Episode 8 - The Hot Dog That Changed Fine Dining: Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara

What if the difference between a good business and an unforgettable one comes down to one thing: how you make people feel? In this episode of Stacks and Strategies, we dive into Unreasonable Hospitality: The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect by Will Guidara, the former co-owner of Eleven Madison Park, the restaurant he helped transform into the #1 restaurant in the world.

Guidara's bestselling book reveals how obsessive attention to the guest experience—what he calls "unreasonable hospitality"—can become the ultimate competitive edge in any industry. From the famous hot dog story to systematizing surprise and delight, this book is a masterclass in turning ordinary transactions into extraordinary moments that build fierce customer loyalty.

In this episode, we cover:

• What "unreasonable hospitality" really means and why it's not just for restaurants
• The difference between service and hospitality—and why it matters for every business
• How to empower your team to create memorable customer moments
• The art of being "present, attentive, and intentional" in client relationships
• Practical ways to systematize delight without losing authenticity
• How small, thoughtful gestures drive word-of-mouth marketing and brand loyalty
• Lessons for entrepreneurs, leaders, and anyone in a client-facing role

Whether you run a small business, lead a service team, or want to elevate the way you serve clients, this conversation will reshape how you think about customer experience and competitive differentiation.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome to Stacks and Strategies where we go through stacks of books and pull out the strategies for business owners to apply. We're three business owners and advisors that work with small and medium-sized businesses on a regular basis. We've come together to share our passion for learning and in particular business learning. Knowing that business owners are very busy, their time to read is sometimes limited, and the volume of books makes it difficult to know what to read and what not to read. We still recommend reading for all business owners. If we can accelerate the process or reduce some of the effort, then we know our local businesses will improve. Our goal is to highlight the quality of the content and help the reader know if it applies to them. In short, our purpose is to cut through that uncertainty so the listener can choose to apply as we have shared, choose to learn more, or move on to some other topic so that they can improve their business in their lives. I'm John Davis, a business coach with an action coach, and I know that businesses grow to the level of the owner. By learning, we improve. So I want to support that growth through learning. I work with owners to provide clarity on their destination, how they're going to get there, what they need to learn to be successful and achieve their goals. So, Wendy, would you like to introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Okay, my name is Wendy Pace with Pace Setting Media, where marketing is a marathon, not a sprint. We're here to help businesses meet their potential clients and clients that they have online on the social media platforms that they utilize.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Hi, I'm Jess Viegas, principal at Acuity Business Consulting. Acuity demystifies the challenge of translating talent and resources into exceptional and sustainable organizational performance by surfacing actionable clarity and providing execution expertise in the areas of strategic design, financial management, operational excellence, and leadership development so that leadership can confidently navigate their organizations towards next level performance.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Okay, so this week's book was uh chosen by Jess, and Jess is going to walk us through it. So, Jess, what do you have for us?

SPEAKER_02 2:02

All right, thanks, John. So our book today is going to be Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guadara. It's a book that on the surface is about running one of the world's best restaurants, but at its heart, it's really about how we create memorable, meaningful experiences for people that we serve. Uh what I think, um just to let the cat out of the bag, I really like this book up front, so it'll kind of tell you where I'm going to rank it. But uh what's compelling about the book is how it invites us, whether we're running a business, managing a team, or simply serving clients, to shift our mindset from transaction to transformation. Guerrera challenges the idea that excellence is only that excellence is only about efficiency or scale, and or instead, he says that deep lasting impact comes from moments of care, surprise, and intentionality. Uh I'm especially excited to explore here with my uh with you guys here today. I want to start off by just telling a real quick personal story about experiences. So uh my wife recently had uh a dinner where she was I saw all the preparation, I was seeing all the sausages be being made. I thought, I don't know why you gotta clean the baseboards when people are gonna come here and eat pasta at your house. But she did it. And then I don't know why you need to have those flowers versus that flower, but she did it. And I don't know why this candle is better than that candle, but she did it. And I started realizing that part of the joy for her was actually doing the preparation. And I said, I hope all your friends show up because you're working so hard. And she said, It's okay, I just want to do something for them. And I realized at that moment that the real joy was that everything she was putting in when the lunch all uh uh happened, it actually turned out to be a very nice experience. And then I reminded my wife this is the this is the uh punchline, that we went to a restaurant when we first got married many, many years ago. And all I remember about that meal, it was a $140 meal when back in the 70s. And the reason it was $140 meal is because we accidentally ordered a bottle of wine that was $60 in the 70s. And I can't remember anything about that food or the wine except that it was such a great experience, the way we were treated, the way the plate looked. Who knows what the wine tasted like? And it was just a wonderful experience, and I realize those things kind of stay with you. But you have to still do very specific things to generate those experiences. And so unreasonable hospitality, at least in the book, is hospitality is not just it sort of around serving people in restaurants and hotels, it's how you serve them in your businesses. So anyway, that's kind of my opening uh salvo here. So I guess I'd like to start by maybe I'll reach out to Wendy first. Uh Wendy, um, how did you how do you how did you accept I think the messaging that the book was trying to convey?

SPEAKER_00 4:51

I love, love, love this book, which is bizarre for you and I because we don't usually like the same books. I love this book. Not only because I worked New York hospital, I worked in the hospitality industry when I was in college, I I worked for as a caterer, not as, yes, I worked as a caterer, but I worked as a server, right? I was 15. My first job was working for a catering company, serving people at bar mitzvahs and weddings on Long Island. So been around hospitality for a very long time. Love this book. I love the concept because he talks about taking care of his team as well as taking care of the customers and understanding that if he took care of his people, his people will take care of those who come in, right? If you care about your workers, they're gonna care about the customers. And that resonates with me 100%. It's the core part of my company, ACT Media. I want to make sure that I'm taking care of my team, not only because I understand that they're caretakers in their own life and what they do with me allows them to be home and be that caretaker. So I try to support them in every way that I can. And I always tell them if you have a problem, bring it to the team and we'll support you and help you get through it. So I love this book. I think everybody needs to read this book. Customer service at the end of the day is not just taking care of the customer, it's taking care of the team.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

John.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Yeah, I also loved it. Um, of of all the books we've read, this is the one that I have referred the most. Uh, it was interesting. Uh, in this one new client that I'm working with, I recommend it to their team. And then uh a number of people went to an industry event a couple of months ago, and that book was recommended and highlighted within the education program of the uh thing. So absolutely love it. There's everything about it. And just I have three points that I think I just want to make sure I get out. It was all about, you know, you excel in business by doing extra for your customers. You talked about the team, and you do it by working through the team. The owner doesn't have to do it all. You have to empower the team to do it, which means you have to get them on board and passionate about your passion for unreasonable hospitality. And then also it's persistence and determination that you can always be better because they're in a world of they're already the elite of the elite, right? They were a top 50 restaurant and they were striving to be number one. So they didn't quit. But there was a process to it. And that process was very detailed, but it was still fun, which I think a lot of people go, oh, process is systems. Oh my gosh, it's very boring. But he made it fun, and it all started with listening and creativity. So those are my takeaways, right? I just want to make sure I get them out there because I love the book. But it was excellence, teamwork, process, have fun, be creative.

unknown 7:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

So I have uh I have some extended connections to the book. One is that there's a popular show out called The Bear, and it's about a high-level restaurant owner that came back home to Chicago from France or wherever he was to help run a diner in Chicago. And the show is just really a popular show, and I love watching it. The other connection is that my daughter is an executive at a hospitality company, and she's sort of indirectly let me see some of the other things he's done with their organization. They have a partnership. And so I've seen some videos and some other talks and things that where you can really elaborate on the process. And one of the things that he drives home, which I think is a really good tension to address in the book, is the idea that there's always this inherent tension between managing your cost, it's a business after all, and then also doing for the customer. And a lot of people see these as a kind of a they're at they're at odds, right? Diametrically does. That's right. That's a better way to say it. If you do more for the customer, you're gonna do you worry less about the cost. And if you do more in the cost, you're gonna worry less about the customer. And the book goes a long way towards saying, well, first of all, you gotta understand the back of the house versus the front of the house. And every business has a back of the house and the front of the house. There's your customer-facing sides of your business, and there's the back where the sausage is being made and all the work's being done. And I have a particular bias for really understanding the inner workings of how the business is going to make money, and at the same time still meet the objective of giving its customers kind of the service that they deserve. There aren't a lot of books that do that. Usually they're addressing here's how you sell more or here's how you make things less expensive. But I think for a hospitality person to make that conclusion, I think uh was really powerful for the book. I don't know if either of you saw either that or some other message in the book outside of just the very basic hospitality message.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

I I think you trigger a couple things there. One, he talks about pleasing customers doesn't have to be expensive. Sometimes it's a two-dollar hot dog that makes everybody happy. To your point about back of the house, front house, and also the bear, and I don't know if we're gonna go in deeper. Sometimes the kitchen was part of the experience. If you've ever worked in a restaurant, the back of the house and front of the house, there's a reason there's a wall between them because otherwise they kill each other, right? Sometimes it's very much at odds. And it actually brought the team together. The one other thing you mentioned, and I haven't seen that show with the bear, but I'm picturing he's some domineering chef who's angry and yelling and screaming all the time. I don't know if that's why they call him the bear, but my restaurant experience, a lot of times the head chef was kind of a jackass and mean and nasty. And that was the culture years ago, because he was the big chef. He could yell at everybody like he was a general and belittle everybody. And that goes right in the face of hospitality. That does not put your team in the mood to please their customers and be happy and be creative because everyone's afraid of getting yelled at. So I don't know, I rattled all over the place there, Jess.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

But just a clarification on my I didn't make this clear. So he was an advisor on the show, but things in his book that he did made their way into the show. Right. And so that's where you could kind of see the manifestation. But I think you're pointing to something that that uh that Wendy started out by saying is that uh you know, hospitality sort of comes in different ways. And taking care of your that's a that's an axiom that holds true in so many businesses, that your employees will treat your customers the way you treat your employees. I mean, just why wouldn't they? Absolutely. So you don't even need a business degree to figure that one out. But so many people don't get that message.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

But this book brought it to life. Yeah. Like you can hear it mentally and go, yeah, that it makes sense that they're that way. But reading these stories and these anecdotes made it exciting and fun.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

And I've always seen that the attitude starts at the top, right? And the way the executive team feels about the frontline team is gonna be conveyed. And that's what the front line is gonna convey to the customer. Whether you're in a nonprofit organization or a for-profit organization, the way you view your staff and the way you treat your staff is the way your staff is gonna treat your customer at the end of the day. So if they don't feel valued, they're not gonna value the person walking through the door or asking for your service. And this book hits it nail on the head with this. He understood that he had to take care of his people that were working for him, that were coming in. He understood that they came with a passion. You don't go into hospitality unless you have a passion for people. It is physically demanding, it is mentally excruciating at times, because no matter what you do, sometimes you have a customer who you cannot please, no matter how much you try. And you still have to smile and say, Thanks for coming in. Hope you come back. And that sometimes is the hardest thing to do. And no matter what, in business, you're gonna have that customer, you're gonna have that client that no matter what you do, they're just not gonna appreciate it. And sometimes you have to walk away and go, okay, I'm just not the person for you. And sometimes you have to say, No, we need to sit down and figure out where are we dropping the ball with you? What is that expectation that I'm not managing? And that's a lot of it as well. Do we manage the expectations of the people we're serving? You have to be up front.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

I think that Will Goudar does a really good job of uh helping, at least me understand that it's how you treat your employees, is how they'll treat the customers. But part of how you treat employees is not treat them really nice and fun so they'll be good and fun to the customer. It's actually creating some accountability for both sides. I'm always I'm always enamored with the term accountability. Accountability management always means we gotta make people accountable instead of being personally accountable themselves. It's a lack of accountability if you won't help an employee rise to the level that they need to rise to. So now you've got to call them on the carpet if they if there's something to be done. You can do in a compassionate way. But it isn't all I want my employees to be happy so that the customer will be happy. I want the employees to be responsible and dependable so I can trust them to serve the employee properly. There's lots of of customer service stories about, I can't remember them all, but one is that uh Ritz Carlton used to give a budget to some of their employees where they could comp a customer for anything. Right. They could comp a room, but they could comp anything as long as uh and they didn't have to go get all kinds of approval if the idea was to improve the customer experience. But you've got to have a lot of trust to do that. And the only way you create that trust is create accountability on both sides. So I thought the book did a nice job of that.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Well, I think he demonstrated it too. You know, a lot of the stories in the book. We're talking about the times that he was out there running the food and delivering the food, and he was on the front lines in the busy in the middle of the busy periods, and he was doing it with them. So it it wasn't just Will saying, Hey, we need to surprise our customers. He was doing the surprising and the delighting. So he was walking the talk, is the first thing I thought. The other thing that I liked is they were doing all these little surprises, and he talked about how it got to be overwhelming to the team. Like they couldn't keep up with all the ideas and they had to systematize it. And I think that was also Will and his team, including the employees, realizing hey, what we're doing is not scalable. We have to look at this differently, not just work harder, right? It would have been very easy to say, well, we just delight our customers, and that's just what we do, particularly in the restaurant industry. You know, I'm just gonna power through. You know, it's hard, just work harder, right? And he was willing to take responsibility for, hey, I've started this thing to get to the next level. We got to change what we do as leaders and make different decisions so that the team can continue on. I think sometimes we abandon that and just expect harder workers.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

For me, accountability, and I guess it's just a matter of uh semantics, right? I think the word today is probably more engagement. If the employee is engaged in what they're doing, they're gonna service the client or the customer better. It's a buy-in that you have to convince. I don't even think you have to convince. They either buy in and they're engaged in what they're doing, or they're not. And I've I think a lot of times, especially with my team, we post a lot of content that can be monotonous. We have like 30-something tree companies right now, and it can become a little blinding when you're posting so much content about trees, then you're just like, I don't want to hear enough about another spruce. I don't care about this type of bug or whatever. And I try to remind them that it's important for that industry, right? They're they're looking at it. This is their be all and end all. Those guys that have these tree companies are all about that. So remember you're servicing this client to the best of your ability. Find ways to stay engaged with the content so that you don't miss post. And that's that's a struggle. That's a struggle we're all on. Every single person on my team handles a certain amount of tree companies. And we're all struggling with that same issue of going, okay, this is my 16th post about, you know, stump grinding today. I'm I'm losing my mind. Step away, choose another client because we like to mix it up a little bit, but just step away and just remember if that was your business, how would you want it to be presented? And I try to keep them in that mindset. If this was your company, how would you want to present that? That engagement is is key when you're trying to service clients, it's staying connected. At the end of the day, what are we doing for you and why are we doing it?

SPEAKER_02 17:23

I think one of the uh shifts for me, it was a big shift, is that uh when I think about hospitality, I think of what most people do. You know, you're serving people and and typically you're thinking about restaurants and hotels and but what the book points to is that is treating hospitality as uh it's a customer thing, of course, but it's really a system, right? It's a set of ways that you want to operate that can work well across industries. That's what makes it a system. Otherwise it's just a hospitality thing, right? That tends to fall right in the middle of the type of work and things I like to think about. And I feel like when you when someone has the permission to take a really good idea from another industry and you apply it in your industry because you know you're really applying a principle, not necessarily a specific task or a specific uh action. I'm just wondering, were there any did you find anything? I'm I'm gonna go to John here in a second so he can think of an answer uh while I'm finishing my sentence. But is there any sort of shift that you might have taken from the book that you didn't have before, similar to the one I just had, you know, that I just mentioned, that I see hospitality now as a system versus an action? Uh anything like that come out of the book for you?

SPEAKER_01 18:32

I mean I think the biggest shift was uh that doing something special for people doesn't have to be expensive. And it doesn't have to be a big deal. Not that it is isn't a big it is a big deal, but it doesn't have to be a Herculean effort. It's by listening and caring. And when you if you listen to what people are saying and you care about them having a better experience, more than likely the solution will come to you and it doesn't necessarily have to take it doesn't have to break the bank. Yeah. That's probably the biggest shift for me.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

That is a good one, right? Because when we want to do something, how many times just when people are gift giving at Christmas, oh, this is not expensive enough? You know, when it's really the thought that you're really trying to deliver.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Right. When really the most important thing might have been asking them about their spouse by name or their kids by name, or which again, that's not even unreasonable hospitality. That's just doing the bare minimum. But yeah, exactly. But I'm an engineer, sometimes I need training. How about you, Wendy?

SPEAKER_00 19:31

One of the things I changed was that the people who work for me mostly are contract workers. And I kind of give them their assignments and I just let them be. And in the last, I don't know, four months, five months, we now have a chat, a group chat, and I check in with them. And it used to be they only heard from me when they messed up, right? And they were like, oh god, what did I do? And not that I was like, you know, you did this, I'm like, hey, there was an error, we have to fix this, whatever. And one of them found out that something that I managed, one of the clients I managed, I had made a mistake on. And I was like, Oh, can you go in and fix this for me because I was out of town? And they were like, You made a mistake. And I was like, Yes, people, I'm human and I I too make errors, but I catch mine, but it's okay. And they were so happy to see that I wasn't this, you know, up on this pedestal of perfection, which Lord, if you know me, I'm far from. But I started checking in with them. And because all of my people are caretakers, I started checking in on the people they were caring about. And so they were like, Oh, thanks for asking. Like one of my mom's son was having a surgery. I was like, How did that go? And she was like, Oh, you remembered? I was like, Yeah. And she was like, Well, I have my laptop here by the I was like, you know, we can handle your accounts for you. You don't have to work by your son's bedside, even though I've done that myself for my daughter. She was like, I know, but I want to make sure that it gets, I didn't want to put anything on the team. And so I realized I was like, Oh, okay, well, we're here for you. And I let I started letting all of them know that. And it's changed the dynamic of my team. They now feel cohesive because we we just by that little group chat. If somebody's having an issue or somebody has to change something, or somebody has to take care of a sick kid, can somebody cover me? I've got to do XYZ. And that has made them more engaged in their work and making sure that they're meeting the obligations and they self-govern themselves. And I never was a micromanager. I may have had my hands off too much sometimes. Like, oh yeah, I gotta cover that. Now they cover each other. It's it's definitely changed the dynamic of the company just by me going, Hey, how you doing? How's it going? What do you guys need?

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Um, I can think of a specific thing that you would consider us with. And maybe not in the most traditional sense, but something that's stuck with you. And so I'm going to ask you guys if if you can remember one of those things in your life, but I'm going to tell you one of mine that's really sort of an outlier. But but this is, I think, what hospitality is. So I have a friend of mine who over the last 25 years we've gone backpacking and hiking everywhere. And they're grueling hard hikes, and we're doing things like managing our food and managing the weight and how much water we're carrying. And when we stop to rest, or we stopped to have dinner, and he relates up the little propane thingy and makes the coffee and and then I'm, you know, putting my feet in the creek too because we're hiking him for four hours or 14 hours. And uh and I didn't know he was doing this, but I caught him one time. I was walking up on him, and whenever he made the the you know, the rice and the beans and the high carb stuff, he always gave me a little bit more than him. He didn't know that that I caught him doing that. And of course, I weighed 30 more pounds than him, so he probably thought I needed it. But I thought to myself, isn't that nice? I mean, he that's unreasonable hospitality. I mean, he he could have said 50-50, we're out here, it's 100 degrees, I'm getting mine. But that small kindness just makes me think uh one is I picked the right friend. But number, but number two is I don't know if he's done that every time or only that one time, but it just shows you how it stuck with me. And I'm saying that's unreasonable hospitality, even though we were in the Grand Canyon somewhere and it wasn't his house, but it was his place to make the food. And he said, I'm gonna give my friend more than I'm gonna give myself. So, you know, that's a little bit out there, but wondering, do you guys have anything in your sort of memory that sort of rings true like that? Doesn't have to be that obscure, but rings true for you.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

When I was first starting out, I had a pest control company as a client, and my family and I were heading out for Labor Day weekend. We were driving out to Charleston, and I was just scrolling, I saw that the pest control company had somebody who was looking for a termite bond. So it's it was Friday on that holiday weekend, and it's like seven o'clock, and we're still on the road. And I called him and I said, You've got a potential client in Messenger through Facebook that's looking for a termite bond. And I knew how much those went because he'd done mine. And then I was like, I I want you to get on this so that you don't lose that. And he's like, Wendy, it's a holiday week. And I said, I know. He goes, Why are you calling me? Not because he was upset that I was interrupting him, he was impressed with the fact that I was on my way on to be on vacation with my family, but I'm still working his account. And I said, That's because that's what I do. Taking care of you and being concerned that you don't miss an opportunity is important to me. Why else would you hire me? And he was so impressed with that. It paid for myself, it paid for the the service, and he was like, Thank you. I got he I got the client because it was a Friday. This person was desperate, they were trying to close on a house and they needed that termite bond in order for their house clothing to go through. So I I think that is my unreasonable hospitality.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Yeah. What about you, John? I feel bad because I can't think of one, but I know I've seen them and I've experienced them. They're just not coming to mind.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

But what did come to mind is the opposite. As I've talked about this book with people, and I've talked about doing something extra. You know, I think in New Orleans it's the Lanyap doing a little something extra, right? It's a little something extra, a little extra special or something. And whenever I talk to people about that, one was a business owner as auto repair. And I was talking to her about, you know, what if instead of giving people their their keys back with a paper tag still attached to the number that they put on it, what if you every time you gave them was a an individualized keychain because you had their car and you know that they're into whatever, right? So if you were in my car, you'd see a saltball sticker for my daughter, right? So what if you just put a little saltball keychain on there, a little $1.50 type thing that's personalized that you'd probably would keep that on the keychain and people would be like, oh, well, where'd you get that from? Oh, it was the place that gave my auto auto repair. You talk about it, right? And their answer was, yeah, and I can put my name on it. I'm like, no. No, no, no. The extra isn't about putting your name on it and branding it. You're doing the extra because you care about the customer and it's about them. You can't make it any bit of it about self-promotion. So I don't have an answer, but I I want to make sure that gets out.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Yeah. Well, there needs to be some authenticity to the it's got to feel authentic. It's it can't feel like it's work or a grind. It's got to feel like oh great.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

You did that to me because you're marketing to me. Great. Right. Thanks. That really means a lot to me.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

All right. Well, I think we're at a point now where we're gonna have to uh rate the book. We don't have to, I guess, but we're gonna try and rate the book. And so I'll uh I'll uh let Wendy give us the first ranking on the book.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

It's right on the top of the stack. Everybody needs to read this book. Whether you're in business or not, because there's something that the customer can learn about being receptive to that extra service and appreciative of that extra service and recognizing it when it happens. I think there's a lot of me, me, me. I deserve this. I'm, you know, can I speak to your manager? People out there who don't appreciate when something's done for them. And so I think whether you're receiving a service or giving a service, I think everybody should read this book.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

Yeah, John?

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Yeah, I agree. I gave it a five plus. I was thinking about this question, and my first answer was going to be if you're in business and you want customers, you should read this book. Well, if you're in business and you expect to have a team, you should read this book. But as Wendy was talking, I'm like, it's not business. If you're in any organization that serves people or engages with people, which is all organizations, or if you have a team, which is all organized, you need to unless every everyone needs to read this book, uh like Wendy said. I mean, especially if customers and team are at the forefront. Which should be all of them.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Yeah, so I also gave it a five, and I I think the thing that stuck with me with the book is not only that it's a great message and it's grounded in good experience and good tenants and good principles, it's that it's actually really well written, too. It I mean, I could see where all of these things could have been communicated in a much less engaging way. But just the individual had uh Will Goudara had just uh an ability to to communicate in a way that just kind of helped my attention, besides all of the good stuff that was in the book. So I definitely gave it a five.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

And it was all stories. It was filled with stories. Right. And it was very inspirational. So I feel like you read this book and you feel good at the end.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Yeah, yeah, that's a good way to say that because I did feel good at the end. So all right, well, good. Well, I think uh I think that wraps up for this uh episode. So I guess uh hope you can join us next time for Stacks and Strategies, and we'll have another uh interesting book to review. Sounds great. Thanks, Chess.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

So just in conclusion, you have Stacks and Strategies. It's where we go through stacks of business books to pull out the strategies for business owners to learn to apply.