Splash Considerations

Splash Considerations Ep. 13: 28 Games Later ... (feat. Alex Pavlovic, Charlotte Varnes)

• Justice delos Santos

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PHILADELPHIA — Justice is joined by NBC Sports Bay Area's Alex Pavlovic (@PavlovicNBCS) to discuss the Giants' first month of the season so far. Then, Justice talks with Charlotte Varnes of The Athletic to preview the Giants' upcoming series against the Philadelphia Phillies, who fired manager Rob Thomson on Tuesday morning. 

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to another episode of Slash Considerations. My name is Justice Delos Santos, San Francisco Giants B reporter for the Bay Area News Group, San Jose Mercury News, East Bay Times, whatever you want to call us, as long as you read, as long as you subscribe. And speaking of subscribe, subscribe to the YouTube channel, follow us on Apple, follow us on Spotify. A lot of things in this world cost a lot of money, but following, subscribing, that remains free 99 and just a moment of your time. I'm now joined by a television superstar, a best-selling author, and most importantly, somebody who's wrong about just how low FIP should go. Alex Pavlovich, welcome back to the show. Wait, what's Mason Miller's FIP right now? Do you do you have it updated? It's still negative. It's look when I checked it last night, it was negative 0.35, even though he has a louder earn run. Although it was kind of weird because there was like a ball that went foul. They picked it up, they called it fair. Whatever. But it is it's still negative as of right now.

SPEAKER_00

I didn't watch, I didn't, I was not watching uh was it Padres Who? Cubs? Padres Cubs on a Monday night.

SPEAKER_01

I would have been very concerned if you were watching Padre's Cubs on a Monday night. I was not.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, what do you got? What do you got, Justice?

SPEAKER_01

What, that is still negative?

SPEAKER_00

No, I'm putting you on the spot.

SPEAKER_01

I'm I'm ready, I'm ready to go. You ready to go? Okay. I thought you were gonna answer.

SPEAKER_00

Were we arguing about Mason Miller?

SPEAKER_01

I thought you wanted to give your take because that's what you texted me. You said I want to come on your podcast, tell you why this shouldn't be a thing.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I said next time I come on your podcast. So this is next time. This is next time. It shouldn't be a thing. It shouldn't. I'm I'm looking at his fangraphs page right now, and it goes ERA X ERA FIP XFIP. And so they are all lined up so that they're all supposed to be better versions of ERA next to it. And one of them goes negative when you can't go negative with ERA. It's pretty stupid. That's my take.

SPEAKER_01

I said this to Shana last time. I disagree. I think it's cool. Baseball numbers are inherently dumb. And I just like it, it's funny.

SPEAKER_00

Anyway, this is a dumber version of we just have a negative in the middle of his whole career, and all these his X FIP is 0.04. Great. That tells me he's been awesome. And we have a negative here. So okay, that's my that's my fit rant.

SPEAKER_01

Agree to disagree, disagree, agree to disagree. So Giants took two or three from the Marlins. They're about to face a Phillies team that just fired their manager. I guess the question I want to start off with is have you ever covered a series where the opposing team fired their manager right before? I know that the Giants fired Cap like at the very tail end, but I think that's a kind of different set of circumstances than what's happening here. But anything comparable to rolling into a series and their manager just not being there?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I've covered a series where the Giants fired their manager. Um I maybe I don't I this is year 15 for me. So like maybe somewhere along the line in September, we got somewhere where someone fired their manager, but not in April. I don't remember that. Um I don't know what it means. We'll see what it means. I I would always, I guess, this is a very small thing. I'd rather face a team that's about to fire their manager who's playing such bad baseball that they're about to fire their manager than the one that, you know, just got a wake-up call. But um, no, I don't think I've been in this situation.

SPEAKER_01

We're gonna be talking to Charlotte Varnes at the Athletic on the back end of this episode for more on that. And uh kind of, I don't want to say old friend, old nemesis, I guess, Don Mattingly is gonna be the uh the new the new manager of the Phillies. But before getting into some of the Giants-related stuff, and I mentioned this to you, want to take more of a you know, a larger scale view with more than a month into the season being completed. But we obviously just had the Brandon Bell celebration day. I know that you're coming out with the interview you had with him this upcoming Thursday. You had a great story about him. You covered his whole career. So now that the belt wars are kind of officially over, and it's pretty it's pretty cool that there's a winning side, just when you had that opportunity to watch the celebration day, kind of maybe reflect on his career, just how do you evaluate his career overall, his legacy in San Francisco, and maybe just how much fun it was covering him? Because it seemed like he was he's able to get off a one-liner or two.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, um, the belt wars are never gonna be over because I think even like tweeting out videos of him celebrating with his family, there's there's occasionally a response there from someone who's like, Why is this happening? And I'm like, Okay, like one of the best players in franchise history. You can deny it, but he just is like it's you go by any advanced metrics, you just go by longevity, two titles, whatever you want to go by. Um, unless you wanted him to hit 35 homers and drive in 100 runs every year, then yeah, so it I don't think that will ever end. There's always gonna be people on the other side of that. Um, funniest player player I've ever covered, like without a doubt. I I had so much fun doing the interview with him, which will be out on Thursday's Giants talk, because it's just there's probably like 10 or 15 jokes just stuck in there. And I had maybe like 12 questions. So, like every single time he he gets a chance to get a joke off or take a shot at someone, he does. Um, and it's subtle for the most part, so or a lot of it is subtle. Um, and I I just he was just a really good player, and I think you know, we take for granted sometimes those guys, and we we spent the first two weeks of the season trying to figure out why a Giants first baseman couldn't catch a throw to first, and yeah, it'd be like once a year when Belt and Crawford combined on an error, and you I mean they they had other errors, but it it was like noticeable. I can remember off the top of my head, like certain games, like one in Washington, um, games where like a Crawford throw got away from Belt. And I just think that should be part of his legacy. And I I know Brandon Crawford would say the same thing, and Joe Pannock would say the same thing, and they don't have those gold gloves without the guy at first base scooping everything. And sometimes we take for granted how good, you know. I think similarly, we've taken maybe people have an understanding now in the years since of like, oh yeah, every ball to short, that was an out. Like every single ball to short was an out. So for the most part. Um, and yeah, that that would be my take on him. Is I just it was just so solid for so long that that it maybe people forgot, people forget sometimes to realize how good it is.

SPEAKER_01

I do want to make a quick aside because a lot of people were pointing it out that Brandon Crawford wasn't there, but he was also being celebrated uh in double A at the same time. Kind of odd how that scheduling kind of turned out, but this was not this was not an intentional thing where Brandon Crawford was just deciding uh to not be in San Francisco for that day. But transitioning from the past to the present, uh, we're more than a month into the season now. Giants are 13 and 15, they won three straight series and hasn't been boring. It has not been boring at any juncture from the very pretty much beginning of spring training up until now. It's been there's about a week of games there where they were scoring two runs. Overall, I think there's always been something to talk about, generally speaking. Like from opening day and night, the Chapman thing in San Diego. We've got a lot of beer showers, got a lot of beefs, yeah, got a lot of good, got a lot of bad. And so, just overall, again, we're a month into the season. I still don't have like a firm grasp of this team yet. Like, I've tried, like, I've wondered if that was true. Like, I was trying to like go back and forth with myself. I don't really have like a firm grasp of like where this team is at. Just for you, you know, 28 games in, just what do you think of this team overall?

SPEAKER_00

Um it's a good question. I I just wrote a long story this morning about the bullpen, and it's been the best unit on the team for three weeks now. And it was this isn't you and I saying it, and we were. Um this is people within the organization saying it in spring training. I'm sure you had these conversations. They were worried about the bullpen. Like, so they figured at some point it'd come together, it's come together quickly. Now, the other thing I looked up last night that I was surprised by is they've thrown the second fewest innings of anybody over those three weeks. So, even like, you know, as bad as some of the Hauser starts have been, he's still going like four innings, he's not going an inning in two thirds. Um, Logan's still going six or seven every timeout. Roop has become that guy. So Ray, pretty automatically five or six innings. So it's allowed him to be a little bit more flexible and allowed Tony to kind of be aggressive with with that bullpen usage and not have to hang guys out to try. Um, so I guess that's a surprise to me. In general, I I uh Henry Schulman taught me this years ago. He's like 40 games is like the the first big marker for me in a season, and maybe that's meaningless, but it's like get through a quarter of the season and kind of look around and see where guys are at. So I'm like kind of looking at Rafi Devers and going, This is bad, but also two weeks ago we were saying that about Jung Hu Lee and Casey Schmidt, and I think it's a shrieky group of guys, and it, you know, so there's gonna be some real lows. Um, there's gonna be some real highs for guys as well. What they haven't done yet, which I think they need to do at some point soon, is like run off like seven out of eight, because there's also gonna be a stretch where this group goes. We've just seen it from this group of hitters, like that they're very capable of scoring two runs a game for two weeks. So um, yeah, it's a streaky group. I don't really have a full handle on I think they're about who I thought. I mean, I I I think I predicted 84 wins at the start of the year, so they're not too far. I mean, they're under 500, but they're they're not six games under. So it's about kind of what I thought, just maybe in a different way, because I really thought they're gonna blow some games early. And they did blow a couple games early, but I thought they're gonna blow more games early. Um, and maybe the the starting pitching in the lineup would get them over the top. It's been the opposite. I think the starting pitching's been pretty inconsistent. Lineup for me has been a huge disappointment. Um, but the bullpen has really the last three weeks like closed out a lot of these close games. You see how difficult it is. I was not watching Padres Cubs last night, but I did briefly tune into Dodgers Marwins. And you see, like the Dodgers, like, oh, here they come in the ninth. And the Giants just got through that really easily for a couple days. So I I'd give all the credit to that group for the way this season has gone.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think there was legitimate reason for skepticism because you know, both of us hammered home this point that they just didn't invest a lot in their bullpen, and it was going to come down to you know, guys on minor league deals, kind of incumbents. And I think there was real reason for skepticism, but you see the way that some of these guys have really just come out and shoved to start the year, especially you know, Ryan Walker, for example, had blows a save in DC, comes right back, has two saves against the Dodgers, and just some numbers to provide some context. You mentioned the innings, but the you know, the 293 ERA, that's third in the majors, 389-5th, that's 11th. Uh, strikeout and walk ratio are both in the top 10. And this isn't a group that even has Jason Foley or Sam Henches yet, and so it's gonna be an interesting conversation uh when those two guys come back. Uh, you mentioned that you know they're about who they thought they were. It's the Tony Gen Dungeon, they are who we thought they were. Uh, someone who has not kind of been who we thought he was gonna be, and you mentioned him right now as Rafael Devers. And obviously, you know, we can point to short sample size and you know, Memorial Day, 40 days in, whatever you want to call it. It's always kind of like a good first marker of, you know, this is where team's at. This is when you start asking some legitimate questions and not quite there yet, but I wouldn't say the alarm bells are ringing, but they're kind of they're kind of flickering a little bit. I think that they're starting to rotate just a little bit. And it's not just the numbers, because the numbers aren't great. It's the 216 batting average, 5'6 OPS. The walks are down, the strike-ups are up, the war isn't great. He's dropped to fifth in the lineup on Sunday, but it's also the bat speed hasn't fallen off a cliff, but like the competitive swings just have fallen off a cliff. And this is a very long-term commitment. And again, with a guy like this, I think you take months. I was I'm gonna borrow a line that you said on Chiinstalk. It's gonna take months, if not years, to start having some true like alarm bells going off. But I don't know, just what have your early impressions been of what you're seeing with Rafi? Because obviously, like their ceiling is contingent on how well he plays, and you know, they've been two games below 500 with him not playing great, so you can only wonder like if this guy gets going, and especially considering they're like second to last in runs scored, like, where can this offense kind of go?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think the positive is like they've gotten, and I think Logan's been a little hard on himself, but they've gotten not what they expected out of Logan. And Rafi Devers has been one of the worst everyday players in the big weeks, uh, just by by war. Um, so those are their two best players, or should be their two best players. So there's a lot of upside there. Now, to your point, like, since you ran through all the advanced stuff, I'm just gonna be the old guy on this podcast and say eye test i test has matched what the numbers say, right? Like it's you see the swings and you see people pumping fastballs at him and him just being consistently late on fastballs, and it it does make you wonder a little bit. I know we've talked to Tony about this a lot, and he talks about you know, there's too much body in the swing, and there's um not using his hands. I think he compared him to Floyd Mayweather the other day, and so if you're trying to throw a punch, like you don't want to use your whole body. Um, so there's mechanical stuff going on. I also just I always wonder at this point of the year where you and it's especially important in this case, um, you know, there are just seasons where guys start to drop off. So, and I'm not saying we're there because he's not 34, but I just always kind of have that in the back of my head where it's like, I'll say, like, I had this last year with Willie defensively the first couple months. You're like, is this it for Willie Adamas at shortstop? And then the second half, he's one of the best defensive shortstops in the big leagues. Um, he's again gotten off to I think his full start defensively, but I think with the older guys, it's just kind of always in the back of my head of like, is the bat speed coming back? Is this just like the start of a different phase of Rafi's career? It shouldn't be. I don't think it is, but I do think with him it's a little bit more of like the bigger the sample size gets, the more you just have to kind of think big picture about like where's this headed with him, you know? Like it um, because they expected five or six more years of like prime Raphael Devers. So uh that would be I guess that would be my concern watching is just like where's the bat speed gone and and will he get it back quickly? Um again, it's been what 25 games for him. So small sample, we've seen what he's capable of last August, last September, or like when him and Willie got going at the same time. But it hasn't looked great early, and I it it has been just a little weird because you know you can see guys get into swamps different ways. You don't see a lot of guys like this get into a swamp where it's just like here's a fastball, here's a four-seamer, and we don't think you can really the only two like notable moments has gone the other way um last week, but like I'm still waiting to kind of see when's he gonna turn on like a 94 mile per hour fastball and put it in the cove. And we haven't seen that yet.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, during the the Saturday game in particular, I was talking to John Shea, and I think I had like a throwaway line to him where I was like, the Marlins should fine him for every fast for every non-fastball that he throws. And I tweeted it out like his first at bat of the day against Perez, it was five straight fastballs, and he struck out swing, and that's clearly gonna be the plan of attack with him going forward, unless things change. And you know, kind of the point about the eye test, too. I know I rattled off all the numbers, but like you see, like the compet like when he does have a competitive swing. I don't know if you feel the same way, but it does feel like it's not even a batspeed thing. It feels like he's just like like the timing is right, but he's just like a millimeter away from like connecting, and then if he starts connecting on those balls, then it's the Rafi Devers we see. And I don't know if you saw the clip, but uh a lot of people started circulating that clip of um when he hit the 103 off Raldus Chapman, like when he was and like that's what Rafi Devers can do when he's like really going good. And to the point you made, he's super streaky as well. So I don't know. Would you be surprised if like we when the calendar flips to June and like the numbers are kind of there? Because again, like he's just two, three weeks away from his numbers just kind of being where we've seen them be.

SPEAKER_00

No, I wouldn't be surprised at all, and it's where I kind of we're in this in-between where I think sometimes it's hard to talk about rationally because you can look big picture and go, like, is this is the bat speed falling off a cliff? Like, is this the beginning of the end for him? Um, or you can just say it's been 25 games, and you know, if this happened from June 15th until July 12th or whatever, like we wouldn't notice as much. We'd just be like, Ah, it feels like Rafi's in a swamp. So I I always have a difficult time early in the year um trying to figure out what's going on with guys because there is always that element of like sometimes you just look up and you and I've covered a lot of guys like this, um, where you just look up and go, like, okay, it's something has changed for them physically. Like it's it's they're a year older, they're maybe, you know, they they don't have that trigger that they used to have. Uh he's certainly not ever gonna be the guy he was when he hit. I saw that home run on my timeline like six times. I I don't know how these things happen where all of a sudden you just get fed the same thing over and over again. But like that was what was he, like 22? So it was I think he was like 20. He was pointing, yeah. He was like a baby. So that's a different level of of uh athleticism. But um, yeah, it hasn't it hasn't looked great. And I I think he's he's one guy. I I think I said this on the podcast, like Philadelphia, great place to hit, and then Tampa, he's spent a ton of his career there, should know that that ballpark pretty well. So if he doesn't get going this week, I yeah, you start getting into the 30 games and and you go, what, what's really going on here? Because it then you need more of an explanation of what's happening.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think we both kind of fall on the same boat here. And you mentioned it with Logan that the longer the track record, the more leeway you're willing to give a guy. And you know, one example that comes to mind, it's obviously very different, but it's like Jose Ramirez and I think 2019. Like first first half, he just looked awful. Like pretty much since then, he's been the same guy. Now, granted, it's not there are different points in their careers. I think there's like a five-year age gap between like what JRAM was at that time and now, but a little more leeway, and again, like if we get to Memorial Day 40 games in and the number and the OPS still starts with a five, then that's when the the big picture questions kind of are more appropriate to start getting to. Uh, I want to transition to another first baseman, albeit one we have not seen at the major league level this year, and that being Bryce Eldridge. And we we know that he's gonna be here at some point. I think that's still the general consensus. I think it would take a lot for him uh to not be here. The numbers with him with Sacramento have kind of been as expected. 305 batting average, 136 WRC plus, three homers, strikeout on the whiff rate's still not great. He is swinging a bit less compared to last year. I have obviously hadn't have a chance to talk with him and dig into that, but we're not quite in the May yet. We're still a couple of days away from May, but you know, based off your gauge of where this Giant seems at, where he's at, do you think we see Bryce Eldridge in May?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think the most interesting thing about the Bryce Eldridge comp conversation is that their best hitter plays this position, and it's not Raphael Devers. It's their currently their best hitter is Casey Schmidt. Like he's you can rattle off the advanced stuff, but it's like he's uh I think he still leads the team pretty easily in WRC Plus. Like he leads the team in OPS, he has four home runs. I again eye tests for me matches. I I know you tried to show me the other day, like he almost had six home runs on the homestand, and I'm like, Justice, I have a two-year-old at home, I'm not watching all Casey Schmidt's at bats from this homestand, but he did have a lot of that's the difference between our point in our careers.

SPEAKER_01

I I do not have the two-year-old at home, so I have to have a lot of time.

SPEAKER_00

And it's like a Saturday afternoon, and you're like, check this out. Look at all these close calls from Casey Schmidt, and I'm like, I'm gonna go see my son before he uh goes to sleep. But I I didn't watch him, like he did have what what was it, like six balls he found that were there.

SPEAKER_01

There was two that died at the warning track against the Marlins and the Dodgers, and there was like one more that was like this shy of the warning track. So he could like we could easily have like seven Casey Schmidt homers right now, and there was one that was foul, too.

SPEAKER_00

That was um so my point is like there's no reason to rush Bryce right now. And he plays two positions, he only plays two positions, he's not gonna play outfield this year. Um, Casey's has not been asked to get reps in the outfield. So there are ways you can move around this. Like you can I I just don't think they're not gonna move aries off second base. He's played some left field in the past, they're not gonna make that move. So there's just not a spot for Bryce right now, which I think is fine. And like the numbers that you brought up, the strikeout rate's still pretty high. And the other thing I'd like to see is I'd like to see more home runs. Like I this is supposed to be, you know, he's this he's been great. He's done everything he had to do in triple A, but I think the Giants and Tony said this. Um Tony said this at the end of the camp, like he wants to see a little bit more damage. And what they're talking about is they'd like to see more home runs. Like it's for a guy to get that call where he comes up here and you expect him to be a 30 home run hitter, you want him to show that he's a 30, 40 home run hitter in triple A. So right now he's right now, he's ironically very similar to uh I think Brandon Belt, where he's showing a really good eye um at the plate, at least. Like I think the walk rate is up, the walk rate was up in spring training, and we see a lot of doubles, we see a lot of hard hit balls. They haven't seen like the streak of like, hey, he hit four homers in a week in triple A. Like he really started to get going. So I think that's one thing they're waiting for. But I really just think the Casey part of this is important and realizing that like there's not an easy spot for Bryce right now. And you know, he plays first base, but Rafi Devers is going to play through this.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and the thing with Casey in particular, I remember he had a really rough Yankee series, and because he was playing those games at first base because Rafi was doing with the hamstring injury, I think a lot of people just in their heads were like, oh, like what's going on here? Like, why is Casey Schmidt getting so much playing time? But again, this is the point you made in the podcast is that Casey Schmidt was going to get a lot of playing time, and it's again, it's been like super weird, like roster fit functionally, because his best position is third base. He is not gonna be the starting third baseman anytime soon. Um, me and you were both kind of in the same camp of like why do they necessarily need to upgrade second base? Because you got Casey Schmidt and Luis Arise. I did write, I'm gonna shamelessly plug the story that I did about him with kind of the art of the take, go check that out. But you know, Arise has played very well, uh, even with some you know legitimate questions regarding, you know, the defense, uh the bat the ball stuff. But it is kind of an interesting spot because, like you mentioned, they don't really need to you know rush Eldridge to the majors. And to your point, like even with the average, like it's a really good looking slash line, but he hasn't really forced the issue in the way that you would want someone to force the issue. Like if it was like 300, but he had nine homers, then I think that's like we're kind of having a different conversation here. But again, we're gonna see him at some point in the majors. Is it May? Is it June? Is it whenever? Who's to say?

SPEAKER_00

So let me just say I think this is best case scenario because it's they want Bryce to be like a hundred percent ready when he gets that call. They don't ever want to send him back down. So this is best case scenario, I think, because you have a guy who is giving you that production in that spot, and you have that, and you're also letting Bryce play every single day, he's playing every single day, like he's not taking days off, he's playing six days a week there in triple A. He's getting a ton of reps. So I think it's worked out about as well as I could have imagined at the start of the year, and we'll see him at some point this year. He he's been very, very good for a 21-year-old in that league. Um, there's just another step for him to take.

SPEAKER_01

So you're telling me that a 21-year-old major league baseball or player uh is not a fully developed product. Is that what you're telling me, Pavs?

SPEAKER_00

And people just I think we've made this point a lot, and I hope people just have a full understanding of this. Like, this is one you cannot screw up and just like make sure he's ready, make sure the environment is right. And one thing I uh maybe you had this conversation with Giants people maybe about two, three weeks ago. I know I started to ask the Bryce question, and one thing I heard was there was a little bit of wariness of like, you want to call him up when the rest of the team's swumping and be like, hey, 21-year-old, come and save us. Like, that's a really tough spot to put him in. So um, yeah, I think this has worked out very well for them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I remember one of the topics when you know the added arise, they add beters. You know, now you know, whenever he gets into this lineup, there's not gonna necessarily be that pressure. But to your point, like if he if the rest of the offense is slumping, like it's gonna be like whether it's fair or not, a lot of this fan base is gonna say, Hey, come save us, and that's kind of gonna be the natural, you know, point. And you know, if he hits, he hits, then sure. But you know, if he slumps, then it's kind of gonna be like, hey, Bryce, you were supposed to do X, Y, and Z. So, like we like both of us said, we're gonna see him at some point in the majors when that point comes, that is to be determined. So, talked about Bryce, talked about Devers, talked about the bullpen. Pals, I'm gonna turn it over to you. What are some other parts of this first month of the season that have really caught your attention for the better, for the worse, for the middle, whatever you want to call it?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think Tony's gonna be a conversation point every single day. And you know, early on, I know there was some I heard a couple times from people who are like, why do you write about this specific like bullpen management move or this or that? And I'm like, he's the biggest story of this season. Like, we might forget it at times because other stuff happens, but the biggest story is Tony Vitello, and I think there were a few stumbles early, and I think he's actually done a really nice job overall in his first month. Um, the bullpen management has been better than I expected. He I would play Christian Coss a little bit more, just to be fair to him. But in general, I think he's done a pretty good job. I think he's been pretty reactive. Like, I'm curious to see what the lineup looks like on Tuesday and and what he does with Jung Hu and things like that. But um, I think he's pushed some good buttons early on, and so that's one thing that stands out with Tony. Um, what else? What else? Oh, someone asked me this this morning on Twitter. They sent me a mailbag question for the pod. They're like, Why aren't they running? And I'm like, Well, I think we have this conversation every year. They're just not this is not a roster. No matter how many different front office people, how many coaches, how many first base coaches, how many running guys you bring in, like this roster is not built for it, which is disappointing because they're still not there. Um, maybe we have to wait for Joshua to get here, and that'll finally be what changes it. Yeah, that that has stood out to me as well that this is still pretty similar to um to where we've seen in the past where the athleticism's not there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's something I remember last year where like I think Jung Hoo had like three steals in April, and I was kind of like, oh, like is this finally gonna happen? Because he didn't really do it that much in 2024, and then it was kind of returned to norm, and you can kind of say that about the majority of this team. I will say though, Luisa Rise, four steals on four attempts. His career high last year was 11. But it is interesting now because of in the pitch clock era and with the the new rules that you know with the pickoff rule, and they're not really new that new anymore. Um, but we saw Juan Soto last year almost have a 40-40 season, and he's like first percentile sprint speed. So, yeah, this team isn't like you look up and down this line up, like obviously Rafi Devers is not going to give you anything steals-wise, like Patrick Bailey might every once in a while steal one, but you do you look at the roster, and there are guys with like decent athleticism, like Jung Hu, Elliott, Matt Chapman, William Adamas. Like, you would think like between those guys, like 10 steals at the minimum kind of shouldn't be that big of an ask, especially because of the ways that you can game it now. But I don't know, I just don't it's one of those things where it's like teams have like different identities, and like I just don't identify the Giants as a team that's going to run going forward. And to the point about Christian Coss, I was kind of joking about this, but I did look at the math. I was kind of wondering like how many more plate appearances would Devers have to take, and how few would Coss have to take for the the number per plate appearances to match up. And it's like it's getting with every passing day that Koss doesn't play, it's getting like instrumentally close. I I think we could for Tony could probably find a couple more spots to get Cost in the line because I know he did play on Sunday, but it kind of feels like five days will go by and we just don't see him at all.

SPEAKER_00

I think more than five. So yeah, that'd be my one quibble with him a little bit is I I would have used the bench a little bit more, but he's also I've asked this question, I know he's trying to pay respect to his veterans. Um, to your point about the stolen bases, Luis Rayas has four, Patrick Bailey has two, Casey Schmidt has one, and Jared Oliva has one. So the entire rest of this roster, which look, they're not burners, but like Matt Chapman's a pretty good base runner, Elliot Ramos is a good athlete. Um Bader was hurt, Junkou Lee hasn't run at all. He's actually not as fast as people think, but um, yeah, it's it's uh it is it just stood out to me because it is a conversation that I I think like three off seasons, three off seasons in a row we had with Farhan. And then like Buster comes in and he's like, I want to be more like how we used to be. And Bob Melvin comes in and he's like, you know, stolen base, old school baseball. Um, and then this new staff comes in, and I think we talked to Tony in the spring about being more aggressive, and they have new base running coaches and some new players, and it's like, nope, same old Giants, gonna be 29th or 30th in stolen bases.

SPEAKER_01

29th or 30th or stolen bases indeed. Uh I kind of want to circle back to Tony before we wrap up here. But you know, to your point, you know, there he did have a couple stumbles early on, like after the second game of the season when they get shut out back-to-back games, putting it on his shoulders, and like Robbie Ray and Elliot Ramos are like, yeah, like we appreciate it, but like we're fine, like we're we're major leaguers. Um, there's probably a couple other things just over this first month that that they're not coming to mind. But I think overall, like I think it is easy for us to your point, like kind of forget that this is going to be the story of the season. But I think the last maybe like week and a half, two weeks, it kind of has been a little easy for Get because he's kind of just acclimated to being a major league manager and you know that he's deployed the bullpen well. He hasn't had, I guess, as many like super viral clips. Um, I think his answers are still pretty lengthy, like the the postgame can still go lengthy, but I think he's as he learns this team, I think they're getting a little more concise, they're getting a little more informative. And you know, the I think there is just gonna still be that lingering question of just how is this gonna go? Because it is it's an experiment. This is something that's never been done. But I think the more we've gotten into this season, I I don't know if this is the gauge you've gotten, but it just feels like he's acclimated pretty well to the major league job. And I think the one point that I kind of want to hammer home is that the guy knows ball. Like I think that was never a concern, but I think a lot of people were like, what does he know about the major league game? Like, it's baseball is baseball, it's just all the other ancillary stuff that comes with it, and there is a lot of other ancillary stuff that comes with this role.

SPEAKER_00

He knows baseball and he works really hard, and he I don't know if there's a manager in the game right now who loves baseball more than Tony does. I you know, we he's a we're around him a lot, and we see just he has like 90 free seconds, and he's like, I'm gonna play catch with Jace Tingler just because I get to play catch on a big league field. Like I or I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go stand in against uh, you know, two of my Williadamas and Matt Chapman are getting their arms loose. I'm gonna go pretend to be a left-handed hitter and give him a little like fake strike zone. Um, yeah, he loves baseball. I think he's he's the ultimate like base. This is like a term of endearment, but like baseball rat, like he's like he's he's this is his entire life. Um, we asked him what he did on the off day, and he's like, I was at the ballpark. So now he did sneak into Chappelle later that night, but like for the most part at the ballpark. So yeah, I think there's a lot of that coming through. And um I you know, there's I can't think of too many things. Like when you talk about like what has Tony messed up, and if you're just talking about that as any manager, like what has this guy done that I disagree with? Like, there's been a couple times where they threw Baraki out there against righties or got beat in that situation. Uh I would have played the bench a little bit more. Um, but I can't think of a whole lot that you look at and go, Well, that that was a rookie manager, so um, yeah, I think it's been pretty impressive so far. I my question is gonna be over the course of 162, and it's not my question is I think everyone asked the wrong question in the offseason. It was like, how's Tony gonna get through 162? I don't think that's a question. Like, he has the energy for this, he has the passion for it. My question is gonna be like, how does he guide a roster through 162? And one thing we've seen is like he's very aggressive with his starting pitchers, he leaves them out there. Um, you know, they're pretty regularly going early in the year, um, at or over 100 pitches. Landon's going deeper than he ever really has before. He's stretched Robbie out a little bit, Logan's doing what he does, but that would be my question is like over 162, does he look up in like July or August? Is and is like I gas some of these guys out a little bit, but that's what your depth is for. Um, and I I think he's trying to win every game, and so yeah, nothing really stands out from that perspective. I I think what stands out to me most about Tony is the conversations about Tony. And I I know I said like he's gonna be a big talking point, but it seems like people are very eager one way or the other to you know, we see the tweets, we see the the clips from other shows. We see the clips people send out. It seems like people are very eager just to to jump on every single opportunity they have to have a big moment out of everything, and I'm like, he's just kind of been pretty normal day to day. Like he gives very long answers, but other than that, like if you if you didn't know any better, you'd think this guy was a bench coach for the last five years in Atlanta or something, and and here he comes and he gets his shot.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna put you on the spot here. What's your favorite quote that he's fired off since he took the job? There's there's one that comes to mind instantly.

SPEAKER_00

There's one he said in spring training, but it was off the record, and it was a group setting, which I think maybe you remember.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe that's the one I'm thinking of.

SPEAKER_00

Um I don't know that it was ever written that. It's not anything crazy, but it was just a funny quote. Um I I think my favorite moment was probably uh the funniest for me was probably when he mentioned Tiger Woods and then caught himself right away and was like, oops, uh probably not the not the best time. Tony's very self-aware about this. He rambles, like he just goes, and you you never know where it's gonna go. And I'm watching even I didn't cover Sunday's game, but I'm watching postgame and just like a little straight shot at Drew Gilbert, like just decided to take a shot at him. So uh yeah, I think it's been it they've been interesting postgames. I'll say that. And we've cut down from 16 minutes to like eight, so I think everyone all involved has we've adjusted, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I will say too, just because he mentions you know something that's kind of quirky does not necessarily mean it's gonna be like the next big like whoa moment. Like sometimes he just says stuff, not every not everything's gotta be uh a soundbite. I also want to say so. Of the managers that you've covered, has anyone hit more fungos than him? Because I can't I can't imagine that Bochi was getting after it like the way that Tony is.

SPEAKER_00

So I asked Bochi this actually in spring training, and he said he was like kind of taken aback. He's like, No, I did. I just you got me when you when I was like 60. So uh he's like, no, early Bochi in in San Diego, he's like, I was doing all this stuff. Um, but I I've since then I've covered Bochi and Gabe Kapler, who was Gabe would throw BP every once in a while, but um was not hitting fungos as much. And and Bob Melvin, who was, you know, again, like Bob was hitting those fungos 30 years ago, probably. So um, yeah, it's the young energy. Um I think you see that everywhere. So it's uh I have no doubt his battery is gonna stay up during the course of the year, and he's gonna be this way after games and before games and all that, which by the way, we love like it's it's lengthy sometimes, but I think it's it's entertaining. Um and again, he's very self-aware about like, yeah, I it's my favorite. I guess my when you ask, like, what's funny? I there's a lot of quiet like things at the end of answers where he goes, like, I ran out the clock on that one, or like, yeah, he's like, I don't know if I answered your question at all after two and a half minutes of speaking. Like, those are the ones that always stick out to me.

SPEAKER_01

For sure. And you know, I did I was kind of curious, like, were we gonna was he consistently gonna have like these lengthy answers? No, like as we got into the season, and to your point, he is not slowed down at all. So we'll see what the answers are like in August. But to this point, he is not slowed down at all. Uh, last thing I want to leave you with. Uh, what do you want to fight me on next? What what's the next sabermetric battle that we're gonna fight?

SPEAKER_00

I'm not trying to be the boomer fighting uh I just saw a tweet about Mason Miller's negative FIP and was like, this is uh yeah, I think that would be that would be my main one. I I still think I'm right on both of these, which is my other one is when you see traffics with all red, and it's like, we'll get this guy, and it's like, oh, he gave it four runs.

SPEAKER_01

So uh the TJ stuff that one, yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree with that one.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I saw one the other day of Tywe Malley after the Dodgers start, which was like, nothing here is really impressive, but pitched really well against the Dodgers. And I'm like, okay, thank you for the contribution to our uh conversation about Tyler Malley. So I don't know, we'll find something over the course of the year.

SPEAKER_01

We'll for sure find something over the course of the year. Last actual real question, uh, I'm obviously in Philly right now. Favorite cheesesteak in Philly. Hmm. You can't say the visiting clubhouse.

SPEAKER_00

Can't say the mini cheesesteaks in the press box because you can pop like 50 of those. That's a that's that's a fair one. We'll take it. I think they're from like Trader Joe's actually, but um, favorite cheesesteak. There's a place I don't, I'm horrible with names. There's a place outside of the city where I went one time. Um they actually this is gonna sound great. They actually have a really good cheesesteak at the ballpark. So it's if you go out to center field, I don't remember the name of the place, but it's really good. I think it's called like Chicky and Pete's. There's something out there, but there's a good cheesesteak at the ballpark. I've done it a couple times. And they have it in the press box for us, usually once a series.

SPEAKER_01

Top three press dining in baseball?

SPEAKER_00

Top one, and it's not even close. Top one and it's not even close. Number one. It's always been number one, it is number one. It is it is cheaper than a lot of the other ones, including one that we go to regularly. Um, it's number one.

SPEAKER_01

I might have to do my my own edition of Alex Seats when I'm out there for the press box. But Alex was a lot of fun. Thank you for taking the time as always. And uh next time I'm in the press box, uh, I will have a chocolate old-fashioned for you.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, okay. Say hi to Frank, the uh the ice cream guy for me.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, sir. Thank you, Alex. I'm now joined by one of the two B reporters that covered the Philadelphia Phillies for the Athletic. But before that, she was an intern at the San Francisco Chronicle where we had an opportunity to chronicle the A's final season in Oakland. Charlotte Varnes, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_03

Thanks for having me. Excited to be here amid all the chaos happening in Philly today.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, Charlotte, we got a lot, we got so much to talk about. Like, this is what I like. We were I kind of asked you, like, when I was preparing for this, I was like, Do you think something's gonna happen? Like, when should we do this? Because I originally pitched Monday, and you were like, eh, probably Monday might not be a good time. And I wake up to the news that Rob Thompson is not the manager, Don Manningly is now the acting manager. Um, I have a script for the people watching. I have it's right here. This is what I wrote last night on the plane. We're gonna kind of ad lib this. So, Charlotte, just take us through everything that's happening with the Phillies right now, why Rob, why this is the time for him to go, why Don Manningly was the choice, and just where they go from here.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, the Phillies obviously just lost 10 games in a row. I was present, I think, for about like seven or eight of them. And I mean, it's it's there's trouble on all fronts. The offense just looks totally lifeless, which feels very weird after watching them last year. It's the same core group of players, and all of a sudden they're just not hitting the guys who should be hitting at the top of the lineup have struggled a little bit, although Storber and Harper have looked all right. Then you don't, Allie Bohm is literally the worst qualified hitter in baseball right now. Brayson Stodd has looked really bad. So when you don't, the guys at the top of the lineup are not at their best, you don't have the guys at the bottom of the lineup really helping them. There's that, there's the starting pitching, which has had horrible, horrible be-bip luck. I mean, you can't chalk everything up to luck, obviously, but Aaron Nola has just not looked great. Zach Wheeler looked promising in his first outing. His Luzardo has the worst ERA among all starting pitchers right now. Like it's everything's gone wrong on that end. And then you add in the bullpen where Juwan Duran is out. You have a couple more injuries, the guys who were pretty good last year. Taylor Banks has not been great to start the year. Tim Mesa looked really good at the beginning of the season, has been pretty bad. So there's sort of trouble all over. I didn't even mention defense. Defense has not looked good. You're just having this perfect storm of issues. And someone was going to have to take the phone for that. And it ended up being Rob. You can argue that it was not Rob's fault. He can't make the hitters hit. Obviously, they someone, the Phillies, felt like they needed to make a change. So they chose Rob. I mean, the the hitting coach could have been under consideration as well. The they've just been not hitting lefties at all. That it's been a real problem this year. They're 0 and 10 against lefties starters. They're hitting like, I don't know the exact number, but I want to say their OPS is like 500 or less against lefties right now. It's pretty bad. There's just, it's trouble all over. And as for the interim they chose, I can't speak to why they chose Don because Dusty Waton, the third base coach, obviously would have been a great decision as well. He's also been interviewed for manager jobs in the past. So that's a question I have today is why they chose Don, especially with his. Relationship with GM Preston Mattingley. That'll be really interesting to cover. But yeah, I don't know where things go from here. I think they feel like this is salvageable, especially with how strong this core group was last season. But they've dug themselves a really big hole. It feels very hard to imagine them playing at the clip they need to to just dominate the rest of the season. But I don't know. We'll see where things go from here.

SPEAKER_01

They can't hit, they can't starting pitch, they can't bullpen pitch, they can't play defense. Uh they're nine and nineteen, they fire their manager. But aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like I thought you, I didn't think you were exaggerating, but like I dug into the numbers last night and I was just like, oh my, like they're second to the second fewest runs of the majors, like third highest ERA, and then like even if you break it into starting pitching and bullpen, it's just it's just all bad. Um, I'm pretty sure I think I saw that this is like the first manager GM pairing that is also father and son, which I guess that's like a kind of cool side note in all this, although it does does take kind of like a perfect storm of things of not great things happening for this to happen. But um naturally the question that I too want to ask from here is Alex Korra was fired, I think two days ago at this point. Like, are you are you aware if there was any conversations with bringing in Korra as the manager? Was it too soon? Like, what do you like was that a consideration as well?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, the Athletic reported, and I think Bob Nightingale had it first, that they talked to Korra and essentially offered him the job first, and he chose to spend time with his family rather than bringing him in. And I feel like bringing an external hire at this point of the season would be a little difficult as well. I don't know, it seems like Cora might be willing to sit out the 2026 season, and then obviously there's going to be a ton of interest in him this winter, but I mean it's well known he and Dave have super tight relationships. So he might have declined right now, but I feel like that doesn't put an end to the speculation that maybe he manages the Phillies in the future.

SPEAKER_01

How do you think he would fit, you know, hypothetically as a manager for this? Like assuming like the majority of this core is going to be back for 2027, and who's to say what this team looks like in 2027? I know we're talking about the present, but you you mentioned the relationship that he has with Aiden Browski. Just how do you think he would fit as the manager of this team if that was to you know come together at some point?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, he obviously knows how to manage superstars. He did that the year the Red Sox won the World Series. I feel like he'd be really good on that front. He's managed Kyle Schwarber as well. Um, I think that's really helpful. But I think for me, like the Phillies have really valued continuity during this run. I mean, very, very few coaches have departed. They made like one coaching change this winter, basically. So I think like I'm curious how this core group responds to the coaching group that's been together since this 2022 run, maybe being broken up this winter and the coaches going elsewhere. So I think that's my big question mark, but I feel like Alex Korra would be a good fit in terms of how he's been able to manage and deal with superstars because this roster has a lot of them. And that that's not an easy thing to be doing, dealing with a lot of superstars and managing personalities on top of making lineup decisions. But I feel like he's done that in the past, and that could bow well for him being in Philly.

SPEAKER_01

It's interesting because the last two times that the Phillies have fired a manager, it's come in the middle of the season, and naturally, you know, the results are the results, and you know, it's not unheard of for a decision of this magnitude to spark a team. But you know, as you're kind of digesting this, like one, did you think that this is the move that was gonna be making? And two, like, do you think that, you know, with this core group of guys in particular, like this was kind of the spark they needed, or is it kind of a little bit of a question mark on your end of like, why was Rob kind of the guy to go?

SPEAKER_03

I think it's a question mark. I think I came into Monday feeling like they were gonna make a decision. I didn't know if it was gonna be Rob or it was going to be Kevin Long, the hitting coach. I think Kevin Long the hitting coach is a little obviously they they could have made the decision to fire him, but he has very good relationships with Schwarber, Turner, and Harper, all predating the time of the Phillies. I mean, Kevin Long, like, give him a lot of credit. He's like set Schwarber on the path of becoming one of the best left-on-left hitters in baseball. You can argue that Schwarber may not have had the year he had last year without Kevin Long. So I think that would be a very hard decision to make in season. I think Rob is, I think Rob just ended up taking the fall for what's been happening so far. I think he, again, with the continuity, I think they also really valued Rob. It's just a very steady hand, a steady presence. And I think you can say that Don will be the same way. Dusty, if they had elevated him, will be the same way. And Dusty's now the bench coach, so he's gonna have more of a say as well. I think this whole group just sort of has the steady hand. And to me, I think that's why it's sort of a question mark going forward. Because yeah, maybe it is a spark that you fire the manager and like really like light of fire under the players, but like uh at the same time, you can't. I I really have a hard time seeing that Dust, your Dawn, is going to operate differently than Rob did. They're all very steady presences, have been in the game a very long time. I just I I don't I don't know how much this move is going to change things unless it pro serves as a motivator for the players, but that's TBD.

SPEAKER_01

So usually the question that I ask different beat reporters at the very end of the segment is what are the things, what's the thing you're most curious about with your team? So I'm gonna ask that question now. Just with this fire, like you know, with the coaching staff being shaken up a little bit, uh what are you most curious about like going forward? Because there's like a I would imagine there's a lot of different angles. Like, obviously, like there's the element of how do the Phillies perform going forward. Like, is that it? Or is there like a specific element of this new dynamic that you're curious to see unfold over the course of the season?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I I mean I'm curious to get to know Don Mattingley. I just feel like I feel like he's described himself in the past as really like a servant, and I feel like you can see that in the way he acts. Like he I you don't really see him a lot other than when he's working on the field, he kind of sticks to himself, and obviously we're going to be engaging with him twice a day now, and he obviously has been a manager in the past. So I'm curious to like get to know Don and see how his leadership sort of changes things, if at all. And I mean, yeah, in general, I just curious how they respond to this because I just I feel like I don't know. I think the question is, is this 2022 or is this 2012? And Jason Stark just wrote a column on this for the athletic. And I mean, 2022, this sort of change in May ended up propelling the Phillies to a World Series run. But you can argue the Phillies right now have dug themselves a deeper hole than they were in at that time, and circumstances are different. And then I think Joe Girardi and Rob Thompson had very different styles of management, whereas I don't think Don Mattingley is that different from what Ra offered. So I think, yeah, I think that's the big question is is this the end for this core? Is this this window closing, which just feels sort of incomprehensible given the extensions they signed this winter and given how well some of these guys played last year? Or is this going to light a fire under them? I think that is the big question going forward.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe that's the winning formula. Maybe the formula is just fire the manager and you go to a World Series after that. Who's to say? And with Don Manningly in particular, Giants fans will know this is far from his first game uh managing against San Francisco Giants, obviously the former manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers, in addition to the Miami Marlins as well. Uh let's get into the team, the team itself, because if the if the opposite was true, if the mark if the Phillies were 19 and 9, uh Rob Thompson would still have a job. And you mentioned everything that's kind of going on with this team, but the one part that's super confounding with me is the pitching. Because mainly from the perspective that you mentioned the Babit luck, I think they have the highest Babip in the majors. And you know, just to rattle off some numbers for the audience, they're the third worst ERA in baseball, it's 513. The 390 FIP is 20th. Um, they're but they're also eighth in strikeout to walk ratio. And when you look at some of the guys on this staff, like yes, they lost Ranger Suarez, but you also have Jesus Lazardo, Christopher Sanchez, and Andrew Payne are slated for this series. Luzardo in particular, he has a 6.91 ERA, but a 324 FIFA, a 395 Babip. Just what have you made of this starting core in particular at? Because it does seem they're nowhere near to what their ceiling could be as a group.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. It it's been pretty puzzling. I just think Sanchez and Luzardo, especially, both were given even further. Sanchez was further extended over the winter. Luzardo got his extension. I mean, they're not pitching near their potential, and it feels very weird to say that about Christopher Sanchez. I've said this to the several people. It's like, it feels very weird to be like, this is not quite what Christopher Sanchez could be doing because he's like, he's been really good. He only really got knocked around last game against the Cubs. He let up, I think his last two previous two outings were both against the Cubs and they kind of knocked him around a little bit. And but it just it just the stuff has not felt as sharp as it's been in the past. The changeup is getting hit a little bit more. Vila was down like minimally on a sinker. I don't even know if that's enough to like sort of excuse what's been happening. And Luzardo, like, I I don't know. Luzardo has shown like he earlier in the season, 11 strikeouts against the Rockies in Colorado and six and two thirds. The Phillies are still chasing that. I to me that's one of the biggest things with the Phillies is like they haven't had anyone go seven innings this season. That six and two thirds was the highest. And it's just like when you already have a tax bullpen, it's not good. So I don't know. I'm just I'm curious. Luzardo's a very emotional guy. I know last year he sort of got the best of him in parts of the second half of the season. I remember at the time he was like, I just decided I'm done with that. I'm not gonna let it affect me anymore. And watching him pitch, it sort of feels like you see that emotion. Like he is always last summer, he had some problems out of the stretch. And when you watch him this year, he sort of had it's looked like the same issues in terms of how he's been able to handle it and just remain composed at that time. So to me, that's interesting to see how he's able to come out of that again. And yeah, Andrew Painter is someone I've written about a lot because he was in AAA last year. I mean, he I don't know, you could argue that's part of the reason Rob got fired. He left Painter in on Sunday. Yeah, it was Sunday, and he just got totally knocked around by the Braves, even though it could have been the best outing of his young career. And he instead left him in, and Michael Harris just got a hit off him and it totally turned the tide of the game. And yeah, so I I have a lot of questions about the rotation because I think these are like really great pitchers. I just they're they're not pitching to their potential, which is just it's been really weird to watch. Even even Nola, like I you can argue no Aaron Nola's not what he once was, but I just is he this bad? I don't think he is.

SPEAKER_01

One guy that the Giants aren't gonna see this series and that the Phillies haven't seen this year at all, is Zach Wheeler. Just what's the latest on him as he's recovering from what was his injury again? It's escaping me off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_03

He had vascular thoracic outlet syndrome. So if there's a good TOS, he had the good TOS, meaning not the nerve kind. Um, so yeah, he had his rib removed last September, and triple A outings and double A were like all right. Like he had some good ones, velocity was just not there, and then all of a sudden he's like basically ripping 95 against the Braves on Saturday, which was super promising. But like knowing Zach, I think he left a little bit in the tank during those minor league outings. Um yeah, he looked really good. Like he the Phillies finally won that game. Of course, it was Zach Wheeler who snapped him out of the 10-game losing streak. But yeah, I mean, he's not quite what he once was. I think he could definitely still get there, but he it was really promising what he showed on Saturday.

SPEAKER_01

You mentioned Alec Bohm, and you know, obviously the offense is what the offense is. And when it comes to personal lives, like I typically try to stay away from that territory, like it's personal for a reason, but I think it's a little hard to just completely cast that off to the side given the public nature of what's happening. And I think you would mention there's kind of new developments in what is happening with his parents. Just what's the latest on well? Actually, can you just provide like the larger context of what has happened, you know, maybe what is the latest on that situation with his parents?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, on March 25th, so right before opening day, Alex sued his parents for basically accusing them of financial mismanagement, saying that he he alleged that they'd taken some money from him over the years, mismanaged his accounts, etc. And so the news breaks during the game on opening day because during the game? Yeah, it was pretty crazy because the inquirer has obviously like newspapers have court reporters who their whole job is to look at stuff and they'd found it was not published until during the game. And yeah, it things have sort of unfolded from there. Basically, his Alec asked for his legal team asked for an injunction a few weeks ago, basically, to um get his parents to give$528,000 back to him, or maybe$518. It's like over$500K that they had taken that Alec is accusing them of using for a legal war chest. And since then, the latest developments were a couple days ago, or yesterday, his parents filed some just official stuff with the court, just essentially like saying they oppose the injunction and they're trying to get the dispute moved to arbitration court in Florida because a lot of this has to do with LLCs. They found it on Alec's behalf. And in the operating agreements of those LLCs, it allegedly says that this needs to be handled in arbitration court. Alec and his legal team allege that he was not quite aware of what he was signing when he signed those operating agreements. So there's sort of that dispute. But essentially, the parents' legal team is saying that Pennsylvania is not the right venue for this just because Alec is Florida resident, his parents were Nebraska residents, now Florida residents. Like they're just saying Pennsylvania is not the right place. So it's a lot of legalese, but ultimately is a very sad situation. I mean, lawyers always say you never want to see the same last name versus each other in court. Um, so yeah, and I it's hard to say how much it's affecting him on the field. He again, he like I said before, he's the worst qualified hitter in baseball right now. Um, but yeah, I I it's just it's people around him on the team, like the hitting coach told me last week, he's like Alec has really kept his wits about him. Rob before he was fired was like in the past, you'd see Alec get really frustrated. We're not really seeing that at this moment in time. Like he's a guy who's like really worn his heart on his sleeve, and he's not doing that right now. And I mean that's I get for better or for worse with everything going on in his life. But yeah, that that's sort of been going on in the background. And it's for this to drop yesterday, as soon as I saw it, I was like, if we write something on this right now, someone's gonna get fired, and then we're all gonna have all of this happening at the same time. And that and that has happened. It's just yeah, it's a sad situation.

SPEAKER_01

Sad situation indeed, and obviously just hoping the very the best for Alec. It's obviously just not a fun situation to deal with. Uh, Charlotte, I think we need to talk about something positive. It's a lot of negativity happening in Philadelphia right now. So I'm gonna I'm gonna point you, mentioned Andrew Painter. I also want to give uh kind of bring Justin Crawford into this, obviously, the son of Carl Crawford. They were two guys that really impressed me during the when the Giants, or not the Giants, when the Phillies rather were in San Francisco. Painter didn't have the greatest outing in the world, but you can kind of see the glimpses of what he could do. Same thing with Justin Crawford. Just what have your impressions been of those two going forward and maybe how kind of how their timeline's a little different, you know, considering this is a veteran core, but maybe how they can inject some maybe you know much needed young, you know, life into this team.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, yeah, talk about that outing in San Francisco. It's almost like a little bit similar to what you did in Atlanta, where I think Raw was trying to sort of give him the opportunity to learn. And unfortunately, as matters have spiraled for the Phillies, so giving him those opportunities to learn just have not been great for the team amid everything else going on. But yeah, I mean, he is a guy who like he was probably the top pitching prospect in the sport like four years ago. And he went through a really, really hard year at AAA last year. Things spiraled, he like could not really throw his change up the whole year. It he was frustrated, and it's looked a lot better in the majors. I mean, the fact he's not he's really only getting knocked around like a later in outings, he's looked really good so far. And I I feel very I don't I don't know. I think people are too hard on him. I think, well, this is a really tough market to play in A. The circumstances are really tough, B, but I don't know. I think there are a lot of fans who have like sometimes been, I'm out on Andrew Painter. And I'm like, I totally disagree with that because he's a rookie, like, not everyone's gonna be Paul Skeens and light the world on fire. The vast majority of people are not Paul Skeens. And I think the way Painter's been talked about over the years, people were sort of expecting that right away. And I mean, like his debut was phenomenal. I think he struck out seven or eight, like it was a great game. He showed glimpses of that again. I think people just have need to have a little more patience, but during a tough time, it can be easy to point fingers at him as well. And I mean, Justin's really fun to watch play. I mean, he hits the ball on the ground a lot, but he he's just been, I think, very helpful at the bottom of the lineup. I feel like he's in a spark and been helpful with getting on base. And yeah, he has not stolen a lot of bases. I want to say he's only stolen two so far, and he stole like a lot in the miners last year. So I think like that's been a question for me is how much they're giving him the green light when you have guys like Turner and Schwarber, etc. hitting behind him. Um, yeah, so I I've been pleasantly surprised by what I've seen from Justin so far. Cause I think a lot of people coming into the season were like, we don't know how this is gonna go. Cause like he is like a big babip guy, but insane be bip numbers last year, but it's it's worked so far.

SPEAKER_01

Charlotte, last question I want to leave you with. What do you miss most about the bay?

SPEAKER_03

Oh, I missed the views. Oh my god. I was talking to um someone in the Phillies last week. We were like talking about best cities to run in, and you'll get this as a runner. And someone they were like breaking San Francisco low, and I'm like, you've gotta go. I'm like, if you're staying in San Francisco, you've gotta go just go to the Presidio, like Uber there and run there. And they're like, person was like complaining to me about like running near the stadium, and I'm like, that also is like not that bad. Like running on the embarcadero is like fine, but I'm beautiful. I know. I'm like, why are you complaining? But yeah, I think the views, it's I I love Philly. We don't have that natural beauty here though.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm not I'm not rattling off a run today. I got I gotta finish recording this and editing this, but I did just buy some uh some Nike Pegasus and I will be breaking them out on the Rocky Steps. I will, I'm gonna I'm gonna have my moment, but as far as like, well, actually, I think Jordan Bastion would have something to say about that because he's he's ran all over this city.

SPEAKER_03

Uh, yeah, he was just here. I should have asked him.

SPEAKER_01

He he was running by like some park, and I'm like, dude, where are you? Like, that's nowhere near the city. He's like eight miles out. Uh, I'm sure we'll have him on the podcast at some point. But Charlotte, this is a lot of fun. I'll see you in the press box in a couple hours. Where can we find your work?

SPEAKER_03

You can find me at theathletic.com. And I also have my own podcast called Down on the Farm, which is about Philly's prospects.

SPEAKER_01

Check out the Athletic, check out Down on the Farm. Charlotte, this is a lot of fun. See you in a couple.

SPEAKER_03

Yep. See you soon.