Elka Global Executive Search. Our mission is to connect attack in supplication and equal more psycho system in Asia and globally by bringing forward some of the most interesting stories about success and failure from leaders in the industry. I'm very happy to start off Boca Siri's with Dion Song, currently the chief commercial officer of Love. Bonito Dion is responsible for driving the growth and strategy of their global expansion, fund raising and overseeing the brand's performance experience. An innovation. Prior to this, she spent a near it's for a digital heading up the Australia and New Zealand markets and the digital marketing for the region. Before that, she was the managing director of the Lower Singapore. We're apart from leading the team and being responsible for the date of the operations. She spearheaded several notable projects, including the Laura's first foray into click and mortar retail stores. Love Bonito started out as a passion project back in 2006. It has grown exponentially over the last 11 years to become one of Singapore's largest fashion prince. They have secured close to $50 million in USDA. In funding and love. Benito has grown its revenue almost three times from 2016 to 2018. Their ambition extends far beyond this. They want to become the largest woman's lifestyle brand for the modern Asian woman, both in Asia and beyond. Great to have you with us. I know that look when it is the largest direct consumer winning women's wear brand in the region, and I wanted to ask a few questions. So I understand that you spend your days over seeing quite a lot of things from operations to marketing to technology. Tell us a bit about the responsibilities and also what excites you about the company's case.

Dione Song:   1:55
Sure, so, yeah, so intent on my responsibilities, I guess it's a mishmash if I get a few different functions, right? Really complimenting also what co founder is doing all right. So she, on one hand, will receive a lot of the bread right and community elements. Then I cover some of the best, right, basically ensuring that nothing goes wrong, right that expansion and girl started happens. This plan is Well, so that's out of the old roll purview, including a small country teams and market teacher in Hong Kong, Malaysia. Andi overseas teens as well. I think what excites me about about the company, right. I think about love when you doing? Why? Why? I think I joined and like, a lot of you join us join in the first place. So I think just at context three years ago, we're a team up around 50 right today. Where a team around 250 right there was growing a lot right over the last two years. I mean, I think while out of this joint instead, nothing we've seen a lot of marketplace is right. And I think platform plays coming up in the region. But we haven't seen friends. You don't see great legacy of DTC type breads, lifestyle friends coming out off this region, right that have actually expended and have links to scale globally. Right? Maybe. I guess it is fashion retail. I guess there's Children, Keith. Right? Maybe in gaming there a squeezer. Right. But apart from that, you don't see that right success stories often. So I think that's why a lot of us joy because we view that there is a gap in the market, right? Why is there no d to see a friend coming up from this region? Are especially infection, especially in by smaller and retail when supply Jane is in fact, entirely in Asia. So I think we feel that's a pity, right? That's why I think there is an ambition, right, and your ambition, I think an impassioned to really grow the brand in that direction.

Andrei Palamariu:   3:36
50 and now 250 people said. It's quite a very accelerated growth in the same time legacy brand in the region. It's a It's a very ambitious plan, and maybe at some point we need the lengths of Nike to come out of page eyes. That's insulin and have the same global impact. What's kind of milestone you are looking at in the next year?

Dione Song:   4:06
Yeah, so we've been We've been actually around in the market for around 10 years, I think, also usually quite surprised. So I've been around for a while where we've gone to Vegas. Different, different traps, different growth stages for entirely bootstrap. For the first side, it's only getting at a venture capital funding in inside of the fifth year and then sort of doing out series you right? So we've got to get all of that. You know how to operate against budgets and lean right? If we need to scale, we can do that as well On Dhe, pretty much against over. The last 10 years have been doing mainly clothing right, meaning fashion of power. And that's why you see that there's truth potential everywhere else. So the bigger dream would be to be a women's like some bran. Can we expend young clothing right into shoes? Beauty, right? Well, this content community, that's a future where we believe that the future of friends should be yet right. Work is a one stop sort of portal, right for the modern woman where she comes in right field lights. Elton Brand right? She feels sort of d n a right, and she comes in. She gets like clothes, direction gets woman living, and it just fits right. Be thoughts and lifestyle, and that's when we see the brand Evolving into In terms of expansion is law, I think, where we see evolving into two problems, right, the one really expending further to Asia which were done with the last couple of years. That mean he's still in Southeast Asia on we see ourselves expanding into North Asia as well. We know that there was a good demand as well for the Brent. Then apart from that, also expanding to Asian diasporas globally. So they're huge change in classes and communities and markets like Australia with us, right? Actually, in these markets, right? A lot of the Asian consumers are family understood that here because there's no grand, it's for them that they don't have to alter. That really fits that when it comes to bust, waist to hip ratio is and proportions where the colors compliment them right, where sort of the content and the communication has an Asian sensibility to it as well. And that's it. See the future?

Andrei Palamariu:   6:03
It's interesting. I mean, there's definitely a little potential love because if you said under served in the moment, so okay, then we go to the next question. So what are the most important measures of success for the company? Because I know there are some hard numbers that you look at what probably there are some more. It's emotional measures except from Fleet Bank to the access from the clients and from inside the company. Is that so? This is one part of it. And then the second part of it, because of what happened in recent months, there's a lot of talk about path to profitability. And I would like to have your take on this is

Dione Song:   6:39
Well, okay. Okay. So I guess for important measures, right. So, yes, I guess the financial metrics apart from that, I think, actually, the first thing I guess it really look at, which is actually the first like old care off the organization would be people, I think, which ties him with sort of values. Right? I think we feel that. Hey, I think if people are too good, care off, right and employees a happy. So I guess our first line actually goes Hey, to build a happy and high performing team album. Right? And why? Because if you that if everyone's happy, right, if they're doing what? Well, pretty much everything. Customs don't write. This book isn't good. Quality is gonna be good. And teams then inform. So that sort of the first metric, right? Just looking. Instead of telling management engagement scores, happiness scores, right attrition rate and all these other metrics. Then, apart from that is law. On the flip side of the other bit rights of customers, right? So we look a customer, experience scores, right? I'm C sat scores for MPs is well online and offline, right? So that's something that's quite important for us. And I think it expends on the channel is a lot of times, I guess he commerce clears. It's ready. Easy to measure sort of MPs right for a high end retail. Too big. It's hard. So when we first expendable, when we make sure that okay, we had these terminals everywhere in all of our stores and always capturing just at least the MPs court. So we understand. I guess how stores are performing asshole on that front, not just money, right, and productivity, but also because my experience

Dione Song:   8:04
part with everybody's talking now live in the council starters.

Dione Song:   8:07
Yeah, I mean, we've talked about it, I guess maybe 10 years, right? Because

Andrei Palamariu:   8:11
to be

Dione Song:   8:11
honest, I guess the 1st 5 years we were comfortable, right? Since it's yeah, when no one else is talking about it, then I guess, really accelerating girls, right? So far as I think, profitability. I guess it's always important. Um, has she no right? I think with a lot of the stuff that's happening, where we work, right? Everything else. Recently, I guess it here about between one and all of these cases. Definitely, very crucial, right? And it's a little surprising that everyone will be talking about it. Not because if you think about it, your mom and pop shops and traditional business is, of course what you have to ensure that money in, right? I mean, anyhow, right, Money in money out. It kind of balances, right? Do you have enough to invest in something else where in a lot of VC, I guess. And very the sea had bad companies, right? It's Bill in a house of cards, right? Because you're essentially assuming that Okay, bright future fund raising or bridge or whatever it is going to tie me to the next sort of hold on the next one of yo right and everything I've been going on. Actually, it doesn't actually drive like, you know, bottom line returns. So I think it's about time, right? That one's talking about it for us, I guess I think we're happy. The effort is talking about it because we feel that this is how you build a sustainable business. Records a long one. If you think about brands, I guess like you mentioned just now, right? Nike, right? Even like newer, brand new off course, it's all go off. This is, well right to ensure that you actually do have enough to invest in your in your

Andrei Palamariu:   9:36
future. Yes, and nowadays any probably because we work and everybody's paying more attention to it. The investors are also putting a little bit more pressure on their portfolio to make sure they have the numbers and they get in the black at some point. But when you also want to spend a lot of markets going to North Asia, Australia getting that so it's a matter of balancing a love this steak, is it? Yeah, Okay, so let's go a bit on the industry side. What are the industry? I guess where you find there is a lot of room for improvement because I'm sure you have toe look at It's a lot. What are the white spaces in the industry

Dione Song:   10:20
thing when it comes to the retail industry. I guess in terms of white space, this and gets in the market would be the like off experiential need to write on and the lack of community as well. I thought. I think a lot of retail breads, right? You, you know, the online ones against evil plain ones. There was a lack of experience. I think it's all very transactional. Where you see a website, you see a catalogue. That's about it, right? Welcome. Just store. You see assortment hanging. That's about it, right? Is there a level above bright? And I feel that's a future retailer because again, and consumers, especially millennials, are looking for just more meaningful and directions for an engagement in touch points. So that's one bit rising apart from that also can be sort of leverage, community and loyal following a lot more. A lot of that clears especially calm fears, I guess. Look at customer acquisition, right? It's one of the key metric. It's always about growth of both. Can I just apply more? What do you do right with that? How do routine them after how we farm, all these customers get them right to a different level, and get them to higher. Lt. He's right. That to be honest, it's important, right? Sometimes I guess people don't look at that enough. But actually, because you really are and it actually makes a longer sentence right to retain and just do a little more for available loyal customer versus just acquiring, right? So I think that that's the sound of one area that we should all be looking at.

Andrei Palamariu:   11:43
What was meaningful interaction? Meaning from their perspective, it's quite a mean, mean, mean, a lot of things for a lot of people. Yeah. How would you describe?

Dione Song:   11:54
Yeah, I think for us it is through the stores. I guess we offer customers in communities, many different touchpoints rights. And the one I guess coming through the doors, right? Not just saying, like not just greeting. You notice supporting you, right? I'm about half of that. I guess we spent the teams into two house where you have retail in vestiges, right? Style invested. This is, well, Stalin. Messages of people who are basically serving you understanding your physique, right. Your style, your preferences or personality. Do that. Got you through the process, right to provide the right from Why do we do this? Right? So that number one, I guess they understand the brand better. The understand? Yes, sort of. So you actually secret financial, Deeks? You see people buying more items. Orders are you see them spending bigger baskets. But more important, me. You see them, actually, um, actually, also doing things. I'm returning less right when you go home when they shop on homeless e commerce website because they understand the brand. We understand them for years. Well, they don't want to buy. I don't know how to pay by, which makes it very available. Then apart from that, you have the intangibles, right? So something. We're trying to sort of play stuff observing and analyzing a little bit more right to be not just, I guess, how a customers are shocked with bread, right? That's not just one measure of success. Apart from that is how the customer talks about it. Right? Is that what a month, right? Are they still having the experience that they're just meeting leaving a good review somewhere, just sharing their girlfriends, or what's it going? Hey, I just went to the store, Had a really good and direction. If this. So Ansel, stop right. Enjoy the experience. Oh, my God. Right. Please come down with me, Dixie and that sort of that meaningful direction everyone a seat, right that you essentially a converting them right and loving them up to just keep it in customers and what we call internally kills. These are not just Q else anymore, but kill. See something? Something that we few would be that next. Important jails? Yeah.

Andrei Palamariu:   13:37
Interesting. Definitely important. Once you get your clients to talk about it and bringing their friends, you're in the good sport. Okay, so we equal ones, you can analyze the buying behavior, the past, um, ones. We have a lot of data. We can use the website together data, but us, the money thing of us quite a bit in retail and probably connected to the part of having a lot of more touch points with clients. So what are some strength of this only general approach? How important it is for you to go both? We're both on the phone. I side with those on the offensive.

Dione Song:   14:10
But seeing that this is thing in general for NASA guests, Omni Channel would be about e think very similar to sort of what we talked about, where I think just now as well, right? How could we sort of increase the value of a customer? Right? Because not all journeys of a customer is equal. Right? Meaning that there's probably a the right set off. No star customer journey past me before for for you, for yourself. It's all right. Do you prefer set up like walking through the doors first, Right to understand the brand, right? To understand your side thing right before then, exploring yourself on home, right? Perhaps me before someone else, right? It could be a little different. Possible? Maybe it's about catalog and window shopping for her on the equal work site. Right? Doing you're weightless, doing your shopping list and then welcome to distort because he still kind of want to try and touch the products. All right, so I think that that's where when reasonable me channel it's about how can you have the right enough star journey right between two platforms to maximize the ultimate value right and then ensuring that Okay, where then second date customers into that wait right, and then directing them down that teapot because some people. I guess I just at first too, Like online traffic, Which is why source is still important. Because another day, I guess e commerce is going fast, but still very small. Percentage of the overall retail, Kyra, and typically less than 10% right in most markets. But it happened that I guess what we see in terms of like actual, like gains and improvements from on me is that you know, when we're extrapolating the data, what we see is that an army tell customers shopping both that forms in general, across the board are just following valuable than any single from customer, right, be it someone shot securely eat home or some of the shell securely retail because you're just maximizing touch points are given maximizing. I guess. Top of mine awareness is well, and typically what we see is that you know, typically 1523 times, actually more credible, right? So I think those are those are good. Some financial metrics, right? That we know that Hey, there is value for regional right in the path of that as well. Seen thing. Right. I think you walk into the store especially for maybe for us, right? Work, fashion, clothing. It's a bit different because a lot of times I guess you're returning items. Not because the sizing all right, because when it comes to fashion a product, it's about textiles and beverage, right? Fabricantes different. Direct. Bettina Takato Compton. Two minutes till it just holds differently, Right? So even if it's a s distractibility, it's not See? So that's something That's great perfection, right? So that's where the importance of journalists, right then a lot of times is all of the other bit. Why, I guess on which Then I guess the point is that what you see is Norberto right over time because people just understand. I guess what to buy. What? I'm okay, Window. I signs up, right, because I'm fine. Doesn't mean very tight. Sort of like, you know, Jack are out of my cocktail dress, right? That media gets not so stretchable, right? So I would want to size up a little bit. I want to be more comfortable, although I'm usually bring the sizes then then apart from that again rising, it's about it's about just understanding the assortment right and sort of home. The brand and experience a little better, right? So you know how to stall yourself again when it comes to holding right? You know what? To purchasing Norton by which again, I guess, supports a whole new approach. It's

Andrei Palamariu:   17:17
interesting to mention the taxi off textile use, and it's on. How do you work with this appliance? Because I know there's a quiet. I mean, there's a big variety of supplies out there in Asia Minor for for having different quality levels, depending on the region and so on. How do you select them? I don't know if you're very involved in this, but I imagine you have to be, huh? Yeah. Have you selected supplies? What's kind of yours? It's a matter of sustainability of eco friendly nest and thought. Do you? What's your credit on this side?

Dione Song:   17:52
How do we still like a supply? So we've actually looked at home supplies, I guess on quite loyalties over the last couple of news over many, many years. So yeah, I think building just very good relationship, the supply, it's because they think 10 years ago we weren't We didn't have this skill right And something Finding the right supplies. Who head basin, the brand, I think faith in the girls as well on the team. And then actually just growing alongside that most of them have grown alongside. That's actually a minute novels of taking one bigger, bigger brands, especially over the last couple of years. Price, I think for us, I guess. One, of course. Yes, sir. I mean, supplies just have to be able to produce a crossing stockman that we're doing. I'm expecting quite a bit of a possible. Maybe what we're going to casual, right, going to denim, going into just different lines or even kids, right? And in the last quantum, right? So just ensuring that I can actually provide all these different Saltman category lines. Then apart from that, Yes, we're, I think, to your point as well, Or is it important that that supplies our ethical right and working along those stand its record? I think it's something that we feel this super important, right? So that's the other biggest wall and the ability to also be minimal alongside us, right? So if things change right, we need sudden every innovations and someone everyone is optimized bits of the supply chain Can they work in a nimble fashion right with us to sort of tweaking optimized those bits.

Andrei Palamariu:   19:18
Um, okay, let's talk a bit about technology. Everybody wants to talk about it. And there's a lot of buzz words out there from machine learning A I the data automation. Some of them have more resort in others. I imagine you also need to invest in certain areas and make decisions. Okay. What? I'm actually case studies that we can use pretty much I wanted to ask, What are the technologies that are most important to you

Dione Song:   19:48
currently knows to date that disinvested technologies, I guess. I think the first bit, to be honest, be the fundamentals, right? Just ensuring that the infrastructure, right and the architecture of the entire sort of, um for us is the company is set up, right? Right. Because when it comes to call me channel, I guess it's it's it's a bus with its sexy right. But what does it mean? It means that in the second, right below the surface, everything needs to be integrated, right? So that's something that would spend the last two years doing It's super sexy. Want what we want to hear about it, right? But it's not ensure that. Okay, right. Everything from your e commerce stick to your point of sale, right to your e r p to your wealth pension system. It's all integrated into one source of truth is a ball. Right, which is the data warehouse, right? So that if we wanna understand customer behavior to your questions, Okay, how does someone direct between stores right between online offline, right? Sometimes not that easy answer to actually reply. But then you need to ensure that integration is that they're right and everything. Sort of Yeah, just just feel altogether. So that that one bit right, we ensure that we've done all that right All be unsexy stuff right below the surface so that we can actually built on top of it, right? And what we've been doing, I guess in the last six months to be developed, more set off personalization, right? Tools. So colonization when it comes to marketing automation and personalization, right? How can you ensure that gets rafting? Certain messages? A trick it in a more automated fashion, right? You're walking in through the stores, right? Happen. You're going on to the website? Maybe. I guess they changed our journey. We have fallen off, I guess a little bit over the last 23 weeks can meet automatically reach out to you. Right To be at the right marketing channel, right? That maybe you prefer. Right? So I think to that point, I guess automation and personalization of be something has been doing, like, the last 6 12 months. Then apart from that, I guess a lot of the other stuff, I guess that we invest in actually more under Dida site, right. How can use data to automate against the entire fashion design process? Right. Little right. Can we understand? I guess customer sentiment do ma a lot better, right? So that we can enable affection Design team to understand. Hey, I guess based on I guess what's trending right in the social media landscape is what I guess I mean, I guess the biggest, most relevant coils looking at and posting right, these types of designs have a higher probability, something through. Right. So I think that's part of the data, right? And take that. Meet one of the puzzle versus I get him off midstream and downstream. Then apart from dead, I guess there's quite a bit of technology, right When it comes to the entire set of only channel, I guess. Online, offline time, you know, spaces. Well, so I think that's where I guess we've done stuff, right? But to be honest thing, still quite basic on Channel B tailing, right? I think that we still have a lot of room to improve, but something that could collect right things like his all, for instance, right, can be so deploy, destroyed stores and a great meaningful week.

Andrei Palamariu:   22:42
And, of course, it commerce and then fulfill my last mile quite challenging returns. I fight challenging issues that everybody has to face. Yeah, I think it's also the time it's important to have the only Children approaching memory they'll face off language people can. Actually,

Dione Song:   22:58
actually, actually, one more. One more thing when it comes to technology, I guess a lot of times I guess people sink up up sexy tech, right? Like data data. I guess it doesn't really make sense unless you have a lot of data points right and you have enough died as well. To mine, it's actually one of the more interesting, actually, Oh, interesting, useful technology that deployment visa VI, which you probably laugh with the curing system right in the store, right? We just really funny. It's not like high tech, right, to be honest. So all stores and very high footfall, right? So the waiting lines in the fitting room, it's always very long. So I guess you took a leaf just an inspiration from the NBC, right? So I guess if you go to like the restaurants, especially Korean barbecue Restaurant, it's called it in league a number there, right you and the table's ready. Or is it pretty much did the same thing, right? Actually using a food type, you know that form where you go in. If the fitting this already, you leave your number and beat you in the rooms are are basically opened, right? So again, it's very it's honestly basic tech, right, But it's taking in guests technology, usually the point in a different in the street, right in a different vertical, into the fashion details please, on Lee, because I guess it's meaningful and there's good, good Richard, right? So far as I guess it's beautiful, right? Because number one, I guess you ensure that you know your customer can actually brought it for a lot more and look through more product instead of standing in line. Or number two, I guess. And typically, I do that right? I'm done shopping. I'm just okay. Just want to try. Then I go to the mall. I have a cup of coffee, right? It improves my experience where I get to do other things. And then, you know, love Benito, beats me when the room is right. So that that's Ah, a much more customers. Interesting graphic of using technology.

Andrei Palamariu:   24:34
Yeah. I mean, sometimes you don't need the cutting edge technology to make a customer.

Dione Song:   24:38
Yes, and it's entirely useful. Right? And there was a good take up, which is just what we see a lot of times when it comes to in the past. I think five years ago when it came to Omni Tech, I guess he had a lot of friends doing things like magic girls, right in stores. But there is little adoption. And if you think about it, does it really make sense? Maybe not. Right. I'm really in a physical store, clothes out in front of me. Why do I need to see the item right on. I just go into the fitting room and actually try it for real. So I think it's a lot more. Just that sort of customers interested, right? I'm just thinking about also how? Because of envy. LF you actually using it. And can you actually adopt this right on a more constant bees is

Andrei Palamariu:   25:21
common sense is always very hard to find sometimes when people get bogged down. Okay. What? Bozz words would realize that that's true. Um, okay, I was reading in a different interview thing. It was one of the founders saying that there's a common misconception that any calmer aside, this cheap and you don't need another investment in it and you can easily scare it happen. Yeah, everybody can be happy quite easily with the commerce facts, but I think the reality is different. Maybe what are some of the biggest challenges when it came when need constant to scaling, and particularly from the e commerce site perspective problem? Your so many challenges lost difficult, more difficult to go to scare, but maybe whether the top challenges you find when you try to go in two different markets in the regional in Asia,

Dione Song:   26:12
purely your e commerce, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think I do agree. I think e commerce site perhaps. I guess it's about first, I guess the whole structure off retail, right? If you think about the retail market again for the old woman talk height and calm, it's only, you know, below 10% right off penetration off the hole. We tell Kyra in most cases, meaning that the education right, an adoption, right? I think also maybe amongst Millennials it's their right, but a crossing of the border populace. Maybe it's still not there, but which means, I guess, to scale when it comes to marketing. Right. Number one, marketing awareness, education, right. And then customer acquisition, right? Kind of. Do I need to push a lot more, right. You do need to educate, right? So if you re think back, I guess even that 34 years ago I do recall a lot of times, I guess. And, you know, I think your question is sort of like the setup, like e commerce, I guess transactions. And so what? Firstly, it's a lot of education, right? Just ensuring a customer and sort of assuring them that he gets back home safe, right? This'll is a typical journey, right? And he sees all these cars, and it's fine, right? No one Nothing's gonna happen. So there's a lot of education, I guess, to be doing first. And number two, I guess, to skill. I guess an E compass is a lot of times, I guess you're bigger brands and you're bigger platforms, actually subsidizing quite a bit. All right, So meaning, I guess, deploying tactics, right? My free shipping free returns, right? All of these. Which means that if you do want to scale, I guess you're actually burning to margins quite a bit, right? Just to acquire that first customer. I said this something that's quite different from behind me till right where, you know, because he doesn't have sort of so much that fear that I'm gonna be buying the wrong size because I've actually tried it, actually seen it. And there's an old sort of like, you know, disappointment. In the end, I need to return it or do it exchange. Right. So that's quite different where I think that we're sort of on the channel for us. I guess that cost quite valuable, right? Cause for the offline store said. For us, I guess in this entire sort of frame, what right off Winehouse? Because it's not just a retail speaks. It's a marketing channel, right? If you think about it, it's sort of like an above the line huge out of home Bill. What right? But the beauty of this is that it converts, right? I can actually talk to you. I can meet you, persuade your right to shop, right and try the brand. And it's not just stepped right Then I initiate threw the bread right, and then they're after short, right? It's your call, right? Perhaps he's a better affinity with e commerce. After that, you prefer to do it from the convenience of your whole short. By all means do it right. But I think that that's where the beauty of the channel is, right where there is good marketing dollars or something. Actually, that we look at right when it comes to metric Basil, so is to think about customer acquisition costs, the whole right, so it's not just marketing, it's also rent right, and then to really just understand, okay, what is a modified number of you needs right degeneration a number of new customers that record even through the doors, which we made a future also off mutating right that your stores have to be a marketing platform. Has been marketing legal right to build that first interaction, right? An impression on the customer

Andrei Palamariu:   29:12
be trusted. Yeah. Yeah, besides me. Okay, let's go in the more people and culture part of it. And I know conscience, like you mentioned then in values are very important to Logan. You know, you have leased from what they managed to reset from the website. There are five values that you focus on. One is people matter. Go above and beyond. People would be creative, always keep it. Really. I especially like this one the first time we're better together on bets on when you were saying that they can't just be slept on the world and then hopefully everybody will read it and somehow just do it is it's left on all you have to the warning that So, what are some examples of putting these values in practice?

Dione Song:   29:58
Yes, that's what we we in the shit all everyone, I guess in the end the organization to these values from the one right. So I guess a lot of times against new join us. Actually, even before the joint, right? They have pre meeting material to read about this. Then they join, I guess, during the two days out of onboard, and we talk about this as well, right? It's true. The office space isn't wall, which you can see leader Andi. It's part of actually the formal appraisal process, right? Pretty much again, and you'll see it's like everywhere. Andi is a very interesting story, right? So over the last two years actually was sort of changed about was quite a bit right or evolved. No change could be very confusing, but you've also had quite a bit right so initially, I guess two and 1/2 years ago we had nothing. If I recall, right, eight values right? But we saw that Oh God, it's like so long. One's going to remember them. So we streamline. All right, cut it down to five. I thought. It's easy to remember, I guess.  Firstly, I guess company values need to be marble o or you think to give me remember them. If not, it's pointless. And then and then we streamline them to this process, right? And when we came out, I guess to your very interesting. He said you liked them before, right? Always keep it. And one of the reasons why he did it was because, you know, I think three years ago, especially, I think when we were expanding, sort of bring it right, we found out that he I think especially maybe in an Asian working culture contacts where I think a lot of people are always comfortable. Where I think you love hanging out your colleagues where you're having lunch together, you're hanging out after work together, right? But a lot of times against when they're difficult conversations you don't typically approach where you just sweep them under the rock on your likes. I guess she's a friend. I don't feel too nice talking about it, right? Like why, Right? Because you're friends, right? Because you have that trust in a relationship all the more. I guess you should be very comfortable talking about it, right? And if you say in a respectful wait, the other person's gonna just, you know, we'll respect your opinion, right? And you can walk through that together. You should have just holding and possibly get all the way in right and suffer right and silence for like 6 to 12 minutes, so that that's one of the reasons why we put it there. Because we feel it's important. Especially, I think, as a company that's also hit what it in Singapore in Asia, I think a lot of text. Yes, I think we probably just need to sort of force or rather a courage. But I think that level off, goodness for and transparency and also directness right there's an issue. Talk about it, right? But of course, we could all be treated to talk about conflicts and just a conflict management in a much harmoniously right. So that's something that that's quite important for us, right then. Apart from that, you know, I think even values like people be creative. But I think things that we feel important, right? So this to West means that, you know, I think even I guess if we're doing well as a bread right, you can always do things better, right? You always find ways to improve the process because I think we put this down also because we've been around actually pretend use a lot of times, I guess. You know, I think we're ready. Largest brain in Singapore. A lot of times, I guess you can get completed, right? But complacency would be, you know, the last thing, right? That anyone should ever beat. Write something for us. It's about Hey, I think we're doing something. Well, can we do it better? Can you do it faster? If we're hiring new people into the organization, how can we set up, you know, also leverage. What? That right in the outside world, in other corporation sentences. Maybe take that need even if it's out of it. If they came from a food, be company, right, get there are inspirations, right? There are other things that we can adopt right into fashion detail, which would be very useful. Right then, apart from that. Also ensuring that, yes, that creativity doesn't have to be expensive. But you can do it. Can be frugal about it, right? I think that's something when I encourage everyone. So it could be anything from like, Hey, everyone, automation, right? Doesn't mean like building a full section of automation tool, right? No. Maybe you just write a good script. You having sequel, right, having the right macros written All right so that you don't have to do the same task. All went over and over again. You can cut everything short from 10 to 1 step, right? Alternatively example, in our retail stores, for instance, we have, you know, things like modulate fitting rooms. Right again, it's not high tech. It's basically combining worlds, right? So 23 rooms that tools. I guess it can break down open a little and a big group because he noticed that a lot of women shot in groups. Right and typical. Retailers like to spit friends up right? And why? Because you're actually they're shopping together. You want it to be fun. If the room miss. If the entire fitting area's crowded, what usually happens is that you end up at the ends of like different walls of the fitting right. You have to text her friend and be like, Where are you? Right? And then it's just because it's everyone watching you in the middle of the fishing area, right? So what we did was the groom changing rooms, right? So it's finally coming together with 23 girlfriends. You can actually try your own intimate Bigger right? So again it's It's not. It's creativity by innocent. It's not expensive, but it's just about building one foldable door. Maybe. Andi, That's it, right? I think that's how we encouraged teams to just constantly improved. And just coffee. Tea inspirations all around.

Andrei Palamariu:   34:47
Really bad things in the clan. Yeah, yeah, that's an interesting observation to make it course. It's always more funny. Group. What can you do about it? Yeah, So it's insane. Interesting point on. You talk to Britain in the testing on this point. Well, why? What do you look in for? The leaders in your team? What attributes that they need to have a future proved themselves. What are the skill sets or even the more character attributes that you are looking for us? As we mentioned at the beginning, you have to take care of a few teams. I'm curious how they select the leaders report directly to you. What are you looking at?

Dione Song:   35:28
Because it changed. Think it changes and evolves, probably over time, where I think different different states of the company against. We're looking for a different types of leaders as well, right? I think backtrack to three years ago. I guess I think crime we want to be. Do you have a great right? Do you have that great to sort of come in? Because a lot of things are not in place, but you will need to get down and dirty in the trenches of the teams. Set up process is right. Setup. Best practice, right. Gold trade. Clean things up, Can you will, ever sees. Right? So I think that was one where you're looking for Greek. Greatly looking for extreme ownership, right as well on that sort of like a bus and beyond sort of attitude and mentality, Right, that you know, it's not about thinking. Hey, is this This is not my job, right? I was being very complicated about school, right? You're really wanting someone with extreme ownership, I think. Fast forward, I guess 23 years down. I mean, of course, I think we still look at great where I think we still want leaders to come and live with that level older ship. You're looking for people also with that founder might write that this is my company, right? I mean, I'm going to do all my bets right. And it's not just about my function, my department. If I see an Arab improvement for the organisation for another team, I will said just I'll raise my head because I can't write. I think that something really one of the really look for I think especially I think as a girl, which is something important as well. I think you're looking for the dismissal as the organization girls are. I think you're also looking for leaders. But the sense of maturity, right? I think it sends a maturity, that sense of humility, a small right meeting that you know as you grow. I think even for myself I think you hired peoples are better than yourself, right for certain functions which is inflicted right to ensure that your team's a flourishing. But it does take a sense off. Firstly, a sense of a witness, right to realize that he gets there, the there is I don't really know right. Then you need I guess it's that incentive acknowledgment if you like. Okay. I really do not know that right? And then that she really did. But yes, I am comfortable hiring someone in who will be more intelligent than me. These areas who will know these? There is a little better, right? Who will call my bluff this wall, right? And call me if I'm actually. So I think that that takes out of you know, I think that's something that we look for. Um, yeah, and I think that's important because that essentially, that future proves the organization future proved them is long, their teeth right, that their constant just improving. And whenever whoever you're hiring and it's a Barbie's right, it's someone that's better. Someone that's stronger, right? And then then, of course, any leader is also has that ability, that humility, maturity also to understand and the emotional intelligence I just called to manage all these different people, right? Whore coming in maybe more capable as well, right? And have even more life experience and works words and maybe older than us. Well, do you know how to get off their weight? Right? Are you able to sort of have a framework that needy? I guess you're not even that micromanaging right. You have to be giving them the freedom Are you have to trust them enough to get a minute's peace work to actually all breathe and run their projects. Ball. So So I think that that's what we're That's what you That's what we look for. Anything. Yeah, Apart from that, I guess You think you're I guess. Yeah. L Q as well, right. Let's talk show portion like emotional, emotional intelligence, right? That's all the intelligence as well, right? And sort of everything. On the softer side. What would be really important? So very interesting. I guess we didn't excite me, Cindy, right? Sort of a. It's like a competency sort of matrix, right? And free what we looked at, I guess why managers need to get to the next level when you realize that. Hey, I guess, apart from, you know, set up that promotion, right From executive to see exact two to meeting manager level. It's a lot of heart skills. A lot of technicals, air building by, but young that actually right now, what's gonna ask you? Old? Can you do, like, sequel Better, right? Versus what you did two years ago, right? No, You're asking questions about how you manage conflict, right? How do you communicate? Right? How you talk to different teams, right? How do you pitch it sell an idea. It's all about softer skills, right? It's all about that, right? I think that's something that's actually truly important on dhe stuff. That would be beautiful.

Andrei Palamariu:   39:27
And I don't have a strong induction process the convention before. If you go over the value of history. Whether company wants to achieve under other avenues or tours are events trainings that you're using. Developing teams, I'm sure, assuming that you do that a lot of talking about online courses. There's a lot of talking about giving budgets for people to invest in their self out of education. Are there certain things of love when it does in this direction?

Dione Song:   39:57
Yeah. So thing apart from a cut from the way we do, we do certain things, I guess, across the organization. All right, so I guess. Like workshops, I guess. Like, um, strikes finder. We found me useful. Yeah, it's sort of where you put the whole team through sort of this entire training, right? Just to for them to understand. Until center discovered the set of telling themes and strength. Right? And for us, I guess he found it really great cause a lot of times, I guess you just do president personality tests, right? Like the MBA tiaras and someone to tell me something, but not really right off a generalization as well. So this is a bit different rights. How do you know this? So it says that every person has That's different, telling themes, right? You have a high affinity for something as well, because you're just naturally, maybe more talented in certain areas, right? So for us about the discovery, and what we found is that you don't think a lot of people who are doing well in your rules right half. I'm telling people that actually quite unlike because it's always it's a matrix for an imbalance between when you think about your job. It's a mix between, I guess, passion right and interest versus also tell it right and just come quick, work something, and if you're if you have balls, it's amazing because it kind of reinforces each other, and then you just do really well your stuff. But you're also genuinely interested in your dough. Me right? I think that's something that was great helpful for us, I think very helpful to everyone is well. And then it also showed I guess. Different things, right? That seven people, I guess, have said inside of him. Example. Like it's 11 simple example, right? Um, I guess some people maybe. I guess. One of the themes, I guess. Little more deliberate. Different. Meaning that you're always more calculated. Little one cap full. Right. But sometimes I guess that needs to calm your misunderstanding crossed, teacher. Because people saying that. Eight. Why is this person always saying no to a different ideas for its Not because they'd be just say no, right in a group setting. It's because it just being cautious. Right? This I guess you did. This exercise has a right and a lot of people to understand. Okay, you understand better. Why colleagues is something saying a sudden something you understand why maybe someone a little more emotional, right, or a little more aggressive of us it in something as well, right? And it all stemmed from that right. Which then, I guess, then transforms that he can actually turn all these things into stranger because our strings, right. How do you never see them in the world's rights, for example? In that sense, I guess, and someone's like very deliberative, super, super cautious, realized Well, we got this person is great, right? For identifying each case is right when you roll a new fee. Driss this this this person and the team would be someone that you really want to be actually a tester, Right? To understand what exactly could go wrong on a roll? A new future Because they actually see from all angles, right? And that's how you sort of turn right into a strength. Yeah. Yeah. And then it just reduces like Mr

Andrei Palamariu:   42:42
Conflict. Yeah. Yeah. I think self awareness in order for awareness of others is so needed. And I think it's great to religious. It's called good to know t trainer. Okay, let's goto close to our last question. And, you know, you mentioned that it's not easy to find an answer to this, but under other avenues or tours are events trainings that you're using. Developing teams, 

Dione Song:   43:15
Yeah, I've been thinking about it, I think probably during my last two jobs. Single? Yeah, to two rolls ago, I guess. Yeah, I think I think I was getting a I think that that advice was you know, I think just try it for a lot of types against you. Feel like you're not ready, But maybe for that next step. But I guess a lot of times I guess we're never ready. Right. So I think this advice is, you know, just take it right. Just plunge into it. Just try it. Maybe I guess you might drone, you will trysts, and then maybe you'll drop. But at least it pushes yourself. Right. And you just discovered more about yourself through that process, right? And just know everything. Get so I think that that for me, I guess was was a good advice. I did. I did. Just try, I guess. With that experience,

Andrei Palamariu:   44:04
do go for it. Yeah. You know, there's a saying, Jump off the cliff, and if you're good enough, you're growing. So you never know what your kids definitely worked out. Yeah, doing something. Then You have those a very important role in doing this. So, you know, thank you very much for the shooting. It was great to find out more about how love bonito does the work. How things about meaningful interaction with clients. What do you plan to do in the future? So or the best and success to you? Thank you. Yours? Oh,