Splash Considerations Ep. 8: That's the Good Stuff+

CINCINNATI — Following the Giants' series loss to the Baltimore Orioles, Justice talks with Thomas Nestico (a.k.a. TJStats) about the three relievers in the Giants' bullpen that he likes, as well as the MiLB pitcher that he believes can have a breakout season. Then, Justice is joined by C. Trent Rosecrans, the Cincinnati Reds beat reporter for The Athletic to discuss the Giants' upcoming series against the Reds ... among other things.

Time Stamps

Recapping the Giants' series against the Orioles (2:35)

Conversation with Thomas Nestico (8:05)

Caleb Kilian (14:00) 

What's a pitch "shape"? (17:35)

Keaton Winn (22:30)

Thomas' Favorite Individual Pitches (27:15)

Erik Miller (30:30)

Carson Whisenhunt (36:15)

Conversation with C. Trent Rosecrans (43:00)

Sal Stewart is ... Good! (51:00)

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Welcome to another episode of Splash Considerations. My name is Justice Delosanto, San Francisco Giants B reporter for the Bay Area News Group, San Jose Mercury News, East Bay Times, whatever you want to call us, as long as you read, as long as you subscribe. And we're going to be having two guests on for this episode. The first guest is going to be Thomas Nestico, otherwise known as TJ Stats. And if you've perused baseball Twitter, if you've perused baseball blue sky, if you've scrolled long enough and if you've been following the right people, and if your algorithm is aligned in just the right way, you've probably seen Thomas' stuff in some way, shape, or form. He is, in my opinion, one of the most valuable members of baseball Twitter, baseball blue sky that you can follow just because there's just a lot of great information to be parsed out, just on a day-to-day basis. And in addition to the stuff that he has on social media, has a website as well that, as I mentioned in my conversation with him, I use it pretty much every day in some capacity. I've actually had a member of the Giants front office uh when I had a question about a specific prospect. Uh, that member of the front office actually sent me uh the link to his website. So it's just a lot of great information, specifically on the pitching side, but there's a lot of great stuff on the hitting side as well. And our conversation centered around three members of the Giants bullpen who he found particularly fascinating, those three being Caleb Killian, Keaton Wynne, and Eric Miller. We also had a conversation about left-tanner Carson Wizenhunt, who was one of Thomas's kind of breakout picks for the 2026 season. Wizenhunt obviously isn't with the Major League team right now, but we're probably going to see him at some point this season in some capacity. And then the second guest that we have for today's episode is going to be C. Trent Rosecrans. He is the Cincinnati Reds beat reporter for the Athletic. We're going to be previewing their upcoming series against the Giants, which begins on Tuesday. As you can tell, I am currently not in Cincinnati. I'm going to be in Cincinnati starting, uh, not starting. I'm going to be flying out on Monday. I don't know why I said it uh like that. I have a 6 a.m. flight tomorrow. I have no idea uh why I scheduled it for that early in the day. Uh it does get me there about 4 p.m. So I guess I have my evening, but I don't know if I'd rather have an evening in Cincinnati or a couple more hours of sleep in my own bed. Uh, but regardless, that's the decision I made. I'm not paying an extra$500 to change uh my flight. But uh before getting into those two guests, wanted to quickly run through the Giants three-game series uh in Baltimore. They win the first game, they drop the latter two games, and just gonna, again, quickly run through these before getting into the conversations that I had with Thomas and Trent. Uh, the first game, the Giants win six to three, and it was kind of a continuation of what they had done over the course of the latter two games of their series against the Phillies, which was the offense was just looking really strong. They scored, I want to say, six runs on Tuesday. They score five runs on Wednesday, and then they score again six more runs here on Friday. Willie Damas hit his second home run of the season, a backside home run that Casey Schmidt said kind of made him look like a young Manny Ramirez on the Apple TV broadcast. Uh Jung Hu Lee hit his first home run of the season. And then Schmidt himself went three for five, all three hits being doubles, scored two runs. And it's, you know, as far as the early going of this season, it's kind of clear that, you know, that lower back issue that he has, or he had rather hasn't really inhibited his ability at the plate thus far. I know that Schmidt started the season uh for three, well, not 0 for 3. He went hitless in his first three games, but the bat for him in particular uh has really started to come alive, and I'll get more into him just a little bit later. And then I also wanted to highlight Landon Ruop as well. Six innings, one earn run, four strikeouts. Did have that rough outing against the Mets in his second start of the year, kind of due in part to some shaky defense. I can't remember exactly how that game functioned. Uh, but he does through three starts, he does have a 3-2-4 ERA and is definitely just as far as looking, he's definitely looked as one of the best starters uh along with Robbie Ray to start the early season. Uh the latter two games of the season, obviously, as I mentioned, don't go the Giants' way. They drop both of these games six to two. And Saturday's game was frustrating for a couple of different reasons on the Giants' end. For one, they go two for 14 with runners in scoring position. Elliot Ramos was responsible for both of the runs that the Giants uh manufactured on Saturday. He had both of the RBIs, which is a very welcome sign for him given some of the offensive struggles that he had. Shana and I uh made reference to those in the last podcast that we did. But again, they go two for 14 with runners in scoring position. Logan Webb allows four earned runs uh over six innings, has three walks. But uh kind of the most concerning element of Saturday's game was that Luis Arries had to leave after getting kicked in the hand by Dylan Beavers. And when you watch the play, it wasn't anything malicious, but it was one of those grounders where Beavers is on first base, there's a very slowly hit ball in the direction of Arrias. Aries is obviously in his right to charge that ball. Beavers tries to get out of the way, and by tries to get out of the way, I mean he kind of hurdles, and when he hurdles, inadvertently kicks Arries' hand. Aries is in pain, he has to leave the game. Uh manager Tony Vitel told reporters in Baltimore that Arrias is kind of day-to-day right now. I think if he really needed to play on Sunday, he could have, but it's one of those situations where no real reason to push him. And considering that the Giants have uh the off day in Baltimore, not Baltimore, they have the off day on Monday in Cincinnati. Uh, you can kind of turn this into a double off day of sorts where he has the off day on Sunday, off day on Monday, and then you'll see if he's ready to go on Tuesday for the beginning of that three-game set uh against the Reds. Final game of the series, again, the Giants lose this one as well. 6-2. Adrian Hauser uh allows four runs over four and two-thirds innings. Uh, whereas the Giants had, you know, a lot of opportunities on Saturday. Like I mentioned, they went two for 14 with runners in scoring position. Just wasn't a ton of opportunities today. They go one for four with runners in scoring position, but the one highlight, or rather two highlights from this game, one being Casey Schmidt, he goes three for four again. And entering this series against Cincinnati, he has a 368 batting average and an OPS over a thousand. And another member of this Giants team that has an OPS over a thousand is Daniel Susak, who went one for three, had an RBI single. His these numbers are not gonna hold, but they are just very funny to kind of look at right now. 636 batting average, uh almost a 1500 OPS. Again, those numbers aren't gonna hold, but all three games that he's made starts, he's made some type of offensive impact. And again, Shana and I talked about this in the last episode, where I personally wouldn't be shocked if we start to see him more and more against left-handed pitching. If you can get him against left-handed pitching, if he's gonna continue hitting left-handed pitching this well, uh, all the better. Uh, but that's pretty much the quick and brief summary of the Giants' three-game set in Baltimore. Again, they dropped two of three. That is the first third, the first leg of this nine-game road trip they're currently on. The second leg is going to be in Cincinnati, and then the third and final leg is going to be against the Washington Nationals in the nations capital. So now that we've kind of gotten that out the way, let's go to my conversation with Thomas, and then on the back end of this episode will be my conversation with Mr. Rose Grantz. I'm now joined by one of the most prominent members, at least in my opinion, of baseball Twitter, someone who I've been following for a while, someone whose website that I use quite often. And honestly, if you're a fan of the game, you should be using too, and that is Thomas Nesko. Thomas, how are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

I'm doing well. Thanks for having me here. I'm excited uh to chat some Giants uh pitching. I know the hitting hasn't been too hot, but the pitching, there's some definitely some nice little nuggets I want to kind of dive into.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Yeah, hitting picked up a little bit at the tail end of that Philly series, uh, as well as that first game in Baltimore, but it's definitely been the pitching uh that's been kind of the most interesting subject through the first 14, 15 games, whatever we are so far. And I I mentioned this before we started recording. I want to say it was either 24 or 25 when I started following your work, became a really quick fan of the work you were doing. But I also, from my understanding, this isn't like your full-time thing. And I was trying to like you know, dig in. The journalist in me was trying to, you know, give you a little backstory. Just I'm kind of curious, like, what is your kind of origin stories?

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Yeah, so I'm from Toronto, so I've been a Blue Jays fan my whole life. I've actually started uh TJ Stats as more of a hockey, um, fantasy hockey there. I was definitely interested in that. I played hockey growing up, um, but with I guess my love of math and science, I'm an engineer um by trade, I'm a structural engineer. Um, currently work as one um in Toronto. I've just been really kind of enamored with um data and math and science, and then again mixing in my love of sports, and that's kind of how I grew and started TJ Stats. And then I'd say around 2019 is when it started to kind of when I started to actually put a lot more effort into it, and then COVID hit, and then I had a bit more time to kind of uh keen in on things, focus on stuff, and then once I started working through and like learning about the kind of vast um amount of baseball data we have, I kind of just went full throttle with that. And um now I'm here, I have my own website, I have um a pretty, I would say a pretty strong following on Twitter. I know I have um people are like like you're like you're one of them, people reach out to me, ask me to jump on their show, they enjoy my work. I have people I have friends that um like back in high school that I haven't talked with in quite a while, they've messaged me. It's it's really awesome to just um see people kind of share that same enjoyment of the sport that I love and see that I'm making uh positive impact in their experience.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Yeah, as far as you know, you mentioned that we've gone back and forth a little bit, that I'm I'm I'm obviously one of the followers that you have, and I think it hasn't been more than two days at a time that have gone by without me using your website in some way, shape, or form, and like the way that you've really like made it into something that's really accessible. Again, I'm just I'm a pure fan of your work, so this is really cool for me. Um, I do want to, before getting into the pitchers, I do have a fun question for you. And this one is courtesy of fellow Giants beat reporter Alex Palovich of NBC Sports Bay Area. There's a couple times there was a couple times in spring training where I'm not gonna say specific Giants pitchers, but a Giants pitcher would have like a not great outing. Like the the it'd be kind of spraying it all over the place, there'd be a couple earned runs, but then people would like in his comments like post like your uh the daily logs and say, like, hey, he actually pitched well. And it's kind of like, yeah, the stuff was well, but you know, he wasn't locating it all. So I'm I'm I'm curious from your perspective, like when people kind of use it in that, you know, like just purely based off the stuff and not in the context of the game. Like, what is your kind of opinion on that?

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Yeah, I I guess there's some onuses on me to help explain it. I've been trying to do that, I guess, through my work. That again, you need to know a lot of information. You can't just boil it down all into one number. Uh, I mentioned that to people, even with my stuff plus model. Um, it's definitely a good gauge to see kind of the upside, the nastiness, even like the ceiling of specific pitch, but then you have to take into consideration just the context of the game and like are they locating the ball? These guys are human. Like, are they tiring out and you're like the third, fourth inning, and they're after they're blowing by batteries in the first? And it's like, again, I can't really control that. I try and mitigate it and kind of manage it in a way that I to frame it as such, like to always include proper context, um, and to also just let people know, like, you can't boil it down to just one number. Um, but again, it's just to take into consideration and with spring training specifically, um, I think it's important to kind of just maybe take a bit more emphasis on their stuff because again, pitchers are working through things. We see pitchers just have absolutely atrocious games in spring training, but again, they're tinkering with tinkering with things, and once the regular season rolls up uh rolls up, and then they're still again struggling with their command, having these blow-up outings. Again, you don't really want that, they probably won't be lasting too long, at least in their specific role. Um, but again, I always preach that context is key. Um, even again, the numbers that I share, the data I have, even just whatever showed by baseball um at baseball savant, and MLB there, there's it's just metrics to kind of influence your analysis. Again, I don't you can't take one number, um, again, yeah, dive a bit deeper and kind of look at the heat maps, look at again, look at all the other um varying factors involved um in a baseball game because again, there is too many to count.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Context is king and there's it's funny because there's that one Jay-Z line where it's like men lie, women lie, numbers don't, but you can also lie with statistics. You can also manipulate a little bit with statistics. So you heard from the man himself, use the proper context. Don't just post the, don't, don't post the girl the uh the daily with a guy who's like allowed six runs and retired one batter. But I want to transition now to some of the guys that you find interesting uh on this Giants pitching staff. We're gonna isolate to the bullpen. And there were three guys that you threw my way that you wanted to really dive in on it. And the guy I want to start with is Caleb Killian because he's probably the guy that Giants fans are probably most unfamiliar with, although he has you know some ties to the Giants. He was actually drafted by the Giants. He was part of the Chris Bryant trade, uh, was not throwing as hard as he was when he was traded, but this is his first year as a full-time reliever. He's currently allowed one run over six innings with nine strikeouts to three walks. He actually we mentioned this in the last podcast uh with Shana Rubin, how he was put into that game against the Phillies where he had to face the top of their order, walks Trey Turner, and then kind of walks down Bryce Harper and Kyle Schwarber, a pair of lefties. You know, the stuff has obviously looked fantastic in spring training. It's continued to look fantastic in the regular season. What about Killian has really jumped out to you over the course of spring training as well as the start of this season?

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Yeah, Killian's a fun name because again, he was part of that Chris Bryan trade and he really didn't amount to much um in the Cubs organization. And then they signed him to minor league, I think it was a minor league free agent deal um this um this winter. And again, he's made the team that that's already pretty much a big win. Like getting a minor league free agent and him looking strong in spring training, and then also again, a little inconsistency to start the year, but as you can expect, he's basically a rookie. I'm not sure if he could still qualify as one. Um, but from what I'm seeing with Killian, his velocity is up, definitely an excellent uh talking point there. He's uh sitting at 97 miles an hour now. Uh and just the shape of his fastball is great too. Again, he has still has that very similar release, just pretty prototypical 45 degree slot. Again, nothing too special, but he's getting generating more ride on the pitch while also having a bit more um a bit more cutting action. So again, those cut ride fastballs, um, we see them be used, and the Cubs really did do like them. So pictures like Cade Horton and Justin Steele, they have um those. So maybe you learn them uh from the Cubs there, but now he's cutting the ball a bit more, which should help um again with mitigating damage. Again, he's his fastball has been a very strong pitch for him this season, and he's supplementing that with this pretty nasty knuckle curve. Um again, has a steep two-plane action. It's just overall, um, just a big jumps in the kind of just his stuff overall, and he also has his new slider or like an adjusted slider from um from his time with Chicago. So, again, adding all those pieces in, no surprise that he was really good in spring training, that he's off to a pretty hard start with at least his strikeouts right now. They cannot hit his curveball or his slider. I'm really interested to see what he does because he was a name that I kind of wrote off because I know he was kind of the piece in that Chris Bryant deal. Um, and I guess overall that trade didn't really do much for the Cubs there. Um, but now he's back with the Giants, and at least from I guess the surface level here, he's looking a bit not diving too much in his location or his command, just having this small sample. He looks much better than he did the last season, and he's already rocking up strikeouts um as one of the strong, I think probably the highest in the on the Giants team right now.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Yeah, as far as the the trade, I think it's fair to say that with Caleb Killian back on the Giants, it's fair to say that the Giants in the long run did win uh the Chris Bryan trade. But one of the words that you mentioned right there is shape. And I think this is actually a very good before transitioning into other believers, I think this is a good learning opportunity for some of the listeners because you know that concept of pitch shape, it's not necessarily anything that's new. It's I'm sure if you went back 10, 20, 30, 50 years, like you'll probably hear something to that of that vernacular. But like when you say shape, like what are like what is for the for the layman, like what are kind of the what what goes into that when you say like he has a better fastball shape or even just shapes in general?

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Yeah, so I like to use the word shape just more as like uh another term for characteristics of their pitch. So that takes into just especially the physical characteristics of the pitch. So how the ball moves in the air, like what we're seeing on TV. Again, you can't really look too much. We can't really see the spin rate because they ball spin way too fast, but that is one component of it. But looking at the shape, I like to look at velocity, um, the vertical movement, and the horizontal movement. Those three are definitely kind of the core and the ones that you can actually physically see um when you're watching a game. So velocity, again, that's pretty easy to understand, just how fast the pitch is moving. And then there's two types of um movement or break. Um there's vertical break and there's horizontal brake. So horizontal break, essentially how much this pitch moves um due to spin in kind of the horizontal axis there. So you see sliders, they typically go to glove side movement, and then fastballs, they have that kind of arm side movement same with change ups and whatnot. And then there's a vertical movement or um specifically induced vertical break. That is kind of the ability, um, the movement of a pitch independent of gravity in the I guess the vertical plane. So that's how much a pitch kind of moves due to spin alone. So how much what the pitcher is doing to manipulate this ball to make it move um vertically. So again, top spin and backspin, those are I guess the most common terms you would hear there. Um so fastballs, they have a ton of backspin. So when you're throwing your fastball, kind of you're ripping the the top of the ball basically, and that causes it to have a ton of backspin, and that's how it kind of defies gravity, like it drops less than what gravity would think, think of like a beach ball. Um, when you kind of grab a beach ball, like a very big ball, very light ball, and you kind of rip it from the top, it might actually just float up because due to how light it is. So if you've ever been like in a pool or anything and you just kind of did that to a baseball uh beach ball, it kind of float up, and then top spin, the opposite of backspin, they're able to um that's that's when you have like your curved ball, that adds kind of additional drop to the pitch. So bringing it down, we have horizontal movement and then induced vertical break. So that's kind of the shape of the pitch, kind of how it moves um in the air while you're watching the pitch. So again, the three main components are velocity, horizontal break, and then induced vertical break. Um, you can also add in factors like spin rate, the spin axis. Again, spin axis is um going to dictate kind of that movement of the pitch. Um, like again, fastballs, they have those, they're over the top on the pitch, so it generates a bunch of um back spin of the ball uh induces that ride, and then you have sliders, um typically bullet sliders. So those are the pitches that if you look at like a pitch plot, they'll be at the middle, zero, zero. Those have gyro spin. So think of a football or a bullet, they're spinning along the axis of motion. Um so that kind of stabilizes the pitch as well. So it doesn't really move, it only really moves due to gravity. And those pitches um we see like the pitchers like Jacob de Grom or Spencer Schreider, they throw them, those are like the most prototypical bullet sliders in the league. And then all that you can take those components, um, compare it, add it, like arm angle, release, and then you can create a model, like a stuff plus model, if you've heard um heard of that, and then kind of understand how pitches um once you kind of understand those components, you can understand kind of the interaction between them. Again, if you're over the top on the pitch, you can generate all that um that induced vertical break with that backspin of it. Um, but again, if you have a kind of a lower arm slot, um, think of like Lowigan Webb, he can't generate that same ride on the pitch, but he has a lot uh kind of wider um arsenal that goes east to west um compared to north to south. Someone like Killian is a north south pitcher because again he has that high riding fastball and a kind of steep um curveball.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Yeah, one example for maybe Giants fans that want to you mentioned Logan Webb right there, but to kind of provide a contrast between like that east west and that north south. Like think of Justin Rower Landard, for example. Like, he's been a guy historically that just gets a ton. You know, you use the term induced vertical break. I think a more familiar term would be just ride, like getting a lot of ride on that fastball. So when you talk about like 18, 19, 20 inches of induced vertical break, that means he's just getting a lot of ride on that fastball. He's just able to elevate at the top of the zone. Whereas Logan Webb, as you mentioned, if you just watch Logan Webb pitch, it's a lot of stuff moving east, it's a lot of stuff moving west. And as far as one of the guys on this roster that's getting a little more ride, a little more induced vertical break on his fastball, that would be one Keaton win. We're going to transition to another 28-year-old right-hander. And kind of similar to Killian, this is his first year as truly a nothing else. You're only going to be a reliever. There was a little bit of starting last year, kind of in that in-between, but now he is truly a nothing but a reliever. And similar to Killian, the stuff has definitely ticked up a little bit. He's uh allowed three runs through six and a third innings. Most of that came on Eastern Easter Sunday. There was a bit of a rough outing uh when he was called in to protect a lead. But 7K is the two walks. A little more vert, a little more VLO on the fastball. The splitter, it's it's even nastier than it already was. Like it was already a pretty nasty pitch. I talked with him about that. He they did a little bit with the hand positioning. He had an opportunity to work out with actually Mitch Keller uh in the offseason. Keller has his own little facility out there. But what are some of the things that you've been liking about what Wynne has been doing specifically?

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Yeah, so Keaton Wynne, as a prospect, was always kind of lauded for that splitter. Um, it's been kind of his pitch, his bread and butter. Um, last season, again, he had dealt with some injuries, so he didn't pitch too much. But this year, that splitter is back, and it might be the best splitter, it might be even the best pitch in baseball, just from that stuff perspective. Um, again, from uh like the his best splitters last year are kind of the same thing as his best splitters this year, but he's just been way more consistent in replicating that shape. So, if again, if you look at the movement plot for him, um last season he had a was pretty inconsistent, like it was just a very wide spread of pitches for his with the movement on a splitter. Again, splitters they tend to be a bit more erratic than other pitches. They have the low spin rates, so again, they kind of move in the air, they are also hard to replicate when you throw them. But this year, he's just doing an excellent job at again being consistent with its shape, and it's just dominating batters, it has over 50% with rate, batters are chasing it, no problem. Like it is one of the best pitches in the league, probably might be the best pitch um with the in the Giants. Again, you would love to see him start, but he's probably gonna be a leader long term. But again, throwing a splitter 60% of the time, um, and batters just can't really do anything on it, and it's not like he's just allowing walks through and through, like he's able to command this pitch well, and he supplements that with kind of that fastball. You've mentioned that that's you know, bit of an uptick as well, up in velocity, a bit more of that ride um that we talked about before, and then he has that sinker to kind of uh attack right-handed hitters with. So, again, that's splitter. Um, again, typically you don't use it too much against same-handed matchups, um, just because of how it kind of moves into batters as they uh moves into their swing plane. But I think his splitter is just just a different beast. Um, it is like again, other than that, that one outing that um that just wasn't too hot, he's been he's looked really, really good, and I'd say he's has the potential to be the Giants' most valuable reliever um this season.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

This is this is some high praise, man. Like, I know you liked Wynn, but to like to to say like his splitter is like one of the best like singular pitches and that he might be the most valuable. I think you know, I knew you would like him, but this is some high praise, man.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Yeah, I'm again, it is really in the season. I don't want to uh be too kind of um objective with my takes here, but again, I think his splitter, even if he is I still think he's one of the best arms in the system. I think again he's still kind of new. He's not again, he was injured last year. Hopefully his body can hold up, but all signs point to him having a very strong season. And I think that splitter, um, you like there's not many others in the league like it. And again, we've seen him again. He was uh I know fangrafts that he slapped a 70 grade on it when he was a prospect, and it just seems like it's there now. He's kind of reached that um that level um and the majors with that splitter, and it seems to be holding up and it's producing very well.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

I'm gonna put you on the spot a little bit here. When you think of, because you know, we do the MLB corner here. I like to, you know, broaden the scope of just, you know, this is a Giants podcast, but you like to broaden the scope a little bit. What are some of your favorite pitches? You know, not in the Giants system, just your favorite individual pitches throughout Major League Baseball. Because one of the guys that we saw early on was Nolan McLean, and he threw this just it was an unfair like sweeper to Elliot that like started at Elliott's like right shoulder and then cuts in. We obviously uh saw Camp Schlittler, his forcing fastball looked amazing. Nick Pavetta, he gets a ton of ride on that fastball. We've seen a bunch of obviously face Mason Miller uh as well, who's I think I saw a stat the other day that was like 19 strikeouts to 20 balls like thrown. So they've we've seen seen like a bunch of like really good pitches so far this year. But who are your favorite like individual pitches throughout major league baseball? And even if you want to throw some minor league guys in here, please do as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Yeah, there's the one guy that he actually traded this offseason. Uh Mason Montgomery went from the Rays to the Pirates, arguably has the best fastball in the league. 100 miles an hour from the left side. It's just an incredible ride. Everything about this pitch is absurd. The problem is he cannot command it. And again, also going back um to the Pirates org, um, there's a Reynold Navarro. Um low A, he pitched in the complex league last year, maybe he was in the DSL as well, but now he's in low A. Again, almost the exact same character to say Mason Miller's fastball and doesn't know how to command it even worse. So those two pitches, if you want to take a look at their data, take a look at how they pitch, they're gonna rack up a ton of strikeouts. The issue is will they be able to command it? Located it more again. Mason Montgomery, he should be the Pirates closer if he can just figure out how to throw that pitch for strikes because it is one of the best in the league. You already mentioned Nolan McLean. Again, I was a huge fan of his sweeper when he was a prospect, but then he's kind of morphed that and made it more into that curveball. Like he's developed a curveball that is one of the best pitches in the league. Um, Chris Bubic of um Kansas City Royals, um, he was a reliever or came back from Tommy Johnson. He was a reliever, came back last season. I was hyping up a ton, was excellent before he hit the shelf with um a shoulder shoulder issue. Um, but his fastball is really exciting. Again, has that similar think of like Brian Wu-esque, flat fastball approach right through the zone again from the left side, his velocity was up. And I guess Brian Wu's also a fun comp as well. Um, not many pitchers have that ability to generate a lot of ride from a very low slot, and he just does it to perfection. Um, similar in a vein to to Joe Ryan, but I think Brian Wu has kind of mastered that. Um again, I'm a Blue Chase fan, so Trader Savage's splitter. That pitches uh we saw it a lot in the playoffs last year. Batters just could not have an answer for it. Again, I I can just keep going on about what pitches I love and what pitches uh always enticing, but I think I think I'll have to have to move on to the next topic.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Yeah, I saw this one tweet that was it was a while ago, and it was something to the effect of my girlfriend got mad at me for calling her Brian Woo's mechanics instead of perfect. It was something to the effect, something to the effect of that. But and it's also funny that you mentioned a pair of pirates because obviously I do MLB corner with Alex Stump, Pittsburgh Pirates Reporter. And the the first two that we've done have just like revolved around Connor Griffin. And I said, this is not like a pirates thing, like this is just like this is just so what happens to be like the big story in baseball. And so we're like three consecutive podcasts where the Pittsburgh Pirates have gotten uh a reference here. You mentioned Mason Montgomery, that's a lefty that's throwing hard. So I want to transition to another lefty on the Giants that can get the VLO up a little bit, and that is one Eric Miller. Obviously, Miller kind of similar to Wynn in that, not entirely similar, but in the sense that it was a little banged up last year. He's very well aware of the discrepancy between his ERA and FIP. Like we had a very long conversation uh about that dating back to last year, but he dealt with the left elbow sprain that effectively took him out from July onwards, dealt with a little bit of a back ailment uh in spring training, but there was no doubt that he was gonna make the opening day roster if he was healthy. We talked a lot about or me and him talked a lot about his sinker last year, how he brought that back into his repertoire, might actually get some opportunities to close here. Giants haven't been in a ton of like really one-run, two-run games, but he might get some ninth inning opportunities here going forward. Eric Miller, what do you like about him?

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Yeah, Eric Miller. Um, again, you already mentioned that discrepancy with his fit in the area last year. One and a half ERA, fit um near four.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Um, this year it's kind of like surprisingly wasn't the biggest, second biggest.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

So it's um this year kind of flipped a bit. Now his strikeouts are up a ton. Last year he wasn't striking anyone out, he was actually walking a fair bit of guys. This year he's striking out the world. He has a 30% strikeout rate. Um, again, leaning on that sinker a ton. Like I'm really impressed with how that pitch looks. As you mentioned, he kind of reintroduced it last year, and it's I'd say it's his best pitch. Um, and again, throwing from uh as a lefty, just throwing hard, you're probably gonna be a major league pitcher. Like again, even if your command is a bit not great, it's below average, maybe even well below average, you can still do it. But what Eric Miller um is showing this year again, throw 97 with that sinker, should help neutralize um lefties a lot. Um, and then he has this big kind of moving slide. It's like a weird slide, it has like a two shapes of it. Maybe it's actually more of a curveball now. Um, that'd be maybe an interesting uh question to ask him. It seems like it has um more two action, at least on it on a handful of them. Um, but yeah, and he has a pretty strong changeup as well. So, again, from the left side, just throwing hard is gonna be a positive trade um for any pitcher, and from what there he's supplementing it with just a handful of other secondaries. So Eric Miller off to a hard start this year. Again, can't really take much from his ERA or even his FIP in a foreigning sample. Um, but again, that sinker uh grades out very well in my my model I have here. So it's just uh hopefully he keeps it up and throws it for strikes because last year um just the strikeouts weren't there even after a very strong 2024 year, where again he was striking out a lot of guys and then it kind of just dried up. So maybe he's kind of hit a new gear, found that same magic from 2024. And um again, the whiff rates, the chase rates, just everything about it seems like he's probably gonna be a pretty dependable lefty out of the Giants bullpen.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Yeah, I'm glad that you mentioned the strikeout rate because that was something that I talked to him during spring training about. I can't remember it exactly, like the full quote verbatim. He is a Stanford guy, so he is pretty as much as I am a Cal guy, he is a Stanford guy, so I will give him credit. Like when it comes to these subjects, like he likes to dive into them. Um, but he he acknowledged that the strikeout rate was down. I think he'd said he said it had a bit to do with uh sequencing. I think there was also the element that a sinker is not naturally a strikeout pitch. But you mentioned the strikeout rate in 2024. I think it was something, it was definitely above league average, it was well below league average last year, and even though he was kind of getting the the ER rate to go with it, and this year it's just it's skyrocketed through the roof. And I remember writing that you know, if he can consistently get that strikeout rate to where it is above league average, I wasn't necessarily saying 30%, but if he could get it to you know somewhere above league average, like where you're looking at a legitimate high-leverage guy. And again, there haven't been too many opportunities for these Giants relievers to you know hold on to a one-nothing or a one-run, two-run lead late in games. But I personally wouldn't be surprised if Eric Miller going forward is someone that we see in those eighth or even ninth inning situations, just based off how nasty he is. And we have seen, you know, a couple left-handed relievers that throw hard that can you know really nail it down in the ninth inning.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Yeah, for sure. Again, lefty, lefty closers, they're not too many of them. Uh teams just like the handle with the matchups. Again, typically facing a lot of right-handed batteries. But again, if the opportunity presents itself when there's a lineup with just a bunch of lefties, again, Eric Miller should be there. That sinker should and slider should definitely help neutralize them. Last year, he didn't really throw the sinker that much. So I'm really um intrigued to see him as his primary pitch this year. Um, again, the whiff rates were great last year. Like a 30% whiff rate should at least um translate to an average striker rate. Again, with the striker rate around 17% last year, that's just there's some disconnect with it. Again, could be that the sequencing could be a part of it. And also his 14 fastball, again, I think his sinker is a much better pitch. So hopefully that kind of aids into it. The sinker can help him get ahead early, and then he can wipe guys out with either his changeup or his slider.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

So we talked about three relievers on the major league side, and one that I also want to mention just really quickly is Sam Henches. He actually did start a rehab assignment with Loe San Jose yesterday, and you want to talk about lefties with stuff. If you can get you know Henches and Miller in that bullpen going forward, I think that'd be really fun as this Giants bullpen starts to take shape. But I wanted to mention another lefty, but one who's not uh on the major league roster right now, and that's one Carson Wizenhunt. You had him as one of the guys that you liked going into the 2026 season. We obviously saw a very notable uptick in velocity. He's been working on more of like a I can't remember if he calls it like a power slider or a cutter, but it's a pitch that has like a little more as far as that east-west action. What have you seen in Wizenhunt as arsenal that has really made him that guy that you think he's kind of a it's the the pick to click, so to say?

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Yeah, so what Wizenhunt, if you're not familiar with him, he has arguably the best changeup in the minor leagues. Again, fangraft, they slapped an 80 grade on it. When he comes up, um, he'll he'll rival Kidden Win Splitter. Like those guys will go head to head for the best pitch in them in the Giants. Um I guess in the Giants bullpen or wherever, and the Giants pitching staff. Like it is that strong of a pitch. The downside for that is that his fastball was just not good. Again, throwing 92 miles an hour, just did not have any of those traits that we like to see from a fastball. Again, you want to see again velocity, of course, his key, and then kind of that ride. So those are the two main components you want to see um from your fastball. Um, but the issue with um you know Wisenhunt was he only had that changeup again. His slider and his curveball, they're okay pitches. They're again, they're not too standout, but again, he can just um rip through batters with that changeup, but you can't really be a change-up only pitcher because again, it it relies heavily on sequencing and the count. Again, you're not you don't want to lean on your change-up too much because again, you're just gonna walk a bunch of guys, and that's kind of what we've seen. We wasn't hunt um throughout his pro career. Um, we saw a little taste of him in the majors last year. Um, it just wasn't striking as out. Major league batters know that if his changeup's coming, they're just gonna sit on it, they're not gonna swing, or they're just gonna wait for that fastball to come out because then major again, that gap between triple A and the majors is as big as ever. Um, and it they're just so much better in the major leagues. Um, but now with Wes and Hunt, um, we see the velocity again. Spring training, we saw the velocity up around two ticks, uh, more ride on that pitch. Um, it wasn't again shorter spurts, so you're like, is this real? Is this gonna hold up in the in the regular season? But now again, now he's um starting in triple A and he's at um 94 miles an hour again. Last year he was sitting around 92, this year 94 again, and he's getting a bit more ride on the pitch again, about one to two extra inches. So that pitch went from I would say well below average to even like hovering around average. So if he can maintain that velocity again, um he's a pretty big boy, he's 6'3, 230. So, like I think he has that kind of that that frame to again hold that velocity, uh log a bunch of innings, and then to pair it with that wipeout changeup again. When we see a bunch of lefties uh in the majors, again, you need to succeed essentially, you need to have a pretty good changeup. There's just too many righties, you need an answer for right-handed hitters. Like we see Tariq Scuba, Cole Raggins, even Garrett Crochet, he's starting to introduce um kind of a splitter changeup into his um into his arsenal. So the wasn't hunt with that foundation of that changeup and now the improvement um of his fastball, I'm really liking uh kind of his outlook, maybe more of a number four, five guy instead of kind of that triple A depth um we're seeing. Uh we saw from him again last year, but again, if there once this spot opens up in the Giants rotation, either a trade or an injury or something, um, like he could be the first guy up again. He's on the 40-man roster. Um I don't think there's much to gain from him to keep pitching in the PCL. That is just an absolute disaster for pitchers to be in. Um, but again, I'm excited to see what he does. The velocity uptake is definitely the biggest thing to take away from it because that was the biggest piece um I guess missing from his profile.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Yeah, I remember during spring training, during one of the first live bullpen that had the track man data on the scoreboard, you know, his first inning, it was like 97, 98, and we were all like, Excuse me? Like we like I think I can't remember if it was Zach Manassian or Randy Wynn. I think it was Manassian. Like I walked up to him and I was like, Is is the is the gun hot? Here he's like, no, that's that's it. And when he's obviously not gonna sit 97, 98, but if it is more of that 94, 95, it really just elevates what he can be as a starter.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Yeah, for sure. Just having that those extra ticks again. When you think of it 92 to 94, may not seem it's only two miles an hour, how big of a difference it it matters all that much because then it plays into the rest of his arsenal there. Now he has again this 94 mile an hour fastball that batters actually need to respect now. Like last year, they just they didn't they didn't care. Like if they see the fastball coming, they're just gonna hit it. Like it's again not a great pitch, but basically all the characteristics of it have pushed it from um, I guess, easily his worst pitch to kind of on par with that slider and curveball. Um again, that changeup is still kind of that crown jewel of his arsenal and should at least make him or um a decent major leaguer, even if it's just as a bullpen as like a lefty specialist. Um, but he's definitely risen his floor, um, and he looks to be kind of the part of at least the back end starter. Hopefully, we see him more this year. Um, because again, everything about this, these improvements, this development is very exciting.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Yeah, I'm sure we'll see him at some point this season. Obviously, you can't get through an entire season with just uh five guys in rotation. Obviously, Blade Tidwell is currently up with the major league roster as well. I think Trevor McDonald will be in that mix. And who knows, maybe we'll see him make a start against the Toronto Blue Jays when your Toronto Blue Jays come to town in a little bit, and maybe we'll have it, we'll shoot a couple DMs back and forth uh when that outing happens, if it does happen. But Thomas, this was a lot of fun. Uh, I'm hoping we can do this a lot more over the course of the season. And maybe, you know, if there's a new arm in the mix, maybe with Jason Foley and Sam Henches get here. And who well, who knows who else might also be in this pitching staff in the second half? But this is a lot of fun, Thomas. Where can we find your work?

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Yeah, thanks for having me. Uh, if you want to find my work, um, tjstats.ca, I have that Canadian domain. Um, that's where you'll find all my articles, um, all my player pages, basically all the tools I I use on a daily basis that kind of influence my analysis. And I share again on Twitter at TJ Stats or Blue Sky again at TJstats.ca. Uh, that's where you'll find me all there. Again, I'm very excited, very happy that you invited me on. Uh, we've been chatting for quite a bit, and I was looking forward to um again hopping on today and chatting some Giants baseball.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

This is really fun to talk Giants baseball. Give him a follow, subscribe to the newsletter, support him if you can. Thomas, this was a lot of fun. I'll catch you down the road.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Yeah, thanks for having me. Go Giants.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

I'm now joined by the Cincinnati Reds B reporter for the Athletic, and to borrow a bit of an interpolation from MF Doom. Don't forget to see when you say the man's name. C Trent Rosecrans, what's happening, man?

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Oh, Justice, you uh you always, yeah, you're the best. Um, no, I appreciate it, man. I just uh got back from oh a scintillating um Reds uh Angels series. We had 47 walks, I believe, over the 47. Three games. Three games, three games, 47 walks. Uh the Reds scored four runs on three wild pitches, two on two yesterday and two on one today. Uh it I I coach uh high school baseball, Cincinnati Public Schools. Um Our game was cleaner than either of these last two games, and I never thought I would say that in the history of baseball.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Here's my question for you. Okay. Did I in any game that you've coached, has any player been playing in the middle of appealing a suspension for fighting another grown man with a baseball in his hand? Has that happened? Well, especially considering the grown man part, I'd hope not.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

No, but I was holding one of our players back yesterday morning from another player and the umpire, and my guy Ruben's strong. It took two of us to hold Ruben back. And uh and then I probably I haven't been tossed yet, and I can think of at least five games where I should have been tossed. Um but not Saturday's game. Saturday's I was I was good cop Saturday.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

I'm usually a little bit of a little bit of hold me back, always good in a high school baseball game.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Well, it this wasn't like having to hold back Yassiel Puig, where you'll see like the smallest guy on the field holding him back, even though he could run through anybody. This was I'm grown-ass man, and another one of our guys, our our captain or senior, holding back this guy and having a trouble with it. And then two years ago, one of our other coaches who was a college catcher was holding me back and was like, turn's a lot stronger than I thought.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

It's funny that you meant we talk about kind of the the brawl element because in the in the last episode uh with Alex Snump for MLB corner, we were talking about the Amir Garrett uh versus the world fight. And we also have Tommy Fam and the Giants also a little bit before my time, but not televised in the same way that other fights are, but that is in its it's it's its own little like subcategory. Maybe when the the Reds play the Giants again, we come back to this and discuss just all-time all-time fights. Again, don't condone fighting, don't do it, kids. It's not good. Probably gonna get you in trouble. But I think the baseball purest, well, as long as nobody gets seriously hurt.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Well, here's my thing: there are guys who get held back. You're we were just talking about this. Guys who can get held back. Um, you know, Puig, Javier Baez really like to get hold held back, um, talk a lot and get held back. Nobody's handed, nobody's holding Amir Garrett back. Uh-uh. Amir Garrett, Tommy fam, two real ones. Two of the realest ones there are. Um, you you've have you been around Tommy at all?

SPEAKER_02 46:42

I haven't.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

I have not. Oh, you need to. I want I want the Justice Tommy Fam podcast. Trust me, hey, it would be.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

I will say, I will say next month. I'm surprised I haven't even mentioned this at any point in the podcast. Next month is AAPI month, Asian American, Pacific Islander History Month. Tommy Fam. And he's the only Vietnamese player in that we know of that we know of. That's a very big key distinction here. So let's see what we've got to do.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

The Reds have been able to make this system and the Reds, my co-host on Riverfront Territory, Danny Graves, the only player born in Vietnam. What a pull to play in the big, and then they have oh shoot, I'm blanking on the kid's name, but they took him out of uh Arizona State. He's an outfielder. Um, I talked to him a little bit because I I hooked him up with Danny's number so he could get together, but he is of Vietnamese descent, like first generation, I think he is. So there we go. For those who don't know, we I graduated high school in Japan, so I have interest in a lot of Asian culture. Um, also on Navy bases, and I mean, okay, yeah, you're I don't have to like in Cincinnati, I have to expound what I'm saying when I say like I grew up in the Navy, so that means I have like an and uh and I was on a base uh senior year, so I ate like senior week, a week of graduation, I ate the best I've ever eaten in my life because all my friends' families, well, they're all one big Filipino family, like you know what it's like, and oh my god, how I ate that week, it will never be topped.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

I'm not gonna lie, I think this might be the only podcast in like, even if including like the post-game videos dating back to last year, that somebody other than me has brought up the Philippines of being Filipino before I did. That is a grave injustice on my part. And to provide a little context, I was an Asian American studies major in school as well. I got what do I got here? I got Strangers from a different shore, Ronald Takaki, OG. There's uh what else we got here, anyhow. Um I'm pretty sure the people aren't here, Trent. What are we pulling out? Trent's pulling something out for the for the audio listeners. Couple caps. Let me see what we got here. What do we got? Oh, no shot. You gotta send me that. Oh my I need that's uh that's Norfolk, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:18

The Norfolk Lumpia.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

Oh my god. I might honestly don't. I'm I'm coming to Cincinnati. Don't give me your addresser. You might be missing, you might be missing uh a certain cap uh by the time I don't think it's all said and done.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

This might like fit over that one because I got a big old noggin seven and five eighths here.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

So man, if if I get that, if I get that hat a hold of myself, I'm gonna I will wear it every single day uh of AP I'm uh but obviously we've got a book.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

I gotta I gotta go to the store and get a book for you. Oh, please.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

I got as you can tell by the by the background. This is just the stack, the shelf is right here. As you can tell, I I am more than happy. Um, I think we should start getting into some Reds baseball. Baseball we've kind of I think the intro has has gone uh long enough. The one thing, one one quick aside. This isn't even an aside, actually. This is a very important when flying into Cincinnati. Uh, is it gonna rain? Should I be concerned? Should I be concerned about missing my flight on Thursday? Or maybe we got a doubleheader? Shrugging the shoulders.

unknown 50:25

Oh, you never know. You never know.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

You really did. Okay, let's let's talk about something we do know. Something that we do know is that Sal Stewart. He can hit he's been he can hit. He's been off to a great start, obviously made his major league debut uh last year. Uh he's been setting the world on fire. He was NL player of the week, became the youngest player since 1900 to reach three bases or th reach base three times in each of or in three of his four games. And it kind of just looks like he's taken last year's cup of coffee and just really ran with it.

SPEAKER_01 50:57

Yeah, I mean, I I I the thing I keep going back to was two years ago. Um, Salah Stewart is not uh I mean he's he's not at old. This was his first like introduction to big league camp. You know, he was he was drafted in um 2022, so this would have been 24. Um and he gets uh you know he he comes to camp and he gets cut. We all knew he was not going to make this team in 2024. Um, everybody knew that, even though you know Joey Vado was gone, um, and really like he was still third baseman, so they were kind of doing those things. But he was he was upset and mad when he got cut. You know, first round pick, 20 years old, hasn't played above A-ball and thought he should make the team last year, same exact thing. No at-bats. Actually, I still I don't even know if he had at-bats above a ball last year coming into last spring. He hit, hit, hit, and thought he should have made the team. And I just remember after when Terry Frank we asked Tito, we asked Terry Francana about Stuart and what he liked. He goes, Man, I don't know when, but he's gonna be a big good big league hitter. And he's immediately a good big league hitter. I mean, he has more postseason RBI than Joey Votto. Really? Yeah, I mean yeah, Joey like didn't have that many games. He was also hurt in 20 um 12. So he had turned into uh that was the year that his his knee um he missed a lot of games with his knee, so he just turned into a guy who wouldn't make outs and had like upon his return, I think it was in the second half, he had like a 500 on base percentage or right around there, um, but no power. So he just refused to make outs.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

Um and nothing and nothing happened in the 2012 uh NLDS. His between these two teams, especially, nothing happened at all.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Oh, I I think it's it's it's not just Buster Posey that it I don't even know that it's referred to as the Buster Posey Grand Slam. People forget who hit the Grand Slam, but they remember that Matt Legatos was on the mound. Oh, Giants Hannigan was behind the plate, and Ryan Hannigan. Like, I don't even know that Buster had had let go of the bat before you Hannigan showed everybody that he knew it was gone.

SPEAKER_02 53:38

Just instant, instant. I think we might meet it's one of my favorite gifts. If I can swing it, I might have to send I'm gonna send a text to Grant and be like, hey, do you do what do you remember? Because I'm I'm sure like him in particular would remember it. But yeah, that's kind of crazy that like Vado, like you would assume that even with the Reds having some droughts, that's kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

2000, they they and in his time they in 2010, uh that first year, well, they got no hit by no Roy Halliday. Um, and that was three game sweep or four games, it was a sweep, whatever it was. I believe it was three back then. It was two one, and they just had the one game. And then 2012, it was the first round they won two in San Francisco, uh, then lost three in Cincinnati because that was when uh they'd changed it and they shoehorned everything in. And so to it was either it was to make it where you started on the road, the higher seated team, and then the Reds win two in San Francisco, but that season they had their five starters make 161 starts, and the only one that one of those five guys didn't was a I think it was a double header after a rain out, and then so like they're healthy all season. That pitching staff is just great. I mean, it was it was really good that year, and then their ace gets hurt in the in the first inning. Um what was crazy is that the reds still like shut him out and then in like game one same liqueur came in, and then I think it was Lados, because he came in, and then Bronson Arroyo dominated game two, and then game three. I I know I'm everybody in this knows this, so I don't even know why I'm saying it. But game three, I think that was the best game Homer Bailey has ever pitched. A guy who had two no-hitters, um I think, and one of them against the Giants, of course. Um I can think of two uh another Giants, like was that last year or two years ago? That uh it was two years ago that Blake Snell threw a no-hitter for the Giants at Great American Ballpark. 24 is one year as a giant, and then 2022 was um was uh the Tommy Fam incident. Um, or was that 20? No, it was 22 because we were in the clubhouse. Uh so yeah, uh a lot can happen. Bags never makes the trip. So so like I'm always called in to do extra because bags hates Cincinnati. Oh, I'll save you the suspense. He will not make Cincinnati. Oh, yeah, I know. And then last year he was on sabbatical, and so Grant was there. Yeah, he was there for opening day. It's funny.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

This is I saw Grant in a press box. This is this might this might have been the funniest conversation I've ever had with Grant just because I had been a beat reporter since 2022. Grant had never been a beat reporter, so I I told like I told him, I was like, if you have like any questions about like the beat reporting element, let me know. And I was like, that was such an arrogant thing to say to him.

SPEAKER_01 56:48

Like, I'm pretty sure he could have like I think he would have been fine. Yeah, but you could have just been like, I mean, you you started in the NL Central, you're still one of us spiritually. Thank you. And NL Central, best division in baseball. It is a division in baseball. In my heart. But yeah, we we we have the shortest amount of space. We're the closest physically of any division in baseball.

SPEAKER_02 57:17

Yeah, a lot of easy trips. We veered so far off South Stewart's South Stewart's good. We're gonna we're gonna turn back here. I want this, I'll I'll I'll pose you this question. Um Hey, remember we were gonna do a tight 15 minutes, Justice? It's already at 15 minutes. We are we that that ship has long baseball next. That ship has long sailed. Um, but one of the interesting things with Stewart is that, you know, as you mentioned, he was originally a third baseman coming up. They trade for a third baseman that I covered in Pittsburgh, Cabrian Hayes. Uh yeah, I don't know if you know this defensively. Very good. Slight aside, because we were already taking so many asides here. I've always compared, just hear me out on this. I've always compared Cabrian Hayes, and I kind of bunched Noel, I'm I'll mention just Arenado in this because he's a fellow NL Central. Cabrion. Former, former NL Central. Cabrion is Clay Thompson, and Noel Naranato is Steph Curry in the sense, in the sense, hear me out, in that cabrion is like probably the most fundamentally sound fielder I've ever seen. Like the footwork is the same every single time. Whereas Noel Naranado, and you can even lump like Machado and and Chapman into this, like they will make plays where you're like, you can't teach that. Like sidearm from like the third base batter coach's box. Anyways, so South Stewart came up as a third baseman, third base is occupied. Matt Mac McLain occupies second base, they have him at first base. How has that kind of functioned as far as him learning first base as well as just learning all of Major League pitching? Because it's it's a lot to learn major league pitching, but it's also a lot to learn a position that he basically did not play in the minors.

SPEAKER_01 58:59

Yeah, I mean, I think he played like three games in the minors, and then he's their game two elimination game against the Los Angeles Dodgers, who I'll get him. People won't like want to hear that, and then of course he's also like knocking in runs and shit stuff. Um, so yeah, no, like it is it's been pretty impressive. It's funny because yesterday he started at second, because not only do they have key Brian Hayes at third and Matt McClain at second, they also have A Eugenio Suarez at third. Um that's right, and DH. And he he's a you know what, and I don't say this to knock, and I I I think Gino would wouldn't take offense, but like he's not Key Brian Hayes in the field, he's good though, like he is perfect, like you do not like it's an upgrade from what they have had in the past, um, probably since they had a Eugenio Suarez at third. Um and so, yeah, so like he is an upgrade there defensively, but he's not Key Brian Hayes, and then also Key Brian Hayes is not a Eugenio Suarez at the plate. And also, hey, you know who else is here at first base? In addition to Sal Stewart, Spencer Steer was a gold glove finalist at first base last year. Yeah, Nathaniel Lowe, a former gold glove and silver slugger at first base, is also on this team. Um there's a lot of redundancies. Um, but what happens is you have Spencer Steer there, who's in left field. I think there is there's something I I don't remember the number of, you know, because all these notes we get, but Spencer Steer has and and you don't think of him as having been around that long, but he has like 150 starts both in the infield and the outfield for the for the Reds in his big league career. Um, and and this is I think his what fourth year. Uh, so that's pretty interesting, and and and that's the kind of versatility they love Steers' ability uh at the plate, but also that he he's pretty good in several positions. So, to your point, Sal Stewart was playing second base yesterday, and they're Pat Kelly, the uh triple A manager um in Louisville said he thinks that might be his best offensive position right now. I mean, and and you know, if you only saw Sal Stewart last year, he lost some weight, and like he went from a baby face to like man face in one offseason. Um he's he's the guy who scored from second on the wild pitch today, not L de la Cruz, he was on third, um, and he scored pretty easily on it. Uh uh, but but but Sal Stewart. Sal Stewart has a couple bags. Um, he's a better athlete than you think, and better athlete than what you kind of look at him, and I think part of it might be to kind of go with it, is he looks a little Italian and he has the name Sal Stewart, but he's Cuban. And you know, our our Cuban friends can play some baseball.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:08

They can play some baseball indeed. I would not have thought about that with the or I've thought that with the last name Stuart, but that's Sal Stewart, and look at him.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:15

He looks like first name, yeah. Like in in in previous years, maybe not now, but he would have like they could have put his face on a pizza box. Um I guess Trader Joe's still does that, right? Like Trader Joes has that like like Trader, you know, like hey hey, let's back off.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:35

Um yeah, I had I saw his photo on Fangrass and I heard see the name Sal, and I just automatically assumed that's on me.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:44

And so so the thing with Sal Stewart is like this guy takes professional at bats. This is not a polished young hitter, this is a polished hitter, and a lot of it starts. I had a story last year that that maybe I can link to send you to. This started when he was like in eighth grade, and his dad is uh a well-known basketball coach in Miami, and he wanted Sal Stewart at in eighth grade wanted to train with the best. You know who he started training with? Manny Machado and Yonder Alonso. And so and it's honestly a couple years ago when he was I think it was like his first spring training. I'm on the backfields, um, and one of the Reds minor league instructors, so we're just kind of shooting the breeze, and he goes, All right, Stuart, look at him. Who does he remind you of? Just his stance and his swing and the way he's kind of approaching it. Look at him, I go, he he kind of looks like Manny Machado. And he goes, Yeah, there's a good reason for that. And at the time I knew he had trained with Yonder, I didn't know he had gone because I uh Yonder. Um, I knew Yonder from when he was with the Reds, he was drafted by the Reds, and on draft night I called Yonder because I knew I think he was on an MLB network talking him up. So yeah, no, like this is a kid since eighth grade, and then they were like, You've got to earn it. Like they you talk to everybody around, they treated him like a big leaguer. Um, and he had to he had to act like a big leaguer. And you know, that that is different. Even college guys sometimes it takes some time to get used to big league stuff. Um, you know, I I I've had guys who just didn't even know that like you had to talk before games um to the media and that they would be in the clubhouse in the minor leagues, and these are guys who went to like big-time baseball programs. And Sal Stewart has trained and hit and acted like a professional since he was in high school, like a professional baseball player. Um, and and it shows on the field, he does not look like a rookie. His okay, here's all you need to know. Terry Francona, pretty successful manager, I would say so. Knows a thing or two. A couple things couple things. Since he started this rookie who got called up last September in his everyday lineup, he is fourth between Ellie de la Cruz, you may have heard of, and A. You know Swarez, a guy who had 49 home runs last year. And he put this rookie between those two because he's like, Well, you know, I I I there's a lot of swing and miss between those other two. I wanted the the the like usually what you would say, like that Joey Vato, that professional at bat, not to put a Joey Vato comp on him because like that's not fair to anybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

Oh, that's exactly what you're doing. We're gonna clip that. We're gonna say you're putting a Joey Votto comp on this young man. That's exactly what you said. All right, okay, we can play too at this clip.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Game justice. But yeah, clip wars. Um, but yeah, no, like this is just a professional hitter, and it's it's really fun to watch. It's it's a lot like uh here. I'm gonna go back. Kebrian Hayes and and you'll know this from I knew Kabrian Hayes was a good defender, like just reputation, and you see a guy on the other team, and especially in your division, you see them a lot, so you know they're good, but you can't know a guy is great unless you see him every day. You know, and with Key, like the first two weeks of his stint here, I had like five plays like that I could rattle off in after the first two weeks that not only were plays I hadn't seen being made, but they were game-changing defensive plays at third base. Um, and so I think South Stewart's like the hitting version of that. You know, when you watch him every day, you know, you and I know we know who's gonna give a good at bat, who's gonna like really wear down a pitcher, um, you know, who's just gonna swing at something out of their heels the first pitch, and who's gonna like really work in that bat. And this rookie is doing that, and that's it's pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:23

Well, now I'm excited to for this trip even more, and just seeing just kind of see it, you know, what, 12 times or whatever, it's 15 times, however, it's gonna be over the course of these next three days. Yeah, I think the one obviously my frame of reference isn't as long, but I I think the guy that I've seen consistently take the best at bats on a day-to-day basis is Kutch. Just because like he was obviously.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

I thought you were gonna say O'Neill Cruz.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:47

Not quite. He's he'll I I'll praise him as the most like talented.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:52

I'll see a lot of things with O'Neill Cruz. Man, that guy is a monster. Um, and that's why the signing of Marcelo Zuna really kind of baffled me because they played the same defensive position. Shots taken. Shots, shots taken. I you're not gonna be able to do it. No, I'm not taking a shot at I'm not taking a shot at O'Neill Cruz. I am not a man to take a shot at I'm not that brave. I may be that dumb, but I ain't that brave. I've seen O'Neill Cruz up close and personal. That is a large human being. That is a large human being indeed. He does all of a six foot seven, but I was like, oh okay, side story. We were just the pirates were just here. Um, yeah, this is the track. This is us. Um side story. We're I was having this this debate. If say O'Neil Cruz was born in San Francisco or Houston or Cincinnati, defensive end, right? Number one overall pick. Oh man. Or is he a small forward?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:59

I think he might get pushed to honestly. I could see either of those outcomes. I mean, as athletic and like strong he as he is, like I would like there's a part like there's a part of me that's like like what does this look like if you kind of gave him like basketball specific workouts? Uh-huh. I think it would translate. Well, I would I'll actually I think baseball kind of is his probably best outcome because I I will the reason I say that interesting. I love this. The reason I say that Giants fans are really excited about this conversation. This is this is like minute fifty, this is like past the hour mark at this point. I think if they're if they're still listening, they are just fully on board for whatever the hell's going on. The reason I say that I think baseball is And if you say Justice, I really enjoyed the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:49

You see him in Cincinnati and you say that you will get a donut, I guarantee you. You for sure will. You for sure will.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:55

But the reason I say I think baseball is O'Neal's best sport is because he is fast. He is not quick. I think that's yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that's it takes him a while to get going, and like if he was a DB, like he might get burned a couple times.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:14

Yeah, okay, you you would know better again. That's seeing it all today. Like, because I'm always like, Okay, do you want Ellie de la Cruz to be like just put him on the outside, branding him awesome? He could random everybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:26

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:28

Because Ellie is fast and quick, yeah. Um, and again, another random the the comp I always throw on Ellie running. First time I saw him run, and you'll appreciate this, the only person I could think of was the Roldis Chapman because the Roldus Chapman's the greatest athlete I've ever seen, and a Roldis Chapman was that fast. There were times like there was an ongoing debate in the Reds organization for years who would win in a race between him and Billy Hamilton, and you could find takers on both sides now. If you're talking about a fight, I'm I mean I know who I'm taking there. But yeah, no, that's how fast a rollish Chapman is or was when he when he first came over. Like when he was starting, he could fly.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:19

Did they ever use him as a pinch runner? Did they ever get in that situation?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:22

No, because well, right, because he's a reliever, right? So that's a little harder when you're a reliever. Um, but I do remember I I I have to look this up sometime because it's as clear as day is my mind's eye, and I don't know if it actually happened or not, but I just remember him at Wrigley Field going first to third, and I swear he took six steps total, and it was in a blink of an eye. You plea if if you have this footage, I need to. I gotta go, I'll I will look it up. I'm gonna if if we ever stop recording this, I'll uh go look up some stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:53

I know we're gonna continue doing this zoom while I'm on the flight to Cincinnati. But you did mention a pitcher. I think we should mention the pitching just a little bit. Obviously, without Hunter Green right now, uh who started Nick Lodolo. Not look Nick Lodolo. Um, was it Abbott that started today? Yeah, he uh he did look great. It wasn't great. I think it was like six earned runs, and with that three inning or three plus innings, yeah. Three plus innings, which now means that there's only one starter, one qu well, there's only it's not really time for qualified yet, but there's only one starter with a flip under four. Um, how has the rotation looked overall?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:35

And it's it's hard to it's actually been good, yeah. It's been good, except for this turn for the most part. Um, you know, they're uh one and four in the stretch. Um you know, okay, here's the guys. Here's who has been starting opposite of Andrew Abbott, who is 0-2. Garrett Crochet, Paul Speans, pretty good, Sandy Alcantara, and um today it was Jose um Soriano. Soriano, yeah. Jose Soriano. Those are like, I'm like, holy crap. Like the guy who threw the best is the one who doesn't have a top two Cy Young finish. The one who was most oppressive, and that's Soriano.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:19

I like, I like looked at the box score just I think after the fourth inning and was like, yeah, Jorge Soriano or Jose Soriano. Three no-hit innings. I was like, oh, he's on today. Andrew Abbott was gone before the Reds got a hit.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:31

That's tough. Your opening day starter's gone before your team has a hit. But this Reds team has been winning despite the lack of offense. They're nine and eight. Um, and it's because if you want to just say like offense, pitching, and then clean, consistent baseball. They've done they've done two of the three most nights. And this last turn of the rotation, they didn't get the pitching. And so they only won one game, and that was an extra innings. Um, that was against Sandy Alcantara, who who was pulled in the ninth with like 90 some pitches. Uh, and then they came back and tied it and then won an extra innings. Uh, yeah. So E-Manager on that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:22

All right, Trent, they're banging on the door. They're saying wrap it up. Closing time is playing. They're saying if you talk any longer, we're gonna kick you out the building. We're not gonna let you back in. We're gonna take away the mics forever. So I'll leave you with this. Who is the player at either the major league level or the minor league level? What you're most most curious about? Who is the curiosity to? Who are you most who do you want to see where things kind of go? Nor like whichever way you want to interpret that. It's open to interpretation. For the audio listeners, he he's reaching into the bookcase. I don't know what he's pulling out. He's grabbing something. I think it might be is that a baseball card?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:04

It is a baseball card. And a API month coming up. But I'm serious. Sheng and Len. Um, sorry, my I I speak some Japanese. Um, my Tagalog is nothing we're gonna put it on here. Um, my my friends only taught me the important words, and uh it's been a while. Um, so my Chinese and spad. He was actually a two-way player, um, was on the provisional roster for Chinese Taipei, uh Taiwan's um WBC team. Uh the Reds, even though I bought this because well, I'll tell the story in a second. But he was a two-way player. This is signed, and he has it in the the the Chinese characters. Oh, so um, I bought that on eBay. It's like a reflector, too, so it's kind of just a cool one, numbered. Um, so he was a two-way player. Uh he is now on the mound. Uh, this is not on the mound. Uh, this was batting as a shortstop.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:07

For the for the visual, for the audio listeners, that baseball card hasn't hit.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:14

You know, he's still he's gonna turn 21 in uh a couple months. So he's still so he's 20, hasn't really played, he played in the complex league, um, but like 90 high 90s off the mound, he was. Um it's just a really interesting one that they they kind of let him play some shortstop. Um, but but I don't know that they were they kind of did that thing uh where they're like, hey, we're gonna let you play both, and you're gonna see why it's not a good idea. And and so that's kind of it unless you're Shohei Otani, and I think there's only one of those, um you're you you're probably gonna have to pick a lane. Um, I saw Michael Arenzen do it, I I've seen many others, and you know, we haven't seen another Shohei for very good reason. Um, because you know, we we haven't seen you know a big bang but once. Um, you know, these are things that only happen once in recorded history. Um, so yeah, so so an interesting guy. Um, the story I have and why I have the card, a guy I know um in 2021 called me and said, Hey Trent, I got a guy for you. He just got sent from the complex league to um to to Low A to Daytona. Shortstop. He is 6'5 switch hitter. His name is Ellie de la Cruz, and I was like, I don't care about anything else. That name, man, like you you there aren't many names that sound cooler than Justice de los Santos, but Ellie de la Cruz does. We can we can eclipse it. Eclipse it. I mean, you guys are yeah, but like, you know, Ctrl Rosecrans is not in that level. Um uh Charles Rosecrans isn't either. Uh, so I had to do something. Uh, but but yeah, so like that guy told me about this guy first, and he he called me uh a while ago and goes, I got another one for you. And like I had hadn't heard of Ellie at that time, even though if you go back in 2018, I published a picture of a 16-year-old Ellie de la Cruz uh standing next to Barry Larkin when he was just one of many kids in the Dominican Republic. Shot I took. First published picture of Ellie de la Cruz um was for me, and I did not know about it until several years five years later. Um, but uh anywho, he said this guy is legit. Um, I've been talking to a lot of people who really like him. So that's one Hector Rodriguez, an outfielder at AAA, and then on the big league team, um Chase Burns. Like, we know what it is, but where is it gonna be? Because what it is is pretty impressive, and what it could be is even more impressive.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:14

Chase Burns played under uh current Giants manager Tony Vitello in a past life.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:18

I think we might want to talk about that at a later point in later time, maybe on Riverfront territory, but we shall see.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:26

Maybe. Hey, you're talking about picking lanes. We did not pick a lane today. We swerved into every lane imaginable.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:32

We got pulled over. They did the field sobriety tests, they did it all.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:37

We allegedly passed it. We finally exited, we didn't make it on home, see Trent Rosecrans. Make sure you say the C when you say the man's name. Where can we find your work?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:47

Uh, the athletic. And also on here on uh Riverfront Territory, uh part of the Foul Territory Network, um, on YouTube's and all the uh wherever you get your podcast rate for view, subscribe. Is that what we say? Yes. That's a old dog, whatever we're saying these days.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:05

Whatever we're saying these days. But this is a lot of fun. Uh I'm looking forward to seeing you in a couple days, well, a couple days, a day, day-ish, day and a half at this point. And uh, I feel bad for whoever's sitting next to us in the press box because if you can imagine what it's like now, imagine in person. It's gonna be even less. It's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:21

We're gonna have fun, screw the rest of them.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:23

Screw the rest of them, and please save me a bowl of skyline chili when I'm there. Justice Delos Santo, Ctrrent Rose Crance. Thanks for listening. Please do the one the closest to my apartment, which is also the closest to the stadium. Please do, please do. But this was a lot of fun. Justice Delos Santos, C Trent, Rosecrans, Giants baseball, Cincinnati Reds baseball. Catch y'all in the next one.