Splash Considerations Ep. 25: Messages from the All-Stars (feat. John Shea)

In Episode 25 of Splash Considerations, Justice is joined once again by John Shea of the San Francisco Standard (@JohnSheaHey) to discuss Logan Webb and Luis Arraez's selection to the 2026 NL All-Star team, Casey Schmitt continuing to impress and Shea's recent story about Shawn Estes and Rich Aurilia.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Welcome to another episode of Slash Considerations. My name is Justice Del Santo, San Francisco Jazz New Reporter for the Bay Area News Group, San Jose Mercury News, East State Times, whatever you want to call us, as long as you read, as long as you subscribe. And speaking of subscribe, subscribe to the YouTube channel. Follow us on Apple, follow us on Spotify. A lot of things in this world cost a lot of money, but subscribing and following, those things remain free 99 in just a moment of your time. And I'm joined now. Hemi not be an all-star on the field, but he certainly is with the pen. John Shea of the San Francisco Standard. Welcome back to the show. Hey, what's up, Justice? How you doing, Shay? What's new? What's that? What's happening?

SPEAKER_01 1:08

I'm good. Um, not much different. Just another person who blows the save in the ninth or the eighth, or whatever you want to call it. But it's the same result and just a different game plan every day. It's just must be maddening for the players, must be maddening for the fans, obviously, the coaching staff. Because there's so many winnable games. I don't know if they'd be 500, but but they'd be a lot closer to 500 if they had a bullpen to close out these close games that they you know, they might be up a run, they might be up a couple runs, but in the end, they're always down. And it's it's it's it's just amazing. Never seen anything like this.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

The bullpen, famously something that we have never talked about on this show and probably will never talk about again. So a subject that's never come up on the show. But Shay, we obviously have a couple all-stars to discuss, but before getting into the current all-stars, I see the Dusty Baker book behind you. He made a couple all-star appearances in his day. How's how's the book? And if you know, let's let's just start here. What are what are some stories you can share about Mr. Dusty Baker, potential future Hall of Famer next year?

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Well, I just remember, I mean, I was there his five years as a coach, and I was there throughout uh his whole time, 10 years as a manager, beginning in 93, and obviously grew up watching him play. But Dusty came in in 93 and won 103 games. The new ownership, Barry Bond showed up, but otherwise, it was virtually the same team that lost darn near 90 games the year before, and the fans thought everybody was going to be gone at the end of the season because uh Bob Lurry had sold the team to Florida interest, and that fell through with the National League owner Bill White and National National uh National League President Bill White and all the owners who voted against uh that sale. So Dusty came in and just revived everything. And if you look at his career, the Cubs, the the uh the Nationals, the Astros, um, the rest, all those teams need fixing as soon as he showed up for whatever reason. And obviously, in this last go-round with Houston, they need fixing because they had terrible PR and they got busted for all the sign stealing and the whole scandal. And then Dusty can't came back in and brought like normalcy and adulthood to the room and won it all. So that's his loan championship, but he was probably going to be a Hall of Famer regardless. And this book comes out at a cool time. And I visited Marcus Books in Oakland to do a story on Dusty, and it's the oldest uh African American-owned bookstore in the country, and it was really cool. And the audience just dug him the uh ambiance, the whole setting there was fabulous, and so I wrote about that and I hung out, and uh he made five or six different stops in Northern California to market the book. Um, but he uh Dusty, unlike any other manager I've covered, and you know, Bochi's won three titles, and Felipe is is is a god in the game, and going back to Roger Craig and across the bay with Tony LaRussa, all the way up, uh, all the managers they've had uh through the Moneyball years and beyond. And Dusty is the one guy who at game time might turn around and pose for a picture or sign an autograph or wave to a fan, and he knows like every security guy by name, and every vendor or concession guy he's come across, he remembered, and he might go across the street to have a drink, and he doesn't blow off anybody, he'll smooe with anyone, and he's just such a likable guy and um very inspirational for all the classes, uh, all the races, uh, all of the all the different kinds of fans that look up to him. And you don't you don't hear negative words about him from players who uh previously played for him, and that's kind of a testament to who he was, and you know, his leadership and pretty much everything about him, you know. He raised raised in Southern California and Northern California, so he's had a taste of everything and teammate of Hank Aaron in the deep south when he came across bigotry and racism that he had never kind of realized in California. Um Hank taught him a whole lot, and Hank Aaron's um presence is felt throughout this whole book as long, as well as his parents, his family, uh, some great tales about the Giants going back to the early years with Bonds and Will Clark and all the way up through the five teams he managed. So it's it's it's a cool book about his life, about his career. And I think we'll all be celebrating him in July of 27. He's eligible for the Hall of Fame for the first time. And if the voters do the right thing, he'll be inducted in late July of uh 2027 in a class that could include Bruce Bochi and and uh Buster Posey.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

That'll be one hell of a ceremony if it does shake out the way that it does. You mentioned uh Henry Aaron, Hank Aaron, former teammate of Dusty Baker. Another former teammate of Dusty Baker is Ron Washington. And I bring up Ron Washington because because of the work that Ron Washington has a has done with Luisa Rias, he's now an all-star. Not quite as much work with Logan Webb, but he's an all-star as well. Despite the Giants being where they were, they actually have two all-star representatives. Uh, one that was kind of a slam dunk, one that you know Webb himself said he was a little surprised by the selection. This is Webb's third career selection. This is Arrias's fourth, all with different teams. Um, whether or not this is a Jeff Samarja situation where he has a different uniform uh on the day of the game, we'll see. I don't know if that's gonna be the case. Um but Webb becomes the first giant with three straight selections since Madison Bumgarner uh arises unsurprisingly in the middle of the best career year of his career. And let's start with a rise. Your guy. Let's start, let's start right there. Um, we obviously knew what the offense was, you know, and he has had a bounce back season with the bat after two kind of down years by his standards. I think he's still second in the majors uh in batting average, but the defense is I don't want to say it's the lone reason that he's here, but the reason we're talking about this being the best year of his career is because of the defense. And hit him and Watch, I think he he referred to Wash as his grandfather, which was just very funny uh in Denver. It just feels like both of them, it's it's like the it's like the the professor that's seen everything has found has found the one challenge that is like made him rise to the occasion. I feel like though just those two have been so in sync since day one of spring training, and it's just been a lot of fun to see the fruit of both of their labor come to fruition in the form of the fourth all-star appearance for Luisa Rise.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

I think their biggest trade chip is Ron Washington. Forget these players. Is it a package deal with a rise? Oh, forget it. They can get uh they can get all-star hitters and pitchers for Ron Washington, uh, the miracle worker. I mean, really? Uh Luisa Rise is surprising on two fronts, not just his defense, but his hitting. Nobody ever wins a batting crown in this city. It's been done twice uh by two players in in the entirety of the Giants' West Coast history. It was bonds and it was Buster, but not you know, nobody else. I mean, a lot of players played here who won batting crowns elsewhere but couldn't do it here. You know, Bill Miller in Boston and Bill Madlock and Matty Alou and uh Harvey Keene and all these guys who were batting champs elsewhere, just you know, it's it's hard to hit. And Luisa Rice doesn't matter what stadium, what elements, what weather, what wind, what fog, uh, what temperature, it doesn't matter. He hits, and he doesn't have to hit it far. He just has to find holes, he has to find the grass, and he does, and the Giants will never get no hit as long as they have him in the lineup. Unfortunately, selfishly speaking, I'm pretty convinced he's gonna go at the deadline because they could get somebody for him. Now, here's the thing, Justice, and correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't in the offseason like most every front office um take a pass on this guy because he's not a modern day exit velo guy, he's not a modern day um swing path guy and all this other stuff, right? He doesn't hit the ball hard, he doesn't hit the ball far unless he triples down the line or hits one down the line and goes over the wall. But but how many of these teams who took a pass on him in the offseason will suddenly say, you know what? We were wrong, and suddenly we want him now because we have a hole at second base and he's playing defense, and the ex and vilo doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

I think part of it was the defensive element of it because you know, back when he signed with the Giants and we talked to him on the first day of spring training, he was like, I signed here because they were gonna let me play second base, and you know, even if you assume like he was gonna have a bounce back year offensively, you know, his track record at second base just wasn't good. And it it I remember I was talking to one of the Padres writers, I couldn't remember, and I think the way they described it, like the like why his defensive metrics were so bad, is like it's not gonna be the routine plays that he missed, it was gonna be the plays we're seeing him make now, like the short hops, like the ranging to his right. And I think that was, you know, if a rise's defense had always been what it had been, and you can kind of just bake in you know potential bounce back offensively, then I think most foreign offices would have been fine with a multi-year deal. But I think it was the defense that scared guys or scared teams away. And I think teams are seeing now, like, oh, like you're gonna be to play gold glove caliber. Even if a rise was like a league average hitter, like if he was just average, gold glove caliber defense will always play for a playoff contender. And so I think a lot of teams are gonna be like, hey, it it is gonna be the you know, we we pass over you in the offseason, but it's like, hey, you it's the they're sending the late night text, you still up? Are you still you still single? It's it's gonna be a bunch of those texts to the Giants front office.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

And if any GM has a sense of history going back 14 years to 2012 and the Marco Scudero trade, guy who plays second base, plays pretty good defense, but hits the ball, doesn't strike out. That's who this guy is now. And we all know what Scudero did to that team in August and September and into the playoffs, especially against St. Louis. He was a difference maker. Without him, maybe they don't win that World Series, that second of three over five years. So these trades matter, especially for the contenders. Now, um, the Giants are gonna have to figure out. I mean, it's all about pitching, right? I mean, they're they're they should be able to score runs if if Rafi Devers is going to remain with this team long term. I mean, we saw a little bit of it in Denver, and granted it was Denver, but those home runs would have been out anywhere, including San Francisco, right? You know this better than I. That would have gone into Mission Rock. Out out in 60 out of 30 ballparks, whatever. Yeah. So so it's the pitching. It's the rotation, it's the bullpen. So I I think what they got to do is just trade anybody who's tradable for pitching prospects or pitchers who are knocking on the door at AAA, and they really got to get this right because they've got to rebuild this pitching staff top and bottom. If they hold on to Logan Webb, which Buster Posey said they'll do, they'll be without Robbie Ray, their second best pitcher. So where does that leave you two through five? And who's the closer? Who are the setup guys? I mean, they could just totally revamp this bullpen and start anew. And I'm not sure uh how it could be worse than what we've seen, because without a closer, without a true setup guy, yeah, the bullpen was good in April. Okay, the ERA was good, but they weren't really closing the door all the time, especially uh over the entire first half when you look at it as a whole. So they've got a lot of work to do, and uh that includes the draft, that includes the trade deadline, that includes the offseason to just grind it out and reinvent a rotation behind Logan Webb if he's still here, and reinvent a bullpen because I'm not sure if any of these guys will be back. I I can't say, hey, he'll be back for sure, he'll be back for sure, right? Is there anybody in that bullpen you said definitely we need him next year?

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Yeah, isn't isn't it a question for sure? I mean, obviously, like the last thing that we saw of Dylan Smith wasn't great. He obviously allowed the 471 foot three-run homer to Kyle Karos, but you know, he's kind of settled into being an eighth inning guy, like the closest thing that this team has had to like a true eighth inning guy this year. Um I think Sam Henches still has a year of team control after this, too, so maybe henches. Um but then it's interesting. The one thing that's super interesting about this Giants bullpen is that the bullpen itself has not performed well. But you can also see a lot of these guys getting traded to help solidify other bullpen's now. The caveat in that is that this current bullpen is there aren't like the true leverage guys with like the proven leverage history, like like a Tyler Rogers, like a Camilla Duvall, like a Randy Rodriguez last year. Um so yeah, it's interesting. I don't know, like of the guys that are on this in this bullpen right now, I could Dylan Smith for sure, I could see in this bullpen next year, especially as a seventh, eighth inning guy. I think the stuff is really played up um since joining the Giants. But to your point, it's not it's not a lot of guys that I can definitively say, like, yeah, write this in pen. And then, you know, if we're just talking about 40 man guys, like Randy Rodriguez presumably will be back next year. So by opening day, opening day, you think? Hopefully. I mean, the he had the surgery in 2020, September 2025. Yeah, so by the time well, we don't know when opening day is gonna be, John. So that's the big caveat and all this, we don't know when it's gonna be. So I I guess if we're talking about a fan a foundation, you know, presumably Randy Rodriguez, Dylan Smith, and then you just hope that for the the sake of what we've seen over the last couple months that there can be some additions in the bullpen.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Yeah, I mean it it's the relievers are usually the easiest to obtain, to create, to bring up. And sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. The Giants were very unlucky uh with injuries and trades and just not bringing in enough new guys to make a difference in the bullpen, but you know, the rotation as well. So it it it I don't know if I've covered a team where like nobody was the closer all year, like nobody stepped up for we do we do have Caleb Killian.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

There is Caleb Killian. So is he is he the lights out closer? And has he been? Uh I don't know if lights out is the term I would use, but he's he is the closer in name.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Right. Yeah, I'm not sure it was it was the best idea to even name a name a closer. I mean, it it just seemed odd that that suddenly, hey, we got a closer now. And okay, so good for him. And hopefully, in the for the Giants' sake, you know, he evolves into somebody who could be a closer next year, or at least a valuable eighth, ninth, you know, eighth or seventh inning guy, um, you know, high leverage, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

But um another guy that gets traded at the deadline.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

So and you know, Birdsong's another guy coming off a major injury, and when he'll be available, and maybe they um ease him in as a reliever. What do you say about him? I mean, he's he was a guy that I think if healthy could have taken down the closing spot if the pitches were in the zone, if his command was there, because certainly he had the the fastball and the breaking stuff. He had everything that you wanted out of a potential closer, but he just missed the season. So that was unfortunate. But could you see him as a guy to morph in as as uh you know, I mean, they're not gonna start him off six innings, seven innings in the first week of the season, but it's a easier road, I think, to to make him a reliever at the start and give him two, three days off between outings.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

I guess it all really just depends on which way they want to go with him, and you know, not to not not to shamelessly plug John, but I did catch up with uh Hayden over at Papago in the title. You did, and that was a good story in Arizona. And the the one thing that he said was like it it's just killing him that you know he's not available to pitch. And you know, if Hayden Birdsong was healthy and he was the best version of himself, like is this Giants team still probably like 14 games under 500? Probably, but whether it was the rotation, I mean rotation or bullpen, he probably would help uh in some capacity. Unsure if he underwent the surgery, he actually underwent the surgery the day the season started for the Giants. So that probably puts him out until like at least the summer of 2027. And who knows if we are playing baseball at that point. Hopefully, uh we are playing baseball at that point. But Shay, we we we've talked about we we have talked about and have once again talked about uh the bullpen at like, but let's get some shine to Mr. Logan Webb. Third all-star appearance. Uh it was very interesting the his selection. I was personally a bit surprised. Webb himself was surprised at the selection because if you know, just objectively speaking, you know, this wasn't the caliber of season that he had in 24, 25, and even the years that he was snubbed in 22, 23. He was coming off NL Pitcher of the Month in June, which lights out he had more starts than earned runs, five starts three earned runs. And it does kind of feel like the uh they do this in you know the Oscars, the Grammys, where you know someone's been snubbed a number of times, and even though it's not necessarily their best work, we want to recognize the individuals. Like we want to so it kind of I don't know if making up for the snubs is the right way to phrase it, but you know, it does feel like in a in a vacuum, Logan Webb probably should have three all-star appearances by now, and he does. It's just you know, not maybe not necessarily the season we would have expected it to happen.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

A career appreciation award is what you're saying. I mean, he's not that old uh to garnering these.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

That's kind of how how Vitello made it sound. It's like we want to celebrate the career. And in my head, I'm like, he's only 29, he's not that old.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yeah, two more years plus a major free agent contract after that. But he's an all-star and one of the best Giants pitchers uh since they moved here in '58. Uh, he's not Marischal, and he doesn't have the rings like Lindsacum, Kane, and Bumgarner. But his FIP is right up there. And you're a big Fip fan. I know. Fip guy. And he's up there, in fact, better than most. Marischal, I think, is number one. Um it's it's just amazing what he could do without 98, right? He doesn't blow guys away, even though he led the league in strikeouts last year, which is quite amazing. And I think he's appreciated throughout the league. And correct me if I'm wrong, a rise was a player vote. And as the backup, the players voted for him. He's widely adored throughout baseball. And Logan, I think, came from the commissioner's office. So um, what does that tell you? Well, the Commissioner's office really loves the fact that he was player of the month. And I'm sure that decision was made. And correct me if I'm wrong again before that clunker in Denver the other day, because it happened the very next day. I'm sure they solidified their their their roster. And and uh I don't know. I mean, you can't say that uh more giants should have been on because they probably would have been happy with one if it was Luisa Rise. Okay, fine. You know, hey, go and celebrate and represent the Giants. But I think they were pretty lucky to have two. But but Logan Webb is is such um such a good pitcher, and these these are all-star games, and he's considered an all-star year after year after year, just as he is usually the leader in the innings in what three, four straight years, um, strikeouts last year. He gets Cy Young votes every year. He won a first gold glove last year. I mean, he's an all-around guy, he's a giant and uh well liked in the clubhouse, um, one of their few leaders. And uh obviously the commissioner's office, when they make a decision like that, um consider a lot of things. And more than ever, it's it's tougher to pull, you know, put together put together a pitching staff and an all-star lineup and an all-star uh bench because there are so many teams and each has to be representative and 15 teams in each league, and you have to have at least one guy from each. So it's so it's a puzzle at the end. And I'm sure Logan was up there with two or three other guys, um, who could have you know been deserving as well. But um, good for him. Uh he he loves it, he loves pitching, and he doesn't want to go there unless he pitches. He's actually appeared in the last couple of games, and this time I think it'll work out mathematically because he's not gonna pitch Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Yeah, and it and it's interesting because like you mentioned, like typically, you know, sometimes the way that it'll line up, you know, these guys don't actually get the opportunity to pitch, but he scheduled a pitch on Wednesday, which would put him in line uh for Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

And one of the things that he noted is that the game is Tuesday, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Yes, Tuesday. So I'm thinking of the draft.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

So yes, it would be Yeah, so sun Sunday, because he's not pitching Sunday or even Saturday, um he'll have plenty of rest for Tuesday. So Dave Roberts, uh you know, the former Giant, if he takes care of business, gonna use him. If if uh use him for five innings. No, the Giants are not a threat to the Dodgers. He can't do anything that's gonna screw the Giants this year.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

So the one thing that one of the things that Logan had mentioned in Denver, you know, upon talking about the selection is that there was, in his opinion, a couple other guys on the Giants that maybe have would have been more deserving than him, you know, given how his season started and then he hits the I. I think we talked about this before. I can't I don't know if it was you or somebody else, but this is gonna be like a fun interlude transition. Maybe this is the part we clip for the social media. One of my hottest takes is that I don't think every team should automatically get an all-star. Because that's how you get all-star pitchers with like four ERAs in the mid-fours. I think like this is maybe this is the NBA fan of me where it's like if you know if you get an all-star, it's like deserved. Like you have to be the best of the best. Not necessarily like, well, we need someone. And yeah, as you know, Shay, there are sometimes teams that don't really deserve one, and they just gotta send someone there. I don't know, where do you fall on this?

SPEAKER_01 25:58

I I think you're totally wrong. I think every team represented. Um, I'm at the 12-year-old kid is speaking to you right now. And that's fair. I think the I I just I've always loved all-star games. I try to go to one every year and uh been doing this forever. And I just remember as a kid that it was so cool to watch the lineups and the introductions on the field with every different uniform, and they've messed it up for too many years in a row when they had you know the same same jerseys, same uniforms for everybody. And nobody could tell if you're a brave or an Astro or but Tyler Keppner kind of led the battle there and said, Hey, let's get back to using actual uniforms. This isn't basketball where you need to know what color the uniform is, so you know where to pass it or who to defend. And same with football, where they back in the good Pro Bowl days, they just had the helmets. This is baseball, it doesn't matter what you're wearing. You could be skins and shirts and basketball. So, okay, you know that, but in baseball, you it doesn't matter, you got to represent your team. So finally they they turned around and and have that now. So, but I I just go back to the the coolness of watching um every team being represented, and the guy might not play, but he'll be introduced, he'll tip his cap, and uh all the hometown people will will dig that. Uh the A's were lean for many years. I think it was Justin Dukeshire, who was like an all-star a couple of times, and it's some random guy. Um and finally, look at the A's now. If the A's were in Oakland, we'd we'd be talking about this because they have two starting all-stars, Kurtz at first and Langelier's behind the plate for the American League. And so they've come a long way in in drafting, developing, and and trading uh to make that offense um productive again. Uh the pitching is awful, but um, I guess the point is I disagree with you. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

That's fair. That's fair. We're gonna have to agree to disagree, but like you mentioned, like there are some times when you just get an all-star where it's like, oh, like that's like we gotta send some. It's the we have to send somebody, and sometimes with bad teams, it's like the reliever that just happens to have the the most solid of years possible. But I I do agree with the uniform things. I always I always hated like the similarness of the uniforms, like I just love like I don't know like how to describe it, just aesthetically, like it just looks right to like have and even in like the NBA, like when they used to do that, when they have it's if it's a white and a colored jersey, like you you'll know who to pass to. So I I agree with you 100% on that. But if we were gonna kind of line up the guys um who were snubbed from the the all-star game, I think I don't know where you you land on this, because the the guys that come to mind are Casey Schmidt, Jung Hu Lee, and Matt Chapman. I think because of what he has done for this team, what he's meant for this team, how uh important he's been for this team, I think that Casey Schmidt probably would have been the guy just because he's played everywhere. He's done literally everything that Tony Vitello has asked for him. He's played first, second, third, short, left, dh. He's bad at leadoff, and I think he's bad at his lowest six. And you know, I'm a war guy, Sean, or uh John. I love war, I love using it, but war does not encapsulate what he's done this year. It's only like 1.4, 1.3. I'm like that. Casey Schmidt has not been a 1.4 win player. And he some of that's just him getting penalized because of the DH. But I mean, as we saw in Colorado, Shay, he might be like the second best defensive third baseman behind Matt Chapman. And you know, he's just kind of just they're at a position where they can't really have him play every day, except that you know Chapman's on the I.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

If the Giants only had one all-star, who would it be? Probably a rise.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

In your mind, who would you want? Just among the guys that they have, yeah. The whole roster. I think it would still be a rise, but I I think among the the guys that didn't, like, he was probably second up in my mind.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

With the record and the disappointing April, May, and June, you you can't really have two guys. They were fortunate to have two guys. So you can't call I know I agree. You can't have five guys. You can't say they were stuck.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

I'm not saying they gotta have five guys, I'm just saying that there was candidates.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Zach Wheeler, that's a snub. Uh, you know, and Sonny Grays 10 and one with the two and a half ERA. That's a snub. Um couple of National League second basemen, right? Um Brandon Lau.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

He's having like the best season by Pirates second baseman ever.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Weatherholt from St. Louis, the the kid. Um, and so even even Michael Harris didn't make the all-star team, and his numbers are a lot better than Ramos's. So you um I don't know if snub is the right word.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

I think let me rephrase it. Okay. If the giant if if if you told me that the giants are gonna have two all-stars at an 800 uh winning percentage. Yeah, I think if you just told me, like, hey, the 2026 San Francisco Giants are gonna have two all-stars, who are they? I think I probably would have gone Schmidt over Webb. Okay. Webb kind of said it himself. He he kind of said it himself. And like, you know, I I did some digging on this, like, the amount of guys who've played at least three games at all the positions that he had, it's not a sh it's not a long list just in the history of the league. And I eliminated the DH from that. And like when you look at just the offense, like it's like he's having one of the greatest uh versatility seasons, you know, in you know, the modern era. And you know, if the Giants were gonna have two guys, I again I personally thought they were just gonna get one, but you know, if they were gonna that Meyer gonna say if they were gonna have two, I think Schmidt should have been second one. But Shay, those plays that he made in third. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Wow. Well, then you're talking about two Giants on the bench offensively, two rever reserves, and you kind of got to spread the wealth. And they did by making a position player and a pitcher if you're gonna have two. So it would have been tough to say, hey, you know, a couple of giants on the bench. What's their record again? Right? I mean, uh there are even in a miserable season, there are standout performances and very good seasons by players. Um, it's just not enough to to make a difference in the standing. So uh I Casey Schmidt, um, I guess he'll have his day come August 4th if a rise is traded, because he'll be the everyday second baseman if Matt Chapman's in the lineup. But you're right, uh he came up out of San Diego State as a third baseman and a closer. He he he would he had that much velocity as a pitcher and the third baseman throughout the farm system. And then he played a little bit shortstop, um, and then he played a little bit of second base. So they wanted to, under Zaidi, make him more versatile and available at different positions, and that kind of paid off to what we're seeing now. Outfield is a different ballgame altogether, but he's been okay. I mean, he hasn't embarrassed himself in left field. They tried right field for a day, and that probably shouldn't happen again. But um, what a value to have on a team. You know, Mauricio Dubon was a good player they should have kept. And, you know, Mauricio can play center field and he can play shortstop in second base, whereas whereas uh Schmidt is probably best in the corners, but still, you know, he's got he's a better hitter than Mauricio Dubon and more power. So it's and it it's a great value to have. And the best thing about Casey Schmidt is that A, he doesn't complain about being moved all over the diamond every day. And number two, he does well at every position you throw him at.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

And you talk about Schmidt having his day on August 5th, I think when September 25th rolls around. We're talking about you know early favorites for the Willie Mack Award. I don't I don't think there's anybody else that really kind of well if Ryas was still on the team, maybe, but I don't think there's anyone else that really kind of holds a candle to this type of season uh that he's having. Shea, before we get out of here, uh a couple points that I just wanted to, you know, rattle off that have happened over the course of uh the last week. Rafael Debers, as you mentioned, four homers on the road trip. He continues to say hot, has like a 950 OPS since the month of May. Uh William Damas missed the first three games of that Diamondback series, but he has since returned. Matt Chapman hits the 10-day I. But should be back before the end of the second half. And just one one one small thing to jot down is that Adrian Hauser got a leverage appearance on Sunday, you know, entered in the seventh inning, Giants down two runs. I was like, oh, okay. Maybe he's under a multi-year contract. They got him. Granted, giving uh 11 million for a seventh inning guy is uh is a lot of money, but you know, in theory, you know that's that's that's investment in the bullpen. It wouldn't be the first, yeah. In theory, if not uh yeah, it would not be the first in the last recent years. Uh Shay, before we get out of here, I do want to you know give you an outlet and give you give you a little I'm gonna lob one up to you real quick. It's a two-on-one fast break. You're Giannis. I am who was it, Drew Holiday 2021 in the finals. I'm lobbing you one up right now. You had a you heard a really fun story about you know talking to Richard Reelia and Sean Estes about you know their roles on the MBC Sports Bay area, post-game show, Alex Palovich, friend of the show, friend of the program, and just you know, the kind of balancing act that they have to have of, you know, also you know being critical, but you know, not making it personal, especially for these guys, because you know, the Giants meet it's not not just a team they passed over, like this is the teams that mean something to them.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Yeah, and you and I are working for independent media, right? So we we're we're supposed to be neutral, we're we're we're not fans, we don't root, we're really not supposed to care who wins, who lost who loses. We root for an angle and a good story, and we also root for uh the game not to go bananas in the ninth inning on deadline where you have to rewrite everything. Happened a couple times, it's happened a few times for you on this club, and what a club you got. Um, but when we watch analysts on TV, you know they're either paid by the network or paid by the team. So when they're like brutally honest and call out something or somebody, whether it's a manager or a player, you take note and you say, Hey, I kind of dig that. Fans like it. And it happened twice in recently, uh, both with Sean Estes and and um Rich Aurelia. Aurelia, when he just happened to be in the studio when Rafi Devers um like ignored Jonah Cox and say, I'm I'm not coming out of the game. I don't care if you're a pinch runner, I'm staying here. You know, he refused to exit. He finally did, but it was a terrible look. And Rich Aurelia, to his credit, called him out. And Sean Estes uh had the game when when uh the the web game when he went eight innings, 99 pitches, they were up 3-1. And uh it was right after that Midwestern uh trip, the three-game three-city trip uh that finished in Chicago. So it was a night game in Chicago, so they flew all night, and and Keaton win for the third straight game, got summoned by the manager. So Vitello went with a guy who had gone two in a row, and this was his third after the long travel, and he got lit up, they lost the game, and Sean Estes in the immediate aftermath. And some of these times you have to credit these analysts because there's no preparation, just happened, and now the camera's on you. Talk. So he went two and a half minutes, kind of did a rant. Pretty much everything was critical of the manager for pulling web for using this kid to uh close and um kind of missing out on an ABS situation in the sixth inning, and blah blah blah, just went on and on. So uh I just thought, you know what? That's pretty cool. I like that. I like it when analysts tell the truth and uh cross the line. And a lot of analysts we see in all sports, they just sugarcoat everything and don't acknowledge the negative, which is just horrendous. So I said, you know, Carrie Crowley actually came up with the idea, I gotta say. And it was exactly Mr. Ideas. So uh it was it was great. I reached out to both, and both were willing to talk. And they could have easily said, you know what, I don't I don't want to get involved. But I figured I would talk to each for maybe 15 minutes, and it went probably triple that for each. Um, and to their credit, they just broke down everything they said, they stood by their words, and each of them said nobody reached out to them to complain. In fact, Rich Aurelia kind of told me that one time in the history of you know, his career of doing this, and S has been doing it 16 years, Aurelia has been doing it 15 years, pretty much longer than they played the game. And he said uh there was a game, Giants Padres, Mauricio Dubone stole stole a bag, and Steven Duggar bunted for a hit with a nine-run lead. You know, that's a no-no in baseball tradition. You don't show up the other team and run up the score by bunting or stealing a bag. So Bob Melvin was the manager on the other side, Matt Williams was was the third base coach, and they were venting. The Padres were ticked off, and you just don't do it. And at the end of the game, um I remember I was in the interview room with with Kappler and I was quizzing him on these unwritten rules that you're breaking. And he said, We're playing it through, man. We're we're trying to get to their bullpen. So later in the series, that bullpen guy won't be available, which kind of makes sense, but it's still breaking all the unwritten rules. And after the game, Richard Reelia said, Hey, that's a terrible look. You know, you ain't supposed to do that. You're gonna get a guy hurt. If Duggar's gonna come up after bunny and uh Dubon's gonna come up after stealing a base, actually is the other way around, a pitcher's gonna throw you, throw at you, and hurt you or hurt a teammate. So, you know, that that's not something you do, it's just like a gentleman's agreement. You don't do that. So that time he did get a call from uh the Giants to the network that said, Hey, you know, what was all this about? And and Richie back then, to his credit, stood by his words and said, Hey, I'll send you the tape. And I stand by what I said. So it's kind of cool that these guys played here, were popular here, uh late 90s, early 2000s, and now they're back um pre and post. Uh not every game, but they have a schedule. So Richie Aurelia did uh the weekend in Colorado, and SS is coming back uh you know a few weeks um down the road uh to do the same. I think in Seattle he might actually be uh on the broadcast. So uh it was cool to talk to these guys, and and uh and like I said, they didn't have to, but they really kind of opened up on breaking it down and why they said that. And and yeah, they love the team and they're both on the wall of fame outside the park. But sometimes they got to call things out when things needed to be called out, so good for them.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

And one of the things that you had mentioned in the story was that you know it's that ability to be critical without making it personal, and sometimes, you know, sometimes lines can get overstepped when it comes to the the roles that they're in. And if there's anybody within the Giants organization that may have taken exception to what Estes said about Vitello or Aurelia said about Devers, I would implore you just go on YouTube, type in Ozzie Gheen post-game show highlight tape. There's probably some videos out there of Ozzie Gheean doing a hell of a lot worse. As an animal. And a manager. Both. And as a manager, and as a manager, and they're telling it like it is, and Shay, me and you are also trying to tell like it is. Shea, where where can we find your work? SFstandard.com. Still doing it. And if you don't know, the app is up. They got an app now. If you ever wondered, how can I make it easier to see the SF standard? How can I make it easier to read John Shea, Tim Kawakami, Carrie Crowley when he picks up the pen, they got the app now. Justice Los Santos, John Shea, Splash Considerations. Catch all the next one. Thanks, Justice.