The CampHacker Podcast

Expectations vs Reality for Staff - with Jolly Corley and Kim Aycock - CampHacker #231

• CampHacker - from Go Camp Pro • Episode 231

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Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/camphacker/expectations-vs-reality-for-staff

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The Truth About Selling the Camp Experience to Gen Z

Join the team as they discuss the critical gap between what seasonal staff expect and the gritty reality of summer camp. The conversation explores why staff members often hit a wall three weeks into the season and how directors can prevent burnout by being radically honest during the hiring process. They dive into practical ways to connect mundane orientation tasks like cleaning docks or prepping equipment to the higher mission and values of the camp community.

Key takeaways include:

  • Connect Every Task to a Core Value. When orientation focuses primarily on cleaning and logistics without explanation, staff believe those are the only priorities. By explicitly linking tasks like raking or organizing to values such as respect and stewardship, you build a culture that sustains itself when the work gets difficult.
  • Lead With the Hard Truths During Recruitment. This generation of staff does not appreciate surprises and values transparency above all else. Sharing the most challenging aspects of the job, such as the demanding schedule or physical exhaustion, during the interview phase ensures that the people you hire are truly capable and prepared for the commitment.

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SPEAKER_05

Have you ever had a staff member come up to you and say, wait a minute, that's my job?

SPEAKER_00

This is Camp Hacker. Come find our show notes and our blog for camp directors and leaders at camphacker.tv.

SPEAKER_05

Running Camp comes with enough moving parts. UltraCamp keeps registration, payments, and communication in one place so you can spend less time juggling systems and more time building an incredible camp experience. Learn more at ultracampmanagement.com slash camphacker.

SPEAKER_04

Hello, Camp Mavericks, and welcome to the Camp Hacker Podcast brought to you by UltraCamp and the Camp Resilience Diagnostics. Hello, my name is Chris Hudson. I'm a consultant and a speaker helping camps and youth organizations build intentional, values-driven communities where young people and staff can thrive.

SPEAKER_02

And I'm Kim.

SPEAKER_05

And I'm Travis Allison. I am a summer camp consultant specializing in helping camps reclaim their staff time, build resilience, and reignite their purpose.

SPEAKER_02

And I'm Kim Acok, and I equip young leaders with the skills that robots can't do. And I consult with camps on most things that relate to the camp, the camp world. And right now, getting super excited about staff training.

SPEAKER_01

Hello, I'm Jolly Corley, and I run a children's camp in New Hampshire, um, where I get to work with those young staff and watch them emerge in their own leadership and helping them develop the skills that they'll need, not only in a camp, but in life. Um and I'm excited to be here today to talk about this.

SPEAKER_05

And we're excited to have you. Thanks, Jolly, for coming back. Uh Jolly, I'm not gonna spend too much time, but just remind folks of what camp you are you are directing.

SPEAKER_01

I am with Camp Robendell for girls on the beautiful Lake Winnipes.

SPEAKER_05

Amazing. Well, thank you for being back. And Kim, thank you for being back. We're grateful. You I think you did the first episode of the season and the last episode of the season.

SPEAKER_02

Bookens, I love it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're grateful you're here. So we wanted to talk today about um expectations of versus reality for staff members. And this again is a topic that comes out of um data that we did on the most common questions that camp directors have been asking on the internet. And um, I know that this aligns really well with the work that Jolly and Kim are doing together. So thank you for representing that and being here with us. I think staff expectations are an interesting discussion because my overall concern is not that we have expectations. I really believe in high expectations because I've seen people rise to them so many times. But my concern is how they are they are seasonal staff members store those expectations for three weeks after staff training when things get really hard. And excuse me, Kim, I wonder if you have thoughts to get us started today.

SPEAKER_02

Well, actually, the reason why Jolly and I kind of chose this topic to present at a couple conferences this spring is because of an email that you sent out in August with the staff that were like disgruntled because they were sort of sold and what their expectations, even if we back it up to before camp starts, uh, what they were sold, all the shiny parts of camp. Um, and then they get to camp and it's just not what they were thinking it was going to be. Um, and and you know, it this could happen through um all the way through from when they first you know see the website to interviewing to um onboarding to getting to camp orientation and then you know, um, but you were talking about, you know, you were given some some quotes from from staff that were, you know, posting very publicly on Reddit that they were not happy with their situation. Um, and Jolly can even tell you a story about a camp staff member who contacted her directly with that same concern. Um, so that's that's why we're here is because there's some things that we can be doing now until this the start of the summer, this on-ramp, to make sure that we're not overselling camp, that we're really how do we how do we give them the true expectations of camp and the reality of camp, but also but but not scare them away. We don't want to do that, you know.

SPEAKER_01

I think and I think to that, you know, as you as we look at that topic and to what you were asking about, Travis, like three weeks in, how they're storing that, that expectation that they're giving that orientation, right? So then three weeks in what it looks like. And I think one of the things that is so important to consider is when we look as camp directors, camp professionals, when we look at our orientation, what is the primary purpose of orientation? What are we doing the most of? So the example I give, I know we have to do this to get camp ready. We have to clean camp, we have to make you know, bunk beds, or if we're day camp, we have to get the spaces ready, whatever it is, the equipment ready. Of course we have to do that. But if that is the majority of the time spent in orientation, is cleaning, prepping, equipment, then that is what they see as the priority of camp. Right. So that is the absolute priority. If we're not focused on kids and uh community building and developing the culture that we want for our campers and our staff, if that's not the primary focus where they walk away from orientation and say, and someone asks, what's the number one thing this camp is concerned with, right? After orientation, and they're like community culture, kindness, and they just list your values, whatever it is. If they say, like, well, cleaning cabins, blowing up the soccer balls, yes, blowing up the soccer balls, raking the whatever, you know, folding the uh, you know, the towels, making the welcome sign, the welcome signs, great, like that can tie in. Those things have to happen, but I think it's the tying in, as my friend Kim says, it's connecting the dots, right? So, why are we making welcome signs? What are we asking them to do? So, like the difference between making a welcome sign and then making sure every kid's name is on that welcome sign, right? And then we talk about why is it we're doing it that way or whatever it is, the values, and we're incorporating. And I think it's totally fine to do the cleanup if respect is one of your values, right? Then it's how do we respect our environment so that we can be in a space that is clean and safe. And so you can do all those things, but we just have to be a little bit more intentional about connecting again the dots. Um, and in that way, three weeks in, as you mentioned, Travis, when we're at our staff meeting or whatever, we can begin to tie that in. Do you remember how important it was? We had that really big, cool discussion where you all threw out to us how you like to be respected. That was what I would do, right? I would just ask all the staff, how do you know you're being respected? What is it the way you're showing that? I just write all those down, I keep them someplace, bring it out at a staff meeting and say, you guys brought this to us. We loved it, we shared with you at camp that we feel respected when equipment's put away, not left out in the rain, so that we have to buy more equipment. We feel, and unfortunately, what we're finding over the last three weeks is things are being left out. We're not cleaning, right? So then you're connecting it back to the value, not you guys didn't put the stuff away. Right. And then it's about the stuff, not about the value of being respected. So I think that's where some of that gets lost is the three weeks in, if we ask our staff what's the most important thing, they're not actually able to say the values or the mission statement of camp. And then we're not able to tie it through.

SPEAKER_04

Right. Wow. Jolly just like transformed into me and said everything I was just going to say. So ditto, that was phenomenal. If you know anything about me, I'm always running around screaming about turning um values into actions and policies. And that's exactly what you're talking about, Jolly. Is that, you know, and um, you know, my background's in psychology and social work. So I use all of those tools to be a better camp director and manipulate everybody. Um all my constituents. It sounds terrible, but I swear I only use these powers for good. But you know, social identity theory says um people get part of their self-identity and motivation from their group membership. So when you set up a situation like, instead of saying, you know, we expect you as staff, we expect you to create an environment that is safe and inclusive and respectful. Say at Camp X, our values are safety, respect, and whatever. And so they can begin to understand, like, oh, that's this is what we do here, right? This is this is what we do here. And so in every situation, I know you know, camp highlight, uh, the camp I created is um highly values driven. Everything is on values, and we drill the kids so hard. You you walk into any situation, just look at a field and just go, hmm, how can we apply our values of of responsibility and respect to this field? Kids, and they'll raise their hands and be like, we can clean up, we can do this. And it's like, well, seems like I don't have to say anything at all. And they just go and they do it. And it's the same thing with the staff. It's sort of like when um in conversations with each other, because respect is one of our virtues, right? It's sort of like you'll hear them name check, like, okay, I really didn't like the way they said this to me earlier. Is there a more respectful way that you can say that? Like, because that's what we're doing here, is always a subtext. So yeah, absolutely a hundred percent. Um, yeah, I just wanted to say everything that Jolly said, uh, plus one check mark.

SPEAKER_05

I like Krista, you talked about uh having clear values that kids can identify and it's small because often you get to mission, vision, and values. Uh when you say that around a bunch of camp people, they tend to roll their eyes because it's sort of written and forgotten. But if you can make it um, if you can make it small or doable, like we used to say, um, in everything we do at camp, we're teaching kids how to become good decision makers. And that's why we had the 4S test, because we gave them a way to practice making good decisions in a safe environment. It's that's small enough that it's not about you know the seven values that we put together 30 years ago with that staff that's been on the website ever since. So I appreciate that it's it's it's grab-onable that you they can see it and and feel it in a small way.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and I think too, if they can, if we're talking about our values and we're introducing our values and we're incorporating our values from the very first moment that we have contact with them, then it's not a surprise. Like we're not like, you know, bamboozling them or whatever the word might be, you know, because they're, you know, so like if you do, because I do work, you know, the camp that I first started at, we spent a lot of time cleaning and setting up the docks and all of those kinds of things. And if we set that expectation early on so they know, and then we tie it into our values, like Jolly and Chris were mentioning, then it's then it becomes like, oh yeah, this is of course this is what we do, you know, and we might have some fun while we're doing it, and we might be bonding with our team, you know, our colleagues and our team teammates and our fellow staff, um, and you know, having a chance to get a little silly while we're doing all those things. So, um, which can tie into all the other values that you might have.

SPEAKER_01

So oh, I was just thinking one of the things that Kim and I talk about a lot is that like writing that through the whole entire like um uh process of someone becoming a staff member, right? It's you know, the website when they're seeing things. I mean, I'm sure um that when we're doing silly, you you know, you have the music on and everybody's, you know, whatever, uh sweeping the docks, right? Getting the docks ready. And you have people silly, whether they're wearing silly hats, whether they just have great songs and they're just dancing while they're doing it. What a great video. And then that's part of what staffing see, and they're like, oh, not only am I like gonna be cleaning docks and whatever, but they're having fun doing it. And then you can relate that. Like we have cleanup at camp, which is not everyone's favorite, right? Like it's just not. It's like cleanup is not no, no kid is like, I can't wait to go back to Robendell so I can do cleanup every day, right? But one of the things we encourage is having music, being silly, right? So then you're tying in, like we're gonna try and practice because no, nobody's like fans, like their favorite part of orientation isn't like cleaning the duck poop off of the docks. But when we do it and we have fun, um, and fun is one of our values, which is another thing that Kim, you um talked about what well, we had talked about like if fun is one of your values, how do people see that right away? And we were talking about the fact that if you have the forms that all the staff have to fill out, what happens when they, you know, when they complete it? Like, does the computer like throw confetti up in the air and say, yay, you completed your application, you completed your health form, or you whatever it was? And right there, before they even get to camp, they're seeing that wow, this is fun. It's silly, it's small, but like that's just like one of those ways you can keep tying those little things together.

SPEAKER_04

I need to Jolly has to stop going before me because the way that I have nothing to do. Yeah, the way that the way that she says everything that I that I just wrote down is um upsetting. So I I guess I'll pass. No, no, like and a thousand percent. I think first of all, fun as a value is something I actually never considered. Isn't that weird? I I just because fun's fun sort of suffuses all of it. I think my thing is like, um, and I said this in an earlier podcast that we did when if you lead with the fun, you're gonna get disappointment, right? Fun has to be a value amidst all the other ones because I've said this many times before. I think a lot of us we over-emphasize the fun because we feel bad that we're not paying them to do this, right? So I think that has to be deployed really carefully. Talk about the fun work balance and that it is a balance. It is a balance. Like you're not, you're you're going to have fun just like you have fun in college, but you're not here to have fun. Do you know what I mean? Right. Um the other thing I would say, I was just I was thinking back to uh like the opening question. It's like, how can we, or rather, how do we prepare people for like the midweek? We call it the wall at Camp Highlight. When you hit the wall, everyone swears they're not gonna hit it. Um, but halfway through, everyone's over it. And this is just something I was thinking about. I think it'd be helpful if your current staff, you get them to record a video after the wall, just talking about their their job. Of course, you're going to watch and edit all of these. But I think it'd be I think it'd be an interesting perspective to like cut that together and show like a new applicant or a new hire and be like, we know this is all fun and games, but I want you to watch this short four-minute video with a collection of staff sharing how they feel halfway through because you should start to identify with that. And they're gonna be like, we're exhausted, but it's great, like I'm up all night. I I've never had a schedule like this. I think people need to hear that from their peers because when we say it, they don't hear it. That when we say it, it's like, oh, it's really hard work. You know, that they're just they're looking at the beach volleyball court you have set up and they're like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. And it's like, no, it is work. So, and and Jolly, you don't get to go before me again because I I want to have some, I want to have one good original idea before this podcast ends.

SPEAKER_05

You're getting scooped. So that feels a lot to me like we have spoken about the the importance of beginnings, of the importance of them being on staff and how we set them up for that. Do you folks can I jump back? What how can we make sure expectations are clear and understood before the staff even arrives?

SPEAKER_02

I think it's that actionizing, like what's gonna happen. So, like if you do say we're gonna, you know, we're gonna give you support or you're going to be supported throughout the summer, well, what does that support look like? Like, I was talking to a camp director yesterday in Connecticut who she talks, you know, to her staff in the interview about like how they um take care of themselves and what their wellness plan is and things like that. And then she shows them like these cards that she's created, which are amazing. They're the self-care cards, and she showed she introduces this deck to them and then explains like how they're going to be able to use them during the summer. So if they need a nap, if they need caffeine, if they need to make a phone call home and those kinds of things. So it's it's very clear to this particular staff like what what how they are going to be supported. And the whole you know, administration team is all on board with this, and they're the ones who you know make it all, make it all happen. So I think we just have to be so careful about what we say and how we kind of clarify what that is. So because if we don't tell them, then they can make all these assumptions that we may they may, you know, or not be in line with what we had, what what we were thinking. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Just real quick, I mean, maybe this goes without saying, but then again, be really honest with the staff about. I mean, obviously you want to be honest with expectations, but I I don't mean something so top level. Whatever it is that you're afraid for staff to find out or know, lead with that.

SPEAKER_03

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Just lead with whatever it is. Like I'm thinking, in my experience, I think the thing that I feel most guilty about, other than the pay, um, is the schedule. It's like you're supposed to be up at 6 30 and this the council meetings at 10 30 and that's an hour long. And I think I'm always nervous about that. I don't know how I don't know how clear we make that in training. Um and I would just say lead with that. Because not it's not about starting with the worst thing and back ending. I just think whatever is you're nervous about, if you put it out there, I'm I'm sure it's not so dire. You can work it into the context. It's way better than hiding parts of the the job or the experience and just hoping that they will catch up. Um I will say this generation of young people, they don't enjoy surprises.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um, I mean, I I don't know if anyone did, but I I know other you know, older generations were told they had a roll with whatever was thrown at them. Uh this generation was not instructed that way. Um, so I think it'd be so it'd be very healthy to let them know whatever it is that you're afraid to tell them. Tell them that first.

SPEAKER_01

I I think I think this is absolutely so like when they're interviewing, you're you're telling them these things. The one the one thing I would just add, here's my check. Oh, sorry, Chris, I'm gonna do it back to you. Is that one of the things that when I'm interviewing a staff member, I I want to hear all about them. So the questions that I have are telling me about a time or you know, I just want to hear their story. I really am not, I always say, I want to know who they are rather than what they can do for me first, right? Because who they are is so important. That's at core, their values, how they handle something challenging. And so if the thing I'm afraid of is the schedule, then that's the question that's in my in my um interview. And it's like, tell me about a time when your schedule was just overwhelming and you had multiple things that were due or multiple things you had to be at, whether it's family events or work or school. And then if I really like feel passionate about this staff member, like I'm like, this person's it, then when I get to the end and I start then talking about camp, what I tried to do is connect and say, you know what? When you told me the story about having to be at your grandmother's 80th, but you also had a ball game and you had a big paper due, I knew that you're gonna be able to handle the schedule we have because we have the schedule where we get up at 6:30, we have an hour long 1030. And when you talked about that, I said, here's the person who can do this job, who's so capable. And then they already know that. And I'm telling them the reason I want you to come to camp because you're capable of doing the hard things that we need staff to do. And I think that is so important. It's why I like to lead with that, because then lead with like who they are and then lead with my parts of camp of what connects to them, right? So all of it, right? Like why, you know, why it is I think that they're gonna be a really good fit for our culture. Because then they see themselves there, right? Rather than just like, am I able to do that? Am I capable of that? I think it's another thing. We've made our kids a little fragile. And this is maybe a whole topic, but that we we've I was just talking about this last night with someone that when we rescue kids from like overnight situations and not just camp, like they're just gonna go spend the night with a friend, right? And they get upset. When that call comes from the other parent and it says, you know, she's really upset or he's really upset. I just think you have to come get him. When we go pick him up or her up, we've just said, you know what, I also don't think you're you didn't think you were capable and you were sad, but I also don't think you're capable. And so we've done it. And those are the kind of things that we the, you know, as Chris was saying, this generation has been wicked out being told, had their action, as we say, actions speak louder than words. So when we as adults do things like that to come in and rescue kids, we are saying, you're right, you're not capable of this. And so we as staff or director camp directors have to tell our staff you are capable, and here's how I know you are, because the interview process, you've told me a story that tells me you can do the hard things I need you to do.

SPEAKER_05

And I like that, Jolly. One of the things I've been had I all the time in the world, I would take on um how we do training and how we communicate with staff and how we get staff to properly absorb all the things we need them to. Um and who knows, maybe when everybody's at camp to summer, I'll start to pull it together. But um I I think a lot about that. And one of the things that I've been thinking a lot about is if we do training so that it works for neurodivergent folks, it's better for everyone. Everybody. And one of the things that is where I'm jumping off of what you said is one of the best things in terms of delivering expectations to staff or asking them to do something is a framework I learned from. Elle Mills, nope. Ellie Middleton. Elle Mills is a YouTuber. Ellie Middleton, um who has written a couple of really interesting books. Her simple thing is when we ask somebody to do something, we give them three pieces of information. What they have to do when we need it by and why they're doing it. And the why they're doing it means a lot more buy-in. It gives them like this is not just the thing you're inventing to make me do hard things. Um, but it also means you have a culture of people who know why we do things at camp in the end. And that that is a setup I think is is a great way to present stuff differently. I also think, and I'll I'll um actually put it in as um I may put it in as my tool of the week. Uh I saw a video just today which was a high school math teacher who does a lot of TikToks about her high school math setup, and she's a great TikToker, but she has invested in her classroom. Obviously, she's a teacher's gotten a point she doesn't have to shift classrooms every year or two. Um anyway, she's invested in her classroom, and one of the biggest things is that they aren't desks and rows. Um, and she's got different kinds of seating arrangements and and all of those things. It's like it this should be not every staff member sitting at a picnic bench watching turn sideways and watching someone down there. Um it we should be thinking about ways we can make this more engaging, more interesting, and more kind to the people that we have such high expectations of.

SPEAKER_03

I've been trying to think of a way like all winter to like like revolutionize and rethink staff training.

SPEAKER_04

I know. I'm just putting that out into the universe. If anybody's interested in ideas, contact me. But and and trying to come together with something. I think because not for nothing, but the amount of stuff that we have to tell staff seems to get longer every year. Uh definitely. But we don't get any more training time, right? We can't ask them to come a full other week earlier. You know, everyone's got constraints. So there's just gotta be I think there's gotta be a multimodal way to do the training to prepare people. Anyway, that's I'll just leave it there. But gotta use every tool in the toolbox to get people to learn stuff. And for instance, just one example, YouTube. Is there anybody younger than 25 that doesn't use YouTube to learn how to do anything? Well, let's lean into that. Right? They're already on the platform. Let's lean into it.

SPEAKER_05

Learn how to do your job. Exclusive for Camp Packer listeners. Grab UltraCamp's free guide, the parent experience checklist. Practical steps to simplify registration and keep families coming back. Download at ultracampmanagement.com slash camphacker. Parents don't want clunky processes, and you don't want constant phone calls. Ultracamp helps you simplify registration with mobile-friendly forms, offer payment plans that work for your families, reduce calls and emails with automated reminders, and keep parents engaged with built-in communication tools. Ultracamp helps you create smooth, stress-free parent interactions so your team can focus on camp, not customer service. Learn more at ultracampmanagement.com slash campacker. Well, I mean, this is also part of my this whole rethinking step training, but it's part of my communication framework that for communicating to parents as well as for communicating to staff is that we have to give them all the information and then break all that information down into the most important things that we're going to repeat a number of times and we're going to do them in different mediums. And that way we have a much greater chance of hitting different learners and the repetition at the right pace. And I think there's some really interesting lessons around um the study practices from Japan, how they've learned the proper pace of repetition to get things in, and um there's a lot of interesting opportunities for us to lead with this. That feels like a natural end to this. So I thank you all for this discussion. What I'm gonna do is move us on to our tool of the week.

unknown

Tool of the week.

SPEAKER_05

Today I want to start with Jolly for the tool of the week, please.

SPEAKER_01

It's me, it's me. I got this trail notes at uh Tri-State Conference, ACA conference. It's uh by Trellis Press, and I like it because it's for camp. I mean, they made it campy. There's actually three different journals. It's a journal and um it has little quotes in it, but I just thought it also So everyone on the podcast already knows because I said it before, but I like how it feels. It's like really soft and I'm a tactile person. Uh, when we talk about how, you know, earlier, as you were talking about all different kinds of learners. Not everyone's a journaler, not everyone is is writing things down. One of the things I do um with my staff though is um if I don't have paper for them to do, putting big sheets of paper so they can doodle. I I think some people are doodlers. It is okay. Like so putting crayons, I think some people are like, oh, they're not paying attention to me. And I'm like, I promise you, if they're doodling, they they need that. And and this could be if you happen to have the budget, or you could just get one for yourself. But if you have the budget to be able to get something like this for everyone, um, it's just uh, you know, the quotes are kind of interesting, but also it gives them a spot to doodle when you're at those meetings. But here's another, you have to connect. If you if you allow doodling, right? If that is something you're okay with, you need to say that because there'll always be somebody in the that's a little nervous to do it, or other people who are judging them. Like they were just doodling through the whole meeting and I was paying attention. So Tool of the Week is this beautiful um uh journal, I trellis press.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you, Jolly. Chris, what's yours?

SPEAKER_04

Um, great question. So I'm a nerd and I love board games, and I forced my staff to play board games. Uh yeah, that's not only been out paid a lot, but they got to play board games. But in all seriousness, you must have fun. Yes, before camp starts, um, and we we used to put a we used to put someone in charge of this one of the returners. Is that someone be in charge of running like two social groups on Zoom before camp starts? Right. So it's an opportunity for people to meet each other and chat before training starts, because part of our training is on Zoom and that's a long day. We do an eight-hour Zoom. So before that, people come in, they already have the inside jokes, they already have. So, how do we do that? We get them together, and um, there's a uh platform called Board Game Arena. I don't understand the logistics of this, but you can play any board game on board game arena, like with the graphics and all of it. It's it's I don't know how the money is exchanging hands because to me it feels like a giant lawsuit, but you can play anything from like Uno and Yahtzee all the way up to very complicated games like Arc Nova and Terraforming Mars on this platform for basically free. And it's great to have everyone log on to that, have a Zoom window open, and you are playing a board game together while chatting. So I'm just putting that out there. If you are a nerd, uh you're you if you're a nerd, you already know about board game arena. Um, but if you're an aspiring nerd, check it out because it's a really easy way to bring people together and give them a function, get them get get them doing something while doing something else. That is, they're playing a game while they're also connecting and commuting.

SPEAKER_05

Great. I thank you, Chris. I have mentioned mine, so I'm going to put a TikTok in, which is this teacher talking about her classroom setup. Um, my other tool of the week, which I think is important, so I just want to say it. Um, and my other tool of the week is an electronic tire pressure gauge. Um, one of the things for our camp drivers is we expect them to sign off that they've inspected their vehicle. And one of the things that's always a pain, especially the old school ones, is checking the tire pressure. And it would be something we'd expect all of the time, but it needs to be recorded a few times a summer for insurance reasons. Uh and this one is just take the cap off, push down, it gives you the number instead of um having to bend way over and fiddle and put that metal thing in and then watch the bar pop out and see how many numbers are on the bar. And now this is nice and easy. So I'm gonna put that in as my my bonus tool of the week. Kim.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I have you've all set the bar pretty high for the tool of the week. Um, but I will say, um, Jolly, there is research on the doodling because as a teacher, I learn it's like 28 or 29 percent if of learners who are doodling actually they actually are grabbing more than the person who's not doodling. So I usually tell my students, like, unless you're doing Picasso, like you're you know, into this really big art project, then maybe you're not learning, but doodle, you know, doodle away. It's it's awesome. So I'm glad you mentioned that. Um, my tool of the week is from um Chad Littlefield, We and Me Um cards or We Connect cards. And this is a new uh version of his cards and they are future focused. It says talk your way into tomorrow. And I love I love that these are um he has a story that goes with it. And so he he talks about how questions can potentially edit the future. And so if somebody asked him one day, like, what would you like to do more of? And he kind of, you know, he said, uh, well, I grew up on, you know, the the Cape or something. I'd I really would like to do scuba diving more. And he didn't really think about it again until months later he was going to do a conference in Florida. And so he booked a day or two on the front or back end to go scuba diving, which is that thing that he really wanted to do more of. So that question truly edited his future. So not only are there questions like what is one thing life is teaching you right now on one side, but then on the back side, there's a word um and a drawing that kind of illustrates that word. And so you can have them all laid out on the on a table and have people come in and you can give them a prompt and you can have them so like for staff training, you can have this really cool prompt and have them pick their card and then you know, share with a partner, share with a couple people, kind of kind of thing. So lots of um, lots of good uses for this this tool. Thank you, Chad Littlefield.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you, Chad Littlefield. That also is um, I've talked a lot on on CarePacker at different times about giving our staff social scripts to get them through awkward moments. And on the previous episode, we're talking about a script with parents, but I give staff a script for conversations with kids because it was our expectation that staff could have had would have checked off that they've had a 30-second conversation with each kid in their care every week that was just focused on that child, not the whole group moving from place to place in a group experience. Um, and we started to feel that staff were kind of struggling with what is a conversation um and how we do it. And so uh my framework was, you know, what do you find interesting? Tell me more, which is and and my mnemonic is Ian for the guy who noticed me when I was 13 years old. Um, interesting and next. And so I think that next piece is really interesting, Kim, because the future in those cards, I don't think I mean kids have people ask them where they want to be when they grow up, but they don't often have kids who or people are really interested in like what's the next couple of weeks for you or what happens after camp, or it just that kind of attention I think is powerful from kids. So I'm glad that there's another tool to echo that. So thank you. Thank you all for a uh for a great discussion. Kim, if people want to get in touch, follow up with you, how do they do that?

SPEAKER_02

Uh you can find me on my website, Kim Acok A Y C O C K dot com or Kim D as in Davidacock at gmail.com. And then I love to be on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn and um Instagram, Kim underscore acock underscore.

SPEAKER_05

Your middle name's David?

SPEAKER_02

No, it's Denise, but I always say David. I don't know why. I just always say David. Delta Maybecause my I know that's the what is it though? What alphabet is that? The military, yes. I should know that. I have a husband in the military. But yes.

SPEAKER_05

Kim Delta ACOC. All right.

SPEAKER_04

Jolly, how can people get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_01

Thank you, Chris. I mean, I appreciate that. Um you can connect quick meet Jolly, J O L L Y at Robindell, R-O-B-I-N, as a nancy d-e-l.com. I also have a website which is just jollycorly.com. And you can connect with me there. Thanks. Fantastic. So is your middle name, Nancy?

SPEAKER_04

Would I let's do a whole nother hour on whose middle name is what. Um in the meantime. If the meantime, if you're looking for me, um leave a plate of snacks out. Depending on what it is, we'll see how it goes. Can't wait for that. Email me at uh planetchris at gmail.com. Check out my website, please, planetchris.net. I'm starting a innovative, fantastic new parenting group. It's for people who want to take on modern parenting. So you can check that out at planetchris.net slash village. I'm also on LinkedIn at Chris Hudson One. So please connect with me and let's do that whole networking thing.

SPEAKER_05

But Travis, if people want to find you, you can go to gocamp.pro or Travis at gocamp.pro is my email address. And we're always happy to hear about this. Um, thanks to to Jolly and Kim for being on our last show of this our 16th season, 15th season of Camp Hacker. Um, we're grateful to have you both. And Chris, thank you for an amazing year of great conversations.

SPEAKER_04

I I love you and I love Camp. So this is the easiest lift for me all week. Easiest lift. Amazing.

SPEAKER_05

I gotta close us out by uh highlighting the Camp Code podcast. Many of you will be listening to this, it'll be prepping staff training. And uh Camp Code's entire entire show is about staff training, and they have about 12 years of episodes on staff training. And um I think a lot of people that you know and respect in the industry have been guests on uh on Camp Code, and um it'd be a good resource for you to search in your podcast app for the Camp Code Podcast.

SPEAKER_04

And we want to thank again our guests this week and the sponsors of this week's episode, as well as our editor, Ryan Van der Torn and GoCamp Pro's executive producer of podcasting, the inimitable Matt Wilfred.

SPEAKER_05

Thanks for the evening, friends.

SPEAKER_00

The Camp Hacker Podcast is brought to you by Beth and Travis Allison, Summer Camp Leadership Training and Marketing Consultants. Thanks for listening. Camp Hacker is bringing your world into focus.