Splash Considerations Ep. 12: Is This Beef Organic?

SAN FRANCISCO — The Giants found themselves beefing with an opponent for a second straight week, but how does their dust-up with the Los Angeles Dodgers compare to their kerfuffle with the Cincinnati Reds? Justice is joined by Shayna Rubin of the San Francisco Chronicle to discuss the Dalton Rushing saga, the Giants' bullpen stepping up, Tyler Mahle out-dueling Shohei Ohtani and Patrick Bailey's latest game-changing home run. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Welcome to another episode of Splash Considerations. My name is Justice Del Santo, San Francisco Giants B reporter for the Bay Area News Group, San Jose Mercury News, East Bay Times, whatever you want to call us, as long as you read, as long as you subscribe. And speaking of subscribe, subscribe to the YouTube channel, follow us on Apple, follow us on Spotify. A lot of things in the world cost a lot of money that still remains free 99 and just a couple seconds of your time. And now join me to discuss the Giants taking two of three for the Los Angeles Dodgers is someone that I'm hoping is not gonna hit me with 93 to the ribs. Shayna Rubin of the San Francisco Chronicle. Shayna, how are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Great. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Doing well, still trying to reel back from um a lot of social media discourse. A lot of social media discourse uh these last couple days. And obviously, this is the Giants and Dodgers first time meeting this year. And this is actually our first time being able to discuss this rivalry in any capacity on the podcast, and we've talked about this rivalry off camera. And I'm sure the folks over at Giants Talking, Splash Hit Territory, they've had their conversations, but we haven't had our conversations about the rivalry. So the place where I want to start with you, Shayna, we both grew up in the Bay. Favorite Giants Dodgers memory. There's a lot we can pull from.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Yeah, you warned me about this, and then I forgot to think about it, but I feel like the obvious one is uh the Bonds Gagne at bat. Um an iconic moment in Barry Bond's lore, iconic moment in rivalry lore. Um probably some of like the best central like individual baseball moments, just in terms of um the heightened uh excitement, the the sort of like individual uh looking at each pitch, and every pitch came with so much anticipation, that's the word I'm looking for. Um and it ended, I mean, if you're a Bay Area fan, as we were, then it ended in a very sort of like, ah yeah, we got the guy type of ending. So um yeah, that's a that's a pretty iconic moment.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

What was your favorite pitch of that at bat? I have a favorite one.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

What's your favorite?

SPEAKER_01 2:45

I was wish I was hoping you pick one so I'd be able to pick whichever one you didn't. Um I think I think it's the lone curveball that he throws because as the story goes, Gagne said like they had a gentleman's agreement, there was something that they did in Japan, and they were like, I like I get one curveball. And he threw it was like perfect. It was just this beautiful, like froze him. Bonds like knew like he knew that there was gonna be a breaking ball in there and just absolutely froze him. And maybe if we had the ABS system back in 2004, whoever the catcher was would have went to the hat. And then I think second favorite is the one that Bonds pulls into the water because that's like a hundred that he pulls into the water. And it was just I think they even said that on the broadcast. It was just such a such a good at bat from from start to finish. Did I take any of your favorite pitches or yeah, you did?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

I mean, I think that the the the the story behind the you know the the gentleman's agreement not to throw a certain pitch and then him throwing it sort of like the the mental guess of of that is so interesting because you watch it a certain way and then you hear the story behind it later. It's just like, oh my gosh, there's so much detail in every single second of what happened there. So yeah, I think that's in retrospect. The one that he pulled into the water was like, oh, like you know, that that's sort of a the exhale, oh my god, this is huge. But uh yeah, the uh the story that came from that that curveball is probably like made that the most interesting pitch.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Yeah, and then obviously he homers, that's how it ends. I think and it's just one of those cool baseball things because like it was a two-run lead. That was like the only set of circumstances when they would have like that would have gotten to happen. Like if it was a one-run game, Ganya's going after him, but the stars kind of aligned, everybody's standing on the dugout railing. It's just a super cool moment, and it's it's one of those things. I remember I asked Tony about in spring training. I was like, Do you remember that at bat? And he's like, Oh yeah, remember that at bat. My I don't know if this is my favorite Giants Dodgers memory necessarily, but it comes to mind because I was listening, I had I had Spotify on Shuffle, and Chance the Rapper's coloring book came up, 2016. The this is this is this is not gonna crack anyone's top 10, but it was April 9th, 2016. I remember the date because it was the one it was my one-year anniversary with my then ex-girlfriend.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Wish her all the best. Wish her all the best. Um, but she she was an A's fan, but she was wearing Dodgers gear just to kind of you know build it up. And I remember I had a conversation. It's funny, this is super random. I had a conversation with Mark Corrig at the Athletic, and he was like, This is when I was super early in my journalism career. Like, I wasn't even in college yet. And he's like, if you want to be in the industry, this is what it's gonna take. But the reason that people, other people remember that game is because Madison Baumgartner homered off Clayton Kershaw for the second time, and Kelby Tomlinson almost did. He like pulled one that was just like left as a foul pole. Giants actually lost that game, but get get anytime you get to see Madison Baumgartner Homer off, Clayton Kershaw. Always a fun one. Now, let's get into the actual thing that the people are here to talk. Actually, no, quick detour. Quick detour. Okay. We're gonna talk about this for 30 seconds on each side because I got a beef with you, and I gotta beef with Alex Pavlovich. What? This is an interpodcast beef because neither of you believe that Fip should be negative, and I hold it.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

I didn't, I told you, I told you I was gonna hit you with something when we started recording. I didn't tell you what. I believe it should. You and Paz believe it shouldn't. Lay out your argument as to why.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

I mean, I don't think that I don't completely reject the idea of it being negative.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Um You completely rejected the idea when we were talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

I I I I do reject it, but I'm I'm I'm not I'm open to uh you know interpretation or whatever. Um I think that just like an ERA, a FIP, if it if it goes zero, should be the if it's zero, it's zero. If it's zero, that's the best. If it's zero, it tells you everything you need to know about how dominant that pitcher is. And then once you get into the negatives and you're sort of thinking about a pitcher's impactfulness as it relates to fielding independent pitching and earned runs and and it it goes into uh less than zero, it doesn't necessarily compute in terms of impact to me. Like I think that not to say that everything should be overly simplistic, but I think that making it having zero be the best just uh makes sense in terms of uh evaluating a pitcher's impact. And that's what PIP is supposed to do, and that's what ERA, that that's how it's supposed to uh correct the issues with ERA. I don't, I don't know why. Um and I I I'm interested to hear your argument on it, but I I don't think that we need to uh get into the negative numbers when we're evaluating uh an earned run average or a pitching uh impact.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Oh, I do think we should get into the negative numbers. This is this is uh my again 30-second argument. It's kind of in the name. Earned run average is it's rooted in earned runs. It has to be zero. You can't allow fewer than zero earned runs. And fib, it's it's not it, it is rooted in earned runs to a degree, but like not entirely. And I just think that this is the example that I say. If you face 20 guys and 20 guys hit 400-foot flyouts, that's a zero ERA. Like it's gonna get reflected in your FIP, sure. You'll have like a three-something FIP, but if you strike out 20 guys, I think it should say something that it was neg like you were so good.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Yeah, but that shows in the case. But that that already shows in the other statistics. You're the the general impact is already of dominance is already expressed in every other statistic, and you don't need to go into the negative FIP to to express that. You need to show, yes, this guy, independent of fielding, was dominant as a pitcher, and that zero is an indication of that. And if he strikes out 20 guys, then he has 20 strikeouts, and you it in in and you can calculate the the rate at which he's striking guys out. Um, I think that we have enough information to adequately determine how uh dominant a pitcher is without having to get it. I mean, like, I'm not morally opposed to it. I just think it's uh it's a little bit unnecessary, I guess. I understand your point, but I just like it just seems like uh it was just when you saw that it was like, hold on, now I have to now we're we're we're going to the the infinite, you know, the other infinite number sort of uh on on either end of the spectrum and thinking even less than absolute. I don't know. It's very um, and I understand uh war goes into negatives, but that sort of makes more sense in in the context of uh impact overall, but fib is is you know, it's supposed to be another way to evaluate how impactful a pitcher is without the the defense behind him, without the ballpark. And I think zero says enough about it. And we have a bunch of other stats to tell us just how dominant he is. Oh, he has a zero fib. Why how did he do that? Oh, he has you know this many strikeouts and this type of impact in high leverage situations. It's we have enough information. This is this is a bit this is a sport with plenty of information to tell us how dominant a pitcher is.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yeah, and one of those pieces of information is a negative fib. That's all I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

That's another one along the way. I'll just make it a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Hey, it's it's more hey, think about it. Pardon the interruption wasn't part of the interruption because they were agreeing all the time. That's all I'm gonna say. All right, anyway, let's get into what we're actually here to talk about. So for the second straight week, Shana, two weeks in a row, we've got some beef. More beef? We've got some giants not making some friends in the posing dugout. Now, granted, this one's a little different than what a lot different than what happened in Cincinnati. I think the root of it um is a little more online than I would say. Uh what happened in Cincinnati. Cincinnati was very that was classic. That was analog. That was that was like the cameras I got here. That was like my my little Nikon FM right here. Like that was all analog. But what happened in what happened last couple days, that was that was very much online. So we'll get into the details, but Shayna, just overall thoughts on this I don't even know if you want to call it a chapter, like a subsection. It might be a chapter because the Giants go to LA again in a month, but on this little this little side note and the Giants Dodgers rivalry. What are your overall thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 11:20

I think my first thought is that it's kind of cool. Like I think that that's what the fans want. That's what the rivalry needs ever since it's gotten a little I mean, the the Dodgers, it's not just the Giants, it's ever since the the rivalry's gotten a little bit lopsided. Um you need a little fire in there. You need some some people, fans, baseball deserves sort of the intensity of of of bad blood and the intensity of feeling the competitive fire. That's what is intriguing. And I mean, there's so many uh things that are intriguing, and that's one thing that really just captivates captivates the uh the audience to the rivalry again. So I was a fan of just the reintroduction of tension into the rivalry, I guess. Yay for that.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Um yay for that.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Yay for that. The other thing that stands out is just how bizarre bizarre beef has become. Yes, this existed only in online. Like it starts with Jung Lu Lee uh slides home, has some weird injury that uh it looked like he like dislocated his shoulder. I thought that that's what happened, but he didn't. He hurt his quad. Um uh and then this is really just the curse of camera angles or the curse of having not knowing what camera's on you and what you may or may not be saying and how people interpret it in the split second that the camera is on you. So we saw it in San Diego when Matt Chapman was caught uh telling uh Casey Schmidt to catch the ball. I think that if you ask any baseball player any at any time at any point, uh, these are things that they're telling each other or to themselves um all the time. And it's when you get the the freeze frame of moments like this, and okay, I'll I'll go back to Dalton Rushing was caught looking back at uh Jung Hu looking forward, and then uh what Twitter and social media decided to interpret or pluck and put on social media in a viral moment is him saying supposedly ethum with the expletive. Um and uh so that's like now it's a moment because everyone saw it. And then so now you have to, as a reporter, take everyone's interpretation, everyone's lip reading that we're taking as gospel. Like it looked like you said this because uh all the expert lip readers on Twitter have determined that that's what you said, and then it becomes this sort of very strange blurred line of uh uh creating a story out of a split-second moment that has become an issue based on everyone else in the universe's interpretation of events. Because when you see when you sequence Jung Hoo's hurt, Dalton Rushing looks like he said this, and then it cuts to commercial, it's like, whoa, that was a moment, but it's really just the sequencing of broadcast television and not necessarily uh a proper um recounting of events. So, anyway, that became a story because of the sequencing and tell them how you feel, Shana. I'm like mad about it.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Tell them how you feel.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

I think it's so interesting that how much everyone else's interpretation of events have have to become part of the story. And the reason why it became part of the story is because uh Logan hit Dalton Rushing with uh Logan Webb hit hit Dalton Rushing with a 93 fastball on his ribs. Um, and he after the game I saw denied that it was uh because of the Jung Hoo situation, but you know, it's baseball, and and he was grinning while he said it. So it's uh it's fun to have the beef, but it's like, what is what are they mad about? Like it's just so bizarre. And when you really write it out, it's like this is so it's so strange the way that that beef gets formulated now. It's very bizarre.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Like the way like when you like when I was writing the story, kind of summarizing everything yesterday, I was like, this is so like this is the opposite of what happened in Cincinnati. And and again, one other thing to add is that you know, along with you know, Rushing getting plunked in the ribs, which was the only like inside, like really inside fastballs that Logan threw yesterday, uh, rushing also slid into William Adamas. And we asked Luisa Rias after the game, what did you think of that play? He said it's not good baseball. I asked him, Did you think it was dirty? He said it's dirty, but that's baseball. And it is very odd because again, like you know, if the Dodgers broadcast doesn't catch that camera angle, this isn't a story. And I think I was kind of joking about this, but it's it kind of this all started with you know Hector Borg just making it all start, you know what it started with? It started with the rain. That's actually the start of this. Because Jung Hu Lee's on first base, or I can't remember what he reached base, but like in the sixth inning of Tuesday's game, it just starts pouring. Like the hardest I've ever seen it rain in Oracle. Now, granted, I was not there for the 2012 uh NLCS when they clinched, but it was pouring. Elliot Ramos hits a single up the middle, Hector Borg makes an aggressive send, and it's the combination of like Alice Call kind of throws one, like lobs it in, and then it's raining. Aggressive send it, like it makes sense. I do want to say, like, I understand the send. Um, but it like that's my that's where my thoughts went. Like, if it doesn't, if it is not raining, we don't get this entire beef. Or if Hector Borg doesn't make that send, we don't get this entire beef. Um, but yeah, it was super analog. It got like it obviously got picked up, and then you know, we have to write about it, and it's just like this weird kind of feedback loop. And I I kind of want to make a the irony was not lost upon me upon the lip about the lip reading because a lot of people were interpreting rushing as saying F him. Um I was not as comfortable making like saying that outright that like he said that because like the Eric when Eric Miller did it the other day, one they caught him on the hot mic, and he was and two, it was a like his his low, like the way his like lip was curling, like it was a very like like you could tell.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

And he owned up to it later. Yeah, he and he liked it.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

He was like there was like no, there was no confusion. The the Russian one, it was kind of like an ah sound, like an ah, and I was like, what does that even mean? So it was just a whole weird thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Um, but and he said he didn't say it. Who knows if you know plausible deniability.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Dave Dave Roberts said he said what he said, so I don't know what that kind of Dave Roberts also thought it was intentional.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

So I didn't say it. I didn't hear about it, I didn't say it. I said something else. I we heard we saw him. I mean, like in the immediate aftermath of the, and this is like players, not all the players obviously, but they're online too. They some of them see everything or lots of things right after the game happens. And to my understanding, some of the players were very aware um in the immediate aftermath of that game, what had supposedly happened with Dalton Rushing. So it wasn't like it was sort of this whoa, like Logan was I don't know, like the the some of the players are just as online online as everybody else. I'll say that.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

We know that Logan Webb is on Twitter. We this is this is this is a known fact, and so uh I'm personally not buying that you didn't see it. It's kind of like the Land the Roop thing. I don't believe that fastball slipped, but that's what they're saying. Because if you know if they say yeah, I hit him.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Land Reeves, like the way that he said that, there was like it was like art. There was an art to the way that he delivered that line.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Perfectly executed.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Perfectly executed.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

But the way that I'll kind of pin a ball in this conversation is that again, Giants go to LA uh beginning on May 11th for a four-game series at Uniquo Field at the Audrey Stadium. We'll talk about that later. We will talk about that later. Um, I will have all I'll be wearing exclusively Unique loads of that series. But we got something for that next series. Uh Logan Webb is in line to start. Dawn Rushing is probably going to start, and we'll see how that goes. But Shane, I think we should get into the actual baseball because there's some interesting baseball to talk about these last couple days. Giants obviously taken two or three. They've won five of the last seven. They've won two series in a row for the first time under manager Tony Vitel. They are 11 and 14, which is a lot better than where they were the last time we talked. Um, let's kind of go game by game here. Starting with game one, they win three to one. Uh, a lot of a couple different things happen in this game. Uh Landon Root goes five, but he did walk five batters. He has that inning where he walked four. Ryan Barucky's kind of scrambling in the bullpen to get warming up. Like it was crazy because the first three innings dominant. Like five strikeouts, first three innings, struck out Otani twice. Command just disappears in the fourth inning, manages to get out of it having only allowed one run, gets this inning-inning double play, curls the body, emotion, cathartic yell, gets one more inning. But the main thing that stuck out from that game was the bullpen. And we've talked about this bullpen a lot. Ryan Barucki, Matt Gage, Eric Miller, Keaton Wynne, and Ryan Walker. In that order, four scoreless innings, three hits, no runs. Ryan Walker get Ryan Walker gets a save after blowing the one in DC. And we talked to Eric Miller, we talked to Ryan Walker, and it's very clear that you know the point that we made a couple weeks ago, it's the DMX, like, Tony Vitello's looking for the dogs. Where are my dogs at? And between Miller and Walker. I think we I think Tony Vitello's finding out where the dogs are.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Yeah, I think that's like seems to be believable or not believable, seems to be their defining or their identity right now. Is um, I mean, and uh the bullpen going into the season, that was a question mark, obviously. And they in that post-game after that win were acknowledging pretty, especially Eric Miller, acknowledged pretty openly, like, yeah, we know that everyone is doubting us. We know that everyone thinks that we're the weak link here. We are understand that, you know, that's not invalid. We don't have a lot of experience here. We uh we're a little banged up too. Uh there's a lot of, I mean, and the fact that there is no defined closer and no defined roles, and it's a question mark in many ways. So instead of uh, or what what they've done is they haven't really been a the bullpen as a as a group hasn't really been the biggest problem of this team at all. There have been a couple of bullpen losses. Which bullpen losses always appear more devastating than any other loss. Um, but it has not been the weak link that uh was anticipated. And that was a game and the the the sort of cherry on top defining game of them sort of declaring themselves like, yeah, you said we were gonna problem, but we're we're not a problem. We're we're good. And in fact, we are taking that and we're we're we're uh we have an attitude that is going to we want to prove everyone wrong and we want to we want to show how good we actually are. And they did uh in that moment against the Dodgers against one of the best lineups in baseball. Um so in that way it was added to the sort of specialness of of the series uh as a whole, I guess is is is what they were able to do.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah, I can't remember if it was I can't remember exactly how Eric Miller phrased it, but he said that there's kind of like an FU mentality, which again, if we're talking about chippiness, we're talking about edginess, like it's it's slowly becoming apparent, like the Giants are kind of like leaning into this element and again and the bullpen in particular. And Ryan Walker also had just an absolute banger of a quote. I can't, again, I don't have it up verbatim, but he's like, I don't care who we're playing, like it, like I don't care that they're the defending champs. Like the second you walk into a game and you start fearing them, you've already lost the game. They're just another baseball team. And like it's one of those things where it's like, yeah, you know that, like, as a reporter, because yeah, like these are all just baseball players, and there's good baseball teams, bad baseball teams. But to hear him, to hear Ryan Walker say that, to hear Eric Miller say that there is like this FU mentality, again, like I'm not ready to definitively say like this Giants bullpen is like one of the best in baseball. It is, you know, still we're still in April, but I'm I'm I'm I'm encouraged by what I'm seeing as far as you know how good this bullpen can be. The pieces are kind of starting to fall together, and I will note too, they didn't allow a run in this entire series. Ryan Walker also got the save for game two. Also, shout out to Caleb Killian real quick. He got his first win of his career in DC, kind of fun full circle moment for him after he was drafted by the team. So again, I'm I'm not like banging the table saying that this Giants bullpen is gonna be one of the best in baseball, but when they have the stuff, they got the mentality, that's how you make a good bullpen. And it's been fun to watch so far.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Yeah, and I I think this was a series where if things didn't go in the first two games the way that they had they went, and this is not just in the pitching uh in the bullpen usage, but also in the you know the bench usage. Um if things didn't go the way that they went, then it might have been there might have been a harsher microscope on Tony Vitello's decisions. Um, you know, why go why burn through all three left-handed pitchers against a very left-handed lineup in uh a matter of uh inning two innings, inning and a half, whatever it was. Um you know, you you you look at Ryan Walker and you think, okay, and Chohe Otani is uh is is in the on-deck circle and you don't have a lefty to to to use against him. And with the bullpen management doesn't seem sort of airtight in that moment, but everything worked. So it's it it it it does feel like okay, there's there look there appears to be the right pushing of buttons when it comes to the bullpen, and it's in certain situations when it comes to the bench, um, that came to fruition against in a very uh high-profile series like that.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Yeah, it's uh the point that you were making. You know, Eric Miller was used for Shohei, I think in is either the seventh or the eighth inning. And when Ryan Walker entered for the save, he his responsibility was the 7-8-9 guys. And if he didn't retire any of them, Shohei was gonna be up at the minimum to be the tying run. And he retires all three of them. Uh, he strikes out Alex Freeland to end the game. I think when the count got to 3-2, he said he was like so zoned in that he forgot what type of what were the he was at in the order. And then he looks over and then Shohei Otani's there. He's like, okay, I need to punch this guy out right now, and then proceeds to punch him out, which again, just enough like that. That was a Ryan Walker masterclass after the game. So it and I think when we asked Vitello after the game too, like, hey, would it have been good to have a lefty? He's like, well, now that you pointed out, probably would have been a good idea to have uh a lefty available, but it all worked out in the end. And speaking of the bullpen, uh, in game two, it was actually the Dodgers bullpen uh that was not having a good one. But before getting into that, uh, as far as that game, game two, the Giants win that three to nothing. We're getting to the Bailey Homer in a second, but Tyler Malley out dueling Shohei Otani, especially given how Malley's first couple starts of the season went, especially given how his last start went against the Reds, that was not on my bingo card, Shana.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Not on my bingo card. It's it's a tall task to go up against Shohe. And Shohei was pitching insane. Like he just he looked he looked incredible. Um I think that his at bats, just not to make it up about Shohei, but he's been he's looked a little bit sort of um draggy for uh because it's April or whatever. Um, but uh did not have on the bingo card uh Tyler Malley out dueling, outpacing um Shohei. And he, you know, he did exactly what he came as advertised to do. He was pretty efficient, getting ground balls, getting getting the the outs, the timely outs he needs, um, and doing it in a very calm way. There were there weren't really any, from what I can remember, got there weren't any really dramatic innings or moments. Um, so props to props to Tyler Malley. Good start.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

And he did get some a couple assists from his defense. I know that there was one, I think it was High Sung Kim was hitting. He hits like this short hopper to Luisa Rias, who like I love I'm slowly loving to beginning to love watching Luisa Rias play defense, not because of just like the numbers, like I think it's plus four OAA, but like there's like a flare to him. Like the next time somebody hits like a grounder to him, just like watch how he throws. It's like a it's like a snap. There's like there's there's a swagger to it. And again, it's that's a lot more fun to appreciate when he does just surprisingly have like plus four outs above average. But I know Louis uh Willie Adamas had a short pick uh as well. And it's funny because you mentioned that Mally was like super, he's that's his personality. He's like super low-key, kind of low motor. Uh Shohei, he was pitching like it was October at Oracle, like I think the sixth inning. He I forgot who he struck out to end the inning, but he's walking off that mound. He's like, he's not exactly pounding his chest, but he's like, he's roaring. I'm like, dang, Shohei, it's April. But this was also Shohei's like first in he pitched last year, but it was it was his build-up to like being an actual starter again. So it was like he was basically an opener at that point. So this was Otani's like first true start as part of this rivalry. I think it also helps that this was a night game opposed to a day game when was the last time he pitched. And the one thing, and I I know Giants fans like, yeah, yeah, showhey, show hey, whatever, but it's one of those things where, like, as you're watching it, like when he came to the plate to lead off, I'm sitting next to John Shea, and we both we both put pulled each other's screens down. It's like you just gotta watch the dude. And yeah, Giants fans might be sick and tired of hearing how great he is, but this is the most talented baseball player like I have ever seen with my two eyes, and it's one of those things where you just never get sick of seeing it, even if it is again, even if it I know I know Giants fans, even if it is against the team you root for, it's just you gotta sometimes you gotta take a step back. And I think Logan even said that yesterday as well. You like just as a fan of baseball, you gotta take a step back and be like, dang, like this is this dude's operating on his own level.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

He demands it too. Like you feel the spectacle when you're watching him live, and it has a lot to do with the fact that everyone, and I I mean that I hate to say it for giants purposes, but uh there the ballpark was filled with Dodger fans. Like it was and a lot of it is the the show experience. It obviously there's a there's an element of like the recent success that has a lot to do with it, but it felt especially dodgery on his pitching day because it's he's a spectacle. It's it's he's a tourist attraction. He's uh he's something different than just the game itself. And I hate to make one player I I don't even know if I hate to do it, but I think that baseball players really it's just like it I think that it's it's uh obviously good for baseball. Um but um yeah, it's it was a festival and it it is a pull your lap for us, a pull your laptop down moment because you you realize you're you're witnessing and watching history, and it's definitely a moment that you want to soak in, even if uh he plays for um the other side in this rivalry and and for Bay Area people.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

I do want to bring up a point that Vitello made, and I agree with this point where it's like if you're a player, if you're a manager, like yeah, you you prefer like 100% of the fans there to be the fans of your team. But I think it not think I know it's more fun when there are Dodger fans there, and like again, Giants fans might want to hear that, but go to the ballpark and experience that. And again, I know that's not easy for everybody because they're so these tickets are so expensive, it's so expensive. I wish, I I wish like I like Zoran Mom Donnie, I wish I had the answers to how we can get the prices down. He was asked about that with the Knicks prices, but it there's just an energy there, like when there are dueling allegiances, like there was a moment on Tuesday where it's like you have this cacophony of let's go Dodgers and beat LA, and like they're saying it at the same time, and like it just sounds incoherent. And you can't get that. Like, again, with all due respect, you can't get that if it's just Giants fans. And again, I think if anyone asked any Giants fan that was there, like they'll tell you it's more fun when it's like that because sometimes it's just fun to hate. Like, that's why this rivalry is fun. Sometimes it's fun to be a hater. So anyway, we've been we buried the lead about the most important part of this game long enough. Patrick Bailey. Oh, right, yeah, another another banger of a moment, and it is just so fascinating to me because he has 22 career homers, he has four of them are walk-offs, and I think seven of them are in the seventh inning or later. And obviously, he had the walk-off grand slam against Tanner Scott last year, the inside the park walk-off against the Phillies. And I asked him, I was like, what allows you to come through in these moments so consistently? And he proceeds to respond, God didn't put a spirit of fear in me. And I had to listen back to that ten times to make sure that's what's said. Now, I will say that that wasn't a completely original thought, it was effectively a remix of a Bible verse. I don't know what the I can't remember exactly what it is, because at the end of it he says like it's like love, self-discipline, like that's a Bible verse. But he remixed it and regardless, I honestly don't care. 80 grade quote for an 80-grade swing, just two years in a row off a lefty, and it was a big swing of the back for him because going into that game, I think among I think the stat that I pulled up, players with at least 60 plate appearances, it was like the third or the second lowest OPS. Like Daniel Susak was making a legitimate case to start taking more playing time just because he was there was an 800-point difference in OPS, even with Bailey's defensive value. And that's just overall, we know the defensive value, that's not a question, but maybe this is the swing of the bat that gets him going. And it's even if he's not gonna be, you know, an average hitter, even if it's just you know, somewhere to it the the neighborhood of being more palatable for his defensive value to shine.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Yeah, I mean it's I last year the the the inside the park walk-off, I think that was his second home run of the year, and it came in, I don't remember what month it was now.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Was it August? July August?

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Wow, okay, yeah, and that was the second home run, and it it felt like uh okay, you asked the same question, is this going to be the moment that he starts to wake up a little bit and he he he feels the flow a little bit at the plate, and they could really use that and to to keep his glove relevant and and and and line up. But um and I think it happened to a certain extent in the second half of him last year. Uh he he kind of got going a little bit, but um, I think that the main story so far in the last two years with him has been that the quote that he the bar that he spit has been very true, which is he his best, his biggest moments. I mean, that the home run against the Dodgers, uh, that was his first home run of the year, and it was his first hit off a lefty of the year. And it's it was the biggest swing of the entire series, probably. So it's if that's who that if that's who he is, if he's the guy that you know, the unexpected guy that comes through in big moments, I think that the type of vibe that Buster Posey wants to create is like we want that guy that feels like when he's even though he has a sub two batting average, if he's go up the plate in a big moment, he's feeling more confident than anyone else. That's that's sort of like the the the dynamic that that Buster it almost feels intangible that Buster wants to create. And uh so it's it's an interesting story, it's an interesting um uh role that that Bailey has played in in his in the last couple uh months and and years at the point.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

This is not a one-to-one comparison by any stretch of the imagination, but I know that you, as someone that covered the Warriors, will appreciate this, even though this is not directly a Warriors comp. Robert Ory is a Hall of Famer for a reason. Right? Even I don't know, is he a Hall of Famer? He's one of the I think so. Let's just say he's a Hall of Famer. Robert Ori.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

A lot of Hall of Famers in basketball.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Yeah, like when you think of Robert Ori, you think of some moments, and when you think of Patrick Bailey, at least when it comes to the plate, there are a couple different moments that you think of. And it's I remember back in this is gonna be I I joke that I try to limit my pirates coverage here, but I do want to bring this up. Uh 2023, when I was covering the Buccos, they had some they had Josh Palacios, and his like OPS in late in leverage situations was like 1300, and like he kind of hit the homer that ended the Cubs season that year, and he did like in Chicago and he did the Jordan shrug. So as he's rounding the bases, so some guys like it's not as prevalent in baseball because like basketball, like you got that guy, two minutes throwing the ball, but like it it is present in baseball to a degree where it's like sometimes when you're in that big situation, there are some guys you wanted to play, even if the numbers might not necessarily say that you know this is a guy that's been doing it innings one through six. Sometimes when that guy comes to the plate that's been having success laying the innings, even if the numbers aren't there, sometimes that's the guy you want at the plate.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

I mean, in the press box, we were talking about the at before Drew Gilbert stayed in the game against the lefty, laid down a sacrifice bunt, and it's just like the conversation is why are you having Drew Gilbert lay down a sacrifice bunt for Patrick Bailey against a left-handed pitcher? And then it's like, oh, where's the Daniel Susak is injured? Then would be the time to use him. And why, you know, why aren't you getting Jarrell in the game before that? Why aren't you sort of optimizing these outs to using your bench to do so against a lefty? And then you're you have Bailey up there, and you're thinking, uh, this is not the guy you want in the situation. And then quickly the script flips to wait a minute, that is maybe that is the guy you want in that decision or situation because uh he has a clutch gene. He's I think the stats for all the millions of stats we have uh have shown that that's the guy you want in a clutch situation. And every, you know, general statistics says it's not, but every you know slightly uh made-up stat about how players perform when their back is against the wall says that's who you want. So it's such a it's such a bizarre game that you know you want to optimize every out, but you also want to, you know, rely on your guy or whatever. So very, very fun based on the one, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Yeah, and Vitello was asked after it was actually the first question. It's like, why did you go with Bailey in that situation? And and Vitello said that actually the biggest the bigger decision was whether to pinch it for Gilbert. Gilbert lays down the sack bun, and then they kept Bailey in the game. Obviously, you mentioned Daniel Susack was injured, but Vitello said hitting coach Hunter Ments uh thought the matchup was good, thought that there'd be a good chance that Bailey put a ball in play. And did he put a ball? Did he put a ball uh in play? Game three of the series. Uh we kind of touched about like the the biggest parts of it. Obviously, Dalton Rushing getting hit in the ribs and then proceeding to slide into Willie Domas. But I do want to quickly run through uh the actual game itself, because uh not a ton to talk about, but Tyler Glass now shoved eight innings, scoreless innings, one hit. Uh Logan Webb, one of his better starts of the season, has been a rough go of it for to begin the season. His 4-8-6 ERA through his first six starts is his highest since he was a rookie in 2019. But three runs over seven innings, he said that this was the best, like one of the better outings that he's had so far. And you know, he is gonna have to it's gonna take some time to you know trim that ERA down, especially when you begin a series season like he did against the Yankees. But just overall impressions on what Logan Webb did yesterday, and you know, just we don't have to talk about the rushing thing anymore. Yeah, we talked about the rushing thing. We've talked about it.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

I mean, I think that it looked worse in context of how Glasno pitched. Pit pitched, pitched, um, but uh it was it was a good start for I mean he's had kind of a rocky start to the year. Um he has rough patches every year where he's just not really feeling himself, but he is very honest about when he knows he's pitching well and when he's not, and the fact that he was feeling good. And generally speaking, going seven allowing three is not terrible. I don't think that he looked he wasn't giving up a ton of hard contact from what I could tell. Um, so I think that you know, can't be upset about how Logan Webb pitched. I don't know if if uh maybe I'm I'm missing something glaring.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Yeah, if the Giants score five runs, different story. It's always like one of those interesting things about when you're a starter, like same start, different offensive outcomes, and the start looks different uh entirely. But again, I'm I'm always in the camp that the longer a guy's track record, the longer I'm gonna wait to be concerned. And you know, Logan has had these blips before. We saw it last July. It's just happening at the beginning of the season, so it looks more alarming when you look up and the ERA is like near five. But I'm not ready to kind of sound the alarm yet. Like if we get into May and it's still in the upper fours, then yeah, sure, let's have a conversation. But step in the right direction for Logan Webb. He will not be pitching in this upcoming three-game series against the Miami Marlins who come to town for a three-game set. Uh, wrote a story this morning that came out about you know the Marlins, how exactly how their pitch calling from the dugout works. Talked to Buster Posey, talked to Eric Haas, uh Alex Berg, Patrick Bailey about that. For those of you who are interested, yes, Shayna, I am going to unshamefully plug my own stuff in my own podcast. But the Shayna, the last thing I want to leave you with before we get out of here is that on Saturday they're doing the Brandon Belt celebration. We did it with Crawford last year. Is it safe to say, is it safe to say that there is a very clear winner to the Belt Wars? Is it finally safe to say it?

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Who's on who's is the Belt Wars Brandon Belt good, Brandon Belt not good? I've always wondered, like, I I know about the I know about the Belt Wars, but what what's what are the who what's the winner or loser? Tell me the tell me the sides.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

I mean, one side is just like Brandon Belt was never like the prototypical 25-30 homers again. Uh yada yada yada. And but yeah, the other side is like, no, he's actually good. And I don't know, the fact that they're celebrating him, I personally think that there's a very clear winner in all this, and that's that's the that's the pro side.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

I think that if you ask Brandon Bell how he feels about his career, he's probably not too bad about it. He won a couple championships on a good team, he was part of one of the better teams in a in a franchise history, he was a key contributor to uh to that team. I think that if you ask him and a lot of people in San Francisco, he's won the war.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

If I had a nickel for every every important Giants infielder named Brandon, who spent the bulk of their career with the Giants only to spend the last year of their career with another team, I would have two nickels, Shayna, but it's just odd. It's not a lot, but it's odd that it happened twice. Shayna, this is a lot of fun. Uh, we will talk again sometime soon. Anything you want to plug, anything you're working on to let the people know about.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Oh, uh, I'll have a story out that you guys should read um about Elliot Ramos um soon. I haven't started writing yet, but it's coming. It's happening. Keep an eye out in the chronicle.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

It's in motion. It is in motion, and we will be in motion. We will be at the ballpark tonight. Shana, this is a lot of fun. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for the listeners. Listening once again. Again, subscribe if you feel so inclined. Hit the follow. It's free. And uh we will catch you in the next one.