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Pause, Plan, Play to Win - with Executive Coach Tiffany Yvonne - The Day Camp Pod #138

• Go Camp Pro • Episode 138

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Find show notes and more at https://gocamp.pro/day-camp-pod/pause-plan-play

Burnout doesn’t have to be the cost of caring deeply about your work. In this episode of The Day Camp Pod, executive coach Tiffany Yvonne returns to share a powerful framework, “Pause, Plan, Play to Win.”, that helps camp professionals realign their values, reclaim their energy and lead with intention. From navigating high pressure environments to building self trust and resilience, this conversation is packed with practical strategies you can use right away. If you’re feeling stretched thin or ready to lead (and live) more sustainably, this episode is a must listen.

  • 03:11 From Camp To Corporate
  • 04:08 Athletes Under Pressure
  • 06:12 Power Of Camp Play
  • 09:45 Burnout And Self Care
  • 13:56 Camp Is Everywhere
  • 15:43 Pause Plan Play Framework
  • 20:04 Resilience and Rest
  • 21:14 Feelings as Data
  • 22:51 Self Trust Decisions
  • 27:08 Coaching Framework
  • 30:27 Personal Why Story
  • 33:44 Retention and Alignment
  • 38:14 Camp Skills Beyond Camp

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Episode Links: 

How a ‘quit list’ can help you play to win - Tiffany’s TED Talk

Coach Tiffany Yvonne - Leadership & Life Coach

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It’s so

SPEAKER_04

In this special episode, we welcome back former Daycamp pod host Tiffany Yvonne to discuss her transition from camp director to corporate trainer, working with high school and collegiate athletes to take them to their peak potential. It's all about camp and aligning our personal mission, vision, and values with our work. Particularly relevant this time of year as many of us are feeling a bit overwhelmed or burnt out. We also discuss staff, self-care, and decision-making skills in maintaining our camp and personal mission in our fast-paced camp environment. Tiff has a lay with words that we all love. So kick back and enjoy.

SPEAKER_03

This is the Daycamp Pod. This is the Daycamp Pod from Go Camp Pro, bringing you the best ideas, strategies, and discussions in the daycamp industry. You can find our show notes at daycamppodcast.com.

SPEAKER_02

The Daycamp Podcast is brought to you by CRS, commercial recreation center, go to source for recreation solutions that will ensure that your camp rides. Explore their website today. CRS is Let me tell you about Camp Miner, the number one camp database in the world. It has the most robust offerings anywhere. Every feature works together to create a policy system that helps your camp office run more efficiently while giving your campaigns state-of-the-art communication and financial. Check out the details at campminer.com.

SPEAKER_04

AM Skyre is the leading insurance and strategic partner for many of the finest camps in America. AM Skyre partners with camps to provide public relations, legal, medical, behavioral support, and more. Experience the AM Skyer difference. Learn more at AMSkyer.com. Welcome back to the Daycamp Podcast. I'm Andy Pritiken, Director of Liberty Lake in the Philly Suburbs, New Jersey.

SPEAKER_00

I'm Sam Thompson of Crystal Lake Park District, Crystal Lake, Illinois.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm Jordan Grossinger, Director of Camp Robin Hood in Ontario, Canada.

SPEAKER_04

And boy oh boy, are we lucky we have back, ladies and gentlemen, our former co-host for a whole bunch of years? It's Tiffany Ivan. Come on, give it up. She's looking good and purple like the old days. It's good to see you, Tiffany. It really is.

SPEAKER_05

So good to be back with you all.

SPEAKER_04

And Tiffany could not believe, Sam. I need you to help with this. Tiffany could not believe that people don't come up to us and say, hey, whatever happened to Tiffany lady. She was so cool. She was so awesome. She had so much good things to say. I I still get that. Yeah. I want you to know.

SPEAKER_05

You influence people. They remember you. So funny. I'm like, stop trying to make me feel good, Andy.

SPEAKER_04

I'm like, no. I am not just saying that. I'm saying it because it's real. And it's funny because we didn't record a show last week, and and our producer Rachel was like, Well, which what should we put up? And I was like, put up like an old one. I gave her a bunch of choices. And she ended up putting up our second episode of all time. And I and I was listening to Aaron Gluckstein with Sam. And that was a blast for the past. So now we got Tiffany. So this is wonderful. Everybody, we're going to get the whole thing. And we got Jordana now. So it's a beautiful, beautiful thing. So, Tip, what have you been up to since we saw you last?

SPEAKER_05

Oh my gosh. So a myriad of things. You know me. I'm never staying in one place too long. Could be good, could be bad. But I I jumped from the camp world, but can I say mid-COVID and decided to take really camp talents to the corporate space? All the things we teach in camp around, you know, being a good person, overcoming adversity. I heard someone say emotional, emotional intelligence is the curriculum of camp. And so really, because we were mid-pandemic, there were so many of my peers from my former accounting life and just the corporate world in general was in a flux because of hybrid work. And, you know, no one was going to take it anymore because we all could die. So corporate was freaking out, like we're going to lose all of our people. And so finally they cared, you know, about the people. And so really went back into the corporate space teaching many of the ideals that we teach in camp, how to get through hard things, how to keep going when you want to quit, how to retain and engage your people, and did that work really until last June when I found myself in a gym in Augusta, Georgia, of all places. I was looking around, expecting to just be mom in that gym. And all I could see was burned-out kids and screaming coaches and you know everyone just under this immense amount of pressure to perform perfectly. And I was like, oh, oh, I'm at work. This is a mess. Who's gonna help these kids? And the craziest part was, and this is kind of how we got to this full circle moment today. Many of those kids were kids who grew up in my sports camp who were now, you know, when they were this smaller than me, now they're giants, you know, much bigger than me. And I could just see those lessons that we taught them in camp not being applied. It's like, hey, somebody needs to do something about this. I looked for other people. There was no somebody, so I guess I'm somebody. And so I shifted that curriculum. We created a camp play, took to corporate, and I shifted it back to the lens of high school and collegiate athletes. And I have been delivering that for the last almost year now. So super exciting, full circle moment.

SPEAKER_00

Are you still doing your bi-weekly newscast spot on the news?

SPEAKER_05

So it's not bi-weekly anymore. It was bi-monthly. So it wasn't bi-weekly, it was bi-monthly. And so not bi-monthly, but really privileged and grateful to be able to say, like kind of on demand. So when I have something, I just hit the producers up and I'm like, this will be a hot topic. It's trending now, and it would be good for your listeners. And they kind of give me carte blanche, which is wild to believe. We were talking before we hopped on here about how when I did my first news segment with Cant, shaking in my boots. Now I'm like a that's amazing.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, it's awesome. So I in the show notes, we'll have all of Tiff's social media and her new organization and all that kind of stuff for people to follow and love and contribute to and all. But Tiff, talk talk to me about the power camp, like how how how this has sort of affected you, you know, when when we started texting each other during the day.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I just think, you know, I didn't grow up in day camps. I went the Chicago has like day camps in the parks, right? And so sometimes you go if your parents let you, then they try to make you swim in deep water, and you're like, oh no, I quit, I'm out. Like it was, it's very much not an inner city thing. And so when I started, when we started our sports camp, we were really just looking to do more sports for kids. And so I always called myself the accidental camp director because I didn't start out to be like a day camp name to know. But I'm a I'm a nerd. And so the more I got into delivering the work for the students and kids that we were serving in sports, I realized, oh, this is a whole industry. Oh, you know, like day camp is the thing, and we can do it in the city, and there's certifications we can get and all those sorts of things. And so it really became like when I joined the camping community, American Camp Association, all those things. I'm like, oh, there's some real business structure behind this as well. And so I think it was really then, I think Tim had a women in camp conference. And I think that was my first real illumination that we weren't just playing with kids in the park, but that this was an industry and that there was a way to systematically impact the lives of kids in like really tangible ways. And so, A, giving honor to like day camp being a thing, but in terms of the power of camp, it really helped me realize that these kids weren't just doing a sport they love, but like we were able to impart character development skills, get them out in nature, have kids who, you know, might have been scared to go to the playground because they're shooting or gangs or whatever, like really get them around the city, beyond their block, enjoying life as a kid and normalizing day camp, number one, but we also partnered with some overnight camps. So we like get them to send their kids to overnight camp for one week as part of our camp culture. And so the power of that, I mean, kids run up to me all the time now. Some who I don't even recognize, that's embarrassing. But they just they can't recruit so much. They're just like, oh, Coach Tiffany, we miss your Coach Tiffany, this, you know, like this like the way that they experience and talk about what camp play did for them is is mind-blowing. And when I say the power of camp, it's also not just what it did for the kids, but for me, just being able to take that and say, this isn't just something that kids need, it's what adults need too. And so for many, especially African-American or black people who grew up without the camp experience, to be able to like have that really settle in my sales and like move forward with that as a way of life and to take those things to the corporate space and now back to teenagers, it just shows that the the ripple effect of what we do in camp is is really endless.

SPEAKER_00

I remember your we play program.

SPEAKER_05

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04

Right. And that was that seemed to me that it was also focused on moms, like busy moms. Who were so because you were single mom at that time and you were running around from this thing to that thing, and sort of you were sort of trying to get all these other moms to sort of recognize that you gotta do things for yourself as well, and you gotta play and you gotta have a good time, you know. Which I thought was nope.

SPEAKER_05

I think that is that's a uh episode. I think we had one on here before about just like burnout, right? And how even as camp professionals, right, our work looks so fun, we got all these kids, we live on lakes, you know, we're running around jumping, but you can actually burn out from it because there's still the managing of staff, they're still the, you know, managing of parents, there's still the managing of your own expectations and making time for yourself. So one of the things I realized, and I talked about this, I don't know if I talked about it in my TED talk, but I know it was the kind of like one of the things that that it was like um one of those moments where you realize I'm the play lady and I don't play. You know, like my camp is called purposeful play. I teach kids how to play well, you know, all day long. I teach kids the power of play and yet I'm burned out. How could that be? And so it was uh we had a we play, but we also had she plays. I think that's what you're talking about. So it was she plays to win. And really that's that was the pre-full corporate thing where it wasn't just me. And I wasn't a single mom yet, then I was, I was, I was still married, but I was highly considering divorced. Um and so I was running around like a crazy lady running this camp. It had all this publicity, all in the news, you know, managing my team, managing the kids, managing the parents, managing the husband. And I was just burned out. I'm like, we're giving these experiences to kids and we're not getting them ourselves. And it wasn't just camp people, but it was all of my peers. So I'm a CPA by trade. And when I looked around, it was my friends who had continued to kind of climb that corporate ladder across all industries. And so, yeah, it's it was it was pervasive, but we taught them how to play. And that is the power of camp.

SPEAKER_01

It's so incredible to hear about all the ways you kind of inserted that power of camp into different communities and groups of people too. And because sometimes, admittedly, like camp, people when people think of the word camp, they think of like a place, right? And it has to happen there or other models of what camp has been in the past. And I think the idea of like inserting element of camps in different ways is so important. And it and it just takes you kind of looking at that, it's amazing. Looking at that gym and looking around and saying, this is what this group needs right now. And in that power of camp that you can insert and and we need it too. I I really love what you're saying about like kind of practicing what you preach. I don't think as camp people we're very good at that. Like more and more I've been doing some things with smaller groups of people because it's like we promote these small team building things within our own camp communities, but do we do it for ourselves to really get that out? Not really. So it's really nice to think about all those things. The Daycamp podcast is brought to you by CRS, commercial recreation specialists, your go-to resource for the latest programming and recreation solutions to help your campers thrive. Check out the all-new water tag, where campers suit up in special vests and blast away with high-powered water launchers for the ultimate splash battle. Rev up the fun with new pump trucks, a modular, easy-to-install bike course that brings the need for speed to any camp setting. And when it's time to cool down, FLX Shea delivers stylish, innovative shade with maximum coverage and minimal impact on your site. CRS also offers prefabricated cabins, pavilions, and restroom buildings. Everything you need to create a better camper experience. For more info, visit CRS4Ref.com. That's CRSthenum4rec.com. CRS is serious about fun. You are a leader of your camp and a pillar in your community. When your customers put tremendous trust in you, Camp Minder's powerful management tool delivers the day-to-day task support that helps you make every moment memorable and every summer stellar. With 20 plus camp-specific tools in one, Camp Minder's user-friendly platform is backed by a full team of engineers who are constantly thinking of ways to help your camp stand the test of time. Visit them today at campminder.com.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, we're givers. And then we end up giving a lot and sucking out our our energy, you know? There's a couple things that you said. So when you were saying, you know, you didn't really go to a camp as a kid, but you went to the park and play and those kind of things, right? When we go to Washington, DC, which we're going in a couple of weeks to advocate for camping, we talk to all these staff people all the time. And very often they say the same thing. They go, Oh, I didn't really go to camp. And then they're like, What did you do in the summers? And they tell us something that basically was camp, right? What you did is camp is what most people do for camp, right? You know, not everybody gets that white picket fence camp and all the kind of thing. Most people don't get that. I just think that's interesting. And then also what you said about you being a nerd, which cracks me up because you're like one of the coolest people I know. And and you know, but I'm sure if someone saw Jordana, they'd say the same exact thing about her. But I know Jordana's a nerd, also, right? And I'm sort of a nerd too, right? And yet, but we have to put this public persona out there when we're doing our stick, right? That we're like cool and happy and amazing, and movie stars and all that kind of thing, right? So I just think that's really a funny thing. And that you basically, I mean, I saw what you were doing as you were transitioning into being an executive coach and and and running workshops for CEOs and crap like that. You were basically preaching camp to the masses. That's right, as just what you were doing, you know, and and you have this ability, which I've always loved, where you could just encapsulate things and and be able to frame things a certain way that most people can and say it with this sort of power, you know, this sort of like Obama is kind of power, where it's just like, yeah, that's absolutely the thing. And I I could see why you've become successful with that.

SPEAKER_00

So you're also good with putting things into formulas, you know, having organizing it into steps. And I know with your new project, you have a set procedure that you want to do. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, so you know what is wild about well, so much that you said, Andy, and yes, I think I'm gonna pop back to something Jordana said real quick first. So I think that it is far easier, and I've learned this as an executive coach as well. It's so much easier to say a thing, like there's nothing easier than saying what you're gonna do, nothing harder than actually doing it. So when we as camp people are delivering all these experiences, we have to be intentional about giving them to ourselves. If we don't, we will burn out, right? And so, you know, that has kind of been my marching orders like stop giving to others what you won't give to yourself, fill your cup first, put your oxygen mask on first. We hear those things all the time, but we really have to do them. Well, how do you do that? Put it in your calendar. Like whatever the next best thing is you're planning for your camp kids, put something like that in your calendar and then keep calendar integrity with yourself to do it, whether it's with yourself or with your team or what have you. Because that's the only way we're gonna get it done because camp is just like any other job. It doesn't stop pulling on you unless you said it. To your point, Andy, we are nerds and we are cool. That's the whole thing. Little things can can exist at one time. So we may not be the traditional idea of what they look at when they think of a nerd, but we're changing the face of what the nerd really is, right? We're running businesses, we're running teams, we're really you know, we're going to Washington to talk about the political side of this and to ensure that it spreads. So like we can be cool and nerds, don't play with us. We are both standing. So I am. I think it's the CPA in me that has me always thinking in like equations, right? So like this plus this equals this, or this minus, like, what do we put in? What do we take out? And so the framework is called pause, plan, play to win. And so it's really the pause is really around identity. So, like, who are you? Who do you want to be? What are your core values? You know, how do you ensure that you're voting with your values in every decision you make, not just like like vote, like when we vote politically, we're you're voting with our values. So, like when we're making a decision about how we want our life to look and feel, are we, you know, looking at that against the values that we say we have? I had my own life coach one time, and she's like, Oh, you know, I'm sure you have, and this by this time I had been certified as a leadership and life coach. So she's like, Oh, I'm sure you have core values and me, bougie. I'm like, of course I do. And then she's like, Well, do you consult them when you're making a decision? And I was like, Oh, oh. That's what we're supposed to do with the values, right? So the pause is really about understanding who you are. So I also like a serial entrepreneur in some ways, and every business across the nation has like mission, vision, values. So when I work with teams, whether it's camp or corporate or kids, it's like, what are your personal mission, vision, values? And so we have a workshop where we help people cement that for themselves. Because until you really have that for yourself, how can you truly be part of a team, right? Otherwise, you're just in the team for money or at the job for money. And so until you can see how you align with that, it's really not a thing. So that's kind of what we do in the pause. And the plan is different because most people think of a plan and you try to get to action, like, right? What do you do? But in our plan, we take things off. So oftentimes we, you know, like every business professional, every, you know, serious elite athlete, you know, we have a we have things to do. We have a to-do list. And so I say, well, who has a to-don't list or who has a quit list? And so the planning is where we take some things off because oftentimes we're loading on too much, things that we could delegate, things that we could eliminate, right? And and tactical things is what people typically think of. But this taking off is not only items or tasks off your to-do list, it's also like thoughts, behaviors, and beliefs that are tend to hold you back. So a lot of self-doubt, perfectionism, procrastination, criticism, like negative self-talk. Like, how can we take some of those things off? And so then it makes the real plan that we have for our lives and our goals so much easier to get to. And then play to win is really just realizing that this is a way of life, right? And so it's like, it's, it's how can you navigate change and challenge with more ease and recognizing that they're always gonna be there? Like we're gonna make this, we're gonna pause. Oh, we did it. We're gonna plan, yay! And then the play to win is like we're gonna have all those plans and something's gonna like knock us literally out of the square. And so, how can we build our resilience, our grit, our tenacity, and our deep why this matters to us enough that we're playing to win no matter what happens. We can just like, all right, you know, knuckle up and and hop back in that thing while giving yourself rest and grace to be able to keep going.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think it's perfect timing to remind everybody about this because I was just saying to Sam before, like after March, it's kind of like June already. Like things just go so fast for camp professionals, especially at this time of year, as we all know. And so I think it's really important as I stare at my million sticky notes on my own desk as we record this. There's a lot to do. And the idea of like, no, I can take a break, right? And I need to like look at all the things on my plate right now and really put myself first because, like Andy was saying, we are givers, and there's gonna be a lot of feelings that go with it. I really love the the point about it's not just things on the list. It's like, how are you feeling? And where is that going in your whole bucket of things? And so such good reminders, and and I'm really grateful that you're bringing it up. So thank you.

SPEAKER_05

I do this thing. I love it when I'm in like a very stuffy environment and there's all these like people in their suits and the HR people in the room and they're like monitoring my workshop. And so I just try to freak them out and I say, you know, the F-word is finally okay at work. And there's the people, I'm like, feelings. I'm like before the pandemic, you know, there was a work you and a home you, and you had to come in one certain way. And the truth is you were only ever one person. If you try to cut yourself in half, physically you die, right? You bleed to death. So we need to stop doing that and recognize that our feelings are just, you know, emotions, right? And emotions are not, are not, they're not in they're not instructions. They're information. So oftentimes we're like, we're feeling this. So, you know, we need we're Reacting to how we feel. We're feeling this. And it's not, it's not instructions, it's information to say, like, okay, I'm feeling burned out. So what do I need to fill my own cup so I can go back out here and truly be in service to my kids, to my parents, to my camp, you know? And so when we don't, we think that if we take time for ourselves or just to rejuvenate, that it'll be, you know, everything is gonna mess up. But the truth is, is the only way we regain the energy to be able to go back in there is by pouring into our own cups. And it doesn't have to be like a vacation. It could literally be, you know, 15 minutes a day, I'm gonna do this. And you never, you realize, and this is a self-thing, like how hard it is to force yourself to take care of yourself because we're so self-sacrificial. But when you do that, like everything else suffers instead of everything else winning.

SPEAKER_01

Totally. And it sounds like this, I I love the system and kind of the curriculum of it and the way that you framed it because I think it can apply. It sounds like you've been working with people of all different ages as well, and that it really sticks with them. Cause I think decision making also, even in our staff, is so hard like to make a decision, not just for the kids that are in their care that we put all this pressure on, but also like for themselves and for the kids. Sometimes I find with our staff, they're not taking great care of themselves because they're so focused on giving to the kids. And so it's really, I know we're gonna hit decision making really hard at pre-camp and throughout the summer, because I don't think that our young staff feel capable of making those decisions. And if we're talking about the feelings that go along with it, they're just not feeling confident in that. And so we need to flex that muscle and give them some of those ways to think about how to make decisions. And that's a really awesome framework for it.

SPEAKER_00

Your planning part, I love the the part about some don'ts, because our staff definitely don't know how to say no. If anybody asks them to go out at night, even if they're exhausted, they're gonna say yes. Um, so taking out things, I I love that because that's a higher level of thinking that not many people use.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, no, I think it's so true. I think that oh, there was something you said, Jordan, that I've just lost my train of thought on. Oh, you said they're they're not kind. Oh, I was gonna say success loves speed, right? And so like I there's I I say I want to find someone else to use as an example because I don't like this person, but um they're just a great example for it. So Elon Musk has his his main thing, the reason why he's been so successful as a CEO, one of the reasons is because he he doesn't see I can't, right? So he has none of the skills to do most of the things he's done. He just had a vision to do it. And so then he just would compartmentalize and find the people and the way to get it done. And so he he's a great example of like his decision making. He said the the time frame between his idea and decision making is like tight, right? And it's it's all about it's we think it's confidence, but it's really about self-trust. And it's not just trusting myself that this is the right decision, which is what tends to hold us back. It's that even if this isn't the right decision, as long as we're safe because we're in a camp world, even if this isn't the right decision, I trust myself enough to rebound from that. I trust myself enough to know that my, you know, my senior leadership supports me enough that in a mistake that I can justify with my with my thought process that I'll still be backed. So this is really around safety and not say belonging, but like safety, trust, and courageous communication are, I think, are the things that are holding people back from making decisions. And there's a psychological study that shows like overthinking is really lack of self-trust. It's not, it's because it's it's decision paralysis, because we're already projecting all the things that could go wrong. And if we instead use that same energy to think about all the reasons something could go right, like how much further will we be towards our goals?

SPEAKER_04

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SPEAKER_01

100%. And I mean, we're on a day camp podcast right now. Like the pace of day camp, speaking of speed, like everything happens so fast. And so I know I'm guilty of this. Like, do we give our it makes me wonder like, do we really give our staff time to sit in a decision and make make something? Right. Like, I I think we need to take a step back and look at all those processes to make sure that it's it's happening in a way that can be supportive of them so that they really understand that.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

All right, so I got a question for you. So let's say you get pulled into the daycamp space again, right? And you get hired to be an executive coach of someone that runs a daycamp. Where do you start with these folks? Sort of knowing what the profile is of course.

SPEAKER_05

So I literally use my my framework for everything. So we start with mission, vision, values, not of your camp, but of you, right? And I have a process. And it's, of course, it's fun. So it's a mad lib, which is so camp.

SPEAKER_02

And you should see it a corner people looking at all this money from mad libs.

SPEAKER_05

Right. So it's a mad lib, but that's how we figure out our mission. Vision, we cast the vision from there, and then values. We have like, it's so funny. Give me two seconds because they're of course they're on the but we have like all these, because I'm camp lady. I'm really just a camp lady, that's all. But we have these like cards where we help people figure out their core values, and we have a game that we play in order to help you sort them, and you feel all stressed because you're just like, what do you mean? So we just have five at the end. You have five, but there's hundreds that you choose from, and that's to exemplify, you know, a million different decisions. So again, it's decision-making fast. So we figure out mission, vision, values, and then we do like, where are you versus where do you want to be? Like, what does camp world feel like you for feel like for you right now? What do you want it to feel like? And oftentimes we don't even, and this is not just camp, this is everyone, but especially in camp, we don't even think about like the creme de la creme, because it's just like, let's just be practical, you know, let's just be practical. But we we look at where you are and what is the best case scenario, and then we unlock like what's in that messy middle, like what's holding us back from getting from here to there. And I think it's just been, it's been so hey, shameless plug, I'd love to do this for camp professionals because y'all are so much more fun than accountants. No shade to the accounts. But it's just been, it's unlocked. So just imagine if it's unlocked like so much measurable and meaningful growth for accountants and insurance actuaries, like I can't imagine what it would do for camp folks because even though we can tend to be stressed out, we are creative and imaginative and willing to try, you know, a different thing. And so, yeah, I think that's where we start.

SPEAKER_04

I think a lot of camps, especially when people find themselves like joining a camp, right? Is that they have these systems and they have this organization and they have everything all set up. And and you sort of just jump into it, you know, and you tweak a little, tweak a little, tweak a little, but you don't really start at the beginning, you know, to think about, you know, how what you can put into it, what's your special thing, you know, and and of course, going back to the the vision and mission of the whole thing and aligning everything to that as well. So yeah, I think it's great. I think there's a place for you, Tiff. You should fill out a you know, a thing to speak at ACA National or Tri-State. Come out to Jersey to Tri-State, baby. Listen, absolutely use her out here.

SPEAKER_00

I'm actually trying to get her to a spring conference called the Great Lakes Day Camp Forum next spring and see if she could be uh that's nice.

SPEAKER_04

Great Lakes is nice. Come out to Tri-State, 4,000 people. Okay. You can room with you can room with the lady over here, the redheader. You can room with it.

SPEAKER_05

Because no, literally, I would I would love it. And I think one thing I just want to be clear like your personal mission and vision is different than your camps, right? Even when you own the camp. Like, yeah, when you work at one, you kind of know that. But when you own it, it's still different, right? Like, we don't do this work just because of whatever the mission or vision of our camp is. I do this work because I was a kid who was I went to 12 schools in 12 years, not a different school every year, but sometimes two or three in one year military brat, right? I was popped around after fourth grade. I was just all over the place. I had to make friends really quickly, right? And or understand that I was gonna be okay regardless. And also, you know, I I I don't this this is like a these are my confessions podcast. Now I ran home when I was 13 because I was just like, this this ain't right.

SPEAKER_04

This dude didn't in your tent. This should have been in your TED talk.

SPEAKER_05

This should be a girl. I ran away from home and not even by I lived in Virginia. We were in Alabama. I there there was no TSA, right? I got on a no, okay. I wasn't 13. I was either 14 or 15. It was my sophomore year. And I took a plane from Alabama to Chicago. Oh my gosh. Crazy lady. And by the time I poor mom, I'm sorry, mom. The plane, there were police waiting for me.

SPEAKER_04

Like, did you pay in cash at the airport?

SPEAKER_05

What's so wild is I had a job at Lady Foot Locker. Like, how's a 14-year-old worked there? I had a I had a uh work permit, whatever. These were this was the 90s, things were different.

SPEAKER_04

It's also Alabama.

SPEAKER_05

They don't have travel agency in the mall. I thought people plan to get my mama should everybody. We should be rich right now. But anyway, I just wanted to go home. So my mission is really to help people, you know, design lives that they love, right? How can you, when it works, succeed at home and design a life you absolutely love? Like, and that sounds so altruistic. Nobody's paying you to do that though, right? So it's wrapped in like retention and engagement, it's wrapped in performance on the court, it's wrapped in, you know, all these blankets that other people want me to wrap them in. But at the core, because I was so hungry to design a life I loved at such a young age. And my mom was great. I mean, she listened to me, but she wasn't the only person in my home. So therefore, it was just like, I just knew that there had to be more for me than this. And I just think that when when kids especially get to see that at a young age, it's transformational. But even as adults, when we have not taken the time, one of you all said something about do we really give our staff enough time to just sit and think? Like, as adults, we don't take enough time to just strategically think about what we actually want our lives to look and feel like because life has hardened us so much that we think like these are the things we have to do. And really, this last what six, seven years that I've been out of the camp world have really helps me to know you don't, you know, and and that it can work. And so the people who have a system that there is a system to create that change.

SPEAKER_01

So well, I think it's time for a comeback to the camp world tip because I I so I run a young and emerging, we call it young-ish, because some of us are aging out of this young category, but the youngish and emerging camp pros in Ontario. And I see a lot of young incoming directors and people that are working full-time in camp. The turnover has been crazy. Like people aren't the trend I'm seeing is that people are not staying in these roles, these full-time roles for very long at all. And I feel like in the camp industry, it is, it's like stereotypical that everyone just says, Well, I love my job. And I think that most people believe that 100%. But I also think there are times where like we're not loving it as much. And that's because there is that disconnect between like the work that they're doing and the mission, vision values of themselves, which nobody talks about. Like this is the first time I've really heard somebody say, What are your mission, vision values, not of your camp or organization? Because you have to think of that alignment. Because if that's not aligned and you're not getting what you want out of your experience as a camp professional, you're gonna burn out even easier, right? And that's what it's making me think of. And I I we start these types of groups so people feel like they're not alone. But I think that coaching is really important because people aren't alone in that feeling. That's a thing that happens. They just need some help in kind of getting through it, right?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. And that's why I said the last part is the courageous conversations, because we'd rather leave than to talk about how we feel. And not that we want, you know, all about this. Is not a call to every person who works at every camp to be like, hey, here's how I feel. And no, we're not condoning that picture, right? But it is more so introspective. Because what I found, and I mean, literally, if people go and look at my LinkedIn, because I always ask people for feedback on how I've worked with them. There's one particular that stands out for me. Her name was Tina. I don't remember her last name, but she was Hub International. But if you look through my recommendations on LinkedIn, she says, like, Tiffany saved our team. And I'm always taken aback by stuff like that. But those people, like they, they hated each other. They didn't want to go to work. They didn't, you know, they were like, they wanted to, they liked the work that they were doing, but they didn't like their team dynamics were so bad. And they they said this kind of publicly at this point because it was a turnaround for them. That when we came in and we started to help them understand their personal mission, vision values and the team's mission, vision values, finding that sticky point in between was the thing that helped them stick. And they they just started working like it was just like it was like magic. And so I think that we know, like if we can help, again, professionals who are doing jobs that, you know, predominantly we do in the corporate world, I find that most people do their job just to pay their bills, right? But but in camp, where you actually do have people who are already value aligned or else you wouldn't work with kids, then when you can pull out your mission, vision, values and that of the the camp, you find that 2%, it doesn't have to be 100%. It's like, what's a 2% that we can agree on? And that gives you kind of the energy to just keep going. And I it has it has helped retention, it has helped engagement, it's it has helped attracting new talent, it has helped just people to feel happier at work. And I think that that really elongates the amount of time that people are there. And and in some instances, it superseded the budget because oftentimes people are like, well, they're just leaving for money. But the truth is, like, we've trained people up so good that like we train them so well that they could leave and we treat them so good that they don't want to leave. So even when there's been more money on the table, people have still stayed. So that's incredible.

SPEAKER_01

And well, and that's like camp, right? It's the buy-in because oftentimes it's not the money that's really keeping them there, right? And so you you see people light up, you want to win them over. I've seen that transition too. Like it used to be they have to sell themselves to us to get a job, but I actually find now it's the reverse. Like we have to sell camp to our incoming staff to make sure that they're bought into what we're all about and that they can find that sticky point between them and us to say, yeah, this is the place I want to work.

SPEAKER_04

And it should be easy, Jordana, because we're selling this amazing product, like Tiff's saying, you know, like we're not saying, you know, you need to do bankruptcy at an accounting firm in a cubicle over there, or actually from your kitchen table, which is most of these jobs now, right? Like, you know, you're gonna do impactful work that's gonna change the future. Like it's really sort of an easy sell to these young, optimistic people, you know, that want to change the world or young teachers who are doing it for the same reasons. So yeah, I think we have a huge advantage in the day camps space.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. And I think even if you want to ultimately be an accountant or like, so one of my coaches from my camp is a CPA now and he runs a firm, but his firm services pr predominantly professional athletes. So he was able to find the mix between what Camp Play taught him and the profession that he actually wanted to do. So even if you don't want to be a camp professional for the rest of your life, cool. You can still gain skills at camp that you can almost gain nowhere else. And because it's almost often like a family setting, you also are learning to be able to have those courageous conversations, you know, be open to new ideas. Like we're as camp directors, we if you come with ideas, oh, camp counselor of the week. You know what I mean? Like you don't want to just be told something. So I think it's it's just an open playing ground for that, for that work.

SPEAKER_04

And I think I think that was great, Tiff. Yeah, I think I think we can give people some resources again to follow up on the specifics because a lot of this this is a lot of information that was coming out really fast at you. And it was really great. So we'll provide that in the show notes. But I want to thank you, Tiff, for coming back.

SPEAKER_05

I appreciate y'all.

SPEAKER_04

We missed you. And people are gonna people are gonna like hearing your voice. Well, I want to also thank Go Camp Pro Team, Travis and Matt, and editor Rachel, Camp Minder, Camptivities, and commercial recreation specialist for allowing us to bring this podcast to you. Check out our show notes from this and other episodes of Daycamp Podcast.com, as well as contact for our guests and our hosts. So thanks for listening. Make yourself a better daycamp pro.

SPEAKER_03

We'll be back in a couple of weeks with another episode of the Daycamp Podcast The Daycamp Podcast is brought to you by GoCamp Pro and the Go Camp Pro Podcast Network. Find a podcast for camp professionals of every age and stage at gocamp.pro slash podcast. Thanks for listening, friends. Hey Camp Ros, we love that our industry is built on sharing. In order to foster that spirit, we hope that whenever you share an idea that you learn from the Camp Hacker Podcast, conference, summer camp professionals group, or wherever else, that you're quick to give credit where credit is due. That way, we can all encourage more campros to share the tips and tricks that will make camp better.