Splash Considerations Ep. 5: Giants Take Series in San Diego with John Shea, Kerry Crowley (Plus: MLB Corner with Alex Stumpf)

SAN FRANCISCO — The Giants won their first series of the Tony Vitello, taking two of three from the Padres in San Diego, and John Shea and Kerry Crowley of the San Francisco Standard join the show to talk ball. What can be made of Matt Chapman's confrontation with Casey Schmitt? How significant was Vitello's decision to let Logan Webb keep pitching on Tuesday? Is Willy Adames at leadoff the best lineup possible? Plus, long-time Pirates reporter Alex Stumpf joins for the first MLB Corner (which, coincidentally, is about the Pirates).

Additional reading
SF Giants’ Tidwell records rare three-inning save on milestone-filled night

Susac records three hits in first career start as SF Giants’ overpower Mets

‘We’re all brothers here’: SF Giants’ Chapman, Schmitt clear air on tense moment

How Jared Oliva fought his way onto SF Giants’ roster after four years in minors

How Webb’s San Diego Navy SEALs experience fueled gutsy outing for SF Giants

‘I’ll be plotting my revenge’: SF Giants’ Vitello gets beer shower treatment in first win as rookie manager

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Welcome to another episode of Splash Considerations. My name is Justice Delosanto, San Francisco Giants beat reporter for the San Jose American News, and I have two living legends amongst me. This is John Shay to my right, San Francisco Standard. This is Carrie Crowley to my left, also of the San Francisco Standard. I was just thinking I was gonna do it John today, but then Carrie rolls through. It's like, hey, when we have an opportunity to get the great Carrie Crowley on the air, as well as the greater John Shea, you take that opportunity. Gentlemen, how are we doing?

SPEAKER_03 0:39

He's the multimedia star. I'm not the multimedia star. Him.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

He's you! Ah, come on. Shea. We were in the dugout the other day, and Will Clark rolls by and goes, Happy 80th opening, Jay, John Shea. And you know what? Will was only off by eight opening days. He've done 72 of those things between the Giants PAs, the Padres, yeah, two per year, so you know what? Uh, I don't belong in this conversation. John Shea's been doing this a long time. I'm not fifth generation San Franciscan like you. There we go, there we go. So we can go on and on, but the real point is, happy to be here, Justice.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Appreciate it. And uh before we get into talking some giants baseball, I just want to make this very quick point because I know Carrie's gotta run to Chase Center because he gets more important things than talking giants baseball with me and John. But when this podcast was a baby, basically back in 2020, when I was still in school, didn't have anything to do, decide to start this. This was the very first guest that we had, and the audio was horrible, I was a horrible host. There was a lot of development still to be had, so this is very much a full circle moment, especially because you were covering the team. You were you basically had the job that I have now. So this is very much in that regard a full circle moment. So happy Euron. Especially happy year on because the last time we recorded, it got wiped. It got wiped out. Maybe we're winter meetings. You had a glass of wine, maybe for the best. Allegedly. I did have a glass of wine. Anyhow, we are sitting here today before the Giants game on Thursday against the New York Mets. They just come out of a series where they took two or three against the San Diego Padres. A lot to get into, but obviously the the buzziest thing from that series was that happened on Wednesday. Me and you were obviously down in San Diego. That was the whole Matt Chapman telling Casey Schmidt to throw the effing ball. There was obviously two plays, and we'll we'll clip it in exactly what that those play looked like. But Shay, I'll start with you because you're obviously there, you saw the post-game scene. Just what did you make of the entirety of that scene? Chapman's comments, how Chapman and Schmidt handled it, and Carrie, I'll throw it over to you as well once John's done talking about it.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

No, I thought I thought the manager's quote was the best. It's like two brothers in the backyard playing catch and the younger one not catching it, and the older one saying, dude, catch the ball, maybe without the F-bomb. And to me, I could relate because I have four brothers, and I'm four out of five. So that happened. Yeah, they're more musicians now, but they were ball players. So anyway, um, you look and you look at what happened. I was totally fine with what happened. And I actually went up to Chapman after I actually before the game today, and I explained to him, I said, Yeah, you know, that was well done, how you handled that, you and Casey Schmidt. You were stand-up guys, and you could have easily moved on, not been available, or said, or said something like, you know, we we we we we didn't talk about it. We you're you know, he what he what he offered to us was was good. He made it a one-day story. Whether there will be any repercussions, who knows? But it wasn't Jeff Kent fighting the dugout, it wasn't Draymond, you know, punching a teammate, it was a little thing that happens countless times a year. This one just happened to be caught on camera. But my point in this story is I I think it was a good thing because why did Buster Posey hire Tony Vitello? Energy, passion, right? Um if anger is part of that, so be it. There's anger because you were down a few runs and we gotta get better. And Schmidt admitted afterward, he was right, I should have made the plays, and I do gotta get better. So that's what good teammates do, and even though some people might not appreciate how it was done, that's how baseball players police themselves.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Yeah, it's well said. And I think, you know, when I was thinking back on this, Shay, was the Bonds Kent episode in San Diego? It was in San Diego.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

Jack Murphy Stadium. Yeah, where are you coming to?

SPEAKER_02 4:27

I was there. Unbelievable. I mean, I remember that so vividly watching on TV as a kid because I think that they went to commercial as it happened and then they came back and they had to show it in the dugout. Yeah. And it was like, I'd never experienced that watching baseball my whole life. And to see that in the dugout, and then you also discuss, you know, this isn't Jeff Kempberry Bonds, this isn't Jordan Poole, Draymond Green. This is something that happens all the time. And I think it's important in an age where social media can clip anything, where these little moments are brought and uh, you know, they go viral. They go viral because they're different, fans care deeply, they want to see the drama of baseball. I think it's important to put it in perspective, and both of you guys did that with your stories, which is you know, these guys are in it for the long haul. 162, Tony Vitello put that into perspective, and ultimately, a team that cares is a team that fans want to watch, and I think that's the most important part of all of this.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

And one of the things that, you know, thinking about it after the fact is name me a World Series champion that has not had something in the ballpark of this happen at some point. It is bound to happen over the course of a 162 game season. I'm sure you've seen it a ton of times. And I I was thinking about it from like I I took even more of like a psychological approach to it. Like, what's worse than like an extr- I don't even want to call it extreme, like what is worse than an outburst of emotion like that? It's indifference, it's not caring at all. And I think the other perspective of it is like some people my fans might say, like, oh, like, you know, that's not maybe the way you should handle it, which you know, there's an argument to be made there, but also it's just gonna happen. It's a matter of time for that happens, and I think to your point, the way that they handle it, the way they went about it, it's bound to happen. They handled it, they both face the music. And now we move on. And now we move on.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

And what Schmidt said after the game yesterday, hey, this is the guy who's been in my corner. You know, he supported me. If you remember, Schmidt came up as a third baseman, period. He didn't have a whole lot of reps at the other positions, he's still learning first base. That was a true first baseman. That was his 24th game at first, and he didn't pick up the position until last year in Houston. He's done last April. He's done far better than other major leaguers who have made the transition. And guess what? He's all in on learning. Just moments ago, Ron Washington was working with him on when to stretch for the ball. It sounds easy, but in real time, when Chapman's thrown 98 across the diamond, when do I stretch? Oh, this is high, the runner's coming up on me, it's bang bang. He stretched too early, he was too low, the ball uh you know went right off the top of his mitt, and it was an error. And by the way, there were two E5s yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

It got changed. So initially, there was in the first inning that error was charged to Schmidt, and then the one in the fifth inning that was charged to Chapman, Major League Baseball today. Whether you agree or not. I disagree with both. You you just so you think they should have been both charged to Schmidt? That's fair, that's fair. But to your point, like the knowing when to stretch, and Carrie, I'll throw this over to you, knowing when to stretch is such a small thing in playing first base. And I think that having that happen in a really weird way, it's kind of a it kind of loops back around to Bryce Eldridge, where like they want to make sure his development is right, and a lot of the small things are the things that they want Eldridge to know, and one of those small things is knowing when to stretch. And you know, this is not to like make everything Bryce-centric, but I think that those are not two like unrelated points. I think that seeing a moment like that, seeing in real time someone trying to learn the intricacies of first base is what Bryce is doing right now in AAA.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

It is, but the one thing that I'd just say counter to that, who would you rather have teaching Bryce Elders to stretch than Ron Washington? I mean, the guy's the ultimate guru, he is the one who can translate that information to anyone. And so while he's working with Casey Schmidt today, and that's great for Casey Schmidt's development, ultimately Bryce Elders' best learning opportunity is going to come under Ron Washington. So I don't know if they should have hired Ron to just follow Bryce around all year, because he's doing a pretty good job with Luisa Rias and a number of other Giants infielders as well. But I ultimately think you're gonna see the biggest leaps of Bryce game when he's working with Wash.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

When he works with Wash, when he makes his major league, not major league debut, when he makes his season debut that is yet to be determined. I want to go back to game two of the series because when you look at Logan Webb's line, six innings, three runs, four walks, five starts, or five strikeouts, that doesn't scream like a vintage Logan Webb start, but there were two things that really stuck out. One was the fact that after the third inning, when he allows the three runs, proceeds to retire the final ten batters of the game. He actually mentioned how he saw the the Navy Navy SEALs like practicing and that kind of like allowed him to snap into things, but it was also the fact, and I think you pointed this out in your story as well, because John Shane, I do read you, I do I do read you, John Shane at the San Francisco standard. He's wearing it right here. Can the camera see that move the hand? We can see that right there. But you know, one of the points that you made was that you know, this is a manager having faith in his guy, and in that third inning, it did get really dicey, and even you know, after the fourth inning, there may have been an opportunity to take him out of that game, but strikes out the side in the fifth. He had 92 pitches after five innings and said, We're gonna have Logan go out. And Logan did admit after the game, if he allowed the first base runner that inning to reach, he's probably taken out. But he gave him that opportunity, ends up with his first in many quality starts of the year, and it kind of felt like again, it's hard to parse out too much from just like one game. We're gonna have to see a lot more. But I think it was telling of Vitello, you know, letting him navigate that storm and then letting him go out for the sixth in.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

Buster Posey once told me that the beauty of Lindsacum, Kane, and Bub Garner was getting in trouble early and pitching his pitching their way out of it. In other words, all the greats are able to do that. The not so greats will dig a hole and not climb themselves out. But what this new manager did, and would Gabe Kappler have pulled him early just because these guys aren't humans, they're numbers. Um and we saw that over and over, one out away from a win, let's pull him out. Uh, it doesn't do good for morale, but it worked a lot for him in 2021. He was a master, right? He was a manager of the year. But you fast forward to this 47-year-old out of Tennessee, and there hasn't been much high-leverage situation here in the early going, but then you get to the Logan Webb game, and when do we pull him? When do we let him go? He was at 92 pitches after five innings, he finished with 104, but the key was not pulling him early, maybe in an in it. Nobody's more inexperienced than he is, but but another inexperienced manager might say, you know what? We took a four or nothing lead, now it's four to three, he just gave up three. Let's go to the bullpen, make it a bullpen game. And this guy, to his credit, said, No. I know this guy, he's our guy. He likes to say he's our guy. A lot of our guys. He's got a lot of our guys, and left him in there, like you said, uh 10 in a row. He retired. And that last inning, he kept getting better. Every inning was a little bit shorter, every inning was a little bit crisper, and in the end, you know, he celebrated a victory that he might not have had under another manager.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Carrie, the way that I'll throw this over to you is what did you make of that decision to let you know Logan you know find his composure after the fourth? But then also kind of sticking with the tone of the theme. Vitello says that exact phrase a lot, sticking to the theme. But sticking with the theme of Vitello, what have you made about you know these first six games and how he's managed him? Because it was a point after the third game of the Yankees series that he didn't use a pinch runner until the 27th inning of his managerial career, has not really utilized his bench a whole lot. We didn't see a pinch hitter until the eighth inning of yesterday's game. So, what did you make of Vitello with Webb overall, but also just how he's gone about managing ball games so far, even in such a small sample size?

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Yeah, I think he's really kept the big picture in mind. Logan Webb was starting on Monday of the first of a 10-day stretch, which the Giants are playing every single day. The difference between 15 outs and 17 outs, not even finishing that sixth inning, but just getting to 17 outs, saves your bullpen two extra outs on the first day of this long stretch. And so even if Webb allows a base run to that inning, he's at least given himself the opportunity to save a reliever. And he got through that inning, and so you save one more reliever, and that has a ripple effect throughout the rest of this 10-day stretch. I think it obviously goes a long way in terms of building the confidence of a Webb, instilling uh the belief inside the clubhouse that he's gonna stick with his quote unquote guys. But I think just big picture, it's a smart strategy, and it's one that I think Buster talked to John about, and you know, explaining with the greatness of a Mac Kane, a Tim Linskum, a Madison Mumgarner, these guys can get you six, and what that does is that eases the burden on everyone else. And with this unproven bullpen, like I they've had a better start to the season than I anticipated, but nevertheless, who would you rather have on the mound? A tired Logan Webb at 100 pitches or the guy they're calling up from AAA because someone has to go down uh because of arm fatigue. And so I I think each and every time you take the tired starting pitcher at 80, 90, and in Webb's case, 95 pitches, then you do anyone else.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

I think that's a good transition into the bullpen right here. As you mentioned, Jose But was placed on the 15A injured list with right arm uh fatigue. We saw the velocity with his really dip by the end of his outing. He was barely touching 90, and we'll get to that more uh in another episode once we kind of get a little more clarity as to what that might be. And and I think best case scenario is that it just is arm fatigue. And I think you do also have to wonder having coming off the world baseball classic, he obviously helped Venezuela win a title. You do have to wonder, and it is fair to wonder, like what you know factor that may have played, but I want to stick with the bullpen as a whole. That was the big question mark coming into the season. If you could pinpoint one area of this Giants team that stood to be a weakness, it was that bullpen. Aside from, you know, Bhutto's kind of I I don't even want to categ like lump this in there just because he was dealing with the injury, but aside from Buto's adding yesterday and even Brian Walker's kind of shaky Monday, the bullpen as a whole has looked really well. John, what have you made about this bullpen as a whole? Is it, you know, are you allowing yourself to be optimistic about it, or are you still kind of having like a little bit of hesitancy when it comes to saying that this is a bullpen that can protect, as we saw, like a three-run lead in enemy territory.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

What did uh Bhutto have? Arm fatigue? It was arm fatigue. I'm kind of getting that during this podcast. Hold this heavy microphone. Heavy? You gotta get the weights up, John Shea. No, you're right. That was the biggest question mark coming in, the bullpen. Because nobody had roles. We go we went up to relievers and say, hey, what's your role? I don't know. What's your role? I don't know. And even the closer. Well, I want to be the closer, but it hasn't been designated. Well, obviously, Ryan Walker is a closer because nobody else has closing experience here. And they talk about Eric Miller and yeah, you know, against tough lefties in the ninth. But the modern way of thinking about relievers is high levers could be in the seventh or eighth. It doesn't necessarily have to be in the ninth. And we did see Ryan Walker come in early, it was kind of garbage time uh in his first game of the year against the Yankees. Um but that was that was an issue too with with the save situation. And he gave up a home run, they still won by a run, and everybody celebrated. But to see Keaton win uh as a setup guy in the eighth inning, strike out the side was like the biggest moment of the year in the bullpen. It was amazing for a guy that I don't remember, maybe you guys have seen him in any high-leverage situations before, and suddenly they picked this guy at this moment.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Do you consider the Birmingham game high leverage? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Because of the stakes? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

That's Keaton Wynn right there.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Okay, you're right about that. That was the biggest game of the year in 24. That was an emotional day, man. Yeah. That was Willie Mays week.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

That was one of those things where like I was jealous that like of everybody that got together. Like, I was seeing it from afar, I was seeing the broadcast. I'm like, this is cool to see on the broadcast, but it's one of those things I wish I could be there. And also, just gonna give a quick shout-out to John Shea, only man on this planet who has written a book about both Willie Mays and Ricky Henderson. Again, he's gonna under, he's gonna downplay the greatness. We're in the presence of greatness. But uh, Carrie, I want to throw this over to you. Obviously, you know, Ryan Walker kind of is the closest thing to a closer, and we have been asking, are you gonna name a closer? Are you like, do you have a definite closer? And like, I tried even asking in San Diego, where I can't remember exactly how it was phrased, but Tony was saying something about Walker in the ninth inning, and so I was like, is he your ninth inning? Guys like, uh, well, we have a lot of guys now. We can go to the ninth inning. It does feel like in order for this Giants team, like not even the bullpen, this team as a whole to maximize its potential, they are gonna need somebody to, you know, emerge as a closer, whether it's Walker, whether it's I mean, Keaton win, it just looked phenomenal. I do think at some point they are gonna have to make a decision as to who is gonna be their ninth inning guy, and because again, last year when we saw this bullpen at its best, it was guys in defined roles. Whether or not we see that, whether or not we do get this defined roles, whether someone kind of snatches that, I think it's kind of to be determined. But I think at least even if it's not Walker, there are some kind of options there as far as how you can mix and match this going forward.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Yeah, there's a few options, and the thing that I always lean on is stuff and it's cliche, but if you're throwing 98 and you got extension like Keaton Wynne does and uh, you know, Caleb Killian does, that matters because you're generating whiffs, and what's the worst thing that can possibly happen in the ninth inning? Contact, awkward contact. Ryan Walker with that crossfire delivery gets a little bit of awkward contact. It's not all that dissimilar from Tyler Rogers, who was tremendous in the eighth inning, one of the best eighth inning pitchers in Giants history, but couldn't really do it in the ninth inning, in part because I think weird things happen in those situations, the unexplainable things happen in those situations. I look at Walker's more as, you know, long-haul eighth inning because of the crossfire delivery. And I think one of these guys with the truly elite stuff who can touch 98-99 on the gun, maybe one of them will ultimately work their way into that opportunity over the course of the season.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

One of the points that I've always kind of made when it's come to the bullpen, specifically high leverage relievers, is the importance of just being like having above average strikeout rates and like how that kind of correlates to above average bullpen performance. And because there's because as you mentioned, there's going to be awkward contact from time to time, and then there's going to be a situation when it's runners on second and third, and you don't need a ground ball out, you don't need a pop-out, you need a strikeout point blank period. So again, we saw Ryan Walker be really effective in that ninth inning role in 2024, didn't really see it that much in 2025. Whether or not we continue to see it in the ninth inning going forward, that's to be determined. As Andrew Bagley hates the phrase, time will tell, because time has never failed to tell. But what time has told us through these first six games is the Giants' offense has been off to a bit of a shaky start. And you know, you were very you wrote the story about Luisa Bryce, because again, I read you. Tony Tony Gwynn and it was the Ry crew was the was it Godfather? Was it the grandfather? Grandfather. Grandfather. So this Giants lineup is definitely like when you just look at the names, it's the deepest lineup that they have in Hack in quite some time. I think probably in at least a decade. Off to a bit of a slow start. What have you made about the advance overall, the offensive production overall, especially because you can throw out the fifth game of the season where they have a nine-run outburst, it's like three runs or fewer and shut out and back to that game is to start the season?

SPEAKER_03 19:47

Well, the biggest question coming in was where are you going to hit Luisa Rice? He told us, remember in spring training, hey, I wouldn't mind leading off. And if you look at his numbers, he's let off most of the time, and that's where he's done most of his success, at least in terms of batting average and OPS and all that stuff. But you took, remember, we talked to the the hitting coach and Hunter Metz, and he told us he would like to see him in an RBI situation. And the manager was saying, hey, you know, I kind of like him as leadoff. So there's a there's a huge debate in the room. All the coaches, you know, in the front office and the stat guys, analytic people, and they began the season with him hitting first and they lost their first two games. And now he's a cleanup guy. And I guess he hit what four, nine times last year. So he has a little experience, a lot more than Williad Damas at the leadoff spot. But man, that guy can hit, and more than anybody else, he puts the bat on the ball. And how many two strike counts have we seen? He he relishes and braces two strike counts.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

I mean, I haven't I haven't looked it up, but the amount of times he's just a point blank period taking that first strike without any intentions of uh you know wanting to swing, he is comfortable in those situations.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

He he loves hitting behind in the count, yeah, yeah, one-two, two-two, three-two, oh two. And how many guys can say that? Because suddenly, if you're in a two-strike count of any kind, you're gonna chase, you're gonna protect yourself. You don't want to get called looking for strike three. But this guy, you know, he he might as well just go up with the hey, just give me two strikes now, and I'll hit from here. Because I'm a better hitter that way. And he said so. And if you look at him in the on-deck circle, he chokes up, he uses a heavier bat. If you watch him in BP down here, same thing, he used a heavy bat, but then he goes to the plate and he doesn't choke up, even with two strikes. So, all that stuff your little league coach told you, choke up with two strikes. He does the opposite. But unlike most of this industry, all the guys who step to the plate and try to whack it over that wall out there and worry about exit velocity and launch angle, he measures, as you know, because you know this better than anybody, in the one percentile, in all the stats that a lot of front offices look at. But not Buster Posey because he loves content.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Yeah. And Carol, we kind of are we kind of came of age as baseball writers in an era where the stereotypes of like how you would see a lineup constructed, those started to fade. Like we see Kyle Schwarber in the leadoff spot, and obviously we now see William Damas in the leadoff spot. I don't know necessarily if this is the spot where I want to see him hitting long term. I don't think it's going to be the spot that we're going to see him hitting in long term. What do you make of like what is the best way to like all being equal? Like, what do you think is the best way to maximize what these Giants truly have in their line? Because it's a lot of everyday guys. It's probably going to be the same mix that we have here. Like, would you like to see like guys like a Rise and Junk who staggered? Do you mind Adamus in the leadoff spot? Like, how would you kind of, if I had to make you manager for a day and we're not doing the Billy Martin, pick the names out of a hat, like how would you kind of arrange this? He knows his history.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

There we go. Right handed, right-handed pitcher on the mound. I go Adamas leading off, I go Devers batting second, I go Chapman hitting third, and I go Arise in the fourth spot. And that's how I feel today, April 2nd. Uh I'll give you a different answer every day of the season. I swear, I change my mind as much as the Kappler era uh analytics folks change their mind on this stuff. Jay is much more grounded in his analysis of this team. He's the guy you want to ask this question to. My thoughts change uh based on who gets hot.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Yeah, honestly, I think it's really dependent. And I think with lineups, I think at the minimum, if you want to talk about knowing history, we're kind of past the point where like Barry Bonds is like batting fifth for the 93 Giants. Like, we're never gonna see that. So now it's just more so a matter of like, alright, like on this individual day, like, how do we go about maximizing what we have, who's on the mound? The one thing that I will say, and I think this was mentioned on Giants talk, shout out to Alex Babovich and Cole Kuyper, is that in the Giants kind of having this all right-handed bench, I think it's made it, you know, say what you want about Kaplar and how he like was really aggressive. The Giants are more talented now. I think that they were more of an irritant during that, like, that Farhan game time because like you never knew like what they were gonna do. It's like they were always trying to hunt matchup, they were always trying to be aggressive, and kind of based off the construction of this team, you know, it's a lot of everyday guys, there's maybe not gonna be as many opportunities to pinch your just what do you make of you know the overall roster construction, live construction? Like, do you like the fact that they have so many everyday guys? Do you wish that there was a little more variance in the bench? Like, what do you make of just this these first couple six games from that perspective of kind of being an irritant to the opposing team?

SPEAKER_03 24:32

You're calling it 107 wins an irritant?

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Um I mean that's irritant.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

It is irritating. Major, major irritating. Um I think it's an offshoot of what Buster Posey believes in, and what he believes in is players out there who want to play every day. Why was he involved in the extension for Chapman? He plays every day. Why did he say um sign Adamus? He plays every day. And then trade for Debers. He plays every day. He played 163 games last year in 162-game season, and figure that out. Luisa Rise likes to play every day, Harrison Bader likes to play every day. And so the guys he got who are new are people who want to play every day. So this is kind of turning into his team. His fingerprints are all over this lineup, if not roster. There are some players who carried over from the previous regime, but even Elliot Ramos likes to play every day. Jung Hoo, if he can stay healthy. So I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And people keep asking the manager every day, when's Gerard gonna play? How come Susac's not out there? Well, he is out there today. He is out there today. So if you're watching this, Daniel Susak will have amazed his debut. And we're looking at the family, I think, right over here. There are a lot of Susac jerseys. You sure that's the family? Or not just the biggest Susac fans around. Susac heads. Actually, I think I did see a line outside the uh the Giants dugout store. And maybe those are you know flying off the shelves.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Sound like hotcakes flying off the shelves. Kerry, I know you gotta get out of here. I know you gotta get to Chase Center, but before I let both of you leave, just going forward, maybe the rest of this month, the rest of this season, what is one element of this Giants team of which you're most curious? What is the part where you're like, I want to see how that works now? There's a very obvious answer. I don't know if you're gonna take it. Uh-oh. Now there's pressure, if there's an obvious.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

My answer is what John Shea writes the next time this team goes on the road. Because I can't wait to see the ideas. Oh man. Is that a cop-out? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

Well, go ahead, R Shay. What do you what are you most curious about? It's it's Rafi Devers. When is he gonna play like we saw in Boston on a regular basis? Remember that when they traded him, they started losing. And they never uh overcame all those losses in his first few weeks. So he he's he's making some contact, he strikes out a lot. He told us that he'll always strike out. He's trying to crush every ball. Management is fine with that, that's why they're trying to surround him with more contact guys, so there's more balance in the lineup. But we haven't seen him at first base, so we haven't seen the complete Rafi Devers. But once we do, you know, this team could take off because we've seen it in Boston how good he could be for long stretches of time, and I don't think we've seen that, have we?

SPEAKER_01 27:14

We haven't, we haven't. As Rafi, as uh not Rafi Devers, but as William Adam said after the game on Tuesday, he might be faster than Elliot. He may be faster than Elliot faster than you, brother.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

I put it or the running back over here.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

I got in five miles today. I would hope, I would hope just for my own pride, I could get it get down the line a little faster than Ramos. We we were talking a lot about last spring. I think you wrote the story actually about like who's faster, Fitzgerald or Grandma Craig. I want to see Elliot Ramos and Rafael Devers get on the track and see who exactly is faster so we can get that theory for Willie Damas once for all. But anyhow, this was the pleasure. I'm hoping we can do in this a lot more over the course of the season. John Shea, Carrie Crowley, San Francisco Standard, you know where to find him, go read them. Just Delosanto, San Jose Mercury News, Splash Considerations. Catch y'all later. And I'm joined by Alex Stumpf, longtime Pittsburgh Pirate Supporter, and quite frankly, one of the best friends I have in my circle. And Alex, this is gonna be the first of many times we talk about happenings around Major League Baseball. And we were brainstorming the night before about things we wanted to talk about because we've had a handful of games under our belt now, a lot of different things to talk about. And I know you're not in the Bay Area, Alex, and about 1.30 in the morning, there was a 5.0 earthquake in San Jose. I felt the reverberation all the way out here in the East Bay, and I say that to say that must have been the news that Connor Griffin is getting called up to the majors for the part you like that transition. You you can't don't pretend you don't like that transition. Connor Griffin's here. Let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Yeah, yeah. I don't know if I'm gonna bring in a natural disaster in my discussion of Connor Griffin. I know that. Yeah, the top prospect in the game is getting called up. He is as good as advertised from what I have seen. I mean, we're gonna have to see it at the major league level, but like he earned this promotion. He has earned a spot on a big league roster before his 20th birthday. I think that says everything you need to know about the guy right there. Yeah, like he's he's a baby, except you look at him and he's built like a tight end. Like, if he was gonna suit up for the Steelers this offseason, no one would blink an eye. Like, he's a huge dude with these physical gifts, and he's got a good head on his shoulder to be humbled by, he's got a drive to build on those gifts. Like, there are a lot of people that you know we've known that maybe have been their right arm or you know, their bat has been kissed by the baseball gods, and that's all they you know end up doing. It's like, no, I see drive, I see what you want. Like, I I think maybe his promotion or his recognition as the game's top prospect may have been a little premature at the time, but I think everyone who was around him just saw like, no, he is just going to keep getting better. Like, you may be early, but you're not wrong here.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Dude, some of the some of the comps I was seeing this like in spring training were getting like crazier and crazier. And I was like, I was like, are we just gonna call him like the next Willie Mays at this point? Because it's like that's like the natural stuff. Like, you think I'm exaggerating, but like I was seeing like Mike Trout and like Bobby Witt Jr. And I'm like, nope, like if you're like there are really smart people saying these words, and I'm not just gonna assume they're maybe a little bit of hyperbole, but like I'm not gonna assume it's all based on hyperbole. If you have this many smart people saying this many great things, they're probably alright to some extent.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Yeah, and I I will admit I am a bit of a pessimist in nature, and I have seen many uh That's news to me. Yeah, many a pirate, you know, prospect come up and not hit the ground running. So like I I wrote about that a little bit, you know, just like what is the plan B if this isn't perfect? What if he is not ready? What if you brace yourself for this? A 19-year-old is not the best version of himself quite yet.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Hold on, I gotta put down the mic. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, what if a 19-year-old isn't immediately a future Hall of Famer? Whoa, that's what a shocking yeah, I've never heard that before.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Yeah, and and I have some trepidations with that. Like, he's gonna come up with basically no safety net. I don't know if he's quite ready yet. He was eaten up by Major League Fastball's all-spring training, is what it is. Um that was also the first time he saw like Major League Fastball, so I'm not gonna hold that much against him. I think this is stuff that he could learn. He's gonna still grow, he's still gonna develop. I think in a perfect world, you would have given him more time in triple A to develop, but they're gung-ho about that that PPI and getting a draft pick and you know, everything that he could potentially bring. The pirates need an impact player on that left side of the infield, and he is basically their only option with respect to Jared Triolo.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

And that that that's utility gold glover, Jared Triolo. And yes, that's actually an interesting point that you bring up with the PPI and the potential draft pick compensation, is that there's obviously been a lot of discussion about him signing a contract extension. You know, again, I'm not gonna pretend like I'm in the know-how here, but I've seen, you know, I think the Pirates want it closer to what Corbin Carroll got. I think, you know, the reporting is that you know, he wants it closer to what Roman Anthony got. And but regardless of what that contract looks like, if he signs that, they lose that draft pick conversation. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Yeah, if he debuts and then he signs, they're eligible. But if he would have signed and then gotten caught up. So, like, this was always gonna be how it goes. Like, if he would have made the opening day team, then this contract would have happened, you know, a couple days after or in April or whenever. For what it's worth, I think there's a pretty good chance that this contract does end up coming together, just based off of everything I've heard.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Do you think that, you know, this is this goes back to 2022, the the home opener where well, I guess technically the Cabrian contract happened the actual opening day in St. Louis, but do you think that you know tomorrow we're getting a press conference for a Connor Gribbon extension, or is that a little too premature?

SPEAKER_00 33:47

A little too premature, I think. I mean, just I don't know exactly where they are in negotiations. I I would be shocked if it happened right now. I wouldn't be shocked if it happens in April, though. I mean, it's it's a long month.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

I mean, it'd be fun. It'd certainly be fun if it happened. Like, I again to your point too, like I wouldn't be shocked, and we're gonna get into the Cooper Pratt and the Colt Emerson contract extensions in a second, but I want to go back to a conversation we had. I think it was July 2024. I remember this, it was the same day that uh the United States beat France in uh the Olympics in the basketball game. We were watching that in your hotel before Pirates Dodgers. Uh, I wasn't covering the Pirates at the time, I just happened to be in LA and I said, Hey, I got my BBWAA card. Let me go see Paul Skeens at Dodg Stadium. And it was near the trade deadline, it was like sometime close to the trade deadline, and one of like the biggest vacancies the pirates had at the time was center field, and this was before O'Neill moved out there. And we were just talking about like what could the Pirates like hypothetically package together to get like a decent center fielder. And I think the guy that we circle was like Louis Robert Jr. And I just, you know, I hadn't been, you know, as in tune to the intermachinations of the pirate system at that time. So I just said, like, what if they can't have Connor Griffin's part of that deal? And you like instantly shot it down. You were like, this guy has like if everything hits right, like MVP upside. I was like, MVP upside, like who is this? Like, I know the name, but like what is he doing to warrant because I know like you said, you're not a guy that's gonna like warrant that praise. And I'm like, okay, like let's see what he does. And then we see everything that he does. So I'll throw it over to you. Like, for those of the listeners who may not be familiar, like when you had the opportunity to watch him, evaluate him, talk with folks, like what were the the tools that really jumped out to you the most? Or is there not one tool that jumps out because there's several that jump out?

SPEAKER_00 35:38

I mean, it's not necessarily a tool, but explosiveness is what I'm gonna come with. Just like that first step.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

We can call it a tool. We'll call it a tool.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yeah, I mean, I guess you could say speed, but like that's not what I mean though. Like, there's an explosiveness whenever he leaves a batter's box. There's an explosive explosiveness whenever he is trying to get a ball in the hole from shortstop. Like, there's just that first step everywhere is I I've never seen a first step like that. Like, it's something that just instantaneous, he is ready to go. And there's also, I mean, there's a ton of things to like about his game, to like about his swing, to like about how his approach on the bass paths, but like that first instinct from the if you were taking film on it, like that first frame, you're going to see something that I don't think you guys see from a lot of other people. And that's really what stands out and why I think he is so highly touted.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Yeah, and I think it is saying something that this isn't exactly like a weak like prospect class right now. Like the the fact that like he the fact that like he's number one and you have like JJ in St. Louis, you got the why am I blanking on his name? Who's the shortstop in Detroit? Why am I my Persach's gonna kill me? Why am I blanking on his name stump? What's his name? McGonagall? McGonagall. I was I was just completely blanking out for that. Great podcast moment right there. And then you got Chase Delauer in in the Cleveland too. Like, there's a lot of great prospects in the game right now, and the fact that he's number one is saying something. And I kind of want to, you know, get a little macroscopic when it comes to this conversation too, because you know, is it f I think it's fair to say that like this is like either last year or this year, like this is like probably one of the most important seasons in Pittsburgh Pirates baseball in quite a while. Um, I don't know if the vibe is quite playoff robust yet, but again, like that the Paul Skins clock is ticking, and it is an aggressive move. It might be one where you know he spends a couple weeks here and he might he just might not be ready. Like that, like that's also a reality. Like we saw it with Jackson Holiday, like he just was not quite ready for the majors. But if this hits and if he's just like a solid major leaguer, their floor and their ceiling through the roof, like not through the roof, but exponentially better than what it is without him.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Yeah, I mean they like I said, they needed an impact player on the left side of the infield. Like they brought in Brandon Lau, he's gonna help at second base. Ryan O'Hearn has been great. Uh they made those additions with Paul Skins kind of in mind of like maximizing that window, and Griffin coming up is also part of that. I I can't ignore the fact that if there was no Paul Skins, if this was the 2022 Pittsburgh Parts, you know, you were there where when O'Neal Cruz was having a great spring training in 2022 and you didn't make the team, and even though no one could explicitly say it was like, yeah, this team ain't it. This came I mean that's that's really what it is at the end of the year. They lost 100%. If they thought that they were competitive in 2022, I'm sure we would have seen you know O'Neal in March or April of that year. Instead, we saw him in June, whenever that was. So in 2026, they obviously feel like they have a much better shot, and we are seeing Connor.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

And I think you mentioning O'Neal, I think this is a good transition. And again, I covered the Pirates, so like naturally, like I know a lot more about pirates than the other team, but I think O'Neal is like one of my biggest curiosities for the 2026 season. I I wrote down the buckos as a whole, like all caps, but like O'Neill specifically, and obviously he had three homers in his first six games, is two of them were off lefties. You know this as much as I do, like the talent, like he if you wanted to argue like he's the most talented player in baseball, like it's not like if you said that, I wouldn't immediately like scoff at you.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Like it's legitimate, no, no, he's it's he's in the tier of like tattoos and judge of like theoretically could do anything at any time.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Yeah, and people like that you know just look at production are gonna hear that and be like, what are you talking about? But like it's legitimate, like for his entire career, he's had legitimate 40-40 upside, and uh we've seen the lowlights in previous seasons. We saw the lowlights on the first game of the season, and you know, I I'm not expecting him to like be a gold glove level defender or even just like a league average defender, but for me, just like looking at him, it's like can he get competent enough just with his hit tool, with his field tool, to let everything else shine? Like that's been the whole discussion with him for his entire career game. But as much as the 2026 Pirates ceiling is you know kind of dependent on how good Connor Griffin plays, I think it's also really dependent on whether O'Neal really, you know, we see that 40. I don't want to say 40-40 version. That's just like not fair of to like say that on somebody. But like, which version of O'Neal do we see? Do we see like the one that really taps into potential finally, or do we just see the guy that we've gotten the last couple seasons, which is still like a competent major league player, but you know, considering the tools, it's you know, it's been a bit of uh underwhelming.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

It's the left out, it's it's what it is. Like, and that's the frustrating part of him. Like, even though, like you said, he's hit the three home runs and he hit two against lefties, and he only hit one against lefties last year. And look at that strength he, you know, those strides he's making. And then he loses fly balls in the sun, and then he just absolutely misplays a line drive to center because he takes his first step in instead of taking the first step back, like they teach us in Little League. So there are just so many things that are are frustrating like that. I I don't think he is ever going to fully reach that you know potential to get that way. But I mean, like it was seemingly boundless, like you said, the tools. No one's hit a ball harder than him, no position player has thrown a ball harder than him. I think that kind of shows that like he has the potential to be theoretically one of the best.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Honestly, the best.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Like that's like that's legitimately the ceiling. Yeah, like there was I mean, I remember this conversation with you like 22-23. I'm like, if there is anyone on this team that has a a chance to be like a Hall of Famer, it's him.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

Yeah, and like Yeah, and we don't say that lightly. Like, this is like you know, I remember 2023, we were in Philly. Um, he wasn't playing, he was injured, but he was just taking batting practice. And I said, I'm gonna go up to the third deck. I'm just gonna I I feel like he's gonna hit one here. Like, I feel like he can. And I like it, like I had that thought during batting practice, so I literally sprinted, like, I got up the elevator. I sprinted all the way to the third deck, and like I'm just videotaping him, and like he hits one like five feet to the left of me, like easy power, and like the speed, he doesn't quite have that same when you talk about burst, he doesn't have like the same burst as Griffin, but like it takes him a while to get going, but like when he gets going, he's going, and then like the arm, it's like a cannon. So we've seen it in burst, but that's all it's been so far. Burst. Uh dependabo on the the Bucko conversation. Generally speaking, aside from Connor, aside from O'Neal, who are maybe the one or two guys who can impact the Pirates at the Major League, uh, aside from Paul Skeens. I don't think we need to say Paul Scheme.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

Yeah, Bubba Chandler and Braxton Ashcraft. Dogs.

unknown 43:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

Bubba's a dog is a dog. He he has a tendency to just try to punch himself out of bad situations with the fastball, and like you can do that every once in a while. He's got the good off speed and secondary stuff. I'd like to see him use it. I I'm just chalking it up to development. But he has that, you know, lack of a better way of saying it, uh, stinker, you know, risk with him either inning by inning or start by start, just like he could be as hot as you've ever seen him and then just fall out of sync and everything goes sideways right there. But the upside is so immense. He was once ranked the top pitching prospect in the game for a brief period of time. You could see why whenever you watch him pitch. And then Braxton, I think, could be the team's number two starter. Like, it's just the injury history and the concern of innings for him, but like that slider is as disgusting a pitch I have. Scene it's the best slider on staff. It's better than Skeens's. Like it's the best slider on staff, and he throws it for in the zone so often in a pitch that moves that much and still could be a called strike. It's unfair to hitters. Like whenever he started throwing that 40% of the time, that was like the okay, he's he's gotta figure this out. So yeah, it's those two guys. It's gonna be the pitching that leads this team if this team is going to be competitive. And with respect to like Mitch Keller, I think we all kind of know who he is. He's a solid big leaguer. I don't know if he's gonna be an all-star again. These other two guys have that type of all-star upside, though.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

We've talked about upside with Bracton Ashcraft, Bubba Chandler, O'Neill Cruz. And these are all guys who have shown that upside in the majors. Let's talk about guys who have not shown any upside in the major leagues at least, that are getting paid a lot of money. And I'm talking about Cooper Pratt, who signed an eight-year, fifth basically$51 million deal with the Milwaukee Brewers, has played like five games at AAA. And let's talk about Colt Emerson, eight years 95, who is uh had not made his major league debut yet either. And we've this is not like completely unfamiliar territory. We saw it, we saw it with Jackson Chorio, we saw it with Luis Robert Jr. But when these two types of deals happen like back to back in like the same week, and you you know that you have the Connor Griffin one potentially on the way to it, does make you you think a little bit? It's like, is this the new meta? Are we going in a new direction? I knew you were gonna I had that line prepared. I knew you were gonna make a face, but it does make you think a little bit. It's like, is this the direction that we might see you know these types of deals going forward? And I'll toss it over to you because this was one of your big things from this first week of baseball. Like just what are your overall thoughts on you know, two guys signing deals before making their major league debut in the same week? And also, what what are the dynamics of making 95 mil when you're in triple A and haven't made your debut either? That's just a random thought I want to throw out there, too.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Yeah, I mean it's not just them. I mean, we like I said, I expect a Conor Griffin contract to eventually come together. We saw the reports on JJ Weatherholt, you know, and and the Cardinals, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

So it's not just not career enough for the WBC teams, yeah, by the way. I just want to throw that out there.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Yeah, you know what? He he made the Mars PA team. Him and Ben Nar, you know, are gonna be on there. But yeah, that's I remember whenever these contracts first started coming out, it was for players who were still in that pre-Arb window and getting it done before arbitration really hit. Like Andrew McCutcheon and Starling Marte. I'm just uh gonna take the pirates lens here, but then we saw Mike Trout sign his contract before he was arbitration eligible. We saw uh a lot of guys across the league go go this route, but they all had some level of major league success.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

We've seen it with a lot of A's too, which different situations. That's the type of contract we're used to seeing where like they played and then they sign the deal. Like it's not this, at least at least most of the most of the time.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

And now I guess teams just have to assume more risk to get these type of contracts. Like, I think you you use the word meta for it, but like it might have to be just like it's always a hedged bet. It's the player being like, Okay, I'll take another bite of the apple later, give me my guaranteed generational wealth. And players seem to be less willing to do that whenever they have that year or two, and they see you know arbitration with insight, they're not too far away, and teams are instead meeting them where they are of like either whenever they're still in the minor leagues yet to debut or whenever they just debut. And honestly, those contracts for players who sign before they debut haven't really worked out, uh, by and large. Like Jackson Cherio looks like a pretty good deal, but John Singleton didn't work out. And uh who was it, Evan White? Like there are a handful of guys who who do, and then they just flame out. And you could say, well, good for the player, they got their contract right there, and it wasn't too detrimental to the team because they knew the risk that was coming along. So these were contracts that were usually in like$20,$30 million range, uh, like Jimenez for the White Sox and Robert. I I know Robert made a little more and he had his option picked up, so he made a lot more. But like there's not a ton of risk there, and instead, we're talking long, biggest contract of franchise history for Connor Griffin, who, if he signs it, will have at most a couple weeks of Major League experience, I imagine. That is a tremendous risk compared to like Brian Reynolds, who currently holds the record, who was an all-star by that point, who had four years of major league service time at that point. Like, it's a completely different scenario. And I'm wondering what happens whenever one or two of these busts for teams, like, do they do they just write this off? Do they become less common, or do they have to continue to meet players where they are and and hope and just hope that they're right on this? Because the main thing with Connor Griffin, I'll say here, they could have kept him in the minors until July and had six and a half years in control compared to the eight years they're gonna have right now, and he is not going to make that$100 million through arbitration with the pirates. So it's like, is that really worth that all that money for one and a half years in an option year you tacked on at the back end? You could argue not really.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

Yeah, it's like like you said, with like Singleton and Evan White, like and again, Churio and Robert, like this isn't like something that's completely different. I think it is important to contextualize this in like the grander scheme of like the CBA about to expire and like the all the uncertainty that's are like that's surrounding it. And when I was reading uh Ken Rosenthal's piece, friend of the program, Ken Rosenthal, um, in uh about this subject, like the one line that really stuck out, and I have it written down right here, is they water down future free agent markets, seemingly weakening the argument for cap. And like that was one of the points where I was just like, hmm. Like, I don't think like players are gonna take this into the the meetings and say, like, this is a reason like why we don't need a salary cap, but it's just one of those points like, hmm, like you kind of write that down, you just jot it down.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

One of the things I'm a Pittsburgh boy, we've got the penguins here. Pittsburgh is a relatively small market as far as hockey markets go. We were blessed to have Sidney Crosby, Evgeny Malkin, and Chris Letang spend their entire careers in Pittsburgh. That would not have been happy, it happened happened in Pittsburgh. Like one of the things, one of the reasons why we always hear the Paul Skeens trade talk is that knowing that he's not going to sign an extension, and there is a clock on how long he is going to be in Pittsburgh. And even if they do sign Connor Griffin to an extension, and like I said, only extend that clock, you know, another year and a half, two and a half years, whatever it ends up being, it does kind of set a line of like this is a face of the franchise. Every team wants to have those stars, those marketable people, those people that they can build a clubhouse around. And that I think is a big point that the owners want to have for advocating for a cap. Like it wouldn't have happened with the Pittsburgh Penguins without a cap. Players could argue, like, you know, like, well, there are ways to keep players here for a long time. There is no question who the face of the Kansas City Royals are is gonna be for the next decade. It is Bobby Witt Jr. And they met because the player was willing to meet the team and they were able to come to a compromise right there. So we're going to see, I guess, what it comes down to. Like, I think that you know, having that face, being able to retain stars is going to be something that owners are going to argue in in favor of keeping a cap, but there are a lot of ways to do that, and maybe this is an avenue for teams to do that. I wrote Connor Griffin's gonna be the most important player in the pirates organization as soon as he signs that extension.

SPEAKER_01 52:11

Yeah, and the one point I'll make too is like I am never gonna knock a 21, 22, no, 23-year-old for being offered what amounts to generational wealth. Like, this is like life-changing money. Like, if someone like, especially if you're just played three, like five in the case of Cooper Pratt, like five games in triple A, and someone's like, here's$50 million. I I'm never gonna get on a player for turning down that type of money. Like, yeah, but like you could do the potential, like, is there risk on their end in the sense that they outperform their value and they end up getting underpaid? Like, yeah, we've seen this in a obviously different set of circumstances, but we saw this with Ozzy Albys and Ronald Acuna Jr. And even if you want to take like a Giants example, like Madison Baumgarner, like there are examples of players, you know, signing these types of deals and end up being underpaid. Like, that's the reality. Like, it's a business. Like, we talk about surplus value. Um, but again, at the end of the day, like I'm not gonna get on Cooper Pratt, I'm not gonna get on Colt Emerson for saying like this is the type of deal that I want to take. Because again, it is life-changing money, and if they end up not performing, they have that in the bank. If they end up do performing and you know, they don't get what their value amounts to, there's always an opportunity to make it up later. Like, but you know, squeezing like potential maximum value, you know, I really I think that did play a factor in both of these deals. I think they did have to think about it, but again, I'm not gonna say like Cooper Pratt, why are you signing this deal? You could have made so much more eight years from now. It's like Kyle Shanahan.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

Or he could have made nothing.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

He could have made nothing. It's like what Kyle Shanahan said. Like, I can't guarantee who's gonna be on the roster tomorrow because I can't guarantee we're gonna be alive tomorrow. Very different example.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

That's a healthy dose of nihilism after I talked.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

Penguins best case scenario. Hey man, state of the world, you need a little bit of nihilism. It's only appropriate to have a little bit of it in the bank. Anyway, Alex, where can we find your work?

SPEAKER_00 54:14

You can find me at AlexJ Stumpf on Twitter, and I've got a podcast with North Shore 9 called Off Beat and a newsletter on Substack called Book Rule Bucks.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Both are free right now. You you and your damn book rule. I want to one last point for the for the listeners. If you made it this far, you get you get a fun little tidbit. Me and Alex have had a cold war for the last like six years about book rule versus ground rule double. Yes, I understand that it's technically book rule. I'm not calling it I I see just disregard all of this. I'm not calling it book rule.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

It's a ground rule double. Look, if you want to be wrong, that's your prerogative, but I I don't want to give bad information.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

You can you you and your this generation and their numbers and their rules, taking it verbatim, but anyway. I'm older than you. Spiritually? That's the question.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Spiritually, yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

But Alex, this was a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to doing this over the course of the season. I'm sure we'll have a lot more amusings around Major League Baseball to talk about over the next couple weeks and months. Justice Delos Santos, Alex J. Stump, splash considerations. Catch y'all later.