Splash Considerations Ep. 26: Half Time (feat. Shayna Rubin)

On Episode 26 of Splash Considerations, Justice is joined by Shayna Rubin of the San Francisco Chronicle to discuss the Giants' selection of Jackson Flora with the No. 4 overall pick, the promotions of Dakota Jordan, Gavin Kilen and Bo Davidson and the Giants' performance going into the All-Star Break. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Welcome to another episode of Splash Considerations. My name is Justice Delosanto, San Francisco Giants B reporter for the Bay Area News Group, San Jose Mercury News, East Bay Times, whatever you want to call it, as long as you read, as long as you subscribe. And speaking of subscribe, subscribe to the YouTube channel. Follow us on Apple, follow us on Spotify. A lot of things in this world cost a lot of money, but subscribing and following, those things remain free 99 in just the moment of your time. And we are finally at the midway point of the season. I guess not technically. We're 96 games in the midway point, it was about 15 games ago. But we are at the all-star break and here to join me to talk about the midway point and a little bit about the future, Shayna Rubin of the Sarah Francisco Chronicle friend of the program. Shayna, how are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Great. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

I am I am ecstatic. When I was at the recent I showed you this before we started recording, when I was at the the recent uh Denver Phoenix Road trip, Jack in the Box dropped these like Jack in the Box theme mugs. And for the I guess for people who have seen like my Bucky's mug, like no one's surprised, but like I've finally gotten to use this. It's awesome. I love I love it so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Are you gonna get a sponsorship deal now with Jack's in the Jack in the Box?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Okay, Jack in the Box, the munchy meals when they were six bucks, those things held me down when a lot of people weren't when people weren't that's so that's so dramatic. But back when they were still six bucks, that was that was the peak of like my high school nostalgia. Shayna, we have uh four days off. We don't have there there won't be another Giants game for uh four days, um, which you know considering all that has happened in the first half, I think it is a much deserved break for uh not just the players, but uh us as well. How are you spending the break, Shayna?

SPEAKER_00 2:11

I mean, we're in the news biz. We gotta work.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

And we don't get time off.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

We gotta be that that's a lie. That is a blatant lie.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

I gotta be working. I'm I'm serious. I'm working on stuff. Brian, don't stop. Brian, don't stop, whatever, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Yeah, that's what else am I doing?

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Um is that you are not watching what normally would be time reserved for a Giants baseball game, but what will you be doing?

SPEAKER_00 2:39

World Cup watching? Is that still on? Yeah, of course it's still on. I want to watch. We got some footy to watch, we got some like LeBron watch to watch, we got so much to watch. The watches are on.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

So I watched I saw this tweet the other day that somebody said LeBron wants the World Cup to end before making his announcements so that he can dominate the news site. And that sounds very uh that sounds very LeBron like a LeBron move. Uh I don't know. Um just let's just hope that uh no more punches will be thrown in Las Vegas, I guess. And Tyler Hero. I saw the meme that was I showed it to you in the clubhouse. I was like, punches thrown in Las Vegas, it's like bam out of bio one Conor McGregor. Uh zero. But Shana, before well, I can't even we're not even going into the full break mode because I can't even lie, I got stuff to work on too. But before theoretically going into full break mode, though, we've got some Giants baseball uh to talk about. Um before talking about the future, though, or I guess ruminating on the past, let's talk about the future because this past weekend was the draft. The Giants had the number four pick thanks to some lottery luck last December, as well as the 29th pick thanks to the Patrick Bailey trade. And they said they weren't gonna draft for fit, they were going to take the best player available, and the best player available. Uh, just so happened to be Jackson Flora, uh, a Bay Area kid, but um, I guess to the detriment of us, uh, went to UC Santa Barbara. And I don't know if you know this, Shayna. There is another podcast in the Giants Sphere that has not one but two UC Santa Barbara alums. Giants talk. Uh I get I guess we're never getting the exclusive podcast interview, Shayna. It's uh it's so over. It's so over. It was over before it even started.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

I mean, you know, Jackson seems like a he seems like a generous kid. Maybe he's just wants to talk to some Bay Area locals or something like that, you know. He's uh maybe who knows if he's uh harsh to the gauge connection. We'll see.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Who is to say? But uh Jackson Flora went to Foothill High School in Pleasanton. That's the same high school that Brandon Crawford went to, grew up a Giants fan, and if you think he's a casual when he was naming some players that he grew up watching, he named the usual suspects Madison Baumgarner, Tim Linska, Matt Kane, Ryan Vogel Song. But also gave some love to Jeff Samarja. Shout out to Jeff Samarja. The we we talk about Logan Webb kind of being an innings eater. Jeff Samarja was like the OG, like 200 plus innings for ERA, gonna save the bullpen, throwing seven innings when he probably shouldn't have. So shout shout out to Jeff Samarja. But uh this was again the best player available and certainly satisfied a need. He had a 106 ERA as a junior, his 133 strikeouts set a program record, got the mid-90s fastball, the harder slider, the sweeper, the kick change, and I guess most importantly, uh on his phone a ranking of chicken sandwiches that he likes. Shayna, while the Giants weren't drafting for need, it seems like drafting someone like Flora uh certainly addresses a need, a pretty glaring need in the farm system, which is high-end pitching talent.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Yes. Um pitching, yeah, high-end pitching talent for sure. Uh I think that two things can happen. At once, you can uh draft for the best players in the draft, but also uh draft for need, and that's the kind of accomplished in the first round, uh both both things, or at least that's how they're it it appears. Uh Flora seemed like the no not necessarily the no-brainer option, but definitely a no-brainer option at that at the number four pick, given where the first three went, which was also not uh unpredictable. So uh yeah, I mean, I think that one of the one of the the I don't know underlying trends, but very clear trend of this season is that a lot of the the pitching that should have been developed that should have uh elevated the staff on and the big league team as a whole has not really showed up. And that's not to knock on Landon Roop and Trevor McDonald and uh some of the guys that some of the younger pitchers that have come up and and contributed, but there is sort of a a dearth of um of high-level pitching options in throughout the system that supplements uh options like that and makes this what's supposed to be a uh a strength of the organization look not so much like that. And uh, you know, Landon Group, I think, is is a success story, even though he's gotten uh um he's been through through it this year in a variety of ways, or he's uh you know, not had great months and uh not had great starts, but had a couple great starts in there. But uh aside from Landon Group, I think that the we can talk about the exceptions, but the the general uh the general issue that's issue that's uh prevalent is that uh you know you're not getting the guys that Jackson Flora mentioned, you're not getting the Matt Keynes and the Tim Winds of Cumms. And I think that's uh a story of uh this organization's identity, and it's not necessarily there. So reupping some of that potential in the in the system in this draft is not a bad idea.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yeah, and a guy like Trevor McDonnell, who you mentioned, is still very young into his major league career. This is his first opportunity to get you know consistent starts at the major league level, and his last start going into the all-star break is seven innings, uh, one run against the Colorado Rockies, the only run he allowed being uh an inside the park home run. Um, but the one thing about this, you know, the Giants farm system or the way that it kind of shakes out right now is that a lot of their best pitching prospects aren't going to be here this year. They might not be there next year either. Jacob Bresnian's currently uh with Haya Eugene, he's had a great year. Cater Martinez and Arrianis Kayama, they're both with Low A San Jose right now. I would imagine they end the year uh with Eugene, especially when that you know ACL crop of talent starts moving up and Cater Martinez just striking out the world. I think he's striking out like 15 guys per night inning or uh whatever it might be. But you know, as you mentioned, a lot of the the pitching talent or the pitching prospects that they had before this draft are kind of at the higher levels, and it's guys like Blade Tidwell, Carson Wisenhunt, who haven't necessarily like like rammed the door down as to being in the majors, and we're you know, we're gonna see a lot of Carson Wisenhunt in the second half, assuming that Robbie Ray gets traded. I assume we'll see a good amount of Blade Tidwell uh as well. But a lot of the Giants' farm system right now has kind of been dominated by position players, and that's not necessarily uh a bad thing, and we'll get into some of the guys in the farm system right now. But you know, it while it it wasn't like an over this wasn't the 2021 Angels draft where they just drafted all pitchers. Um, but it did seem like in the early rounds they were targeting some pitchers, and they've definitely uh supplemented the farm system in that regard. But uh before getting into some of those other pitchers, uh one thing I wanted to get your opinion on is we've seen guys uh in recent years like Paul Skeens, Chase Burns, Gabe Jump, Chase Dolander who have really sprinted throughout the farm system, so to say, like either a year after the fact or two years after the fact they've major league they've made their major league debut. Do you envision something similar happening with Flora?

SPEAKER_00 9:57

I mean, it seems like that's uh not necessarily the expectation, but kind of um kind of the expectation, just given he's a college pitcher, he's uh the consensus best college pitcher in the draft, and where players of that cat pitchers of that caliber have the way that though those guys have moved through other team system, I think that the expectation or the hope is that he follows a similar trajectory. Um when you talk to Giants folks, and uh I think Florida said himself, I mean, what is he he's he's he's just kind of along for the ride right now, or he's he's just getting into it. But um, I think that the hope is that that's uh the Giants can can get in on that action of getting a highly touted, flamethrowing, uh young pitcher from the college ranks just right up to uh right through the right through the system and and make an impact to get to get in on that on that trend. And it does, I mean we'll have to see how it goes. It's just it's we're day three of him even being in the Giants system and uh he hasn't even signed yet. So um it's uh to be determined, but I think that that was the sort of the first question and and the first sort of uh thought is is he gonna follow the Paul Skeens uh uh trajectory?

SPEAKER_01 11:14

I mean, he said he's ready to go right now. I think if you put the ball in his hand tomorrow, I I think he would be uh ready to go. But you know, it is interesting, just like the way we've seen, you know, the way that college baseball has progressed, and I think this would actually be a very fun conversation with Tony Vitello about, you know, how the college game has kind of equipped guys to really accelerate through the system. And the one thing, you know, to your point, he hasn't signed, and I'm sure when he does sign, he's gonna do the whole thing uh at Oracle and we'll get more clarification on what his timeline is gonna be going forward. We don't know right now if he's gonna pitch the remainder this year. He did throw uh over a hundred innings at UC Santa Barbara. So if he does pitch this year, it's probably gonna be like what, like two, three starts, maybe four starts of like three innings. He's not gonna throw a lot, but uh obviously next year it's the question of where is he gonna start the season, and that's kind of based on how this season ends, and then yada yada yada. But uh as I mentioned, Flora was far from the only pitcher. Actually, before moving on from Flora, any final thoughts on Flora and uh just your first impressions uh of the Bay Area native?

SPEAKER_00 12:20

He seems like a good character, he seems fun. Um and I know fun, I don't know that he seems like a swell guy. Um but yeah, I think uh he was showing some personality and um you know, not not to knock on other athletes, but it sometimes you don't get that open and uh and and fun personality out the gate. And I think that he he seemed very comfortable with uh uh showing his personality just from minute one of talking to media at least. Um, and someone like Bryce Eldridge, that's another guy that you can kind of tell that they they want to put their personality and their ambitions on on display. And I wouldn't be surprised if uh Giants fans sort of get a really early sort of uh good impression of of Jackson Floor because he's very much he seems like an outgoing, uh outgoing guy. So that was my impression of him as a person. He's got the chicken tender list, that's super, super fun. Um, and he's a Bay Area guy. And I think that like there's always just like a fun connection when a guy can, you know, say that he went to the he was like five years old or something when the 2010 World Series happened or whatever, which is insane to wrap my head around. But um, you know, he was there and and and him have being a fan of the that 2016 pitching staff. The the I don't know if you mentioned Johnny Johnny Quato, but the Quato Smarja duo, that was a that was a fun time and for for pitchings. So I think that it's fun to see someone that is has a uh rich understanding, even though he was a kid of the of Giants lore.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

I'm not gonna lie, I kind of do want to, you know, just when we have a chance to just talk casually, I want to ask him like who are your like your sickos? Like who, like who, like were like were you like a Guillermo Quiro's head? Were you an Eduardo Nunez head? Like, like were you hoping that Gary Brown was like I want to know, like like he like he said Samarja, so I'm like, okay, like you this is not like surface level. Like, was he a Nick Noonan guy? Like, I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

That's that guy's got Nick Noonan running all over him. I think he's a warrior's head too, so it'd be fun to pick his brain about what kind of warrior stuff he saw as a wee lad because he's was a child, is a child. I don't know. He's so young.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

He's gonna be like, yeah, I thought Beyonce Weber was the point guard of the future after stuff. I don't know. Uh but moving but moving on from Flora, as I mentioned, that uh the Flora was not the only pitcher, a pitcher of note that the Giants selected uh during the two days of the draft. Uh, there was also with the 29th pick, again, that was coming from the Patrick Bailey trade. They got Carson Bowman out of Southside Christian School in South Carolina. He was the back-to-back Gatorade player of the year in South Carolina, considered to be uh the best prep pitcher in the draft. I think going into 2026, he was considered the best pitcher, period, regardless prep or uh college. Tony Vaitello actually tried recruiting him, but Bowman ended up committing to Wake Forest. Actually, one quick note since I mentioned Tony, I do want to say that when we were talking to Flora, like midway, like at the very end of that conversation, uh Tony got ejected for like the really weird, like bog pitch redacted situation. And I think John Shea, friend of the program, John Shea, said, uh, your future manager uh just got ejected. So that was a fun moment and all that. But there's also some you know notable last names too on day two of the draft. You know, you got Luke Nixon with the fifth-round pick, he's the son of former major leader Trot Nixon, Josiah Kemp, who's the 12th round pick, a nephew of former Dodger Matt Kemp, who should have been the 2011 MVP, but that's neither here nor there. Uh he's actually committed to Oklahoma, so we'll have to see if he ends up signing. But there was one guy with a last name that was a little more notable than with respect to Luke Nixon and Josiah Kemp, who at Grant Brisby said might have met Rihanna, I guess. Um but there was one there was one very notable last name, Shayna. Can you tell us who that notable last name was?

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Mr. Peyton Bonds.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Peyton Bonds.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

The nephew of the Barry Bonds, the grandson of the Bobby Bonds. So third generation giant.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Third generation giant. And I think the one thing that stuck out when we were talking to my Michael Holmes about Peyton Bonds is the Giants drafted him because of him, because he was Peyton Bonds. And like it's you read that quote and you're like, what does he mean? It's like, it's because the talent there is just very infatuating. He I think he had like a max exit v low of like 120 when he was in college. I think he grades out as a pretty you know plus defender in center field who's having a really good season at Rutgers before uh he had a hamstring injury that ended his season early, maybe would have gone a little earlier uh if not for that hamstring injury. And he was also teammates with uh last year's third round pick, funny enough, Trevor Cohen. So I think I remember when we were talking to Cohen in spring training, I think we asked him, uh, did you ever get to meet Barry? And I think he said no. I was trying to, though. So uh the name is definitely fun. The name is definitely gonna be one to follow, but I as we kind of alluded to here, Shannon, it's not just the name that's the reason that Peyton got drafted, it's the talent as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Yeah, I think uh you look at the the framework for which Peyton Bonds is sort of uh uh um presents, and he has a lot of the bonds qualities. Um he's got a lot of power, he hits the ball hard, or power is in uh he hits the ball hard, and that hasn't really translated to power, hasn't really translated to home runs. And I think that that's something that um Michael Holmes mentioned is they think that they can make some tweaks to his swing or his his bat path to generate more power, uh, more home runs out of out of that capability. And then we'll see if that happens. But you know, that's something that he noted. Um he's a he's an outfielder, he's a great outfield defender. Um and uh it's uh it was just sort of a you know that he's in the mix, you know that a bond is in the mix, and then the sudden realization that the Giants got him was just uh you have to think, oh, that's you know, obviously they want to get more bonds in the house, but I think that what what Holmes said is that is, and I'm sure there's something to that just organizationally. Um but um something that Holmes said is like, yeah, we got a good look at him at records when we were watching Trevor Cohen. And Trevor Cohen is someone that's uh pretty exciting in the Giants organization. Um uh so there's there's a lot to that that pick that's goes beyond the bond's name. Uh and uh I think it's exciting to see what they can do with him and if they can get the the potential that's sort of jumps off the page back on uh onto the field in a variety of ways that goes beyond what he did at Rutgers.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

So when you're creating for for all the draft heads out there, when you're creating your uh 2027 mock draft and you get to the third round, just write down an outfielder at Rutgers and the Giants uh are probably gonna take him. Shana, before we get to uh the major league team and really get into the the first half here, wanted to quickly mention some promotions. Uh after the ball all-star break, Dakota Jordan and Gavin Keelan will be moving up from high A Eugene to A Richmond. Both of them were obviously at the futures game. Dakota Jordan had a double, and he's just been on like an insane heater. I think he has like a 1,500 OPS over his last like handful of games going into the break. And uh Bo Davidson will be promoted from AA Richmond to AAA Sacramento. This allow these promotions kind of coming in conjunction with each other allow both Dakota and Bo to continue playing center field, and the Giants have you know said that they want to see them and evaluate them as center fielders going forward. With David and Son in particular, Shana, would you be surprised at all, you know, especially kind of given the way this Giants season has gone? Because he is 40-man eligible, he's rule five eligible after the season. Would you be surprised at all if you know, like final homestand, final six-game homestand, we see Bo Davidson in a Giants uniform?

SPEAKER_00 20:09

At this rate, no, I wouldn't be surprised. I I'm not sure that I was thinking about it uh when the season began as as a possibility. I mean, uh there's so it was certainly a possibility, but now it's uh just given um where the season is going, I think that it would be um in their best interest to sort of mix up the outfield and and um explore what they can explore their their depth in outfield prospects uh as soon as possible. And Bo Davidson is is moved up pretty quickly and um there could be some movement in the outfield at the trade deadline. It's hard to say that definitively, but I'm not I'm not trying to break the phone.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

I need definitive answers, Shana. I need you to tell me who they're trading right now.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna break we're gonna break all the news here now and we're gonna start all the rumors, but um I will say that I I don't think it's out of the realm that they there's some movement in the outfield in terms of uh what they're doing at the deadline. Um and part of that is because they're in a position where they need to start thinking about um how to move on from the season. What's what's next? Uh the the mix of what they threw out there this year is not getting it done uh for a variety of reasons, and that that's not because of the outfield, but the outfield is a space where they have some fast risers. So um I think that that's definitely something that is on the potentially on the menu.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Yeah, when you think about the state of the farm system, you know, after the draft, and obviously we're a couple weeks out from the August 3rd trade deadline. Uh I mentioned this a couple days ago. I don't think it would be outlandish to envision that you know, once you get these guys signed and then you make the trades, whether that be Louis Saraize, Robbie Ray, maybe Elliot Rama, or maybe Elliot, maybe Jung Hu Lee. Um it wouldn't be surprising if we're talking about the Giants having a top. Five farm system in baseball once this season uh is all said and done. Shayna. I got one final note before we move on to the major league team. Can you can you allow me to step on my soapbox just really quick?

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

I need I need uh what's what's the c I need ISO. What is the I'm calling a I'm calling an ISO right here. Okay. Major League Baseball, I need I need you to do better. I need you to do better when it comes to the draft and the futures game. It's getting ridiculous. Think about this logistically. On Monday, you got the all-star events. The Derby's gonna be tonight. It's gonna be the new format. I'm personally excited to see it. That's great. Tuesday, you got the all-star game. Wednesday and Thursday, you have nothing. There is nothing happening on the baseball schedule. It is two days off. There is nothing happening. So why Major League Baseball, do you decide to have day one of the draft on Saturday when there are games happening? Because as I mentioned, Tony Vitello got ejected when we were talking to Jackson Flora. And then you also have day two of the draft where not only are Major League games happening, the futures games happening. Shana, I didn't give a damn about the futures game because I have the game in front of me to cover. Major League Baseball, you want the draft to be a premium event. I think it can be a premium event. Forget the fact that no one wants to show up to it. That's like that's a whole nother thing entirely. I think you gotta figure out a way to incentivize these guys to get to the draft. But that's a whole nother deal entirely. You have two open days on the baseball calendar. Figure it out, man. Like, why are we like jam-packing all of this into one weekend when we do got two free days? Now, uh the problem with that, I guess logistically, is that if you do that, everybody's gotta work on the two days off. But you know who doesn't have to work? The players and the coaches. They can have that time off. It's okay. You said it, Shana. We're grinding, we're we're not, we don't got days off anyway. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. So if you want to make this an event, if you want people to care, if you don't like, it's already the TikTok generation. I attention is already diverging in so many different places. I'm overstimulated, there's too much going on. We gotta make this better. We gotta figure out something else than having a million different things happening on one day. I rest my case. I'm throwing the hands up. I'm throwing the hands up. Where's my I got a gavel over there? I'm not pulling it out of the the my shelf. And alright, alright, Shana. We've used up all our optimism for the day. Let's talk about the Major League team. Okay. Let's talk about the Major League team. Uh the Giants end of the All-Star Break 41-55. Third worst record in the National League. They're currently 10 and a half games out of a wild card spot. And for a team that has not swept all year or won four games in a row, uh, getting back into that race is going to be a very tall order. Uh Shane and I got some numbers, and we're gonna do something fun. We're gonna get into some categories. Uh, before getting into all that, I'm gonna ask you an impossible question. How do you summarize the first half of Giants baseball? How do you summarize all that?

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Um disappointing.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Okay. That was a fair answer.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Disappointing, um, kind of hilarious at times. Not not to make light of whatever the team is going through, uh whatever. Um not to make too much light of it.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

But I do think objectively speaking.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Objectively speaking, it was just like, what am I looking at? What's going on? I like at most points, I was just sort of amazed at uh how poorly things were going on a day-to-day basis. They're in in a I've never, I don't think I've ever seen a giant's team just so incapable of generating any semblance of momentum. Like I at some point you see like a flash of it for you know, a couple, like a you know, at least something once. There was not one time did it feel like they were picking up steam, or even you know, smelling steam. There was no steam. There was just it was and on the other side of it, there was just it felt like there's so many controversies, issues, you know, things popping up that um were not baseball related. And that happens when the the product on the field is just listless and confusing, is all the other things just get magnified. Um so it just felt like a mess. It was like watching a little train wreck happen. So we'll see what happens in the a little teeny tiny train wreck.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

That's certainly one way to describe it. And Shane, to the point about I'm not gonna turn this page around, but on this page right here, I do have a list. For those of you watching, I do have a list of what I think to be are all of the You printed it out controversies. I got my notes, Shane. I gotta I gotta have my notes on me, but we're gonna go through this. We're literally saving the best for last year. This is gonna be the because it there is so much that has happened. Like when I was writing it down, I was just like, that happened this year. But before getting into that, so to run through some numbers, uh I mentioned the record, they're 14 games uh below 500, their season high has been 16, uh negative 64 run differential. That's a third worst in the National League. 18th in position player war, 24th in pitcher war, 25th in run scored, 22nd in ERA, 14th in WRC Plus, 20th in FIP, and uh like I mentioned, there is no metric for this, but I do think that they are first in just the quantity of weird, odd, controversial things that have happened uh off the field. So, Shana, instead of kind of regurgitating the same points we've talked about pretty much since March, um I've assembled some categories for us. I'm gonna give you a category, you provide your answer, I'll provide mine, and then we'll go from there. Uh, do you want to start positive or negative?

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Negative.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

The biggest disappointment of the first half, that is the first category.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

What? That's like one? You gotta pick you gotta pick one. The biggest disappointment? Yes. What is for the 2026 San Francisco Giants, what has been the biggest disappointment through 96 games? And you can't just say the rec like don't don't just say the record. Like, yeah, no, like, yeah, the fact that they're 14 games under 500, that is the biggest disappointment.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Sure. Um my god, I don't even how do I I'm not prepared for this question.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Should I go for this?

SPEAKER_00 29:26

I'm not sure if you get one answer. Um the the pitching staff, I don't even, but I don't even know what's disappointing because I wasn't really expecting it to be great. Just because the that was the biggest question going into the season is how are they gonna function with this under uh invested in underproven bullpen? And it's just like, oh, you know, they're gonna prove them wrong, and there's pieces here and there's stuff here, and then uh it turns out it's exactly as we thought. They are who we thought they were. They are who we thought they were, they are who we thought they were, and then uh something Tony mentioned yesterday kind of in passing was the negativity surrounding the bullpen leaks into the clubhouse, and it's just like if if that's leaking and you guys aren't thinking about it, that I I understand that the clubhouse has to sort of seal itself from outside noise, but um it's uh objectively a a flaw that's lost them plenty of opportunities for sweeps, for momentum, uh devastating losses. And that's not just a bullpen, the the rotation has been something of a disappointment too. You got one like spectacular month from Logan Webb, he's been injured, and Robbie Ray's been in and out of consist of good and bad, and the rest of it is just, I mean, the the two guys I picked up have been meh. So it's just the pitching staff is so meh, and they that's uh you expect more from a team that is supposedly very um adept at creating a pitching advantage from outside and inside their uh organization, and that's not what happened. It is happening.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Yeah, I think we've said I think we've probably just we think about topics. I think we've probably talked about the bullpen like once an episode. Like, I don't think there's been an episode that we've had where we haven't talked about it, but it's they didn't invest heavily in the bullpen, you know. Jason Foley finally, well, he didn't make his debut, but he was finally recalled on Sunday. It's been his first time with the team. They paid him 2 million, and Sam Henches, I think it was 1.4 million. And again, I've I've mentioned this point a couple times. I don't think to field a successful team, you like have to spend X amount of dollars. Like, you don't have to have like a $250 million payroll to be successful. That's not the case. But with the bullpen, it's like there does come a point when you you can't just kind of nickel and dime your way into having a good bullpen. Like maybe if you had like if Randy Rodriguez was still here and you know Camilla Duvall was still here, then yeah, sure, like you could maybe supplement, but you know that hasn't been uh the case. And also also side note, Tyler Rogers came back to um Oracle Park for the first time. And I'm just realizing we I we did not touch on this at all, and I probably because I was not there, but the Giants also got almost got no hit uh last Wednesday by Dylan Cease. So that's that's kind of just on the list of things that have happened in the first half that have not been great. Um my biggest disappointment and I I I want to make it very clear as I say this, uh, because I'm gonna say a person, and I want to make it very clear. Like this this specific person is not the reason that the Giants are 14 games 500. It's been a lot of things, but it does kind of stem relative to expectation of production. And that's been William Adamas. Uh Willie Adamas finished last year with 30 homers uh for war. It was his second straight four war season. He's pretty much averaged four war since like 2021. And you know, entering the all-star break, he is at point one. Uh his WRC plus is 93. He's sitting on 14 homers. He has been, depending on your perspective, either one of one of the worst defenders in baseball or by fielding run value, I think he has been fielding run value or outside above average, he's been uh the worst defender at shortstop. And this is only year two of a seven-year deal, and as I've mentioned, you know, he's only making 13.1 million this year. And that goes up to 31.1 million next year. It's essentially going to be a five-year, 150 million dollar contract for the remainder of you know his time here. And again, I I want to iterate like Willie is not the reason specifically the Giants are where they are, but you know, you start thinking it's a kind of an accumulation of a lot of things not going right. And I don't think it's it's unfair to say that Willie Domas's second season as a giant going into the all-star break has not gone right.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Yeah, I uh I think that's a totally fair call out. Uh just individually, he hasn't his start to his Giants career has not has been largely disappointing uh relative to the contract that he got. Um he the numbers that being the the the first 30 home run hitter for the Giants' bonds, I think that should come with an not an asterisk, but it should come with a note that is it's just the home runs are never quite consequential to the outcome. Not never. There have obviously been some consequential home runs that he hit, but it's just there's a lot of empty cavalry in some of the stats that he's produced. Um something that uh is notable about his approach in in certain situations is is uh lacking um scoring situations, two strikes, two outs, et cetera, et cetera. Um it does feel like he's just um he hasn't been that guy in the moment in the big moments, and you're getting paid to be that guy in the big moments. Um and that's not to say that everyone else is the opposite of that. It's not to say that he's the only one, but it's definitely something that um has been notable in terms of what the expectation was of him coming into the season, what he's paid to do defensively and at the plate, and uh what's been happening. And I think that if you watch the Giants day to day, it's it's it's slaps you right across the face how disappointing it's been. And that maybe that sounds a little harsh, but um I think it's it's just a truth that you have to address. And I I I would imagine he might say the same is that it's you know he's probably not happy with um with the way that this year is going for him.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Yeah, and to your point about the uh the when of when some of these stats have come. Um for those of you who are curious, go on baseball reference, go to his splits in 2026 and look at the leverage. Like this, like it's objectively harder to hit in leverage situations, yes, because you're probably facing a team's back-end pitchers. Um but the the splits between low leverage and medium leverage and high leverage, it is it is incredibly jarring. I think his OPS in high leverage is 400, and I think in low leverage and mid-leverage, it's like in the 700s. Um and a lot of his home runs have come in very low leverage situations. And again, I want to reiterate the point like the Giants are not in this situation only because of Adamus. There have been a lot of things that have gone wrong. Like Raphael Devers, his first half numbers end up being pretty fine, but he was really bad in the month of April. And we'll we'll get into some of the things with Rafi uh that have happened uh throughout the first half uh as well. But just not a good sign going forward. And you know, maybe he'll end up with his numbers, but I think regardless, regardless of how the rest of the second half goes, unless he just goes completely nuclear, this is gonna be his objectively his worst season uh since he was a rookie on the I think 2017. All right, Shana, that was that was enough negativity. You know, they're saying we're always negative, they're saying they're saying they're saying we gotta have people positive. So what has been your biggest surprise? Biggest positive surprise in the first half.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Um uh I'm trying to decide between two things.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

I think we're deciding on the same two things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Did we have this conversation before?

SPEAKER_01 37:38

We may we may, I mean, we're just we're just so locked in, Shana. We're just so the wavelength is there.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

We've had the surprise conversation before.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Are those the two?

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Also, oh okay, here's a here's another one. Okay, not surprise. But um, I'll just say Bryce Eldridge. I don't know if it's like super of a surprise, but that's a fun development. It's a fun one. That's a good one. I mean, if we're talking about Casey Schmidt and Louisa Rias every day because yes, they that's been a they've I mean Casey Schmidt's been some a surprise, and Luisa Rias has been one of the joys of watching this team, one of the few joys. Um uh but so is Bryce Eldridge. I think that what's been the biggest joy about watching him play is that he is bucking the expectation of what kind of hitter he was going to be at the big league level, and uh just because you watch him in the minors and he was very sort of swing and miss power-oriented uh swing and approach at the plate. But can and it's been somewhat consistent at this point. I feel like there's a big enough um sample size to um sort of not come to a conclusion, but sort of to be like, okay, it's his approach is real, you know. He's he's um he's got a good eye. Um, and I think that one of the new indicators that he's really seeing the ball well is the ABS um efficiency. He was nine for nine at some point. I think he missed his first ABS call like last week. Um, he's really seeing the ball, and he really is seeing the ball well at the big league level, and it shows in in his numbers. He's making good contact, he's uh using the whole field, he's hitting for power when he can, he's hitting the ball hard. He's just he's he's shown to be a mature, more of a mature and complete hitter than maybe was expected of him at this point in his career at the big league level. And that'll, you know, of course, it'll take his lumps as uh it goes as the season goes on, as as career as as his career goes on and as pitchers become more familiar with him. But out the jump, I think that's been the most surprising development.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Yeah, I feel like the cruel irony of this season is that if I told you in March Luisa Ryes was gonna play at a gold glove level and hit and have like the second highest batting average in majors, Casey Schmidt was just gonna become like this incredibly versatile player who had a legit all-star case. And is also making some of like the like like the three best plays that have like arguably the three best defensive plays that have happened this season have happened by Schmidt in like the last week. And then Bryce Eldridge was just gonna hit the ground running, and you know, he had the walk-off grand slam, and you know, as you mentioned, he's just his eyes have been very good, he's reduced the strikeouts. If I told you those three things were gonna happen, you'd probably be like, oh, we're gonna like the Giants are making the playoffs easy if everything else falls into place and obviously everything else has not fallen into place. I think if I had to pick one of those specific uh this is even I thought this would be easy because I have my notes right here. Like, what's more surpr like if like what would be more shocking? Like if I told you that Luisa Rias was gonna play Gold Glove caliber defense, if I told or if I told you there would be days where Casey Schmidt was gonna be leading off and playing left field.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

It's like it's like what the it's like. I think the Chief Schmidt thing, actually, like when you say it like that. Yeah, left field leading off. That's a surprise. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Yeah, it's like Elliott gets injured and it's like, okay, like Casey, you've played everywhere. Like you haven't played left field since high school. Go play left field and go with your 800 OPS. And so Casey Schmidt's sitting on 19 homers, you know, he's said that he's not trying to hit homers, but you know, he m he's gonna legitimately have a shot at 30. And again, again, it kind of gets back to the the cruel irony. It's like if I told you if Casey Schmidt was gonna be on pace for 30 homers and then you know Bryce was doing what he's doing and Luis is doing what he's doing, you'd be like, Yeah, this is a Giants team that's gonna make the playoffs. But uh unfortunately it has not fallen that way. Um one we got two more. What is your biggest second half curiosity? And what I mean by that is what are the things you're gonna be watching or you you're most curious to see develop in the second half? And maybe if we want to kind of make it more narrow, like post-trade deadline. Like what are the things you're like, I want to see this happen, I want to see more of this.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

I mean, that's hard to answer because I think a lot of it is contingent on what happens at the trade deadline. Um, I don't expect the Giants as an organization to ever do anything drastic because when have they ever, ever done anything drastic? That they've pretty much said outright we don't do things like that around here. Um so it's it's hard to imagine, but they have to do something. And it's it's at this point drastic is do they go beyond um I hate sorry, you said no trade deadline, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

Um, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Um do they go beyond just uh flipping, you know, Ray and Rise and um maybe Mali or some other guys uh and start to dig deeper into searching out value and and unclogging the roster that they have now to sort of bring about a different look and a different opportunity and um uh get some of their, you know, the Bo Davidson's up, the some of the their pitchers, the Blade tidwells and Carson wasn't was in hunts up. Uh do they it's dependent on what the objective of the second half is. And Logan Webb talked about, oh, you know, we have guys in here that were on the 2021 Atlanta Braves team that was 10 and a half games out of a wild card at this point, and they came back and won the World Series. And I think that that's something that um is hard to imagine happening um with this team. Uh, but it's also like the the there's elements to to to both situations where um maybe they just pressure's off and they show life and some of the I mean the offense is trending in the right direction since a pretty terrible April. Um maybe there's a couple moves they can make that sort of reinvigorate um the team as a whole and they go on a different sort of different trajectory that isn't contention but is more um fun and interesting to watch. Um so yeah, I think that it's there's there's a there's an opportunity to watch the objective change and see how the team plays with maybe a different group and and a different objective in the second half. It's just a little bit more um oriented towards playing better.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

My answer is so much less nuanced. I want to see more Jonah Cox. I'm like so moved. I'm I'm that is my answer. I like that that like that's it. Like I I saw him play like two games at second base, and I'm like, I'm moved. Like he said he he grew up like admiring Chris Taylor. I think he has the athleticism to do it. You know, Casey Schmidt's already playing everywhere. Just like have let Jonah Cox and Casey Schmidt play like every position on the diamond. Yeah, why not? Like there are like again, like especially after the deadline.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

We need more whimsy.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

Yeah, why not?

SPEAKER_00 44:53

Like more whimsy and like, yeah, if you're gonna be sloppy, just or if you're gonna just I don't know, just like have fun with it. Put some athleticism out there. Yeah, and like do the things you say you want to do.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Yeah, like Jonah Cox, like his like the game he got thrown into it to play second base in Arizona, like he makes his diving play, and I'm like, oh my like, you got that in you? Like four innings of professional baseball, or like professional at second base, you got that in you. So I'm just so moved. I'm so fascinated. I feel like he can steal bases at the drop of a dime. He is he is so fast. I want to see him and Grant McCrane to foot race. He is it's he's so unbelievably fast, and I'm just so fascinated. All right. For my favorite question of these these categories. I don't know if this is the right adjective. So I'm just gonna throw a bunch of adjectives. Weirdest slash oddest controversy. Now, as I mentioned, I have this piece of paper in front of me, Shana. And I'm gonna read to you just what I think is the exhaustive list. I'm pretty sure this is the exhaustive list of just the uh like the most curious things that have happened with the 2026 Giants. Because again, it's not just the fact that they're 14 games under 500. There's just been a lot. There's just been so much. So I'm gonna read these off. Tony Vitello blames himself after the second loss of the season when the Giants are shut out, and the veterans subsequently say we appreciate it, but it's not your fault. Uh Matt Chapman yells at Casey Schmidt to catch the ball. The entirety of the Pride Night debacle, the highlights being Rob Manford blaming the Giants for poor communication, Buster Posey's subsequent decision to only answer baseball questions, and the Department of Justice getting involved. Uh Tyler Malley saying he didn't know what his pitch count was, uh Keaton Wynne going on the injured list after pitching in three straight games, Matt Gage going on the injured list after throwing 51 pitches, Patrick Bailey being traded to the Guardians in May, Hector Board being removed as as a third base coach, the bullpen shrugging when they didn't know who was supposed to come in, uh playing in a wind turbine that one day in Sacramento. I guess that's more a game adjacent, but uh the seven homer game against the Cubs, because you know, that's just something that happens. Uh the Kyle Harrison revenge game in Milwaukee. Uh the Bryce Eldridge's very inconsistent playing time when he was initially called up and everything surrounding that. Willie Adamas forgetting how many outs there were at Dodger Stadium. Uh Rafael Devers waving off a pinch runner in Miami, you were there for that. And then two days later, subsequently blaming the media for blowing things out of proportion. Uh losing two games in walk-off fashion in the same day to the Phillies, and I guess kind of Patrick Bailey's really weird pitch calling. That was part of that. The Dalton Rushing saga, uh J.T. Brewbaker essentially telling the Cincinnati Reds to to piss off, and then Eric Miller yelling at Sal Stewart. That was fun. Uh, and then I guess the most recent thing being uh Logan Webb's activities on social media. That's been a lot, Shayna. Again, I don't know what's the right adjective. Like weirdest, most controversial one, oddest. I don't know. When what which one of those? Like when it's just pick one. I I don't know. I don't have a question. Just pick one. That's my question. Weirdest, oddest, most obtuse. I don't even know the right adjective. Like some like the Pride Knight thing, like, kind of stems outside the realm of weird. Like that, like you got the vice president subtweeting the giants. I don't that wasn't on my bingo card personally. Uh let's just the Pride Knight one that kind of belongs to its own category. That's not weird or odd nor whimsical. That's just that that was not fun. But everything else. What what was the weirdest, the oddest, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Uh yeah, I mean, I guess the Pride Knight stuff was really its own category of odd. That's probably been one of the oddest things that's happened in baseball is just the involvement of the giants into the political culture war culture war uh for something that I don't know, it's it was it was strange. It was strange to cover it, it was strange to uh witness it. Um so that I guess gets its own category. Um I mean, I think that there's a common thread in a majority of those, um, which is a lot of oddities surrounding the pitching staff and um guys getting on the injured list and maybe pitching more than we expected them to pitch in a certain game, uh, or in more consecutive days than we expected them to pitch. Uh the throwing up your arms in confusion, the um it's it's that seems to be the over. I don't know if it's an oddity, but it's definitely something that is indicative of the presumed oddity of the year, which is we're dealing with a rookie manager and a pitching or a coaching staff, not just pitching, but a coaching staff that is figuring everything out um on the fly. And that's not new in baseball. You get new coaching staffs all the time. Um, but I think that if you talk to some of the coaches, they're pretty clear about like, yeah, we're all kind of learning each other. And then there's the added lack of familiarity from Vitealo, and I'm not saying that it's his fault or that that's a problem, but I think that you're starting to see a little bit of the um uh unfamiliarity with major league baseball presents in a way that is uh creating some of these oddities. And I don't think that the coaching, I don't think that it's a finger pointing blame at the coaching staff. I think it's just showing where their unfamiliarity is really presenting itself in the in in the game. And uh I'm not saying that they're causing the injuries, and I'm just saying that you can see um you can see the unfamiliarity present itself. And um, I think that's one of the things that it's not we were kind of expecting with uh not expecting, but it was something to watch going into the year is how is this completely new coaching staff going to with a completely green manager going to handle a veteran, um a veteran team, especially especially with veteran hitters. But the the I think that we're seeing a lot of the oddities with the pitching staff because that is built in itself in a lot of ways, needing continuity, needing um familiarity. And I think that in symphony with the fact that there are no roles in the undefined roles in the bullpen and the uh the rotation's been iffy, I I think that you can add the unfamiliarity unfamiliarity with the pitching coach staff as something that is contributing to uh a lot of the oddities and inconsistencies that we're seeing with the pitching staff.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Yeah. Retweet. Retweet. Retweet. Uh yeah, it's just been I mean, to the point about like win and gauge in particular, like, yeah, like I think we've talked about this. There does come a point when if you're a reliever, it kind of falls on you to say, like, hey, like you gotta say something at some point. Um, but I do think that more veteran coaching staffs, managers would you kind of gotta watch out for your guys a little more, like even if they're theoretically available, which again, Keaton Wynne didn't say he was unavailable to pitch in a third straight day. Uh Matt Gage didn't tell the coaching staff. Um, but it's one of those things where it's like, uh, like you kind of probably should stay away from doing something uh of that nature, especially with someone like Gage was had the knee injury as is. Keaton Wynn has had the history of arm stuff. So it kind of just all falls into this melting pot of yeah, this is a learning curve for these teams. Um I think the Rafi Debras one for me was just really weird.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

Yeah, like going all big picture and whatever.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

Yeah, like that, like I don't want to get into like the the grander, like, yeah, he's gonna be here for a while. That was just really weird. Like, even if it was, he did believe this a hamstring to like because if you really listen to the like when he talked to the media two days later, like he was done answering a question, and then he like went out of his way to be like, This is all your guys' fault. And I was like, that that just makes it worse. Like, I think if you just cut it off there, it would have been fine, but that just made it that just made it a lot worse. And you know, there's a lot that happened in the first half, and Shayna, we still got 66 games left to go uh in the second half. Where can we find your work, Shayna?

SPEAKER_00 54:20

At the San Francisco Chronicle, sfchronicle.com.

SPEAKER_01 54:24

SfCronicle.com.

SPEAKER_00 54:27

And at my Twitter you can read stuff.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Yeah, Shana Rubin. Uh follow her on Twitter, read her at the San Francisco Chronicle, Justice Delos Santo, Shayna Rubin, Splash Considerations. We will catch you in the second half.