Ash Pujari leads solution management for SAP Digital Supply Chain in APJ and Greater China. A 28 year veteran in this space, Ash has seen it all. He has been a practitioner, consultant, entrepreneur, sales leader, and value engineer - all in the space of supply chain management. With SAP, Ash joined to lead the Digital Supply Chain and IoT line of business for the APJ region where he oversaw a triple-digit growth in the cloud business. His current mandate is to help set up an Industry4.0 Lab in Japan along with driving the “design to operate” solution portfolio in the region. Prior to SAP Ash was part of the Asia leadership teams for Manugistics/JDA, Cap Gemini & SSA Global (now called Infor).
SAP in a few numbers:
SAP has 100.000 employees and 437,000+ customers come in all sizes and work in every industry and geographic region you can imagine. They include 92% of the Forbes Global 2000 and 98% of the world’s top 100 most valued brands. The company’s revenue for 2019 was €27.553 billion euro
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Some of the highlights of the episode:
Andrei Palamariu: 0:00
Hello and welcome to the leaders in Tech. Any commas podcast? I'm your host, Andrea Calamari, and I am the APEC director for Elka Global Executive Search. Our mission is to connect the tech in supply chain and e commerce ecosystem in Asia and globally by bringing forward some of the most interesting stories about success and failure from leaders in the industry I'm happy to have with us today. Ash Ash leads the solution management for ASAP Peter Supply chain in Asia Pacific in Japan and Greater China. He has 28 years of experience in this space, and he has seen it all. He has been a petitioner, consultant, entrepreneur, sales leader and value engineer, all in the space of supply chain management with a C B. Ash joined to lead the digital supply, teaching an i. O. T line of business for a PJ region where he oversaw a triple digit growth in the cloud business. His current mandate is to help set up an industry for point or lab in Japan, along with driving the designed to operate solution for folio in the region. Prior to ASAP, Ash was part of Asia leadership teams for Manugistics J. D. A. Kept Jim and I and, as they say, global now called in for in a few numbers. Because Recipe has 100,000 employees and 437,000 plus customers in all industries and in oil sizes, they include 92% of Forbes Global 2000 and 98% of the world's top 100. Most valued breath. The company's revenue for 2019 was 27.5 billion euro. A pleasure to have you with us today. Thank
Ashish Pujari: 1:41
you for including me all day. How are you doing?
Andrei Palamariu: 1:43
Well, I'm I'm good with like, you know, everybody s is is trying to solve challenges left and right and supply chains are under a huge amount of stress. Governments are scrambling to inject cash into their economies, and companies are trying to stay afloat. Your company is it be worth 2000 of clients around the world and you personally have been in APEC. Either Ship rose for more than a decade. I mean, it's impressive, and you mostly have focused on supply chain and manufacturing. I wanted to get your take on the current situation and then get some of the good case studies or some of the challenges and solutions that your client's face during these times. So let's start with the first question. What are some repeal effects and issues that propagate within supply networks at this moment globally, and maybe a neighbor? I knowwhat each market has their own circumstance. Maybe you can give us some your perspective.
Ashish Pujari: 2:35
Interesting question, Andre. I will start now. Try to stay away from stating the obvious. Yeah, because, you know, everyone says the same thing these days. The moment as in when you mentioned the moment as in now is an unprecedented situation. And beyond all that, right. Global supply chains are broken algorithms. Simulations? Aye, aye, And data can only do so much. Supply. Jen heads and chief procurement officers today are working 24 by seven to figure out supplies. Allocate scarce supplies to plants, orders your customers on their just crumbling. So it's a scrappy situation, but they are scrambling to make things happen. Ripple effects are multiple, but at the end off the it at the end, customer customer will need to take the hit, um, hit off. Non availability of product hit off uncertain delivery and eventually the hit on price. And I feel these are the ripple effects that kind off going to permit for a very long time.
Andrei Palamariu: 3:37
Yes, angry. And I think we haven't yet felt price pressure, the price pain, and it's still to come and is definitely coming. I don't know how many people are aware of it and, uh, well expected, especially the end consumer. But it's definite out there. Maybe we can. We can talk a bit about opportunities or silver linings that maybe ah you have seen in your portfolio of clients or or partners. I know there is an estimated 70% of the global soup fly ro materials can control by China. It seems like now China, it's recovering, is doing better and have started some manufacturing facilities, if not most. What are the silver linings from your perspective? What are some opportunities that you see?
Ashish Pujari: 4:23
I like your positive attitude on silver linings, for sure, I feel, um, this situation is an alarm bell to corporations to who took outsourcing and cost arbitrage to the matinee. So they're now thinking off redefining the network so that sourcing and manufacturing can be located near consumption points and I'm you know, when I talkto chiefs ablation officers, this is coming more and more silver lining for some logistics cos I can see that as well. In fact, I was talking to a CEO, often air cargo company who was beaming, since demand on some of the lanes are on an all time high. And so our rates so air freight is going through the roof for certain critical items, you could say, you know, face masks and sanitizers, another medical equipment. Silver lining is also in the way We engage with customers, right? Online meetings are getting accepted in almost all cultures. Could you have imagined this that you know? But Japanese customers having a zoom call, a face to face online call, um would ever work. But it is working. So obviously this will reduce travel and ultimately benefit the environment as well. And, you know, bring families much closer. So I see all this a silver lining truth through the situation now.
Andrei Palamariu: 5:48
Yes, I think there are a lot of jokes because people are trying to make the best of gets about how this constitutes has done most. They were better for the environment than any other activists have been managing the situation. Definitely. We can look at it as is the silver lining. Um, but going back to talks that you have with with your client. So air car, we're afraid they're in a good spot for now. Um, good sports from a pricing perspective. Difficult spot from from making everything happen because it's a huge amount of restaurant. Um um, you talk with quite a few ah, leaders from different industries. What type of priorities do you advise your clients to focus on? How do you manage this? Um, the question that come from their side.
Ashish Pujari: 6:36
So under our advice to her customers is 24 customers are really has scrambling, right? So while they are looking for advice, they're not looking for sermons for the near term. What we're advising is use a lightweight technology to do some scenario managed for the mid long term creator, robust, mortal for supply, generous mitigation. So escapee and our partners, we're working on creating these low cost, low risk packages to address the near term and made long term. So if you go to a s a p dot com, for instance, you'll be able to view three such offers from the digital supply chain portfolio wherein, you know, at zero to minimal cost for a period of time. 90 days. In this particular case, we are offering certain service is helping the customers to kind of assimilate their supply. Jin's have made some decisions, so we're pleading those decisions support kind of association and also creating visibility across the chain. In addition, the offers from a safety Reba and again her to goto citi dot com. You'll CDs as well. These further complicate, you know, complement these solutions that we're talking about where you know they can. Customers can manage their upstream supply risks better. So you absolute regional. There is always a mix off. Um, how much short term and how much long term you want to push and discuss with customers? ATTN. This point in time,
Andrei Palamariu: 8:13
that's that's a very good point. And I think we have to come together and we have to come with solutions on the short time everybody's fighting fires nowadays, can you tell us a bit more so when you say a minimal investment, is it so? And also, um, on the short term, does this also imply a shorter implementation, duration and complexity. How how does implementation get? Get managed. So
Ashish Pujari: 8:42
these are very quick simulations were very quick. Turn on off, off, off The supply chain solutions. Also, our partner ecosystem has been enabled and geared to make these happen very quickly. Because if he if he wait for nine months, what the stinks to be delivered and the purpose is lost.
Andrei Palamariu: 9:03
Correct? I agree. And out of the client that you already have in, uh oh, you already work with Is there anyone that stands out and who has already being improving on their digital transformation and stands out is a good example of facing this challenge is somebody who has not been disrupt dealers. Marches is the average organization. When it comes to go dissipating,
Ashish Pujari: 9:32
it's Ah, it's a fine line. So I'll be careful when I articulate this. Yeah, 100. And I'm sure you'll appreciate that because the entire effect off this disruption is still not over, right? So s So we need to make sure that what I'm saying does not have a bearing to the long tail off this disruption. So I remember the 2011 quake on and how overnight the supply chains off large corporations took a massive hit. Their talks about taking a hard look and creating redundancies in the supply chain to mitigate such disasters in the future hole of discussion happening large consulting firms getting involved on day taking at mid long term view. However, after a few years, companies have fallen back to old practices and have been hit hard with the current destruction. Having said that, I believe the Japanese automotive companies, some off them, have worked out a mitigation strategy due to the earthquake on the pile and floods that they have applied in the current scenario. This includes coordinates sourcing strategies, flexible manufacturing with make forces by decisions on managing inbound and outbound logistics constraints. While I'm yet to get the final report from those customers that I'm talking about, I have been hearing that they have managed to weather the storm better than others, at least till this point in time. Yeah,
Andrei Palamariu: 10:54
it's interesting, and definitely Japan in is a market in a country that has been hit by different crisis in the last few years. I was reading somewhere that, um, mapping your upstream supplier several years back and, um it takes such a long time, depending on the complexity of and of course, of the scale but support for a big organization. Japan took a few weeks for them to be able to finish it. And after they had a clear perspective on their supplies, they could better prepared incense for disruption. Um, do you see this mapping and having a clear visibility? A few tears. But I mean not only to your woman here to anyone, the city says, being an important aspect of fighting disgraces. Yeah,
Ashish Pujari: 11:40
sure. I mean, one of the key things that these companies have done well is understanding these critical parts that they need Onda. Some of them are honestly single single source. So they needed to make those decisions off having multiple sources for these critical parts on going through yet another round off cue way on strange and quality processes around these, which take not just weeks, sometimes takes months. So they have gone through those and you know, that really has helped them, that they have visibility in towards alternate parks which are spread across different regions. Different geography ease on down, you know, they also have different lead times as well. So yes, these are some of the strategies. Absolutely.
Andrei Palamariu: 12:32
And because we're talking about the technology aspect I wrote, I actually read an article you wrote about the concept of intelligent enterprises and you were speaking there about organizations that effectively used data, assets and machine learning to automate routine tasks or make better decisions. And my question would be how can company use their huge volumes of data and the latest tech to translate them in actionable insights in this period? I don't know if there are examples or maybe certain sectors that you see that are doing better than others with is this combination of huge volume of data and machine learning working towards a better outcome during this
Ashish Pujari: 13:17
period? I'm a big believer in, indeed a driven supply chain, so I completely endorse it. But let me just get into the conversation on Jessica. So most companies, we engage with our obviously sitting on a huge pool of data and, you know, they are custom customers off ASAP. They used a sippy transaction system they used ASAP. Extended systems on data keeps coming in, so this data could be customer data customers, customer data asset usage data Human capital data output data supplier later. You just name it. So data is everywhere. So let's that let's take a special case into asked. Um, say that case off massive data s o give you an example. A large chemical company in this region in a p j. Was severely affected during this crisis on they're still going through that process. Some of their products have seen demand that they haven't ever seen before, Right? It's through the roof. While some are sitting on zero demand, so certain categories zero demands certain categories. Absolutely. You know, 200% of that. Um consequently, the assets and production lines supporting these product lines are also in a very simple estate. So while some lines are being pushed to the limit, other lines are sitting at night ling. Right? So this company took all its data and use tools like, say, asset strategy and for performance management, Thio decide on revising the maintenance schedules off their assets and, uh, and tied that to their spares in Ventria as well. So, while they needed up time off these assets that were, you know, running 24 by seven needed to revise the entire maintenance on spares off the ones that are idling, So they had to make sure that the lines in demand don't breakdown. Hence, a predictive maintenance process was executed on. For others, the standard maintenance was tweaked and oldest honestly was used to be, you know, done using the I am ill and analytics on this huge pool of data that they're sitting on. So it absolutely works.
Andrei Palamariu: 15:21
I think the the important part is that you really have the data at hand and the data is accurate and used reliable. That's a different conversation, for sure, yes. Um, and when we talk about good examples and companies doing the right things, it's also interesting to switch that around and then think about what not to do, because, I mean, it's even easier. The salaries. It's easier to criticize, but in this case, it's always good to learn from mistakes. Are there certain things that you would advise? Or you see different companies doing that are not to do on the list of not adore worst, the behavior, so to speak? Is there anything you could could share here? Does everybody when you when things are hot and the fire's hot. You panics. But what are things that we shouldn't do is a company.
Ashish Pujari: 16:15
Yeah, there's always on ideal situation, and there's always a situation on the ground, right? So crisis always leads to a lot of desperation, and we all know that. And sometimes decision making is clouded by pressure. So cost of operations becomes a key topic as well, right in this whole crisis. While companies need to figure out reason means of satisfying customer demands better, I think this is an opportunity to get closer to their suppliers, um, logistics providers, technology providers and other ecosystems partners to ensure of win win or should I say, survive, survive right for all. So you know, the more the more you're transparent, the more you're collaborating, the better those companies will understand the precious you are in and you understand the better, and you kind of work out something that works for all The other aspect that I see is people has the rather than taking, say, knee jerk reactions and announcing mosque layoffs, etcetera. Companies should have closer collaboration with employees and jointly figure out how to manage to Spain. Right employees are loyal employees they want. Ah, your own company, too. Thrive so they they will help you figure these things out better. If you have ideas, you bounce it past them and they will nine times out of 10. They will understand, and they'll comply. If that means, say, redeployment off your people. Salary carts. It's still better than layoffs, isn't it?
Andrei Palamariu: 17:47
Mmm. I think you're You're touching up on a very important aspect of crisis management, and this is how you treat and how you communicator employees. I saw an interesting users. I think it was last week from Grab and Go, Jack, who are cutting 20% of their leadership teams to support their drivers, partners, fortunes, um, employees. Afte what other things do you think leadership should do to promote this safety feeling and also to engage their employees and, uh, get their ideas? r all, I think that's Ah, it's Ah, this Toby, uh, shared. And I think it's good to look upto these kind of actions. What else? Or what other things do you think leadership should do to promote this safety feeling and also to engage their employees and, uh, get their ideas? And after all five, this crisis together?
Ashish Pujari: 18:39
Well, you know, as I mentioned, companies should over communicate and be transparent. And be honest. You know, you got to tell your employees your ecosystem, your partners in crime, that we are doing this. This is our current strategy to mitigate the the effect off a disruption like this in the near term so that they are better prepared. So in my mind, surprises, surprises, surprises, leads to issues. And if we can minimize that because people are already surprised with this whole outbreak on, you shouldn't be making it worse. So I would think, you know, the strategy is simple. Look at how quickly you know you can influence them masses, which is your own employees, your equal system and all that with certain ideas around the near term on a mid long term, so that they understand that the company is not getting completely, you know, wound up with only, you know, solving the near term on. I think that that is a very effective way to to mitigate the stress in the entire system.
Andrei Palamariu: 19:58
Definitely over communicating is is one of them making sure you say the same thing 10 times until somebody and I mean communication from leadership is what keeps people's hopes I and the safety feeling. And of course, them engaged and we talked and you touched the pond topic of partnering with of partnerships in general, we saw some interesting example is one of them came from Australia, where an airline who has bean affected quite drastically has relocated some of their work force towards one of their partnering retail's one of the largest retail groups in Australia. Are there other interesting examples in in this partition direction? And what is your take on this?
Ashish Pujari: 20:50
So I firmly believe that, you know, when you use the word partner, it is extremely powerful. So you need One needs to be careful about using that word partner in a loose for right. So because it it really defines a very symbiotic relationship between two entities that would share good times and tough times together. So partnerships are often long term. So intel, in times like this, you know, partnerships can help provided there is complete honesty and transparency, and I think I'm repeating myself here. So I have seen these work in certain countries in Asia between shippers and logistics providers. I was talking to a very large consumer goods company. It's a global company, but you know, the head of supplies in sits in Singapore for this part of the world. And you know his view Waas from that In order to make sure that they kind off level out this whole demand supply imbalance. They have bean working very closely with better party logistics company on making sure that neither capacities nor price increases. Nor, you know, surgeon demand is going to break the chain. So they're saying we are We basically opened up completely saying for these categories in thes locations that demand surges, they're on, your lanes are constricted, can be worked together to see if you guys can go ahead and recruit another partner, and we don't mind that on we can onboard them quickly together so that it's a three party consortium trying to address the supply chain logistics challenge. You know, that should work. And it seems that has worked very effectively for them this particular have month of march. So, you know, again, you know, partnerships during the difficult times is it will work only if partners are honest and they want to work as a partner.
Andrei Palamariu: 22:54
Ah, I think you're right. And it has to come from from past of, of working together and sharing both the successes and the failures, so to speak. And then, ah, it's easier to have the trust relationship where you can share ah information. You can have a plan together, can even share the workforce and and so on. We also so quite a number of ah companies shifting their production are shifting their product words, helping the efforts even. Ah, I think you shared about Zara shifting their production toe manufacturer hospital scrubs. Different manufacturers from folks going to sharp are changing a few things. Do you think more companies should make this a priority, given the fact did the crisis might take months, Do you think? What's your take on
Ashish Pujari: 23:46
this as it's it's, you know, for the first time, honestly, in my working career, I have seen this, you know, agility off certain organizations to address the pressing need off the moment here. So it's really heartening. So obviously this is a global crisis. Every individual and company that cares would want to do their bit right, so size off help. Honestly, in this particular line doesn't matter. So whether you call it a book, say LVMH doing something or Czar or Gap, you know, on some of these are more leading names, you know, have joined this whole sharp folks corner, etcetera and helping on nothing wrong with that. Unless this is done for that steak off cheap publicity and we need to kind off. Um, make sure that this is done with genuinely feeling from the heart, so she should be a priority. Now, from my point, this is debatable. Priority in my mind stays the same as before. Um, employees, customers and shareholders. So if the additional activity complements these and make the world a better place on, absolutely why not? You want should go ahead and do that. But the pride of the often organization remains the same, whether there's a crisis or not.
Andrei Palamariu: 25:15
Correct. Um, let's go to the team side of the topic I wanted to ask is everybody's working or a lot of people are working for him from home working remotely. Um, tryingto be efficient that doing this on our trip is doing the same. I know you have to manage both your team and, uh, lines all over the world by the tools, the Internet boots at our disposal. How are you enabling your team and recipes enabling the teams to work from home. What? What are the challenges and water? The positive aspects that you see
Ashish Pujari: 25:56
here. Well, you know, let me paint the scenario as off now, right? I live in a house in Singapore and there are four members in my family who are all online right now. So I am, um I'm connected in a room, um, on and talking to you over Zoom. My wife is on a different level in a different room and she's doing her work, so she is connected A cz Well, my son who studies in the US here he is doing online classes and taking online classes as well because he teaches there as well. My daughter, who's in school in Singapore is, you know, attending classes online. So life is very different and we have all adapted to that. So S E B actually allows Ah ah, whole lot of tools for online meetings as long as they're concerned to our security staff. How Microsoft teams is something that is widely used along with Skype. To be honest, work from home for some off us is not a new concept. How, Because recipe has always had this flexible arrangement. Even before the crisis, a large chunk of the workforce worked from home as as and when the situation demanded. So no additional tools have been discussed. Honestly speaking, obviously some security standards have been installed and all that, but that's about it. What we have been encouraging our teens is see if they need something to make their home office better. Um, we'd say having a printer be having better chairs and all that, but that's about it.
Andrei Palamariu: 27:49
And it's Ah, it's a good point. I mean, you have a history of working from home, so it's always good at that. You get this lessons learned and then you apply them now. Ah, a lot of companies are trying to figure things out as they go. Um, you're touching on security. And, uh, I think even Zoom had some but publicity around that. How do you see the topic of cybersecurity? And I know it's very connected to technology in this case, but have you seen Klein's strengthen their cyber security standards to guarantee a safer
Ashish Pujari: 28:20
work from home policy? Well, this is This is a topic completely beyond me. How and I am sure that's happening. We have. Sometimes when you work for large corporations, you take these things for granted. I have seen, you know, within ASAP this happening, we had to, um, click on certain buttons to make sure that yeah, our computers, Esther, you know, basic compliant to these new security standards and all that. But this is this is not my strength. And I want to inspire a degree.
Andrei Palamariu: 28:56
No, but like you said, um, I know ASAP has so many layers, and you have to make sure everything is in order until, uh, when you have the working from home police and so on. Yeah, and going through tow the hiring topic. I know there's a lot of companies who have put hiring on on hold or are delaying some decisions. How is hiring affected for For recipe?
Ashish Pujari: 29:21
Um, I would, um let's let's talk about froma from a business 10 point. We are here that if there is a business critical higher to be done, we would go ahead with it, and I'll give you an example. So I've lost, you know, six or eight months I've been working on building what we call as a lapse as supplies and innovation lab around the whole industry for daughter topic in Japan. And we we had already secured head counts for those on that we see as business critical for us because we have already engaged with customers. We have started some co innovation with customers on. We have started the process off, making sure that that is a lot of adoption of our solutions in the customer environment there. So we would not hold that back. We would go ahead and do that. We'll hire those people power. You know, most companies I know or the ones I'm talking to are suggesting selective hiring right focuses on talent, retention rather than talent, scouting and hiring. That's something that I'm hearing and I'm seeing around myself. With the emphasis on companies trying to kind of leap from the others and become a data driven enterprise, I'm seeing a small surge in demand force, the analysts, its supply chain planners. Either. Science is kind of guys and, you know, I see that happened because, you know, well, we discuss that right in the initial part of our discussion right now that we want to make these processes board data driven more automated to make sure that there is a certain amount of resilience building for
Andrei Palamariu: 31:17
the future. Um, I know a lot of our can clients. Candidates in the same time are in a situation where you have a bit more flexibility working from home, where you can also take advantage of online education, and you can polish or even learn new skills. Do you think this data focus? Kids analytics business intelligence planning are the highest in demand of the moment. If you were to tow, give advice to somebody, what are the skills he or she should learn or focus on at the moment with these? Be the ones absolutely
Ashish Pujari: 31:58
on. I said it already right that we were seeing that with the whole industry for 0.0, objectives kicking in with data driven supply chains, data driven our enterprises kicking and intelligent technology is being deployed at scale, and it's no more pure sees. They are being deployed at scale. Now we're seeing more and more the requirement off. You know, experts who understand the management of data and use it. JJ off this data for superior outcomes, so absolutely, these are the skills that are in demand on Dhe will stay in demand as we try to build in redundancies in supply chain out of these kind of disruptions that keep hitting us.
Andrei Palamariu: 32:50
Um, as as we get closer to the last questions I wanted to ask her, she's so, um, a pack as a whole is quite diverse. Do you see any of the APEC markets that are doing a better job both in economic terms may be recovering better or even, uh, I don't know which coming up with the innovations compared to others. Are there certain markets where you see higher demand in your products In your business?
Ashish Pujari: 33:20
Well, um, the crisis part of it is still not over, right? As I mentioned that, the Taylor is going to be long, but from the early indications that we're getting the momentum that that existed in 2019 or the tail end of 2019 seems to still go on. So if you talk about, say, say the mining and resource is cos in Australia and they're trying to reinvent themselves, those discussions are still on. They haven't pulled the plug out of depth. That or you talk over this big, large chemical companies or oil and gas companies in North Isha where they were looking at. How can we make there, you know, help them make their assets. As you're more and more intelligent on dhe, make sure that the cost of servicing off those assets are going down while the up time is managed on those discussions are still going on. So I I think, you know, if people have come out with certain ideas for a long term digital transformation, those are still on the map. Obviously, you know, there is a scrambling going on. There is there are certain priorities that are being kind of shifted. But I I would think as soon as things get into control, these initiatives will be back on the radar.
Andrei Palamariu: 34:55
And I think Asia is in a better position to recover faster than, unfortunately, Europe and us. We were talking before the recording did the arrow in a bad shape for the moment. So hopefully it will be better. You know, as is the last thought from from your side. What should we spect in the next few months? And how should we prepare plating professionals?
Ashish Pujari: 35:19
Wow, that is a profound question. Mmm. So the threat off this deadly virus is very real, right? I mean, while governments all over the world are trying to contain the spread, the situation is extremely fluid. This is the time for supplies and heads to do some smart scenario planning. Using intelligent technologists, they should cover their entire cycle of designed to operate, starting with getting some really customer experience data taking a hard look at product design so that it's in line with the customer expectations, improved planning and manufacturing. Toby. More data driven use networks to ensure smart logistic simulations on and to invisibility on dhe kind of take the time to make their assets smarter. So obviously this will not happen simultaneously. But defining the vision to create supply chain resilience is key. You remember the old joke, Andre, Um, how do you eat an elephant, then? The hunt's answer. B one bit of time, right. So companies need to privatize and act now. So one step at a time, but a line to the vision off on entrance supplies and resilience. So, you know, for the longest time used to talk about supplies in excellence. But, you know, with this whole destruction, that is staring at our face. I feel supply gendered zillions takes center stage. And I think that's that's my parting statement.
Andrei Palamariu: 36:58
Uh, thank you very much. I have to agree with that statement. Resilience is first priority and will be for a long time now. Everything around us is changing. And, uh, thank you for ah, for sharing your wisdom with us. Um, we will be happy to share resources. That's a P is promoting and trying tow to use us tools to help at the moment. So, yeah, let's hope for the best. Thank you very much for having me on this podcast. I really appreciate your contribution as well, because I love this conversation and I look forward to hearing most of you. My place. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to our podcast for all the show notes. Information discussed in the episode please follow elka global dot com slash podcast. Also, if you found this interesting, please subscribe on iTunes, Spotify stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts from. Yeah,